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Summary

This medical professional webinar focuses on leadership fellowships, offering insight and advice from a diverse panel of current and ex fellows, such as a colorectal surgeon and a consultant community pediatrician. The panel will discuss their own experiences, backgrounds, and motivations and give tips on how to effect change in the healthcare system. Attendees are encouraged to take part in the Q&A session and chat box to ask questions about the fellowships and their impact on careers.

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Learning objectives

Learning objectives for medical audience:

  1. Understand the benefits and challenges of taking a leadership fellowship during medical training
  2. Demonstrate knowledge of the various types of fellowships and their benefits
  3. Identify skills needed to effectively lead and affect change within the health landscape
  4. Describe practical approaches to optimizing clinical care through initiatives such as podcasts, critical care expansion and sports safety
  5. Assess personal readiness for taking a leadership fellowship and discuss strategies for balancing clinical commitment and leadership time.
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Computer generated transcript

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The following transcript was generated automatically from the content and has not been checked or corrected manually.

Okay, so we will watch. We'll wait a few minutes for the participants to join Kim. Is there a twitter handle for this? As in Twitter, handle for the webinar specifically or, um, no, but we we kind of normally tweet from the FML m tsg account so you can follow that one. Okay. Yeah, I've tagged you in a few things, actually. Just Oh, hang on. I've directly will we get the recording of this later? So yeah, that's a work in progress. But we're hoping to make a landing page where all of these recordings can go. But they are being recorded and will at some point, the, uh the available Yes. Mhm. Yeah. Just wait a few more minutes trying to be so people are slowly joining, but, um so I will welcome everybody. So welcome to, um I think this is the eighth webinar for the TSG. The trainee steering group of the FML M. Um, so the so This webinar is basically all about leadership fellowships, and it is to essentially kind of give you an overview of all the different types of fellowships that available. And to do that, we've got this fantastic panel of both current and ex fellows who are going to tell you about their experiences. Um, and kind of the things that they learned and any advice that they may have. And we're very privileged to have a really diverse panel of people from all sorts of different fellowships, but also different backgrounds, including nursing, Um, H P s and and also doctors. Um, So what we're gonna do is, uh, introduce everybody. Everybody's gonna introduce themselves, talk about their background, what their fellowship is. And then we've got some questions. Please feel free to, um, in the chat box. Ask any questions and I will try and feed them in. And we'll, of course, have a question Q and a session at the end as well. Um, with the opportunity to ask questions either via the chat function or also, you could amuse yourself and we can invite you to ask a question verbally to the panel. Lovely. So first of all, we're going to start with Greg, who was joined us from Scotland, and Greg is going to talk to us about who he is and the fellowship that he undertook. Uh, thanks, Kim. Uh, thanks for the invite and f l m f m l m. As well. Uh, I'm Gregory Qasem, a colorectal surgeon in Scotland. Um, I think I'm the only Scottish representative on this panel. Um, so I am currently in ST eight in Colorectal, just appointed to a consultant role up here doing robotic colorectal surgery. Back in 2019 2020 I under check the Scottish Clinical Leadership Fellowship, which is similar to most of the fellowships that the other members of the panel will go on to talk about. Um, I guess one important thing to start with is why I choose to do it, and we'll touch on that a bit later. But like most people, uh, both on the panel and those listening both now and later, we've all gone through the frustrations of, uh, working on the health service. Obviously, there's a lot of good things, but we know that things could be improved. Um, and there are sort of low hanging fruit, some easy wins, uh, which gets in the way of our day to day, uh, working life in terms of delivering patient care. And from my point of view, um, the biggest frustration was the fact that we generally have very little say in, uh, the environment that we choose to work into. My biggest motivation was to ensure that I and colleagues of mine had, um the experience, the exposure to the leadership table, Uh um, and getting the skills required to be able to affect change where we're required and shape the environment that we're, uh, that we choose to work in. Uh, So I signed up to the program. I spent a year working with the Royal College of Surgeons, November as well as the Scottish government up here, Um, you will all know that 2019 and 2020 was a bit of a unique time in in our lives. Um, So I went into the program having a lot of ideas. And with the college, one of my biggest, um, drives was to start a podcast service, uh, which, from that point of view, was it was creating a new medium through which we could communicate with our members and fellows. And thankfully, we got that off the ground just after covid. It's called the Less Talk surgery podcast. It's on Spotify in every service close to check it out let me know. Um, but my big biggest work was with the Scottish government. And whenever Covid came along, uh, I had to drop all the other work streams I was working on. And my role then became, uh, leading a team, Uh, together with the 14 health boards that we have in Scotland, uh, to expand our critical care service. You all knew that when we watched what was going on in Italy, what we could see was there were a lot of patients that couldn't get access to critical care because, uh, the service wasn't quite prepared for it. But also, they were overwhelmed. And so we try to ensure that that was not going to be the case in Scotland. And so there was a colorectal surgeon. It wasn't about my, uh, specialist interest there was about being able to lead a team and work with a bunch of individuals from critical care clinicians, the public health colleagues to what we got here called National procurement medical directors, chief executives and shares of the different boards. All driving through the same common goal was was to ensure that no patient in Scotland are required. Uh, critical care bed did not have one throughout the pandemic, and that was a success over time. And after that, because of the success with that, I was asked to help with other elements of the pandemic response, particularly palliative care expansion up here as well. Um, and then came my passions in which was around sports. And we knew the time that, uh, grassroots sports elite sports wasn't, um, happening for for good reason. But we thought there was an avenue to restart sports safely. And so I took on the clinical leadership role within the government to restart sports, working with colleagues from England and and Wales and less so Ireland. But essentially we try to create, uh, an environment through which elite and grow through sports could start again, including football and rugby, which again was also success. So, um, that essentially was my year. Following that, I continue to wear clothes. Scottish government and still do to this day as a clinical advisor still continue with the critical care rule, but also the elite sports for as well. Trying to combine that with the clinical commitments obviously has its drawbacks. But the biggest learning is that it's not necessarily about your being a subject matter expert. It's about having the conviction, the commitment and, uh, the motivation to affect change. And I've managed to take some of those learnings into the health board that I work for the moment in trying to change things one small step at a time. So I'm hoping everything I've learned I'll continue to put it to good use, both in my current health board, but also when I take my next role, Um, I'm sure we'll come to asking other specific questions about the fellowship, which I'm happy to talk about in due course. I think my three minutes is well and truly up. Self stop now. No, thank you very much. That's absolutely fascinating. And and it's clear that that fellowships had about an impact on your kind of future trajectory in terms of your career as well, Which is which is great when I'm sure we'll come on to talk about later. Um, there's a question from one of the from Christine in the audience, who asked, How did you decide when to take time out of training to undertake your leadership fellowship? Given the need to keep up your surgical skills. Pretty good question to my thought process was, but I think for you know, you can effect change at any stage throughout your career. But there's just something about being towards the latter stages of your of your training. That means that you're done. So I I made a point of finishing all the competencies that were required by SSX knowing that seven and eight would be a time for me to explore what I want to, uh, knowing that you've either finished or done most of what you need to do to C c. T. I think it takes some of the pressure off and you could focus on this, uh, full time. It also meant that I didn't have to come back to do clinical work in that year. And I just invest myself and leadership program. So my journal advices do it after ST six or certainly do it in the last two years because then you can just continue with the momentum into your consultant practice and keep going. I think if you do it as an s. D two s, d three, uh, depends on how long your specialty is. You potentially have another 56 years of trying to chip in, um and yeah, I think when you're towards the end of your career of your training, I think you also have a degree of responsibility amongst trainees. But also, you're more likely to have avoid, but it doesn't mean you can't have one as as an s d three orange, even training. But I just think towards the end, it is much better. So I advise after ST six researches. And in your last two years for others. Thank you very much. Um, great question, Christine. Thank you. I hope that answers your question. Lovely. Thanks, Greg. Okay, so moving on then m m e. So m e is from the Eclipse Fellowship, which is a a regional fellowship in cancer in Sussex. But she's going to talk to us a little bit more about herself and about that fellowship. Hi, everyone. My name is Amy. I'm, uh, general Pediatrician, but I'm practicing as a consultant community pediatrician within the Medway area. So I am currently doing Eclipse Fellowship as it's the one year fellowship program. I started it in September 2021. So it will finish this September 2022. I had already done