This webinar, hosted by the Faculty of Medical Leadership Management in collaboration with the Widening Participation in Medicine Network, will provide an introduction to the network and cover the foundation and core values of WPMN. With Stats like 4% of doctors coming from working class backgrounds, 80% of people getting into medicine from 20% of the schools in the UK, and certain ethnicities still being significantly underrepresented in certain medical specialties, the Widening Participation in Medicine Network is here to provide guidance and foster a more inclusive environment for medical professionals. Kim's account of her own journey from Bristol to University to medical school will provide valuable insight into the barriers and struggles many face along the way, and provide focuses for the WPMN to help ensure people from all backgrounds have the same opportunities going forward.
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FMLM Trainee Steering Group - 9th Session: Widening Participation in Medicine Network (WPMN)

The FMLM Trainee Steering Group (TSG) is excited to present the Introduction to Leadership Development Programme, tailored specifically to doctors in training. It comprises of a series of monthly free online events over the next year, which offers both an introduction to a range of core leadership topics, as well as key insights from leaders both within and outside the field of healthcare.

Each session offers a unique blend of education and inspiration, with the aim of supporting your development as a clinical leader. All attendees can record their learning in the FMLM Leadership Development Passport, which can provide portfolio evidence for your progression towards achieving the required leadership competencies.

We’re delighted to be hosting this programme, and we look forward to welcoming you on the next step of your leadership journey.

9th Session: Widening Participation in Medicine Network (WPMN)

Monday 23 May 2022: 19:00 – 20:30

Are you passionate about equal access to medical education and leadership? Do you want to see a more diverse and inclusive medical workforce?

You will not want to miss this exciting webinar with WPMN, a national charitable organisation working to build a UK medical workforce that is representative of the community it serves by fostering an environment of equity, inclusivity and community. WPMN advocates for all those from widening participation backgrounds at all stages of their medical career, facilitating equal access to resources, opportunities and experiences and inspiring our future healthcare leaders.

Join FMLM on Monday 23 May, 7-8:30pm to find out more about the origins of WPMN, their journey to date and exciting upcoming ventures that you could be a part of. Join WPMN's free membership and support their mission to be a beacon for the development of a more inclusive and representative healthcare industry in the UK; one that recognises and celebrates diversity and provides their members with the support, tools and information to achieve their goals.


WPMN Founder and CEO, Dr Jade Scott-Blagrove: The foundation and core values of WPMN.

WPMN Chair, Dr Anbreen Bi: Current projects and collaborations.

WPMN Events Officer, Dr Olivia Kuo: Upcoming WPMN conference and future ventures.

Further Videos on Leadership Development can be found here:

Learning objectives

Learning objectives for this teaching session: 1. Understand the differences between widening participation and widening access in terms of medical practice 2. Gain an understanding of the demographics within the medical workforce and what this means in professional practice 3. Be familiarised with how access to medical school education varies in terms of socioeconomic backgrounds, ethnicities and other factors 4. Enhance individual knowledge on how one's family, cultural and economic background influences access to Medicine 5. Develop self-awareness of the implications of challenging experiences in medical training and career progression.
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Computer generated transcript

The following transcript was generated automatically from the content and has not been checked or corrected manually.

