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they get? Yeah, spend is being like shape. Oh, testing. Has he got 56 on a shooting? It's working. Okay. It's working to best IQ. They were still joining since gives the 30 seconds we'll just treat myself so delicious. Fisherman's friend. Yeah. Cool. Yeah. True. All right, well, um, you know, here is as you probably will know that this point we're going to give a talk this evening about a specialized foundation program academic into the so Welcome back. My name's Daniel Richardson. I'm an academic. Think when you're a science foundation doctor at King's got just Oh, Onda, I let Jack introduce himself around. Jack was last week. Uh, I'm not being critical. Care that bonds say, uh, very similar format last time. We're gonna talk a bit about the academic station. Generally, this whole thing you need to go expect to bear forth. Then we're going to focus on critical appraisal. Probably the main stay of the talk. That's probably a bit, but most people are think, find intimidating and difficult to repair form. And then, at the end, time dependent, we will answer any questions you might have if you have no answer them already. But what the problem in the channel and I'll be morning the chair for out if you do have questions. Eso really brief disclaimer. So all information is based on our experience and it's been information passed down from people to us, which were not crossing to you were no endorsement attacks, only way to foundation program or to any specific university ordinary on down. Pretty much everything we're talking about is freely available, probably domain. We're not giving any, you know, super sneaking inside the tips or anything like that that we give people a favorite frontage. So just a recap really quickly. So the whole interview starts with 15 minutes. Preparations. Time to cover the clinical stations we talked about last week and the academic station. You can decide yourselves how you want to split these times. Federation. There's a time gap for unknown duration, which I think for Jacquizz me and minutes and for me was about 2.5 hours on. I've heard Shorter had longer on then. Really, the academic station is around personal questions about your motivations for the Specialist Foundation program on then looking for an abstract and then the clinical station as we've covered that last week, and the recording is on metal site. We're not gonna touch that Taltz week. The panels may have a lead technical lead on additional server on, but we'll talk more about them in a bit things out of the truck because it only all the same as last week, which not sneezy, say top tips again, prep time Just to re seriously think you do read through the abstract as a whole. First, you could start making notes. Try and get your head around what you're gonna be asked to present. Make brief notes from key components discussion points. Don't try and copy it all up the beta you will run out of time to really bad. You take your time to try and do that do definitely you to structure. Obviously you need to. You can only bring a blank piece of paper to the interview, but once a prep time started, no one can stop you from copying out the structure of the bait, Um, and then using that to formulate how you take the notes of your abstract and then, as I already mentioned, be prepared to toe weight on diffuse do weight. Obviously, make sure to use that to your advantage. I've already said not strike. I got it all out. If you feel like you're finished preparing before the time finishes, then don't feel that that's a bad thing in itself. On don't necessarily allocate 50 50 between. It's been crustacean, abstract, and then something that I'm not sure everyone knows, but just so you are clear you don't have AC access to the abstract as you present it. So all the all the notes, you take away the notice you'll have. Which means if you don't write down specific things, unless you're very good at remembering, you've been a really struggled to talk about specific things. Uh, so it's talk more specifically about the academic stations 10 minutes long, and really, you should think about this. Is is your opportunity demonstrating why you stand out as a candidate, why you deserve a specialized violation program job on. But what you need experiences and skills that you have essentially make you an idea. Why should I? Why should we give you this job is the best Everyone else. He's a, um, support probably quite a bit of discussion of motivation to research background, you will be expected to present in critique and abstract on. Do expect to answer specific questions about data on, but we've already said it want to say again, You definitely don't have access to the abstract as you present it. Spacey. Anything I tell what you're saying is, with this abstract, I'm not having the information throughout, certainly beneficial to practice writing in a specific template, because it's gonna move so fast that you you really should practice where you're going to go in your eyes when you click through and sit down. So I actually write everything exactly the same format in respect to the abstracts on a piece of paper. Because these infusions so quickly, it's really hard to retain that amount of information, especially thinking about what Down experienced. Imagine reading and abstract that they're having to wait two hours before your interview is going to really difficult to retain that level of information. So really, practice your problems and stuff. That's right. That's right. Actually, uh, so I supposed talking about parking the critical appraisal in the abstract for a second. If that's you know, one part that's difficult. But the other thing, that thing is really important to think about. How you can capitalize on is the discussion of motivations and the reason you want SFP. So you definitely should be practicing. If you know, started already going through basic interview questions that you know we're likely to come up not just here but every interview for pretty much rest your life. So I think that tell us about yourself. Why would you be a good candidate? It's job, you know tells a bit about your background. You want to have to give, you know, not rehearsed, sounding the honest handed smooth on behind of well rounded Vance's. The way that I practice is on by think that provided similarly is Talk to yourself, present these answers to yourself in front of a mirror or using your phone and then just watch it back. But essentially you need to get really good at saying answers without saying, um and are on adding with these extra beats in because each one of those things to come up seconds and in 10 minutes with this so much to cover if you if you spend half the time thinking about how to construct your answer. You lose out on valuable time. The other candidates will spend showing why they're such good candidates. Anything else you would, I think, the actual The difficulty in the personal questions is timing, cause you have 10 minutes both the personal questions and abstract interpretation way. Try and talk about all of these four things that Dan's kinda listed here within, essentially, what should be no more than two minutes. It's really hard. So I fumbled this part of my interview, and I think even though I practiced a lot, I simply didn't practice enough, especially considering the nerves that you'll be experiencing. You're you're and you're in your interview, so I'd be really strict on your own. Timing's at home. Yeah, you will be surprised if you run out some bullet points and try and present an answer. What you think would only take the two seconds to say would fulfill three minutes, and that's more time than you have to talk through. So it's definitely worth practicing. What question here that's actually prompted a lot of thought. Which would it mean the last point regarding London? So in in the London Dean Aries, you'll be interviewed by interviewers have no idea about the preferences you've selected on. Whether you selected one single job or 30 jobs are advice would be. You may be honest, the question regarding why do you want this sfp? And it's going to do you more favors again personal opinion not published anywhere to have well researched and understood a single job and demonstrate that you are the perfect candidate for that one job rather than approach. The question is if, Oh, to be honest, I don't mind which London job I get. I think the form is better. And then I have no idea about how many jobs you applied for a which job on. That's what we need by the final point. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, but who who into you, Jack. But I had a orthopedic surgeon on a neonatal specialist, and I was applying for clinical neuroscience jobs. So yeah, they went into something I was interested in on. I was necessary things on gun of you know what your motivation for going there is, So I think making it really clear is a candidate that you've researched a job. You know exactly where you're applying to you know what you want. That's much easier to practice for a swell. Giving an answer like that is opposed to trying to show that you're really passionate about something, but also keeping it very open in generic. That's that's really gonna be much harder just saying, I really want this one job. Just give me this one Job needs to be eight or nine recently. Why it would be perfect for you. Basically, there's no there's. There really is no excuse but for not having any idea about about your your first choice job on. But I don't know what Dan did, but I certainly bugged a lot of people. Doing the job currently is a pretty good way. I'll find it. I'm finding out about it before, if not some. Some employers are much better in publishing online than others. I don't have a good, good dick around me in today. So for people into being outside of London, a bit of other kind of advice that changes things like that. Suppose so. I interviewed in Cambridge on by found It to be. It was more conversational is less like me presenting something at someone, someone just silently marking me and asking questions. Far more conversation. But it was, for I was also pressed much more on my points. So I felt that in London I could say things and they would go Campli unchallenged and they were just accepted and okay, yeah, that's fine. But it's certainly found that it was. There was more scrutiny given to my aunt's house, and I was asked to defend things. What role Thea Other thing to think about if you're applying outside of London is that you might not necessarily be given abstract became Bruce. This is definitely tree, and I think the same mystery Oxford. So you're more likely to expect a question like Tell me about peace of research you've read recently on If you're applying for academic job and you can't present one bit of research you've read or heard about recently that you can roughly talk about that's going really kill kill you often interview, be ready or could think about definitely having one or two papers that you've read through and you could talk about talk about the implications of all. Why do you think they're interesting? No, I didn't make that that you're asked if someone was asked. You went to present a paper and this They immediately interrupted you and said, No, not that one. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that's quite I think that's quite common. Or it said, Listen, I've heard is that if you present one paper, they'll ask, you know, I've already had that that give me another. So you have one. You're really confident, but definitely you know, if you've got one or two in your back pocket, it's well, that's, you know, just something that will save you from having a walk with moment night during the interview. Expect more questions about yourself on Galson. So I think importantly, expect to be interviewed by someone is an expert in the field. So I applied for neuro science jobs, and I was interviewed by a professor of neuro critical care, which meant that ah, things that you know, maybe other consultants or specialists would not know anything about. Okay, Yeah, that's a That's a reasonable Once I was really pressed on s Oh, I suppose you know, make sure you know your own research. And if you're gonna talk about reset makes me you know what we're talking about, you're not going to try and, well, the world over someone's eyes because you probably will get around. Um, that's probably the most advice could give outside of London. Well, I'm happy to answer any questions that people have got. Some I can talk about that later. Um, that's my phone. So, general interview advice on then I guess moving onto critical appraisal, which is a bit that I think everyone finds intimidating. So essentially, it's a short, structured summary of the abstract of red. But that's, I think, where people think the focus should be. But actually that's missing the point. What you really being asked to do is given a prayers of what you think of this paper. Do you think it's a strong paper? Do think it's a week paper. Where did this in the literature? You know, what's the context of the paper, your overall interpretation and kind of clinical relevance on you really should be aiming to do this in about five minutes or less, because actually, you're gonna ask you, you're gonna have questions beforehand, any questions afterwards. And if you feel your entire 10 minutes talking about this, this abstract you're not gonna be able to maximize the other points that are available. If you're just talking through three or abstract, I would say the key to this. We'll talk about this a bit more, but the key is giving yourself structure and sign posting. The person who's interviewing you weigh about to go what you're going to talk about next because actually, they have a tick formula Marquis. And if you were just talking and run on sentences, it's really unclear where you're going to go, and they might miss some of the really good point you're making. Whereas if you labor your points, you make sure it's clear before you start talking about them in detail. People be able to follow you much, much more easily. You should be expected, be interrupted. And when you're practicing with other people who are applying, interrupt each other and see how easy it is to knock someone off that flow. Expect to have to defend would justify your interpretations of data or how you explain it. Expect to be asked to kind of re words your argument like I didn't really understand you, But can you can you just say that again in a different way. Um, I think those were experiences that we both had it. Yeah, I was certainly interrupted fairly early on to defend a point on, but I think this couldn't freaking cool off. It doesn't necessarily mean that the point or just skating you've made is wrong. It's testing your ability to communicate. Uh, I'm justify your arguments. And so that that sounds like a very key point of the interview on a focus of my practice. Don't know whether it works or not. Was through. Really think about how I describe certain expects of a of a clinical trial or points I was making because you may be answered. Justify them, and it's really easy to trip up on your own words. Um, so that would be more Yeah, that would be my experience or yeah, well, that's what All right, so right, Say, having talked about structure the I think the most common structure that we both used is the Peko structure, and that's probably what most people have heard of it. You have a different structure, they already using your comfortable with that, then stick to that. I think we're pretty close to the interviews for some people, they're in the next two weeks or so. If you already have a structured a swap to this one in the last two weeks, it's bad idea. Um, if you don't have a structural ready, then get picked a structure and start using it. Um said to talk through the critical appraisal. I suppose that how would you go through it? What would you say is how how you got through. Have I gotten free? What? The abstracts. I think you Yeah, when you present the Christmas trees. Um, so I've always presented a line or two summarizing the abstract, um, literally a sentence or two describing key structure and any important findings or conclusions at the office mate. And then I will, for each of the Peko try and aimed for one or two key points. Um, I think it's really easy for people to get caught up in the morning show. Or perhaps if you have the, for example, of statistical background to spend all of your time speaking about statistics of the study itself on really person experienced. Don't feel like that's the point off these interviews. So would be folks on one or two key aspect. I think you get no points reinventing the wheel. The interviews will expect to PICO former, and it will actually be very easy for them to