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it's life actually happy for me to start Or do you want to? Yeah. So you can get started, Olivia. All right, so welcome, everybody to another W PMN welcomes event. And thank you so much for taking time out of your evening to join us with this incredibly exciting talk on working in public health, particularly from these lovely women who have joined me here. So it's a specialty that I know for me. I haven't really come across that often specifically during, um, careers, affairs and panels during med school, and and otherwise, you know you're out and about. So really, this is something that's not not really spoken about that much. So I'm really excited to invite Doctor Rachel Far and then who's a public health registrar and she came through the medical route and then also Katie, and they have their own unique stories to share with us. So I'm gonna hand over without further ado to Rachel. But just before I before I do quickly, just to remind everybody would be really, really great. If you could look out at the end of the talk for a feedback link, it would be really grateful for any feedback that you could give us and to our speaker's thank you. Over to you, Rachel. Great. Thanks, Olivia. Thank you very much for inviting us to talk this evening. So I'm just gonna share my screen with me one second, and hopefully you guys are seeing the slides now. But someone yelled at me if you're not, um, so Yeah, well, welcome to our talk this evening about working in public health. Um, so if we kicked off with some introductions, my name's Rachel. Um, And as Olivia said, my background before becoming a public health registrar was medical. So I went to the University of Manchester, um, and studied there. It went back down to South London for my foundation years, did an F three in medical education and then was lucky enough to get my spot in the public health training scheme here in the Northwest. So I'm currently s t two. So a second year specialty trainee in public health, and I'm working at Rockdale borough counsel at the moment, um, and outside of medicine or public health, even, um, I, um, the recruitment lead trustee for W p m n, which is partly why I'm here to talk to you guys today as well, and I'm really pleased to be joined by my colleagues, Katie and and Fun K. Because it's probably worth staying at the top. For anyone who doesn't know. Public health is a unique specialty, a unique medical speciality, in that it's the only one that is open for people from backgrounds other than medicine. So public health backgrounds, um, to apply to become a public health registrar and a consultant as well. Um, so if I hand over to K t and then funky to share their introductions to Hi, I'm Katie, I've got a very different background to Rachel. So whilst I was the sixth form college, I started off my kind of health career by becoming a day and the receptionist as a part time job. And that led to after kind of six for an undergrad working in the hospital and working my way up from kind of the lowest branded. You can be banned through band up until trying to the training scheme. I've had a few different jobs within public health and worked on a few different areas. I've worked in local authorities in the old primary care trusts and also at the Great Health and Social Care Partnership. So a slightly different routes, but then also funky has got another different route, which she'll speak about now. Okay. Hi, everyone. So my name's funky, and I'm also an ST T register and based at Stockport. So my background, um so my testicles and pharmaceutical science and, um, I used to work in the pharmaceutical industry during drug formulation and chemical analysis for quite a while. And then I took a detour, went and did a masters in public health and then ended up working for nice. And I was there right up until when I applied for the scheme, and I was lucky to get a place in the scheme. So, as you can see, very well have very different stories of getting onto the scheme. Great. So as you can probably start to appreciate, there's potentially a really broad and diverse audience who could be watching this talk this evening or watching it later when it goes on to our YouTube channel. Um, so we're going to try and give you a talk that gives you a bit of an insight for people who might have different things. They want to get out of the talk. So we're going to start by giving a little bit of an overview about what public health actually is. If probably if you're a medic like me, and you've had no experience of it in medical school or in your foundation program, and you want to find out what we actually do, Um, and then we're going to talk a bit about our experience as public health registrars. So what the training scheme looks like and what the Data Day job involves, Um, we're going to focus on the register, our experience because one of our colleagues, Doctor Paula Whitaker, who is a public health consultant and a senior lecturer at the University of Manchester, she's kindly working on a video that we'll be looking at the consultant experience in public health and kind of careers. You can go to go into within public health as a consultant, so that will be coming a bit later. Um, and then, towards the end of the talk, we're going to tell you about how you can apply to become a public health registrar like us, um, and give you some of our tips of advice for getting through that process, and there will be lots of time for questions at the end. So please send them in as we're going through, Um, and we'll take those at the end. As I said. Okay, So having said that, there could be a lot of different people watching. We thought it would just be useful to try and get a sense of who's with us this evening so we can tailor the talk a little bit to you guys. So we're going to use, like, a couple of times at the start of this talk. So if you could use your phone or a tab on your laptop to scan the QR code or typing slider dot com and the number on the slide and just give us a sense of why you're here to listen to the talk today, um, which of those sentences kind of aligns with with what you're thinking? So hopefully that should be active. Yeah. Okay. First one coming in. So we'll just give you about 2030 seconds to get on to slide down to submit your answer. Okay. Great. So lots of people who are interested in the career, so you know a bit about public health already. So maybe most interested in the advice about applying and a few people, Um, also the other way around, isn't it? So a few people who definitely want to apply and lots of people who just want to know a bit more about public health to Korea. So we're going to start by just outlining what public health is in case there's anyone watching now or later who's not so sure. So keeping that slide open, Um, can you share with us some of the words that come to mind when you think about public health? So maybe some of the buzz words you're aware of, or themes that you are going to come to mind when you think about public health or issues or problems that you think public health is there to tackle, and there's no right or wrong answer. Great. So we've got a few words coming through already population health. So we're thinking about health and well being at a population level rather than with individual patients. Prevention is definitely one of the the kind of core pillars of public health, definitely so thinking about health promotion promotions being another kind of core pillar. There's talk about epidemiology, one of the core science skills outbreak response, infectious diseases. So thinking about health protection there, which is another one of the pillars of public health. Yet stats. So thinking about evidence based practice, um, education. They're providing education to the public, some healthy economics coming in as well, trying to keep up with your public health campaigns that ties into education as well, doesn't it? And then healthcare inequalities, which absolutely inequalities not just in healthcare but health more broadly and well, being more broadly, that definitely cuts through every kind of public health piece of work that we might be doing Great. Thanks, guys. So I think you've You've touched on really lots of the really, uh, core things to think about when we're talking about public health there. So this quote or definition at the at the top of the slide is kind of the quote that gets abandoned around. Most commonly, I think when you ask people for a definition of what is public health, and I just highlighted a few of the core words I saw them when I was reading these quotes. So as you you guys picked up on public health is definitely both a science and art. So there's a lot of emphasis on epidemiology, so that ability to describe and analyze the distribution of disease and the determinants of health and disease within a population, Um, and thinking about economics, thinking about being able to critically evaluate and appraise, um, and interrogate the evidence base that we're making our decisions on. But that all of that very sci, the evidence based practice is complimented and needs to be balanced with the skills of being able to communicate potentially quite complex or nuanced decisions to the public and to the media and other professionals, and an ability to kind of influence decision makers and to negotiate to bring about the changes, um, two policy or practice that you think are necessary based on the evidence. So we've talked about those those three pillars of promotion, protection and prevention, which, okay, we'll go on to elaborate on shortly, and I've highlighted that idea of health and wellbeing. So, um, in public health were really thinking about that broad definition of health that the World Health Organization has outlined before the idea of health being a state of complete physical, mental and social wellbeing and not just the absence of disease. So we're thinking very holistically about the idea of health for our populations and the idea of through the organized efforts of society. There's definitely a lot of, um, politics that comes along with public health, Uh, and collaborating between organizations and groups, which again will come on to talk about a little bit in this talk. And then the faculty of public Health has kind of added to that definition again, picking up on those ideas of promotion and protection and health and wellbeing. Um, the idea that we're working at a population level is one of you, uh, suggested in the slider before, um, and they're kind of highlighting that it's a really broad agenda public health, covering everything from tobacco to transport, Children's health to climate change, violence, two viruses, basically anything which could impact on people's health and well being directly or indirectly. So I think for me coming from a medical background, some of those things are not things that we would normally consider part of our day to day work. Things like transport. Maybe climate change violence to some extent are not things that we're doing day today. But in public health, almost everything can fall under the public health umbrella. Essentially. Okay. And then just our last slide. Oh, what are some of the kind of public health related issues that you're aware of or stories that you've heard of in the news in recent weeks? Or maybe you've come across at work. Cave is a big one. Yeah, and is still a big topic of conversation, I think for everyone working in public health at the moment, um, thinking ahead to the winter, which were basically starting. Um, And in terms of coated recovery, flu season is also upon us. So another topical issue, cost of living crisis is a massive public health crisis. An issue that we're doing lots of work on at the moment and will be for some time, I imagine. Um, yes, there is some more infectious disease is coming in there. Mumps, monkeypox, very topical at the moment. And the new immunization campaign going on around that which ties in with the idea of vaccination. Great. Give you a few more seconds because I can see there's a couple more people typing heating for older adults, absolutely, and not even necessarily older adults. There are lots of people who will fall into fuel poverty for the first time this winter because of the cost of living crisis. So you might have heard about warm banks, um, or warm spaces in the media as places that people can go to keep warm. What else have you got there? Smoking? Definitely always a big public health issue. Food and nutrition. Again, we'll link to the cost of living crisis in terms of what people are able to afford to buy the road safety. Definitely. So you guys have suggested lots of really, really interesting things there, and you're I think you're picking up some of those pillars. So we're talking about health protection issues there in terms of some of the infectious diseases, um, Covina Monkey Pox. You might also think about things like climate change or flooding or environmental risks to health, um, in the news as well. And then in terms of health promotion, so that cost of living crisis is a really big one. Fuel poverty. What else do we have? Food, nutrition linking to the idea of obesity. Fracking could be a public health issue as well. Absolutely um, smoking. So you might have seen the The Con Review fairly recently had suggested raising the age of sale for smoking so that year by year, so that eventually nobody would be able to smoke. It would be illegal for everybody to smoke and then healthcare. Public health. I'm not sure we've touched on that as much, but there are always things in the news about funding for the NHS. We recently got a new, um, the integrated care systems