this meeting is being recorded. Okay, I'm going to press start now. Lovely. Thank you. Um, okay, so we're just going to wait for everybody to join. Um, well, just give it a couple of minutes, because we just open the gates. Mhm. Um, Grant. So people are now joining, so we'll just hold on a few minutes, and then I'll introduce this and then we'll get going. Numbers are slowly rising. Yeah. Okay, lovely. Well, as this is being recorded will kick off. So hello. My name is Kim. I'm the London Representative for the trainee steering group of the Faculty of Medical Leadership Management. And this Welcome to our ninth webinar. Um, this is a very exciting webinar for us because, um, this is our first collaborative events, um, with a fantastic organization, which is the widening participation in medicine network, which was really only set up a very short time ago. Um, but I won't spoil kind of what it's all about, and I'll introduce and Green Jade and Olivia who are going to tell us a little bit more about it. Thank you very much. I'll just share my screen so you can see the presentation just to double check. Is that working perfect? That's working. So thank you for the introduction. So yes, So together, I guess we are widening participation Medics Network. But there's such a big group of us. We have over 100 and 20 volunteers now, and we were founded in May 2020 so it is still a pretty new network. So there's three of us has already been stated, really, But I'm going to start off. I'm Jade. I'm a radiology registrar, addenbrooke's and also working at West Suffolk at the moment as well. And I'm in my second year of radiology training, and I'm going to cover the foundation and core values of W. P M n. And then I'll hand over to and brain who hand over to Olivia. So just to get started, really, I thought the stats is always a good place to start just to get an overview of why we exist, why we do what we do. So just to take us a few steps back, widening participation when you look at it in what the different medical schools describe, it is a little bit different in each of the medical schools. There's a slightly different criteria, and often it's used when you're thinking about widening access. So actually getting into medicine. But we know that widening participation not just about getting into medicine but throughout medical school and actually throughout your career as a doctor, so that word widening participation has lots of meanings. Whether you're you have a disability or from a low. So she your economic group, perhaps you're a carer or care lever, and you might be from an ethnic minority group as well. So there's lots of different groups that encompasses and all of those groups together. They're underrepresented groups within medicine, but often lots of other careers as well. But when we look at some of the stats here, for example, these ones the top one is a couple of years out of date now. But only 4% of doctors actually come from working class backgrounds, so I think that really struck home to me when you're actually seeing those figures. I'm from a working class background myself, and you think when people when we come together and it's not just within, like working the day to day job as a doctor, but it's also that environment, that urine sometimes when discussions might be going on things that you can't relate to quite the same way as your peers. So that's why I thought I put that one in there, and then the second one is another one. That's sort of one of the ones that really made me think as well. So it describes low ability of putting quotation marks that's taken straight from the reference at the end. But it's saying someone from a high income family with a low ability compared to someone from a low income family but a really high ability, they're actually so much less likely to be a high earner. So how much you want is not related to your ability is actually related to your network, who you know and who can get you went to where you want to be. And again, that's really key in medicine as well. So moving on to the next 1 80% of people that actually get into medicine, or only from 20% of the schools in the UK, so that doesn't just include private schools, but some of the grammar schools as well. So it does include a proportion of state schools, too. But it's just thinking about the figures of what our profession is made out of. Whenever I sort of have spoken about those three, they all sort of figure around class and socioeconomic group. But then there's lots more. Some of the data is available easily. Some of them you have to sort of apply for access. But then we also look at the really interesting one. I think of ethnicity, and often when you look at specific groups within sort of different specialties, you might see that there's more people from certain backgrounds. But often the term baby is used and it's still use quite frequently. I think it will change over the years, but within bomb there's lots of different ethnicities, and whilst others might be more represented or actually equally represented, there's definitely sort of like the two that I've mentioned here, Bangladeshi and black Caribbean backgrounds. They're actually really underrepresented still. So even if someone might say radiology is really diverse, well, actually, if we look at some of the specific ethnicities and we actually break down what we're just calling bomb or not white, then we actually realize that there's lots of people that are still underrepresented, And you might actually be saying you're really ethnically diverse. But actually, when you look at the fine detail, you might not be so like I said, I haven't covered sort of disabilities carers care leaders, but you can see why whining participation is so important, not just because people are underrepresented, but actually, what is this going to mean? It actually goes on to me in the outcome for our patients is not as good. When we look at the leaders and lots of sort of royal colleges, for example, we see that there's not the same mix that there should be of diversity, and then that leads on to not that diverse, inclusive activity are the same, but it leads on often to not having that inclusive environment. So that's really, really important all the way from wherever you start out, but all the way to the top leaders. So I don't put many words on slide, so you've just got a variety of pictures of me from like when I was tiny to when I was a secondary school, and then it just prompt me to remember what I want to say, but so this is a thought. I'd just give my story at the beginning. But I grew up in a single parent household with my mom, and I was really, really sort of close to. My grandparents live 10 minutes away, my auntie and my cousins, who in the next photo and they only live five minutes away. And so it was a really tight knit community. But no one of my cousins started university. He dropped out quite early, but I didn't know anyone else that had gone to university didn't know much about it. I worked my way up through primary school, but the area I grew up it was a very, very diverse area in Bristol called Saint Paul. And I had lots of people from the African Caribbean backgrounds from the wind rush generation who came over to that area. So actually, growing up, I didn't really see myself as that different. To be honest, I sort of fit into the community that I was in the culture as well, and it wasn't until I got into secondary school where things started to change a little bit. I went to a secondary school about 25 minute walk from where I lived. Yeah, I've never been to that area before. It was I just knew my little like, 15 minute walk around my little area and how to get into town. And that was basically all I knew growing up. So I then went to secondary school, sort of felt a little bit more like, Oh, this is quite different, but I still sort of worked hard, like math. Science is, and that sort of navigated how I got through into thinking about medicine as a career. My auntie, as a healthcare assistant, worked in social care. My mom worked in retail, and it was just a partial. I wasn't sure what I wanted to do that maybe teaching, maybe medicine, and that was sort of my journey went to the same six form that was connected to my school, and I didn't get into medicine first time like quite a few people that don't have the right network and don't really know what's needed to get to the next step. So for me, I watched the healthcare assistant applied for a couple of jobs for a year, so I was in theaters. I wasn't able to do the scrub nurse side of things. I wasn't level three, but I was level, too. So I was opening up on the packaging, watching all the neurosurgery every day. And I did that for most of my gap here, and they managed to go to Portugal for four days at the end of my gap here. So that was my sort of holiday at the end of the tree. And then I went on to university after I applied the second time around. So that's the sort of a point of a few little bits of my journey. But there's lots of barriers really that are in place from not knowing the right people to give you advice on your personal statement. It might be it might be just to give you advice on the career, be able to get you work experience. There's so many barriers as we come through, and then you get into medical school and then like going back to the stats. You realize, Oh, there's not many people like me, and it can just feel like very alien situation to be in, and you might not have family to fall back on to talk about. Their experience is even though obviously there's a time difference, and it's quite different what it is now. But still you feel can feel quite isolated. An imposter syndrome can kick in quite a lot, especially at the early stage, so it becomes a lot about fitting in. And I remember so many different experience and barriers along the way. For example, I remember thinking I wanted to neurosurgery at one stage, and I spent a whole year in neurosurgery theaters. And then I did A B S C as well, my first graduation at Manchester and that was integrated. And then the neurosurgeon laughed at me when I asked, I told him I wanted to do a neurosurgery and spoke to him about it and he that he just laughed at me. And experiences like that sort of really sort of put you off, and it just feeds into that impostor syndrome. Feel like you don't belong. You're not good enough. But there's lots of experiences like that has happened along the way, not just to me, but lots of other people as well, and so navigated my way through sort of medical school with different leadership experiences. Some of them I didn't have much knowledge in, like I became the chair of a cheese and wine society. I knew nothing about cheese other than cheddar and mozzarella and pizza. And I knew nothing at all about wine since I refused to drink for like, most of I sort of teenage years, like older teenagers and early twenties, and I was just like alcohol is poisonous, so I'm not going to drink at all. And so I do not think about the two. And somehow I ended up in that leadership role, had a very good committee, and then we