This on-demand teaching session is relevant to medical professionals looking to pursue a career in medical research or specialties. Attendees will be walked through the application process of the SFP program and gain insight into the pros and cons of the SFP program. Through the guidance of Tilly and Angus, both graduates of the program, attendees will learn the structure of the program and what to expect during their interviews, as well as be given guidance on job security, CV/portfolio growth, and the support of an academic supervisor. Additionally, the session provides advice on pursuing research alongside the UKFP program.
Generated by MedBot


Session 1 of the Team SFP national teaching course will give an an introduction to the SFP, identifying the key components of the application process and the programme itself. It will provide a basic understanding of how the the SFP application system varies within deaneries.

Learning objectives

Learning objectives for the teaching session: 1. Recognize the purpose and benefits of the SFP program 2. Develop an understanding of the structure of the SFP program in various deaneries 3. Analyze the potential advantages and disadvantages of pursuing an SFP program 4. Understand the application process for the SFP program 5. Identify how SFP participation can aid in furthering academic or research careers.
Generated by MedBot

Related content

Similar communities

View all

Similar events and on demand videos

Computer generated transcript

The following transcript was generated automatically from the content and has not been checked or corrected manually.

OK. I think we'll give it a start now and people can just trickle in. So um let me just get Angus microphone on Angus. Can you hear me? Yeah. Can you hear me? Yes, perfect. And I'm just gonna presume everyone can hear us. And if not, please message in the chat. OK. So today, um we're going to talk about what is the SFP program. So just a little bit of an introduction, my name is Tilly and I'm doing the SFP in and I went to the University of Edinburgh and I'll just hand over to Angus. Yeah. So my name is Angus. I also studied at Edinburgh with Tilly and I'm currently doing a FP program in Newcastle in the Northern Deaner. Um So just in terms of a bit of background to this teaching series, we're basically just aiming to help you through the application process. Um We did it ourselves last year. So we feel like we're in a good position to uh sort of talk you through the, the different show involved in it. Um But also this session particularly is, is just trying to give sort of a neutral approach to whether the A FP is a beneficial option to you. So we'll try and give sort of a, an unbiased opinion of the A P. Obviously, we're both on the program, but there are pros and cons to doing it. So we'll just sort of uh walk you through that and, and help you weigh up. What's the best decision for you? Yeah. So I just want to say we can't give you specific information about what was in our interview. Um But we can kind of provide guidance of the rough um structure of the interviews when we have the interview session and kind of what we applied with and like what we got offers with. And we obviously have, I have quite a lot of people in the SP community we know and we can kind of shed some light on some different deaneries and all the information we provide is from our own experience and sort of for this year's cycle. It's me looking at the website. So you need to make sure that you do the research yourself and don't take anything we say for sort of for gospel. I would say, I think often things can change quite quickly. So keep checking the foundation, schools websites because they can be quite tricky to navi it. So I'll just hand over to Angus. OK. So firstly, uh what is the SFP? So it's the specialized Foundation program which is formally the A FP, the academic foundation program uh, and the only reason they've changed the name is it now doesn't have to only involve research but it can also be teaching or leadership in management. Um, but essentially you're following the same UK FP, er, as every other graduating, er, doctor except you have a bit more protected time and a bit more support to pursue specialist interests, er, of your choice. So it's a really good opportunity to, to be your, build your CV and also work with experienced clinical academics in the field. Um And the way that the way that's presented depends on the deary, um As you can see here, the structure of the program varies. Um So some, you'll get out of the six blocks, you'll get one whole block, uh which would generally be an fy two, some, you'll get a block each year and then some will just be an afternoon, a week or a day, a fortnight. It, it really depends on the deary and again, uh you can find out all this information on this specific deary website. Um So just in terms of what you do during the form four month block, uh because I think before I applied, I was quite unsure. Um and it doesn't necessarily have to be a project, for example, leadership management. I find it a bit strange that as an F one, you're a very junior and yet you can take up a leadership role, but that can also encompass courses so you could do a PG cert or other qualification in leadership and you could also take up a leadership position in societies or er, medical school boards. So that would be sort of how that would present itself. Um And one final thing is uh the project, sometimes it can be pre allocated depending on the deary. Er, but other deaneries will be a bit more self directed and you'll have the freedom to pursue your interest. So, next slide. So yeah, so I've covered some of those points there, but I think the main reason you should apply is if you have a specialist interest. Um So if you've been involved in research during under undergrad and you want to take that further, um or equally, you have a, an an interest in a particular specialty, say, for example, uh you really enjoyed your S and gyne placement and you'd like to, you know, study do a particular project in endometriosis and, you know, put in four months of time into this then that that is also a reason and that would obviously when it comes to uh specialty applications further down the line, that would, that would help your portfolio and it's just an extra thing to speak about interviews. So, yeah, so