follow if you just follow that forward, um, and talked with in it I mean, mine was Mom is very simple. That's that's how I did. But I approached this as you likely getting the academic part of the interview first, Likely being extremely nervous about my interview. I was just trying to make it simple as possible for myself, and I feel like it went reasonably with that approach. But did you take the same route? Yeah, I think so. I think is You said, actually, people get really caught up in the minute. She I sometimes especially on statistics and trying to kind of explain a really difficult point. But actually, if you think about how much need to do in 10 minutes I would pick Teo. I would I would stick to making big, simple, easy to argue points. They're gonna be easy to defend. Easy to understand the person you're making them to on do the kind of make that makes sense. I think going off and kind of having to set the scene on say, Well, actually in statistics. But by the time you've made the point you've used or your time up on, you might know actually really made a particularly good point, so very similar to be get very brief summary off the abstract. Then I revere the abstract in the same format that I've reviewed it, you know, population and intervention in comparison, that outcome talk about any other value points. And I think also important the were. Although we're interested in research, it's a clinical kind of position, right? Like we do research for knock your research. So I think every paper is worth drawing it back to how, with this change, clinical practice, what's the relevance to people's care? And I think that's a nice way to finish your summary and to bring it back and, you know, open open up for discussion and questions about the point. You may be a minute. Um, it sounds like a very simple thing. I mean, I literally in my preparation of writing down as well, every every single abstract. We did three preparation. I did right to line summary verbatim because I knew that would be the first thing I'd be asked, and I'd have time to practice that whilst waiting. And then I drive in big letters p I c o to keep wants reached. And if I had still more time, I just put down minor points around the outside and actually, you'll find when you're practicing the irrespective of abstracts, you'll just soon fit into a former. Actually, you talk about pretty much keep oint of the paper. They don't change a great deal. For example, in the intervention section you'll be or the control section even. That's even better you'll be talking about. Is this a gold standard intervention that you're comparing your intention to? For every single runs it always controlled trial. You're going to say absolutely everything around that he practice enough. You'll just very your structure and it that anything that you can do on the day to take away the stress of the interview. I am a strong proponent for because you'll like, really want this interview and job Onda the most confident of us. We're We're very nervous on the deck, so So I'd say that would be more advice anyway, It's very. I mean, to draw on an allergy when you talk through the clinical scenario using 8 to 8, and the reason you use a tree is to it's a structure that's university people expect on. But I think the easiest way of approaching this is create a very similar structure for yourself. So you can't get lost in your presentation. And it's very easy to follow. Idiot proof, Your interview. Is it later on, and then just someone else. The question How many points reasonable for strength or weakness is I don't know how you said about one. I think, Yeah, again, I probably say a couple, if you're getting to, like four or five points. But again, thinking about how much time you have, you run out, you run out of time. If you've got if you're gonna make five points about the population, then by the time you get to outcomes you have used for your time, um so keep it simple. Just argue. Good points. Do you think it's easy to understand the need to make? And if you've got more, that's fine. Maybe asking for some more, but yeah, I mean it, actually what they need to relatively standardized these interviews. So if, for example, I mean for all of them would suggest, like consider unethical point, for example. But if you don't cover that, be expecting a question to cover that aspect of of, of whatever they're trying to market. Yeah. Oh, all right. I feel like that's enough structure. That's a death. So a good place to start, I guess. I think you talked about it last week. Actually, a good amount feedback we had was actually working, talking through and walk. I'm working through these examples of something lot of people found beneficial. Let's start with an example right now. So if you can scan the QR code in the screen on, we just want Teo see on Minniti. Submit. Basically, what do you think are the what is the population? What is the intervention? What the controls more the outcomes? Well, we can talk through those things. And if you have a quick read of the the abstract as well, I would say that this is no, particularly so if it is that fact, I don't think this is completely out of what you could expect is an abstract have to present in the activity interview. It's quite worded. There's lots of different things going on it and lots of acronym, so necessary defined. Um, so it's quite a lot to get to get through if you've got a read. This room presented on someone's been here. We cannot see the full QR code. That's ask it. Okay. Like, how can we fix that? We can probably fix it. Lie. I think your face is covering it. Oh, thank you. Has to. That's all. Can people see that? Someone placing? Check if you can see it now. Lovely. Thank you. Yeah, that what? Lovely. Even give it to you. And oh, far the amenity. Um, no. Yeah. Appreciate it. Take a while. They got in. They don't distrust. Okay, lovely. So begin to come in less. And once you're writing out population intervention control, that comes. If you've got any questions about anything we've said so far, you see, feel free to try. Yeah, we can quit feeling this one rapidly. Excellent. Another going united was fun. All right, let me talk through. So I've got a few for the population, so I've got things like preoperative patients that three test three centers in Australia and New Zealand. I've got 441 adult age, 18 years or older within six weeks for a major elective surgery. Adults within six months of electives of another on elective major domino operation Go patient age of 18 within six weeks of elective major surgery. Uh, intervention, single person visit therapy. Um, payroll. The adult perioperative. Yeah, course say most people seem Teo. I think if you got a population, which is good, what the outcomes if someone's not written the outcome. So for someone, put the outcomes out. What do you think? The outcomes on any good questions? People are staying on the chapter back. Yeah, you can provide new These cause someone does might be a bit rubbish. So one of them was for the question. Tell us about yourself. Do we answer with our research backgrounds and why we want to do a research sfp or a more general cancer? I answered. We recommend covering clinical education stuff, teaching, academic unpersuaded, all for the majority of of questions. And then there's another question said, When you say clinical, do you mean career aspirations? So it depends from my personal view, that depends on the framing of the questions. And if it's asking about use a person that my ass, then you may look to frame that experience to day and aspirations. I really think it is up to you how you frame it. But that's how I approached it. Yeah, for clinical, I thought I consider clinical to mean kind of the opportunities that would be available in the placements. So I think something that actually we didn't talk about is that for all of these SNP's the only one bit of it off the six jobs you have. This is the research. The other five. I would if you know, you know, range of jobs were thinking about whatever the You're gonna have one research block. But really, if you're thinking about what you want to do in the future, with that being and then from intensive care, neurosurgery or radiology, whatever you want to think about war opportunities to the other blocks off for you. So, for instance, myself on interest in surgery, I've got an active not next year, but this year I'm doing six months