held lots of really, really big events, managed to make money that we put into the future events, and that was like my first leadership role. And then I moved into one in medicine. So I became team leader for first teaching lead for ST Doctors. Um, charity that looks to reduce knife crime within sort of went to sort of inner city schools when I went to Felton, Young offenders institutions as well, and so we're mainly just saying there's no safe place to stab people, and this is how you do basic first aid so that was one of my next leadership roles that I entered. And then I became team leader the year after doing that. And it was those roles that I realized I got a lot from as well as sort of doing my day to day job. I got a job, that medicine. It feels like a day job once you get into clinical years, really, and then balancing that with some leadership experiences and then w PMN sort of came quite a lot later down the line. So after I graduated, I knew that there was experiences mainly during medical school that I thought could really, really be improved. And I wasn't sure what I wanted to do to make sure that we could have that inclusive environment, that you can have those people, those networks So you can be the best version of you really and do what you want to do and not have someone stop you from getting there just because of your background. And so it was when I was working in Charleston, Westminster, as an F two that the idea sort of came to me that this is the time I'm going to do something. And it was the time of like I had been a couple of months into covitz, quite isolated. At that point in time. I saw it through myself into my any crazy rotor and also W p m n. And that's where it was sort of born. And it was just like me in a tiny little bedroom in London where we had, like no living room sharing with my flatmates at the time. And I was like, I'm going to create a website. I've never done one before. I'll see what platforms there are going to give it a go and hope for the best. So that's what I did. I created a logo, created a website, sent it out to a few students. I was teaching with bike medicine and give me some feedback on it. They did, and so I had to make it more personal, which is why it has, like photos of me on it now and then. I improved it and put some resources on there, and it was very, very quickly that it became quite popular. So I knew I needed a team of people and I didn't realize it was going to become such a big leadership role, To be honest, as it has become today with 120 volunteers with 600 members on the website, a few 1000 followers on social media and it's just sort of expanded so rapidly because we've had such a good team and I definitely haven't been a good leader throughout the whole journey. So much different things you learn. So taking us back to W P M n really? So this is our mission statement. What I decided to do to create our mission statement, vision, statement and call values is to have volunteers meeting where everyone came together on a zoom meeting broke off into lots of different groups. We are not hierarchical at all, so we have lots of people, a lot of different stages of training. What do we want our mission to be? And then we'll brainstorm, came together, had all of the different mission statement written down and then discussed what the main things we wanted from each and then we went away and had a meeting them with our national leads. And that's how we came up with this mission statement. So let you guys read that I don't like reading directly from my slides. Key points here was all stages of the medical journey, so not just access, but also within medicine and beyond and then also breaking down those barriers. So that leaves us quite nicely on to our vision statement where actually, we want those barriers to be eliminated, not just reduced. We actually don't want to see them at all. We know it's a big, big vision that we have, but we do really, honestly believe that's where we can get there. And that's how we're going to develop a diverse group of leaders, whether that's leaders for the GMC, which they really need right now, whether that's for looking at the health education England, where that's looking at the Royal College, is whether it's looking at your clinical directors, medical directors, so many leaders in medicine. And it just needs to be a lot more diverse. And I think with that in politics as well will need to have a fine balance of both of that to make our vision come true. So core values. So we decided on five of them. In the end, it's quite difficult as an organization to decide what's going to be your main core values. But advocacy is what we do. So whether that campaigns are already out there like the liver one H S Bursary and talking out on matters like that, or it might be other ones that we're looking at the moment into especially applications and the point system and how that works and what actually makes a good doctor, is it someone that's gonna closely audit? Or is it someone that may have been a carer for so many years and picked up different skills there? But what do they get points for? And then equity is a really important word for us, so it's not about just treating everyone the same. But actually it's looking at the needs of everyone within that group and deciding what what you're going to do differently. Which is also important, not just providing everything the same thing inclusivity. So that's another really, really key word for us, and it's making people feel like they do belong and making systemic changes so that each person does feel like they belong within, because I'm now in radiology. I've had people asking me is, Do you think you can have a family when you're in radiology or I've got this disability and I don't know if I'll be able to do radiology because of it, and I might not have the exact answers. But we should be as sort of the royal colleges in those instances should be looking how we're going to make this environment right for everyone. And we do create a lot of opportunities, mainly leadership we focus on. So we like to make sure that we have different national leads over different seeing different teams, and we have lots of deputies as well to give people that stepping stone, which is really, really important. It can be quite intimidating at the beginning, so that's really key for it organization and then we do buddy schemes that I think Ambien Olivia will talk about as well and that's making sure that everyone is developing personally and professionally whilst within our organization. So it's not just all about giving to widening participation that it's network, but it's about what each individual gets out of it and then community. So we know that the network is really, really key to success and being able to sort of be directed on the right path, knowing what steps are next in medicine, which is not always quite clear and part of the hidden curriculum as well. It's just making everything very, very so transparent, so you can see what's actually going on and what's the next step ahead for you. So here's our big team here. So I've got national leads I've put in the middle, but we've got lots of different teams that those leads oversee. And when I show you the bigger structure, you can see how it then you can become quite unmanageable. And that's why I was initially learning is how to sort of delegate, which is something I hadn't learned how to do very well at all. Would usually take everything on for myself that was really key and learning to have. I think the best way that I've learned to have is 1 to 1 meeting I find quite useful with the national leads, dropping into their team meetings occasionally as well, and just finding out which structure works for your leadership style, I think, and it's realizing sometimes you have to change your leadership style, which can be difficult, but you can learn so much from it. So that sort of thing that I've been working on and this sort of being in this role myself as CEO is really challenged me in my leadership role, but it's definitely improved it significantly. So I never thought I'd be able to sort of lead a team this big. But it's thanks to lots of the national leads and the regional reps and local reps and everyone within W p m n. So that's a lot of talking from me. So I'm going to hand over to an MRI. Hi. Thank you, J for have come on the screen. I can't really tell, is it? Can you hear me? Okay. Perfect. Thank you. J for um So I'm and green. I'm a GP trainee based in London. And I'm the current chair of W p m n. Um, So I'm going to be talking about our current projects and collaborations. Um, so we'll start with our projects. Um, in terms of the work that we do, we have a multi pronged strategy to cover lots of bases. We base our work on a collective experience on the needs of WP students and doctors. Um, so we'll start with content, and we create a lot of our own content. We have regular blogs, everyone by medical students and doctors to disseminate information. We have a YouTube channel with regular content, and we're hoping to start a podcast very soon. Um, to make that information as accessible as possible. We have twice monthly virtual events, and they take the form of lectures usually covering topics that W P. Students and doctors might not typically have access to, like careers. That may be a bit more niche, and opportunities that maybe are usually a bit less accessible were also running a free conference in July that Olivia will be able to give you more information about. We're also involved in a lot of research that j deleted to. We do some of our own research, and we also support other organizations like the Academy of Royal College. Is the BMJ, the GMC with some of their work as well? Um, and we do a lot of collaboration generally with external organizations, and that's because we think collaboration is really important and kiwi don't want to replicate the great work that everyone else is doing. We want to be able to support one another, and that's also the basis of our conference. Um, we have over 100 volunteers and 600 members, so we're a really big resource in ourselves, and we can provide a lot of support to other organizations as well. Um, we believe mentoring is really important as well within healthcare and to develop healthcare leaders. Um, and sometimes WP students and doctors, especially, don't have access to the same networks and opportunities as non WP doctors and students. Um, so we have a lot of mentoring within W P M n and within the projects that we work on externally as well. So I'll go through a bit of a bit more about the projects in turn. So before I became W PMN chair, I was the events officer for W. P. M. And for a year and a half, um, so the events are kind of like my baby and a really proud parent for how much they've expanded and how well they're doing at the moment. Um, so we organized twice monthly lectures. Um, we've got to really great series on at the moment. Um, and there's an example of each of the screen. Um, the first is a W p women in surgery series in which we showcase a female surgeon, um, from an underrepresented