So You Want To Be A Surgeon?
Summary
This on-demand teaching session for medical professionals will provide attendees with ways to explore and pursue their passion for medicine through lectures, discussions, and reflections from another med student. The speaker will share their own experiences in medical school, from pre-med to the fourth year, detailing the successes and struggles. Attendees will explore the importance of self-care, networking, volunteering and research to be successful in the field. They will learn more about the supportive environment, resources and internships that can help them and understand the ins-and-outs of the medical journey, as well as tips and advice.
Learning objectives
- Learn the basics of deciding whether or not to pursue a research opportunity in Medicine.
- Identify the relevance of associated extracurricular activity for specialty training.
- Contemplate strategies for maintaining physical and mental health throughout Medical training.
- Analyze the tools required for facilitating successful networking in the medical field.
- Understand the importance of publications in medical training and development.
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The following transcript was generated automatically from the content and has not been checked or corrected manually.
we'll start. So having it's really kind of useful to her the respective at the beginning. And then Rebecca taking a the more kind of training partner in West is that now and then finally, this world is to speak through kind of an overview and reflecting back on life is a consultant in how kind of, um, doctor, really any questions you have with exercise? Just a lipoma cuny and lose back so I can stop driver? Yes. Saving means always. Sorry. That study a WiFi. I felt I've got a bit of data that see if after what, did you try it again? Goodness may. Well, wonderful. I'd want deleting on. Sorry about that. I'm sure you can only applies to the celiac. Quite fine. Um, it's my pleasure. Um, as your, uh, search of copays on. I've done this talk a few times before, and I really enjoyed doing every time on bit keen on surgery, and I love talking about the process of it. What? Uh, well, I think you reaching for years, but in med school to really don't got the application. Um, So, like I said on the copays have so so forth year information to me, Doctor. So in my previous talks that I've done this in I've got a very didactic session of, like, this is what I've done and it's all very helpful. This is why I think you should do in the best things to do. And I think this'll aunt you, especially in circulation. Introverted. I think I've taken a bit more, uh, kind of it is not to reflect and thinking about probably I'll still way to go about, like surgical application in the surgical bath in med school. So I hope this evening that's the one, like in share with you. So we're not gonna do this. We're not going to go through after all these competitions and search for skills courses and really expensive stuff obviously come to surgical skills companies run by us is they're fantastic, But you don't have to do and stress yourself out. Talk about is already a really stressful time. And so, without further ado, we'll have storytelling. So I thought I'd spend five anecdotally what I've done over the past five years. You feel a med school home? My grandson doctors got no one medical family. My brother, he's four years older than me, and he did medicine before me. Uh, but getting working spirits and stuff struggles because I don't have any contacts until I found to be signed up for a mailing list, which I definitely shouldn't have been a part of it is from the, uh, Robert James. I understand will be there's a little weed he 16 year old Iraq Teo register on a training session, which definitely shouldn't have been out of 16 on the Professor, obviously. No, just that I wasn't bearded. I struggled my facial handle little 18 60. It wasn't a local guy. Put me at the end. He said, we're doing here, You on to the option chest interested in medicine and surgery. Do you mind if I fell you for a bit your enough for the following two years for med school? He took his wing. I had some fantastic experience with that. It was both boots on just really don't want to be orthopedics. Unfortunately, Andi couldn't convince me. So at that point, where aspirations is still pretty unsure. Funny enough, given on other two weeks this evening, it's thinking about called Express it and ends up being a bit too cool for me. It's unfortunate on there's a nice horse in photos off my brother, my sister and bends of older hate doing fellowship from pizza during surgery. So pre 10 years medicines really hard gets a bit stressful. You're thinking maybe you want to do surgery. But then there's so much from 10 Onda Low Saloon You in a new environment, you for you from home. Now you're making friends all the contents really hard on. But you're also feeling like this huge amount of pressure on you. Maybe not maybe having a great time first. But for me, I have seen it's pressure myself would be, well only in med school, but feeling to be doing extra things, being involved in things on just keep going and didn't give myself in your down to the fact it's going to end up like this in first year. I'm not very good at 40 and that's why I'm gonna floor on that girl is now an F one. I think this truck now have to have you missed ago. So, Keith thing for creatine for years, uh, absolutely getting bored with the things that certainly have to go on, get involved down time to really essential on Have some fun, but it in the first year. That's where I kind of started to get involved in research. So then I always thought the term unleashed was a bit funny. Uh, there's no one's in nature. Don't really know my little medicine when we go to third year anyway, you've gone to the wars on what there's loads, more information, and there's a lot more time. So what said that I'm a bit of research in 1st and 2nd gets the year that on any just feeling for students listening this evening, if I just that is a great opportunity to get broken stuff, really bump up the, uh if there's a lot more confident there's a lot more and insult. It's really nice on. Registrar is often a baker, intelligent and really know how to get high yield stuff. That's to find someone that you like to find something you're interested in and just get talking to use that time for me. I was based on water, which is excellent, and I talked about how much a lot, of course, a lot of time I did lots of my research, and so he missed my research of the qd the security. So it's a sense of excellence. Many things, um so there's some of the just awful things about getting like in some stuff out. You'll find most people helpful. So yeah, 30 is a good year to start getting started researching and obviously, when you can get into theaters. And obviously most importantly, I joined surgery when I was in third year. And I think actually, it was the year after Doctor Paris, you speaking after me was the president, so we never actually crossed paths. Unfortunately, there's the, uh, the right track team with the number on the back with both of his arms up. He's come. They don't do that. If I it stretches the other situation. Maybe maybe it doesn't turn any move for a while. It's inflation is fantastic, and night highly recommend it for failure. The indication in and asked me a section What's covered was less from, And like I said, there is loads of time for restart. Absolutely loads. And I said what you're doing, Um, whether it's the guessing and that's me with its be minutes. I did construction it's not necessarily about what you're doing and a degree in its for me at least missed more about a bit more time. Work within a research and clinical team to really get my foot in the door to figure out a If that team is, um and and and the research, the specific topic was something interested in, and I was very lucky. I had a great men. The mental that I met in first year is the chapter. I ended up doing my dissertation project with 3.5 years later because I really like that on. But sure enough, I know, like the stuff on on, um, interesting things. I'm researching a moment and did so through my interpretation. So I know there's, I think the inflation medications are coming up for the 3rd and 4th years. I think it's I would highly recommend, you know, looking for future applications, and I certainly have a fantastic It's nice to take that bit of a break from, um medicine and obviously get the nice to invite me. Fourth year is a tricky one. I'm gonna halfway through. Can't speak ever interrelation continue for many things. Um, very interesting. There's not necessarily a lot of time to find a new interest in finding projects. Spn on that crease. So sure, finishing reductions there and, uh, who has been sent here to see and there is medicine. But then SBC, which is our surgical block, is I'm currently hair. If it's I've come back to my cellmate counsel, see if this afternoon for the tool on for GP tomorrow. But I was really nervous about going to tear if it was too far away. You stay down there when you're in the week, but it's really bean a realize open for me. So before Hereford, I call you when we give you the other talk. Just very didactic of this is what you need to do these other things. And if anyone wants that talk, I can send it to you on. It's got lots of different stuff and you can send it by the email, especially, you know, and but the reason I want to give this to you because started to rethink and reflect on the fact that you don't have to do you have to be 100% really burning yourself out to get it for Leo Toe Tip top and publishing nonstop from Is Empty. No, we were doing No, just med school. But your extracurricular things trying to friends probably won't get it again. That's probably where on Derrick is. Really, Give me time to just relax on. Sure we'll do some where I could do some extra curricular things, Understand? Maybe the part I have taken it with past four years isn't necessarily the best way to get into get into surgery. And the healthiest way I would say, Take stock on, really think about when you're taking opportunities on Is it something you're going? Julie, And is it something that you're going to be able to do? Safety on Go. Ah, actually, I think is a good way to put it on. Most proud of shipment being searched copays this year with which is wonderful. Um, so advice on key points, the quick on break. If you're in preached, then if the opportunity presents itself, consider it. Think about if the opportunity for research or, um kind of better is, um, you want to do it if it's something that's gonna be useful to you, and you can learn to do it is so