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Hello. Good evening. Thanks so much for joining us this evening. We'll just wait a couple more minutes for a few more people to join. Because I knew there was lots of you registered for this talk this evening, and then we'll get started. Okay? For those of you who have just joined us, Thanks for joining us. We're just waiting a couple more minutes just to let and some other people join. But we are here, and we'll get started in a couple of minutes time. All right? Okay, Let's get started. So hi, guys. Thank you so much for joining us tonight. Um, my name is Eleanor and part of the team and that run the F three series via the Portfolio clinic. So tonight is our third episode in our F three series. 2022 2023. Um, the air through series is a set of webinars that we run twice a year, and it aims to really showcase the opportunities that are available to doctors. After completing their foundation training in the UK tonight, we'll be joined by, um, two doctors and we'll be covering the clinical fellow F three and theme tonight and We've got two doctors Rachel and Charlotte who've joined us tonight and who have had some different experiences. So they're here to, um, give us their insights from that, Um, if you have any questions as we go through and just pop them in the chat box and we'll answer them at the end. But please don't hesitate to ask questions. That's really helpful for us. Um, so, first of all, I'll hand over to Charlotte. So she has had experiences birthday clinical fellow in palliative care and also doing sort of 50 50 clinical teaching fellow in acute medicine. So we really, really great to hear from Charlotte, so Hi, Charlotte. Good evening. Thanks for the introduction. Anyway, I'll nice to see you all this evening. I'll just load my slides now. So far, I just go backwards. Sorry to fly back. So Okay. Um, so I said, um, as, um said in the introduction, um, I have done an F three in palliative care. Um, and then I did an F four. There was half a teaching half acute medicine job. So hopefully I've got a bit of insight into some of the kind of medical clinical fellowships available. Um, I'll kind of talk through what each job entailed. Um, what my kind of role was and the opportunities each job allowed me to have, Um I'll talk a little bit in terms of how I actually found the roles. Um, and also how kind of other people I know have found them as well. Um, i'll talk a little bit about how to apply for the roles themselves, Um, and then also what the interviews entailed because obviously, I had an interview for each one. Um, I'll talk a little bit about the portfolio and assessment I did through the clinical fellowships. I did, um, and then a little bit of the kind of pros and cons, um, that I found for each, um so my initial job was in palliative care. Um, I was actually slightly out of sync in my foundation years, cause unfortunately, my mom had passed away, so it meant I had to do an extra rotation. So I always knew I was going to be a bit out of sync and wasn't gonna be able to kind of start training. And actually, I didn't have any particular interest in going straight through to training. Anyway, Um, I did this job from December to August, and again I was able to negotiate because originally was a year long contract. But, um, in August and, um, so I could do another job. I'd always had an interest in palliative care. Um, and basically, I wanted to explore if it was something I wanted to do long term, so I thought I'd get a bit more experience in it. Um, the job was mainly kind of 9 to 5. Working in a hospice, um, with a really lovely team. Um, and then also I did nonresident on call, which I've not had any experience of in foundation. So that was really helpful in terms of learning what it's like to be at home and kind of getting the calls and how to kind of triage from home. Um, the job. I was able to kind of negotiate a day of the week where I'd be able to do kind of teaching or audit opportunities to again try and gain some more points. So I did teaching kind of within the hospice and for medical students, um, and also said to be kind of audit group and, um, did auditing and presenting space. It was a really supportive team. I I'd always liked palliative care and foundation, but I've never had a kind of pure palliative placement and definitely found the eight months were really helpful in terms of knowing that this is what I wanted to do it again because you get to know the team over eight months, you can get a good experience in all of it. Um, and it helped me to know what them want to do in the future. Also definitely was able to gain points and experience for applications and kind of commitment to specialty those sorts of things, then did a Oh, sorry. It's just loading my F four placement. Um, so I did this from August to August 21 2. 22. this was a 50% teaching an acute medicine job, so the timetable was literally split normally. Um, each week, myself and my colleague, who sort of had a job share if one of us was teaching the medical students, the other one would be doing an acute medicine job. Um, this job, the acute medicine side, was pretty much a normal acute medicine job, but for an entire year. So again, that was really good. Um, I felt a little bit out of practice and a lot of the kind of practical, um, I m t type skills and things that I would need for application. Um, so again, kinda help back into acute medicine and see a wide range of presentations. And then the teaching that I had done at the hospice, I realized I really liked teaching and wanted to see if that was again something I want to get involved in. Um, so that's why I taught some of the third year medical students. Um, I got to do a wide range of things. So simulation tutorials, bedside teaching. Um, it was a kind of wide ranging job. And again, you can kind of negotiate any particular areas of interest. It also came with a p A funded PG certification in medical education, which I did online via Swansea University. Um, so again, that was good for kind of point. Um, points for applications for I m t. Um, I'll talk through how I found those