background, whether that's LGBTQ plus socioeconomic, underrepresented ethnic group or religious group really keen for intersectional identities to be acknowledged with W. P. M N and celebrated. And we do that in this series. And we've had some really, really great speakers, including, including Ms Samantha Troughs. And she was the first black female orthopedic surgeon in the UK So very inspirational. Um, our second series is called W P M and welcomes, and that's primarily they're actually disseminate information about medical careers and opportunities and topics, um, that are relevant to WP students and doctors, um, to help them thrive in their careers. And again, that's that's slightly more nation knowledge. Sometimes it's not available. Also, um, you have to do a lot of research yourself to find out a bit more about it. We have the networks in place, and so we've done one an expedition medicine, humanitarian medicine, working abroad, and some of those talks have had over 900 sign ups. They're really popular and really in demand amongst WP cohorts, Um, and usually these kind of lectures. If you do find them online from other organizations, they typically cost money, which is one of the barriers faced by WP doctors. So we're really keen on making that information more widely accessible by providing it for free. Um, after the events, we also put them on our YouTube channel again. Um, so students and doctors can watch them again. Or if they weren't able to attend the event, they can access them as well. Um, we have free resources. Um, next slide, please. We have free resources, which include blogs, a unique personal statement. Bank, which is mainly the anonymous personal statement of our volunteers and mine is somewhere in the mix, which is very crunchy, but it's anonymous. It's okay, um, and are YouTube channel. Um, the content is written by students and doctors for students and doctors, so it covers a lot of relevant topics and areas like imposter syndrome, the academic foundation program, a lot of other topics that students and doctors will find useful. Um, we've had over 2.5 1000 reads and are blogs, and we get several 100 klicks on our website every month. So it's a really big resource. And I wouldn't encourage you to direct any, um, students and doctors to the platform. Um, in terms of research and advocacy, um, we have a national task force, and they carry out national research that looks into the barrier space by WP students and doctors. Um, we also support external organizations like the GMC, the BMJ, the Academy of Royal College. Is that the report on the screen that we've helped with with some of their w p work? Um, and we support and push for national campaigns such as the availability of desegregated data, um, within medicine and, um, the livable NHS Bursary campaign. We've been supporting that, and we'll have, um, some of the campaign Is there our conference in July as well? To talk a bit more about that. Promote that, and push that, um, with institutions within medicine moving onto mentoring. Um, the value of a good mentor really can't be overstated. I'm coming into medical school. I was supported by a mentor from the Social Mobility Foundation, and 10 years on, I'm still super, super grateful for the support that my mentor gave me. Um And so we work with the Social Mobility Foundation. Um, next slide, please. Um, and we provide workshops for their twenties and the undergraduate medics. Some of our volunteers also volunteer for the SMF as mentors, and I've entered for them for the last six years. Now we also believe mentoring and supporting WP students shouldn't just disappear once they've arrived at medical school. Um, and that's why we work with the Royal College is to establish mentoring projects aimed at medical students and doctors. So as jaded mentioned, usually there is a fair bit of support now available for aspiring students from WP backgrounds. Um, if they can access it. But once they get to medical school, that support kind of just completely disappears, and those needs aren't really acknowledged. Um, so that's why we've been really keen to work with the Royal College is to create more support for W P students and doctors. So we've got a collaboration with the Royal College of Radiologists in the form of a mentoring program called Rad Rich, and that focuses on mentoring final year students from W backgrounds, um, to provide them with the support, um and, um, information that they require to access careers in radiology and oncology. We've done a pilot which was really successful, and we're transitioning to our next next sort of cohort. Um, and we're also in the process of having conversations with multiple other Royal College is also very interested in, um, having a similar project, um, to improve diversity inclusion within their cohort. Um, we also have a mentor ourselves, Um, as an organization were on the HLA Ideas incubator program and receive many guidance on how to lead and structure organization like a jade mentioned. We've grown exponentially since we were founded two years ago. So, um, it's been quite useful to get support from an external organization about how to structure the work that we do have the structure of the volunteers and sort of the layout of the organization. So that's been really invaluable. Um, we also have a lot of informal mentoring internally at W. P m n. We have a buddy scheme where we pair, uh, medical students and doctors within our organization. So our organization has, like I mentioned 100 20 volunteers, and they're a mix of medical students across the years, and then doctors across their careers as well, primarily from WP background. And so there's a scheme where we pair of the medical students or early career doctors with someone later on in their career. Um, just to get that sort of internal support and you can sort of maybe look at that position, the position that someone is in within W P M N and find out more about that as well. Um, as a charitable organization, we have board meetings and were keen to have students come along to the board meeting. So our next board meeting we're going to advertise to the medical students they can shadow and get some board experience, and we will be recruiting medical students later in the year internally, to our board. They can get that trustee and leadership experience as well. Um, we also have some ongoing recruitment because we have so many volunteers throughout the year, and people with what we notice is that people change positions and they as they develop more leadership experience, they might go from being, for example, like a deputy to a national lead to another position. Um, and it's really inspiring to see how everyone's developing their own skill set and then the similar for me, I was the events leading the National League, um, committee and I. So I'm now the current chair, and I'm overseeing the trustees. Um, so it's definitely a two way relationship with in W PMN. We want everyone who volunteers with us to leave with something in terms of a skillset in terms of leadership skills for their portfolio for their CVS, Um, so that they really benefit from having given their time to widen participation. Um, and we think that's really a major part of our responsibility as a W P healthcare organization and the major part of our ethos. Um, so that's pretty much everything that I was going to cover. Um, but I just got a final slide with some of the organizations that we have collaborated with over the last two years. Um, and we do really great work with them, and I'm looking forward to working with FMLN and this kind of event in the future as well. Um, I'll hand over to Olivia to talk more about our conference. Thanks and green. So I'm Olivia. I'm actually currently low coming as an S h O. Um and Brooks. But I am starting. I m t in the east of England from August. I'm very excited about that. Um, so this year, I've been working with in the events team. So, um, and you mentioned a W p M M welcome series. So I've been helping with within the team to run those events, and that's been very rewarding for me. So I'm just going to be talking about the W PMN conference. So this is our first ever conference. It's extremely exciting. Um, we have agreed as a as a group that the theme for this year will be creating change together, which I think really does resound with some of the core values that Jade spoke about earlier. So, uh, conference this year will be a one day event, and it will be on the ninth of July. Um, and it will be a hybrid event. And so the idea of that is that it will allow for in person, face to face kind of connection, but also if if people aren't able to travel to Lester University, where we're where we're holding it, and they will be able to also access it online via a platform called Medal. So the idea is that it's more inclusive and, uh, prevents the barrier of travel and and funding for for staying over in a location. So the exciting, another exciting component of it is that we have three competitions that were running. So we have a multimedia competition. Um, and that could be any sort of artwork, any sort of photography or anything like that, which I think is a great idea. I haven't actually seen that and any other conference is. So I think that's a great opportunity for us medics or medical students or aspiring medics To exercise and flex are creative muscles. Um, so we've got also an essay competition, um, regarding the role that diversity plays in medicine in our current times, which I think is very topical. And then we also have a poster competition. Um, well, it's quite broad, really. So anything relating to widening participation in medicine and the deadline for all of these is coming up soon. So if you have anyone who might be interested in this will be a national conference, so it's an opportunity to get involved and the those that perform best judge to be the best, will be invited to to kind of show their works at our conference, and so that's a huge opportunity and and it should not be missed. And there's something for everyone, and I think that's the main thing. So moving onto our future ventures just really briefly because, actually, I think and Green has actually touched on quite a lot of this. So just to say that these are just some things that we picked up. This is by no means an exhaustive list, but I think, really, our future adventures, um, include working with other charities that are available out there not to almost duplicate the work that's been done but almost two synergistically work together and collaborate to support aspiring students and doctors through throughout their career. Um, and then also, as Ambien mentioned mentorship, the future goal is to have mentorship programs with all rural colleges. Um, tha kind of help final year medical students find their footing early on, and then Ambien also mentioned, um, we are hoping to start a podcast. So, um, I personally found that when I was a student in London, I was commuting all the time, and I found that a great way to absorb information and also be entertained was through the world of podcasts. And the other