young, the modules quite hard in medical at that time. It's a lot of new environment for you. So you released into the boards? I think, in 30. If the opportunity presents itself Caesar. And if it doesn't maybe try and find it urges a great year to really enjoy medicine, really get into some search for research as well, as well as opportunities for teaching for leadership insulation on biased. But I definitely recommend Think it's a nice to have a bit of a stock break. I think it's really important, Uh, no matter whether or not you want to be an academic surgeon or a surgeon who does like anemia public patients, you have to have publications failure not met necessary loads. It can be quite fun. I'm taking the research that I did last year and some other stuff over to Belfast next week to do some posters, and that's my first impression conference because it was very good last year. I'm really excited. Networking opportunity. Missing three days of placement. This is a is not so fun with me here with research, spy order, the hard slog to get into it forth. Yeah, hunter the opportunity. It is a busy year. But if you haven't done it, you think in fourth year you have opportunities toe have to do in the curriculum. The audit project from contention you published, Or even if you're just doing a new topic sbcs PM. Maybe find some. Interesting. You want to get involved in the tea? Yeah. Usually I just let you know. No, no idea, but it's quite nice. Um, are you g p? It's actually reading about it. I said, yes. I'm a listen, but nervous. I'm gonna enjoy it. You know, key thing is be a bit of a chameleon. I know you're thinking Gosh, that's an excellent photo. He's probably got that off. Google would be wrong. I took that myself and I was scratching my phone, looking for appropriate for you to be a comedian, throat or five years or four years me. Try and be adaptable. Change the environment. Andi. Yeah, really trying to make that metaphor fit. Don't, uh, don't shy away from things that make sure you don't take too much on and yeah, fine. Finish off. There are three big hitters that I was told in first year that I need to really make sure I did throughout my five years, and that was research, teaching and leadership. I really tried hard to get all three of those things done, and I would encourage people to do the same and encourage you guys toe have a good research half ago teaching and having good a leadership opportunities on research over. So that's good. It's quits. Publications, president, Asians, the unique you appear stuff in hospital. I think I did some like big teaching with Ms in second year. You can do I show Head of Anatomy is exceptionally with Camille are expected. It set off the inserts program, and that is absolutely ridiculous amount of work on a phenomenal, phenomenal achievement for them to set up. And that's gonna be a huge three month long international teaching. So you can really get from right to the bottom just a simple lecture helping students. Can you blow you to a huge national program on the leadership of things like getting involved in societies both within, you know, a and national These in mind that catches. I think these are things that whenever I started 50 be, is that the three things I'd really well, people's take way from the store, if you wanna. You researched get probably involved in the tree. And you I think you need these three things any. It's just life very hard. Uh, publishing. Sorry. Love it. I think you're breaking up quite a bit from him. Then. What? Yeah, you're breaking up the think if we can repeat what he says, where to did about the publishing and kind of getting involved in research part. Yeah, we only on the actual big hit me right here. Yes, thank you. Story wife. Either. Life has trouble. Um, just stop me if it does that again. Uh, so with research publishing, find a mental find a consultant who is nice was well published, who knows their field And just worse, they can say is no. And then I put times to there because the biggest step up I took in, like me doing research on me, like getting some yield out of work I was doing was finding someone in the middle. So someone who is in their junior year's on there is also keen to be a surgeon or so keen on what you're doing and work with them for the same consultant. So I've been very lucky. I, uh, met a hate to be surgeon. First year I played hockey with the guy lost Oh, in first year on what you was in his 50 year after integration, and now I work with that chapter I knew from hockey, sometimes to turn work out for the consultant. And that makes it way easier for me because it means I don't have to go to a consultant for the on protections, little things, and they're now ST one, and I work together to get publications in preparation. Next Support network, family friend's House mates, sports team. It's whatever is use the support at work, whether it's for research, whether it's for trip, whether it's for watching a film, watching squid gain, excellent, by the way I've been seen and really use it and talk to people about what you're doing. First of all, if you're interested in if they're interested, we'll say just Oh, just chap on Reverted What I mean and finally, the better knowing. But you do need a bit of resilience. There are lots of times that research project seem they're a bit too big to be doable and finish a ball, but they are and they'll be worth in the end. Finally, this is the most important thing you need to be competitive, as in, like a suppressant analogy trade to be competitive. I think you're at the case. She needs to be competitive. No, think over this last year, especially I've learned, is important to bring others up with you. You do not need to put other people down to get the where you want to be, uh, fast competition in surgery. And you know, there's a bottleneck at the top, for sure. But you're gonna do way better, and you're gonna enjoy it way more if the people around you are supporting you and you're supporting them, even if you want to do the same thing. So, yeah, it's competitive. Yeah, be someone who thrives in the competition and supports the other one rather than putting them down on. That's the There are lots of examples of how you can do that. So, yeah, try and end up like that. That was maybe three years ago, and I guarantee you never That's my butt. My No, I didn't talk about a lot of research. Advice of publications and stuff. If you guys want to talk about that, I'm more than happy for you to email me. But this evening, I want to talk about anecdotal things. Oh, uh, the surgical. I'm sorry it's been stable, but I'm gonna start you now to get my cheesy Grim with the screen. How we doing? All right. Thanks. Thank you very much, Louis, Or that talk. I was very insightful. Louis is probably one of the most keen future surgeries I've met. So if you've got any questions or anything, you know, free to him up in a demon. I'm sure he'll be happy to, um, for um Now we'll move on to our next speaker. Doctor Rebecca Paris. Who's ST Warning? Cardio blast. It's accurate. So yeah, handled with you. Thank you. You can you see when it's green? Yeah, we can. Okay, great. Thank you so much for inviting me back. Teo, do it all today. It's lovely to see the new committee and that social could still going strong. So this is basically a little bit about myself and, you know, get into court training. And this in general advice for you guys. So this is the things that we will go over and talk. I'm just writing some nails, conspiring my presentation. I have a little bit about me to get with. I'm currently in ST One. Mister Rogers. Actually, my boss went in cardiothoracic sitting the Queen Elizabeth. I was one of the top 10% African stability course, such from training, a recruitment that just went through now. And I got the country Coast, one of the run three posts in general surgery. I did the academic foundation for Brian in education. And after I graduated and I got a PG set, my graduate from very, um in 2019. Well, while I was there from the view, remember that I was pressed in the search sock on. I was the founder off the bat and, um, surgical standpoint to him, which is a great conference that highly recommend you guys go on. Um, I'm really happy to see that that's continuing. Even then or no left. I was doing interrelated, but I indicated in music and I touch on that a bit late because it's something a bit different on it. Just to show that you don't have to always do what's right front of you. And there are other options for anyone that's interested in something a little bit different. The why pick surgery? I mean, I think you guys are changing because you probably quite interested in said we already or you found it to be fun while you're on replacement, but really is quite diverse and challenging specialty on this is attractive. Too many people that do it. It's very hands on and practical. And I think to me that's what really appeals taken me that you actually physically treat patients. So things like moving cancers, um, saving limbs. You know, this is all really, really rewarding thing to do, and there's a lot of satisfaction for your job job that's factored in and doing that. It's fast paced on. It's certainly unpredictable. You never really know what your day is going to line up to be like. It's a mixture of intellectual ability and manual dexterity On another. Great thing is the team work aspect of that are being this part Research 14 but also having the opportunity to be a leader within the surgical team. Um, just a sliver said. There's lots of research opportunities, so I don't think it would be fair. And if I didn't mention of some of the down sides, so it's not to put people off, but it's just sort of be aware that these are some of the drawbacks of surgery is quite long, are pitted training on UM, you are doing many different should often. So you know, compared to GP, I'm not going to be down. The lining comes up me about that. You know, with there are lots of night shifts. I'm currently on a certain honest moment. All caused is 12.5 13 hour shifts on. Do you know that is not as long hours? It's physical people. That's just not what they want to do is to much so it's nothing to bear in mind. I'm thinking surgery is a future career. There's also an impact with your family and social ours because of working these on such flowers. But, you know, for some people, this is really worth it, and you shouldn't have a really good balance. It kind of Questran smoke, especially with six agents, and that's the nature Cedric the most in some people are like, physically ill. Another drawback is that, given how competitive it is, this book, you know, Louis natural before you can sometimes be competing for the third time. But often you