jobs. Um, so the first job, the palliative job was actually pretty much luck. So I hadn't really planned what I was going to do after finishing my F two slightly out of sync. Um, and then I had a random email, and I think about June or July from a local trust. Just saying Hi. There are some opportunities for clinical fellow jobs again. I didn't think I'd be particularly lucky in getting the job because I knew I wouldn't be able to start until the December. But I thought it was worth applying anyway. And I found that, Um, obviously I I got the job and I was able to negotiate that. So if I'm honest, my first job was complete luck. Um, the other the teaching job effectively. I knew I wanted to do a teaching fellowship. I think I attended a talk similar to this, um, from medal about clinical teaching fellowships. And I thought that sounds like something I want to try. Um, so I mainly found those jobs. I looked at a few, um, on track jobs or NHS jobs. Um, I'd also contacted a few of the kind of local hospitals near me to find out what their normal procedure was. Um, I was quite late in looking into that. So again, because I was out of sync. I didn't start the palliative job until December. Um, I started looking for these jobs in kind of April May. Whereas I know a lot of the clinical fellow teaching jobs, um, are often on quite a lot earlier than that. But I found a kind of that combination of asking around and then looking on the track jobs website was most helpful to find the job just, like slide to load. Um, so again, I would ideally, um, if I had planned it out better tried to apply a bit earlier or at least find the jobs because it felt a bit stressful at times thinking, am I actually gonna get these jobs? Most of the applications were online forms, and they pretty much mirrored the training application. So I'm now on I m t one and pretty much the forms were incredibly similar, and I'll talk through some of the sections of the things I was asked. Um, that was also then really helpful for when I applied to I m. D. Because it really showed me which areas I was probably lacking in. So that helped me kind of job plan a bit during each F three and F four job, but also, I'd obviously already had a bit of a practice about what kind of things I need to write in. Um, so I could sort of then use that in the I m t application. Um, the forms are incredibly long, so definitely need a little bit of time to complete. Um, and again, I would always I would advise a good kind of couple of weeks of tweet tweaking the application if you can, um, to fill it in. So moving on to the kind of example questions. So some of the things I've got each application and they were quite similar for each clinical fellow job was kind of my qualifications. Any extra courses I'd done? They wanted me to list kind of employment history, every rotation and what sort of duties and responsibilities I had kind of quality improvement projects, and definitely I didn't have enough of that when applying to my F three jobs. That's something I wanted to concentrate on in my F three job. In particular, um, research and publications, management and leadership, um, kind of team working any fitness to practice problems and then making sure you've got some references. So I used people from my foundation jobs for that and then people from my F three job for my F 41. Um, for each one, I think I would write kind of quite a large paragraph for each, um and definitely for my first application had to spin some of it out and make it look a bit longer and more impressive. But it was really, really helpful to have done these before, then applying to I m t. Because definitely I sort of knew more of what was expected, um, and then interviews. So overall and I actually had three interviews because I did also have another experience for teaching job, which I turned down in favor of the one I took. Um, so I had kind of a variety of experience. Um, for my F three job was still covid. So I actually had an online interview with a panel because that job you had a choice between sort of palliative or psychiatry. Um, I had a panel of, um, one of the palliative consultants, and I think three psychiatrists, which is a bit intimidating in advance. Um, then for my clinical teaching job, I had a panel of four consultants who were involved with teaching at the hospital and then for the other teaching job I did. I had a panel of consultant and then a second panel of the actual clinical teaching fellows who already worked that, uh, but he had multiple people to kind of talk to. And, um, again, I found that then helpful for online interviews for I m t. Which were quite similar. Um, for the one of the teaching jobs, there was a practical element in terms of demonstrating my teaching skills and teaching them a session, which is not what I expected before I applied. So that's useful to know that that's a possibility. Um, uh, sort of questions. I got a lot of them were kind of actually quite covid based. So kind of. How do you think covid has impacted teaching or research or audit and things like that? Um, I think every interview I did they wanted to talk me through my audit experience. Um, and also kind of why I think I'd be suited for that role. Um, And again That was really helpful. Then when it came to I m t applications later on, um, my top tips for interviews. Um, so I would say the book that I've put on there, I have used to death for all of these interviews, and it's definitely the Bible for all applications. Um, effectively. I went through that book many, many, many times. I wrote myself lots of lists, but mainly I practiced with people. Um, So my poor other half, I think, had to experience lots of questioning before my interviews. I think one of the most helpful things is the structure of the book. Um, so actually, a lot of time I'd know what I need to say, but sort of just the word vomiting when I was practicing, whereas, actually, it helps to give you a nice structure and then just making sure, obviously, you know everything in your application thoroughly. So I definitely did a lot of highlighting beforehand. Um, there, during the jobs that I had, um, each