benefit about podcast is that it is free and it is accessible to everybody. There are so many different platforms, so it is really an accessible things that we could do. So I think the idea that we have so far, which is very exciting, is to start off with almost introducing W PMN to the world through the eyes of its members and really just showing the diversity within our organization, um, and highlighting that and celebrating it. And then we would hope to move on to kind of smaller series. So perhaps what's been suggested within our within our meetings have been, um, tips or things that I wish I'd known as an F one just to support and try and bring that in alongside new starter F one so that perhaps the vision would be if they're commuting to their new placement, perhaps driving, perhaps on the tube. They could listen to this and find some comfort in the fact that many generations of doctors before them have also gone through exactly the same. First, a jitters and the same imposter syndrome as I know I certainly had when I started on the ward's. Another idea that came up from our National Volunteers meeting, where we brainstorm ideas was the idea of a W, P. M and notice board of sorts. So again with sharing opportunities that are out there, for example, work experience locations or organizations that are very invested in promoting work experience schemes that are for W P students in particular. Because I know that is something that W p students can really struggle to to find. Um, and you know, all sorts of things on the along those lines just to make sure that all opportunities across the network are shared so that everybody you know doesn't have any. Everyone has the opportunity and equal opportunity to experience these opportunities. So with regards to the final point So the idea is to have regular YouTube videos. Um, now, these could be across different themes. I know that we have a lot of our lectures currently uploaded, but perhaps if we had a different streams so different, um, playlists. Um, the idea is to have, um, maybe junior doctors a day in the life or a medical students a day in the life and then also have some educational instructional videos and also have a stream that's to do with well being and supporting medical students, particularly in times for exams, or how to maneuver placement and things like that. So, um, something for everybody and something to again build that community. Um, that is very inclusive. Um, and welcoming. So that's for me. Yeah, that's just a few references at the at the end. But you can You can send you any links of specific stats or anything that you want to come back to. And we're on Twitter, as at W P. Medics network is probably one of the easiest ways to get in contact with us. Oh, wow. Wow. So J is Olivia and, um, And again, thank you. So so much for that really quite inspiring journey of how you were founded and the work that you're doing. Um, if anyone has any questions, please, when you pop them in the chat. Um, Ramirez got one. But I just want to say thank you so much. Honestly, it was one of the most inspiring stories I've heard in a long time and and and it's It's amazing, isn't it, that it's taken this long to that? We actually, we've known about the statistic really for quite a long time. But we aren't. We haven't really done a lot about it and and and and apart from, you know, and you guys are really in that space now, where you're really trying to kind of address this. I mean, I went to a state school myself. I know how difficult it is to get that work experience and get your personal statement in a position to be able to even go to medical school. And then I know how difficult it is when you get to medical school, how much of an imposter you feel when every other person knows each other and went to largely the same private schools. So can you Can you talk a bit about maybe, why you think it's taken this long? Why hasn't this area been addressed before? Which have you got any thoughts on that? I think often people find discussions around the topics like this quite difficult to actually have an open conversation about, and often it seems like something quite easy to hide behind and just sticking to how it's always been. It's fine, especially if it's worked for a certain group of people. Then it might be well, it's worked for us if someone else from a different background to work harder than it will be the same and it's not that understanding of the barriers that are in place. I also think it's become quite fashionable over the last probably two years to actually talk about diversity, and I think that's why we've seen lots of different things popping up and organizations wanting to get involved with in diversity. And I think that's quite controversial or are they just doing it because it's what everyone's doing, what they should be doing, rather than actually being deeply invested in the diversity inclusion. But I think for organizations like ourselves, it's the right opportunity to feed off of these organizations so we can actually get them involved with it, but then teach them and show them what added value, diversity and inclusion has, especially within medicine, which I think some people actually really do fail to understand. I don't know if you have any other thoughts and Green Olivia. I think It also sort of highlights the importance of diverse leadership because the leaders at the top of the ones making the decisions about sort of health care policy, medical school policy and so if they're not former, diverse background themselves, then you're not gonna get diverse Medics and aspiring current medical students and doctors. Um, and that's one of the things that we're working on. And that's why it's so great to be here today because we think the NHS does need more diverse leadership. Um, and from a variety of backgrounds, Yeah, I'd echo everything that's been said before, but I wonder whether, um, also the fact that Cove id, um came along and turned everything upside down and really highlighted the inequality within healthcare itself. And also, um, you know, the B m a be a m e community. It really highlighted the need to support diversity. No, I mean, I mean, yeah, I agree with all that what you said and it's and it's such an important area isn't I mean we have. So we we have set up this year and inclusivity and diversity work stream. Um, so thank you so much for coming and talking about it because I think together we can hopefully tackle this and and this is no more obvious that a leadership level, isn't it? As you as you mentioned, like really, When you look at the top of the NHS, it is not. It does not represent its workforce, all the population that we serve at all. And that and we have to recognize that that is a problem. Um, I mean, I can't honestly believe what you've achieved in such a short space of time, and it probably is one of the finest examples of the leadership story. Kind of. I've heard, um, in a in a really long time as well. And Sara in the chat says, so inspiring. You've achieved so much. But how did you find the courage to start? Yeah, I think for me it was The courage came from all the frustrations I had along the journey, and it was saying that it was still being replicated that people like seven years down the line and things haven't changed as much as I would have hoped. And things have changed. Like with access to medicine, more contextual offers, and there's more thought into sort of what people need to get into medical school and actually three a day or two ways and a star is not what makes someone the best doctor like, Do you really need chemistry, a star or a To be a great doctor? You really don't. And so I think it's a better. There's more understanding. But I was still really frustrated when speaking to people like I go back to speak to my primary school and secondary school like my primary school still says they haven't met a real doctor. We've been talking about doctors and nurses careers, and I'm like, I'll come back every so often to stuff off in And I did talk to my sixth form and when you are still hearing stories of people struggling with the same things, I struggle and I'm like, How much have things changed that we're going in the right direction, but not at the right rate? And I think that's what sort of fuelled me to keep going at this and sort of created. But it was very quickly having a big team on board to help me do what I I wanted to do and then also expand the vision of W PMN to make it even broader. And I think if it was just like me on my own, my goals wouldn't have been as big. But when you get that team and those people that really are really passionate about what you want to do, that vision then becomes bigger and then you actually can see yourself getting there. So that's all the motivation that's come for me. Honestly, it's just it's really you are incredibly inspiring. I mean, 100 volunteers 600 members in two years is just an unbelievable achievement. Um, Ramin a in the chat says, um, what are your thoughts on the thoughts on their health Education England Apprenticeship model for medical school? Because obviously, this has been something that's been discussed for a while now. Are there other ways that you can train doctors? Is it that everybody needs to go to medical school? What are your thoughts on that? Personally, I think I have mixed feelings about it, but probably need to sort of do even more reading about it. But I'm just a bit concerned if you have a different pathway that when you will then have two people that have gone through different pathways working together in a hospital is one avenue going to be looked down upon. And how are they going to work together and see? Sort of like not one is better than the other like Is it still going to be seen as if you go to university for five or six years that you are the better doctor, for example? And that's the sort of thing I worry about because with the Apprentice ship model, it does have a better sort of accessibility for people from W P backgrounds. But then I don't want them to be like the second class doctors, if you see what I mean. So it's it's great to increase access and think about how we do it, but it's just looking long term. If we think it would be beneficial, I think it's quite hard to know until you sort of trialed it. So it's quite difficult to think what might be the best route, so I'm not 100% sold on it, but I can see that it would increase the amount of doctors that would enter medicine just following on from what you just said. I think there's no shortage of, like talent amongst WPS firing students. I think it's just recognizing that talent at, like the interview stage when they apply to medical school. Short listing stage. A lot of candidates get wiped out at that point because they're not as prepared. Um, as people may be more for more privileged background. You've got that sort of final shine from all the practicing that they've done. Um, so I suppose it's just maybe having a look at that process as well. Um, who's interviewing the medical students? What are they looking at? Are those the correct things to be assessing? Um, does