of general surgery and then cute, including, like you to surgery and drama surgery. And I saw that was a really good opportunity to deal with sick, unwell, deteriorating surgical patients on baby. Some of those will be drawn more or neurosurgical patient. So when I saw them actinic Oh, I talked about Well, the actual jobs were not for me on, but it would be like in the hospital I'd want to go work in. I think it's easy to fix a on, you know, what's the university gonna offer me, But also, like you spend most of time in the hospital on the people who were interviewing you might even work in the hospital you're applying to work out. So you're showing that you've done your homework, Know just about the reset you're gonna be doing, but also where you're gonna be working and that, you know, that's a good hospital for you for you know, x, Whatever reasons I think shows that you thought about what would actually be the majority of a job which is working as a doctor clinically in the hospital. More about that. Tell us about yourself in the clinical. Expected that. What? What would you say for the suppose for May? I was quite lucky. So having done a few things in my life before becoming a medical student, I talked about the fact that I had worked previously in operating theaters and I wrote in transplant surgery and on that scene and work near century overnight and stuff. So for me, I talked about things that happened premed school. But I guess it also talked about things that I had chosen to do. So, like I've organized an elective neurosurgery and then this June sector component in neurosurgery. So I guess those things also classed under clinical things have picked to do. But we're specifically technical things, not recent. I mean, this this structure we're providing is just an idea. If you're looking to three and we're not saying that that's how you have to do have to do it is just how our Guerry, how everyone we practice with, did approach these questions in order to try and cover off all aspects. Um, and it seemed to I mean, you know, it seemed to work. Yeah, I think the study group and no and no, no control group, but it's it's in to work. Yeah, and I think that really you're just trying to come across with the well rounded answer that shows that you thought about why you'd be good for something. So if you can come up with a completely different way of doing, it gets the point that you want to cross, then there's nothing to stop you from doing that. So just just looking through the things people have submitted, I think generally be real. Got the right idea, said Population. I would say, Well, that's what let's just check through So this is what we thought it was. So we would say the population over 18 years, years old in six weeks of major upper abdominal surgery, the interventions. 30 minutes a productive visit terribly, plus the usual preoperative care. The control was leafing, educated alone, plus usual parrot care. On the outcome was postoperative complications and other some. Some people actually submitted other, more kind of kind of granted descriptions of the outcomes. I guess the bit underneath this paragraph is probably so we kind of discussed. How would we give a summary on? That's probably what we would say, I would say that's exactly what I would say when asked to give my summary So that's much information I give about the abstract. I haven't given any specific details of numbers, really. And actually, it's a very, very general overview Summary off the abstract. Different? Um, e guess I mean, I think any more than that you begin to eat your 10 minutes of time. Onda, you've got remember that abstract itself is probably 200 to 300 words long. So you your summary certainly certainly shouldn't be more than 50. Should have. I'm just thinking logically how we do great. You on. Also, everyone who is all the Examiner's or interviews or whatever you call them will have heard that abstract be presented maybe 50 times in front of you. It would have heard it. Loews already that day. Unless you're the first person first interview on the first morning, they would have heard it, so they'll be bored of hearing it. Teo, get through the summary bit and just clear all about and in the bit where you'll stand out and make the most interesting argument and stand yourself out of some of the understands. How do presenting pretty can abstract is the actual crispy? It'll raise a bit, not just regurgitating and abstract, which they will already know about is. But it is, uh, I'd say that, but with the caveat that it is a skin to be able to read a lab strapped and take away the key the information and summarized that point on parts of this interview is about how you communicate lots of information very succinctly in clearly. So my advice for this bit again personal experience would be that I'm the one thing that I did in my preparation piece of paper was I'd write down like Down is done here. But this is the first, that first thing I'm going to say. So these are the exact words aren't going to say when I approach it because you'll have time to do so, especially if you're If you're waiting for two hours, then you certainly will have those two sentences. Um, perfect. So So you know, I think there is. There is stuff to be games there, but like I said, that's not the bulk of what you're going to be doing. So don't get Don't get stuff down in there. Yeah, I agree. Senses somebody bit you think about the approach. So then I guess the appraisal, the questions that we would say you should be asking is why I was just really conformed. What type of study was performed? Primary secondary data was a study design appropriate second question and the contest. Did the study meet you expected standards of ethics and government, I suppose. Kind of joining 0.1 point four together. You could ask it was appropriate for this study to be undertaken. So I think Jack is You previously said to me, We've discussed things where you said this is no, uh, defense off. You shouldn't be doing a piece of research if there's already really should be doing a randomized controlled trial Anyway, there's really a really clear gold standard treatment that's effective. Well, you shouldn't You shouldn't be doing research. It doesn't. There's no use that gold standard. And I think actually, you could almost aren't you for this paper, which is interesting because you just dragged off being jaded. Your thing? Yeah, Actually, the evidence know for pre habilitating in pre surgery is actually quite a good body of evidence. So is ethical in itself to be putting participants through this study in which there's a control arm that aren't receiving that Make up your own mind. But these This is why we suggest these four questions because immediately they're going to drag you to the key components of a study on that may well, for murky, a primary component of your argument. And my argument for this study when I was reading it for earlier was show. That's an interesting findings. But again, being a clinical academic, what does it really add? Well, I mean, we should probably be pretty debilitating our patients anyway, So nothing. And it also, you know, was it efficacious toe? Take it. So that's why we suggest these things. So if you click for actually you don't even have to take a cute didn't cure thing again. Your menti should now automatically update. So let's give you somewhere time. But let's give you would drink three minutes the say three minutes. So you So let's give you three minutes. Just post what? Everything. What? The strengths and weaknesses, this abstract or just any points? Any general 0.2. Try it and let me know if the minute he has, um, updated. All right. Looks Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Coat. Say I've already got a few to say You are not CC, so it's obviously the gold standard for evaluating an intervention. Participants a randomized. So remove allocation bias. It's statistically significant. Think that the follow up time is so there's a weakness in the following times. Inappropriate on the potential is under powered. There's no mention of patient, um, a graphics or matching um, World's randomization coming begin yet. A good distance completed the trial. It's very high confusion, actually. Religion are samples as participants. Interesting. You know, some person one person thinks is under powered. First thing is good sample small sample size relevant. You