do, um, honesty. So the training pulse was a whole to us. You guys on our medical degree the next day to leave the foundation training, but the following they're still apply for core training on left, you're going to have them, especially sub just cardiac arrest extend. Have their own bunch of retraining class a cold in your toe. Three. The half a room So cool training is a two year program on. There is a central recruited think through Oriole, just like a little to do your foundation on. It is convinced it following Nestea will apply it especially training, which is approximately six years, often is longer. Many people are doing creations now doing fellowships and extra and learning, and special is, um's so it can take longer than six years following. This is your little higher training and shoulders were just are more experienced with that side of things all the first day, that more time, anything that they're mild. All of these is that each stage there is a competitive entry, so there are few exams that need to sort of get done. And in the journey to the way there, as many of you haven't seen this particular leaflet, it is really helpful for anyone that's new, too. Thinking back surgery It's produced by the Road Closures surgeons a few years ago. On out, all of the 10 recognise. Such, especially, is a little bit about each one. It also told you about things like Folio Courses on gives you lots of generic career replies. The 15 lbs a year you could be an affiliate member of the World College. I'm not loving this, so it's completely up to you. But I would recommend you going to take a look anyway, just to see what, What. It's a useful to you from there. The interview off the recruitment process says approximately 2500 applicants for 600 jobs, and I checked to 2021 congratulated, staying about 2528 for about 677 dot so that if those line up because now what we're going for in this with Krugman is what we call a 24 months of the two year seemed and one thing to posts. So these can be just generic poster, are made up of different specialties or if you're seen, so it's just the one that's plastic thing. They might have two or three even crossed expectations within the thing. It doesn't mean you're a plastic straining. It just means that your call surgery time esteemed the other thing that introduced the's 96 months. So this is what I asked. One of these is the run through islands, and it's partly improving, um, surgical training pilot when we can now get these longer training in orthopedic external surgery. Last eternally dfx anti in urology, unfortunately on. But I've heard in the last few weeks that this year's recruitment, coming up in November on next year's will not feature these posts. Do you guys, it's, you know, not mention someone up. You're not climb right now. I really hope they bring these back. These are you on? You know, these are really attractive for, um, people because obviously they can stay where they are. I think I think it will come back. I think it's just to do with um, both the next at ST three. So off the recruitment, there's a self assessment score. This was introduced you to code it explicitly. You been taking for you to, um, Fish face interview. But they changed it to a self success or whether it stays like that. I think he will for the time being. But and we'll just come back to that. Then there's an interview on your school, always to third interview, and one stared off your evidence and you will be much out of 721 which was what the banking was launched. Ever as you consider the, there aren't 721 jobs. So just because you get drunk after in today wasn't necessarily mean that you've got a job. The application is partly Shal a non listing. So you guys have a Google for the person specifications is really quite basic stuff, the most part of it. But it's worth being a familiar with it because some people I never have been calling on file it, especially people that are doing F three years of four years on. Just continue to do lots and lots of months and search for post and then to find out shock or other. Actually, they're not done too much surgery. I know that sounds counterintuitive, but that is the thing on that they weren't eligible to twice a cool it's worth taking a look easy. Google and the short list thing came in two parts in this last application. That's what was the self assessment school with the criteria that you can see that. And then the second part was the Theo Vidin upload on your verified school. The interview was approximately 20 minutes on it featured on presentation a call from her in advance, but also that becomes rankings and then so things you can do as a mixed you now, Okay, Because when I think back to Well, I did, I did. I think most of my stuff for my application, like during But if the school. So in terms of commitment to specialty, there are surgical courses you get you get actually went to the harmony that you dependent is not so much in school. You haven't yet under elective. I would suggest if you were thinking surgery to do so. Elective. There are plants for this on start keeping a search log book haven't been off it a lot, but it's free, okay? And you can start looking your surgeries that you attend on there, and it's really good evidence on when it comes around to the application in terms of additional quantifications. This was never said. I would highly recommend insulating. It's a great opportunity to do the degree of year know Many other people don't get this opportunity, but we do it. Let it. Really? If you can go on a website called Interval a coda, okay? And you will find so many different types of integration of able to you. There are many, many more available than just the ones offered a burn. Um, not slating on the bed. And they're brilliant, but people like me A. When I looked through the book level, the different recesses it didn't actually get interesting at a time. Uh, arrhythmia Want to gain music. Before I wanted to be medicine. When I found Plymouth office and in place, degree and music, I didn't think it was really but I don't touch them. And it, boss, I was the only one. You could do it. Yeah. How about if you email subsequently thing. People interested, I think thing. Only one personal me taking it out. But they're not available today. So have a look in terms of rises in the wards. And there are the highest month, which you can get financial price. Check out things like that. Are some website what so many available prizes on there? It doesn't necessarily have to be surgery to pass your medical related. If you are one of the high flyers on you, get a distinction of medical school. Don't want to get you. So the second most number of points after that, it's more than one prize original price of scholarships. So we want to get a scholarship burning in, um, but then I also got during my time there for the SS. See how I did something in surgery and then got a distinction that one bit on. Then I used my work from my music degree to apply for the pill with bottling award, which are then got on a good price. So about a one price. I didn't quite get a distinct smells on that finding, but I did get in with us in terms of eating, um, get involved with third stock. Okay, So get involved with these surgical skills. Do some teaching you guys doing great things like that to me. And I didn't get involved with that because that is important. And even for medical school, you can start betting points on this. Now, just try and get feedback. You do, and you should try and do it three months or more. Stuff where it is you hit, really? Time are on. This one is out of regional level, which is easier to do in my opinion, when you go on to foundation training. But it is doable, even thinking about it now it has a presentations. I this and Orel presentations internationally on for the higher marks that share. It was, I think, a one a world presentation, naturally or internationally. So just like this, I found some really good mentors. Our water, my hospital, Mr. Mirza, if anyone comes across him, he's an absolute gem on the law. Worked him and we went to time. But Finland on girls go went a few places, and it actually I got something from also for many of the drip. So it was really great and that, you know, that was an easy box to take a look stunned during medical school. Religion management can be a slightly more difficult one to do, but in terms of local leadership search stop committee, there's many positions on. Then you can get involved with stocks. Good star asset do often advertises student right positions, and I never was involved in this myself with that. But my friends have done that and also being a rat's. These are just some of the courses, so there are a lot of honey, And what about you guys could do now. But if you look at the Asset one's parent for a career in surgery on foundations, skills and surgery, he's a free facet. Members eso assist, you feel not as much. So it might be worth having a look at these down Start. To think, of course, is as a foundation doctor who operated doesn't end. But that was during a surgery. You get points if you suck. Two MLS, Yes, even if you failed it. So this is something I have done. I've just started now. I don't know how about when, but we'll see a surgical taste that on courses order completed ward it cycle. I'm present, Did it? We delay me, but for the most points, and that's 11 point. There's a lot of points for this. So no, Now start thinking about things if you're in one place for a long time, but you did. You get into the foundation train and you need to be on the hunt for a border that is doing well. I'm really doable. Okay, because that's where the points come from. There are lots of regional presentation, they said. The National Transportation Presentation Day, which includes Well, I'm sending mine out. That got four points. Yeah, so, again, teaching at a regional level. No training and teaching. There are lots of teacher training courses which you can do, but they have to be quite substantial for that. I It's the foundation performing education's that was called out that my preference on occasion. So this got me a points in this section on for anyone thinking about 50 or, you know, maybe thinking, Oh, I don't know if I've done well enough that you need just absolutely apply for it. I was not one of these people in the first or second guess. Ours was No, no, I wasn't. But I still managed to get it. And I thought, you know, this is really, really helpful. So it's definitely left on me, and it's a lot of fun publications again, Um, I think loses didn't put a little knot front, but for it can be quite difficult to get publications because visit and actually sit down and write a paper and send it off to get it back, cetera, cetera. But