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And realize. Hi, everyone. I'm Shaan. I'm one of the junior doctors working in the UK. And I'm here with a doctor who's a consultant radiologist who's here to shed some wisdom on us uh about why he chose radiology and why he thinks it would be a good speciality for us. Juniors to look into. Um Before we get into this, I'd just like to kind of go over what radiology and focus is. So we're a few junior doctors that decided to create this teaching program um to help shed light on the um application process of trying to get into radiology speciality. Um And what it entails. So we've got a couple more teaching sessions coming up. Um If we can go to the next slide, Doctor Pie. Lovely. So they're all over there. So for example, in a couple of weeks, you've got y interventional radiology and we also have some portfolio guidance and MS R A um prep. Um So please subscribe and join us for those. Um Anyway, without further ado doctor, I go ahead, take the lead. Yep. Can you hear me? Yeah. Yeah. Thank you very much Aan for organizing uh this session, uh which I think will be good for those who are not sure whether they want to have radiology as a carrier or not. Um But I thought I will give my story. Uh, it may be too old for you all because you're all youngsters. So it may be old. Uh It may sound old but I think it is good to know that why I changed. Uh then it will give you an insight. So I'm a medical graduate uh from India when I qualified in 1995 you know, at that time, medicine, general Medicine was at the top of the list of uh of anybody who wants to do post graduation because the clever people used to do medicine and then we used to look at our seniors or there he is doing medicine. I should do as well. So that's what made me take up medicine even though I was not 100% sure. Anyway, I took it and cleared that and did the MD medicine. Uh in 1998 it is a three years course. And at that time, I thought I should do some specialist training in gastroenterology to doing endoscopies and things. That was the aim. So I thought UK may be a good place because there is a lot of competition and less number of endoscopy centers in India. So moved here after doing pla and um I cleared that then started working in a various medical branches in the UK at the same time, passed mrcp uh in 2001. So I don't know how many were born at that uh year. So um yeah, when doing that work in medicine, I realized that I'm not happy in the sense I was a headless chicken. Moving around, always busy running around, chasing around all these low potassiums, low sodiums, high potassium, high sodiums and elderly patients very ill looking after them. And ultimately, the result was not good. So like that, I was thinking what I'm doing with my life, I should think about something else. Then at the same time, I realized that more and more number of times you are going to radiology for opinions or advice only after that, making the diagnosis and going to all the meetings MD and things where, where the radiology, opinion or findings are making the difference in the patient's management and outcome. So all those things made me think uh it's better. I try to change to radiology and at the same time, it was opening up as well and I saw some of my seniors are changing and they were happy with their training and things. So that made me uh change. But it took a one year uh to show that I'm interested because my CV was looking like medicine for five years and then why I'm changing to radiologist, it took some time uh to change it by doing audits and a few things, attachments and other things. So yeah, after that, when I got into radiology training post in Liverpool in 2002, uh my happy medical career started. So I never looked back and I'm so happy and I thank God all the time that I took the right decision, looking at the status of medicine and other branches where it's chaotic and other things. And uh yeah, it has been 16 years uh since uh I've been a consultant and very, very happy uh that I made that decision. Now, currently my job plan just wanted to show my job plan because there is um thinking that radiology means you will be moving away from patients. It is your choice. If you want to be 100% with patients, then you can choose interventional radiology. If you want to be 50% like I am where 50% is diagnostic work and 50% where I spend time with the patients by doing procedures, ultrasound lists and uh other things. Uh So there are some teaching sessions which I enjoy, which I usually teach it like doctors who wants to do radiology and we have got like trainees as well. So sometimes spend there. And yeah, you can see that it is 11 P job, 11 pa means programmed activity and each P is four hours. Uh actually like 9 to 5 job if you do Monday to Friday is 10 pas that is a salary. But because of the shortage and everything. Every radiologist is given a workstation or they might have joined a teleradiology company where they will be reporting from home whenever they, they find time at home report. So that 11 P is doesn't just a basic thing. So you can see there is a lot of options of earning more if you want to or if you have time and uh interest. So there is no limit. So that's what my job plan. So I opted for 50% with the patient, 50% away from the patient that keeps uh me like myself with the patient. But there are so many other consultants who want to do only diagnostic work and reporting work, they will not be in touch with the patients. Um Yeah, what are the advantages of moving to radiology? I always feel that if you change from clinical um medicine or ziga whatever job to radiology, you will be moving a step ahead in your career. I said that in the interview as well saying that all these years, I was a patient's doctor now, I want to become a doctor's doctor because when I was working in medicine or other branches, I realized radiologist is a doctor's doctor because their