came. Population weakness, lack of information. Why nine? Dismissive. Not completely. Trial degree. Um, yeah. Populations picked appropriately is a concealed allocation weakness. Participants wouldn't know, obviously if they weren't receiving the intervention risk of, um, blinding. Yeah, them in stratification. Uh, is it a neck thick Ultram not get post operative physiotherapy. So I think I would agree. It probably is. But I think that's so something to just be careful about, actually, if you look close to operatively, both lots of patients received the same, um, level of care. So they both received usual postoperative care. The intervention was just that one group would it learns in preoperative physical therapy before, um, pretty good. And you're not proof of No. Okay, so the laser stuff is losing the things you guys are giving really very dances, which is really good. The other interesting thing is that they're normal argument, the same things. There is a little bit of conflict amongst the answers people giving, which is, you know, these sort of things that you might be then ask to kind of defend interviews. Oh, you said that. Okay, tell me why you think about if you're one of the people just written something talk through, then think about If you were asked to defend that, how how would you go about defending? And I think what I had this so most of those points, actually. Well, what I write down initially when doing free this abstract, I suppose the only thing that I doubt it this to again interprets this study within a clinical context, you know, only is it's statistically significant result. But wow, if you can have post operative complications, that's hugely clinically significant. And then again critiquing the study if you look at it, it's actually presented is kind of a composite outcome at the end, and you notice that there's no difference in mortality or I see you admission to get really need to look at the data in more detail because you're just avoiding the minor postoperative complications. So we to myself, Jack went through, and these are some of the points that way with that, Um, again, this is probably more potentially more points, and you might have time to talk through. But I think when you're doing the appraisal when you're practicing, putting is putting down as many pointers you can think off as you're going through it and then selecting from those What do you think of the strongest point? One of the strongest? Um, it's easy to make points if you think of, too. If you think of one point for population, don't stop there, because then you might be missing, you know, really key. Issue that study house. Okay, strengthen guess. Um, time, Let's leave him. So the other thing, I guess just to talk about is also definitions. So interview both myself and Jack both asked to define things the things that we were asked to define are in this list, both of them on D we think is a starting point. You should be able to define every single one of these points. So you take a screenshot if you want, or you might already have a fast cars or whatever. But I think any of these are fair game to be asked what they mean on. But now you've seen a list of them, and we've said we think usual fare getting if you don't revise everything you get, asked one of these in the interview gonna kick yourself, Um, and you don't need to necessarily go into the real necessary to detail. But I think not only being out to define things like randomized controlled trials but, you know, knowing a bit about the different types of randomized controlled trials, same as codeine. Or, you know, what's the difference between prospective in a retrospective, cohort or nested cohort on do all those different things? So look at this list. Go through it if you can't define these things in a really clear, simple way, and you might not necessarily no definition enough now, and that gives you time to practice is he don't after fumble around it into the right words. Anything you don't check? No, but I think this can also again going back to me. Nervous trying to idea. Prove myself. I'm not smart as you've done. So what for? Order, please. Um, this to guide my interpretation of each study. So for a randomized controlled trial or for a case controlled trial, there are list of strengths and weaknesses for those trials. And you can apply that to any single abstract that you're given and just very what you say. Similarly, learning the different types of biases. That's not a wasted, wasted time. Because whenever you're critiquing the abstract, you're looking for evidence that the office have tried to minimize these bites. And if not, you've got a point there. So I think, learned the definitions and think what you're learning the definitions, how, in an interview, um, I'm going to demonstrate that I know this definition, but also that I'm applying it to what's in front of me. Um and I think very much imagine a P value. One is it is a perfect example where everyone will stay something. It's statistically significant, but actually when you ask people what treat people you means, they might not be up to define it more. So they then interpret that as being clinically significant or something. So actually understanding what it really means that and how you use that in the context of an abstract, I think, probably is the difference here between someone that's good on someone that's excellent and likely to get an S f p a preposition. Yes, you could thing. Um and then I suppose, finally, just also knowing that you might be asked Teo off things on this list. You asked to describe what the differences are between them. So, for instance, like, what's the difference during order to research? And it will help you given answer to that question, even if you've never practiced it before. If you know what the difference is, if you know how to define order and they had to find to find research, it will help you get out of a sticky situations for questions you might not have prepared for. So I guess we still have time on. But we last week, Jack very kindly stepped up on be performed in eight. It performed alive 80 on, Say, this'll week. It's my go on. We're going to, I guess we'll talk through or running through a fake, more academic station so you can get a rough idea of the sort of questions that might be asked. What? Presenting an abstract answering some questions might look like within the 10 minute time limit. So I don't know whether you want us to do the time attack me. I would do as it I'm Kevin. Come. So on your two, you are sfp interview. You don't have to work to get here so far. Thanks very much. These don't be nervous. Certainly know that stuff of I'm gonna ask you a couple of questions and then we can get into the your interpretation critique this abstract, If that's okay, that's probably find any questions for we start. No, no questions at all. That stuff starts climbing now. So why do you want the sfp that you applied for? So, in my opinion, to us, if he provides an excellent balance in developing key clinical academic skills forms a foundation of an academic career which I could go forth and kind of generate in practice evidence based medicine So I'm applying to this specialized foundation program specifically because of the Yeah, that you can find a practice for F P specifically for a number of clinical research and educational reasons. So, firstly, I spiked a career in nearest Every with a makes it kind of placement 16 in trauma surgery, neurology and a large test for center. Revive the opportunities to experience working with unwell, deteriorating patients for a research perspective, already discussed kind of research project for the number of supervisors. But I'd like to take advantage of the vast facilities and world leading research groups available, uh, Kings. And from a medication perspective, the opportunity to teach on the mass of neuroscience course that helped me develop is an educator on support, my application for associate fellow heart, occasional cabinet and later working towards a PhD onda personal level and live very locally to kings. I know quite what about this Before on I see it's next institution on my doorstep, which would love to be a part of, So that's why I'm applying for this's it. Obviously, it's no easy being on sfp. So what challenges do you foresee if you receive a job so I think the toothpick challenges. I see our first of all of the needing to kind of