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SFP Unlocked Session 4: Acing your white space questions

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The white space questions are an extremely important component in the SFP application. Join us this evening where we aim to go over the STAR framework, which is commonly used when approaching the white space questions. We will also discuss examples of good responses to the white space questions, so that applicants will have an idea of how to formulate their answers.

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OK. Where is loaded? Ok. Definitely live. Yes. OK. Right. Um So I can't see the chat but hello everybody. Could you um drop a message and yeah, if you could um hear and see us. Mhm Is, is everything, is it all working guys? No. Have people attended? Is there actually people here which is OK. You know what like yeah, this is live and we've got people and this is happening. So, all right, the presentation is happening. So um if you're happy Jack, then I think we could crack on maybe let's do it, let's just do it. Alright, lovely. Alright. So um welcome everyone. Thanks for taking time off your evening to join us. My name is Melanie and um today me and Jack would be hosting this talk um on White Space questions. So um what we're going to cover today would be um to talk about what, why space questions are the different types of White Space questions? How to get started writing them. And me and Jack had also like, you know, do a little um examples and with some examples from like the White Space questions that we submitted. And then at the end, we've got Gener Tis and if anyone's got any questions, we'll do a short Q and A at the end, but there's a chat function here. Um, I don't know how many of you had joined our previous talks on me all before, but, um, just feel free to pop your questions in the chat at any point. We've got someone, his name is June who will be monitoring the chat and he'll be answering questions there as well. All right. Right. So, um, before we begin, we'll just introduce ourselves. So we'll start with Jack if that's all right. Yeah. So I'm not going to read the whole thing. Um So I'm Jack, I'm a Cardiff graduate. Um, I'm a doctor now. Funny enough and I basically want to do academic neurosurgery. I've published quite a bit and I'm doing a research track up here in York, hum with a neurosurgery job attached to my S year. Um And that's pretty much me, Melanie. All right. So, um the other speaker would be me. So, um I actually got started into research quite late. So, um, I was part of a research project in med school only in fourth year and I met this really great supervisor who, um, really supported me and basically, she's inspired me to apply for the SFP and now I'm a research SFP in East Yorkshire. Um Yeah. So since then I've done like a bit, I've done projects, had some publications um but they're just here and there some presentations too, right? So um moving on with the talk. So um right, first topic of the day would be why are White Space Questions? So White Space Questions are essentially mini essays or personal statements that could form part of the criteria that deaneries use to assess you for um short listing and for the um short listing to interview and for ranking when you are getting your jobs. So there's a word limit to them. That's about like 200 words, but that could differ, differ depending on the deary and the White Space Questions for this year have all been released and I've popped a link over here in the slides. Um Yeah, if uh Jack or June could just like if you could uh put the link in the chat as well, that would be much appreciated. Um So important thing to note about the White Space questions is that not all deaneries use White Space questions. So for this year, um I know Yorkshire and Humber isn't using them even though they did last year and London isn't using them as well. And different deaneries could use different White Space questions. There's four of them and they could pick and choose whichever they want for assessment. And different deaneries also weigh them differently. So it'll be worth it just to research um to research up on those and to look at areas where it might be more beneficial for you to um apply for just by playing to your strengths. Um On the other slide, I've screenshot at some of the criterias about White Space question that different deaneries have. Um There's one really interesting criteria from East Midlands. So from East Midlands, they are using wide space questions, but they are using different White space questions for different tracks. So if you're applying for the research SFP, you're answering um two question, two particular questions. And if you are applying for the MA Ds FP track, then you'll be answering another two questions if that makes sense. So essentially what this means is that like you would be only applying to one track and they are also scoring it a little bit differently. Um As far as I'm aware, um if they are two candidates with the same score, they'll be using the White Space question score as a tiebreaker. So it's just something to keep in mind. Just do your research, make sure you know which questions they are using how they are scoring it just so that you are answering the correct question, you don't want to be wasting your time doing those