opinion or only after the report, the ma the diagnosis or management of the patient uh was changing and you know, in various cancer entities, uh their opinion was taken as a uh like taken to change the patient's management, the staging and all those things I always uh feel also that imaging is better than imagining. Yes, we need to examine the patient and have to have a differential diagnosis. But we always, in the words, when we're working, we always imagining like it would be this, it could be that it could be p it could be cardiac, but answer is obtained after doing imaging. So imaging is better than imagining. And also you can control your life. There is a good work life balance in radiology. Um because even if you're on call, you can work from home or there are some branches where if you choose it, you don't need to be on call like breast radiology or MS care radiology in a tertiary center or so. And also there is opportunities to move around the world because you don't need to be ST uh stuck to one place because I got a few friends who are working in Australia enjoying the life there, but they're working for UK hospitals from there through teleradiology. I got a few friends who are from India and they're back, they're trained here, going back to India to be with the parents, but they are working for UK hospitals doing on call and everything from there. So like that, there's opportunities where you can move around. You don't need to be in one place or one hospital. Um So there are with all these advances in technology and things that is getting better and better. And, um, yeah, if you like surgical background, you want to do procedures all the time, then interventional radiology is for you. Uh, you don't need to be in, in surgery to do the procedures and it doesn't matter, you can be in any branch at the moment. Like, um, you may be in orthopedics, you may be in surgery. You, you may be in GP, you, you can uh change as well as long as you show uh or satisfy these entry criterias. So there are some entry criterias like they expect at least two years of uh experience in general medicine surgery like as you're doing and to that type, those type of posts or also CT one doesn't matter if you may a GP already in training. There are uh there are some doctors who are changed. Um Even though they were a GP trainee were not happy being a GP and they wanted to change, they just, they change to radio and at the time of when I was training, like as I said, I was medical, but I, I could change to radiology. There are a few friends who or colleagues who were orthopedic trainees almost done everything. But they wanted to change. Even at the age of 30 32 we could change and pediatric people have changed and they become pediatric radiologists like that, you know. So there is no limit of which branch you are doing already. There is option of changing it as long as uh you shows that your commitment and dedication to radiology, what does it mean? I will show you the next slide, but there is a requirement that you need to have MS A exam and good score there. I don't have much experience of MS R A because uh we didn't have that exam at that time, it came up recently. So uh you may be having better idea what it involves and how to prepare and all those things and there is application process and interviews and uh yeah, there is a competition is going up. Uh like last year there is application to interview or successful ratio was 8.7 is to one, nearly nine is to one. So you need to be really prepared and work hard to get in. So what do I mean by dedication and commitment to radiology? Um it means that you need to show that you have done some attachments because as you know, there are no F one F two posts in radiology, they used to have I think now it stopped. I understand. Uh So only way of showing that you are interested is doing some shadowing or attachments in radiology. More you do is better. You choose hospitals like some DHS some tertiary centers as well where you can meet the program director of the radiology training scheme and things like in like in a tertiary center is better than DHS. But you need to have D attachment experience as well, need to do some clinical audits, uh better uh like radiology related and also show that you completed the audit cycle that will fetch you more score and try to look for case reports. Uh like uh there are some junior doctors who come to us and we always come across some interesting cases which you can work on and do the case reports, not in a big journal or anything. There are so many online journal, case report, general type of thing where you can get it done. And also if you have done any audit, we can turn that into poster uh in like radiology conferences in UK, I will or in the annual scientific meeting in radiology, we do it all the time in every year in our hospital. Like when they have done some audit, we tell them try to put it as a poster and then if that is accepted, you get more points for that. So and try to do some conferences or attend some meetings. It may not be like radiology conferences. It can be like general type of x-ray type of uh teaching courses like chest x-ray for junior doctors is one which you can find a and doctors uh like radiology for A and doctors red dot is usually for radiographers, but we can do that as well. And there is another website or there's a conference annually held um called radiologist in training. Those are already prs who are t trainees, but they have a conference which also can attend, which Shagan has experience of attending. We did the poster and presented there and attended and found it very useful to speak to the trainees who already there. All those things if you do, it shows that you are really dedicated and committed to have a radiologist career and try to organize like teaching activities, maybe radiology related. It can be at your hospital level where you can go and speak to the radiology consultants and