as I said, you get, you'll be allocated uh an academic supervisor which will generally be a consultant uh with research experience in that field and they're there to sort of guide you and point you in the right direction. Um And just, it, it's nice to have that 1 to 1 time with someone that's senior because I, I think it's quite difficult to get that otherwise. So, yeah, so I've mentioned it's an opportunity to grow your CV and portfolio. And also if you are considering an academic career, then it's a really good stepping stone um for the AC F and that sort of pathway going into professorship and phd S, which is obviously a lot further down the line, but it's something to consider. Now, another benefit of the A FP I would say is uh job security. So I think it, it's quite nice to know where you're going earlier in the academic year. So if you are successful with the application, you'll be informed of your place in January. Whereas, er, UK FP is slightly later in the year and also, especially this year with it going through a, a random allocation process, it's, it's really helpful to be guaranteed that Deanie, um, because obviously this is the first year we've had the random medication process and I don't think anyone quite knows how that's gonna play out. So this can be a really good opportunity to, to secure the location you want, uh, as opposed to entering that sort of that lottery. And the similar point is an, a point which I don't think I'd really considered before the A P is you're, you're almost guaranteed a central hospital. So I think a lot, a lot of people don't realize but when you get, given your jobs you could be in, uh, ad GH, or, you know, an hour or so away from a city for one, if not both years of your placement. Um, and some people might enjoy that but for a lot of people they want to be in a big city. And I'd say in a FP, you're, you're almost always in the central hospital because that's where you've got access to the, to the academic, er, resources and, you know, you're within the university itself and then just sort of uh on the flip side of the coin, ob obviously we are biased because we're both on the FP program, but I, I wouldn't say it's the be all and end all. Um Obviously a lot of people, uh they, they just go on to the normal UFFP program and you can still, er, pursue research or teaching opportunities alongside that program, especially if you've been in, involved, involved in projects as an undergrad and you already have those links with uh clinical academics. There's absolutely no reason why you can't continue to pursue that interest alongside the UK FP. So, um just trying to offer that, that other approach to it, I definitely agree. Um But yeah, so you can always do research, even if you don't want to kind of, if you don't get in a position or you don't want to apply. You can always do things that can help your portfolio for the future. And also as an F one, you're obviously working quite long shifts, but there's also quite a lot of off days because you work weekends. So there's opportunity and there is time and lots of consultants will be happy to help you with, with projects and research. But just so for my A FP. So it does offer you quite a lot of benefits. So I get funding for a course at university. So I'm at Brighton University. I'm going to do a PTCT. Um but you could also do another sort of course, maybe a statistics course or something like that that you're interested in. So Brighton and KSS and we, so that those two dear are paired, you get a pre research block. So I um I'm doing research and hematology, which I am quite interested in and that's in F two. So you kind of when you do the ranking, you rank all the jobs and they're kind of preset research. Whereas Angus, for example, there's like just the block is just called research and then you have to seek your own project. So you, you're interested in sort of surgery and and breast cancer. So you're doing a project on breast cancer and looking at breast surgery um benefit other benefits of the FP. So like Angus said about the location. So I'm in the same hospital for two years which has a lot of benefits. So often hospitals are a bit disorganized and like knowing how to do things, getting to know people on the wards, like different staff members makes your job a lot easier because even now being kind of working for a month when you call up radiology and, you know, the radiologist, they're more likely to help you to do your job. Um, I also think it's quite a lot of support, um, which is really nice. There's lots of, sort of allocated time for us and there's lots of, depending on how keen your supervisor is. My supervisor is very keen. So he's kind of holding my hand through lots of research, which is good. I think I know if you think you have a set thing, a set interest in one research, you might not want to apply to one that sort of has pre set research blocks, but whatever research you do, you can sort of apply to an application any specialty further down the line because I think I quite like hematology, but I'm also interested in anesthetics and even in my four month block and F two, I think I'm gonna do a hematology project and maybe do an it project as well. I think it's um definitely not, it's not a bad thing me having doing some hematology work. Uh And then even if I'm not necessarily interested in it because you can apply those skills to sort of any, um, specialty. So, yeah, I think it is a really nice opportunity to have to do and I think it's a lot of work to apply, but it's definitely kind of worth applying. And also it's good to kind of go through the application process because it's very similar to sort of job applications, process it further down the line. And Angus, and I definitely learned a lot about kind of what the sort of things they're looking for. And it definitely kind of gets you into thinking about sort of specialty training further down the line. And for all of you, you have, unfortunately, this new algorithm and it will provide more security than just sort of like the random number generator they seem to have decided to use. So that's really nice. I think lots of our colleagues doing F one have one year in a central hospital, one year out. So in Brighton, you don't, if you're not doing an A FP, you don't get to do two years in the center, there are benefits to that