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sorry. I just don't meet myself. Everyone can see that. Okay. Yeah. Good. Okay. So as so in case you asked me to get a little chat about my experience of going through all of this. So I've tried to keep it kind of to the things that I've picked up and learn as I was going through the process. So hopefully some of it will be useful, and some of the cakes already touched on a little bit and they'll be in detail. I'm sure about some elements of it later. Um, so most people I don't know most people, but just a bit of background to sort of contextualized where I've started from. So I was in east of England. Damien Training. Um, I did my fellowship training for one year in not even, um, And then I'm currently a consult at the moment in West Suffolk. And that was since September 22 is when I first started. Um, so I guess the question that naturally how did how did I get here? Um, so I think with this whole process, everybody is a product of the I S t. P, Whether you like it or liver um, but it's there. And, uh, you know, you have to work for all those curriculum requirements that in the background. And I think I didn't really appreciate that much at the time that you can make your life easier by getting these things done early. Um, one thing I did manage to do during my training was identify my subspecialty interest quite early on. So by ST five, I decided I wanted to be an upper limb surgeon to do shoulder and elbow, which did make a big difference to the latter half of my training. Um, because I could identify that early. I was able to essentially manipulate my last three years to make sure that I did as much of the limb, uh, surgery possible. So it's very fortunate being able to go to the program director with a clear plan of what what I wanted to do. Um, which I think goes back to some of the things that Kate was saying about fellowship really? In that because I've had that additional exposure, essentially, for the best part of almost half of my training had been in upper limb surgery. Um, I went into my fellowship interviews and then subsequently my fellowship with with a really good background of experience, um, broad set of things that I could do and also that ability to do some independent operating, which was really important. Um, thing about your registrar training is an old cliche that it's a six year job interview. But in many ways it is, um, as a dean, every trainer, you're obviously discussed regularly. You have your A, r, C, P s and the surgical training committee meetings. But all of the experiences that you have in hospitals are always discussed amongst amongst the consultants throughout the region who do educational provision. Obviously, that's the good and the bad. Say you've got to remember that all of the placements that you're going to um you know, I would suggest that you treat them all, irrespective of where they are and what you're doing, as is exactly the same, and go in with the same work ethic that you go into something that you're looking forward to doing because at the end of the day, when you come to work in a department that it's not necessarily the technical ability that they're looking at, that's important But it's how you are as a member of that team going forward. And if you can demonstrate that during your training that's that's that's a massive advantage, I think, um, I've put the extras in there by that I mean that obviously the I s C P is designed to show that you're competent in the orthopedic curriculum. Uh, and with the new changes to the curriculum, a lot of the mandatory requirements that were there for people like Aaron and Kate and I are all gone now. So this is the sort of value added stuff. So things like participating in the teaching programs, you know, undertaking positions of responsibility such as, you know, rate of coordination, things like that with interest. All of these extra little bits now are not part of the mandatory sign off as robustly as they once were. But funny enough, these are These are the things that when it comes down to an interview or writing your application form, these are the sorts of experiences and and things that they're looking for. Um, so it's important not to neglect those things, um, things to consider. This is very similar, really to to fellowships when you're thinking about jobs. You know, when I came down to thinking about where I wanted to work, these are the things that essentially going through my head. You know? What? What do I want to do? Not not just in terms of subspecialty, but within that subspecialty. What? What kind of surgery did I want to be doing? Did I want to be doing things like elbow replacements, which are in specialized centers? Do I want to be doing infections? Do I want to be doing tumor surgery, that sort of thing? Or am I content just with a standard shoulder practice? Uh, in a in a hospital, where Where? I have a good work life balance and a reasonable one call. So all these things are important to consider. Um and that goes right back to that. That thing that Kate was telling us about in terms of fellowships and that you really do have to think about this stuff early because not every fellowship is going to prepare you for the jobs that you that you might be looking to apply for. So you really do have to bear that in mind when you're thinking about what it is that you want to do. Not just I want to be a hip surgeon or a shoulder surgeon. But what specifically are the things that are going to keep me interested in wanting to work, You know, for the next 25 years, or say where that essentially can be down to Do you want to be in a big teaching hospital? You know, with an academic interest, you know, do you Do you want to be taking on the kind of cases were discussing the tertiary referrals? Is that the sort of thing you want to do? Or do you want to want to be in a more district general kind of setting where you have a bit more of a general practice but still being able to do some of the specialist stuff that you're interested in the geographic wears are there as well. There's all those considerations