coming into play, thinking about screening immunizations. A vaccination would fall under health care, public health. So and things about you know whether to introduce lung cancer screening in the UK, for example, is an example of health care, public health. Great. Okay, so I guess essentially, the point I'm making is practically anything could be public health related because there are so many things that influence our health and wellbeing, which I think Katy is going to come on to talk about now. So why do we do public health? Um, everybody has their own reasons coming into this might be really passionate about preventing kind of the spread of infectious disease. You might really want to get people to stop smoking. You know, you might want to increase screening in an area that particularly interested in, but overall we look at health inequalities and they cut across every part of public health and decide that you see up at the moment. I think it's one of the really, really good ways to demonstrate this. So we have the London Underground map, and we also have to manage the Metrolink map. And if you look at it, you can see that all the ages change and that's from stop to stop. Some of these changes are quite drastic. Um, I'm going to really show myself up here. I can't see see the Metrolink one. But there's one where it's Rockdale, and I think it's against Milne raw. And the gap is, I think it's over 10 years, and that's just showing the difference between a deprived area and an affluent area that's just a few steps away on the tramp, where people's lives really different. So essentially people's postcode, where the bone where they grew up has a real influence on their life and it can you know very much predict what will happen in our lives, predict our health outcomes, predict our educational outcomes, all sorts of things. These will affect our health. And there's just almost kind of an unfairness to that that when people are born, the life can be determined in the health outcomes are so within public health. We almost try to reset that fairness. Now that isn't easy to do, and you can't pick your fingers and do it. But there's lots of different things that we can do to try and make the world more equitable place of people and for their health outcomes. So a public health approach. If you do go into a career in public health, if you've never seen this picture before, it will just become your kind of little best friend that lives in your brain that you're always thinking about. When you're talking about public health, lots of things contribute to our health. And then more and more as the years have gone on my career in public health. So I started as an affordable project worker 2009 working in the NHS in public health, trying to help people in fuel poverty. I can never predict the state would be in now with things like fuel, poverty, and actually that would be a lot worse now than it was then when I was just working on it. But when I first started in the team, there was a lot of people working on the normal things that people think of a public health, like smoking, obesity, physical activity. And then this new thing came in because we started to look at the wider determinants of health. We started to look at how housing people's finance people's education, then lead on to how they're behavioral risks are determined. So we call that the causes of the cause is, And if you work in public health, one of the most important things that you will do in your everyday job is Just think about those complexities. Think about how the individual, then also the system and the life around them, influences their health and then the population health a whole, and how you can actually act to kind of try and do your best to change that and make it better for people and then also in public health. We talk about what's called upstream and downstream, so if you think about there's a river, it's flowing and people fell in and you're trying to catch them. You're trying to catch them, bring them out the river and save them at the best possible time. Know the sooner you do that, the better. And that's what we call upstream public health. So that's things like when we had the indoor smoking ban and that would be something like, We go back to our kind of fuel poverty. Example. Looking at how we can get kind of system wide nationwide, things in place to actually get us to prevent people's called Being Home is becoming called prevent them being in those circumstance that make the health worse. And then we get to the downstream. So we've left people in the river for quite a while, but we still caught them. But that's what was making things like warm banks. Things like giving people three electric blankets, kind of community care, smoking cessation and public health has those different stages where we can almost have the very preventative stuff that we can do, you know, at a very kind of strategic level and use laws and mandates. And then we've got the stuff that your local teams will do, which are based on local authorities, which is looking at how we kind of help people when they've kind of already got to a point where they're being impacted by these issues. But we can still make a difference. Okay, Right. So, um, this is me. Uh, yeah. So, um, as ratio was talking about earlier, we were talking about the main domains of public health. The slide shows, um, the three main ones that we look at, which is health promotion, health protection, healthcare, public health. Um, as you can see from the diagram, they're all interrelated, But they're all also put into this bigger box of health inequalities. So health inequalities are the avoidable, um, issues that lead to differences in the health of people and populations that we see. I should mention that most of the local public health, um, is work is mostly done in the local authorities. So this was since it was transferred, um, under the health and Social Care Act in 2012, um, to local authorities. And they started, um, it was officially done in April 2013. So we're kind of like coming up to the 10 year anniversary. So I guess maybe it's a good time to kind of evaluate to see if it was a good thing for moving it from, you know, the NHS on, um, into the public, the local authorities effectively but going back to help from the three domains. So if we talk about health promotion, health promotion on the national level, um, there's a responsibility for it, um, from your head and I'll give you a definition from the World Health Organization on the health promotion. So it says it's the process of enabling people to increase control over and to improve their health. What it's trying to do is move beyond the focus on the individual behaviors. But looking towards a wider range of social and environmental interventions, the next one on the slide is health protection, and in the UK, the national body responsible for it is aqsa. What they're trying to do is ensure the protection of individuals, groups and populations to prevent and mitigate against the impact of infectious disease, environmental, chemical and radiological threats so effectively they're looking at environmental health, communicable disease control and emergency planning. And then the final domain of public health that we're looking at is healthcare, public health, and the national body for that is NHS England. Um, they're concerned, as we all know, with maximizing the population benefits of healthcare while meeting the needs of individuals and groups. And they do this by prioritizing available resources, preventing disease, improving outcomes through the design and evaluation of effective, efficient and accessible healthcare. As I mentioned before, overarching, all of this is held inequalities. And what we're trying to do in public health is to try and reduce the effect as much as possible of health inequalities to ensure that you get overall a better outcome for most populations that you're working with. So I'll go on to the next slide, which is me telling you about life as a public health registrar. So hopefully this should be a little bit interesting. I'm gonna win it here. Um, so the diagram here is a bit not worth centric, so but if you look at it, it's it's generic enough so that it's applicable to all the training programs across the United Kingdom. So we start at the beginning, which is where it says assessment. And basically we'll go through an assessment process and get into the scheme. And as you can see from the top of the screen, it could have been clinical from local authority, academic or anywhere. So effectively coming into the scheme is a melting port. Everyone has something different and unique that they're bringing to the scheme. But anyway, we go on and we've made it onto the scheme and we get to be called an ST one registrar. So part of your first year is you working on your masters in public health and also spending a day, um, at the local authority where you placed typically your place that that local authority for two years. So that would be your ST one and s t two years. But I'll talk a little bit more about that afterwards. So you're usually doing four days at the university. In this case, it's the University of Liverpool. And um, hopefully you do really well. You pass your master's and you over the time you you probably will do, um, an appraisal process. RCP. I imagine you're more familiar with it than non medics. and typically you put in your competencies on the system we use, which is the portfolio, and you get appraised at the end of the year to go into the next year. So all that has gone well and you ended up in ST to this year. You're concerned with working more at your local authorities. So you typically you'll spend the majority of your time unless you have other arrangements at the local authority where you're replacing the first year. And you will now be concerned with doing your, um, what is called a diplomat exam now. But on the diagram used to be called apart a professional exam. People still in to use the word so I don't mind at all. Um, hopefully once you've passed that one and you've done all the competencies, um, on your placement in the second year, you again go through a ercp the really lovely appraisal process, and you end up in ST three. So the highlights of ST 33 months health protection, placement at Aqsa. So where you're working on a communicable disease control? Um, um, and the rest of the year, you, um you will be on another placement. Um, depending on what you've applied for what you've been successful in getting the other part of the S A three year is where you do your, um, the second exam, which is your membership exam or used to be called the part. The professional exam. Uh, while the part a exam, I use those words interchangeably. So don't mind me that while the diplomat exam is, um, more of a theoretical exam, the part of the exam is more of a practical exam. So you cross all those huddles and then you're on onto the S t four and ST five years. Most of those will be spent on you going on different placements. And basically, this is you're trying to find out what kind of public health consultants do I want to be? Eventually? Where do I want to end up after the training scheme? While you're doing this obviously is important to check off your competencies as you go along. So you want to make sure the placement you go to enable you to do that. But it is also one of the best times to be able to try out different placements. See where you fit in and see what you eventually want to do at the end of the program. Typically, they would say at your last placement. So around about 55 year is you should try and aim to do the placement where you think you want to end up as a public health consultant, so so that you get opportunities to maybe act up as a consultant. And obviously that would do you a lot of benefit when you come to apply for the role of a consultant, because effectively, you have been doing it for a year or a bit. So that's the map so far. Hopefully, we'll go into a bit more detail on the other. The rest of the talk about some parts of this as well. But it was just a quick run through, so on to the next one. So here are some examples of placements that are available again. This is a bit not West centric. So the examples of black pool Council transport for Greater Manchester um, Liverpool School of Tropical Medicine, but also in here you'll see some, um, national placement, which are called national treasures, so anyone across the country can apply to them. So places like aqsa or head and nice. Um, so moving on to the next slide. So this is talking about basically what does life as an ST one look like in the first week? Uh, you know, just look at a week. Um, a typical week as an ST one. As I said earlier, you would usually spend one day in local authority and then you will spend four days at university. Obviously, in this case, we're looking at the University of Liverpool, which those two days of teaching and then you do two days of self study, which is engaging with the rest of the material for the masters and doing assessments. Um, to complete the NPH, you would have had to do all all the things listed on the slide. Um, in my case, I because I already had a previous masters, and I I thought it might be beneficial to do a couple of modules instead of doing the entire master's. I picked a couple of masters, a couple of modules to do over the year and then do the entire thing. However, I'll hand over to K. T and Rachel to talk about what they did because they did something slightly different in. So a lot of people do come into it if they're coming through the public health route rather than the medical route already having a masters. And