one had a slightly different portfolio system. Um, so I was quite worried about this, I think before I started my, um, clinical fellowship, jobs obviously was very used to Horace and the kind of foundation portfolios, and I'd looked into all these sort of private, quite expensive portfolios. But actually, each job I did used to their own free portfolio system. Unfortunately, my F three to my F or they were completely different systems, although again they're quite similar. Um, I would definitely recommend talking to the department's you're working in early to find out your training system because I think in each mind the training was actually quite late because they timed it with the consultants instead. Um, and it meant it was a bit of a rush towards the end in terms of completing, but either way, I definitely was keeping a log of kind of evidence and reflections. Um, definitely similar view, the kind of foundation things I was collecting. But I wasn't collecting specific numbers of case based discussion's and those sorts of things. I still had a multi source feedback element. Um, and I still did do reflections and some interesting cases collected kind, of course, is that I had done, but it was slightly less formal and less kind of ticking. X amount of number of boxes for each one, Um But definitely my advice would be anything that you do or plan to do in that year. Um, keep a record of it, and you can. Then you have your sign off and then use that for your revalidation later on. Um, so definitely extra opportunities I had for both jobs. So, um, when I did my F three job, I had a chance to do an extra palliative qualification. So I got my European certificate in essential palliative care. Um, and then in my f four, I got my PG certificate, medical education again. That was really helpful for points and I m t. But also just for my own interest. And they were genuinely both really helpful in my training. Um, I said for, um, particularly F three job was able to negotiate a day, a week of proper self development time. And it wasn't where I found. Now, self development time sort of. You end up on the ward a lot of the time. Anyway, this was kind of properly you don't have to come in. You have dedicated time to do courses and things like that. And if you need to move it around, um, or there were a lot more flexible in terms of study leave and things like that. I found, um, in my F three in particular, um, palliative care experience. Again, I didn't get very much of that in f one F two. So having that additional experience was really helpful in actually knowing this is what I want to do. Um, obviously taste, the days are really useful, and I've done quite a few of those. But I think until you've done the job for a couple of months, it's it's more difficult to know if that's what you want to do. Um, so again, I found that really helpful particular, slightly niche area like palliative care. Um, I found time to explore new things that I like to particularly thinking about, kind of teaching and my f three. I got more time to give that a bit of ago realized I liked it, and hence I ended up getting a teaching job for my f four. Um, and one of the real benefits I thought was being part of a team for longer, so I kind of hate the four months rotate around. Don't really get to fully know everybody then whisked away somewhere else. Where is actually you got longer periods of time and it felt more like you're kind of a part of the big team. You get to know everyone does sometimes make it more difficult to leave. But I genuinely think that was a big benefit of kind of the F three f four. I think some of the downsides is. Although I had supervisors for each, it definitely relied a lot more on my kind of self motivation and organization to get courses and take things off. I didn't have a kind of supervisor saying You need X amount of this an X amount of that. It sort of was more reliant on myself, and I think particularly because we've just gone through covid and things like that. Um, I wasn't always so good at motivating myself to do it. All the bits I should be doing. Um, I think often you are earning less money. So I was on slightly more than my F two year, um, but definitely wasn't earning as much as my colleagues who were kind of low coming. Um, so, financially, um, I think you probably could work less days for more money, doing a lot of low coming. Um, although you could do a bit of low coming on the side, which I did in my F four year. Um, and then I was less able to negotiate free time. So I was lucky in my teaching year and that I could get all of Christmas off because the students weren't there. Um, but other than that, it was kind of similar around to annual leave to normal. Um, definitely a few people who asked me of my F four place about, actually, Can I do this job but go traveling for a few months? It definitely wasn't as flexible as that. Um, so you were less able to kind of actually have that proper break after f two and because a lot of them do start straight away in August again. Um, as I said, I did manage Negotiate starting my F three in December, but that's just something to bear in mind. And I said things I wish I'd known if I was to kind of restart my F three and F four. Now, um, I would earlier on plan out what I wanted to do for the year. So I think initially I almost treated it like a bit of a break and doing something. I was found interesting, and I really enjoyed. I didn't think about the kind of bigger picture of things I could be doing. Um, and actually, I could have fit in more courses and particularly some exam prep, so I kind of put off doing exams, whereas it would have been a bit of a golden time with extra study leave and things like that. So it's a definite regret currently, now that I'm in I m t, um earlier training on the portfolio system just so that I wasn't behind and that and that I could put everything on the system earlier because I just had a laptop full of stuff. I ended up having to transfer over, which was extremely annoying, and I would have taken a bit more time to negotiate more training opportunities. So, um, but my F three was brilliant for