though. I think working in a smaller hospital definitely has its benefits for, of teaching. You have more responsibility and so you probably get a better sort of general doctor, whereas in the bigger hospitals, you maybe get more like niche things. So maybe more interesting, but I would say in a sort of district general hospital, maybe you improve your skills, be better. Angus is also just he's doing two months, 24 months research blocks. So if you kind of want to do a FP, but may not want to spend eight months out of your F one, it's definitely something to consider, but there's lots of different deaneries and they all offer slightly different things because for example, Scotland sort of an afternoon a week in F two. So there's lots of things to think about. So how you apply. So I'm not sure if you've been given your oral logins yet, but it's through the same, it's one big application for the Normal Foundation program, the SFP and um the, the foundation priority programs, you can only apply to two units of applications. So some, some are joined. So Severn and Peninsulas, that's like Cornwall in Bristol, they're one unit of application and KSS and be so that's sort of like the South. So like Brighton and Southampton, those two central central areas they are joined as well and you can only apply to two, unlike the normal thing where you rank everywhere, you can only apply to two. So you need to think about where you want to live, first of all. And also where what your portfolio kind of suits. And I definitely think even if you don't have anything necessarily in your portfolio or have like um sort of not necessarily publications yet or anything, there's definitely kind of the white space questions. I don't know if you've had a look at those, they're sort of like short answer questions where you write kind of like a personal statement, but in separate, on different questions and you can use a whole range of things to sort of illustrate the qualities they want. So some deaneries just to be aware, they use their own white space questions. I think Oxford did last year. I'm not sure if they will this year. Um So this was my oral last year. I realize it's quite zoomed out, but it kind of you all of your applications will kind of be on here. Uh And so the two, the foundation pro specialized foundation programs will be two separate applications you see, but for each gene, but there's one initial application form which you'll all do and that's where you put the answers to White space questions, your ranking for the normal foundation program and all your like extra um sort of points and things. That's where you'll put all of that in and it will, it's quite, it's a very easy form to fill out. So the key dates. So thing dates depend on the Deanery, but the national application opens, I'm sure you will know on the 20th September and it closes on the fourth of October and interview. Sho short list varies between units of applications. So I think I had my interview in the end of November and I this is in sort of early December, but these are just the ones for London. Um but remember to check the website. So I think I'll just hand over to Angus for choosing your units of application. But there's definitely you can kind of be a bit savvy about where you choose to apply. So, yeah, so in terms of choosing uh which, which units application you go for, I think it's sort of a balancing act of a, the, the application that suits you in terms of your interests and what they can offer you. So it's worth looking on the websites to see. Uh For example, if you're interested in doing a PG cert, whether they offer that, if you're more interested in having the freedom to choose your own projects, uh whether that's the best fit for you and then b whether uh your portfolio suits the application, because obviously it is a very competitive program to get on to. Um I think it's about 5% of the, the, the graduate jobs are in sfps and usually your, your competition ratios will be 4 to 1 up to. I think London's probably a lot higher than that. So, so you are competing against applicants who are er, in the similar position to yourselves. So I think it's just about sort of looking at your portfolio and seeing where you stand the best chance of, of being successful. Yeah. Yeah. And then another thing to look at is the num the number of programs available. So for example, I know I know, Yorkshire has 60 plus different SFP posts. Um So obviously that's, that's a big opportunity and the, the competition ratios might be slightly lower. Um And then just sort of a pragmatic point, obviously, it is gonna be your life for the next two years. So I wouldn't go to some really niche place just because it suits your, your research interest. Now, you also want to think about sort of the wider picture and is it close to your families and friends or partners? Um Because obviously you do want to have a good quality of life and work life balance alongside this program for the next two years. Yeah, I would say a lot of the SFPS are in sort of apart from a few of them, which can be in the kind of smaller hospitals, a lot of them are in the center of sort of cities because they need to be affiliated with the university. Um So yeah, definitely kind of think about where you want to live. Um Because F one and F two is kind of, it's a pretty shitty two years, but you also make loads of friends. And I think even just on the general program, if you get into an a foundation program and you're not quite happy where you live, there's a lot of benefits to going to like smaller places. The junior do doctors masses tend to be a lot more social and you tend to have more of like a close knit community with the F ones. Er, so I think kind of when you do get your job jobs like later in May, I think, don't be kind of bogged down if you have to go to a really rubbish city because there will be lots, there will be lots of other F one s going there and you tend to have a good time with them. So I've just looked at the scoring for interview short listing. So it's changed quite a lot since last year. So last year, lots of deaneries used E PM and they wouldn't even interview if you were below seven. So whereas now obviously there's no E PM. So things are going to change quite a lot I would say because there's now an A P MA lot of the scoring is going to be done on educational