prior direct lips, um, management course training program. And I had attended a few like session with the FML m as in the links, or read the things that come up from the management, uh, courses they've had. But my, um, educational supervisor suggested the trips fellowship, so I said I would have a look at it. It was he had gone through my portfolio. And like, although he was aware that I had done like a leadership training course, he felt o as in, I was like, ST seven and a bit that Oh, it would be good to have, like, a formal leadership kind of projects, not just an additional, the one you've done. So I decided to have a look. Now, uh, Eclipse stands for embedded clinical leadership program. And it's a one year four, um, and during that, I'm currently doing it, but I've been had the opportunity to do it as I've been working up, nearly always work part time throughout the second half of my train. So after getting my m r. C p c h, I then change the way I worked working part time. So, um and I started doing it in ST seven, and a bit so I had already knew where I was going in terms of C C T clothes from a competent space, I I generally had everything else except for this big, so called management course that my educational supervisor was suggested and advise it. Um, but through this Eclipse Pro program, I've been afforded the opportunity because I was doing it throughout training. I've now finished our CCT that I'm working as a consultant, but I've been able to draw. Within the time I was still in training, I was able to use some of the skills because during the during your training in Eclipse, you have opportunities to learn about co production, meet different people, have, like, practices on during the business bid, or talking with members of the leadership group within your, uh, area of specialty or where you work, or the clinical directors or wherever you work. And we're giving opportunities to, uh, experience both firsthand with the leadership team within our team and carry on projects that we can do whilst we're still working so that we can almost get as it were, life feedback. So That's one of the good things I have enjoyed whilst I'm doing this project. And another thing I've also learned is now that I'm actually out of training some of the skills I started learning or I'm learning as I've been in eclipse, I'm actually using them to negotiate some of the things I want from my current job. Like currently when I started and we didn't have a proper dictation app or to get our clinic letters done. Apparently where I'm working now, they generally didn't. They did lots of type in which I'm not quite used to. We generally work with Dictaphones or clinicians. We have a way of doing our letters that way, so I've been able to like, get it on board now. So now they've installed dictation apps into everyone's computer, which I almost feel quite proud of because there have been other clinicians there before. I joined the team and they've been been I don't know how they've coped, but they've nearly typed all their letters themselves, so you can imagine how long it's taken them in terms of returning the time of to get back to patient in the patient and getting the letters out. So I'm kind of proud of some of the things and many things I'm learning we've got. We've been using tools like Axion Learning sets to kind of feedback of each other and get ideas for our project to get things going. So, yes, I'm kind of proud. Thank you. Great. So it sounds absolutely fantastic. And I'm sure we'll hear more about it later. Thank you very much. Emmy. So also on the eclipse program is safe. So, um, so if you want to tell us a little bit about what you're doing Uh, yes. Hi. My name is staff. Um, I'm an international medical graduate. I came to u K 10 years ago. Uh, the reason I'm mentioning this if there are a lot of I MGs who are really scared of actually taking up leadership project, forget about leadership. They don't. I often see them. They're actually maintaining a very low profile, and they're trying to just have a safety net around themselves just to pass through that time. So anyways, I'm currently working. I went to a training core training. I'm working as trust grade medical registrar and acute medicine a bit about my past, which actually propelled me to take this to see in, uh is back in Pakistan. I set up a CME program for general physicians. As a coordinator, I also worked in a simulation training program set up by John Hopkins and W H. O, although they look very big. I was just one of the court wheels in the bigger machinery. Uh, and although I did get exposed to those and those programs that I was thinking that I did apply some of my skills. But I was never properly trained in in in leadership and managerial skills, like proper in a minute proper program, which I experienced when I joined Eclipse. So, like one of other colleagues have mentioned, uh, we we see around us a dearth of, of, of, of leadership, especially junior leadership. And let's be honest, we shouldn't be expecting amazing chief executive who's at at the age of pre dementia. Sorry, I'm using that word. The word like 75 or 80 years old gentleman coming and then leading us. The leadership will have to come from a very, very junior level, and it has to come from across the healthcare. It doesn't have to be a doctor or a nurse or a paramedic. It can be everyone. It should be everyone. So that's that's the one thing which, uh, I I got exposed to that to my one of my supervisors. And she was very vier mentally very supportive of this idea that leadership should come from from from the juniors. Uh so So that propelled me. But I would even though with all that experience which I'm just telling you, it wasn't that easy. I was having cold feet and I was thinking, Well, it is a faculty leadership and it is a huge program. It is something, you know, related to a proper one year. Will I be having time for this? But, you know, in eclipse, as I mean was telling it, They really guide you slowly and persistently. They just they just take you on a journey with them. And every time I attended a session, we started off being nervous, being apprehensive, what's going to happen. But every time at the end of the session, we was just getting short of time, and we had so much to say. We had so much fun in that those sessions and they're different sessions. They're mentorship sessions, their leadership sessions. And as M. E. Was explaining their session in which they kind of train you or actually expose you on how to negotiate within your service provision within your trust and the beauty about eclipse like every other program, um, is that it doesn't have to be a stand on project in which you have to carry out the project on your own and then sell your project. It is an embedded clinical practice program within the trust. So if there is, it's a mutual benefit between the trust and yourself. So you get out of that program through the strategic, uh, aims of the trust. So there is a team of the trust which is actually leading you and guiding you as well in in completing your tasks. Uh, few things I will just mention for people who are actually thinking about, uh, leadership program. So, first and foremost, please, Please, please do contact. I mean, seek out. Just just email program coordinators. Just email them And don't be shy. I think that that's the best opportunity for yourself to actually raise all your concerns. Say this is what I've done. This is what I fear. And this is my eventual aim. This is why I want to do this. Is that something which I will be possible and trust me, that's how I started it. I actually email a coordinator in this program and said, I don't think I'm fit for this. Maybe I'm not eligible. But this is what I'm seeking for. Is it? Okay? And that's how it started. So without taking much time, I'll take some questions. But I'm just saying that you have to take that initiative and you never know. Uh, that, you know, whether you actually whether you can be in that setting or not, unless you actually approach them. Unless you experienced it yourself. Thank you. Oh, fantastic stuff. Thank you. Yeah, that's why I was delighted to have both you and, uh, m e here on this on this, uh, webinar tonight because I think, um, leadership for S A s doctors, but also I mg doctors, um, is what eclipse was specifically set up for. So it's really nice to hear from your your experiences, um, and your income encouragement for kind of doctors in those positions to undertake fellowships, which is which is really nice. Um, there aren't any specific questions, Um, at the moment in the chat, although, uh, Leah, who is gonna speak shortly, would really like to know she's an O team. Would really like to know where people's professional backgrounds are. I I Whether you're a doctor, whether you're a nurse or an HP, so if you could put that in the chat, that would be lovely. Thank you. Um great. OK, moving on then, George. So George's in Australia, and he's very kindly Um uh, well zoomed in a very unearthly hour. So thank you very much for joining. Do you want us to tell a little bit about your fellowship? Yeah, of course. No, it's lovely to be with you all about 4. 22 in the morning. Um, I'm George, So I work clinically as an emergency medicine registrar here in Melbourne The moment, uh, and also as a public health Reg with Imperial in London. I'm on a year out currently, in terms of the fellowship I took. So I took a fellowship with the Healthcare Leadership Academy in 2017, and that was an academy. It was only actually set up. I was apparently the first person you ever submitted an application. I was in the first round. It was set up in 2017. It sort of. Immediately in the wake of the June doctor contract dispute, it was set up by a guy called Johann Marijuana, who was leading our site when negotiation was happening with the government. And it was set up because there was a sort of groundswell of desire that Johan had noticed amongst junior doctors and allied health birth nationals to try and get involved in leadership, but in a way that they could fit around their clinical responsibilities so ideally so that yeah so foot in the door for many of the institutions they really wanted to be involved in. But do it in a way that they didn't have to prevent themselves from progressing clinically at the same time. And I was quite excited by the concept and I got involved. I think there's sort of two main areas I was hesitant about when I first started with these sort of programs. The first is that I've always worried that leadership isn't really something which is abstract. It's often discussed an abstract way, but I always think it's quite practical and specific to local context. You know, I often worried there was a risk that you could kind of try and create a one size fits all solution, which was really unlikely to work in different context of different people, different seniority levels. And what I loved about the HLA and I still do love about the HLA is that it never went down that one size fits all line. It always had this general sense that local