that, but I think I could have got bit more study, leave and, um, time away at courses and conferences in my F four. Um, and then that's all the bits from me. So I think I'm going to be handing over now to Rachel. Um and yeah, we can do some questions at the end if anyone's got any. Yeah, that was brilliant. Thanks so much, Charlotte, that was so enlightening. And you've really done lots of different things, which is really great to hear about all the different things you've done and how they compare to each other. So that's been really valuable, hopefully to people listening. And before we move on to Rachel, I just wanted to pull up and talk a little bit more about the portfolio clinic. Like I mentioned at the start, the portfolio clinic is brought, and the three series is brought to you by the portfolio clinic, and this is a sort of near peer mentorship scheme and where you can sign up and you'll get allocated to a mentor and the specialty that you're interested in going into. And they'll give sort of one on one personalized input on your portfolio and ways to improve that, and ways to give advice and help on applying for specialty applications. And they also help with sort of smart goal setting. And so, especially if you are thinking of doing an F three or an F four and and, like what? Charlotte was mentioning about having that, you know, wanting to make set those goals at the beginning of an F three year to get the most out of the year. Then the portfolio clinic would be something that would be helpful along with your your mentor to to hopefully get the most out of that time as well. Um, so if you check us out, we're at the portfolio clinic dot com and or you can find us on social media as well. Um, next I will hand over to Rachel. So Rachel is, um, part of the portfolio clinic as well. So thank you for coming on tonight, Rachel. And she did an F four as a junior clinical fellow in general surgery. So be interesting to hear the the surgical side of things compared to sort of the medicine side of things. So, over to you, Rachel. Thanks, Ellie. Um, so, yeah, I'm gonna talk about my surgical clinical fellowship here, which I did as an f four. I'm now an f. I'll explain a bit about all of that in a second. Um, you'll probably see lots of similar themes to what Charlotte said, which I think just shows it doesn't matter what type of fellowship you do, whether you want to do labs and gain any medicine surgery. There's kind of similar things that you'll need to know and due for your clinical fellow year, if that's what you want to pursue so a little bit about me. Um, so I graduated in 2018. I did. Everyone in Wessex left two and seven, which I know is a dean. We transfer if anyone wants to ask me about that. I know all the rules have changed since I did it, so I'm probably not the best person to ask. But my email is at the end if anybody just want to, Um, I then did a planned F three years, so I did a teaching fellow year that was 80% teaching, 20% clinical, Um, that had perks such as the PG set, like Charlotte mentioned, and was 95 had Christmas off. So all your kind of usual perks for teaching fellows, but I'm not going to go into that too much because we've got amazing speakers lined up next week who will tell you all about the different opportunities there. Uh, what I'm going to focus on is my f four year as a junior clinical fellow in Wales, and that was in colorectal surgery. So I did that job for a few reasons. I wasn't sure if I wanted to do surgery. So it was my chance to do that full time for a year and see if it fit with my personality. If it was something to pursue, I wanted to try Wales as a Dean ary because I kind of knew what seven was like. It was where most of my experiences were, and I could commute to Wales. So I thought, Let's give it a go. See what somewhere else was, like, another option for training. Um, so they were my main incentives. And then the third thing was portfolio. Well, that was on a bit of a back burner for me at that point. Um, and this year I am traveling. So another reason for doing my F three and F four was to save up as much money as I could. Um, So this is a picture of me in Malaysian Borneo. A couple of weeks ago. So there is other things you can be doing. You don't have to work, Um, but we'll save that for another talk. I think so how and when to apply. So most jobs for clinical fellow jobs, teaching or clinical come out February to May time. They generally sink in with when people get accepted or rejected from training programs, so people have other options of things to undertake. My main message here is Do not panic. So after my F three, I had another teaching fellow job lined up for F four and then very last minute. Unfortunately, they changed the rotor on me and said I'd be working one in two weekends. So very kindly said, No, thank you. That's not what we agreed, and I started jump hunting in June, so my interviews went till very end of June. I didn't start sending off paperwork until July. So if things don't go to plan, my main message here is don't panic. There are always always jobs out there. There's something you can do, and I actually had my pick of jobs. Lots of other people dropped out of their plan d three F fours so I actually had a choice in what, several specialty. What trust? I wanted to work in and to apply for, um so there are always options. My top tip here is to sign up to NHS jobs. You can put in kind of keywords like fellow teaching fellow clinical fellow and get email updates, and it's so handy cause they'll just keep coming through all year and you can just pay attention to the ones you're interested in. Um, and as Charlotte said, it's a really good opportunity to update your CV, um, portfolio at that point, work out what you need to do, get everything organized and in order for your specialty applications. So things I wish I'd known to ask or think about before applying because initially I was just like, Oh my gosh, I need a job. Let's find one in surgery and just go for it. So think about the flexibility of the job. So I was quite lucky in the Post that I got. It was actually a six month contract, but they said