you get the points unless you need to be first of all. So in two or more an original Lisa's for big fish. And then and then the the Chip National I said career deals. So I did regional be in in a breath, which is something that I did well during your foundation. Here is, if you're interested on, I was also the Januvia, but for chair. But do you guys will comports when you stop? Was a foundation doctor when you hospitals and I won't really go through this because, like I said, it's been removed for the present time. But essentially the ST Posts are people that really know what they want to do on. They want to stay in the same place and don't have to reapply for ST Teresa is a bit of security in that sense, but you have to get away with bits and bobs over. It's a nice thing to have my opinion, but you are committed to one place in for eight years. The core training is began is great, especially if you're not a 100% sure what will be able to do. So this is how this is a dream run for the next two years Electrical Scotland and said that any place that after run through that moment clinics your cycles. So just a few tips having recently gone through the experience, start early Start now, your school don't wait until you become a doctor because the application starts in November of your F two. So that doesn't mean that you have two years. It means you have one year and we have a few months. Okay, Don't be little bit into the trap of thinking about two years when I stopped because you doing always say yes to everything someone says you wanna contact later. Yes. Do you want a scrub? Yes. Do you want to transfer you to get it. So, yes, you've got people that are with you that can, you know, really guide you. And you should really take these on your immunities. Get your evidence together. Really? Don't leave until they turn them way into your lights trying to see where that course it'd get it five years ago because it is really difficult to do that. Especially now that you have to upload your own residence and you really need to put things all together. So keep a little folder. I just kept a little blue folder. I put all my stuff in there and you saw practice into feet questions. Don't be scared to walk even if it sounds absolutely rubbish. It's still not just didn't give it a good baby aspirin. You're going to get better from doing it again and again. I'm like where you want to go. So I want one of my talk to the stocks and you know, everyone wants to go to London or bearing in wherever. So we just back where you want to go on try while you're at this stage to experience, not stiff in past surgery. I like general, but I always say to Mister Rogers know open minded. So if all of a sudden on absolutely in love with cardio thoracic, then I looked at where? Okay, but we're gonna leave Fresh is today, but this is like, you know, guys, still anyone has anything else that won't cost. And please, do you feel free to contact me and I will get back in. Thank you. All right. Thank thank you very much for that on great tours. A lot of detail in there. Um, we've got a few questions that human able answer those after our final talk, which is already done by it's been It's a Rogers, a consult and cardiothoracic surgeon at the Curie. So over there now. Okay. And so Good evening, everyone. And thank you so much for the opportunity to speak to you this evening. Um wow. Lewis and Rebecca. I mean, I wish I'd done half of these things when I was in medical school. Thinks anyway, I'm going to share my screen. Hopefully, Sure? Yeah. Okay. Oops. So I was just given the topic of talking about life a surgeon, um, on basically the things that I'm gonna cover is sort of my journey into surgery a bit about life as a surgeon on then, sort of my tips for embarking on surgical training, which obviously now that's sort of slightly removed from previously, um, but also a bit about what I think make good qualities of a good trainee on that's based on my experience both as a trainee, but then also now as a consultant on Then I am going to talk about work, life balance as well, cause I was asked to cover that a bit. So my journey into surgery was had a slightly different really to Rebecca's on, certainly to lyricist. I certainly wouldn't have been sitting at a surge sock event. I The first search sock event I went to is a cardiothoracic registrar, a sucker ears there at Birmingham say I'm quite different from that. Um, I actually decided towards the end of my P r. H a year or what is now f y one that I wanted to do surgery and I hadn't really made any, um, I suppose effort in that direction prior to that. In fact, when I was in medical school, I was very much I don't want to be a surgeon and I don't want to be a psychiatrist and possibly not, GP, but I wasn't in. Other than that, I wasn't sure I was very much hospital physician was what I thought I wanted to be. But I changed my mind during my well f y one year end of f y one year on. Then I did an any job stand alone, which consolidated the fact that I wanted to do surgery. Um, and during that time I sat the first part of my MOC s. And then that sort of set me up really to apply for what was then called basic surgical training, which was essentially what is now course surgical training, which covered a different set of specialties on go covered things like general urology, orthopedics on also, cardiothoracic switch was my first job. Um Onda It was during that time that that's what inspired me. And I think it's very true that you get inspired by who you work for, um, on the exposure that you get to a specialty on. But, um, I was really inspired by pediatric cardiac surgery on, so I identified somebody who then became my mental Onda used them to sort of guide me through that, too. I went off, did my rotation after my initial cardiothoracic job on, took the final part of my MRCs on, then came back and did an additional sort of job in cardiothoracic. So and then modernizing medical careers happened. Now that isn't really very relevant for you guys. But to be honest, it was awful. It was absolutely awful. And there a certain sort of cohort of people of my generation who are called the Lost Tribe, who basically missed out on specialty training because they changed the way it was set up. There were no jobs in cardiothoracic set that time. Um, and I noticed some of these asked a question about interventional cardiology, which we can answer in the question and answer thing. But that was part of the sort of anxiety it the time. But after modernizing medical careers, there were five S T three posts nationally and one ST to post on D. I was lucky enough to get the ST to post in Birmingham. Um, uploaded on through my surgical training, ended up taking two periods of maternity leave during my ST seven year. Um, Andi, I did have a brief period of less than full time. I know there's another question about that so we can talk about that as well in in the quick Q and A session, then cc tt in cardiothoracic so on. And now I'm a consultant plastic surgeon at the QE. But as you can see the sort of lots of undulations as you go through on your sort of surgical path. So why do people want to do surgery? And obviously, this is something that, you know you search your mind about the whole time, and this isn't for this is no thinking about it from an interview perspective. This is thinking about it on terms of Is this something that you really want to commit to? It is incredibly rewarding on do. It was the fact that you get to do something that makes somebody better and can make somebody better really acutely. Somebody could be sick, incredibly sick, and then you could do something definitive on they will be better on You can improve somebody's quality of life. You can save somebody's life or you can change their long term outcome, and that's mainly what I do now. We like to think that we did for a six surgery when we're operating predominantly on lung cancer. But as has been, sort of, you know, said so much by Lewis and Rebecca, it is fun as well. But part of the reason it is so much fun is because it is a very much a team sport, and that is whatever area you go into in medicine. And it was so refreshing to hear Louis talking about very much. The concept of like, lift is you climb or supporting others? Yes, it is competitive, but actually you will find that you excel better and that you will, you know, achieve mawr. If you work well with your colleagues, they are, you know, your competitors to some extent. But at the end of the day, it is a team sport on. Do you have to? You have to get on with people you have to support each other. You know on That's going to mean that you build those good relationships for the future as well. And you also build those habits for the future, which absolutely essential. It does have long hours during my career. The European working Time directive has been brought in. Um, I have very mixed feelings about that, To be honest, you know, when I was a house officer, we used to do the whole weekend, the Friday, the Saturday, the Sunday until five o'clock on the Monday um, you know, without official breaks and things, that's obviously massively changed on deviously. Now people have gone to very much shift working. Um, but having said that again, if you are working well with your colleagues and you're interacting positively with them on you, you know, have a good working relationship, then. Actually, those long hours are a bit better. If you've got good colleagues as well, it can be stressful. Um, there's no denying that, as a Rebecca was saying, You know, obviously patients could be really sick on, but this is not particularly talk geared about cardio for a six. But cardiothoracic patients can be particularly sick, and they can deteriorate very quickly, Um, on. But they can, you know, arrest die incredibly quickly. That is stressful. Making decisions in those situations is stressful. Um, Andi, obviously, that can be quite as a high pressure environment, but equally, some people thrive in that sort of environment. on. But, you know, obviously that can be incredibly rewarding if you deal with that sort of environment put emotionally draining as something separate to being stressful. And I think this is something that people don't really talk about enough. I think people are getting better talking about mental health. People getting better about talking about resilience on. Certainly the Royal College of Surgeons of England has got some excellent podcasts, some of which have tackled this sort of idea of resilience but also problems with dealing with mistakes and communicating about those. It can be particularly emotionally draining, though, if you feel that you are responsible for the serious harm of the patient or for