say that you want to have some teaching sessions in radiology, then include other doctors as well to come and attend. Like we are doing in our hospital like every Monday uh lunchtime we have a let and I mean, which is a teaching session where we encourage the junior doctors to bring their cases from the wards so that we can go through their imaging on. We also show cases where we think the radiology. I mean, the junior doctor should be aware of such cases. You know, the type of activity you can start locally or we can do it as a regional level. Like if you're in a Yorkshire Hum area, we can include Hull and other hospitals and arrange that way. Like you, you like Shaan and Soleiman are doing uh this type of activity where they are including all of you and getting together and arranging. So that can be taken as a regional or national level like teaching activity as you more go higher up, you'll get more points in your CV. So this is, I don't know how much, how well you can see it, there are certain domains here which they use uh to uh in your application to score you. Uh like commitment is the one which has got maximum points, 10 points, it says more you do is better and more number of attachments and uh shadowing leadership. There are some points like teaching activities like I explained and qualifications. If you're that, you know, there are some teaching qualifications. If you have, you get more audit and quality improvement activities, uh like audio cycle completed uh is has got more points and academic if you got any prizes uh and things like if I had done some poster or if I got in a conference, you might have won the prizes there or locally, you might have done something where you'll be. Um So like that you will be scored according to how much time you are put in, in attending or achieving all these. So that will increase the chances of uh getting shortlisted and doing well in the interview. Uh This is from the last year. Uh This, I took it from a radiology ca A dot com website where there were 350 posts available and you can see there are quite a few number of applicants. Uh it became nearly nine is to one. And ultimately, after the MS R A and all those things, they shortlisted one is to two. And so that's why it is uh very competitive. You have to really prepare uh well in advance. Uh you need not to wait for finishing F one F two, start in your F one posting itself, you're really thinking of radiology. So that will build up your uh chances and CV. And also um like you can start preparing for MS MS R exam as well. There's another slide from that website. Again, again, you can see the number of posts is increasing but not as we want it because there is a lot of shortage, like in 2012, it was only 1 60 something. Now it is 3 50 last year. And again, the competition ratio we can see is going up from four is to one to nearly nine. So it is uh it's important to if a thinking start early. So how does that, what does the training involve? Training is usually very structured? Uh It is all in the Royal College website. Uh First three years is mainly for general radiology. They want you to get exposed to all aspects of radiology at the general level. Um So that will help you to make you as a general radiologist first because your foundation has to be good because however advanced specialist radiologist you become, there is always that you need to have that basic knowledge of other specialities. I mean, other subspecialties, other modalities as well. So it's very important, you need to give importance to those three years of uh obtaining general radiology skills. And then during that period, we will be doing some exams. So there will be more exams. Uh but any speciality you choose, there will be exams anyway. So here we have got FCR one which is mainly physics and anatomy, which you finish within one year. And then you start preparing uh for two A which is MC Q based when we did, we had six modules. But I now understand there are only two papers which includes all the subspecialties and two B is the final exam where you got long cases and some rapid reporting sessions and viva I don't think that has changed much. Um but it has become digital when we did the exam, we are putting up the films in front of the light that, that we used to have, but it's all changed now. And when you finish the exam and uh when you're going smoothly and uh sailing nicely, then 4th and 5th year is used to encourage you to choose the social, social and get trained in that. Like I did uh I showed interest in G I radiology. So I did the 4th and 5th year was mainly for G I radiology with general radiology. But after becoming consultant, I added gu like genito urinary and mainly MRI prostate uh that type of thing to take part in the like the radiology, DT. So when you finish your training and if you're trained in one aspect, it doesn't mean that you can add any subspecialty later as a consultant, you can add other options of adding to that if you're going through some training process and things as a consultant as well. It is not always that when you finish your training, that is the only branch you can do, you can change or add to your skills. There are more number of years of training as well. 6th and 7th year, it's mainly uh fellowships where you want to do interventional radiology or neurointerventional radiology. Uh All those things will add extra years uh uh to develop the skills and to become specialists. And some doctors go out of the country to do just a fellowship in one of the branches and then come back or most of the doctors don't come back looking at the UK scenario at the moment they go and like Canada, New Zealand, Australia and not seen anybody coming back. So yeah, those are the options you have. So there are many subspecialties you can choose. Uh like every branch can be subspecialty uh neuroradiology, Gigu Gyne ob or fetal radiology, musculoskeletal head and neck, pediatric breast interventional