similar to the ones that for fellowship Where do you want to be? Um, in, uh, within the region. Do you want to be out of the region? Do you want to be abroad? So these are again things you need to start thinking about because it's easier within a region to to know what kind of jobs are coming up. But if you're looking outside of region, you need to start networking to to find out what kind of things are coming up. There is a reality in that. You know, sometimes it's often easier to get a job within a region because of the things I've said already that people know you you've had experience with in it. It's easier for you to talk about the healthcare kind of arrangements within that region than than trying to get a job in a different region. It's not impossible, Um, but certainly things like that would require a bit more work and networking prior to going to to interview. And then when you timing is everything, unfortunately, consultant jobs, and that goes again right back to sort of midway training. When I decided that, you know, I wanted to hopefully stay in the region, and this is what I wanted to do. You've got to start looking at where jobs are coming up. So all these things are important, and that does tie in a little bit to to your fellowship training. You know, you might choose to do an additional fellowship or something like that just for things to work out in terms of timing, um, the process. So it's It's a very odd thing, really, because there's a lot of around consultant jobs. There's a lot of rumor's of this jobs coming up. This person's retiring or there might be some extra funding coming up. So it's keeping yourself here to the ground and listening to out for things. But it's being persistent, but not to the point of pushing this. When it comes to investigating these things, Um, often you will be told things if you're lucky enough to be, you know, the job coming up somewhere. You want it, You you will hear things naturally that there's a job coming up, that sort of thing. Um, and you have to show you that demonstrate that interesting willingness that you you want to commit to that place. Um, but it's not been too pushy about it, but you do have to persist because, um, for my experience, where I'm working now, I I knew that a retirement was coming up, but there was no sign of a job advert coming out, and I was. It's slightly embarrassed but lucky enough to be offered a job in the hospital. I was doing my fellowship in, but it wasn't where I wanted to work. But you still do Start getting a bit worried, you know, thinking Well, if I don't go for this one, will there be a job? So you do have to persist with people and keep talking to them to make sure that things are moving along to a timeline, that you're hoping to work, too. Um, it's quite difficult when you come to it to remember what being interviewed is like. You will have had a fellowship interview, but, um, they're on a totally different level of consultant interview to one for your fellowship, which I know is going to talk about later, so I won't dwell on that. But it's You have to start putting your mind set into a thing of selling yourself again, which is quite difficult. After six years of training, where you've been quite comfortable, people know you know what to expect, but you need to need to start getting into that mode of what, what the interview is actually going to be like. You have to remember that nothing is guaranteed. This whole thing is a is a competitive process. Um, so it doesn't matter who you are, whether you've worked somewhere before they loved you, it doesn't matter. You still on the day or in a competition with somebody else. You don't know who else is going to apply. So you've really got to remember that you have to approach this as a competitive process. Um, be, you know, reflex in a way, in preparing yourself to be the best candidate on the day. Um, now, for me, that's I'm not naturally that kind of person. But I had to get myself into a mindset that if this is what I really want, I've got to work for it because nothing is guaranteed. You have to have an element of this within this whole process, irrespective of what you may think is going to happen that you have to prepare for the worst, the worst being that you don't get the job on the day. Um, so for me, when I was looking at, uh, my consultant jobs again, it's partly to do with the timing and interviews and things, but you do have to start thinking about what? What if I don't get it, Uh, area. And that might be looking at alternative consultant posts, which come up. What I did for my, uh, when I was looking for a job, although I had an idea of where I wanted to be was Have you can set up on NHS jobs and a job alert which will email you every day. Any consultant paste that's coming up. So you always keeping an eye out for things just in case, you know, you either don't the job doesn't work out. We're expecting it or you're planning for the, you know, the worst. If something doesn't come up and you don't get it, um, that can be looking at things like another fellowship. So I've actually extended my contract at Nottingham. Uh, in case I didn't get the job at the West Suffolk because because I thought I still needed to, you know, put food on the table and things like that. And it's just that little buffer having that buffer there. No one minds if you if you turn around and say, Look, I've got a job. I'm really sorry. I'm gonna have my resignation. They half expect it a lot with fellowships. Um, so it's not the worst thing to do. But you do need to think about what you're going to do if you don't get the job. Um, time we've talked about this and a bit already, and it it really does. All this stuff does take longer than you think when it comes down to it. That's not that it doesn't come around quickly. As Kate said, Um, uh, I always think that training was always a little packages for me. So it's the first three years. It's quite exciting because you're starting to do what you wanted to do. Um, and then all of a sudden, the exam comes around that totally consumes your life, and then you've got to think about