that actually make you a good doctor? Like you pointed out? Uh, and then taking into consideration the barriers that people have faced from WP backgrounds, socioeconomic and others? Um, when making offers? Um, I think that's also important. No, I'm absolutely inclined to agree with you. It's about allowing people to access the same pathway, isn't it? Not creating a different one. Um, it's about giving people the same opportunities. Um, actually, Megan has a great question in the chat because he kind of talked about how you going to school and you've got this absolutely fantastic mentor system. Um, and so she she asks, How do you find interacting with the education schooling system in the UK with the work that you've been doing? Um, is this something that quite receptive of, um, And then secondly, she says, At what point did you realize that you needed external advice and guidance with regards to managing the organization? So they're two separate questions. But first of all, what about interacting with schools? Has this been something they've really sort of kind of wrapped up, or is this something been quite resistant to? And with schools, it has been something they've mapped out quite a lot, and it's mainly our local reps and some of our regional reps that do most of that sort of work, and they would work with some of their one societies as well and see which the schools in the area I think what we struggle with still as an organization, is to reach the cold spots. So the areas where they might be in between like a couple of medical schools or places like North Wales, like if you're not in South Wales, then it becomes quite difficult to access, even though there's now a new medical school as well in North Wales. So it's just thinking about which schools that we want to reach out to. Specifically, I think it's something that we can continue to progress with. But once we say like we've got a speaker, schools seem to be really, really happy and keen to have us on board to do talks. Just adding to that as well, like a lot of W P work tends to be very London centric, and so we're quite keen on making sure that we cover the whole of the UK as much as we can. So we've got wraps across Scotland. Well, um, Northern Ireland previously and our conference is based on the university of last year, so we're in the middle and intentionally so we're trying to move away from sort of all the support of the South, gets to make sure the other regions also get support. The students in those areas have guidance and sort of role models as well. Yeah, just yeah about No, that's really interesting. Isn't because when we we often think about diverse like so ethnic diversity don't racial diversity is the biggest barrier. But actually there's, you know, there's a massive difference between the education system in rural and urban areas, and you often forget about these sort of rural coastal areas where where people really have less opportunities really interesting. And then, um, lots of the questions coming through. Lots of one's about about leadership that I that I might come back to, but I wanted to ask. It's very topical at the moment. I wanted to ask about the livable Bursary because we've talked about kind of the barriers to get into medical school. But then we've more. Recently, there's been a very hot topic topic about actually the problems at university and the difficulty that W p students face. Has anybody got any more thoughts on that? Um, yeah. I think that the energy level, your birthday is one that we've been supporting because I think most, like most of us, can resonate with that campaign because it affected us personally. As I remember when I was in medical school, I had to get a loan just to finish my final year of medical school because I just ran out of money. It wasn't enough money to live off, Um, and to be able to finish the do my elective pay for all these sort of sign of fees when you start as an F one, which people don't take into consideration. Um, I had to take out a loan for my aunt. My aunt. She was very nice and gave me some money, but it took me almost a year to pay that money off. And so it really does highlight that that wt students don't have enough funding. Um, and the fact that it's still an ongoing problem now, um just shows how slow things change. And that's why we're so, um yeah, so keen to get involved with that project. And, um, the medical students that spearheaded that campaign are going to be talking our conference in July as well to talk about sort of their lived experience and why they started that campaign and why it's so important to get some sort of coverage national courage to continue to push for it, because I think they've got the coverage, some of the coverage. But change isn't quite being made at the moment. No, that's so, so interesting to here and it's It's a problem that you don't realize exists until it affects you, isn't it? So it's about it. We all need to kind of take an interest in this, and regardless of whether it directly affects us, we need to kind of, you know, play a part in trying to kind of solve this problem because it really does create barriers. Um, in terms of your what are your thoughts on? I mean, you're doing obviously a fantastic job giving people in your organization the most brilliant leadership experience. Um, quite a junior level, really, which will obviously feed in higher up the chain. How do you think we improve diversity at the top? How is it we can do that? A leadership level? I think part of it is probably what Ambien mentioned earlier is really looking at how we interview who's on the interview panel. I think that makes a really, really big difference, like, you know, even just having like someone's like name can change like if they're going to get employed or someone that steps into into like for an interview just on their appearance alone. There can be some factors that some people within the interview panel are just going to be like, No, that's not who we want in our organization. And then what the problem is, I still don't know how we solve it is I think we see a lot in medicine is that when there's a consultant job, for example, everyone in the department knows who's going to get that consultant Job is open to everyone, but everyone knows who's going to get that consultant job and that, well, that happens, a consultant level that happens at the higher leadership levels as well. So how do we stop the friends of friends or the ones that socialized together from getting those jobs? I still don't know what the answer is to that. Other than partly will be the end of the panel that you have, but I don't know how we stopped that. To be honest, it's quite difficult, so I would agree with what they said. I'd also add to that, but I guess one thing the W P M. N is doing in terms of, um, offering leadership opportunities, people from WP background is almost empowering, Um, all the members to have experience in it in the first place because it's difficult to get leadership experience. You're always going to shy away from it if you don't think it's for you. Um, and again w PMN have really supportive of, you know, doctors or students at all levels, taking on those roles and having stuff to talk about even so, as they progress. So I guess if you think about it getting onto leadership programs, you often have to say, Well, why? What do you what led you to here and have something to talk about? And actually it W P M W PMN almost allows that first rung onto the ladder so that so you can get your foot in the door and actually garner some experience that then you can use to propel you and springboard you on words. And I think it's also like I was saying, Um, you know everyone some you know often it's friends of friends or whatever, but I think it's really just empowering people from WP backgrounds to know that they are. They are worthwhile and they are able to go for those positions and to kind of change the system in that sense, no totally agree with you and we talked about this recently, actually, on our on our last webinar webinar, which is about leadership fellowships and how you get that fellowship. And then we talked about the fact that opportunities lead to opportunities and often you just need 1 ft on the ladder and off you go. And this what you've created here is just a fantastic example of how anybody can get involved and really just start that journey. Um, and also you just set kind of the trend, really, that this is possible. There's no barriers to this, and and And if you work hard, you can achieve unbelievable things. So moving on to sort of lead more specific leadership questions. Then, um, Megan asked. At what point did you realize that you needed external advice and guidance with managing the organization? So I guess Jade, that's for you. Yeah, I think it was pretty pretty early on, to be honest, it was remember starting the organization, and within three weeks, I think it's three weeks. We had quite a few people on the website already, and I just had to put our adverts myself, and I did all the recruitment myself for a team So we had a team of eight of that in the national committee, which is what I first recruited, and that in itself was just like, I don't know how to do all of this Recruitment like this is me. I'm really bad at technology, even though I'm doing radiology. So I'm using Google docs and everything and Google forms to fill in. And I was just like, trying to organize everything. And I think from that early stage, I was like, This is going to get probably bigger than I thought initially, quite soon on. So after we had the national committee together, I think that's when we started reaching out to other organizations. And that's how I initially got the external support. So the medical schools counsel was one of the early organizations I reached out to, and they're still like to people on the medical schools counsel that I would sort of bounce questions off now every now and again, and that was like mainly leadership questions and things that I would ask them, and then they would usually get back to me quite quickly, which is quite nice. So a lot of it was quite informal But it was those that new a little bit, and I'd introduce W P M N. And they were really, really keen on it. And then through some of the and greens contacts as well. Um, like the medical colleges, the Academy of the medical royal Colleges, there's like they've been really, really helpful to us. And it's bouncing ideas, letting them know what we're doing. And they're like, Well, have you thought about this and often with me? It's like, No, I haven't thought about this. Have you thought about funding? I don't know anything about, like, funding and sponsorship. So there's been lots of people to point me in those sort of directions of what we need to do to get on to like the ladder so we can actually expand. Because if you expand too quickly and you don't have the fun and the that structure in place, then it becomes quite challenging. And then it was quite recently sort of last year that we joined the ideas, and then that was to the main point of that. Really, for us