an interview. It was extendable to 12 months, and they offered a rotation midway through so I could experience upper and lower GI, Um, my colleague, because it was too busting. Fellows left at six months and went and traveled for the rest of the year before starting CST. So those things do exist. Um, and I actually said I really like being in the lower GI team. I've made some really good like friendships and good support systems. I'd like to stay and build my skill set with people that trust me, kind of stay in lower GI, and they were more than happy to do that. So being somewhere for a year or six months longer in a team gives you those options, Think about the size of the team. So I went to a very big trust in Wales and there was something like 2025 registrars and I didn't even meet all of the consultants in my ear there. So think about what that means for training and who you want to be working with. I chose the team. We've got two female consultants to help with my portfolios and things, so that's just something to consider rotors. So I put here senior support. So I did see some jobs that meant you did, and calls as an S H O on your own overnight, and the reg is were available to call that often more D g h jobs. I went for a bigger center because most of my F one F two have been G g h s. So I could get more senior support overnight X experience at the hospital. So depending on what you wanted something to think about, and I also went for a job that did it's like working, um, so traveling to different trusts on different days for elective list clinics again because it was something I hadn't tried before, and I wanted to see how it was. It's a lot of driving. It's worth experiencing just Paks to think about. So you are valued as an have a thing. Say, well, other jobs offer this. Can you accommodate that? Um, and don't be afraid to ask of stuff like That's okay. They want you, so don't think it's you needing them. Um, so the pegs in my job where that I followed the ST one writer. So I got the same theater in clinics as the ST ones. There was very few more days which I was very grateful for at that point. Um, I got quite a large study leave budget, so I had 30 days, Um, which you could only take a normal working as as is normal for full time. Ritter. Um, but because it was my four year I made to take sure I took everything annual leave day and every single study day and just found to think to do, um, So think about what different trusts offer. Um, my effort didn't come with any additional qualifications, but the funding did fund two courses, so I got a T, l S and D s s for free, funded through the trust. So some do offer an extra life support course that is funded. So it's worth asking. You trust about that as well. Um, because my my split site I got fuel costs and something I hadn't really thought about before. Applying was if I was going to have a supervisor someone to do my portfolio with, um, like a main point of contact. And surprisingly, not all jobs have this at F three F four from people I've spoken to. Um, so that was something that I made sure I asked about, So think about the interviews. Um, my interview was 30 minutes. It was on zoom. It basically followed a bog standard format of Tell us about you, presumably because they hadn't read my CV, Um, in a long time. So it's good practice to have a little spiel going. I got a very F two level clinical scenario of this patient coming with this pain. What investigations? What questions? Watch her management. Um, and I had a complete fumble. I messed it up and forgot that ercp was a thing for a surgical job. And I'll put my hand up it a bit that, um so you don't have to perfect these interview for and I got the job. Um, so don't panic. They're just looking for people who are safe practitioners that will ask for help, Um, and have a bit of common sense. You don't have to be perfect. So don't panic. Um and they asked me about goals for the year, which I will come back to a little bit later. I would also say for interviews I've interviewed on a panel. When I was an f three teaching fellow, we got to do the interviews for the next round of CTS, as Charlotte said, was her experience. Um, so it's quite interesting to be on the other side of it. I'd say one of the things that makes Candidate stands out is asking questions. Interview. So asking is my appraisal done for you? Can you give me any details of the system? Will I have a supervisor? I asked, um, what the success of the previous post holders were, and they could say, Well, they can do independent dependent and can obviously help you make a decision just cause you've done the interview. The job. Um, also a bit of a note that once you do get a job, there's a lot of paper to fill out. I think I had forms like a to, uh, something like M labeled this forms to fill out and a lot of occupational health paperwork as well. Um, so that takes a lot of time, and you've got to do all your training and things as well, so factor that in once you get the job just to give you an idea. So this was my router. It was the full time rooter, but it's just to give you an idea of kind of the nights that I was doing the elective work. And as you can see, I've got quite a lot of good elective experience. And the clinics theaters were what kind of team based, fan based text WhatsApp groups say What's going on this week? We'd all agree Who was going to what list? What connects, Um, and it was really easy to rack up portfolio points in that section and lots of experience. Um, so it's something to consider when applying was that you're embedded in a team for six months a year, which is after foundation of brand new experience. Um, it does depend on the team, but for surgery, it is great to have the trust from your scene is for them knowing what you're capable of doing builders. It gives you a lot more independence. Um, it was just actually really nice to have the support people you could ask for help with portfolio advice and application advice. Um, so I would recommend actually doing year post and where you can the departmental teaching you can go to. I got to go to a lot of the CSG teaching, um, which was