become clinically competent was a junior doctor. It's a big transition points, and becoming a medical student into working is a job as a doctor on. Given that I have four less months on the ward's, I'll need to kind of learn to juggle that. I think I've already got experience it, providing and performing academic work and having academic responsibilities as well as practicing and training through medical school. So I think I'm already quite good at time management. I'm already aware this is a challenge so I can think about mitigating going forwards. I think the other issue is expectancies of outputs with only four months to do a project. So having already spoken to a supervisor, I've got a project agreed in principle. But I could start in my first year and work towards completion within my four month research project. I think there's the two big challenges I see. But as we can tell, I've already thought about how would mitigate those issues, right? Thank you dot So you want to summarize and critique abstract? We've given to you yes theatrics, called Acute urinary Retention of Risk cancer, which population based studies base in Denmark. So essentially, it's a study and taking across all hospitals in Denmark, including patients age 50 or older or the first hospital. Admission for urinary retention is undertaken between 90 95 in 2017 and totalled about 75 76,000 patients on the authors sort to compare the rates of diagnosis urogynecologist, or neurological cancers in patients with acute urinary retention, and compare this to the general population to look excess risk. So the authors main finding was that the cancer's off the cancer study. The excess risk was confined really within the first three months of follow up, with the exception of prostate in urinary cancers. Talk more specifically about the rates if you'd like me to. But actually, um, unless you got any other questions, I'll talk about why I think this is a quite strong paper. So, um, well, you know, there's a mention of absolute risk here. Yeah, mine. Just telling me what the office mean by absolutely risk. So, yes, absolutely. Risk is essentially the observed or calculated probability often event in a population related to a specific acid. I asked you respect to the time period. T Bring it into this population. Absolutely risk. Is the Observer calculated risk of cancer to talked about relating to the Has it been the hazard in this population is acute Urinary retention and that's continue with your critique would thank you. So So I suppose if we go through this in PICO form, if we look at the population, this is looking a ball hospitals and Denmark's. It's a large volume of people. It is appropriate. Age for cancer is being investigated is unclear. With the Danish health systems compatible to the UK, I want to know if it is on if it's not, um, fun. I'm familiar with the whole system. I don't know if there's any further infusion or exclusion criteria. It's not just in the abstract. Um, I also I think it's really useful to know where the authors looked at it. But how many of these patients were No, no, under undergoing investigation showed cancer prior to that presenting with attention. Obviously, I suppose the interventional thing they're looking at here not on intervention brought him, but the the kind of hazard of thing that's brought these patients into the study is acute urinary retention on that also want to know whether they looked any other forms of symptoms or things that brought them in or other urinary symptoms, for instance, kind of looking at the control. It's not clear from the affect what the baseline population rates of cancer are on, how those have been derived. They only give excess figures, which is obviously the absolute risk off the acute urinary cancer patient minus three background. That would be interesting to see how they've come up with the background on whether this is is that rate specific to Denmark, and is that a comparable rate? The UK and I think I get looking for to the outcome looking the cancer diagnosis that we see a meaningful outcome. I think the appropriate the follow up periods were appropriate as well. It's unclear if they they also followed up for other things, such as like mortality. I think that other general points to kind of being clear, even think of relevance is so you say this is a nation wide population of data, so it's like him to have been retrospectively reviewed and is there for second reliable data not requiring individual consenting. But my key issue with this study guess is that acute urinary retention presents an increased risk of, um, cancer. But if you could fit that run the other way, the cancer's they're looking at are the most likely force of retention. So it's uninterested study, but I'm not sure it really tells us a huge amount more than what we might have expected. Um, and then, I guess, thinking about how does this paper maybe change my clinical practice? Or how does it impact medical practice? On a general level, it's a single study. So obviously a cobalt study right so wouldn't change. It isn't a high enough quality data in the hierarchy of evidence to change clinical practice, but this this may not particularly familiar with this different area. But this may had to growing body of kind of kind of evidence, looking at the cute urinary retention as a predictor of cancer it might do. It certainly could be, including in systematic review metropolises. You agree with the office conclusions here done so just going back and looking at your sides so I can't see the day I can. Just having a quick look back at the abstract is a cute, very retention, maybe clinical marker for a cold cancer, and it should be kept. It should be considered. I think it's interesting because actually be, you know, being in clinical settings. If a patient presented with acute urinary retention with an unknown cords be surprised if that person wasn't investigated for some form or source of off cancer. And actually, I think the most likely cause is and sources be investigated for, ah, urological on Keller to cancer safe. I do agree with their conclusion, but I don't think that that's particularly helpful or in or novel. Take away my giving. You know, that's what I say this just because any questions about that is that Johnny, if anyone has any questions about what done just did a problem in the channel more quickly, I think what time? And so probably as you can tell from people who just wants that, even though I've had a little bit of time to probe beforehand, it's very difficult to talk about everything you want to talk about, to keep a structure. I'll even though it's just 100 30 people watching me on the Internet. It is nerve racking. And so you do need to think about a structure instructor will hopefully help you. Yeah, no questions, but that's it. So we can hear things. So I guess, final closing things to talk about. So don't give generic. We don't really talk about it. But don't give generic answers to open questions. You need to make your answer stand out on the way you would do that is by giving you really when they ask you about what's motivating you give a personalized, candid, slick, great sounding answer. Don't just answer generically for the abstract. Don't, folks. I'm regurgitating it. They've already read it. They already know what's going up. Don't focus on the minutiae, the granule in detail. Don't try and perform any complicated mental arithmetic. Just a Z you've seen me talking through. I stayed as far away from numbers. If you're a mathematical whiz, then you know feel free to dabble in it. But I think you'll find it hard on the day. And if you feel stressed, you'll you'll lose track of where you're up to on. Definitely don't underestimate it. Difficult in the station the clinical scenarios air quite intimidating. But I would say over to this is the one that's harder to really stand out on Exelon and you want that? Ah, no, I I agree. Basically, I think the money shy dripping upon on the statistics is an important one. But I think, actually, if you are able to convert things like relative risk into absolute risk and interpret these, I would expect or prepare for questions relating to this because those are obvious areas that they can really test your understanding. I wouldn't expect I wouldn't spend huge amounts of time learning different indications and limitations off statistical tests because that probably won't be