doctors, clinicians and healthcare professionals new, more cared more could do more than you know distant officials could in Whitehall, even when I then went on to meet some of these distant officials who were charming. But still it was, I still think that's true. The second concern I had is that I think it's very difficult to lecture someone into being a good leader. I think it's a very practical thing being a being a good leader, and it's actually you can in some ways divided down into very specific skills that you can develop over time. And the HD is completely brilliant for being deeply practical, so it never tries to be didactic and lecture you. Um, it's based around eight full contact days throughout a 12 month period. So you become an H Day scholar after a competitive application process. Uh, places are obviously free at the point of access. It's all funded through health, education, England and some money through W H. O. And when you get onto the program, you go into a cohort of 15 or 10 to 15 people who will be based with you and you meet up eight times during the year. Eight full contact days. Um, some are entirely virtual summer mixed virtual in person, some all in person, so it can be flexible. Um, some have shorter sessions and slightly more, but broadly, it adds up to a full contact days throughout the year to be as flexible as it can around your rotors. And when you're doing it, you have sort of two main things you're doing. One is a practical project, and that's of your own choosing. You can have one from a big menu options, which they give you, or you can choose one entirely yourself, which they will completely support you on, Um, and along with that practical project. You have eight full contact days and in those you're being, uh, like, intensely tutors on how to do these different things. So if you're being taught how to negotiate, you'll have a government level negotiator sitting with you, making you negotiate with someone else over and over again until you get really good at it. If you're I need to learn to do public speaking, they'll put you in front of a room and they'll make you do public speaking over and over again until you actually can do it properly. Do it confidently. Do it. Well, um, I still remember when I was being taught to speak on camera, I had a BBC journalist, uh, with a real camera crew and a not thankfully, not broadcasting with a real camera crew in a really, uh, studio filming what we were doing and making it sort of playing it back to me and making me watch it over and over again so I could make sure I was I was aware of how I was coming across. Um, I think that was really powerful for me, Um, in terms of the effect it had on my career. Um I mean it lead me into public health, which then I've been to the Department of Health and Public Health. England. So I was involved in the vaccine rollout, Um, and some of the PPE procurement stuff, which was really interesting at the time. Um, it's had a huge effect on my life. I mean, full disclosure. I'm now involved in helping to run the organization on a voluntary basis simply because I believe in it so much. Um, and it's expanding rapidly. So in terms of the project I was involved in, I'll be very brief because I'm going to run over time. Um, we've expanded into a lot of cities around the UK and Europe, and we've just started working very closely with the Ethiopian Medical Women's Association under the approval of the department director of Health and Ethiopia, which was really wonderful step. And we're just agreeing now to work at 50,000 doctors in India. We say we're expanding internationally very rapidly. Um, and it's just a lovely environment to be because it's a group of like minded individuals who want to try to make things better. We don't know what it's like when we feel that we can't make things better and having a big group around you, sort of bringing you up, inspiring you, holding you to account, trying to make you as effective as you can be has been just the most wonderful thing. So that's why I got involved. And that's the effect I had in my career. I'd love to take any questions. Gosh, absolutely fascinating and very inspiring you've made me want to do. And HDL a fellowship will become an HLA scholar, but oh, fantastic. And also really interesting to see that they taught you specific leadership skills. Um, so the public, you know, the TV kind of experience in the public speaking, etcetera as well, which I think is quite unique. Really, you don't We don't often get that, do we? So fantastic. So if anybody's got any questions for George, please do pop them in the chat. Otherwise, we will come back to hear more fascinating insights into that Later. Um, thank you. OK, so moving from doctors to other very important allied professionals. So Leah is r o t. Um, Leah and I did a Darcy fellowship together a few years ago, and she's gonna talk to you all about that? Yeah. It seems like a lifetime again, doesn't it? Hi, everyone. So I'm not exactly sure kind of the audience that I'm talking to. And obviously, I guess what I talk about, you know, with regards to kind of my leadership journey and the Darcy fellowship, um, does depend on kind of whether I'm talking to a complete medical audience or not. Um, but so I'm Leah Machnik. I'm currently in professional lead, occupational therapist with an acute mental health services at West London NHS Trust. Um, interestingly, I I worked at West London, um, and then kind of went on to do my Darcy fellowship, sponsored by West London, and then promptly left the organization to go work. Middlesex University. Um, but but came back a couple of years ago. Kind of mid pandemic. Um, I think for me, the Darcy Fellowship was really interesting. I think the Darcy Fellowship originally started off as a leadership program for medics, Um, and kind of then expanded and and opens it opened its doors to kind of nurses and and and HPS. Um, I think what I found particularly interesting, um, was it was predominantly medics so this feels quite familiar to to me. Um, but also, it was a real opportunity to, um, to learn more about kind of the journey that medics go on, but also to educate and raise awareness about kind of the role that HPS and other kind of professional disciplines could play in a their own leadership journey, but also kind of thinking about specific projects and ideas and and check change and how to make that happen. And how needing kind of that full multidisciplinary kind of Byeon was so important. I met a lot of people in my Darcy fellowship who A had never really understood what occupational therapy was all about, Um, in particular because I worked in mental health, a lot of kind of surprise about the significant role that O t s do kind of play with the mental health. Um, I think from a from A from a professional and a personal point of view. Um, So one of the questions I know kind of that that came previously was kind of when When is the right time? Um, as a single mom. Um, I can tell you that there's never a right time Um, And I remember, um, kind of, you know, arriving. You know, in a group with a lot of kind of single people who are all up for drinks after, you know, after work and everything, I'm really feeling like, you know, do I fit in? Is this you know, Is this the right kind of leadership kind of experience for me? Um, but actually, learning so much from colleagues and and and, you know, it really was a positive experience. And although it was pretty intense, I would say the year was very intense. Um, I think it was intense for all of us for for very different reasons. Um, I think from a from a professional point of view, it really helped me, um, be able to articulate kind of my role as an occupational therapist. Um, but also, I guess, gain confidence in my leadership abilities and feel like I had a place, um, at the tail, Um, as it were, um, to think about how how HPS in general could contribute to, you know, to service improvement and to change into leadership at every level. Um, and that in particular, has kind of taken me forward in my, you know, in my career, Um, I think so. I'm I'm I'm now step stepping into a new role, actually, next month, um, as HP lead within cams. But I think, um, doing the Darcy Fellowship really has given me confidence. Um, yeah, in in being able to kind of articulate and and think about kind of where, where my role lies, I think following the Darcy Fellowship, my my the my project that I did as part of the fellowship was was almost less important than the leadership skills and the experience of being part of the, you know, part of the fellowship. Um, So the project that I did was specifically looking at kind of improving and increasing student placements as a result of that of that project. You know, we we introduced within West London and the role of HP education lead. That role has now doubled, and we now have to, and there's a real legacy, um, to that project. And of course, it's amazing to kind of look back and think, Wow, you know, I started that, but actually it was less about the project, so I I probably had about five or six project ideas. It was only six months in that I really decided kind of what I wanted to do. Um, I think what it is given me is the confidence to jump into different projects and really take things forward in, uh, things that I kind of believe passionately about. Um, one of those things was around. Someone mentioned the covid vaccination program. Um, so I was a real kind of supporter of HPS who who who were able, um, to be trained up to, um, to get to give vaccination to and support the covid vaccination rollout. Um, it was the most terrifying thing I've ever done. Having never stuck a needle in anyone before. And I learned to kind of vaccinated, and I think took a lot of HPS on that journey with me. Um, and I think I think that yeah, that that confidence to be able to kind of jump in and and and do things like that came from, you know, the leadership journey. Oh, thanks so much for that, Leah. Yeah, I can relate to. Well, we did the dance, the fellowship together, didn't we? And I I can relate to an awful lot of what you you said there. But the confidence aspect of it was it was a huge thing for me as well. Um, it just gives you a platform, Doesn't it? Gives you It gives you some backing and something to, you know, as a step on the ladder of the leadership world, which kind of gives you a bit more confidence to go forward and apply for other things. So, um, but yeah, it was really It was a real privilege as well. That Darcy fellowship was multidisciplinary. It was really nice to to go on that journey with people from lots of different specialties. And I think I was the person that never heard of a mental health ot. But don't worry. I now know exactly what you do and how important you are, so thanks so much. OK, so moving on, then, Um, if we go over to Wales So Kelly is in Wales. Kelly's a surgical training. She's going to talk to us about her fellowship. I am? Yes, I'm Kelly. I'm a S t four in general surgery and currently a Welsh clinical leadership fellow with improvement Camry. Uh, in