nuclear medicine or you can have a mixture of things. Um But as I said before, if you want to do interventional and new interventional, it, it will take additional couple of years more. Um So usually the question is, what are the challenges, challenges? I feel that as, but I'm seeing that David has uh mentioned that he is doing F to post in hull. So there may be some but there were more before which I think has reduced in number. That's what I was told. Um So yeah, because it is a new speciality for you because as, as F one F two doctors, you might have not had much experience or exposure to radiology, that can be a challenge. Um because you need to have um uh like experience of how various things look in each modality. When I joined radiology at the age of 31 I felt that what I'm doing with my life, I had gone back to my G CS E level because I was made to sit in a physics lecture talking about electrons, protons and neutrons and things which uh had learned at the uh like GCC and a level. And then again, after so many years of getting trained in medicine and doing post graduation and MCP and everything and going back to that same level. So that's what you feel in the first year, but it passes very quickly. So you have to go through your anatomy as well that and then you will feel that you are in the first year medical school again. But I mean, as I said, as I said, time flies and then you will be enjoying uh the training. Um And also there is chance challenge of uh understanding various modalities because it's not only x-ray x-ray, ultrasound ct MRI nuclear medicine, there are so many modalities you need to have exposure to exposure of so that can create a bit of a challenge. But again, you'll be trained in that. And knowing the normal variants, you know, especially limb xrays infused epiphysis, bone island, there are so many normal variants, we need to learn them before calling something as abnormal. So that can be a challenge. But you will with practice when you see more and more and you, you will overcome that and subtle findings or incidental findings can be a problem for radiology. Subtle means it it may be early stages or if you're not given too much of importance or change a window. When looking at the CT, we may miss things or CT is done for something else and you might miss or forget to look at entire CT and then miss the incidental findings. It happens many times. Those can be challenges because if these patients in the future develop some cancer and then e everybody can go back to the previous examination and because it is there like radiology record will be there forever. Everybody can look back and say, oh it was missed by radiologist and so that can create problems. But as long as you are careful and look at each and everything, have a checklist in your mind that can be uh avoided but not 100%. I feel again, we have to go through many exams. But, um, as I said, any speciality you choose, there will be exams. But I feel recently it has become easier because there are no six modules for theory. It's only two papers and there is no negative marking. When we did the exam, we had negative marking. If you get it wrong, you'll get minus one. Now, there is no negative marking and you have to choose the best one single answer. All those things I feel has made it a bit easier. And then other challenge at the end of three years is which subspecialty to choose as well, so that you will uh choose the speciality as you go along. The next question you will develop is where should I work in Ad GH or a tertiary center? It is a personal choice. So I chose DGH because I thought in ad GH, I can do what I want to do rather than somebody telling me you have to do these things. That's what I experience now. So as as I mentioned, there, you can be a big fish in a small pond or if you want to do only one speciality and you want to be in a bigger city. Uh That type of um thing then yes, then it is a tertiary center you'll be looking at um in the DH L you can choose your own supers like I do general but I chosen G I and G radiology because which means I'm not doing any MS K work, pediatric work or things like that. So there are other colleagues who have got interest and they do those things. So in the center, you become even more very, very specialized. You will be like only one small field where you will get, I think you'll get referrals from neighboring DHS and then you'll be the final point. So you have to take action. And as a DH if you're not sure of something, you can always take opinion or send the patient to the tertiary center, this is always the question of what are the risks? You know, uh I'm thinking of radiology, what are the risks for the future? So as I said before, Mrs is one of the common things in radiology because once the scan is done for something you have to look at the entire scan. And if there are subtle findings can be missed, that is one of the common things which Royal College is aware and that's why they do the conferences as well. There is a conferences for the discrepancies which they call, which they don't call discrepancy. Now they call it as the radiology events and learning rather than discrepancy. So you can imagine. Um there is a co it's a common thing. That's why Royal College does all like national level conferences every year, two or three days conferences um that you need to take it as um like it can happen to anyone in radiology. And also as I said before, it, all of us can look at the previous imaging and then say it was there and it was missed. So that can sometimes bring you down. It is uh it is a common thing which can happen, skill mix, skill mix means because of the shortage of radiologists. Uh the government is trying to get radiographers to do and report that can create sometimes problems because there are some doctors who are not keen to train the non doctors to report. Same thing you might have seen happening in the physician associates and