great just for my lying. Um, And that could go in my appraisal for the year, Um, interview practice. So I was just said I've been on both sides of it. I've interviewed two jobs three and four, and I, um, interviewed other people. It's so undo about because, well, we haven't interviewed since medical school applications for a lot of people. Um, So even if you're not, don't want the job. I would almost say go for it because it's just good practice. Um, it's stable pay compared to a locum job, Which, for me, saving, which was really surprising. Is that a lot? I MGs tried out the role as their first job in the N H s, which was reading us to work alongside them. Um, but also, some people who had not met the requirements is poor training. Either had too much surgical experience or otherwise used it as that ST one year, and some people did two years in the same trust or years in different trust, and then a plastic for red scrubs. Um um, based on how my rotor was doing the same rotor pattern and the same experiences that CT ones ST ones. It was completely feasible that that would be an option. Um, so for those of you that are panicking about core training applications that are with the pathways out there, you don't have to just do CST thinking about the cons. So it comes where it was a full rotor work life balance. What was pretty much the same as F two. It wasn't brilliant. Trying to think about fitting in exams was a bit harder. Um, annual leave was only on your normal kind of when you weren't needed, so it was a bit harder to arrange. Um, it's full time clinical. You've got those bed pressures. You know, the business of the on calls. It wasn't a year after such. It was a busy year compared to my teaching year. That was 95 Christmas off weekends off new nights. Um, to be prepared for that because you're with a team for a year, you do feel responsible. You, you know, as you probably experienced f one f two. You ask the gap feel you are expected to give that little bit extra. Stay late for wards and theaters for list to finish. You do feel a bit more obliged to kind of chip in. Um, I'm not going to go into the morals of all that, but you probably are experienced at some point. Um, and then the other thing is being aware of time. And it's That's the essence for S t. Three. So this was a think a lot of people weren't aware of. So I'm just going to highlight here when my page loads. So for CST, you need 18 months or less experience in surgical specialties after foundation. So an F three year is fine. If you want to do an F three, you can't have more than 18 months total. In surgery like practical experience, you can kind of do a teaching job or you're 50% clinical, 50% teaching, and that will get you to 18 pretty much exactly t three. And this is what a lot of people didn't know. So the more years that you have in CST, the more points, uh, more years that you have Sorry after foundation, the more points you are deducted in your S t three portfolio applications because they're expecting you to do more. Um, so if you see here So if you do see CT one and C t two, that's 24 months. That's fine. If you do an F three that's 36 months Post Foundation and that actually divide your portfolio scores by to the publications oral presentations and order to queue. I because they're expecting you to have done twice as much as those that didn't take the year out of the F four, is divided by three. It keeps going up all the way till I think divided by five, it gets quite scary, which is where I'm headed. Unfortunately, um, so just be aware of that. It's really great to take it every year, but keep the portfolio in the back of your mind when you're taking the eighties years out. I did. This is for general surgery. I should say that for tea. You know, it's only if you do an F four F threes don't count. You're still within the limit where it's just a normal score for urology. I couldn't find anything. So do check the specialty specific things, Um, appraisals, as Charlotte has mentioned, So appraisal is the F three or four equivalent of a R C. P. Um they aren't technically required for revalidation. If you go, I don't want to do anything for more this year in terms of an appraisal you do not have to do ever. When you get to your revalidation, you have to show evidence over the five years, and the easiest way to do that is to go here are my it? You don't have to do it, but it's worth doing, um, and do it as you go with, Charlotte said. I left it all to last minute, and it was a lot of reflecting and filling out paperwork. So it is very much on you to get used to that system and do it early on. The other thing to say is you. Well, I've lost access to it after leaving each trust, so make sure you've downloaded all your evidence on a summary of your appraisal before you leave so that you've got that for your revalidation. Sorry, my sides are really slow to laid, so my top tips for F three my main thing, is have a goal for the year. It literally doesn't matter if that goal, like for me this year, it's relax and just get my applications in whether it's I want to build my portfolio. I want to decide of surgeries for me, have one clear goal and then have, like, little sub goals. I did well. I was forced to do a P. D. P plan by my supervisor, which actually turned out to be very helpful. So I did short, medium and long term goals, and actually that became very, very helpful. When doing my appraiser, I could say, Well, I take these boxes. The other thing, yes, No picture that I put here is one of the biggest things that I learned. Join F three was learning to say no to things. You get presented with awful lot of opportunities and they get very tempting because you're thinking, Oh, that will be great for my portfolio if you have your goals and you can go back and remind yourself that I said I was going to do these things and these were my priorities, it can just give you that overview to say no to things a little bit more because that was one of the things I really struggled with. Um, so my main tip here is really have a clear plan for the year. Um, the thing is, know your worth. So don't be afraid to ask for more