Wales, there's about 16 of the of us at the moment and again, we're multidisciplinary and different health boards and organizations through Wales, and we've got some physio speech and language therapists, pharmacists and eighties um, my role at the moment. So I'm in improvement. Camry. Who are the quality improvement directs right across Wales. So I've been doing lots of different projects, put my fingers in all the pies. Really, um, and understanding qd methodology and the principles and how we can support at a local level with various projects, my main deem being on most so meal infections. How, eh over the organization has also been going through a strategy change at the moment. So that's enabled me to pick up different threads and explore things that really interest me, particularly patient safety and how we generate a sort of learning and improvement culture within organizations. And that's then also supported me in staying at a higher level, how the organization works and engages with the different health boards with the Welsh government with senior execs to get out their new strategy and start making their new changes as well. So it's been a very exciting role. It's been very fluid and very varied as I've been going through, um, as picking up on Greg's commentary. Obviously, he's a much senior surgical trainee, and I chose to this quite early on in my training, Uh, partially because covid was stopping all my surgery happening, Um, and partially, you know, it sort of go for that rush to get a reg number. And then I think you sort of almost need a break. Um, but it's also then allowed me to explore different opportunities. And when I go back to clinical practice in August, I'll be going less than full time, 80% so that I can continue some of my other leadership activities being a trainee rep, being on the A S g B I. Well, being lied, um, as well as doing a another, uh, leadership program alongside. And I'm happy to take any questions now or later. Thanks very much, Kelly. All really interesting. And, yeah, nice to have people from different ends of the spectrum. So it's really nice to hear from people that have done fellowships right there, kind of, you know, about to be consultants or people that have done them kind of further down the career ladder, so, Yeah, all really interesting. Thank you very much. So any questions for Kelly? Please do Pop them in the chat. There aren't any at the moment, Kelly. So we will move on, but we'll come back to what a lot of what you said later. Um okay, so, um, if we now ask Roxanne. So Roxanne is a nurse with a glittering kind of career. I read. I read what I read, what you've done the Roxanne. And it's amazing. Um, you did a topple fellowship, and you've come to talk to us about that and your experiences. Thanks, Jim. Thanks for the invite. Um, and lovely to see you all. Yes. So for my sins, this is my fourth fellowship in three years. But I won't bore you with those details, but, um, I am in the lead nursery search and more feels, um, and following my PhD as everyone tends to feel you at the table but not really at the table. And then a personal experience for me with some people may or may not resonate with on the on the call. Um, one of my consultants said to me that I was the wrong color and the wrong gender to succeed in the organization. So that was my impetus to be the person be the change I want to see in the organization and to encourage others to come along on the same journey with me. Um, so the top whole was my third fellowship. Um, along that journey. Yes, I I did a a scholarship with the Florence Nightingale, where they put you through Dorado programs are quite similar to Greg. Greg can't remember his name now, but quite similar way. They They drill you. You have to sign it off the audience and do lots of public speaking and cameras. And it's the worst experience ever. But it's brilliant for the boardroom. So in retrospect, I would, um, I would recommend it. So the top all program just very, very briefly. 2017. Professor Eric Topol was invited by the then secretary of state to look at How can you prepare the NHS workforce for digital future? And they asked three main questions. What does staff need to know in terms of educational training, what skills are required and how do we have to change our staff rules for this technological advancement. Um, and the main answers that were given is that you know, we need to include patient's and everything that we do, train the workforce and implement new technologies. And that's where the top Whole Fellowship was born. Um, so for my sins, I was one of the first top all fellows and the only notice on that program. And I was able to, you know, get lots of learning and experience with my colleagues, been able to navigate, understand problems from their cell of the table and where, and they understand exactly what I was going through, um, from a nursing perspective and possibly what our patient's we're going through as well. Um, so it was absolutely fabulous. The top old fellowship had was designed and still is designed to equip, inspire and connect colleagues give you new skills. There's a mandatory module on a I learning, which I would admit I didn't really invest in, but because it was option in my in my day. But it's now mandatory, and the way we're going with with with digital stuff is, you know, definitely something that I would encourage people to apply for and do. I will pop the top all, um, digital fellowship link into the post. Also there Twitter handle. And their next opening round for applications is autumn this year. Any questions, please? Um wow. Roxanne. That's so inspiring. Well, boy, did you show that consultant in your trust tape, Um, I'm so sorry that happened to you, but I'm so well, we're very privileged to have you here. And, um, you really are kind of a shining beacon, I think amongst having Honestly, I was very inspired by your career history to date and what you've achieved, and yeah, I hope I hope that consultants, um well, hanging his head in shame, that's let's hope so. Very came just to reiterate. Um, I don't feel ashamed by what he said. I actually appreciate what he said, because otherwise I wouldn't I wouldn't have known what I needed to do myself. So I really appreciate his feedback. Yeah, that's just my point of view. So do you think that comment was said in a sort of supportive way then, rather than a negative? No, it wasn't in supportive way, but I chose to turn it around into what I needed to do to go where I wanted to go. So it wasn't negative for me at all. So Well, you're incredibly inspiring. So, um so, yeah. What? What? What a lesson to us all. Thank you. Um, So if there's any questions for Roxanne, please do pop them in the chat, and we'll come back to hear more about kind of the top of fellowship specifics later. But it is a growing fellowship. Was it Were you the first cohort, then in 2017, Is that right? Yeah, it's a growing funny, and I think they're growing in numbers, and they're expanding quite rapidly, aren't they? Because of the need to digitalize us also. Yeah. Very important, I'm sure. Okay. Thank you very much. Right. So moving over to Northern Ireland, then we've got Mark. He's kindly joined us to talk about the chief registrar program. Hi. Thanks very much for the invite. Yes, my name is Mark away, And I'm, uh, s t seven trainee training in rheumatology in general medicine, uh, within Northern Ireland. And, um, I completed the Chief registrar program and in my s t six years. So from August 2022 August 21. Um, so the chief registrar program is run by the Royal College of Physicians. And it's they're sort of leadership development program. Um, and it has quite a strong focus on quality improvement. Um, so there's two sort of sides to it. So the one side is there's, um, 52 day modules, which are taught by the royal cause of physicians. And, um, it covers topics such as quality improvement, change management, um, sort of team culture and development, how to influence and negotiate with others. Personal resilience. So they're the main topics that they cover. It was all done virtually, um, during my year because of covid. But I believe they started to introduce reintroduce it, um, face to face. And I think I think that will be very beneficial because, uh, the other side of it is the networking. So there's a thinkers around. There's only four in Northern Ireland, but I think in the mainland and total, there's maybe approaching 100 Chief registrar. So getting all those people together sort of like minded people. Um, it's good to share ideas and experiences, um, apart from the training days. And then there's this on the job. Part of it um, so it it can be carried out, Uh, in program or out of program. Um, so I chose to do it, uh, in program, and so I didn't take any time out of my training. It all has counted towards my training. I was still carried it a long call, Rueda, But, um, the way the job is split up, so 50% of your time is designated to chief register activities, and then the other 50% is just your normal day to day specialty work. Um, so then within your chief registrar time, um, work on different projects, Um, locally. And I think it's it's very variable depending on where you do it. But, um tends to be projects on service improvement, quality improvement, medical education. So there were some of the things that I focused on was junior junior doctor sort of out of ours working, Um, some work on medical education. And, um um sat on some committees, such as the resuscitation committee, and attended some of the sort of the management meetings. Um, I think, um, it's a it's a good, uh, program in that you, especially when you're doing it in program. You're uh, there's, like, a middle leadership role. So you're you're still working with the say, the junior doctors. You're seeing some problems and then your that sort of link between the senior management team. So, um, you maintain that credibility amongst the junior doctors, the things that you're trying to change and then providing a link. So, um, I think if anyone was interested in the chief Register project, I would advocate doing it in program so that you're you're still working along alongside, but it makes it a very busier at the same time. Um, just from talking to some of the other, uh, chief registrars, uh, in the mainland, I think there was quite a lot of variation, um, trust to trust. Um, so you're provided with, uh, mentor within the organization. But I think just everybody has very different experiences, depending on the priorities within the trust. So I think if if you were going to think about doing it or apply for, it would be useful to speak to somebody locally, wherever you're going to apply to see, you know what way the Prue the project runs. Uh, So the royal College days are are quite fixed. But then the the experience I decided that it can be quite different depending on where you're working. And I think that's all I have to say at the moment. But if if anyone's any questions, I can try and answer them. Oh, thanks very much, Mark. Yeah, that's that's really interesting. I