achievements and White Space questions. So I've kind of made a side on each, each unit of application and what they, how much they use the White Space questions and how much they use educational achievements. Because for White Space questions, let's say you have a project that you are working on, but it's not published yet. You can write about that in the White Space questions, but you will not get any points for it on educational achievements on the application because you don't have a public A pub Med ID. And so sort of the things they use for educational achievements are prizes. Um and just be wary of prizes, often they set out saying it can't just be a merit or like it has to be kind of first or second prize. It can't, it has to be sort of a winning prize, publications degree. So if you've in lots of them use that as points and posters and presentations as well. Um And so I've just sort of separated out for units of application. So these are the units that use um white space questions and academic achievements. I may have missed some, but um these are kind of the most popular ones I pick. So Kss and Wessex, they use all of the White Space questions. So just to be aware when you check the website, some deaneries or units of application use only certain white white space questions, but obviously apply to two. And if there's one deanie that uses all of them and one dean that only uses three, you have to fill in all of them. But if you're only applying to two deaneries, if you're applying to both deaneries and they both only use like the first two, just put N A in the other ones, you don't need to fill those out. But obviously in the application, they'll still be there. So Kss and Wessex use White Space Space questions and academic achievements. As you can see, they use quite a lot of emphasis on the White Space question and these are all for interview shortlisting, by the way. So this could be a good, do you to apply to, let's say if you have lots of things you want to talk about, but they may not be good on paper yet. For example, I had some projects I was working on that weren't published yet. So it was good for me to apply and KSS and Wessex didn't use E PM last year either. Um And we can kind of talk about at the end what we had and what our colleagues had and sort of when they got interviewed, but obviously, it will change this year because the EPN is no longer a factor. But we can kind of give you an idea of the sort of things you need to have se and Peninsula. Um They didn't give you some websites haven't given a point breakdown and just to be aware, some of these websites are pretty rubbish. Um So I won't go into too much, but some in Scotland, for example, they don't use degrees in counting for points. Er, Northern, that's kind of 50 50 split Northwest. So that's sort of Manchester Liverpool. I think they, um again, you, you might want to check what you look at what you have and think where's going to best suit you. And Wales, I was a bit confused. They seem to think it happens after the foundation program. So if you think about applying to Wales, maybe do some more research into that. It was quite unclear on the website. You can always email the foundation school as well if you have any questions and they tend to be ok at replying. Um So only academic achievements. So London, it's two phases and they kind of did this last year. Um Phase one, publication and presentations, phase two prizes and degrees. So if I'm honest, if you don't have any publications or presentations, I wouldn't waste any of your, any, your one out of two applications to London because you're not going to make it to phase two, even if you have loads of prizes and degrees or anything, you know, they're never gonna even look at your application. So I think applying to London is, is very competitive. And for us, lots of our friends who I think one of our friends who had two publications didn't even and some other things didn't even get an interview. Like they, it's a, it's a very popular one and you have to have quite a lot on your portfolio. Um But once you get to interview, um they don't use often, the deaneries don't use your points from before. So if you're really good at interviewing, it's definitely something to consider Northern Ireland seem to only use academic achievements as well. And again, these are all on their separate websites. So this is just the thing I've taken from the London PDF document which they've released. So II I like I said before, I probably wouldn't apply if you haven't even got an, if not, if you haven't, even if you haven't got any publications presentations. Um because they don't use, they don't seem to use white space questions either. Cos even, let's say your pub your thing will be published on the fifth of October. You can't use that. Unfortunately. Um So eenie on Trent, so some just use White space questions. So let's say you, you don't necessarily have anything on paper. This might be a good one to consider. Um Just kind of uh yeah, to consider this one and Yorkshire and Humber. So they, they do not interview which they stopped interviewing the year we applied. So they just use White Space questions and a self assessment tool which you get points. So I'm gonna hand over to Angus to talk about the self assessment tool because it uses a whole variety of things for the points. Um I know he can discuss through them now. Oh, I think we might have lost him. So I will just take over. Oh, no. Can you get the next side? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So Yorkshire's quite a strange one. And I'll, I'll keep it brief because obviously not everyone will be applying to Yorkshire. But I think it's also quite useful to look at because it's actually a similar process to what you get for specialty applications. They quite often shortlist using a points based system. So essentially, um you, you just run through each domain, which is um basically tier based and you would score yourself based on uh what you've achieved. And obviously, the caveat to that is you will be required to give evidence for everything. So there's an element of probity involved, like there's no point lying um for it because you will have to submit evidence uh if you, if you are successful. Um So, so yeah, so the score on the variety of things you've got sports and competition, there's voluntary work. Um I won't, I won't get into the details because it's all accessible on the websites, but it's just to give you a flavor of what, what can uh be sort of scored. There's music and drama. Er, yeah, and then again, similar to the academic achievements, you, you've got your presentations and publications. Um And yeah, ti till al already touched on it. But there's always quite a lot of questions regarding publications because it can be really frustrating if you're, you're midway through a publication and it's gonna be, er, some published officially in, er, let's say January, for example, they, that doesn't matter, it has to be an official PUBMED ID. Um Either 1st, 2nd or last author, they wouldn't, they wouldn't normally accept collaborative authorship. Um But yeah, the main thing is you need that permit ID, which can be really annoying because you might have been working on a project for the last two years and it hasn't quite been published. But unfortunately, that's the, uh, that's the rules on this one. Um, next slide, please, please. So I, I, I'll just summarize and then I'll pass back to, to you if she's got any, anything else to say. Um, I think a common theme we sort of brought up here is every dealer is different. So you do just need to check on the websites. And as Tilly said, the websites can be really difficult to navigate and then not updated that often. So I really would encourage you to, to not be afraid to email the SFP lead and just sort of badger them. Uh They, they're quite often consultants and they'll have full time clinical responsibilities, but I just, or keep emailing and they will, they will reply and give you advice because obviously it's really helpful for you. If you have the up to date information or you can email, there's usually sort of uh a person on admin as well, they can answer like some of the logistical questions as well. You don't necessarily need to pester the consultant. Yeah. Um So yeah, so I hope this is giving you a bit of a flavor of sort of what the A SFP is about and can help you decide whether it's the best option for you. Um I didn't go into it in detail but just to sort of give you my own personal experience, which is 11 way you can approach FP. Um So I'm currently doing my academic block and in Newcastle, it is quite self directed. So I just approach the supervisor in the region uh who is, who is keen to have a junior help with research. Um He's given me a project and I mentioned the surgery and especially plastic surgery, my projects in breast reconstruction. Um and it, it's just, it's a really good opportunity to, to manage your own projects. So you have all the sort of the issues with ethic approval and grants and you see the bigger picture which you might not see as an undergrad. Um You help with the data collection, you can get involved in the statistical analysis and sort of coding and all that element of it. And also uh for me, because it's a clinical project, it's quite nice to be involved in the unit, which I'm interested in. So it means I can uh sit in, in clinics, I can spend time in theater. Um and just sort of get to know the team a bit better which you might not get as much as, as a a UK FP doctor because you, you'll have clinical demands which will sort of limit you, especially an F one to the wards. Um So obviously, that's my personal experience. A lot of people will go down the sort of lab route and you'll spend all your time in the labs and sort of look at genetics or very niche niche areas, but it's really up to you and it means you can explore your interests in more detail. So I think it's a really exciting opportunity and it's, it's nice that the NHS have invested money in this and it gives you time to explore your interests. No, definitely. I think I've been on the ward now. I'm on the hematology and oncology ward and some of the consultants are saying like, yeah, come to my clinics but there is no time, there's lots of ward jobs and kind of having, at least for me having that allocated time in that four months, I'll be able to go to clinics and I'll be able to do kind of actually explore my interests because unfortunately, f one, there are lots of fun things you get to do but you are, you are doing a lot of rubbish jobs and that's, that's fine and you, you get used to it and you get very good at managing the best the departments. Um But no, it's definitely a great opportunity. And I think so part of the SFP application is that you have to be able to reach all your clinical competencies in sort of four months, less time or in, for Angus situation, eight months, less time. So you have got to be quite organized with kind of getting your sign offs and doing all those things and in my A FP block, which is the same for Angus. You'll have like one in three weekends or one in four weekends on call just to kind of keep up your clinical exposure. And so I'll probably be in A&E working one and four weekends and that's also good because it will be also a bit more money as well. Because when you start applying for jobs, different jobs will be paid at different rates depending on sort of what specialty you're doing because obviously lots of have out of hours and different things like that. Um I would say, yeah, it's definitely a really good experience. So I've just applied to do this PG cert and it's a PG cert in medical education and I am interested in teaching and also kind of looking at specialty applications further down the line, that sort of qualification will get me some points. So I think obviously, I think you can think, oh, you can get re bogged down about getting all these points for specialties and everything. But I think you just got to kind of look at the bigger picture, think small things I can do now to kind of help with my chances and lots of doctors take F threes and fours where they do all of these things. So if you don't get an SAP or if you don't apply, there's definitely lots of opportunity, there's no rush to kind of rush into specialty training or anything like that. I think, um you've definitely got to be a bit savvy with the system and kind of think about where you want to go. And I think there's something to be said for like you will apply for the deanery of, for example, for me, KSS and Wessex and you rank all the jobs in that deanery. So I could have been in Southampton, I could have been or Brighton or I think