covered. But sure, if you want to talk about things like parametrical number Ridge or you know what, some people might have a PhD in statistics and crack on, but I don't think that that's the point of the station s, so I wouldn't get too stressed about that on thinking about how you can now spend your time two weeks for some of you before your interview, spending huge amounts of time on that probably isn't beneficial at this stage. It's more. Don't try and learn huge amount of new information. But really, folks about folks on communicating what you already know in an interpreting abstract by just continually doing it over and over, uh, would be my advice. Okay, they got a huge number questions later. So really pretty after am going through The question is really quickly. Things that we've used to read a paper by Trish, but that's a green or frustrated, really. I really liked it, Jack. You weren't such a big fan. I think it's probably something that if you're go a few weeks into your interviews with reading, if your interviews like tomorrow, don't don't bother. The time has gone on for that. Which place is pretty good? Something. I love that if you what? Yeah, I love that. Actually, in my like breakdown phase of all, well, good. I'm not going to get the job. You know what to do. I did spend half a day just going through that, and it actually really focus by forcing It was very clear. There's one thing I'd recommend. Actually, it would be that book exactly. It's like it's just like an introduction to clinical academia that really and I want you to think about. Are you gonna approach these things? I would say something that I've never seen people recommend before, But I think I'm really pretty good actually. So BMJ endgames bye dot for Sedrick. So they are mostly focused around like the statistics like number need to tree andi specificity intensity, but they're very simple short articles. They ask you a question. They asked you to kind of define it, will think about it and then they give you really nice colors, obvious answers and then talk you through How? Talk through the reasoning behind it. So actually, you're stuck a little bit on statistics or getting your head around some of these concepts, and that might be worth just in the evening with something just to run through some of those and then very handedly, basically any article in any journal just read, just read them, read as many as you possibly can and just get used to reading them against the time pressure on grittily racing And I would say is, Well, we focused on the obvious trials, but it's not unheard off the people to get things like Nestle trials case control, So don't just get don't just practice randomized controlled trials. Uh, I certainly had a did I have. I had a crossover, I think. And it was quite actually difficult to interpret on the day they do very up your practice on also, these will. It's no unlikely. So that's a question. You know, Where would we go? Forget abstracts. It's not unlikely that they will just look at some of the larger journals on Dragon article off of there. Uh, Mr you. So just day for their gait for the common. You know, common talk journals, right? Questions, Just some of these questions. Yeah, Jewish only. Read them out. Yeah, um, in terms of personal question, that project you said you had agreed on a project preinterview, would you recommend contacting supervisors before any tips on how to find these? And if no, in London medical school? Personally, we did. However, not two weeks before your interview would be my recommendation. Because this can take some time on it's No, it's not a medical break, but it it just demonstrates the use that you've researched the job and you want the job, um, to be like him too. Quickly. Fire off me now. and it might help. It's not Don't. I wouldn't lie about it because I know people would be tempted to, but it's no unlikely you'll be interviewed by someone that works in the department. Um, so if you're going to, you know, make sure you actually, uh, next one, would you agree with that? Done. Yeah, really, I think, Um, yeah, if you and then I guess how do you go about doing that? So you go about doing that by I mean, I literally just typed in things like Nero Surgery, King's College Hospital, neurosurgery, Imperial nearest. And then we just roll through websites and find interesting checked. There's so many things in the internal of these institutes and things were all trying to, like get grant funding on day. They will have exposure to things. And most of the universities have a like a site map, and there'll be a list of institutes and you'll be able to see what staff members, a key staff members and stuff. But they will take a lot of tea reply. So if it's tomorrow, then you probably missed the date. Um, question if you did hypothetically know about finish healthcare system and happen best. Ikea. Would you make comments about that, then? Yeah, You Absolutely one the lottery, haven't you? Yeah, I know, I know. I'm actually really expert today is health medical system, but I just, you know, right now, I think definitely, Yeah. If you know something on Do you think you could make a good point out of it, then? Yeah. So it just you want The whole point is that you want to make yourself be memorable when I stand out on, but, you know, somebody is in the know and this was going on, so yeah, I mean that the incredible But it's mean. If that paper now comes up all 140 you're gonna be absolutely laughing. But I trip for the triggers and that I mean, it's essentially it's a more formal conversation is a Well, your interview is with a bit of structure. So, I mean, if you, when talking to an academic with would mention it, Absolutely. Why, no. Are you using the same abstract for everyone in the day? Don't think so. We have different ones now that we shared our abstract cause we wouldn't do that. But no. Yeah, I don't know they I think they may say different. Yeah. Is it possible to access the recording? Yeah. If you're going to on this website the medal Web site gone to the event from last week, you can read what cycle recording this one will go up after. Well, and it's all on the mindedly YouTube as well. Uh, would they ask if you agree with conclusion about the abstracts in front of you, would you be expected the memorize the general message of the conclusion I always write down the office conclusion. And also, actually, it's quite a good place to pay a T article because I'm not will make hugely generalizing sweeping statements based on very fragile methods on data on It's a Line S O. Yeah, I think it's fair again. It's fair game. To be honest, it's It sounds harsh that you might have the abstracts in front of you this year, but anything on the abstract is four again. So yeah, well, his name's so just so I I did get asked for an opinion about something really specific on, but because I was a bit grumpy because I waited two hours, I said, I don't understand. I don't know the answer because I haven't seen in two hours. If you tell me what if you tell me this Internet, I'll tell you. I think so. You know that That worked out okay for me. I'm not saying you should definitely do that, but I think if they're gonna ask you for a specific opinion on some numbers, for instance or something, you don't have it written down. Yeah, ask for it. But no one could criticize you for wanting more information before making decision. What we have access to in the time gap after the prep time, Unfortunately, nothing, Nothing. Whatever is in front of you at the time, Um, know even a toilet. Unfortunately, did they let you go to the lady? It didn't say. So you're just in a waiting room. You're just like a mark stuff. Teams waiting room. So, like one point I snuck out to go for a way about 1.5 hours in, and I was like, Well, if I'm late to my interview because I'm having a way, I've had to wait and a half already to say I'm sure you're fine, but it was just a waiting room. My read through minutes. I practiced talking through clinical scenarios on be kind of talking through the abstract giving answers. But it was by myself with no one for two hours. It was very born with bleeding problems last year. So we went long. Is knowing your project something that will make you look better every time? If you don't know Sure. What Specialist, you're interested? How could you still into the personal question constantly, without being specific about project? Um, don't