nurse practitioners or nurse consultants. That type of thing is getting more and more because radiographers are also looking to advance their career than being just radiographer and taking pictures. They're also the ones they're also looking at this and there's shortage as well. So that is one of the risks. A I is always uh I think nowadays it has always been told to the doctors that don't do radiology because A I is coming and you'll become redundant. That is wrong. So this is um recently in our newsletter from the Royal College which we get uh this is our Royal College president, Doctor Hali. Uh she has given a nice article, it says technology is fast evolving. It's good, but A I won't replace the radiologist. So how A I is going to help? We think at the moment is that uh it will help in managing the load. Like if there are 100 CTS are done, it might bring up the one which it thinks is abnormal so that it can be reported first, that type of thing might happen or it's already happening. Or if there's a trauma ct where whole body is done. And instead of wasting time looking at the normal areas, it might bring your attention straight away or say look, there is a big pneumothorax, look, there is a big bleed or mama look at that area first, that type of thing that might help in screening. It is likely to be useful where the screening is very small part like breast screening where it has to just look for calcification or abnormal architecture of the breast. That area, it may be helpful or it may be helpful when we do only MRI Im looking for internal a meter and things where it is not looking at anything else or some knee, MRI s spine, MRI S, it may be helpful in those areas. But again, it might help to screen out completely normal ones because when we report a session, I feel like half or more than half is normal. It means I'm wasting time looking at the normal ones and then less time to look at the abnormal ones to interpret it and all those things. So that why, yeah, it might help that way. Um, that, uh, it will help you, um, to guide you to the area where we have to look at straight away immediately and also screen out complete normal ones so that it doesn't find anything abnormal, it might screen them out, then we can concentrate on the abnormal ones and interpret it uh with more time. So it and also I cannot replace your procedural skills. As you know, radiology is not only diagnostic, it is interventional and you do, you'll be doing therapeutic procedures as well. So um so it cannot replace that. So that will be there all the time. And and also as you know, there is a shortage at the moment, there is 29% workforce shortage according to a recent survey. And also there are so many senior doctors will be retiring soon. Uh So and also, you know, with all these government attacks, uh like the pension tax and all those things, making many people to retire early as well. So all those things uh will add and also there is increasing demand. Nowadays, you may have experience that nobody sends the patient home just by examining, they will two forms they will give to the patient after seeing them one blood test and one is x-rays or imaging. So, imaging demand is increasing. So A I can be useful as an additional tool there. Uh But rather than replacing you radiologist, I mean, we as a human being, I don't think that is happening, going to happen soon. That's what my our feeling is. That's what uh Royal College also says. And also, yeah, I cannot read the clinical information. It can't compare with the previous ones as well. So it might be helpful like if MRI prostate is done, it will say uh if it is abnormal or not, but if the patient already has a previous MRI and there are some findings I don't think at the moment, it is not able to compare with the previous ones and things. So not to worry about A I, it will come but it will help us, it will assist us to our job better rather than replacing us. So how to mitigate that risk is by have some interest in doing some procedures. Try not to be only a diagnostic radiologist or developing other things like this is teaching management research, all those things. Uh you'll be there all the time so you can uh develop interest in one of those areas as well. Um Yeah, for me, it has been a very satisfying choice and career. As I said at the beginning, I'm happy that I'm a doctor's doctor and skill skills in both diagnostic and therapeutic procedures. Uh You will, I mean, you can develop some speciality interest as ad level, as well as a tertiary center level. Uh you don't have to be only general. So the option of working in both the places and you will be having enough work wherever you work. So that's my filling is and there was one last uh yeah, this is the website which you can use. Just got a lot of information there. Radiology cafe dot com. Uh A lot of information about how to prepare what other things to do and a lot of information there which I found very, very useful, which I looked in recently. So that's what I wanted to say. So if there is any questions or anything I can take. Hi, Doctor Py. Thank you so much for that talk. Honestly, I really did enjoy it. Um uh Do you guys have any questions for doctor before he heads off? No, I don't think so. Um Yeah, clearly. Yeah, you did a good job. Well, thank you doctor. Honestly. Uh That was, that was such a great uh presentation. Um Guys just to let you know, we do have um a couple more sessions coming up. That will, oh wait, you've got a question. Um Can you see it doctor Pa Yeah. Uh So doctor Edie is asking about um patient contact. Yeah, patient contact will be there in all specialities. If you want to avoid, you can avoid as well. Like for example, in G I and G I'm doing, I've got ultrasound sessions where I, I have to be, I, I have to scan, I got head and neck session where I'll be doing like scans before doing biopsies of thyroid or lymph nodes. As I said, at the beginning, it is 50% each um any