a lot of people say, Well, what happens if you already have a masters so fun? Case just told you one option and I'll tell you the other because I also already came into this with the public health masters. Um, they have a chat with you at the beginning and they let you choose. And they're like, You decide for yourself. So knowing the type of learner that I am and knowing the type of professional I am and how kind of very much benefit from that networking elements as well, I decided to take the Masters again so effectively at the at the end of this I'll have two masters because I'm still completing my dissertation at the moment. One will be an M S. C in public health, and what would be an mph Masters in public health? My reasons for doing that, where I'm not sure about around the rest of the country. But in Liverpool, particularly the master's is very set up for the diplomatic exam that you do in the second year. So I've done my other masters a little while ago. So I wanted that refreshed so that I had it fresh in my mind when I started to kind of study for the exam. My other reason was, is I kind of wanted to use it as an opportunity to get to know my cohorts a little bit better as well, because I'm the type of person that really benefit from those two days in the lessons, with people getting to know them, bouncing ideas of them because that's kind of learn. And that's kind of the way I operate with an organization because I worked in local authorities for quite some time. Um, it's kind of a way I've developed to kind of get things done. You know, I don't believe in reinventing the wheel. I believe in sharing ideas. I wanted to really build up some of those relationships, so I did all the modules that you can see on the screen, and then I'm just still completing the dissertation. At the moment, we'll hand over to Rachel, who has a different story Yeah. So I came into public health from the medical background, so I hadn't done a masters in public health. And just to reassure you, you don't need a masters in public health before you joined the scheme. There is no expectation that you would have one, and you don't get any points in the application process for having a master's or anything like that. You may well have knowledge from having done it. That will be useful. But getting the box take to say you have a masters doesn't make a difference to the application process. And actually, you know, you're in a really fortunate position as an ST one in public health, because you they pay the cost of your masters so they pay the 9000 odd pounds tuition fees for you, and you're being paid a salary to study four days a week. So it's It's a huge opportunity and and really attractive thing about joining the specialty. Um, and for me, coming from the medical background, I definitely had a bit of an imposter syndrome about, um, you know, I had very little if any practical public health experience before joining the scheme. I haven't done a taste a week in in medical school or during foundation years. It was quite late on in F two that I realized public health was the right specialty for me. Um, and at that point Cove, it was, you know, at its worst stage and the idea of trying to get work experience with a group of people who were, you know, snowed under with work, just it wasn't gonna happen. So as a side note, you can get into public health training without having had a lot of hands on public health experience or shadowing experience. Um, but for me, the masters was really helpful in kind of laying some of that impostor syndrome and helping me to feel like I do have some knowledge in this area that I can contribute when I'm working in local authority. Um, and as Katie said, it's It's been a really lovely opportunity to get to know all the other trainees and the cohort because you're based at different local authorities. It could feel a little bit isolating, potentially compared to being in a ward environment. But having that time together really helps you to get to know each other um, and kind of bond. And I would just point out, I think, coming again from a medical background, that idea of being on a work placement one day a week and studying for four days a week, kind of sounds a bit magical, Um, and so different to the service provision. Kind of role. Um, you do have to do some work in your evenings and weekends. It's not completely Monday to Friday 9 to 5. So, um, I wouldn't jump ship to public health just because you're looking for a 9 to 5 job. But it is definitely easier to kind of maintain that work life balance as well. Come on to talk about later. So coming into ST to where we are now being based in local authority all the time and just to stay local authority means councils. Essentially, if anyone's not familiar with that terminology, um, so in the public health team within the council, um, so we just put a few examples of pieces of work that we are currently doing at the moment because I think it can be hard to understand what the day to day work looks like. If you haven't experienced it. So, for example, in Rockdale, one of the big pieces of work that I'm doing at the moment is kind of reviewing the whole smoking cessation tobacco control plan for Rockdale. So I'm looking at national guidelines and guidance and recommendations from things like the Con Review from Nice Guidance. Looking at the regional strategy so greater Manchester has making smoking history strategy. So, looking at the structure and the recommendations in there and then at a local level, I've been speaking to all the stakeholders who are involved in a smoking cessation and tobacco control. Um, so that's things like your stop smoking services, but also much broader than that thinking about schools and Youth Services and fire services and leisure centers, Um, and all sorts of other partners across Rockdale. And we're having a workshop event next month where I'll kind of present some of the data and research that I've done. And we'll work as a group to figure out what we think the priorities are for helping Rockdale to move towards smoke free status in 2030. Um, and then I'll write a strategy based on on those priorities and that evidence. Um, they're So that's kind of one of those big pieces of work. And another thing that I'm doing is starting a project kind of working with individual GP surgeries across Barksdale to help them to increase their uptake of long acting reversible contraception. Um, so working with them to identify what are some of the barriers and challenges to practice is being able to provide that service for the patients. Um, and how can we support that process and make that easier? Um, either for individual practices to start providing Lark or for us to commission other services to pick up the slack and provide that service instead. So that's an example of some health promotion and kind of healthcare public health work that I'm doing, um, at a local level, Katie. Then if you want to talk about your health, needs assessment. So I'm currently in very council. Yeah, apologies. Keep saying L. A. That's one thing you have about a bit of a public health is keep using our little terminology and not remembering that not everybody uses it. So I'm doing health needs assessment on military veterans Very. Council has commitments to how they work with military veterans and they wanted me to look at. That's kind of what the needs are of those individuals. So we know as a group that some veterans have particular health needs. Some of the more obvious ones that people tend to think about are kind of the substance misuse area. Some people may think about homelessness when they think of issues that military veterans come across because homelessness is a public health issue and it's about looking at those and seeing if they are health issues, that population seeing if that is the case, even if it is everywhere else National If that's the case for memory and Berries Population, um, So what we've ended up doing is doing the literature review, which is where you kind of look at all the literature within a certain timeframe. So luckily for me, somebody did one in 2013. So I've looked at all the literature about military veteran health in the UK from 2013. Up until now, um, you end up filtering out a lot of things that, um necessarily that relevance what you're doing. But then, looking at the themes that are coming across, so one thing I'm coming across at the moment is seems to be more research in female military veterans than it was previously. Um, so I start to pick up other themes out of that, and then I'll put them forward in the paper and we can look at what's coming out nationally again is actually what's happening locally by speaking to the military veterans. So we've already had one focus group where I was really fortunate enough to speak to a group of individuals who we're very frank, very honest and very open about their experiences. And that's what you need. When you're doing this piece of work, you need to get a group of people together. The can trust you and that you have a really open chat with about what the needs are and that you're not shying away when they're telling you something is going wrong. So that's a really important part of that piece of work is when they're telling us something is going wrong. We have that conversation. We see how we can help, and we'll see how that differs for that population different to the general population as well. And with military veterans as well. It's about looking at the different types of veterans because every age group is different and the different ranks of the military, the different parts of the military, it has different effects on the health needs. So it's about going within the population to the sub populations, looking at their health needs and how they can help those people. So they're not disproportionately affected because of the service that they had. And then afterwards, we will end up making some recommendations to the organization about how the system so that will be all the healthcare system. And there is some of your local authorities services how they can help that group to make sure that they have a more equitable service within the error. One of the other things that I've been fortunate enough to do within S T two is some network rolls. So we're really looking at, um, in public health. And in the Northwest, I can speak particularly. We have a really, really good strong registrar network. It meets once every two months, and people are expected to have a roll within the time in training. Me and Rachel are doing this slightly differently. We're sharing two rolls this year, rather than one individual, and that can make it quite easier. So if one of us is off, the other one can pick it up. Or if one of us is busy in our day today job, the other one can pick it up. So one of those roles recruitment rep. So coming, talking to people about public health training like we are today answering questions, you know, just letting people know kind of how excited we are about it and then let them know what the process is about applying the other one is our region. The Northwest is split into three subregions, so there's Cheshire and Mercy Cumbrian, Lancashire, and there's Greater Manchester where we work. So Rachel and I get to bring the Greater Manchester trainees together once a month. We're setting up talk, setting up, learning what, More importantly, we're encouraged to have a space where we have peer support. Whereas trainees across the five years of the training scheme we leave copay for each other, checking that each other are okay and can actually really support each other through this, you know, training scheme that we've got to put a lot of hard work into. So That's actually a really, really enjoyable part that we're experiencing now as second years in the training program, and I stand up too funky for her projects. Okay, I'll start off by talking about the network. Well, since you just finished on that, I think it would be a good segue. So, um, I have a slightly different role in the network this year, and, um, the sustainability rep, um so echo everything. That case he just said about, you know, the the pear, um, support and everything that we get as part of the network in my role as a sustainability rep, What I'm doing is helping to share that the meeting, providing an avenue for people to come and talk about all things sustainability. So whether it be something that they're working on, something they've heard over the news, something they think that we might be able to influence some policy, those kind of avenues and you know, it's a It's a really open, friendly, informal forum where people can come and share ideas. We've had situations where you know, someone is working on something, and they've talked about it at the sustainability meeting, and it's inspired another register to go find out what's going on in their local authority on that topic and see if they can influence something over there or learn a little bit more about their local area. Um, at the moment, we do want a meeting once a month. Um, and like I said, all thoughts and views are welcome. So it's a really friendly informal, um uh, four. Um, And as we add all the other network, obviously which we haven't talked about today there's an opportunity for you to find something you're interested in plug into it and get working on it. So the network opportunities are really boundless, you know, and really helpful to support you during the training. So I'll go back to talk about, um, what I'm working on at the moment at Stockport Council. Um, yeah, the dreaded words. Covic. I'm sure no one wants to hear it anymore. It feels like it's been over. Talked about. So