things. Don't be afraid to say, you know, I'm an F Ray in the nicest way possible. I can't even go and do another job. I don't think it's unreasonable that I'm asking for X Y and Zed. Um, don't be afraid to ask for some of those packs and hunt around the best jobs. Tell them the other trusts are offering this. If they want you, they need to offer it to. That's fine, um, and there's always jobs. There's always always jobs out there. And if you sign up to NHS jobs, you'll be inundated with all the fellow jobs that are going. So don't panic about timelines if things don't work out. Uh, I I think that was my final slide. I think I've got my Yeah, I got my email address on this slide. So if anybody does have any questions or if any of you turn out to do some really interesting F three vessels next year, I want to share your experience. Please, just drop this. An email. Um, I'll just get in touch Thank you. Great. Thanks so much. Rachel. That was really interesting. It was really good to hear sort of about both sides and the sort of medicine surgery side. And and to hear from you and having done, you know, some different things and what your experiences have been. So if anyone has any questions, please pop them in the chat box and we can We can answer them and, you know, with the remaining time we have left and I've just have a couple of questions that I've been thought of. I just found it really interesting. And this one's for you, Charlotte. And you mentioned that you had a day off a week for a sort of self directed learning and study. Time to focus on teaching or audit. Was that something that they advertised as part of the job? Or did you have to negotiate that yourself? And if you did, was that easy to do or not? Um, so it was something I asked about the interview within the job advert. I think it just said time will be provided, but then kind of vague. Who knows how much time or when that will be? Uh, certainly I asked specifically about. And luckily, I worked with a really lovely team, and they were all keen for me to have kind of literally a full day week to do that, obviously, as long as I was. Actually, I had a plan for that time and I was doing things, um, so it wasn't in the initial job advert, but I think Rachel said, um, those are really useful questions to ask that interview in terms of showing that you do have plans and are keen to help, uh, see what they have to offer. Yeah, definitely. And you you mentioned that you started a bit later on in the year. Was that something that you discussed an interview as well or Yeah, I was very I think the interview was sort of late June. I think, um, and I explained the think for starting December, Um, I felt that that was going to kind of drop me down the rankings because obviously they were literally missing out on someone for four months. But I think they were still really key. I mean, um, to have me and I think as long as you show that pash in behind why you want the job, then, Um even things like actually a four month break and them not having someone they're still willing to kind of consider you. Um, so, yeah, I think my advice would also just be go for it. Um, and and there definitely are more and more jobs cropping up. And there will always be something to suit you, I think. Yeah, I'm just going to check it out. I would second that. So sorry, Ellie. I don't have any experience of asking for deferment, but actually, a lot of the my colleagues who did junior fellows and surgery, Um, some of them were I MGs and they had visa issues. Um, so they had later start. So I think it's actually quite common thing for clinical fellows to have the Fed start dates. So don't be afraid to ask that if it's what you need, it sounds like a common theme is that you don't have to be trapped within sort of a certain timeframe or a certain role that there is that flexibility there that if you you know, if you think about your goals and have something that you want to do then just go for it and just ask for it or just try and do. It sounds like a common theme, so that's really good. I'm very positive that things are moving towards that way. I think. Another thing Charlotte mentions, or I don't if it's really sorry. Um, thing about time for travel? Um, and not always finding it. Don't forget, you can quit. You might be on a year contract, but in your contract, it says one month's notice is your year. If you want to do seven months, eight months, nine months and then give your notice, you can also do that just as inside. It feels very strange saying that, and it takes quite a lot of gusto sometimes to go for it. But you are well within your rights to, and I do know people have done that as well. I think for my F three, obviously, I started a bit late in December. Um, and I didn't They originally wanted me for the full year. I didn't want to be out of sync again just because I wanted the teaching job in August, so I did end up sort of giving my notice. But under very like friendly circumstances. They were all very understanding. So again, there was no bad blood from me saying, Actually, I'm going to leave a few months earlier, just as long as you know, you're kind of notice, period. Um, and, um obviously, that's still giving me nice references and things like that. So it definitely doesn't mean that just because you need to leave earlier, for whatever reason, that they're gonna hold that against you. And I suppose that's the benefit of working in a team for a long period of time. They get to know you and know that you're a good egg, and they're still happy to write, You know, good references and things because I think that is a fear that people have it. If they quit early, they won't get a reference for the next job that they need. Um, such really interesting to hear that they were still really positive about that. And Charlotte, you mentioned that you locum a bit during one of your years as well. Did you do that on top of the clinical fellow year or, um, so that was during my teaching a half clinical, a half teaching half acute medicine. So it was only a few shifts here and there or often I would tack kind of evening, uh, uncle shift on to my normal day. Uh, and