there was some jobs in Maidstone. So it was kind of, it's kind of a bit of a luck. So you've got to be happy to be in any of the jobs kind of in the regions. And that's kind of similar to for the normal application as well. So we've kind of made our sides quite brief because we know that there might be quite a lot of questions. Um and just to talk about what I had when I applied. So when I applied for and I got an interview, I had an interc degree where I got a 21, I had one publication where I wasn't a first offer and I had uh two posts, 21 oral presentation and two or one poster presentation. But I had some other things in the pipeline. And admittedly, I had quite a lot for sort of interviewing, shortlisting. Um My friend who applied, had an Interco degree and a prize and he just missed out on the interview short listing. And then KSS and we didn't do um E PM last year. So that might be more representative. So my flat mate is actually doing an A FP as well or SFP. Sorry, they keep changing the, they, um, had, uh, into car where they got a first and I think they had a poster presentation and then they got an interview. So I think even if you think you don't have that much, it's definitely worth applying and just be wary. So, for me, when you rank all the jobs, I rank the leadership ones as well as well as the management ones and the educational ones. Whereas some deaneries say you can only rank the leadership jobs, you can only rank the management jobs. But that way, like on the oral website, you'll be able to rank all of them. But deaneries won't accept that you just need to read their website. Unfortunately, they, they haven't managed to integrate that into the website, but make sure that you kind of know that. And I think even if I got an education one or a management one, I definitely would have still pursued it because having kind of four months where you get paid time to do research or in an education or anything is really good for your CV. So does anyone have any questions? You can either use the chat function which hopefully is working or just put your microphone on and then we can go through that. Oh, that's. So we'll just go to the first question So do SFP subtypes in a Jeary count as separate. No, you know the application. So on the on Oriel you'll apply. There's like the specialized foundation program tab on the application. And then there's a bit saying like um kind of have your like where you want to apply. So you choose two units of application, you choose two units of application. So yeah, KSS and we, let's say and London, then you put all your educational achievements in one tab and then you put your white space questions in one tab and in the application, you can click, you're interested in leadership or research or you can click the three, I only click research but then you can rank all the other jobs anyway. So I wouldn't fuss too much whether you've just clicked on one like to do research or to do management. But like I said, again, some deaneries this year have said you can only if you want to do like management, you could only rank your management jobs. Whereas for an and I we we said we wanted to only do research but then we could rank all the jobs. So I think it's kind of something to think about which deaneries in your experience contribute to funding traditional degrees. So my dean, the KSS in Wessex one or at least I'm not sure if it's across the whole dean but Brighton, I get 1000 lbs as funding as part of the, the um SAP and then I can apply for other grants that are available to me to SAP. So that means that the PG cert will cost only 100 lbs for me after I get all this funding. So I think most deaneries will offer funding. I'm not sure for Angus, what do they offer funding for you? Uh They don't, but the unit I'm associated with has access to funding. So I I I've secured it through that. Yeah, so you can definitely apply. And also if you're doing a education one, you often just you get to do a PG set anyway, it's just, I kind of wanted, I'm interested in research and in teaching even and I wanted to kind of get those points from applications. So I thought may as well do that. Did you guys have sport, music, leadership achievements to strengthen your application? So it's definitely good. I think in some of the questions um kind of like teamwork one, they changed the questions this year. Well, not really, but we used, we had a really rogue one at the end being like, what's something about a black black hole or something? I don't remember, but it was very, I think it was quite er meant making you think laterally. But no, these questions, you definitely use sport, music leadership in some of the answers, leadership for sure. And I think if you've got loads of um kind of lots of sporting achievements, maybe Yorkshire would be a good application for you. I would say for Yorkshire, I have a fe, like we, er, they had a, the same score sheet last year and E PM and because on the score sheet they used, they did this thing. I know I won't go to it. It's, it's a bit boring but lots of people will get, like, email their teachers and say, can you sign me off to do this? So it might come down to who's got, you know, lots of publications or like grade eights and music. It, it might come down to stuff that's quite hard to forge is the wrong word. But you can kind of say, oh, at school I did volunteering and like, put that up. So I think it's, it's quite easy to get points in Yorkshire from stuff you've done quite a lot in the past. So, just kind of think about that, um, when you're applying and also if you're really good at interviewing, I wouldn't apply to Yorkshire. Um, because if you come off really well, you don't have the actual opportunity to show that. Um, it's a bit of a personal question but how does the pay work? Sorry. Can I just interrupt anyone who needs to leave or is under time pressure? I've just posted that feedback link in the chat. It'd be great if it really helps out if you could just, um, fill that in, if you get the chance And also do you mind going to the next slide to the, just, just to be aware, we'll keep answering your questions, but just be aware, our next session will be on the 18th of September. And that will look at the white space questions. So that will be our part two and then the following two parts will then focus on the interview. So it's