this what I'm doing is, um, an evaluation of the local response in Stockport. Um and so just going to be on the council, But looking at the actual local response in the area. So the police, um, schools um, looking at the CCG hospitals, you know? What did they think went well, what did they think? It didn't go so well. What can we learn from it? Those kind of things. So, um, as part of the research, what I did was I produced a defined question set, and then I did some qualitative research by interviewing all the relevant stakeholders. Of course, you can never interview everybody, especially since each interview is like an hour. So, um, but, you know, getting a broad range of relevant stakeholders, speaking to them, getting their views and then transcribing all those interviews and then doing the thematic analysis on it. So analyzing the the answers when I'm symptomatic analysis now analyzing the questions by themes to pick out the salient point people have made as part of the interview. So, um, what we're aiming to do with that is produced the final report where we can produce some recommendations as two, for example, highlighting what went wrong. You know what was challenging in the process? What could have been better? So, for example, could we have done better pre planning to prepare for covert, for example, or even, you know, in the later stages. What other things we learned that are generic that could apply to, you know, other working practices across the local area or even, you know, prepare for another pandemic. God forbid something like that was to happen again. So we're hoping to learn loads of lessons because it would seem like it would be a waste of time. If you know, over the last two years we don't pick up the salient lesson that you know, we've had the opportunity to go through whether or not we like that over the last two years. But there's some learning points from there, which could better improve the way we do live services to people in our population, and that's what we're trying to get at. So I've just tried to kind of summarize that into an average week. Um, and this is an accurate reflection of what I've been up to over the last couple of weeks. But it's hard to to say an average week because it does change depending on which project you're working on at any point in time. Um, so as a public health registrar, you're generally office based or working from home We're kind of in that flux period where lots of teams are still figuring out hybrid working and how they want to do it. Um, but, for example, my smoking cessation tobacco control project at the moment is involving me having lots of meetings with stakeholders, plugging into the regional meetings and finding out what's going on in other local authorities in the region. Planning this workshop event that we're going to hold in November, the Lark project is quite new. So, um, recently I've had kind of a scoping meeting about that, trying to figure out what the project will look like, what the aims are, what the final output is going to look like, um, and talking with my educational supervisor to make sure that the project is going to take off some of those learning outcomes. So there's about 80 ish. I think that you have to get signed off over the five years, Um, and I'll be on track to meet the number of learning outcomes that I should get signed off by the end of ST to and then in red. I've got some examples of things I've been doing with another project that's a bit more health protection related. So there's some local residents who are concerned about a particular industrial site. So we went to visit that industrial site. Um, last week. I think it was to get the lay of the land, so to speak. And now I'm kind of gathering and analyzing data about health outcomes, um, related to their concerns, to look at whether there's any evidence of, um, increased rates of specific health outcomes, for example, and writing that into a report. Um, so as you probably getting a sense of, there's lots of meetings, lots of kind of email admin, time to coordinate meetings and answer questions and gather data. Um, then lots of time for kind of analyzing data writing reports up, um, interspersed in that there are other meetings that maybe are not related to specific projects that I'm involved in, but I kind of broader than that. So, like the public health team meeting, finding out what's going on with the rest of the team and there's time within your working week to do those network rolls, and that's considered part of your job, and it contributes to learning outcomes that you have to get signed off, um, and things like the network meeting that happens every two months again. That's part of your day job. And it's expected that you go to that as part of your day job. And it's not like a nice extra that you try and get permission to go to kind of thing. Um, and then the other thing I was going to point out was, So now we're in ST to, and we're preparing for our part a or diplomat exam, which is in March. So between October and March, we get one day a week. That is a study day to prepare for that exam. So we will still need to do some revision in our own time, certainly after Christmas, because it is quite a tricky exam to pass. But you are given regular time within your working hours to do that revision. And there's a revision program, um, kind of set up to support you through that process. And then another project I'm doing at the moment is with the Faculty of Public Health and and it's called the Fair Training Project. So I'm looking at the kind of the demographics of the public health registrar work force and seeing kind of maybe there are any groups within our registrar work force who are under or over represented compared to the general population and also looking at any evidence of differential attainment in the a r c e p process and exams. So that's something that I'm really passionate about, Um, in terms of having a diverse, inclusive work force, which is what I'm involved in W p n n um, But my point with that, really is that the public health training program is a training program and you're not just there for service provision. In fact, you're not really there for service provisions at all. You're super numerary and every job, the ethos and the atmosphere in the culture is very much about enabling you and supporting you to meet your learning outcomes and to have those opportunities to pick up projects that are of interest to you and that you want to get involved in which again, I found very different from my experience as a foundation doctor. Um, so it is very much like a training supportive culture, which is kind of leading on to this slide about why we enjoy public health, and for me, that is definitely one of the pros. Obviously, I can only speak about the experience in the Northwest, but I suspect it's similar in in other deliveries as well. Your training needs are really prioritized. Um, and I have found it easier to maintain that work life balance. Um, since coming into public health, both in terms of things at work, so not to get too into kind of med Twitter drama that's been going on recently. But you know, you do have a proper chair and a computer that works and access to a bathroom and as much tea as you can drink basically during your working day, which does make a difference to your well being and generally, although sometimes you have to be careful when you're working at home. You know, I do have my evenings free, and I do have my weekends. Fri. I'm not doing nights, and that does make a difference to how I feel in my life. Generally, Um, my experience is that public health is a really friendly, welcoming specialty. There's lots of time to to meet your colleagues, to spend time with your colleagues to build relationships and networks and recognition that you'll be working with these people throughout your career. So you know, it makes sense to invest in building those relationships now. And I've really enjoyed the experience of working with people from different backgrounds. To me, it was so valuable during the mph it made for really interesting discussions and debates and raising points and perspectives that I would never have considered. And it's really useful now for part A, um for kind of we can balance each other out with our strengths and weaknesses in different areas. Um, so that's a really enjoyable part of it as well. Um, and I am quite passionate about making that case for prevention and trying to support people to live a healthier, happier, more meaningful, longer, better quality life. Um, without needing the health service as much. So there are lots of things that I'm enjoying about public health. But I'll hand over to K vitamin K to share their perspective as well. Okay, so yeah, so I love public health. I really do. It's like my car. And sometimes I forget that other people don't love their jobs that much. Um, it's a really unique kind of world where you get to kind of help people and put your knowledge, put your experience to use and really get stuck in and try and make a difference and kind of at this level, you get to do that quite a like senior positions. So you do have influence. You can go out there and change things. You can go and change a contract that then we'll make sure service completely behaves differently. Or, like Rachel says, go and try and improve Workforce so you can actually try and make a workforce more inclusive. And we know that that just helps in general. Um, I just really loved doing the Masters, getting to know people, Um, you know, even though it was the second one, it was still quite different my first one, even though they were the same subject. I've enjoyed going working a different local authority that never worked in before. I've enjoyed getting to meet the Reg is from the other years because they're so supportive. And as soon as you need a bit of help, I have a question. They will come to you. They will help you, but just the wider public health teams as well. And you become, if you're in your local authority and through many other rolls over the local authority roles. But because we're in ST ST to, that's mainly what we've done so far. So there's other roles like I mentioned before and kind of, um, universities, even in hospitals. But people in local authority roles have a wealth of experience. Some of them have been there since they dot since they started the career in the same place. And they just know these times like the back of their hands, and they just know how to help people. You know, where those people are really need help. You know where those vocal communities are, that need help. And I suppose, one thing that you can do, which I'm assuming that you very much don't get to do in kind of the medical field. A lot of jobs as well, anyway, is you get to go out there and listen to the public, see what they need, involve them, get them to court, produce what they want for their health, acknowledge that people are intelligent and can actually have a say in what goes on in their area and actually make sure that they are represented. And it's just really nice to be part of that. Almost making the world a little bit fairer. Yeah, echo all those points. Um, I suppose I'll start from saying, uh, you have motivated colleagues, you know, because, really, most people that come into public health come in for a reason. They really want to make life better for people. And so you all seem like you're, you know, at the same starting point. You're all motivated. You want to do something, you want to make something happen And it feels like, you know, you have that, uh, impulse and, you know, help to get going, trying to make a difference in people's lives. So that's one thing I've enjoyed. Um, even though I've come from a non medical perspective and different from Katie, in the sense that Katie obviously spend time in the local authority and I've never done, I was more working, you know, in industry and, you know, and working for national bodies. And so it's been a breath of fresh air, you know, working in the local authority and getting to meet people that you know, deliver the service is that you use every day as an actual resident of the population. If that makes sense and getting to understand, you know what the Environmental Health Team does, What the You know, the health protection team in the local authority doors what what the roles of the different people are. So it's been a really, really eye opening, you know, experience. Um, I would also say, Obviously, public health teaches you a lot of skills, and they use an evidence based approach to deliver this. So while you're on the training program, you're developing your own skill sets and you're developing your own A memory of how you will, what tools you will use to, you know, hopefully impact peoples' lives in the future. So and that's a very valuable thing. And, um, just as Rachel said, obviously the Converse is true. Um, obviously it's the only specialty that let's non medics in. And so it's interesting getting to know that you know, people that have been clinically trained and getting to understand their point of view as well. So overall, it's a really good training scheme, I would say, but for the sake of balance, Obviously not everything is perfect and there are always going to be challenges in any career. I think from my experience coming from a clinical background. Um, there was a bit of an adjustment period in terms of the pace of the work is generally it's certainly a local authority slower. So I think in clinical medicine you tend to have like a job's list for the day, and you're getting those tasks ticked off that day or maybe tomorrow, whereas in public health, the pieces of