know that. A lot of chief registrars were absolute lifelines for trust during covid, weren't they? They were really a real link of communication between kind of, um, like managers and and kind of the more senior teams and then the juniors. So, um, a lot of a lot of people, um, find that because of covid that a lot of their focus was on, uh, COVID Roda's. And, um and and they had a bit of a negative experience of it. Because of that, they felt all that that they were doing was managing covid Roda's and dealing with staff being off sick in in my trust. Um, they tried to do the opposite and keep me completely out of, uh, covid and working on other projects to try and keep those guns. I had a really productive years. Other people didn't, um, but probably learned different skills so that I think that's what I mean by it being very variable, depending on where you're working. So it's It's good to If you're going to apply, find out about it more locally. Great. Thank you very much. Thanks, Mark. Okay, So if anyone's got any questions, please, Um, do you pop in the in the chat? Sorry. There's some good good questions coming from Hannah, which I might feed into the group later. But thanks very much, Mark. Okay, so moving on then to wonderful Panelists left. So, Rachel, um, so, Rachel, I'm going to get the name of your fellowship wrong. And I kids, I keep calling it that regional FMLN fellowship. And it's not that I think it's got a different name. So please tell us what your fellowship is and what you're doing. Hi, everyone. Um, my name's Rachel. I'm an s t six in intensive care. I am a regional clinical fellow, Um, for f m l n. Um, And as Hannah was saying, I think in the chat earlier, Actually, I'm in the minority in the regional clinical Fellows as a doctor, um, I work with so in my group of four. Um, there is an optometrist, uh, ot uh, senior nous and myself. So I think the opportunities are available to all all healthcare professionals that I do agree that advertising and getting it out there is is definitely needed. So I'm a regional clinical fellow, and I choose this specifically, so I could, uh, do it alongside my ST six training. So as part of intensive care, you have to do a specialty year. I wasn't particularly interested in Children, babies, etcetera, Um, in terms of specializing in that area or cardiac. I wanted to specialize in management, So I chose the Spanish because I could also do I can run it alongside, um, working as a doctor. So I'm 50 50. So do 50% of both. Typically, it's 2.5 days, so I kind of do a bit more a week, and it fits in quite nicely with our uncle rater, Um, the fellowship itself. So you've got obviously two parts of it. The fellowship is taught you have a contact session each month, so that can be on anything. And you have a whole day where you're talked on anything. So this morning for instance, I was taught on how to write a business plan. Um, but you've had sessions on change management and very similar themes to what has been said already. And then we have webinars in the evenings, Um, probably two or three times a months where we get key speakers who can come along, answer like this in a panel question answers sessions about anything to do with medicine, leadership, healthcare. We've had people from kind of outside HSBC managers trying to tell us more about how systems work as a whole, and it's been very, very useful. Um, so my fellowship itself, I am part of the A Northwest, HP and Nursing Workforce Team, which is a bit of a mouthful when I have to introduce myself. But really, interestingly, it's I am involved in a project which started out as, um, refugee and asylum nurses, um, integrating them into the NHS, providing um, providing a mechanism for anyone who is currently in the UK, um, to who has a nursing background to get into the NHS and to access, um, the same roots and the same training and get involved Essentially, um, so we created a pathway we're on our six cohort of which that I was helping to manage or lead cohorts four and five. I then, halfway through my fellowship, realized that there wasn't one for doctors. So there's a medical support worker program, and I've been helping integrate back into the Northwest, um, and leading a essentially a pathway creating a pathway for anyone who's come into the UK, um, from a refugee, a displaced individual or asylum background helping them to get through their club exams, which just a nightmare, especially with covid and the delays, um, providing them with a medical support worker role alongside that so they can have income and then integrating that all to into the trust to create rolls specifically at the end when you come out of that pathway in urgency registered. So I'm halfway through what has been quite a busy year and see okay, what everyone else has said. It is intensive, but it is what you make of it. Uh, the opportunities are there, and it's a project that you've been given or that you have doesn't work for you. Ask. And that's the one thing I've learned from this. Don't be afraid to just say, Actually, I want to do this or this Looks like a really good route to go down. Um, so please kind of go for it. Essentially. Um, so I think, um, so, yes, Hannah, I am in touch with Reach, and we're currently arranging a kind of a pathway alongside reach using other charitable organizations as well. Um, and creating a pathway through, um, for, uh, refugee asylum and displaced doctors. Um, and also creating a pathway for nurses. And we're just expanding out now to HPS and then hopefully seeing radiographers. Um, so we're trying to become a Northwest hub for displaced individuals, Just trying to create this really big network, um, to help a support the NHS because recruitment is an all time low. Covid has really had a detrimental impact upon recruitment in both the nursing sector, the H B sector, and from the doctor's side of things as well. So that's a little bit about my background. That's a little bit at the project. And that's a little bit about the regional clinical fellowship. So if you have any more questions, please. Please, you ask. Oh, thank you very much. Rachel. Gosh, that sounds so interesting and totally different to your day job to your clinical job, which I think is, um did you expect to be able to do something quite so different? Did you expect to get involved in kind of something different? We were given six topics, um, to choose from. And at this point, I already felt like forward when I was entering this because it was just like, I do not have much experience or background. I had a massive case of imposter syndrome, and they then gave us six topics which were as diverse as you can imagine. One was pediatric surgical, lied, one was refugees. And it just said refugees, Um, when we're there was just they were also diverse, and I luckily, I picked one that I totally loved, but I wanted to pick something that was out of my comfort zone. Um, probably a bit like Greg was saying earlier, getting into the critical care side of things. Um, when he's got an orthopedic background general surgery, I can't remember what you were. Sorry. Apologies, surgeon. Uh, surgical background. Uh, but yes, I wanted to pick something that was a bit out of my comfort. zone. Um but then I managed to integrate doctors back into it. Anyways, you know, really, really interesting. And I guess also kind of proves the point that leadership crosses boundaries, doesn't it? So you can just you don't have to lead in your specialty. You don't have to lead in what you're trained in. Actually, there are huge benefits to using your skills and your experience and actually having a completely objective you and going into something completely new leadership skills are completely transferrable. Um, fascinating. Thank you so much. I could ask you more about that, but I won't. I'll move on conscious of time. But thank you. We'll feed some of that in later. And somebody asked a really fantastic question, which I can relate to in the chat about. How do you first get into leadership friendships? We're gonna speak to Vienna, and then we will come into that and we'll also talk about some of the other questions in the chat and George's posted about HLA Academy as well. So all of these things I will remember I'll come back to remind me if I don't. But Vina um so welcome. Vina is not new to, um, fmln Webinar. She very kindly did a climate change. A very important climate change webinar for us a few weeks ago. But she's here to talk about her role as a chief sustainability ease clinical officers, clinical fellow, a bit of a mouthful, but a fantastic, incredibly important role. So thank you, Vina. Thanks, Kim. I'm being a I'm a GP training their background being done. G p s t one, um, in South west London. And then I wasn't really expecting to take up this fellowship, to be honest, um, I saw her when I was on the train looking at Twitter scrolling through, and I saw first cohort of Chief sustainability officer is clinical fellow scheme. And I've been interested in climate change and health, deeply concerned about the climate crisis, climate breakdown and its impact on health And having tried to do just a few little projects, um, in the hospital I was working in and I thought I just apply for the fellowship at first when I left the job description. To be honest, I didn't think I I fitted the job description and when I thought about it a bit more, I thought Actually, the things I've done could fit into this. Um, so my tip for that is just don't discount yourself when you see these things, because sometimes it's not obvious that what you've done fits into it, but actually it can. And it's not that you're twisting. It's just that it does, but it's slightly slightly different, Um, so applied and I start the job in September. So I've been here about eight months now, and it's been a really amazing experience. So how it works is, um, the NHS has a team called Greener NHS and NHS England, and there's been six of us in the first cohort, and I think that it's expanding a bit for next year. So we work in greener NHS but also work in another team at NHS, England. And I think next year some some people are going to other arm's length bodies as well, like H e or the CQC. And so we work to, um to do sustainability work in those teams. So I've become a GP trainee. I've been placed in the primary care team NHS England, so I've had a really brilliant opportunity to be able to work with the primary care very senior leaders in NHS, England. And it's been such a brilliant opportunity for me to see, um, what happens the inner workings of NHS England me to see how policy is made. And, um, I'm working green, um, NHS as well. So it's been brilliant, and I've been surprised at how much freedom responsibility I've been given, seeing myself as quite a junior person in the team. But I don't think I feel treated as somebody quite junior, which is a massive privilege. Actually, you get listened to, and you you feel I feel very valued in chess England and even though it's such a massive organization and it can take well to, you know, navigate and work out. But everybody's