questions in the and then in the end find out that it's not the correct question or they don't even look at we space questions this year. It's a lot of work and doing all that research, but it'll be worth it. And the White Space questions that we have this year, there's four of them and they basically have um different, four different areas that they're covering. The first one goes through career goals. The second one is program interest. The third is achievement, which is um again divided into research, education and leadership. And the fourth is teamwork, right? So, um moving on and uh to talk about how you would actually be getting down to write your white space questions. So before you begin writing down anything, I'll say when you're doing your application for SFP, it's always really good to just sit down and gather your portfolio. So a really handy ti would be to go on your email and just type certificate and look at everything that you've done. So if you've got like certificates or um any recommendations, just put them in a folder somewhere, so you could use those for your self assessment that could be your evidence. And while you're looking back at this, try to think back on other things that you've done as well, things that might not um necessarily be evi evidence for the self assessment, but then they still do count for the White Space questions. So the White Space question is great because I find that it's a good way for you to sell yourself. You could talk about projects that you have um done, but they are still in progress, stuff that maybe you haven't published yet or you're still waiting to hear back. So it's just an additional opportunity to sell yourself and let them know more about what's going on aside from the self assessment score sheet. So once you've got all your achievements and all your skills written down, I'll have a look at the white space questions and figure out which skill and achievement I like to map to each white space question. So it'll be good if you could um be having different skills and different questions just so that you show that you are a well rounded person and structure your answers. So um this isn't something that's a hard and fast rule. So there are a couple of um structures that you could use. Um Most people use C MD or Star personally. I love them both, but you don't necessarily have to follow this. You could use your own structure or there's something else called the sandwich method. Yeah, but I, I am a big fan of CA M and Star. So um am is great for answering questions on motivation and it goes to um stuff like clinical academic management and personal, personal is always the one that's a bit more. Um Whereas like if you're answering questions for SFP, you'll want to focus more on the academic and clinical component for anyone that's applying to um mad and leadership, then management would be the bit where you could um where you could expand more on. And the Star Mnemonic is just a great mnemonic to use wherever it doesn't have to be examples of situations you could use it anywhere honestly. Um So the Star mnemonic goes through the situation. Um What's the task that has to be done? What action did you take? And what's the result on that? So it's really good because um it encourages reflection and that's something that we do want to see in the white space questions. So um now we'll move on to some example and some answers that me and Jack gave during our application process. So first up, we've got career goals. So this was screenshot from the um UK FPO um PDF. So this is the exact question that they are using. So any beanies that's using this question, this is how it will be coming up as well. So let's just have a look at um what it says. So what are your specific reasons for applying for an SFP? Please highlight how the program will contribute to your career plans and briefly outline these? OK. So um to me, right, what it's actually asking is, what's your motivation for applying to an SFP? And um what this question essentially is asking is motivation and it wants to highlight how much you know about the SFP and what you're going to get out of it. So um to answer this question, I used the CM structure personally. So for clinical um you could talk about, oh why, why did I come to this place? Is there a particular patient group that I'm interested in. Is there a department that I'm interested in? Is there someone in particular that I want to be working? How's coming here going to benefit me as a clinician? Um On the academic side, you could talk about um some local, collaborate, collaborate, col collaborative groups that you could work with. Um And it'll be a good place to show knowledge of any projects and trials that's going on in the area as well. Um in terms of management, leadership and education goals. So we could talk about a committee applications, you could talk about um wanting to set up teaching sessions. Um And with all of these, right, it's also great to put in examples of stuff that you have done before and then just link it into how you will want to build upon them. Um in terms of the last bit of the C ATM Mnemonic, which would be personal. Um I'll use career aspirations here and I'll also use this as um the chance to demonstrate my knowledge of the integrated academic training pathway. I'm sure all of you have seen um that slide by now, but um