work that you're doing will take place generally over weeks and months. So it's a different skill set to be able to manage a project on multiple projects at once that are happening over that time period and kind of linked to that. Whereas in clinical medicine you tend to see the impact that you're having quite quickly. Um, in public health, you may not ever see the impact of the decision that you've made. Um, it might be that that that impact only shows up decades down the line, or it might just be that it's very difficult to separate the impact of the decision that you've made on that specific outcome. from all the other factors that have an influence on that outcome as well. Um, that's not the case in every branch of public health. You know, if you're working reactively in health protection, for example, then you probably will see an impact more often. But it's something to be aware of. That's a that's a bit different. Um, I think some people worry about moving away from patient facing rolls. Um, personally, I haven't missed it, but I think it is worth reflecting on what you enjoy about clinical medicine and what public health office. In comparison, I think it's quite a personal decision. But as Katie and think you've alluded to, um, it's not that you never speak to members of the public again. That idea of coproduction and community engagement is a really core thread in all public health work. So you will still be talking to the public and you'll be doing heaps of like multidisciplinary team working as it would be called in clinical medicine, of working with lots of people in different settings. Um, Katie, stand over to you, and so Rachel mentioned Imposter syndrome earlier, and we've had a few interesting conversations about that over the past year because, um, I almost come into it thinking it would be all the non medics having the impostor syndrome. And I think Rachel kind of thought the opposite because, you know, it's a very weird special to what to say is being non medical in a medical speciality can kind of make you go. Oh, do I belong here? You know, it is a strange situation. You are getting used to all these new things like a ercp, and things are very strange to you. But there's also some practicalities around that. So say public health, for example, gets about 60 to 70 trainees nationally a year. About half of them on average, will tend to be from like a public health background rather than a medical background. Just that confusing things. Um, just with employment and some of the rules and some of the terms and conditions around things just that in itself, the practicality of it can be a bit strange, which, you know, when you're a tiny, tiny group amongst lots and lots of trainees from multiple specialties across the country, you can kind of see how that happens. But you have to manage that and political environment. I think if you're new to work in a political political environment, and I know a lot of those things because when I worked in the NHS, I thought I understood what working in the political environment was. And then when the P. C. T. S kind of abolished and public health movements, local authorities, I was working in the local authority, thinking I know all about politics. I didn't. It's a brand new world. Local politics is different. You having a political neutral role is very different. Um, so getting used to that can be challenging, But it can also be really interesting and really exciting and just you know something that you can really influence with evidence at times. But other times it will just be very different than what you used to, um, And again, even if it's kind of the kind of background I've had as I change through my public health career, I had to move away from some of them, some of them front facing rolls. So when you get to a more senior level, you're not with the communities as much, and you really still have to make an effort to go back to the communities, which I think is really important, that you do that kind of still keep that link. But it can feel a bit strange and you can feel like you're not getting those immediate kind of gratification type jobs. Um, but it's still like, brilliant. At the end of the day, I'm still really enthusiastic about it. You're just going to be very honest and say that some of the stresses are different. And one thing that sometimes I've struggled with over the years is someone who is very passionate about my job, and what I do is, and especially working from home, turning off my computer at the end of the day. So you know, especially now we're not always walking out of office is if you just think I can just get that one more bit done. That will help. You know, switching off from work can be very difficult in a different way to what it is when you're actually dealing with people face to face and leaving somewhere, and it's not too mean that one's kind of top trumps the others, but it just you just got to be aware that it just doesn't always take away that stress. It becomes a different type of stress that you need to manage, and potentially you can manage a lot easier, but it's still going to be there. Okay, I think we're mostly talked about all the challenges, but I'll just say one more about your impact. Not always been that visible because obviously, if you've got to remember, if we're looking at public health, we're working on a population base. So it's easier if you're trying to influence an individual or change something for an individual. To make conditions better for them, you would probably see the impact along quicker because you can see whether they're getting better or not, or if something is happening with them or not. But most of the interventions you're working on our population base, it will take some time for you to be able to see what the impact of the strategy or the policy or anything that you've done well, how it turns out at the end, and sometimes that can be a bit frustrating because you're sitting there going. I don't know if this is gonna work. How do I know If it's gonna work, it's taking forever. Is it actually going to make any difference? You know, so so those are some of the challenges. But I would also say, because you are influencing a population, the impact over time will be bigger because you would have affected more lives. Just bear with it. It takes time, but you will make a difference. Hopefully, Great. So we're going to move onto talking about the actual process of applying for public health specialty training. And I thought it was worth starting with the competition ratios. So we need to acknowledge that public health is a competitive specialty to get into, um, these are the most up to date ratios on the F P H website at the moment. There from 2020 and the overall ratio was nine. People applied for everyone, um, job available across the country. Um, so I think there's probably two things to say about that. One is you might look at that and think, Oh, my God, that looks really competitive. I don't think I'm going to be very good. You know, I don't have that experience. I don't have this. I don't have that I don't have the other. Maybe I won't bother applying. The fact is that there are always going to be 60 to 80 jobs available, and somebody has to get them. So if you don't apply, then you definitely won't get one. It is worth applying. And unlike a lot of other medical specialties, you don't need to have been building a portfolio for years to be able to apply to public health. As you'll see shortly, Um, it's not necessary to have publications and teaching evidence, and, you know, um, have attended certain courses or anything like that to apply. So definitely worth trying would really encourage that. Um, and the other thing to say is that it's not uncommon for people to have to apply multiple times before they're they're successful. So if you do apply and you go through the process and you're not successful at any stage, try not to take it to heart or take it too personally. There are lots of brilliant public health registrars and consultants who apply it multiple times before they got in, and that process of going through the application. It does help you to be better prepared for the next time and to kind of learn a bit more about what they're looking for. Um, so don't be put off by the competition ratios, but do be prepared for the reality that it is a competitive specialty, and it might take you a few goes, um, to get in. All right. So I'm just going to talk about the timetable for the applications this year. Typically, the applications are done. An oriole and the link is at the top of the slide. So that's where you go to apply applications for this year open at 10 AM on the third of November and close at four. PM on the first of December. Please, really, If you're going to apply, make a note of four PM Don't be applying that. Don't be submitting your application at 3. 50. You might have. I t problems. The system might crash. Everybody else might have had the same idea. So please try and make sure you do it before that time. Um, once you submit your application, they will assess you for eligibility. And once you if you get through that stage, you will then be invited to the assessment center. So the Assessment Center for this year is well, it will be next year, 11th of January 2023 following from on from there. If you're successful, you then get invited to interviews. The interview Since the pandemic have been virtual interviews, and, um, people will be told when the interviews are. Obviously, we don't have the data at the moment. That's why it's to be confirmed. But, uh, more up to date information will be available on the faculty website. Um, closer to the time, Um, if you've been successful all through all the stages, you then get initial offers by the end of March 2023 for an August starts. So I'm talking about the eligibility. I'm just going to quickly talk about the eligibility for non medics and Rachel. We'll talk about those from a medical background. So the biggest eligibility point for non medics is that you you would have had to have 24 months practice at agenda for Change Band six or equivalent. So if you're working in the NHS, it's easy to prove, especially if you're working in a band six role. Um, that's easy to show if you're not working in the NHS. You you want to demonstrate that the role you're in is at an equivalent of Ban Six and of those 24 months practice of which you have to prove three months working full time must have been in the last 3.5 years preceding the advertising start dates. So in other words, in those two years you have to make sure that three months of those who are in the last three years before the process advertised and you would be due to start if you were successful, I'll hand over to Rachel. Thanks dot Okay, so I'm just going to preface it by saying that people can have very specific questions about the eligibility, and we're definitely not the right people to answer those questions. So the faculty of Public Health has a very comprehensive fake you document, which it's a really good place to look to see what the rules are for your very specific personal circumstances. But broadly generally, if you're coming from a medical background, you will need your GMC registration and licensed to practice to come into public health through the medical route. Um and then generally, in some ways, It's a bit easier to prove your eligibility from the medical background because you basically just need your foundation competency certificate, which you get at the end of F two. You have to have got that within the last 3.5 years. You just upload that as evidence on your application. If you're currently an F two, then I think you just tell them the deny me that you're currently in and your offer is conditional on you, um, successfully get into the end of F two. Basically, um, if you're currently in another specialty and you have a national training number and you want to transfer across, then I believe generally they accept that you will have proven your foundation competencies to get onto that specialty training program so you don't have to prove it again. Um, if you don't have your foundation competencies, then you can provide the alternative evidence of your competence with a quest form. Um, and there are specific rules about about that which I would encourage you to read on the FDA, the website if it applies to you. So we're just going to talk through some application tips when you're ready to apply for the training scheme. The first thing is to make sure that you demonstrate your eligibility. So, um, they really do take those eligibility things very seriously. And if you apply and you've not been able to demonstrate that you get dropped off at that first stage, so one of the tips were given is to make sure that you don't rely on your job titles to say what you've done. Try and tell people how your job title and how the roles you've done individually relates and meet the public health eligibility. So you want to say this relates to public health because the air spaces in the application from where you can do that and make sure you try and do that to show them, you know, above and beyond that you do demonstrate that eligibility and you can go to the next level. Make sure that you can also demonstrate that the job means agenda for change. Band six. This is obviously more important, especially if you're you know, you haven't been working for the n. H. S. And you need to demonstrate that so again, clarifying, you know, in the in the box below to say, This is why I believe in meats agenda for change. And six, this is my rolls and responsibility. This is what an equivalent band six would be doing in my role. And this is