the death of a patient, i e. Somebody has died because of an operation that you did, Um, and they wouldn't have died at that time had they know How about operation? And that first happened to me when I was, um, quite a senior registrar. Onda it was It's difficult because, you know, ultimately, my boss's name was above the bed. Of course, Now that's me. Eso It would be my name off the bed, but it still was. He hadn't scrub him for the case. I'd done the whole case myself on. Do you know the patient did die several days later? Would I have changed anything? No. Um but it is something that you have to accept that that will happen. Some specialties. It happens more than others. You know, if you're a foot surgeon, it's probably less likely to happen to you, but in cardiothoracic So it's a reality, unfortunately on. But it is something that you've got to think about, how you're going to deal with that on. There are healthy ways of dealing with that, and there are less healthy ways of dealing with that. But also, everybody is an individual on different people. Find different ways of dealing with it. It is something that isn't talked about, as I said, a Z, much as it probably should be. Um, but I think that we are getting better at doing that on dirt. Me talking about it seems to be better than just bottling it up and on something that I suppose I felt I should mention, is that actually operating, Although that's what everybody thinks that surgeons do is actually quite a small part of your final job. When you become a consultant, it makes up normally they say about 20% of your time, which probably sounds horrifying to you. Um, and it did sort of slightly surprised me before I finished. Um, but it's something just bear in mind. So my typical week works out about having 1.5 operating this a week. Um, and so we do full day operating this because our cases can be quite long. Sometimes it's a bit silly, really tough half day list. So normally I'd have one list one week and then two lists another week every other week if you see what I mean. But then the other things that I do and you can see this quite a list of thumb are MG teas, So those are mainly lung cancer. Um, DT's. But most surgical specialties will have MG tees off sorts, so those are obviously with different specialties. So in terms of radiology, perhaps pathology risperidone three in our case. But obviously it would maybe be gastro insert of another GI I'm eating, for instance, nurse specialists, sometimes palliative care, depending on that. But in other words, that's a really opportunity to sort of work with people from different disciplines. And actually, I quite enjoyed that. Um, then I have sort of normally about 1.5 clinics a week again that works out on an every other week, sort of basis. And obviously you've got all the admin that goes with that. I am a governance leaders Well, for our department. And obviously that takes up quite a lot of time. But then you've also got all the other admin stuff, and there is so much paperwork. And I never appreciated that as a registrar on Bear is just a lot of paperwork on a lot of admin. And then you have your own call commitments and in our job. And it varies, of course, across specialties and across jobs. But I normally end up doing about one on call a week, which is obviously nonresident, and it's just 24 hours or we do 72 hours of the weekend. So I thought about a bit about my tips for embarking on a career in surgery, and I sort of feel I'm a bit less qualified, really, than Louis Onda Rebecca to talk about that because, frankly, I came to it really rather late. But if I had my time again and I had come to that decision a bit sooner, then I would have basically put it into these broad topics on that would be to plan ahead. And so, while start medical school, there are opportunities to plan ahead. There's ways off having taste decisions. There's also the opportunity as well, too, to plan for your elective and therefore planned for a surgical elective. If that's what you're interested in, there are lots of opportunities on search. Sock is obviously one of those opportunities, but a lot of the surgical specialties have student engagement programs. So certainly the S C TS, which is the society of cardiothoracic surgery, has a student engagement program. They run careers sort of events. They also run sort of some courses as well. Some of those allied to our conference and others of those or not, Um, but basically they're just trying to get people opportunities to be involved in the specialty. Um, then, as we said, exposure is really what it comes down to. So going with opportunities again, but sort of basically being exposed to as many different surgical specialties, you may have unidentified about what you want to do. But to be honest, that could be sometimes quite difficult to know. Um, well, maybe it was just me that found that difficult inexorably on, but it is something I think that it's worth particularly. You're interested in surgery trying to see quite a lot of different surgical specialties because they all have very different advantages and disadvantages, obviously those commonalities between them. But actually, for instance, if you end up being a sort of on Copaxone breast surgeon, perhaps you know your on call commitments or not going to be quite the same as if you are a cardiac surgeon and yet there still surgical specialties. So there's just a lot of different choice there, But somebody that can really help you with this and I'm so pleased it's been brought up before is the concept of mentorship so identifying somebody who you can have as a mentor on I did that fairly early on when I realized that actually, you know, is going to embark on cardiothoracic training. Um, and now I'm part of the women in cardiothoracic surgery mentorship program. That's from by R S. E. T s and I have medical students as some of my mentees. Um, Andi Again, I'm always in order of these people that are so dedicated so early on. But, you know, obviously there are opportunities. There are prizes. There are fellowships that they can apply for. And in fact, one of my men tease just one a fellowship and things to go abroad, which is fully funded, which was really exciting a Z. So I cannot stress how important mentorship is on. So, as it says on the bottom of slide, mentoring is to support and encourage people to manage their own learning in order that they may maximize their potential, develop their skills, improve the perform their performance and become the person they wanted to be on. So you may not entirely know sort of who you want to be, but it may be something quite vague that you want to be a surgeon. It may be that you want to be a consultant neurosurgeon specializing in school basterds arri or something, I don't know. But the fact is that if you identify somebody that can act as a mental, they can also give you a bit of direction and guidance they considered help You develop goals as to what you might need to achieve to help you get there They can help with. Sort of pointing you in the right direction for training. They can help motivate you, but also, they can just give you some advice on it. Doesn't necessarily have to be that they, you know, are in that very niche specialty that perhaps you've identified. But you know you can, because you can have more than one mentor and things. And that's something that perhaps people don't think have enough. And you can have different people for different things. Okay. I mean, for instance, you know, one of my men tease, you know, obviously I was put in touch with her for the because it was because I was a woman in cardio thoracic surgery. But ultimately, she would probably also benefit from having a congenital cardiac surgeon on things as her mentors. Well, um, and we can always give different things. So those these are the sort of qualities that you are looking for in somebody to be your mental. You want somebody who you feel comfortable that you can talk to on that you can really engage with and that they are, you know, engaged in the concept of being a mental. So I just wanted to ask the question, um, who is the most important person in the operating room? Does anybody want to answer that question? Anybody got a few hours or a child? I can see the patient. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm so pleased you said that I was very worried that somebody was Well, we have had people in the past say, sort of the surgeon on things, but, you know, the surgeons, just a member of the team. So it is the patient on what can be really difficult as a trainee is the fact that there are so many other things that are sort of going on on that you are there and you've got your training needs. And you know what? You want to get out of your, you know, opportunity in theater. But then you know you've got the time pressures. You know, you maybe had a sort of a knee. Statistically the training any statist on you know, they've taken ages to put the patient to sleep, and then everybody's going. Come on, quick, quick, quick quick, quick, Let's get on with the surgery, which always strikes me as a bit odd because people come to hospital for a non operation, not on an anesthetic. But you can't say that. Obviously, never say that. Don't ever repeat. That's okay, that's not appropriate. But, um, you know, then you sort of our away doing shifts. You've got your service provision. So the the rotor issues in terms of so Rebecca's on nights a moment, for instance. I've got a list tomorrow, so I suspect she's not in fifth with me tomorrow. Little so then you've always got the issues of the complexity of the procedure on do you know? Therefore, it may not be appropriate for that level of training, although I'm a firm believer of trying to get components of procedures because there's normally something that somebody conduce as part of a procedure. But I think the thing is to always bear in mind that the patient comes first. But there are These are the pressures going on in the background on Do you know, for instance, we often don't know whether somebody's got lung cancer or not, and so we will send off a nodule out of their lung. Um, on we will send it to the lab for a frozen section and they'll tell us, Is it, um is it a lung cancer or not? And if it is, we'll do what was called a lobectomy. So we'll take out that lobe of the lung. Now that's one of our major cases. That's one of our bench marks in terms of how many we have to do 250 before we finish our higher surgical training as well as other things. So it's really difficult is a trainee because obviously you're thrilled when it comes back for the patient in terms of not being cancer. But obviously, you know, it's you've always got to be mindful of. It's the patient and