I've just like put it on later on just so that we can have a look at that again. And you could also talk about some transferable skills that might be bringing you um from the SFP into your future career. So, yeah, this is just a slide about the integrated academic training pathway. Just try to refer, refer this whenever you are answering a question on career goals. Um The advice that I was given when I was writing my White Space question was to just say that like you want to for um a to be a AC F or a clinical lecturer, even if you don't know 100% yet because it just demonstrates that you are um aware of this pathway and that research is something that you could see yourself doing in the future. So um this is the example and this is chunked and checked from my um white space question. This was uh some of some of this was from my draft. Some of this was from like the actual question that I've submitted. Um I've tried putting my actual answer here but it was just a bit too wordy because um I personally struggled a bit with the word count. So I had to cut a lot of it out. And then in the end, this was a bit of what I've gotten. So in terms of the clinical, I spoke about how um the emphasis on what work and theater attachment because the place that I was tailoring these answers to um had this really great program where they had sometimes that you're on the ward and they have protected time for theater as well. And I thought like that would be like really useful. And that was what like I wanted to focus on in terms of um academic, I referred something that I did before and then I spoke about how I would like to develop this further using um perks and opportunities that the SFP would be able to provide me and management. I spoke about some experience that I've had teaching before and how I would like to build the condom and then eventually potentially end up as a clinical lecturer. And in terms of personal goal, I spoke a little about how um it's close to where I went to UNI So that is why um I was going to apply for this. And um next one would be program interest. So this is the question for program interest. It's um it's a little bit of an odd one because I remember while I was applying on oral, it's more of a um it's more kind of a checkbox. Yes, no type of thing where you go. How many dearies are you applying for? Which track are you applying for? So there is that and at the end, there's also a um please explain your rationale if um your deary requires that of you. So some deaneries don't need you to explain your rationale and there will be guidance about how to answer that. But if you're applying to two dearies and the other one didn't say anything about um how to answer that question. I would email them to ask for clarification or I would just write a quick blurb about that. Not, this isn't a popular question. I don't think I've not seen any um deaneries use this question before. So yeah, uh Moving on, it'll be up to, well, that is a great foundation to what I basically am gonna say again, but I'm going to say it in a slightly different way. So these are obviously the questions which are going to be this year research pretty bog standard. Please outline your previous research experience, experience in achievements. This is like last year, it hasn't really deviated from that. So if you're applying for research track, for the research aspect, you can use camp start like approach. But for me, I actually didn't follow either. I used my me being me, I use my own unique sort of way of doing it, which is similar to when you apply to medical school, more of a journey of your initial inspiration. Then why? So you know what sparks your initial inspiration into research, what you did, how you reflected on set research experience or project, what you gained from it and then talk to your future aspirations. And I did it as a chronological thing during medical school. And that's how I answer the question, which I'll show you later. Um And then education and teaching again, it's very quite bog standards. The only thing which is different is this whole simulation training thing which has sparked a bit of controversy. This year, I would say simulation training, take it with a pinch of salt. It can be lots of things in medical school are simulated. Your cannulas are simulated, your clinical skills are simulated when you take histories, it's with actors that's simulated. So it's not just vra i all that sort of stuff. Um You can literally simulate anything you want to take it with a pinch of salt and try and expand and reflect on any teaching session which you've seen or have contributed to and reflect on it. That's how I would answer it. So for this question, this would be more plausible to use the Campbell start approach. I wouldn't use my sort of approach where it's more of a chronological journey thing. I wouldn't do that. Leadership again is just basically you're stating exactly what you've done, build off one experience and then reflect on it. And as um Melanie said, it's all about clinical ship, all that stuff, er, medical educator PG cert, if they're offering it just state what you want to gain from it. So if you go to the next slide, I think I've given an example. Mhm. Oh, yes, that's me. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. OK. So this is, well, this was mine, which when I applied. Um And it's a bit long um because this was before I had to quickly cut some words. But basically the premise is, this is basically why I used. So this is how I answered the YSFPY research, the Why research experience, et cetera using the model I've chosen. And this whole journey thing I started off with an experience. So I was awarded a fully funded eight week studentship. This was back in my second year of medical school. So I started from the beginning. Then I said the skills I learned. So what research skills I actually have done, which is, it doesn't have to be clinical. It can actually bench work could be Biotest is actually just antibiotic, susceptibility testing. That's all, all it means. It's just a fancy way of saying it. And then I've said some quite important research skills. So from the experience I've reflected on the skills I've attained so critical appraisal and bench to bedside translational medicine. They are all those buzzwords which you might have used when applying to medical school initially, evidence based medicine. You know, these things are what underpins guidelines and research today. So, you know, stages research is tomorrow's practice. So if you know the understanding between the bench to bedside translational medicine, you can then adapt the skills you've learned from any research experience. Even just by critically appraising, I'll do a literature review. You've learned some skills. So I've used that experience then to my integrated masters, again, talking about the skills I've learned. Then I've moved on from that saying this ma stemmed into doing research projects which then made me choose or you know, um choose this discipline I'm interested in which would be neurosurgery for me. Then I said, what did I get from those things? So, research projects at the end of it, it's either going to be presentational publication. Hence why I stated what I got out of it. So that's the journey. And then I've reflected the opportunities I have been fortunate to obtain, have instilled my passion to apply for. And this question was for the Oxford when I applied to Oxford. And then I basically did some as kissing as you usually do. And then, um and then I then really handed it off with a specific project. Now, I do, I have had a couple of questions on here saying, well, how do you, you know, name drop or put a potential project? It's only vital or it's only really useful if you're applying to one Deanery, which doesn't have White Space questions such as London or Yorkshire and Humber this year and then another Dean which does so on Oriel, you'll on the, you'll only be able to put one white space question answer which will be given to both deaneries. But if one deanie is not accepting White Space questions, they're not gonna read it. Hence why, then you can be specific for the other deanie, which is what I was told and it worked cos I got interviews so that if you're doing that approach, basically London in something else or Yorkshire hum in something else, you can be cheeky and be specific for the other deanie, which mean, which actually bolsters your chances of the other one. So I contacted a supervisor who I knew I came up with a project with him and that was what my, you know, my thing was gonna be, obviously, I'm in Yorkshire home analysis a bit different, but I still do research with him. So at the end, I then as Melanie said, those clinical lectureship AC F phd, those are like the things which show that you have an appreciation of the academic clinical training program or the pathway. So all, all in all research, this is how I would do it. Do a chronological order, explain your journey. Your initial spark reflect, reflect, reflect what do you aim to get out of it at the end in your future aspirations? If you can, if you are applying strategically with one, which is not why space question the other, which is then you can do what I did. But if you're applying for two, which take the same white space question, don't do this because it will be a detriment. So just take it with a pinch of salt. So that's how I answered mine. And I got my top job in and humble for the White Space question, which was basically similar to this. So it does, you know, it does pay off at the end next slide. OK. So teamwork. So for Yorkshire and Humber, we had I think last year we had to do a teamwork paragraph or something. So, career if I remember correctly. Yeah, teamwork and career. Um And basically it was a teamwork thing. How do you work well in the team? How do you then, you know, how does that go spew into being a clinical academic? Um So if you go on to the next slide, this is basically a shortened down version of what I used. So again, I did this whole, you know, um stated and experience reflected on it, advantages, disadvantages within the team. And then, so it is more of a cast star sort of, you know, er approach. So I said what I was, I said what I did, I focused on one particular project and then, which was successful and then, which had an end outcome or results. And then I basically reflected all around that to the to the results. So one such project focused on blah, blah, blah, blah when I was an effective team member, an active team while group steer. In, in other words, I was a team member, but at the same time, I took a leadership position. So I'm I'm already showing that I've de delegated and acted within a team and then