what I'm doing. You really want to try and explain those kinds of things? Um, the next step would be to let you know that it's quite a time consuming job. You're uploading documents, feeling the form and things like that. So don't leave until last minute. Try and do it in bite size chunks. If you want to or dedicate some time, take a day out and make sure you you do it correctly. But do it ahead of time, I would say, because you know there's this you can think. Oh yeah, it'll be a really quick application, but sometimes it might not turn out that way. You might have to go back and find some more documents you need to add, so just make sure you give yourself time when you're doing it. Once you've completed the application, check your application form again. Have you made sure that you put in your full work history? Have you explained any gap so for example, if you had a gap here out or you've taken some time out, Have you explained the reasons for the gap in there Because they would like to know that. Make sure you've attached to require documents. You know, make sure you haven't, you know, attached a different documents in error. Those kind of things just checked and make sure you haven't done that. And finally, like I said earlier, make sure you leave enough time to ensure that you don't miss the deadline. They're not flexible at all about the deadline. So if you miss it, you've missed it, and it's until the next year. So please do give yourself enough time to be able to go through the checklist. Make sure your application form is right and enough time to submit ahead of everyone else. Because, believe me, most people that are applying I'll probably wait until the last minute as well. So you know it will be no fault if the computer crashes and you missed the time, so just make sure not to do that. Katie will be talking about the assessment center. So once you've got past that first hurdle, um, if you get past the first hurdle, you get invited to the assessment center. The reason I'm speaking about this is Rachel mentioned earlier that some people take a few attempts and I will very open to say that I got through the training scheme on my third attempt. So what happens here is you take some tests. There's Watson Glaser. I ran around, and a situational judgment test just before I go into the tip will say is at this point only a certain amount of people get through to the next stage so you could pass. This stage would be on a waiting list, and in my first two years of applying, I was on that waiting list. So I got through. I was excited. I passed the test, but my score wasn't quite high enough to get me to interview. And I sat there waiting to see if enough people drop off. Unfortunately, or fortunately now because I've got to work with Rachel and one K and you know they didn't drop off and I got my interview on my third year, and that's when I got through. So people tend to love one of these hate, one of these and feel a bit in the middle about the other one, depending on the type of personality you are, The Watson Glaser is about critical thinking. So it'll ask you these questions like I don't know, all apples are green, some apples are rotten, and then it will give you a statement and ask you if it's true or false and and just very much we can get you and we can. You can read statements and workout what's being said in those statements. And if you can pick that out and look at it critically, and that's about 25% of the test and it lasts 45 minutes. Um, the next one is run run, so it's a numerous tests, So that will be lots of things that you remember from GCS the maths. And this was the But I love. This is my favorite. And each year, very sad was very sad and, like, just loved kind of prepping for this because it was just Math is fun, and it's like puzzles. Um, so you'll be doing lots of things. They're like some algebra's and comparing quantities and things like that. Those two there is something called job test prep that a lot of people used to prep for those, and that's a really good way to prep for them because they're standard tests that are used across all sorts of things in the civil service and lots of different jobs. Use that to actually kind of do that for stage of interviews, and what we'll say is this is done at the Pearson View test centers. So the place where you do kind of theory driving test. They have been letting people do them at home during the pandemic. But I'm not quite sure if that stopped now, so I don't want to say the definitely would be able to do it at home. That has been an option, I think, the past two years, but the sort of person I am. I didn't want to do it at home. I wanted to go to the test somewhere else and get my head in like the test for him. Then there's nine, so you have 45 minutes of Watson Glaser 45 minutes of camera and then you have 90 minutes of the S, J T. And that situational judgment. So this is kind of like the biggest, closely kept secret in public health. And in a way there's a reason for that because what the training scheme doesn't want is people who can learn to do tests very well. If they have all the tips and tricks, you want to get the right people through. Answer these questions that the right people for the training scheme saying that it doesn't mean that you can't prepare and you can't kind of learn how to take these tests. So it'll be it'll be giving you a public health scenario and they'll be asking you about that and how you would deal with that scenario so different. People have prepared for this in different ways. Again, there are some kind of situational judgment tests on job test prep. Um, but they're not the exact ones you'll be getting on this exam because, like I said, there are close the health secret. And some people have used critical thinking type books that also help you with the Watson Glaser. Um, there are other kind of books that people have used. What I did, which is quite different from other people, is I sat with my line manager. And so because that was the one that I wasn't doing that well on Sorry. Rachel jumped ahead with my side. So what I did with my manager is I sat down and said, My lowest scores on my sgot. How do I make them higher and said, I want to actually change my professional practice. So I actually worked practically on changing my professional practice to be behaving more positively in situational judgment type scenarios. And that's mhm. Hello? Hope you lost Katie. I think we might have. Oh, dear. I can't see you guys. So I wasn't sure it wasn't. I wasn't sure. Um, so I think we'll I'll carry on. And Katie can jump back in even when she arrives. Um, but I think Katy was essentially saying she was looking for opportunities to to learn in practice as she was. I think she's work. You back 80? Yes. I'm sorry. I don't know what's happening to my computer. I think it's right. Sorry. Which bit did I cut out on? You were just telling us about learning in practice for the STD, I think. Yes. So that's the one I struggled with, so I wanted to get better at that. And I thought the best way to do that was to be that member of staff that the tests were looking for rather than learning how to answer the questions in the right way. So I start with my line manager and tried to change my professional practice into a more positive kind of productive way. And that's what worked for me. Because actually, from my first two years, the scores were the past. I did okay and then got a really good one on that third year. So it's about you as a learner and almost picking which way it's going to help you do this great. And I just because I didn't have anyone to talk to you about public health professional practice, I used the FBH good public health practice guidelines and had to read of them, which I thought was quite useful. And then, um, I really didn't like the rand Well, when I was practicing for it, I haven't tried to divide fractions for years, and I couldn't remember how to do it. So I found B BCG CSC bite sized mass quite good for revising those things, and I would say it's really worth doing. The job Test prep has the random our exam, but it also has some, like numeracy drills. We can just practice doing, um, maths quickly. Basically. And that's worth doing because you can't use a calculator in the exam, and it is quite time pressured the camera. Um, and frankly, I think you mentioned the eczema and GRE. Yes, I just talked about. So for me, um, doing the assessment center, I not the greatest person like in Matt. So, um yeah, like Katy was talking about it being funny. I was like, That's my greatest nightmare. So yeah, and how was the one? That was my records, But I was fine with the other two. And I found that while using job test prep because I, you know, looked at the questions a few times. It just felt like maybe I was I'm now memorized them if that made sense, and I wanted to be able to understand the logic behind actually during them. So I spoke to a friend of mine, and she pointed out that actually, I could use G mat and G r e um, math to kind of prep for it. So the run right is made up of two parts. There's a part called the Comparison of Quantities, and those kind of questions are the questions that you find in the G r a mat in one of the sections. And so I used that to practice for the that section of the camera and also the other part of it, the data sufficient C section. You find those type of math questions on the G mat on one of the sections of the G mat. So that's what I eventually did this last time. When I apply, I took the time to just try and understand the logic a little bit better. Stop doing the calculations because that just eats up your time. You're basically supposed to think about it in a reasonable fashion to be able to get the answers. And those G mat and GRE question papers help me to do that and hopefully get good enough great to be able to obviously proceed on to the next center and just finally to point out, you can get free. S JT passed papers for the foundation program online, so you've never done an SJ 80 before. That can help you to see the style of question, but they are clinically focused, and the sgot for this assessment center is not clinically focused. You don't need any clinical knowledge. It's all set in the public health context. So it's useful for the idea of the question, but not for the content of the questions I would say generally. So once you hopefully successfully get through the assessment center, the next stages to be invited to what's called the Selection Center, which is basically an interview. Um, and as I think I think you mentioned previously, um, before the pandemic, this used to be like a half day in person interview in love, borrow. And since the pandemic, it's been a virtual online interview. Um, and it's going to be into an online interview again this year. Um, and you can see the dates there. It's expected to be around a 30 minute interview. There'll be more information provided on the website closer to the time and generally in previous years, they've interviewed around 216 applicants, which would be a ratio of about three interviews per one post or one job that's available at the end of it to give you an idea of what the competition is like at this stage. Um, and what happens is your selection center score from the interview is combined with your score from the assessment center, and that gives you your final overall ranking. So we can't tell you exactly what happens at the selection center or what to expect, because that's confidential information. But we can give you some tips about useful things, um, to prepare and to think about in advance. And I suppose these things are probably not very surprising. You'd probably expect to do this the most interviews, but I think it's really worth reflecting on your motivation for wanting to come into public health. So why do you personally want to come on to the scheme? What experiences? If you had that led you to make this decision, and why do you think you would be a good registrar? Um, so that's the kind of question that you can really think about in advance, and you don't want to have a pre prepared answer that you real off. But you can definitely practice the key point you want to include and, um kind of presenting that in a distinct, articulate way. Um, I would encourage you to read over the person's specification, which you can find online, and that's essentially telling you exactly what they're looking for when they're interviewing people. So think about how you can demonstrate examples of times where you've shown that you have these skills that they said they're looking for, and it's just worth pointing out. They're not looking to recruit people who are ready to be consultants already. They're looking to recruit people who would benefit from going through the training program. Um, so do you have to think about those skills they're looking for? I would try from now until your interview or potential future interview to be really clued into what's going on in the world of public health. And that could be through reading the BMJ through following people on Twitter. Um, keeping an eye on the news. You know, there's lots of different ways that you can just keep plugged into things that are happening in the world of public health, and we'll mention a few of them in a minute. And this tip was from Katie. If you're working in a job where you have the opportunity to interview other people, then that can also be really useful to have experience on the other side of the table. Um, and kind of reflect on your experience of interviewing other people and what you've learned from that and how it might, um, change, think, make you think about changing or refining your own style. Um, as