the patient outcome that matters. And so, yeah, that day you may not do a lumpectomy, but it's good news for the patient that they haven't got lung cancer and that it's something non cancerous instead. So I think that's the thing. Always, always come back to the patient on. So these are my tips for a think being a good training and, to be honest, just being a good junior doctor in whatever you end up doing, Andi even beyond. But, um, they're just very, very general themes. But it's, as I said, always having that patient centered approach and if in doubt, always referring back to good medical practice. Obviously, that is what we all have. The cornerstone of our practice on that is obviously on the GMC website on D. I think like when I qualified were given leaflets and things with it and stuff in a swell. But you probably they probably moved on a bit from that. Now, I suspect to suspect it's all sort of Elektronik, but I think having enthusiasm is hugely important as well. It really affects how the rest of the team feels a swell. Um, I did have a trainer once who said that, You know, people read the sinks or radiators and it was like be a radiate. It's sort of probably a more appropriate thing, but always think about professionalism. And obviously professionalism covers a huge number of factors. So that's like being honest, you know, obviously maintaining probity, maintaining confidentiality, being a good colleague, turning up on time, being reliable. But you know, being a good communicator and That's not just with the patient, although that is something you will be assessed on at some point in various points in your training. But being a good communicator with your colleagues and it comes back to having that really good working relationship, um, as well as being a good communicator with your boss when you're a trainee. But then just again wider with your colleagues and other other specialties and other disciplines on. People know if somebody is not a good communicator, obviously. But they also plays into being a good team player, and people know if somebody is not a good team player on, I will give you an example. We had a meeting with a trainee in difficulty, which was a very drawn out process, actually. And when we said, Oh, you know, do you use? We knew that there have been issues with getting home with the other trainees and things on gum. Little do you do you get on with your colleagues on dumb? They said. Well, I say I say good morning to them at the start of the shift on. Did was like Wow. Okay, um, you know, that's just normal T 02 people that you know it's got to be a bit more than that being very organized and ah, using effective time management on then that leads into being a complete a finisher. So if you're given a project to do be the person that takes that project and does it and then get something out of it, and that's beneficial for you. But it's also beneficial for the people that you're working with on the project as well. And it means that if you do that and say somebody is very productive with regard to research as well that then you'll get more things out of it and they will include you in future projects. On sometimes some of those won't be quite as arduous is some of the things that you've done in the past, but you'll still get your name on papers and presentations on. Although you won't be the first author, you'll be included in future work as well. So these are just some tips visit of time management. Um, on as you can see, it's literally about sort of, you know, being selective as well about what you choose to do so as as both Louis on Rebecca have said, finding somebody who is, you know, who really knows how they can support you with this, but who is well published, who knows what's available out there and who will actually enable you to take a project and actually get it published, rather than somebody who has pipe dreams off doing this project on down. You know, it's sort of getting something out of it. I think that's the thing is to find people who have got a proven track record with that, and some people are better than that than others on. That's fine. We all have different roles and things, but, you know, really honing in on those people on finding how you can get something out of it. But then there are other tips, obviously, which are important on those also help on. They also help to sort of make you think that also about a bit about work, life balance. Onda I you know, when I was asked to mention work, but since I did think to myself, I'm not really sure in the right person to do that because I joked with my husband how I'd be nice to talk about work like balance. And he was like, How on earth can you talk about that? Because we just have the most crazy existence, which we do. Um, we basically my husband's a consultant cardiac surgeon on. But we have two Children who I will be going up to say Goodnight tea, very scene. But they are six and four on gum, so we aren't in a constant state of juggling. But work life balance, as thankfully sort of Louis is really stressed, is incredibly important, and that will make you a much better doctor. It will make you a much better surgeon, a swell, and the things that obviously you have to think about are sort of light work, family fun or hobbies. I have to say that for me would be a massive sort of like spear, probably for two completely over balancing the thing that friends, but also your health as well as doctors were so bad that putting ourselves first and that's incredibly important. And again, it comes back to that concept off recognizing when things are difficult, recognizing things that you need to be talked about for your mental health, and it's not just physical health of the see that we're talking about. But having a really good network of friends and family who can support you on that really helps with resilience and resilience is so important. Okay, um, but literally also being able to have some down time being able to have some hobbies, some way that you can decompress, and that's going to be different for different people. Um, but just something that isn't related to surgery on sometimes this could be quite used for. It's easy to get this off the Internet. I think this changes as you are different stages in your career, but this is called a wheel of life exercise so that each of these domains you score sort of up to 10 basically. And I have to be honest, the earlier in my training I was probably way up on, like, profession on sort of, you know, that side of things and probably less on the sort of, you know, um, community, I suppose recreation, you know, on things like that. So I think you know, you you go through different phases on That's okay, but I think it's always good to be mindful of where you are on if you're this sort of wheal idea. And of course, you couldn't. You you know, different aspects are gonna be important to different people. But just seeing how skewed is overall, we'll give you an idea of whether you've got that sort of balance. So in conclusion, I would say that surgery and I'm deliberately not spoken specifically about cardiothoracic surgery cause I think you are having sessions about different surgical specialties, although obviously I'm more than happy to answer questions about that. But surgery in itself is demanding but incredibly rewarding A suppression on D. On the whole, I would highly, highly highly recommend it, then things. It's an incredibly privileged thing to be able to do. I mean patients. I think what's was very special for me is the fact that you get to build that report with a patient on. Then they trust you, and they trust you to cut into them with a knife. Well, they're either asleep largely with mine or actually sometimes even when you're there, awake, which really is a sort of a huge privilege to be able to do. But it is so important to remain balanced on the fact is that that balance is what's going to make you resilient because it is hard on, You know, there will be tough times and there'll be times when you down to yourself and they'll be times when you even think Is this the wrong right thing for me? But that building, that sort of support network and having that sort of awareness of the need for resilience is really, really important on, you know, you do need probably thick skin to do surgical training on. You know, people have got better. There is less bullying, I think, than there previously. Waas. I don't feel that I've been bullied. I don't feel that I've been discriminated against for being a woman. But nevertheless you are going to be given criticism. You're going to be given feedback on. Do you got to be able to take that on board, not take it personally so that you can actually learn and grow from it? Okay, so there is an element of needing toe have thick skin on. That's really all I was going to say. So it's just going to go for questions. Thank thank you very much, Miss Rogers, for that inside we'll talk into work like violence. We've got a few questions in the queue and eight, which I'll start. I think this first one was, um, mentioned when loses speaking. But it's How did he get into research? Did you contact researchers yourself or through another way? Ah, my mom's bit weights. There was been ongoing joke in my first two years. That was way too clean, cause any surgeon that would give us a lecture, whatever specialty, I'd be a been umpteen. Just walk up to the front of the LDL to be at the end of the lecture and say, My name's s are interested in in certain specialty here and then they don't go. No, I haven't any time or yeah, sure did that few times went to a few different theaters. And then there was one shot. Who? It was the abdominal pain lecture in the in the first year I went up, I said the exact same know she'll on. He said, Yeah, great went fitter, turns out, loves HPB. The pancreas is really true. He had some research going, and I spent that summer doing ah, research about it with him and then since then I've just done projects and stuff with him and the rest of the HPV and transporting that. I'm being a bit dogmatic, being a bit naive. Um, I've only started general surgery, which I feel I often see evening. I might have to reconsider. Thanks, Mister Rogers. That was a great talk, but I think get yet getting into surgery, Getting into research on again. Mister Rogers. Correct me If I'm wrong. I think no in mind if you email. The worst they can say is no. Um, if they say no, maybe they'll recommend someone else to talk to you. Um, but yet Q. We did Children's hospital there. They consult and sister as well where we were once. Lots of them are very keen to help us fries them aware so just email or torture lecturers torture. You know, some people have I had a vascular surgeon from