I said some problems we encountered of which then we solved and there's a reason and then I told said, what was the things which I did to resolve said issues? And I was very cheeky because I also said the skills which I had done on another extracurricular thing. So I killed two birds with one stone by basically saying these skills I got from something else which I haven't mentioned in our application. Now, they know I've done this in my application. Therefore, it's stronger, which is the HL a scholarship. And then again, it's reinforced that I presented published. And then what I've done is reflected on it saying that ambitious program testament to a teamwork and time management skills and then, which reflects on how you're gonna to balance your research block or your, you know, your academic program with foundation training. So it's ascertained that I am willing and ready and competent to do an SFP. So that's how I answered the teamwork one. I would highly recommend you do it that way as well. Reflect on one experience. You don't, it's not bullet point. I've done this that, that they don't care. It's more about reflection on what you've learned and what skills you've shown for. It. Just think like when you're applying to medical school, it's all that reflection skill reflects. Skill, reflect that is all it is. It's really just that. So if you can build up on that and write an effective paragraph, which is nicely written, then you're fine. So that is how I answered that. Um Next slide. Yeah. Do you want me to do this, Mae? Yeah, sure. Go on ahead. Sure. So just some general tips follow a structure. So star camp. Yeah, I used my own because I'm stubborn and I want to use my own. Um And what I would say is if you send it to people who have applied to your Deanie and to read those white space questions, everyone will have a different opinion. One person may say it's rubbish. One person may say it's wonderful. So take it with a pinch of so, but take the comments on board and then doctor accordingly don't list, as I said, they don't just don't list everything because there's no point. It's all about reflection. Pay attention to your wi count. Yes, you are gonna be cutting these paragraphs down to the last character. It is absolutely ridiculous. It's very much like you cast. So just keep, keep cutting until it's like perfect. But make it sound grammatically correct, please cos there's some jagged horrible paragraphs I read in the past just literally make it sound fluent. Have multiple drafts and start early. I, I mean, you should have already pretty much started now and getting down a couple of drafts by now, I'd say um just again, keep working on it, get feedback. As I said, allow a couple of days gap between rewrites. Yeah. The first time you rewrite something, you're gonna think it's absolutely awful. And then a couple of days later you'll be like, oh, it's wonderful. So just don't overreact on the first time you reason it. Save your final answer. Yeah. OK. So interview wise for my Oxford interview co you interview last year and then our interview this year Oxford asked about the project I had mentioned in my wife's questions. So refer back to it and then include knowledge of integrated academic training because they might ask you in the interview. So just show that you're aware. OK. Um Next slide. OK. So person specification, right? So this is from the UK FPO, isn't it? Yeah, this is just an additional thing. Fine. Yeah. So again, take the what the UK FPO says with pinch of salt because not every single person has to have every single attribute. Um You know, a lot of these are quite self explanatory really. It's just being a well rounded doctor at the end of the day. And in my books, I was always, I always followed this philosophy that a doctor encompasses three things. Um a triad of things. Number one, a scholar, number two, a scientist, number three being a clinician. So if you can integrate all three of those things, then you'd be absolutely fine as to do the SFP. So this is just a reiteration of what the attribute should be. Um And in interviews, yeah, they, they sort of go against these attributes, but at the same time, it's not make or break. You don't have to be every single one of these. It's just expected. What do you think they need. Oh Yeah. No. Um I feel like, you know, if you have sat down and you have done like, you know, all the skills that you want to um write out in your white space question, you would have more or less hit most of them. But I do think um this is helpful if you have not got an idea of where to start. So literally just sit down with this, open it up and go like, oh OK. So when have I like showed like an ability to prioritize tasks and how do I actually like, you know, make it sound like nice in my white space questions. It's just a good starting point. But if you've got like, you know, skills that you want to talk about, then definitely like, you know, um start with that and then just look back at this. It's a good referral point, but I won't be um sitting down and making sure that I've got like all of this in my white face questions if that makes sense. Yeah, I completely echo that. Um Is that last side? Um Yeah, that's the last slide. And um before we just end, just to um reiterate some things that Jack said, I do think it's really important to start early because um you