fellowships, and then all of a sudden you're applying for a consultant job. So things happen quickly. Um, uh, And when you start to come to look at the forms and things that you need to fill out for the application, it it is a long form, and you really have to put some thought into it. So the most important thing, I think you need to do when it comes to that is set set enough time aside to do these things. They definitely take longer than you think they will to complete. So I wouldn't advise trying to write your consultant application, you know, on the weekend before the submission deadline. You often have, you know, at least a couple of weeks in between the job being advertised in the closing date. Um, but you do need to put the time in to do that and all of the application forms. And Kate and I worked quite closely together doing our application forms, and they were very different. Um, so it's not assuming that all is going to be the same. Some have word limits. Some ask different questions. Somehow you free text. So it's It's really having the time to to work on that form. Um, because that's really what's going to make a difference when it comes to short listing, which I'm sure will come into later. For that reason, I've put on their find a friend or free the more people you can share it to, the more feedback you'll get on your form and your answers. Sometimes you when you've been looking at something like this, which is very long and time consuming. You can get yourself a bit stuck and in the same kind of rut, not really being able to express what you're trying to say eloquently enough on there. Um, so having somebody else who's going through the same sort of process or someone who has recently been for it, it's really helpful. Um, you know, just having someone look at something else with a fresh pair of eyes and looking at your CV whilst you're doing it can be really useful, because sometimes there's something that you might not think is important or or you're underselling. Perhaps, um which, you know, a friend or a colleague looking at can make a massive difference to remember, certainly with my form. There's things where I had played down certain bits of what I've done throughout my training, in terms of extra things, Uh, and then it's just getting someone else to have a look and really g you up and say no. Come on, this is it. You've got to sell yourself here. This is a really good thing. Um, timing comes into it a lot again with preinterview visits. You know, if you're lucky enough to be shortlisted, Um, you do have to make time in your fellowship or whatever you're doing to to be able to go and visit these places. There's nothing more important than doing that. I don't think particularly if it's somewhere you've never been before. If you're coming from the next as an external candidate, you won't have the luxury, perhaps of working there before. People might not know you, so you really do have to make an effort to go and meet the right kinds of people. I'm not going to dwell too much on this, because again, I know there's a talk coming up about preinterview visits and who it's important to me. But what I'm trying to really say is that you know, all of you have to factor this time into into whatever you're doing in advance to make sure that you you've you've got time to that. Now you do get some professional leave normally for most jobs for the interview itself. But not everywhere will give you professional leave to go and do these preinterview visits, so it's about taking annual leave. Make sure you got some annual leave back that you can use that because not everywhere as accommodating as some other places. I think the key thing as well in terms of using your time is too is that it doesn't matter how well you think you know a hospital. Um, you know, you really do need to do your homework about the department, which you may know very well, but there's things that you don't necessarily think about or a private e, uh, when you're a registrar, such as, you know, the strategy of the department, which direction it's heading in the wider implications of what the trust is trying to do within a bigger system, such as the integrated care services. So you really do need to do your home homework on this type of thing. Um, and it's not just about the department you're going to work in. You've got to remember that these interview panels, which Jones going to talk about, are not made up just of orthopedic consultants. There's a broad range of people there, so, uh, you know, the chief executive and the medical director are going to want you to talk about things like the values of the trust and things like that and what the trust mission statement is and things like that. So you do need to spend time, uh, doing a bit of homework on on the wider hospitals, a whole, but also the specifics and that the detail of what? What the department's trying to achieve, I think when I was doing it and I felt I knew where I was coming to work quite well, but certainly doing a pre interview visit with the clinical lead from the departments gave me some things then to go away and read about. But I tried to make sure I have sufficient time to to use the information that I gained from these visits to to really sort of build up my knowledge of of what I was letting myself in for when it when it came to the interview. Um, on the day, um, when it actually comes to, Hopefully, if you get an interview, be early, don't leave things to chance. What I did here very kindly. One of my colleagues now on the day I came in before about a week or so before my interview, and I actually went up to find where the interview was going to take place. Um, that was partly say that on the day I didn't get lost, Uh, I knew exactly where it's going, but also it was strange way. It's quite nice to see where you're actually going to be, So you feel a bit more comfortable about the room. I don't know if that would be possible everywhere, but certainly getting an idea of the layout of where you're going. If you haven't been there before, you don't want to be coming in and being stressed. Um, again, we're gonna talk