just sort of walking you through the whole process. But yeah, that feedback form will be really helpful. Thank you. Yeah. So did you a bit of personal? How does pay work in regards having time dedicated for search and teaching? Do you earn less during this period? So you do earn less because you're gonna be working nine till five, but then you have weekend on calls, but you don't earn less than the normal F one and F two because in F one and F two, you have to do a community job and as an SAP, you don't have to do that. Um So in the community job, for example, GP psych, you will earn less money because you're not earning, you're not working as many hours. So you kind of earn the same as an F one and F two because you don't have that. Your community job is the SFP block. So you do earn a little bit less money, but I don't think it's anything to kind of worry about. You can also pick up locums if you wanted to and sometimes your um research might not be, you know, like confined to the four month block. So I think that's important as well. You have to be quite organized and kind of approaching your supervisors early, especially if you need to do a project with ethical approval. These things don't happen overnight. So it's definitely good to get on top of that. So the next question, you know, Angus, you can. Um So, so again, I would check the website because a lot of deaneries will just have a set list of projects. So supervisor would have approached the foundation school and asked, oh, can we have a junior trainee help us with this project? And then once you get the place you, you'll apply for the specific project or the project might be tied to the place, but obviously, not all of them are like that and especially my personal experience in Newcastle, you did have complete freedom. Er the, the benefit of that is you can explore your interests, but I think it's also quite daunting when you're, when you're this like early on in your career to know exactly what you want to go into. Um What I would recommend is just choose a specialty you're interested in. And I just, I just emailed the SAP lead for Newcastle and said this is my specialist interest. I'd like to do this type of project, be it lab work or clinical facing work or whatever please, can you put me in touch with, with a consultant in this field and they, they're usually really forthcoming and they'll just send, send you a few emails and then I just send a few emails out, explain who I was. And again, people are really, really happy when, when juniors approach them offering help because obviously it's in their interest. So I think that that would be my advice on how to go about that, you know. Definitely. And I think some angers, for example, he approached someone before interview because then you at interview, you can be like, well, I've actually already approached this person to, you know, do this project and that kind of looks really good. So you, yeah, you don't come necessarily up with your own research project. But for me it's, er, mine was kind of set to be hematology. Um, but I don't have a set project. I can choose what I do. I might do a clinical one or a lab based one which I can get a lot of skills. I think if you're kind of worried about doing one that's like preset research. Um I think it, it's not a reason to discount a whole deary because whatever project you do will have transferable skills. Uh So I think it's, it's a good thing to do and I kind of didn't know exactly what I wanted to do and hematology kind of blood comes under every specialty. So it's definitely, I'm learning a lot of thing. I'll learn a lot of things that will be useful in my career. Um So what are voice based questions? So I'm sorry if we didn't explain that I um kind of jumped the gun. So part of the application for sop you fill in the educational um achievements. So that's kind of like what Yorkshire said. So that's prizes, posters, publications and like that. And then you have to answer White Space questions. So they're on the UK FPO website under the specialist Foundation program. So I don't know how many there are this year four or five and the first one will be like, why do you want to do the SFP? I think there's one on teamwork. Um So have a look at those. They're on the UK FPO website um and think about what you can mention for them. So, no, they're kind of like the personal statement. They kind of just like a structured personal statement that they will, they will read and then give you points for. So going to Charlotte's questions in your application white, I can't speak in your application. White space questions. Should you quote the specific SFP you want to do? So, I kind of can't remember what I did. I think I, so for me, so KSS in Wessex, they used all the questions and Yorkshire I applied for only used some so on the sum that on the, the the ones that Yorkshire didn't look at, I did like a very cares thing. I was, I said, sort of like, why do you want to come to the deer? You know, I, like after I said all my like, academic stuff, I said, oh, I like walking, you know, the beach and all of this sort of stuff. So I think if you apply for dean that don't use them, apply for a Dey that do obviously make it really personalized. But you can't be no if you want to apply for Newcastle and Brighton and they're writing all this stuff about how much you love Brighton. Newcastle aren't going to be too happy. Um So uh yeah, that's all the questions. Does anyone have any more questions or Angus I've just spoken. So if you have anything to add? Yeah, I'm, I'm not sure Charlotte meant the, the deanery or the type of SFP? Oh, I see. Sorry. I just went on a Yeah. So I guess you do you want to answer that question? Yeah. Oh yeah. Should you make it first? So as part of the process is a tick box and it'll say which SFP domain do you want to apply for? And then you tick the box for med ed um research or leadership. So I think they'll be aware of what, what you're applying for. And also I think just by the nature of your answer, it's quite clear what you want to apply for. Because the focus of your answer will be one of those three things. So, yeah, in terms of that domain of that, definitely. But I would say it is a bit bizarre. Like you, you obviously say you just want to do research jobs, but then you're able to rank all of the jobs. So I think I would just