an interview, we and then in terms of general tips, definitely make sure you check your technology in advance. You know, your cameras working your microphone is working The wife. I was going to be okay on the day, Um, and it's easier said than done. But if you can get into a mindset of thinking, you know I'm going to have to go, I'm going to try my best. But if it doesn't work out this year, that's okay. I can try again next year. Try and take that pressure off your shoulders and not get hyped up about competition ratios or things like that. Um, have a go see what happens. You can always try again next year. So once you've been through the interview process, you then are able to start ranking jobs on Oreo, which is the website you've used to apply. Um, when? When we were doing this, some regions had their jobs split up individually. So in the northwest, you could apply. You know, you could rank Rochdale Stockport very according to which one you preferred. Um, and in other regions, they just had the whole region. So, like, for example, they had 10 spots in Yorkshire and number and then choosing where in your sugar number you might want to be would come later in the process. So don't be put off by that if that happens again, and then basically the office are made in meritocratic order. So the person who has received the highest score from their selection center and assessment center points combined will get their first choice placement. And then they work down the list, allocating people, um, the highest ranked jobs that they've got on their list. That's left. And you should rank every job that you would be willing to take in the country. Um, they then send the office out. So the first office, they say, will be made by the 30th of March and and you have the option to accept your offer, you can hold it and you can refuse it, turn it down and withdraw from the process entirely. Um, if you accept it, you can accept it with upgrades. So if you've been offered a job that you would be willing to take, um, but you had other jobs that you drank higher. You can accept and upgrade, um, so that if other people who were offered that job drop out of the process and that job becomes available, you might get upgraded to that role. And I think similarly you can hold with upgrades. So if you've been offered a job, but actually you don't think you would take it, you can hold without grades up to a certain period of time. You might get upgraded, and if not, then you would have to reject that offer if you didn't want it. And you do get some feedback on your performance at the Assessment center in the Selection center, but it comes much later. It comes several months later, so we've got a few resources here that you might find useful. Um, it will be easier to look at these when they're on r u T video and we're writing a blog posts, which will be on the W. P M n website, and you can click all these links on as well. So generally to kind of get a bit more of an idea about skills in public health. Um, there's an article there about how to critically a pros. The paper. Um, an article about epidemiology, Um fingertips is a website that is really commonly used in public health. So if you want to get a sense of the type of data that you might be looking at as a public health registrar and kind of making sense of, is that statistically significant, how does that compare to, you know, how does my local authority compare in terms of obesity prevalence to the regional average and national average? What's the trend looking like? How has that changed over time? That can be a good website to have a flick around. There's a book called Using to Train in Public Health, which a lot of people read before applying for the program. I think it's about 3 lbs on Amazon. There's a free online course from Imperial College that's around the foundations of public health practice and there is a training in public health podcast which you can find on Spotify, which was a public health registrar at the time, talking to other registrars and consultants about work that they're doing for more information on the training program. Specifically, the FBH website is the place to go that has all the information and have a play around and look around on there. Um, as I said, Have a look at the ST one person specification to see what specifically they're looking for from applicants. The scheme. There's another YouTube video from West Midlands registrars talking about their experiences and their advice for applying that you might like to have a look at as well. And if you want to see what the curriculum looks like, once you get on to the scheme and what all of these outcomes that we were talking about our and then there is a curriculum that's really accessible as well, and then finally, just to help with kind of that general reading around public health issues, the King's Fund is a really useful website to have a look at Michael Marmots. Reports are kind of key reading for any public health professional, so definitely worth having a read of those? Um, there's a blog there with some reflections on to public health consultants experiences of their first year of being a public health consultant. And we put a few names down of public health consultants on Twitter that you might like to follow who posts some interesting stuff. So I think that's everything. We probably overrun a little bit there. But does anyone have any questions you'd like to ask? Hi. Thank you so much for for that really, really informative and thorough talk. Um, we've actually had a few questions I've compiled from different places. So we've had a few on slide. Oh, um, a few and other kind of just message to me. Um, So I'll try and group the ones, um, that we've got together. Um, some of them You've kind of touched on a little bit already. So you kind of talked about the the pathway, um, and what might be involved in the recruitment process? Um, in terms of topics, that or the themes that come up in the recruitment interview, Are there any specific stations or is there a specific structure? Tha the interview that you encountered? I think, unfortunately, that's one of the things that we can't really divulge. You do like, have to sign things that say you won't share details of the interview. Um, so, yeah, again. It's only that general advice that I can offer and you can look at the FBH website in advance to see whether they give you any more specific information. And I think from memory. When I got invited to interview, there was a little bit more information about the structure that it would take, Um, at that point. So there will be a little bit more information if you get invited to interview. But I think those general tips about thinking about your motivation for applying, really trying to keep up to date with what's going on in the world of public health being able to kind of talk around public health issues are examples of things that would be useful to do. Okay, thanks. Um, so some other things You obviously mentioned the person specification. Um, some questions About what? What is it that attracted you personally to public health? Obviously you've talked about all the things that all the reasons why you love it now that you're doing it. But what was the initial stimulus to you wanting to do public health? Fine. I'll go first. Um, so, yeah, I used to work like I said, my first degree was pharmaceutical science, and I used to work in the lab. I used to do drugs formulation. The drug development process is a longer and address and tough one. You could, you know, be making medicine today, hoping that you get a result. And it turns out it doesn't quite work. Or, you know, even if you do get, you know, the drug development process is successful and you end up with a product I started to run realized much later, as I carried on in my career that I was basically the bandage at the end of the process. If that makes sense, um, and it felt like, wouldn't it be better to be more upstream trying to fix the issues rather than just giving someone a cure which they wouldn't need anyway if you prevented it in the first place? And that's when I started to think about Oh, maybe I want to do something a bit more population based rather than individual based and less lab. I suppose maybe I was also getting, you know, steroid working in the lab 24 7 or whatever it was. So, yeah, I needed a job change, but yeah, it was That was the inspiration to kind of think a bit more upstream, Katie. And so I before I knew what public health was, I was very interested in health and equality and public health. And I'm from quite deprived area in my tone by no means that the hardest life of people in my town. But I'm from a quiet, deprived area. Um, And then I always had a sense of unfairness because while I wasn't a medic with an A and I was the first person and I'd say at 17 I was doing this the first person people coming into, you know, telling all the kind of problems too. And they weren't always kind of problems. Maybe some people would go to a new one because they have very different lives. And when I started to look outside the hospital for different jobs, I came across this really random job. Didn't know what it was. I didn't know what public health was, it was this affordable one project work a job, and I kind of just went through it on the off chance. There was a bit of look in there because nobody did that back then so I could do it without experience because nobody had the experience, managed to get through the interview and then was working in the public health department in Bolton. Um, finding out what public health was, and the more I found out what it was, the kind of more I fell in love with it. But what was also brilliant about public health to me, which is something that I try and try to do as a manager in previous rules, is I was in, like, kind of the lowest branded you could get in at the hospital, and I never really thought I'd have a senior job or anything at this scale. So I got into this public health department on this job that I thought was like, really senior and the highest I would ever get. And I was looking all these other people like, Wow, you can get a masters. Wow, you can go and do this and had a really encourage environment, which is what public health teams tend to be, where they kind of took me, saw something and develop me and made it so that I could kind of get in this position that in my wildest dreams I never thought I'd be in. So it's just that kind of I ended up in here by accident, but it was always there and actually a lot of kind people around. They're willing to kind of nurture what they kind of saw and wanted to kind of help me get there. I think that's really common, isn't a lot of people say they kind of fell into public health by accident, and I didn't know what public health was, but actually, it turns out I had been doing public health work for ages. Um, for me, I think there were definitely there were definitely some push factors. If I'm honest away from clinical medicine, I think I had always thought I would do general practice, and then when I did my general practice placement as an F two, there were things that I didn't enjoy about it. A lot of the risk management holding risk and kind of working on your own. A lot of the time they were things I didn't enjoy. Um and then I got very burnt out doing eight months of A and E, and it really made me rethink what I wanted from my career long term. So they were definitely push factors, but they're probably overwhelmed by the poor factors to public health. And you shouldn't come into public health just to escape clinical medicine. Um, I think for me I realized that actually, I wasn't that interested in clinical medicine, and I was far more passionate and motivated by kind of social justice stuff. That idea about trying to change the cause is of the causes and and recognizing that there were lots of patients I was seeing in this age and the department who are coming in with, like, acute asthma exacerbations. And I was treating the acute asthma exacerbation, but then sending them back to a cold, damp home that was next to the motorway with horrible air pollution and knowing they had unstable jobs where they may or may not be able to afford the prescription for the preventative inhaler, it's like it's a real sticking plaster. I felt working in a and a Not to say that, and it is not important. Clearly, we need a well functioning and department, and that's an essential job. But I realized that the bit that excited me and got me more passionate was the stuff that I could do in public health that I couldn't really achieve as an individual clinician, all really inspiring, um, stories of how you ended up in public health. That's great. Um, thank you for that. I was going to say on that topic. Actually, there are some questions about, um again, whether you miss clinical work and whether you can combine some clinical work with public health, if if any of your colleagues do that, just because I think one of our one of our viewers has just said that she likes she, he or she likes the idea of public health or research work, but they don't want to lose their clinical skills and and contact with patients. Hmm. So I guess there's two parts to that question. Personally, I'm not missing the patient base in contact at the moment because I feel like I'm getting that that sense of working collaboratively with people is being fulfilled in other ways, and I feel like there is lots of opportunity, as Katie has talked about in terms of public engagement and coproduction with communities. So you still get that interaction with the general public if that's what you're looking for. But it's in a different way. Um, if