speciality you do like you can either it is your choice, either you want to do, have patient contact or not. If you want to do like for example, breast radiology, you, you'll be having session where you'll be seeing the patients doing breast ultrasound biopsies and coiling and all sorts of things. So every branch you can choose, there are some doctors who just want to do screening breast radiology. It means they don't have to see the patient. They may have to just report the mammograms, report the MRI scans and things like that. So it's all up to you. Uh There is nothing like fixed uh extent. We can say that you have patients uh uh contact or not. Um And Sultan, you did mention that it's really challenging to do audits and research. It can feel a bit daunting because we don't as juniors, we don't really have much experience with meeting radiologists. But what I did is I just went down to the radiology department and I I knocked on Doctor Pie's door. Um and you'll find a lot of radiologists are more than happy to help um Junior doctors get into this speciality. Um It can be as simple as just asking um if they have any audits that they need help with or as for research, I think that might be a tricky one cause research is quite kind of long. Maybe you can ask for an interesting case that you can uh take to publish for the, maybe the BMJ case reports, those are usually easier to kind of get approved and most radiologists are they, they are wanting to help and it does help like they do get their name on the end too. So it, it's mutually beneficial. Um I would definitely recommend you try to, yeah, every year, every year from S and S where I work 3 to 4 doctors get into radiology who try sincerely hard, like doing audits case reports, all of them have got in without any problem like they have been successful. So yeah, you may feel like it may be difficult, challenging, but as you come to know, asking and going to the department and asking who is the person to contact, then they will guide you and then if you keep bothering them with a couple of emails or meeting them in the office. So there is a lot of things uh to give it, give to you. So it is that you have to be proactive rather than uh thinking that somebody will call and give it to you. So yes, there are no, there are less number of FF to post in radiology, but you can go to radiology department and ask who is the clinical governance lead or audit lead and then go to that person and then start from there. So yeah, there is always a lot of things to do. Yeah, and, and it would be great if you guys could join us. I think in, in a couple of weeks time, we do have a port, a full portfolio guidance um lecture um and doctor will be going over everything that you'd kind of need and also his recommendations for how you can accomplish. Um uh basically, to get a complete portfolio and score the highest amount of points for training. Um So yeah, that might be really helpful and also that website which I'm showing there. Radiology cafe dot com is excellent. So if you want to, you can go into that and then you'll get all the information you want, including how to improve your uh chances and all everything is there. And also look for a course, there is a course which used to be held in Sheffield. I don't know who is in Liverpool, a career in Radiology course uh that you can attend as well. I think it was wasn't there in um Society of Society of Radiologist in training. Yeah. So um I attended the Society of um Radiologists in training conference. I think it was in May. Basically, I did an audit with doctor Pa, I created a poster and I submitted it and they accepted it. So I presented in a, in an international conference. Um so it can be a bit, it can be as easy as that, to be honest, did it kind of on a women? And we got in um and they did have a little lecture on kind of a career in radiology. Um and what you would need to kind of score all the portfolio points. Yeah, that is a good conference because where you come across our opportunity to meet all the trainees who have been successful recently, then you can uh speak to them and get their tips or points. Um They will be having a few tips to give it to you. So I think it's every year. So this is called Srit dot com, isn't it? WW dot Srit? Yeah, Google Srit or S RT. And they even have a Twitter too. It'd be really good to go. When I went, I met a couple of consultants and actually managed to do um a test per week at a hospital that's not even in my trust, which is really helpful for me. So you do meet people that can help you. Yeah, and for the case reports, it is uh usually, I mean, I encourage them. There's a website called where you can get some case reports. I mean, it has to be a good one but there we can use online one. So um there we can get many case reports, right dot com. Uh You are just register by paying 10 or 20 lbs, which is an annual subscription and then, uh, you can find a lot of cases there and you can submit your own. It is fairly straightforward, uh to submit as well. Exactly. Yeah. Uh Do, do you guys have any other questions? Srit dot com? Let, yeah. No, it's sr I think it is a small one sec I'll send, I'll send the link in the group. So here's the link. Um They do have an essay competition out now. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah, they, they've got an essay competition out now that you guys can try to get a prize for, I think abstracts open up in. Is it in Feb 2024 for the conference in May? And the conference tickets aren't too expensive. I think it's, it's 100 lbs for two days, but it's well worth it for what you get from it. Yeah. Um and guys before you head off, if you can please fill out a feedback form, it'd be um it'd be really great, especially for doctor who's taken time out of his busy day um to uh come and provide the session um and hope to see you guys in the next couple of um uh presentations that we have planned up in teaching sessions.