been very supportive. The main work I've been doing has been on inhalers. So some of you may know that, um, inhalers are quite a big source of carbon hotspot in the NHS. And there's quite a few things we can do, um, to reduce that. So prescribing lower carbon inhalers, getting people's acid, it under better control, etcetera. So we've had some incentive schemes that have come in, and we've been working on implementing those and and I've been doing a big kind of stakeholder engagement piece with organizations from relating to GPS nurses, pharmacists. So it's been quite a multi professional, um, project for me, and it's been it's been a great experience. So yeah, I would say my tip would be to apply for things even if you don't think you're going to get them. Because sometimes your surprise yourself actually are the skills you've got. Um and yeah, it's been a really great experience and I think, you know, for me, it's been so important because I'm very passionate about the climate, crisis and health, and it's the biggest threat to human health, and it's been amazing to be able to contribute in some way to that. But also I've probably learned more than I've contributed or or kind of, um managed to achieve. But it's been such a brilliant year, and I think for me I'm going to go back full time into my GP training ST to from September. Um, but I'm hoping at some point to continue with climate leadership, whether that's kind of outside of work or whether later on down the line, I'm able to find a post, Um, where I can do sustainability work part time at the moment, there aren't that many payrolls in it. Surprisingly like unless you kind of join one of the teams of all time. Um, so I'm trying to work out how I can how I can get one of those later on, But I think it's expanding its rapidly growing area. And that's much more interesting understanding of this. And actually, I think the opportunities, um for for climate leadership a massive So, um yeah, that's my bit. Is that all right, Kim? That's absolutely fantastic. Thank you. Vina. Uh, you're really inspiring, actually, that that leads us nicely into a quite a fantastic question that was asked in the chat. Actually, about this, where do you get your confidence from A to apply for a fellowship? And how do you get your first one? Because we've talked about this quite a few times, actually, amongst the TSG about how opportunities lead to opportunities. And once you've got your first fellowship, it sort of opens huge numbers of doors for kind of future opportunities. But how you get that first one can be quite difficult. Um, and obviously the number of leadership fellowships is increasing, perhaps more than it was, say, five years ago. So there are more opportunities to do different fellowships. But who would like to answer that question? Has anybody got any kind of thoughts on on how you get that first one, Particularly if you've got no previous experience? Oh, staff, you got your hand up and then we'll go to, uh, yeah, so first of all, uh, I'm not too sure about other programs. But most of these programs, which I came across, did not ask for didactic and detailed experience in management. In fact, and this is my feeling, they actually would like to have that nervous mind that that fresh mind and then they can train you better. That's actually better. But, however, just to answer from your perspective of a person who's actually opting for these programs, if you feel that you need to strengthen your CV, there are a lot of ways you can do so within your trust. So I'll give you some examples. So instead of doing simple audits, just do a quality improvement project. Go to your trust, trust service managers and talk to them and they are. They're always doing the these social events they are conducting some, some sessions there Go to your trust. Well, being team, you can always go to them. And they have always lots of events that happening, and you can participate in them and strengthen your CV. And I never again focus on your learning more than just acquiring those tick boxes in your C V. Because at the end of the day, I think your personal statement and your pash in will will speak louder than than those tick boxes in your in your C V. That's my person. Take fantastic. Thank you. And Ellie, have you got anything to add to that, uh, for me? It's been really important throughout my leadership journey to have the support of a kind of mentor supervisor who's kind of followed me through my career and encourage me every step of the way. So I think you know, if you're unsure about whether you've got the skills or whether you've got the experience to apply for kind of leadership fellows, Um, I think seeking out that support, um, uh, you know, to a think about kind of your confidence and putting yourself forward, but be thinking about kind of the application process because obviously there are. There are many, You know, we we all have many colleagues who have got kind of that additional experience of that additional kind of leadership skills that can support. Um, but I think similar to what they said, You know, I think sometimes it's just about taking the plunge. Um, I think one of my favorite things coming out the Darcy Fellowship was kind of being comfortable with being uncomfortable. Um, and I think for me that that's always been a kind of a big thing. Just just stepping into that unknown and giving it shot. Yeah, so true. So true. Um, and it's kind of learning from rejection, isn't it? Rather than necessarily taking it as, Oh, I'm not good enough. It's kind. It's about kind of using that and kind of, as you know as Roxanne very, very much has done used it to kind of, you know, to to give you that drive to do more. Sasko. Another question. Uh, no, I just want to add something. So there are some there. There are some workshops and courses ranging from one day to three days to five days. It's very good to actually go there because not only you will learn something plus minus, however, actually X plus. Plus, you will meet your other colleagues who will be attending these workshops who will be attending these different fellowships. So that's a good opportunity. Royal College holds them a lot of other private setups. Hold them there. Leadership and management courses. One day, three days, five days. Attend them. You'll benefit from them. Very true. Yeah, and linking into what venous said, actually, that when you think about it, there's more. There's You probably have a lot of what they're asking for. A lot of the, you know, on your, uh, you know, you've done without even realizing it that actually count towards an application. So, um, it's just about kind of recognizing that and having the confidence to go for it as being a said. Thank you. Okay. So last, but not least, is canna who is going to speak to us about her fellowship, Um, and how she's actually continued some of that role as well. Uh, thanks, Kim. And so Yeah. Hi. I'm Hannah. I'm a ST five. An emergency medicine. Um, currently in Manchester. And I did one of the national medical directors fellowships with F M L m last year. So that was similar. Seem that Rachel as talks about already, Um, except I did a full time year out, so no clinical. Um, although pandemic related, I did kind of sneak in quite a few clinical shifts. Um, so I was placed at the G. M. C. Um, and as part of that fellowship, you can be placed at a multitude different organization. So we had some colleagues at BMJ. Lots of NHS England. Um, h quip. Huge amounts of kind of variety. Think a royal cause of ophthalmologists. Um, so there's lots of different variety, and I think what was is really good about the fellowship is that you can kind of tailor it to your interest. So we had some people on the cohort who, you know, we're really keen on a fellowship and probably less bothered about what organization it was. Um, there was some people who had a particular interest and wanted to therefore be in a specific organization. And then you probably had a you know, a few in the middle who were had a few kind of key ones that quite like to, But we're kind of easy as well. I have to admit, I am. I'm a northerner. And as much as I love coming down to visit London, I didn't really want to relocate. So for me, having the option of Northern fellowships was really important. So the G m. C. Has offices in Manchester. Um, and I have quite an interesting education. So I wanted there was an education role at the G. M. C. So, um, I didn't really want to be too involved in kind of fitness to practice and things like that. So, you know, I did kind of set my sights, and I have to admit, I didn't actually rank all of the the different, um, fellowships because I I didn't want to relocate. Um, there are also ones in Leeds, Um, and a few kind of and now, obviously there's the regional option as well. So it's great that you have, like, such a different spectrum. And my fellowship was mid pandemic. So despite thinking I was gonna have a really nice year, um, of not having to wear scrubs because I'm the only any doctor that actually hates wearing scrubs. Um, I didn't get that to go into the office and spend most of it from my bedroom. These exact four walls which, you know, working in big teams from emergency department to then, you know, you're bedroom also, when your husband works from home and you're not used to that dynamic was a very interesting year, but we survived. And actually, you know, I've learned a huge amount of skills from working virtually that I really didn't anticipate, you know? So, actually, now, when I go on the old webinar and some people have only done a couple of things virtually, I'm kind of a bit confused when they still can't find the mute button. Because, you know, I did we We got all that out quite quickly. Um, I'm working an organization where you still haven't met people is bizarre. Um, we actually had the g m. C conference yesterday, and that was the first time I met a lot of people. And that was now, you know, I did it last year, and I've said I've actually stayed on two days a week this year. So that was the first time in 18 months, and I met people. And from somebody who loves talking to people, I actually find the virtual world really, really hard. Um, I really miss the water cooler chat and the chit chat. Um, I hate that moment where you're silent until someone starts speaking. And so there's been lots of learning around that, um, in terms of the actual fellowship and what I did as part of that. So, um, the way I was describe it is it was half personal development and then half kind of project work. So some of the personal stuff is very similar. Rachel said the FMM put on days, um, mostly monthly of the I think sometimes we have two days and then Mr Month, um, around kind of development. Um, and there were ki kind of skills and things that we did as part of that, and that was great and great to kind of have alongside what you were doing then from the kind of g m c. Point of view. Um, I spent probably half of my time just giving my opinion, um, and contributing. So there was a couple of us at the G M. C. And we would just