need any advice. I mean, mine would just be just Whatever seems right to you is no, you don't where you're going to be f ones that you are absolutely not supposed to know where you're going to end up in 15 years time. At the moment, the whole point of the SFA is to just give a flavor of academia. Eso saying that you're really excited by the opportunity to dip your toe into academia is a good thing, not a bad thing. In my personal opinion, you'll find people that have done PhDs and have worked in a routine and know exactly what they want to do. Those people don't necessarily get the jobs, so I don't think that it's a you mean Just by coincidence, you've met two people who practiced together both new, really sort of exactly what they wanted to do. But most off the or probably approaching, almost approaching half of all the people who are doing s a fees. The kings, quite maybe nearly half don't know what they want to do necessarily. So So it obviously doesn't disadvantage to do because it's half of a big group of jobs, I think. How do you think about treating questions? So if you're know massively passion about any one specific area, then it sounds like you're open. Teo, try and lots of different things. But probably the key theme is your interest in that Kadeem your research. So that's how I would tell myself is that I haven't picked exactly why I want to do. But I know I'm interested in academia. So once I found whatever I want to do, then that's where we're going on. But that's where I'll practice it on. But actually the Jackson No one, really a is exactly what they want Teo to really all you're doing. Unless if he is learning the foundations off kind of clinical research skills and gaining experience. Doing said, Well, you have abstracted, friendly drink 10 minutes into itself. We did it in, but from above, it looks like there might have been a change in the pdf. So as always, whatever we've said to check against the SFP pdf thing that you're given every year, um, our experience was we didn't have it. Yeah, we just had our notes. We have access to a story again from millions of you. I don't think I did. I can't actually can't remember. I didn't have enough. But, I mean, my advice would be anyway, 10 minutes when you when you continue to practice, this is a really short period of time looking down and reading up anything apart from highlighted words. Just is going to, um, really run you off? So I go practice without and a few times with, um if you have it, and that's just about this. Don't make assumptions. That is gonna be that. And then are we able to access offensive devices are being watched? I didn't know whether I was being watched. I'm not sure with the you know. So we're not I I z I would just be You will be on. I would not get your phone now on. It's not. There's no point risking, you know, some of attention saying that you've cheated or you've done something untoward. Just put that stuff aside and just fixing to Yeah. Don't Don't know if you get a recipe job. Not unusual stresses. Is it worth accepting that we've exchanged topic particularly? This is more one for, like, a s s or wherever you are applying for. To be honest, um, we can give our opinion, but it doesn't matter. Is it better to ref preferences? According to the most hospitals, which are near a surgical unit that's up to you done personally for me? I did. I rent everything in the order that I wanted it and I didn't think anything that I wouldn't accept otherwise on. That was my approach. But now it's personal opinion. No, I completely agree. I think if you I think you shouldn't right jobs that you wouldn't want to take. If you say no to that job that takes you out of the that, that takes you out of the process. I think if I wouldn't. I also wouldn't ranked jobs at hospital doing something you don't want on the off chance you could transfer into something like neurosurgery. So two reasons for that one. It's gonna be if you get for instance, they pick especially hematology. It's not gonna sound great to your hematologic. A little academic supervisor. Whatever name is it. On day one, you turn up and say they think you do for a job not interested in total Want to go do your surgery on, then the other thing to think about is from the nearest every side. They will already have people who do research we're doing in a sippy. They may not have space they may not have. The resource is to kind of accommodate you, even if they wanted Teo, so they probably would. But it just is about balancing things, making a fair for one. So I would say, Just pick the jobs that you want on Does more than enough neuro science, for instance, jobs in London to be able to rank? And I'd caveat somewhat to say that you should know you should know your program because we're aware of certain programs. For example, the George's general practice program, which is notorious for having supervises that are actually very flexible in what you do your research in on, actually, that they see that as a benefit of the program. So don't focus specifically on the time total per se, but it still sticks that if you don't want to do the job, then yeah, if you are, um, are you probably have ulcerative. You're taking two now, I think, Yeah, I would I would have been. In fact, it's really good. FDA is if if you have. Okay, surely what? I think we should probably try to place, thank you. So go anywhere we need to tell the relaxed Oh, yeah, yeah. Didn't they say hang on security. Say exactly where you're falling apart. Okay. Say sweetest thing to say, to have so many Sinus ups that more like 4800 sign ups at this point. So we have recruited some or f peace and academically collectors and conditions to help our So we'll be in touch with the You know, it's a Nemo. It's not not arrived or whatever. It will be on the way. If you haven't signed up tonight is your last chance to sign up at that link there. That is an interactive you to type in. Um on. We will get back to everyone with allocations and stuff in, probably the next week. But the week? Yeah, so that's the final. That's like your final final warning, I guess on then. The other thing to say is feedback. Please, Honestly, please do fill out. We're obviously doing this for free. Um, I think 100 30 people came last time on about 20 people. Feel that feedback. So you're taking five minutes really useful for us. So we have some evidence that we actually did give some information to, you know, hold people about 140 people. It's evening. It's really beneficial for us and helpful for us. They're also means if we leave on this again, will know how to improve it and make it better for next year. But that's it for me. Anything else? Just please, please, please do to be back for us. It's the one thing that we'll get to evidence, but also you guys might be able to deliver this to or next year, and we could turn it into some kind of, you know, published publication of how we can wide an access for SST on stick the middle middle finger up toward the companies that are charging us or charging students for this Basically. So you are the evidence that please do so we'll leave upset for a couple minutes. Oh, Brian, that's it. We probably have to jump off soon because, uh, zoom will close. Probably. But if you have any other questions, please do drop in the chat right now. Well, indefinite feeling like interviews again. Years? Uh, so hey, teaching yes, colon foresight for such Monday. Believe before quickly copy. That way we find it fine. Jackson face it. Technical question is possible. Do anything position yet expect them to ask you questions practice both talking all the way through without any problems and also practice asking questions being interrupted on. Get Dennis, you complete people. It really, actually massively different. So Jack by the sounds was interrupted quite a bit. There were whole sections of mind where I was just talking just monologuing and I wasn't being asked questions. So there is clear difference in inter Inter interview of variants, which we know is the case Because you know everyone. You're a sad Pasquin. Before we all know the Oscar examiners all react differently. And this is essentially a bit more like and interviewed, then escape. But the clinical, But it's basically a bit like asking, um cool. Right. Uh, I think we stopped there off the recording. Thanks for months on. Best of luck, Um, your preparation only in there and move back in again.