about the interview separately. But one of the best best bits of feedback I've got from my interview was you know, that I I came across as prepared and that I'd, uh, you know, clearly thought about all of the aspects, um, that you need to cover for a consultant interview. But I didn't come across as scripted. You've got to remember at the end of the day that as I said to you earlier, all this stuff that's begun, you know, six years ago at the start of registrar training, when you're you're moving around and people start getting to know you and talked about you. It's you're looking for a future colleague, Not not just someone who's technically okay, but someone who's really going to contribute to the department, you know, to help deliver the games of what the department's trying to do and someone you feel you can rely on. So you want to get your personality across in that interview? Well, as well as the kind of things that you need to know such as the, you know, about planning and in the future, in the department. On the day, I I'm sure you stay Or should you go, uh, on the day, normally, you find out on the day if you've got it or not, not after they've done the last set of interviews. Now, I stuck around where I was, but but only because I was hateful to get a job. I did. It was lovely coming back, actually, to meet everybody after I got the job. Um, which really made me feel, you know, excited and, uh, ready to come into a department. Yeah, have to stay, particularly. It's somewhere miles away, and you've got to be at work the next day, but it's quite nice to be able to just so you can go and meet your future colleagues and and And you know, as Kate said, it's important sometimes just to take that little bit of time to celebrate what is a really big achievement. So just feeling sort of what I've said, Hopefully I'm not waffled too much. But the things that I kind of think were important to me was, you know, I don't think it's ever too early to have to plan these things and how aspirations of where you want to work. Yeah, you know, as I said, I've always approached every job I've ever had, Uh, exactly the same, whether it's doing something I'm interested in or not because, you know, it's there's all these non technical things and and that, you know they're coming across and get your personality and that that that are important and just as important as your technical ability. Um, people do talk. Okay, that's the reality. You can't help everybody talks. So just remember that you always been watched in such as some degree. Um so things don't go unnoticed. Um, think about what you want to do. As much as aware. Sometimes people get so fixated on wanting to work in a particular hospital, a particular area. But you've got to remember that you're you're going to be doing this job for a long time and that that you want to make sure that whatever you're doing, you're going to be able to keep yourself interested and keep yourself excited about coming to work. So it's important to think about what all the way back to when you're applying for fellowships. To get that preparation that you need to be able to get the job where you want to do your research. That's the main. That's very important. I can't underestimate um, you know the importance of that. It really does show when you come to an interview if you're not prepared. So, you know, make the time to do that and make the time to to really work on getting your application really well. And I think the most important thing is always feel free to ask for help. I certainly wouldn't have got to where I've got to now, without help from other people. Um, you know, we're very lucky that we work in in in a Dean Ary where we've got a nice, accessible consultants and colleagues who will always be willing to help you. Um, so I guess that's all I wanted to say. Really? Uh, that's useful. Thanks, Mike. Um, any questions from anyone? Nothing in the chat box at the moment or any comments from faculty. I mean, what Mr done is failing to mention is, is that he did stick around after his interview, but he went and bought a house. I did buy a house. Yeah, that's confident. Anything anyone wants to add? Confident, elaborate. Okay. And somebody asked me about somebody asked a question about fellowships that don't work and very memorably, about 10 years ago, there was a candidate who was telling us about his amazing fellowship in Adelaide. Now it turned out that we had in the interview committee to consults who'd actually done fellowships in Adelaide. And they knew perfectly well that this individual had done a fellowship at a private hospital where he was reasonably compensated. But it was what they tended to call a Langenbeck, and he would not have been lead surgeon on a single private patient. Now, of course, he did not know that they knew exactly what he done, and unfortunately, he tried to spin out that he was doing a lot more than he really was. And I think there was a real danger. Do not underestimate the people on the other side of the desk. They have been around a long time, and they know people, and they know people who know the people that you know. So you've got to You've got to yes, big yourself up as might set, but don't exaggerate things you'll get found out. But I think that's a really important point to make, isn't it? Is that actually orthopedics is a small world, and, uh, no one is appointed without these background conversations that do occur. Um, so do you consider your jobs as interviews? Because you never know when the people you're working where they're going to be called on to give a comment on what you're like to work with as a colleague. And I think that you're talking about researching fellowships beforehand as well. I know someone a few years ago who again went to Australia to one a real big names and left it after four months because he was getting too absolutely nothing. He's a great name to have on your CV. Didn't know operating whatsoever. So that's the importance of the research before. Lovely. Why you're there, Mr Rooney. We'll carry on and Aaron is going to talk to us about preparing your CV. Thank you.