get asked our opinion on various different things, you know, from the emails that you may have seen, you know, Claire Marks, Um, and now carry, you know, would send out to support the profession. At times, you know, we would pre freed those and actually, you know, it sound so silly, but it's just pulling up little things. So there was one that talked about a R C E P, and it was going to medical students. And we were like, Well, the medical student, you know what an A R. C. P is? And there's little things like that that may be a really tiny, but actually that lens in your inbox And the tone isn't quite right where you get antibodies to. So actually having that kind of clinical review is really important. You know, there are more senior conditions with the G M. C. But they're probably less, you know, they're not really on the ground. As much as kind of We were have been so lots of things like that. And then the other thing was, I've been involved in two projects, which again is kind of why I stayed on because my projects carried on, Um, one of them is review of GP training. Um, so how GP training is quality assured. So that's involved talking to G. P deans, Um, in all the different regions. Um, and that's been really interesting again. Someone else kind of said coming from that, I obviously I'm not a gp. Too training. Um, but actually, then I could ask easy questions. I could ask the stupid questions because no one expected me to know was I think I've actually done that with an emergency medicine. I think I have found that quite stressful. So actually, having that novice nous, that's not why? Don't know. It was really great. The other thing that I've been working on is, um, the PA National exam. So for physician associates that are coming under G. M C regulation, um, they have to have a national exams at point of entry. Um, so I've been involved in writing the content map, so that's not you know, each individual question. That's what should we be testing on what areas of communication? You know how much should be respiratory. How much should be cardiology again. Clearly, I have no background in this. Um, but what has been involved is bringing together experts and facilitating that conversation. So hosting workshops, Um, so lots of the skills that I would never, ever really thought I would have kind of would've headlined as a fellowship like this have actually been the things that I've learned bringing people together, you know, being able to kind of speak up in meetings. Um, learning kind of how to softly influence Know what I've started to realize as well. This is probably one of the big things is, if you want to get something through a big organization like the G m c. You know, you you actually have to talk to people before you go into a meeting, you have to warm them up, um, and then that the ideas aren't cold When you go in particularly, you're kind of trying to suggest something a little bit controversial. So there's been so much learning, and I will shut up. But you're happy to take any questions. Oh, no. Thanks so much. Hannah. Uh, it's, I think, as somebody somebody else mentioned, but it's really fascinating, actually. The the role that you're that you're given like when you do a fellowship. It is. It is a proper job, and and sometimes you can be given an awful lot of responsibility. And it's not just about, you know, being on work experience for your for your ear, is it? It's actually being in the thick of leadership and and and the problems and dilemmas that you encounter And you are often viewed quite senior in your organization's, um you know, I think they have, like, an organic gram in the G m C, which was like all I did for the first month when I'm speaking to anyone, but, like, who are you? And actually, I think we'll put it like associate director level, like we were seen as quite high and you feel like a child. But actually you're not viewed like that. And I think you have to kind of step up to that, actually. Yeah, really good points. Really good points. Thank you so much. That's so thank you all for speaking and talking about your fellowships. Um, we're almost out of time. We've got 15 minutes kind of ish left. So if there's any more questions, pop them in the chat. So that we make sure we get to them because some of them may be fantastic questions. There's a few specific ones being asked about individual fellowships, which I think people are doing a great job of answering in the chat. But one of them is is is asking with regards to kind of the flexibility of fellowships and whether they can be extended. Um, so I I guess. I mean, it's every fellowship is individual, um, to my they tend to be on a 12 month basis. Um, but as, uh, as Rachel has kindly put in the chat, you know, some of them can be flexible in terms of the amount of clinical you might do or the amount of, um, uh, leadership stuff you might do. I don't know whether you want to expand on that, Rachel. Um, okay. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. No, no, no. It's absolutely fine. So yeah, it's a year long duration, but so their definition of 50% probably gave me a bit of wiggle room because actually, they were requested that you do 60% But if you base it on a 48 hour week, which as as a medic, that's how we scale our weeks. Um, you can actually do a little bit more, so I'm actually in their eyes. I'm 60%. Um, supposedly 24 hours or 60%. He knew, Um, And so in their eyes, I'm 60 40. But in my eyes and my boss's eyes and my paycheck size, I'm 50 50. Um, which makes it a lot easier than me, because I think one of the downsides for me, which I didn't truly appreciate before I started doing a 50 50 split, actually does take quite a bit of your paycheck. Um, and I don't know whether things are going to change on the clinical fellows, the regional clinical fellows. Um uh, position. At least we've had a lot of issues with secondment pay, so being paid were paid a band. I think it's banned six contribution for 50% or 60% of our time. Um, which, if you have a mortgage and you're used to being on a different salary, you have to have some quite stern words with your mortgage advisor. So I would recommend, um, looking at the funding for if you're going part time and just making sure that it financially fits, considering the current economic climate, with you being able to work because it's really difficult when you start to try and do Lucan shifts on top You don't have the time. You barely have the time to do the course material, especially with some of the full on projects. So that's one thing I would mention. No, that's really important. Thank you very much, Rachel Kelly. I was just going to add as well, that in Wales. We obviously it depends on your fellowship, but we've had a few now take maternity leave part way through, um, paternity leave. So you know you're not confined to do it Within that year, they'll sort of put it on hold, even if you're sort of six months through and then you can come back and do do your other six months after you leave. Um, and other people who've asked to go less than full time have just had them months I did on to their fellowship as well, so that's something to discuss. But it is an option, and I think as well a lot of people have found obviously working from home or in the flexible working obviously you can do different hours. More hours, particularly. You have family arrangements or other commitments to work around. Often you can shift those a little bit as well. So it's always always lots of options. So I won't let anyone be put off by that. Oh, no, thanks for that, Kelly. That's really important as well. And I guess I guess in the nutshell. Then there is a fellowship for everybody. Um, and so make sure you look at that. Um, Kelly, you've put in the chat about the fact that you've got Welsh improvement fellows who live in Surrey. So it's really interesting that it's not, You know, sometimes you're not as constrained as you might think in terms of location. And Hannah also talked about how, actually the you know, fellowship opportunities across the UK have extended significantly compared to a few years ago. I mean, I remember when I applied for a Darcy fellowship. There wasn't an option to do anything like that anywhere but London and it. And it wasn't It wasn't that long ago, Leo, was it really? I mean, it was it feels it feels like a lifetime, but it wasn't that long ago But it's amazing how, in five years the number of fellowships on on on offer has just hugely expanded. Um, George is still here, but poor George in Australia in the middle of the night. George, do you want to add in about kind of the HLA and and kind of how they've actually really kindly extended the deadline? Yeah, So just to say, um, the haste television academy is currently doing its application around at the moment. In theory, it did actually finish on the first, but I pulled some strings because I realized it's a bit mean to tell you all about this and then tell you that it's at least a year to You have to apply. So if you would like to OK application in the next two weeks, Um, all the details on that link I posted in the chat also feel free to just message me in general. I don't know if it's possible. I'll share my email address. Just drop me a message. Um, I'd love to hear from you because, you know, the more people we can get on board and encourage the better, So yes. Oh, thank you very much. Thanks. George. Okay. And that's very kind of you to extend the deadline. Thank you. Um, okay. There was a really important there was a really important point made in the chat which is relevant to Roxanne and, um Leah, Really? But it's about how we specifically increase fellowship opportunities for a H. P's and non doctors and and perhaps more than that, how we kind of encourage them to apply. Um, I just thought it'd be really nice to pick up on that, because I do think that's a really a really, um, important thing that we need to kind of consider because a lot of these fellowships historically have been quite medical. But it's nice. As Rachel said, to hear that there's more and more non doctors involved in these, um, so I'm I'm happy. I would I would try and speak about this without getting on my soapbox, because I do feel and I think I put in the chat. Um, it's not only about kind of the fellowship opportunities, it's also about looking at kind of the structures within the NHS and the leadership opportunities for HPS for nurses. Kind of, you know, after we've developed our leadership, you know, So skills and abilities and and and kind of share ing that, you know, with with systems within the n h s. Um, I think, um, from from my point of view, um, it's really about kind of HPS a knowing about the opportunities that exist, but also stepping up into those opportunities. Um, And I guess my, um you know, if I'm talking to kind of my my panel members and and and other medics, maybe in the audience, it is about kind of raising awareness. And, you know, if you have, you know, we all work in multidisciplinary routines. If you have an exceptional you know, HP or someone that actually, you know, you