was to meet the other organizations and learn from those external organization because you learn from everyone's failures. They learn from your failures and then hopefully you all just sort of grow together and that incubator scheme that they have. So that was also really important, and we joined them about a year into our sort of journey as W PMN together. I think that's been the main things, I think quite recently as well. I I just started using LinkedIn, make similar time when I started W. P. M. And just to reach out to more people. And I found it an amazing resource to get in touch with people. I didn't think it would be as good as it was like, I don't really like social media, but I use it to amplify the voice of W, P R N and everything and what and what we do. But through LinkedIn and we managed to get our first sponsor through LinkedIn. I've managed to get someone to coach me for free, and I, like, didn't realize what how coaching can actually improve so much. What you're doing and give you a bit more direction give you some someone to feed back to, and it gives you that responsibility and it helps me to progress a much quicker rate. So that's been really, really good. And it's just like I'll give you some free, um, coaching lessons because I know that you're like, I love W P m n and what you're doing and I can see that it can grow so much. And so since I've met with the coaches, like three times I've been able to meet with Bristol City Council, who's going to be helping us out with some work? And it's just sort of fed on through lots of different avenues for some of the colleges in Cambridge. So it's just been pretty amazing. But it's really that you need to reach out. I think early into external people, because you're just going to learn from them. And it doesn't matter if you see them as like, really, really senior or they might be quite junior in that leadership journey, but actually bouncing ideas off of people learning from people at all different stages, so valuable. It's just it's just so fantastic what you've achieved. Did you ever expect it? I mean, I mean I mean Olivia and and and you've been a little while, but Jade in particular to start with. Did you ever expect it to become this big? Did you ever expected to take off like it did? Definitely not this quickly. Definitely not this quickly. So I think I was thinking well, have, like, slowly introduce reps to a few medical schools. And it would be nice if we got to meet up once and we'll all be like one little room and meet everyone. And then it just did take off quite quite quickly, so that was very unexpected. But I think that's the difficulty that I then had with the leadership. Because I was like, How do we run all of these different teams? Then you have so many different people coming up with such great ideas, and you're like, Actually, no, we can't do all of this at once. We actually have to take our time, take some steppingstones and see what's the best avenue to go down. And that's when it started to sort of push me to think of How do you want to run an organization? And then that's when we realized we needed Ambien is Charlie and has been in that we can, pretty much from the start in the events role. But then I realized that I couldn't juggle like the strategy of W P M N in the direction of W PMN whilst overseeing all the day to day activities in all of the different teams, which is why we split the roles. So we had an MRI in his chair and then me a CEO so I can oversee the day to day activities. Meet with all the national leads, 1 to 1, and let's see what's going on. Whereas now we have a membrane having that, it's good to have another person to, like bounce ideas of actually overseeing the trustee and the board so we can actually start to develop and see what our impact is and measure our impact, which is really important for growth. I mean, it's a full time job. It's like it's like the clinical element of training is just an add on, isn't it to all of this? But I mean, you obviously saw something great in this, Which is why which you obviously came on board really early on. But what do you think has been the key to success of your organization so far? Um, I think I was really inspired by James Vision at the beginning. Um, JJ did her recruitment when it was just Jade and I joined as soon as I saw the ad for it because I think I was being from a W P background, I kind of I'm drawn towards other WP doctors and students because we've had sort of shared issues across medical school and, uh, in our early careers and then her vision for, like, a network to bring together W P students and doctors definitely resonate. But what I wanted to have existed when I was in medical school myself. Um, I think when I first joined, I didn't realize how big the organization would become, like, similar to date, how quickly it would grow and how much of a leadership role I would be in. Um, so I joined these events, officer, and then soon we needed to recruit an events team. And then I became leader of the events team and then realized actually a bigger to sort of the market, the roles and have a chair. And then I printed that. And, um, it's been a massive like learning curve, and I've definitely learned so much from being part of W P M N. And it's definitely been like a massive honor to see it go and be part of that growth. Oh, it makes. It's almost making me emotional honestly, because it's just it's just so it's so it's such a brilliant, um, important topic that we all just need to get behind. And you guys have done this in your spare time. You're you know, it's completely non profit, not not for profit. And it's just I just you know, you just are really inspiring examples of what leadership truly is and how junior doctors can get involved in leadership and lead, you know, from the bottom up, to be honest. And it's not something that it doesn't need a hierarchy, it doesn't need time. It just needs somebody with passion, drive and determination. But Olivia, you've recently taken on events lead. Is that right? The events lead your the event. Not even so. I joined W P M n maybe seven months ago. Not that long ago, I I mean, I really joined just because I really I believe that, you know, I believe in the ethos of w mm, for one. But I really am into education. So I really wanted to join the events team, um, and kind of share the resources out there. I mean, I was a clinical teaching fellow last year, and it allowed me to get to know so many different medical students and in in with teaching, you also hear about the pastoral elements within the pastoral care of students. You kind of hear about the background and their struggles and there barriers that they face getting into university. And I think that really resonated with me and again, kind of fuel to the fire to really get involved and try and support, um, equal dissemination of information and joining a network where you can share, um, you know, information and opportunities that are out there and even if you can yourself provide some comfort, someone else or some support or some reassurance to someone else, um, it's often quite easy to think. Oh, you know, it's just me. I'm not. I'm not the consultant yet, but actually the there's always there's always things that you can share. And there are things that I've learned from people in the Events team who are currently medical students And so it really is, Uh, as J was saying, a flat hierarchy, not just in terms of the organization W P M m, but also just realizing that you can learn a lot from other people. Learn a lot from talking to other people about their own experiences. And I think, um, it just it makes me hopeful for a more diverse and inclusive NHS, to be honest, so I think really so I'm not the events officer as such, but I don't really need to be because, I mean, I can get involved to whatever degree I want to, and I'm really excited that I'm going to be the in person lied at the conference as well, so I'll be heavily involved in that. So I'm very excited that and have you got have you? Have you got any sort of top tips then, for anybody that sort of find themselves in a leadership role and kind of organizing things, organizing a conference and have you got any top tips that you would share? Um, honestly, I think it's just surround yourself with really good and supportive people that you can bounce ideas off. I mean and green as the chair and also my ex events officer. Like supervise, if you will. Is that if it were really were a hierarchal kind of situation like that? Um, you know, is, I think just having someone to bounce ideas off. And, um, I think having obviously it's not ideal in Covic having kind of a zoom platform, but we're really getting used to it. And I think within the events team, for sure, we've built up like a really great camaraderie. And when we have events meetings, often they sort of descended to just a few conversations about what we've been up to. And it's really nice. It feels like a community. It feels more than just a team, Um, and so I think that helps us to really work well together. Honestly, that's fine. That's that's fantastic. And it's so it's so good to hear. And so other leadership, the other tips, then So, jade, I mean straight. What tips have you picked up like, What advice would you give to anybody who sort of I mean, I doubt people will find themselves in your position very often, but if they were to find yourself in your position you're setting up this new organization, What top tips have you got? I would say, definitely create a timeline. I think it's quite nice for you to have your own goals and set small goals as well as Big One, because it's nice when you've achieved those little ones and it gives you a little bit more sort of confidence that you can get to the next hurdle that you want to get to. I think that's really, really important. And I think similar to then what Olivia said is making sure that you surround yourself with people that you're going to sort of synergize with and also a mix of people. So you want the really confident people that are just going to say no, that's a bad idea. I love that. I need someone to tell me like this is the direction they think we should go in. But then you also need those introverts and other people on the team as well. It's really, really important and also learning how you get the best from individuals on the team. How do you approach the situation when you're having team meetings learning to make sure they finish on time that's so important and so keep people have got places to go and things to do, but then also creating that community. I think it's very, very vital from very early stages is having that not just knowing each other on that sort of level. This person does this. This person has this been going to understand and learn different things about people on your team is really, really, really key. And I think lastly is learning to say no, That's a really, really big one, which I was terrible at. But you can't say yes to everything. And it's learning to prioritize what you're going to say yes to What are you going to get something from as well when you do