my like personal tutor. Oh, I have a basket surgeon from person to treat medical, So just there are lots of different avenues. Okay. Uh, the next question is quite interesting. Question. Many doctors I have met said the international cardiology is slowly taken over cardiothoracic surgery. What is your opinion. So, um, I think that there was obviously a big fear about cardiac stents. Um, Andi, back in the day when I first applied for my training. And so there were a lot of these drug eluting stents, which was seen as being seen, is being a concern to cardiac surgeons. And once it the end of cardiac surgery and actually theory stenosis rates following that were found to not be that great. And so there are trials. I won't bore you with the names of thumb, but one of them is called Sin Tax on. Basically, that's being the big the big driver for cardiac surgery still being the way that people should be revascularized if they've got triple vessel disease. Essentially, that's the sort of go home sort of comment from that. The only thing I would say is that valves are getting better and better the interventional valves on So there is, you know, there is an element of that, but some of them still need a surgeon, and some surgeons are still Some surgeons are doing tabby fellowships, which is just a trans aortic valve implantation. But that's it's basically a percutaneously valve that could be put in the patient. So I think the thing is, I think the key with any of these things, and it's goes with vascular surgery as well, which has obviously become very interventional. But muscular surgeons have, you know, learned those skills themselves on. But there are cardiac surgeons who put these valves into patients on D. You know, I think that, um, you know, they're still going to try and sort of the evidence is still out at the moment. There will always be things that need to be done by surgeons. And I think they're just now a bit, you know, looking a bit more closely at sort of work force planning that there isn't going to be a massive explosion, probably in cardiac surgery. So there are quite a few people who have C C T. Two are waiting for cardiac jobs. Thoracic surgery. On the other hand, of course, we all both go through the same training, but ultimately we have to choose one or the other on. There is going to be an explosion in 36 surgery because of lung cancer screening on So, um, that's an expanding half of the specialty cardiac is probably not expanding, but you know, we'll still have work load. But there will be people there for that change from cardiac to thoracic. But, you know, they just seen the light. That's the way I see it say okay. And the next question is, I think I don't want to interplay with this, affect my chances or getting into surgery. I don't think so. I mean, I didn't take late, but I don't think I think that, you know, there are certain police is that indicating isn't very popular. So, you know, there are some medical schools. Most of the people in my year I was in London. They did into Kelated. But there are quite a few universities where it's actually the the minority that into place, and they still create surgeons again. I'm fire less qualified, but I feel I feel like and maybe we might talk a little bit by, like, literally just finishing circulating. I feel like it's less of a demand for the application. And Rebecca, you're probably better places. Were brothers on less demands, the application more just for your own personal gain enjoyment, it's it works and actually quite financially good, too Integral. Eight is a cheap degree. What? What is expensive in the, you know, immediate setting ends up being really cheap. Way to get a degree. Um, it's fun. Generally, it's a nice year, especially last year when it's cold it on. But like I said, it's left it for me. At least it was less for the actual degree. Um, and having to be S e more for the opportunities that came from it and the the Tradjenta it can potentially, uh, shoot. Yeah, I would agree. I mean, you know, at the end of the day, it's personal preference what you do, and you have to make the decision That's right for you. But then I I did something a bit out there, you know, competitive. Probably a little about the people on DA. Sometimes it did happen. Extra views. I remember when I went back after my collection and I said it to one of the ophthalmology guys and he said, Oh, do they give up the grease? The cooking now as well. I'm done. You know what comments? But then But then some people love it and actually in my application, because I don't know if it was just too difficult for the consultant surgeon who reviewed my score. But they actually gave me an additional point, because when they looked at it as an inflated degree, they could not see how it was an insulated degree. So they awarded me for a full be a honest, So I actually gone additional point on after a peeling. So, um, so I got four instead of three. Now, I appeals my sport because there was something else that they didn't award me point school. So my thing was actually checked again. Um, even though it was rechecked, they still gave me the additional point. So, you know, I think I am a bit biased, but I have to say it was probably the most enjoyable year I had it. University was actually not doing medicine from Linda. It was doing that degree on down. If anyone's worried about, you know, time or oh, it's an extra year, it honestly makes no difference at all. And I'm still like one of the youngest people as a nasty one that I've I've met. So, you know, if that's a factor, I'd really think that, but just have a look around. It's not all of what's available in front of you. There are lots of different ones, so yeah, I'm biased. But it's I think it's great until that on do this next. Questions for Doctor Paris, I believe, is the L T F. See something that is useful for surgery for people who might need two more work life balance. Um, I think that's a good question. I think I personally been have any experience of lesson, full time training and so I can't really give, you know, a very well informed answer. But less than full time training is something that is becoming more popular as people been, just want to spend their entire lives doing medicine are under surgery on it is something you can do. And it's the same application that it's just a bit of alteration afterwards and during. And it just means your training is a little bit longer because some people like to do a TB journal of some people just to 50% after our friends that have already gone down to the things like I already and sometimes after you have Children that something you might also want to consider it for a while, but it just depends on the individual. But yeah, I apologize. I don't have any first time experience. I can give a a better answer than that. I do have experience of less than full time training, but, um, I did it. I did it between having my Tito two Children. So I was full time. Then I had my first child on do. Then I went less than full time on. I only did that first. So too 67 months. And then I was off again on, um on. Then I went back there full time. Um, I think that less than full time is something that is becoming more popular. I think, though it's really important that you are in a unit that's engaged with the concept of less than full time, and I think that is going to get better and better with time. But I was the first person in the department had had a baby, so that was all a bit of a shock for everybody, and then it basically yeah, the concept of less than full time was Well, it just they haven't quite got used to it. I think that since then we have had somebody who was less than full time, and that has been better. Um, on day now, I would try and advocate for that as much as possible, but for me, it didn't work out. But that doesn't mean, you know, it does also extend your training. But again, seriously, When you end up being a consultant, you're not in a rush, if you see what I mean. So it's fine toe. Have that extended training to some extent. Thanks for that. The next question is for Doctor Paris. How did you decide on general surgery as a specialty? Any specialties to stay away from? Um so I don't know if you're familiar with that phrase. Like a diagnosis of exclusion. Essentially, I remember medical school being like coming across many different little mints and seventies and thinking on my goodness. I cannot imagine doing that. And I think the first time I really felt like, Oh, wow, this is what I I need to do like this. This is it. Like that is it? I went into theater in water or in third year, and I remember the surgeon said to me did on our surgeon also know, obviously not never done it before. And he told me and put the time and okay, this, you know, I was never done it before, but I could I closed one just It's in some particular of ah domino wall on our this remember feeling. So just buzzing, absolutely buzzing after. And I was like, Oh, goodness, this is exactly what I want to do. And then after that, I remember I wouldn't advocate for this either. I think I missed a few teaching sessions. I think I would really little bit north day. But, you know, I'd go about the theater, and it was just something I really, really enjoy it. And I think if you meet that right person in the right mental, that sort of looks after you and help you and guides it, it can really impact on what you want to do. So I know I've said it before, but Mr Mercer water if you come across a great guy, but yeah, you know, I have been a lot of time with him in third year and fourth year and then 50 years. Well mm. In the theater and learning and doing lots of bits. And, yeah, I just really likes dental surgery. I don't can't think of anything I've come across that I like more, and but it doesn't mean I wouldn't. They just I just think at the moment it's just what I I like the most. So I can't really I don't like orthopedics. I'm sorry to any orthopods. It's not for May, but, um, yeah, my favorites done surgery the moment. So that's why I'm sticking to That's what did you always little bit upset now when she said that we do see is a challenge to try and people. But so, yeah, um, he's got the teaching point. We clarify the talk by how much teaching needs to be completed in three weeks. That was for Doctor Paris, and, yeah, I'll leave this my last ones. I got to get my gym, but, um, for so there's a There's a big enthesis on teaching in the last application. Particularly, there's the number women are teaching your bone and also your training and teaching. So they want you to have, like, actual product training and teaching, not just to say, Oh, I've been teaching for 34 years, and I've been doing excellent that so this year just got the most