kind of definitely rank all the jobs and apart from if it's a deer that says, don't rank any of the other jobs because even if you apply to do education and then you kind of pretty much they've not been clever enough to make three separate applications so you can rankle the jobs, but definitely I tailor it to the sort of one you want to do because that interview they, they're gonna ask you questions. I don't, they don't ask about your White Space questions, but it just, your interview is pretty much just explaining what your white space questions are. Um So sorry, Charlotte, I read your message. I apologize. Um So yeah, medical education is lots of the med DS FPs for re gave loads in our induction, we gave loads of talks for us, which was really good. Um And you get to do quite a lot of fun stuff with medical students, um kind of giving them clinical workshops and different stuff like that. Um So I think it just really depends what sort of thing you want to do. Um But again, like if you really want, if you kind of think you want to be uh work in education in medical schools and kind of developing education, definitely look it down, look at that sort of route and if you have a lot of education stuff on your portfolio, for example, if you've um done run lots of clubs in medical school and that sort of thing and that's definitely something to mention. So if you've done help to societies in medical school, definitely use that you can really milk um things. And if like, let's see, you haven't got any teaching experience right now, you can join, just message a society now and be like, can I help you with a session and then you can get a certificate, said you help with teaching and you can talk about that and you don't have to say like, oh, I, you know, I just did one session. You kind of, you can exaggerate it a bit saying, oh, I helped with teaching and then they're not going to know that there was only one session. So I think there is still a amount of some time now to kind of get some things for your application. So it's definitely a good thing to think about. And so yeah, the next ques the next session we're gonna do talk about the White Space questions, kind of give you examples, the sort of thing, things that you should say. And then we have an interview advice session where we'll kind of talk about advice for the interviews and then we're gonna do a mock interview session. So we don't have the capacity to interview everyone. So we're just gonna do a mock interview session on ourselves and kind of show you what the interviews like. Um Angus, do you have anything else to add? No, I don't think so. Um I was just gonna add, uh, if you, if you do have any more questions, don't be afraid to email us uh with any sort of queries on specific dear. Or also if you had any sort of request for what you like, like us to speak about in the next talks again where we're open to suggestions because we want to help you guys sort of improve the chance of your application. No, definitely. And the websites are really unclear. Um Unfortunately, sort of like the UK FP A website, which is kind of very clear. Lots of the website haven't been updated and they are very difficult to navigate and some of them haven't even updated the stuff from 2022. So you've, you've really, it's a lot of effort to, um, to look at these things and the slides were made available on the recording. And so this kind of, so I'll just go back to the point slide, obviously, please, if you're thinking about doing the room check the website yourself, but this kind of gives you a rough guide of the sort of thing that you, you might want to apply for. Um, so, yeah, I think I applied for KSS MS cos, I wanted to live near, er, er, London, which is my home and I wanted to do and I didn't, I didn't apply for London because I thought I'm not, I'm not gonna get it. I'm not gonna waste an option. Um, and because they used a lot of stuff on white space questions and I had quite a lot of stuff I wanted to talk about that wasn't actually on paper yet. So I think it's really, yeah, it's good to, to sort of think what your portfolio suits. Um And just again to say, wherever you guys end up it, you will have a good time in NF one and F two. And also so the jobs I'm don't know if you know this yet. So you rank like certain jobs and the jobs will be six rotations and they're preset. And often for me, for example, because I'm doing hematology, a FP or SFP. The jobs are kind of featured around. He, so I'm doing hematology, oncology and then general surgery. Jerry's um and then doing, oh my gosh, I forgot rest and infectious diseases. So I'm doing a lot of like medicine jobs because I guess they're gearing me up to be a hematologist and just because I hate hematology research doesn't mean I necessarily will go to hematology. So don't stress if you get kind of a project that you're not felt like, amazed with. So, I think that's all I have to say. I feel like I've just rambled so I'm a bit tired from work. But, er, Angus. Do you have anything else to add? No, no, I think that's great. Uh, so, yeah, just, you can always message the Facebook group as well if you have any questions. But, um, we'll go through the white space questions in the next. Um And the next bit, I think I'll probably just start kind of preparing them now thinking about what you have, writing down everything you have. And I honestly think um this is a good thing to do even if you think, oh what's the point? Uh It's a really good thing to kind of gather everything you have done throughout your medical school throughout your life. Kind of get thinking in that this sort of state of mind. And I think cos like in medical school, obviously we applied and then we haven't had to think about anything for six years. So I think it's a really good experience and even if I didn't get it. So the interview is going to be very similar to, like I said before, specialty training interviews and it's just kind of getting more practice. So, yeah, definitely kind of write down, have it on one big document, everything you've done and sort of lay it out. Um But Yeah. So we'll leave it there. I won't, uh, bla on too much on a Wednesday evening. And again, yes. If you have any questions, just message us and we'll make the recording available and we'd be really grateful if you could fill in that feedback form. Ok. Thank you.