again, that was very easy to do. On top of what was doing. It was only via the internal bank of where I was working. Um, and definitely I wouldn't advise sacrificing yourself too much to do a full job. And look, um, on top of that, but just kind of topping up here and there. I found that helpful alongside the actual job. And I think, Does anyone else have any questions? Honestly, feel free to to pop them in the chat box. Um, I was just thinking that Charlotte, you're sorry, Charlotte providing your questions. But you mentioned that you did nonresident on call like that to me. Sounds as a an F three level doing nonresident on call in in palliative care, which is especially you hadn't done before. Like did you Did they give you extra training for that? Or did you have seen your support or, um, yeah. So there was always a consultant on call as well. Um, and definitely particularly beginning. I always rang. Rang them pretty much for advice. Um, it was quite intimidating, because you are, um, and I found that often, particularly the beginning. I was quite anxious and often not sleeping particularly well at home thinking, Oh, God, Was that my phone? Um, but actually, it was a really useful experience. And And as I gained more experience through the eight months, um, I definitely felt more confident to be able to triage things at home. Um, so it was both problems at the hospice in terms of anyone who became unwell but also problems in the community. So gp or, um, ambulance service. And there was always senior support, which they kind of were able to again as they gain more confidence. And you yourself kind of they're able to ease it off through the year. I'm actually as part of my I m t. My next rotation is in palliative care. Um, chose it because I love palliative care, and I'm going to be doing nonresident on calls again. So actually, it was It's gonna I think, be a really helpful experience having done it before, So I know a bit more what to expect now. I've got this time. It's good. Yeah, And I think a question for both of you. How have you found that they're doing a clinical fellow year has shaped helping you with sort of future career aspirations and knowing what you want to do. Long term, did you find it beneficial? Um, so I can go there. So, um, I wasn't sure whether I wanted to do palliative or palate L g p with palliative specialist interest, but definitely my eight months I That's what I want to do. I want to work in palliative care. It really cemented that for me. Um, And then again, the extra experience. So I never considered having teaching as part of my future career by having done a bit of teaching in the F three and then even more in the F four. Um, it's definitely something I want to build in. And then overall, um, definitely during f one and F two are quite intense, particularly because covid was at that point as well. Um, and I felt like I didn't do enough kind of portfolio building, So actually, having that kind of slight foot off the brake focus on things I actually care about within each job and be able to build up some portfolio. That also shaped me. Being able to get into I m. T as well, Definitely. Yeah. So for me, it was massively helpful in building my portfolio and the target areas that I needed help with. I think it also gave me such an insight because I've done a lot of surgical jobs. But it's been four months with this team, four months with that team, or one day a week during my teaching for a year. So having that full time experience with the team and doing it the whole year really gave me more of an insight into the career. Kind of going to read and consultant level, Um, sometimes of decision making going forward that was so helpful in my career choices. Brilliant. That's really good. It sounds like really positive experiences. Yeah. Um, do you have any questions? No, we don't do any. Either of you have anything else that you'd like to add? I don't think so. I just say, go for it. Like see what's out there. Turn on the notifications on NHS jobs, and if something takes your fancy go for it. You can always turn it down if it doesn't work up to be what you want. And I really think they're becoming a lot more common now. And I think pretty much if you could design yourself a clinical fellow job, it will be out there somewhere in somewhere that you want to be and things like that. So I would definitely agree. I still get notifications now with all the, like, clinical fellow jobs and things. And actually, um, yeah, just keep looking. You're if you want to go somewhere in particular, feel free to contact them. And I've even known people where they've built a job around the person If you're really keen, so yeah, just go for it is also my advice. Brilliant. That's really good. And I'll just put this up. So, um, that's been really great. Thank you for all for joining us tonight. If we don't have any other questions from the audience sent, then we can sort of finish things there. And but please make sure that you feel in the feedback form. I just sent that now on the chat and and you'll also get it sent as an email. So that's really helpful for us to know what we're doing, right? What we're maybe would be good to add in in the future. And and like I mentioned at the start, we run this twice a year. So if there's anything more that you want to see from us, please let us know and we'll try to incorporate it. And when we come back to, um in the new year, um and then next week we have a lot of the same sort of thing. We have the teaching F three. So that will be a really, um, useful insight into the teaching side of things and how to get the most start of a teaching fellow f three. So make sure that you join us next Wednesday at seven o'clock and thank you so much to our speaker, Charlotte and Rachel. You're both fabulous and really interesting to hear what what you got up to and it's been really useful advice. Hopefully for anyone thinking of doing clinical fellow year all very positive and sounds like if you want something, you should just go for it and and don't hold back, really. But thank you very much and we'll see you soon. We'll see you next week. Okay,