see, that has kind of leadership, you know, abilities or striving to develop those to, you know, to take on that role, to encourage and mentor and support them in their leadership journey. Also, I think it's really important. Oh, sorry. Fantastic. Thanks. Lia. Um, yeah, my dot c project, actually, at the end of my year was handed to a physio who did, uh, in all honesty, a much better job than I did. So it's true to look outside your normal box. And and Roxanne, you you gave the fantastic line. If you can't be what you can't see, that's what I found with the nursing team. Um, we have we will to 37.5 hours a week, but it's more. Come in, do your day job and go away. We are giving protected time or even our job plans. There's nothing like, you know, study, leave or research time or anything. It's completely different. Um, the AFC banding is completely different, so we need. As Leah said, we need to encourage our colleagues to be able to take on this role. And if you see someone pull them along with you, you know they're quite happy, some of them to to give up their you know, their day off or whatever to do after hours calls like this. But we just need to encourage that and actually let them know what's available and that there's the support because they would like to do it. But if there's no one to hold their hands, have them to complete a application form. I mean, we've all been through these two page long application forms that you know, you literally. It appears you to complete Band five or a band six nurse who has a you know, a basic degree is not going to be able to do this. They need to support and and help to take them along. So if you do see someone, please do great. Great advice there. Thank you, Roxanne. Um Okay, so we've got, um, less than 10 minutes left. Um, if anybody has any more questions, then please do pop them in the chat. Um, I think I'd like to end on sort of a nugget from everybody. Essentially with the question, Um, what advice would you give for anyone considering a leadership fellowship? We have, um we've covered a lot of this, but it be nice if we had a final sort of nugget from everybody just to finish with. I don't want to pick on people, but is it? Does anyone want to chime in? You're going to have to pick on people, Ken. Okay, Greg, do you want to go first? I shouldn't have said anything, should I? Um my my advice, usually at the end of these is, um it's fairly simple. Really. It's, um You've got to dare to lead. You've got to dare to make a difference. And if you do and you're committed, you'll be fine. But except that sometimes you might fail. And if you fail, then do so gracefully and bounce back cause we all go through that at some point. But you'll get there eventually. So stick at it and commit to it will be fine. Oh, fantastic. Thank you. OK, moving on. And Kelly, she's the top left on my screen. Um, I guess you know it is if you're if you're thinking about it, you're interested. Speak to people as going to apply. And I just think, you know, simple one line. You miss 100% of the shots you don't take, so give it a gay. Thank you. OK, Mark, I think my advice would be to look for opportunities. I think every every time you put yourself forward or something, another door opens. Um, so I think just participate in things that you've that come up would be my main advice. Thank you very much. Yeah, it's about not missing them, isn't it? Having the confidence to apply and not missing those opportunities? Um Okay. Vina, I um my advice would be that you might not think of yourself as a leader, but if you're passionate about things about something and you want to change it, then you are a leader. So just go for it, take opportunities, and also make a record of things you've done and try and reflect on them and keep them organized. And therefore, when opportunities come up, then you'll have a record of what you can put your application. Very good advice. Very good advice. Yeah, George, Generally speaking, I'd say a really big part of leadership is showing up. And so the fact that you're here today is a really good sign. Really? Um and that's true. When it comes to the H day, we look really favorably on people who are present and want to be involved. Um, that's my first point. I think generally I'd really echo the point about not succeeding at things that's completely normal and happens to literally everybody. Like I've never met a successful person who hasn't failed it. Fantastic number of things together, um, specifically with the HLA just to say, get involved in whichever way you feel comfortable. So either apply this year or get involved with the confidence which is usually held at Amnesty International or the HLA Summit or the H D events at the House of Lords. Just get involved in any of those If you Google HLA go to any of the events. Obviously all free to attend and we'd love to see Well, thank you very much. I'm very good advice. They say Don't know if you've never been rejected for a job. You're not challenging yourself enough. Um, so yeah. Good advice to live by. Okay, staff. Hi. I'm going to tell you three or four things. Uh, but then I'm going to tell you that there's one more thing which is more important than those things. So, yes, I'm reiterating what others have said, Uh, seek out opportunities, uh, seek out guidance. Uh, and, uh, what on your portfolio and your c V like if you once you start making it, you realize and it's a good thing, it's a good thing that you feel bad about it at initially like Okay, this box is empty. What should I do about this? Okay. I don't have any research experience. I don't have What should I do with, in my given opportunities to gather more management experience. But all of these aside, there's one ring to rule all. Sorry, I had to give a little, uh, analogy. And as Roxana said, the pash in you need to close your eyes. You need to actually imagine yourself standing on that podium, being that leader, being the head of department, being the research lead, being whatever. Just imagine yourself that passion is important. So all of these things will not matter if you're not passionate, if you don't believe in yourself within yourself that, yes, I can do this or you're not ambitious enough, that ambition will be driven by your passions. That's what I have to say. Very good. Thank you, sir. Thank very inspiring. Okay, Right, Rachel. So I've decided that you've all joined a leadership or management role anyway, and I'm going to tell you the advice that I wish I had been given right at the very beginning of my fellowship because the fact that you've turned up here means that you're interested already, and that is about work, life balance. And I think this is something that resonates throughout all of our careers. It's really easy once the ball starts to roll to take on lots. Um, but I think especially in this kind of burnout era, it's really, really, really important, Especially with the fellowship just to manage your time. Um, make sure you leave time for you. Make sure you balance your work both. If you're going to do clinical work and you're going to do the fellowship and even if you're just doing the fellowship purely and you you're not doing the clinical side of things, it's really easy to take on too much. So just check yourself every now and again and and just make sure that you're you're working within your capacity and give yourself time out. Very good advice. Yeah, The timing of a fellowship is hard, isn't it? You've got one year to do it all, Um, and it can certainly be incredibly well, Yeah, incredibly stressful. But, um, so being boundary is important. Thank you. OK, Hannah, I'm going to take all of these bits of advice that everyone has said because I think they're great. Um, so mine would be fined your cheerleader. Um, So whether that be a senior person or whether that just be like a really good friend. And so I've got a great friend who's, um, nonmedical. Um, but she's just a really good friend. Knows me really well, and I will send her stuff. And she will also just push me to kind of go for things, um, and will help me. I'm dyslexic. So spellcheck my applications, and it's just really, really good for a that support, but also from those question earlier on about people saying, How do you get your first step on the leadership ladder? Actually, it's people that know you that will also be able to say, Yeah, well, actually, you've done this, this and this. Why don't you talk about this? Because I think sometimes we forget what we do, and we'll help you pull out the learning from it. So, yeah, find? Find your cheerleader or cheerleaders. Very good. Very good advice. Thank you, Hannah. Okay, Leah. Um, so, first of all, thank you so much, Rachel, for talking about self care and the importance of self care. Massive, massive, massive, um, kind of topic in general, but something that we all tend to forget. I think my nugget would be kind of what I said previously, Um, start being comfortable with, you know, feeling comfortable with being uncomfortable, I think because in in that places, where kind of real growth, um, an opportunity can happen. Thank you. Very good advice. And last but not least, I think I don't think I've missed anyone else. Roxanne, I really hoped you'd miss me. Um, like, I literally have nothing else to say. It's fantastic advice on the phone call. Um, put in the chat box is gets to start off after your your your yellow brick road. Um, you know, start the path to happiness. You've already identified that there's a clinical problem or there's a problem with your leadership style or you want to learn more. So therefore, you know that the world is your oyster. Just describe it with both hands. Oh, thank you very much. Oh, absolutely fantastic. Great nuggets of advice. Um, this has been this has been a whistle stop tour of fellowships of leadership fellowships. Um, I think it's probably just important to say as well that leadership fellowships might not be for everybody. So you might do a leadership fellowship and actually decide that leadership is not your thing, and that's okay. But you don't know that until you until you test it and try it. And fellowships are a great opportunity to do that, Aren't they? To then navigate your future career And what what might interest you? So just one tiny part to add at the end, just in case. Um, but thank you so much for the panel for coming from across the world and across all four corners of the UK Um, really inspiring really fantastic fellowships. Hopefully, we can, perhaps here in more detail and in depth at some point with some of the specifics with collaborative events, um, in the future. But thank you all. If anybody has any questions, I think we will be able to kind of send the emails of the panel so that you can ask them questions and receive any advice. Um, and obviously you can always contact the TSG if you want any advice about leadership fellowships or opportunities. Um, that might help you and support you in your career. So thank you to our panel. Thank you very much to everybody for coming. Okay, that's Kim. Well done. Thanks so much, Kim. Thank you.