it like I'm asked to do quite a few different talks, and some of them are about things I have no idea about. On LinkedIn, especially like some medical students, like emailed me and said, Can you do a talk on screening for bowel cancer and the radiology side of things? And I'm like, I'm a radiology s t two? I don't think this is my area of expertise, but if you want me to do something like WP based or these are this is the website let me know, but and directed them to a few other people. That might be more helpful, but it's really learning to say no. But then on the other side of that, don't say no to all of the things that scare you because you have to sort of push yourself occasionally, even if you're like I did the Radiology New Consultants day I went. I was invited to speak about red Reach, which we had set up, and it was just 10 minutes. But it was the president of the Royal Culture radiologist Genet doing 10 minutes on the double like welcome the college Welcome to talk. And it was I started off with the 10 minutes as well. I was sharing a slot, and I was really, really nervous. Everyone in the room was a new consultant, so it was a room like 60 people, and it was my first in person talks since, like Coated. So there's been a couple of years, and I was like, I stood up there at the front to tell my story and talk about like radiology oncology, and I was just like I'm in a room full of like consultants trying to, like, get this message across, so that was quite intimidating. But then after I did it, I felt really good. And I was like, That's a good thing for me to push myself to do because I will improve with these sort of in person talks that we're doing. But also it's just building on the skills. So it's been like so many different skills that I've managed to develop, whether that was one of the research papers that I wrote with about radiology oncology as well. And it's pushing myself in lots of different directions, which will hopefully help for the future as well. Oh, absolutely, absolutely. I hope they gave you a standing ovation at the end of that talk because they should do, um, and so that's not That's not least to you in terms of your leadership tips or tip top tips in terms of just doing kind of such an important job outside of medicine, you know, in addition to medicine but related. But what topics have you picked up along the way? I think one of the things that I think it's really important to me is, and I'm actually an introvert, and I think recognizing that I can be a leader and I can take on these roles as an introvert and also my introversion has positive qualities that contribute to good leadership. I think naturally when people think about leaders is usually extroverted, super, super confident. But I think introverted leaders have something to bring to the table as well. I think recognizing the importance of that and feeling confident in that has been something that I've developed reverse of my time in W p m n. Um, In terms of personal tips, I think learning teachers delegate more, Um, and as they say, no. So you're kind of like learning to distribute tasks. Um, and and having a great team makes it really easy. Um, but just learning the skill of doing that, um, has been something that I've developed as well, um, and then just like generally like time management and just sort of balancing everything and figuring out what I'm going to prioritize. Um, So just yeah, generic things, but just getting a bit better at it, I suppose. Um, yeah, I think those would be the main things. I mean, yeah, I can imagine time management skills are some of the best skills that you guys have learned. Um, honestly, Amazing. So last but not least then I just want to move on to my final thing is what can we do that So someone in my position as, um, you know, a junior doctor who's maybe who's who's maybe not. I can't admit it to be from from the WB background. But what can we do to help with this short fall in on our current work, work force, how can and what can lead And then so right at the bottom, what can we do but also sort of people in those in a leadership position, What can they do and what do they need to do to address this? Yes, I think maybe I'm taking it from the last question you asked. But I guess from a leadership point of view is firstly, everyone needs to recognize of the value of diversity and actually actively want to do something about it. Otherwise, it will just be lots of like reports with this is what we should do. This is what we should do and then nothing actually gets done. And then I think we need very clear action points from the leaders within all the different fields of saying this is what we want to achieve. Actually, specifically, I want a date where you want to achieve this, and specifically a breakdown of how you're going to achieve this, because it's different completely for lots of different organizations of what they need to do, whether it's related to the interview process or whether it's related to. Actually, how are we allowing everyone to develop their leadership skills so they have the qualities that they need for this specific role? For example, Or how are we helping people throughout the organization who are ready within the organization from these different backgrounds? Are we doing something that's making sure that they're not getting promoted? So what can we do to actually make it fairer and even across the board? So we have got equity of opportunity within all the different organizations, and then I think for everyone else, I think it's again. It's just about talking openly about it, having these conversations with peers. There's so many different organizations as well, not just W. PMN even though, of course, that's what I'm going to promote. So I'm here and I work in lots of different organizations as well, and it's saying you might not have time to dedicate to it like a long term role. But perhaps you can maybe write a blog for one of the organizations or W PMN. Perhaps you can do a YouTube video just help out with current medical student, so you might want to take on like a mentor type type role and for ordering your doctors. We have doctors reps as well within W P M N, and that's why we want to eventually be talked in all the different royal colleges. So we welcome everyone from all different specialties, but also foundation doctor's interested in that specialty to see how we can work with royal colleges. I really do think they're key. Not just they can focus on medical students, which is amazing. They can work on. Actually, doctors like with know people from certain backgrounds feel that certain exams more, but we don't know why that is so. They can do work there, but then they can also do work like the Royal College of GPS with aspiring medical student. So they're in such an amazing position to actually help get people with into the royal colleges. And once they're in there, there's all the leadership positions in the royal colleges as well. So that's I think a big, big key for me is where I would like to see Doctor. Um, I'm really focusing on is the Royal College is I think that we can make a big change there, And if anyone wants to do politics, then please, Please help. Please. They've got a long way to definitely, definitely. No. I think I agree with all of what you said. So, Olivia, what do you think? What do you think we can do? Really? I think get involved. I think that was my main take home point. I mean, I had heard about w p m n from a friend. Um, and the more I read about it, the more I wanted to get involved. And we're always always welcoming new volunteers. Um, and the more the more ideas you can bring to the table, the more change that we can make. Really? Um, and even just having you within the folds adds to again our diversity within the organization and the Maybe there's an idea that is on your mind. Um, and it's something that we really we would like to support you to action. Um and, you know, it's really about just getting involved and showing your passion or sharing your passion with all of us. Um, I think just jump in with 2 ft. Brilliant advice and and And green, what would you say? What should we be doing? Yeah, I completely agree with everything that J and Olivia have said. I suppose just to be part of the change change is coming. And I've been really inspired by all the medical students, the Gemzar, the students I see coming through who are very passionate about social justice, Um, and be having so many campaigns. So it is coming, and so just encourage everyone to embrace it, be part of it. Um, it will happen. Um, and we just need as many sort of hands on board, um, as possible. Yeah, exactly. You don't need to be from a w p background to support the cause. Thank you so much. Honestly, you have been one of the most inspiring talks. I mean, I'm part of it, but I've been to in a long time. So if we need to plug a few things So when is your conference? Just say that date again. There's the ninth of July, ninth of July. Okay, so, ninth of July, we're going to sign up. We're going to attend this. Incredible. You know, it sounds fantastic. What? You're organized. And just thank you so much for joining us this evening and and coming along and telling us about your organization. I think you're a gift to anybody who you want who who wants to collaborate with you? Like, I think, you know, you're approaching these colleges that I know that about this issue and don't know what to do about it. And you're a gift telling them this is what you need to do. So I really I think you just go up and up and up. But thank you so much for joining us tonight. It's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for having us. Thank you. And I'm going to put a link in the chat just to provide some feedback. Um, but it's been It's been really, really fantastic. Evening. Thank you. so much. Okay. Oh, everybody's saying thank you. Yes. Okay, so we watch everybody leave. But thank you so much. That was honestly, just fantastic. Really, really, really funny, because I obviously I you know, I mean, we've had a chat about it, but, like, really, when you talk about your story and how we were founded, exactly all the things that you're involved in, it's just quite It's just really unbelievable. Um, I'm just so impressed, So impressed. Um, but yeah, we I hope this is the start of a very exciting partnership. I think we would definitely love to collaborate with you more on on other events. I'm sure. Yeah, that'd be great. Definitely hang on somebody's message to be an important thing. Kim, you are the hosts, so I need to end the webinar. Okay. Thank you, everyone for joining. Okay, So I think I just have to leave. I think I think that's how I do it. So thank you so much. And I will send you the feedback when we have it. And I look forward to working with you again. Thanks. Bye. Are you still here? Yeah. I think we're still here because I think I'm I think I'm a host or seven people still here? Not so funny. Can people hear us? Yeah. Okay. Is it still recording? I don't know about that. Well, yeah, it is. I can see the record, but maybe maybe we should leave. Okay, bye.