you, unlike me, do really enjoy the clinical side of medicine and want to keep that up, it's possible. It's not easy to do, I would say, but it is possible. So there is somebody in the Northwest who's recently graduated as a public health consultant and is now doing a GP training, planning to be a dual specialist in in general practice and public health. Um, and I believe there are some other people working who are a anti consultants and also do public health. So there are examples out there, but I think it is a big thing to take on because to keep your clinical skills up to date, you're going to have to take on a locum work, probably on your weekends, or go part time on the public health training scheme to facilitate that. So, um, uh, it's doable, but it's quite a big commitment, I would say so I think about whether that's achievable and would give you the kind of work life balance that you want as well. Thank you. And I know that, Rachel, your slide kind of went through a typical working day for you or working week for you. And it sounded like you mentioned sometimes you do site visits. There was a question about whether you do a lot of desk work, office work or whether you, you know, kind of all your daily work days, like whether you mainly stay in one place in the office or whether you're out and about okay to your bank. Want to come in on that? And what I'd say is so a lot of mine's kind of guess based at the moment. But I've got to go and I've got virtually met with the veteran's groups. But then I've been invited to go to breakfast groups and go into people's kind of spaces and speak to them there. And what would say I'm going to answer This is from my experience of consultants I've worked with previously before I got on the train and scheme and ridges, I think if you want to get out and about, you put the effort in, and that's the type of consultant and ready will be because what you tend to get and what you tend to see are in my experience is what I've seen is people have a lot of choice and how they do their job. So if you prefer to be that kind of behind the desk, doing the lip review, looking at it that way and getting kind of other people in your team that prefer that to do that, then you can do that. What I hope I can still manage to do when I'm a consultant is still get out there, be involved in communities, have those discussions because I think that's important to kind of remind me of why I'm doing it. So I think it's very much your choice is one of those jobs. So you almost every consultant I've worked with and that's not, you know, everyone in the country. So this might just be my personal experience has mold in their job somewhat to their personality and their personal ways of working, and the training scheme is there to equip you to do that in a way that is beneficial to the population you're working for. It sounds like a really flexible job in that sense. Um, on that topic, actually, there's a question about what are the subspecialties of public health and if there are any, Yeah, yeah, I think the main one is health protection that people would talk about. So when you're on the training scheme, everybody has to do three months health protection, placement with Adoxa, and then you have to go on call for I think it's around 15 to 18 months and do a certain number of on call shifts. However, there's also a two year health protection placement that you can apply for that for some years is more competitive than others. And what happens with that is that tends to be people who want to go on to be health protection consultant with Adoxa. So that's kind of one of the main ones that people think about, um, the other type of jobs that are available are kind of local authorities. There are some hospital jobs. There are some academic jobs. There are jobs in, uh oh head, which is the office and health disparities. But I also get what the eyes for because it's quite knew that used to be part of a PhD. Um, so it's you don't actually kind of specialize in that way as such, but you can direct your career, and the one that you mainly do it with is the health protection one. Because I think they do want the consultants in health protection to have had that two year training personal while in training. Um, probably habits I forgot. Funky. Is there anything that I'm missing there? I don't think so. I think you've probably covered most of it. Um, and obviously what? The only thing I would add to say on the previous question was to say, use the opportunities of the placement where you go to see what you would like to do to see how active you know, you you could be in a role in that organization to see whether you, you know, it gives you an opportunity. For example, if your desk next person to give you that balance. So, uh, the good thing about the training program is it lets you try out those jobs, which is probably quite unique you know, um and so you get to see Okay, Do I really want to be in a hospital setting? I don't know. Do I want to be in a national organization? Do I want to, you know, be doing public health more a local level and, you know, and then what opportunities will be available for me to do that? Would I be more, uh, front facing? Will I be back off the office? What? You know, what would a typical day in those types of roles look like? So you get to test it out, Really? You know, and I don't think you know, you interview for many jobs that let you try before you buy it effectively. So, yeah, it's a good opportunity to do that. I suppose that's where it's that being politically aware comes back in as well. So actually, politics very much effects how public health is funded. So I've probably gained quite a rosy version. But if you've got smaller public health team, that doesn't have as much funding or if we go forward, public health funding changes and teams get smaller or bigger, that may influence how much control you have over some of those decisions as well. And you'd mentioned earlier that you know you're largely supernumerary, which is a great opportunity during your training to to really be a fly on the wall and get involved as much as you want to be. But in terms of the projects that you mentioned you, you will have your own individual project. And, um, sometimes it's kind of liaise with each other about them. Who who is made up in those teams who's involved in those projects? Would there be a consultant? Would there be other registrars on there? Or how? How does that work? Slightly hard to answer because it really varies depending on where you're working. Um, so I guess within the local authority right now, the pieces of work that I'm doing are being supervised by a public health specialist. And then I'm checking in with my educational supervisor, who is the consultant, Um, that works at Rockdale. She's a D p h. Um, So she's helping me to make sure that the pieces of work I'm doing are taking off learning outcomes in my portfolio, and we're checking in and having like, reflective conversations about what I'm learning and, um, kind of getting advice from her. But the nitty gritty of helping me and giving me oversight on those projects comes from the public health specialists who have those areas sitting under their portfolio. They're responsible for because one of the things about being a registry there is a bit like being a rotating trainee. You come I/O over a certain period of time, but that work has to carry on long after you've gone. And it was good. You know, it's happening long before you arrived as well. So they've got the kind of oversight of that and that continuity. Um, and I'm working with other people in the team to help with data collection and analysis and finding the right people to talk to and building those relationships. Um, Katie and Bank. I don't know whether you've got anything else to add. I think that as well, and that's kind of our experience in ST ST, too. But as you go through, um, so you're so you're back in a local authority in ST for ST five, you'll be given a piece of work, and actually, part of your job will be to make those decision to to involve, so you'll be the person deciding that building it, shaping it. Obviously, you'll always have some external factors that mean that you have to do certain things. But you might be the person who gets kind of a piece of work and decides that you need house and involved environmental health planning and then work out how to pull that group together. But also with the advice and kind of experience of the people around you influencing that, it sounds like it's very case by case basis. So sorry for throwing you a cover over there. I think one another one that came up really was, um are there any differences between the projects the types of projects that you guys do between going in through the non medical or medical route? Or does it affect what kind of projects you get? Whether you need a different CCT qualification, Um, and that sort of thing know once you're once you're in the scheme, everyone is the same. It doesn't like it doesn't matter what your background was in the sense that we've all got the same learning outcomes that we need to have demonstrated that we've achieved, and we all need to get through the same a r c e p process and the same exams. Um, it might be that, for example, Katie, having worked in public health a lot longer than me well, be able to sign off for health. Needs assessment quicker. I don't know. I'm assuming here that maybe Katey has done health these assessments before. Whereas for me, it was brand new, so I might want to have a couple of goes at it before I'm happy to sign it off, for example. So in that sense, maybe, but basically no, Katie, you can come back and tell me I'm completely wrong. Actually, Strangely, I haven't done health needs assessments before, but done similar things. And I think the main difference is I'm going to kind of funky in case this is what you were going to say is about the masters. Um, no, I'm not sure. What did you think I was going to say? You actually don't necessarily have to do the masters if you come in with the Masters. That's not difference between, like the public health and the medical route, because, actually, some people come in through the medical route and have masters exactly and like Haiti, you can decide to do it again. Um, I was probably just being a bit lazy and decided I didn't want to do another master's. So yeah, you can wear the options. I'll let you know in March. If that was a wise decision or not, we'll see how it goes. I suppose the only other thing I would say is, um, those academic placements, some of the there are only available to doctors. Um, so maybe that's a little bit of a difference, but I think it's starting to widen out a bit. So there's some research opportunities you can get as non medics on the scheme. But traditionally they used to be certain ones that were only available. Two medics. Yeah, I think that's the Academic Clinical fellowships, which is a separate application process for um, which you can do before you apply to the skin and you can do during the scheme. But unfortunately, they're only available two medics, and there are a handful of if you decide you want to do a PhD. At some point during the scheme, there are a handful of like funding opportunities of PhDs that are only available two medics. But as I said, there are other opportunities that are available to everybody. Um, so there are ways around it. Thank you so much. I think those are the main topics of conversation that came up in the question section. So thank you so much for your time. I just want to say thank you so much to all three of our speaker's for giving up their time and giving you such a thorough kind of insight into what their lives are like as public health registrars and about how diverse the register Our pool is, um, non Medicare medic, different backgrounds and Rachel's, which is important work to make sure that there is good diverse within that specialty as well. Um, so I'd be really grateful if if everyone in the audience could please complete some feedback and give our speakers some excellent feedback for that talk. And please do join us for our upcoming, um, upcoming events by following us on metal. Um, but also we've got are widening participation women in surgery series who are proudly working with prism, which is a pride and surgery. Four. Um and we've got many, many talks coming up from about prism and how LGBT visibility improve patient experience through to health inequalities for LGBTQ plus patients and gender affirmation surgery implications in a heteronormative surgical world. So it's a really exciting, um, series coming up. So please do join us for that. And thank you so much for all of you and in the audience and here from our speaker's for joining us tonight, just quickly to say W P m n has emerged from medical students and doctors who created the organization. Um, and even though it's got medics in the title, we are very open and welcome anybody from any background who wants to be a public health register or consultant. So please don't feel like the medication is in. The name is is putting you off. Feel free to join W P M n. And the blog with a lot of this information will be available in the next week or so. Excellent. Thank you so much. Everyone have a great evening. Thanks. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Okay. Oh, that's it. I think we might still be alive. Do we wait for them to go off or which is all evil. Mm. I don't know if I know how to not be alive anymore, so yeah, unfortunately, yeah, I think that will be it for the night. And we'll catch up off line somewhere. That sounds good. Bye. Guys can take care of by everyone. Good job.