points was awarded to someone that worked with medial. Does do design, lead and deliver a regional teaching program for more than three months and that you have evidence of formal feet back and they made a positive impact. So one of the things I did during my PT set was we organized a regional set of talk for specialty careers. On Do That went on over a period of months. We have lots of people, and we invited all of the hospitals and juniors in the east of England Diener E so that pounds is a regional. So we have feedback from 88 things like that to say that, you know, it was because it was missing from the curriculum on, But we had feedback from hundreds of people that attended, So that was one of the things we did, and that was even Miss Points book. Even doing things at medical school, you know, you can't each other medical students. That is part of the criteria. It just has to be that you keep track a little over a period of time with former feet up. That's one section. The other sectors. The training and teaching so moody points you can get for that is by having approach Marcus difficult medication, qualification or above. So but for you need you don't need a masters if you what the blood goes to because that is the most points. And, oh, I think the one on being that says something like 45 days of training and teacher. So that's like two courses. So the World College of Surgeons does, like train the trainers or teach teaches or something like that. Do you need to do two similar things like that and that will get you the most place? Yeah, if there's any more questions like these moments. But I do need today Thank you very much so much. No, Uh, just a file to you about this once before, Or Louis, I think, how exactly do we go about finding a mental? And can't we approach surgeons at our hospital placement doing again? Kind of like last time. I would just say if you're in 1st 2nd year email, email people that you see people entering if you're in hospital just just should be like, I think, just be nice and be eager on be Ms Rogers. Focus on it, which I thought is the biggest thing that I've learned be a finisher. People and consultants, especially from I've learned, get really annoyed, justifiably. So give you if you ask for a project, you get given a project you don't finish yet. And so that's why I kind of mean when I said, You know, don't take on too much, is that it's It's really important to look after her mental health to be resilient, but don't then still go hunting for stuff if you can't take it on. So if you're given a project, it's it's quite lucky thing to do in medical, so So really, get your teeth into it the into it, and produce a good piece of work you could present unpublished Um, and the quicker you do that, there's a caveat to it is sometimes and expect more. So I've been in situations where I don't get it done, and I do. You spend all night doing something? Can I email it for a morning you get Wow, so quit and then I get sent another thing. I'm not time for that now. And so I said, a false president. So there's really a balance. But be polite. Be nice. Communicate Well, um, and be interested in what you're looking at. People don't want the consultant. You're talking to you and ask me for research form. That's what they spend the day really interested in doing. And so they as far as I know they want, however, is researching it with them to be equally as interested in equally pressure about it. So research first, what you're looking to get involved in, maybe do some background reading about consulting you're talking to so you can ask about maybe a recent publication they've done that there's any further work they're doing, Um, and go prepared for the conversation because some might turn around again. Yeah, great. Sure. Here's an order that I've not finished finished off for me, that some might turn around and go. Excellent. What do you think about my page three of discussion published in The Lancet oncology by the bottom of that? So what happened to me? The second one. But it could happen on the way. So you bad for So people like on be engaged and get things done. Well, I'm sure they appreciate it on the final two questions for Ms Rogers. Very similar. But what made you interested in going into service? Part of the special piece on. But I think this that if you were an F one doctor, which specialty would depict to see you? They're, um I think it was the I think it was the sort of ability to really change the course of patients outcome. That really sort of changed my mind about surgery. Like I said before that, I was always a diehard physician. Um, because I well, I like to this I space the cerebral side of it on. Interestingly enough, I suppose I've ended up in the most medical surgical specialty. Um, we are actually expected to be able to read E C. Geez, unlike our orthopedic colleagues on D, you know, there is sort of quite a lot of medicine, quite a lot of respiratory physiology on Dwight. A lot of intensive care, actually, which is quite interesting. Um, so but I think it was the fact that, you know, with medicine, you know, your often sort of tinkering with medication doses and things don't happen quick. No, I think that's a lot of those connections. That dodgy food. If we get a question and come back to this one four, I would've ended up doing something like, Oh, I don't know, Interior design. This road isn't safe. Or are you cut off in the middle? I can. She's just going back to kind of got, except for being the next medical speciality. Yeah. Uh, if you could go from there, Okay. Um, so yeah, so it's a very medical surgical specialty. See? Still get that sort of, um, has been that stimulation. Um, but you still then get to make a difference to patients. Um, with regard to if I was an F one now, I'd like to say that I do the same. I did. I did briefly think about pediatric cardiac surgery. I still find that really interesting, but I think that work life balance wise, and now, being a parent myself, I would really find that very difficult. And I think home life wise, I do not know how we would make that work at all. Um, so I'd like to say that I'd stick with the same on I noticed that there is a question about, um, have you found being a surgeon and apparent how, how, if I found being a surgeon an apparent, Is it difficult balance time? Yes, it is difficult balance time, Um, but equally it's not impossible on. I think it's trying to find it's going to There are more and more women going into surgery on Do. Therefore, this is something that's gonna happen more and more on, but it's about finding role models. It's about, you know, people's attitudes, changing to less than full time, as well as to the fact that people, you know do have other commitments outside of work on D. Um, as I said, my husband's a surgeon, a swell which is challenging on, but therefore, you know, we are juggling the whole time, but it's not impossible, and it's trying to find those role models or all those mentors that considered understand that support on. But, you know, even if they haven't got experience of that, then you know they can put you in touch with somebody who can thank you very much. Thank you very much, Mister Rogers and Louis, for your talk today just before we wrap up. I just wanted to mention a few, uh, future events we've got coming. You know, uh, can everyone see that? Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so So we've got 33 great events coming up. Our first one is running tomorrow at six. PM This is an M staff switches our Midland's ah surgical anatomy teaching series on. It's the first session on up a limb and form an orthopedics to people from our committee. Camel and I should put huge amount of work into this so he couldn't turn up to that mixture. You do. Our next event after that is on Sunday, which is a basic surgical skill session on that will take place in person in the Mid Medical Clinical Skills Room at 9. 30 Onda, Finally, we have our second, eh? So you want to be a surgeon, talk on plastics, and that's the same time today. Next week. So you stay at, um six pm Finally, before you wrap up, please leave. If you haven't already, make sure that you are a member off searched off because for the future events, you'll need to be a social. Remember to on do the feedback colds and get yourself on. Be easier to QR codes. One for the get the form for the membership on one for the feedback for if they don't work. And, um, you can put the morning two weeks in a chat, so I'll leave this up here for a minute. But thank you, everyone for turning up hope you had a nice session on. Do make sure you turn up to our next events. Mister Rogers, Thank you so much for coming in. Student. It's been a pleasure to have you and your total was fantastic. Okay, thank you very much. And just a quick plug. If anybody is interested in just being exposed to throw six surgery were based in ambulatory care theaters one and two at the QE. So we're always happy to have people there if they want to. Come on watch and understand a bit about what we do here. Yeah. So everyone still here are certain skills things happening on Sunday morning. So we are first in person event. Um, we vote very hard to get up and running, so applications and things know applications sign up sheets and things will be going out. Um, it's up, um, Onda. We look forward to seeing you That it's very exciting to be back in person events. Sorry for my wife on everyone. Any questions or anything Tells a lot about the Avonex you could find. It will not instagram and face that contact. Um, email. All of our contact details are on their guys. There anything you wanna ask anything from this? Follow up first? That 1st. 1st of all, Yeah. I went in my first year and I'm salad and 1/5 year, so Yeah. Yeah. Come along. You were in your life. Joking. Said was fun. Uh, no. First year? Absolutely. In fact, we encourage preference. It's a great it's basic central skills. We have no expectation of prior knowledge of practice on, but it's a great thing to family. Gets difficult. So yeah, coming on. Absolutely. A ladies and stages. Welcome. Well, okay, writing. I've I've got a head off, and I'll come and meet you to have a even messing. Now, I might be having off in, like, a generic thing. I'll text. You want to thank you for speaking Lee. I'll be I'll be investment five minutes. I got to get everything through grind. Never stopped going to treat other cells that you recently I thought we went on it the way we think that there is. Well, door, you're doing better as well. Okay, you got this. All right. See, by the fact, Well done. That was fantastic. Iceland. Thank you. Really Well done. The back. Thanks. Okay, Okay. You can remember anything. Thank you all for joining in July, and I