actually need more time than you think to get your white space questions where you want them to be, especially if you're thinking about writing it and sending it off for feedback and waiting for other people to get back to you for feedback and then changing it up. And I personally, I think I did about 10 drops. I know people that's had like 22 drops and more and it's absolutely ridiculous because it is a creative process. So you'll come back to it a couple of days later and you look at what you have written and you go, oh my gosh, that was horrible. I don't know why I've written that and you are basically scraping it out and starting it again from scratch. So just leave yourself plenty of time. There's no need to stress out about white space questions because with just having a couple of drops, you could get them to where you want to be. So I won't worry too much. But yeah, just start early and have multiple drops. Try to sell yourself and yeah, I think that is all I've got to say. Do you have any other comments, Jack? No, I think just start early and oh, we've already had questions, anything and start early and well, I mean start now if you haven't um and get them in. So we're happy to take any questions. Um Yeah, this could be a little Q and A session. So just pop any questions that you guys have on there and it could be anything to be honest to just anything you want. OK. This one is make in reference the IAT for research. Sfps for education. Would it be more irrelevant to speak about g medical education instead of this or as bile? Right. So, um yeah, so for medical education, I'm not doing medical education but for people I know who've done it. Oh, doing it. Um If there's a PG Cert on offer, yeah, talk about the PG cert and then talk about aspirations. After said PG Cert. So some people said I want to pursue a mass in me, which is the end game for postgraduate. Some people say they want to like pick up clinical lectureships because that's still teaching anyway. So you can, you know, reinforce that and there's some fellowship jobs like there's clinical teaching fellow jobs, which is like your new F three jobs which are very, very popular. Um There's loads of aspects. So just have a look at what you know. Yeah. Yeah. Unfortunately, the IAT is very much focused for the research FSFP, which was why this post was previously called the academic SFP. But it has now been changed because they wanted to put more of a focus on for me and leadership. Um I would say that if you're applying for either of those two tracks, you'll probably have more room to play with. But I would um one thing I would do is to speak with other sfps that have done me before just to get an idea about what poses they are so that you could make reference to it and, um, it could be a good career path as well because I know that they are simulations fellow at the trust that I'm working with. So, yeah, you could say about, you could talk about wanting to do something like that as well. Mhm. Ok. So, ok. Do you want to go, Jack? Yeah, I, I don't mind. I can answer this one very quickly. Prizes from RSM or R England. Acceptable. Yes, there we go because it is a national body. So therefore any of the royal societies, any of the royal colleges, anything which is outside of your scope of me. Like student societies. Yes, student societies do not count for a lot of things. You can still put them in your white space, they'll put them down in your white white space. Questions and if you're still in doubt, just put it down on your prizes. I think you can put up to 10, isn't it? So, just, just put it down just in doubt. Put it down. Yeah, like honestly, like it's more of a, um, it depends on if you want to chance it or not because you don't get mark. I mean, you do get a mark down negatively but it's not going to affect, um, how it's not going to affect your chances. If that makes sense, they're going to send an email saying that, oh, this isn't, um, exactly appropriate. We're, um, docking a couple of points and then that's it. Um Oh, there was a previous question. Sorry. Um Do you guys have any advice for those applying specifically to leadership SFP? But have less research method related thing on their portfolio? Um Well, if you're applying to the leadership SFP, then I don't think you need to focus too much on the research or me related thing. You would um probably be better off having a portfolio that's more tailored towards leadership. Um stuff like being part of society, organizing, organizing big events, maybe even entrepreneurship. I think Yorkshire is doing this new SFP where it's an entrepreneurship. SFP. So we've got previous experience in setting up business and all that could prove very helpful could also make you stand out from the crowd. Mhm Yeah. To echo, that is exactly the same. Um I knew a couple of people who went for leadership in like Wessex for example. And it was purely the experience you've done it like uni societies, business entrepreneurship, lots of people now do the HL a scholarship if you don't know what healthcare leadership academy is. Have a look at that because it's basically a program which gets you like um to become effective future clinical leaders. So I've done it and it, it's a good program. So definitely check that out as well. There's loads of leadership now is becoming a very popular thing. So just have a look. Oh, sorry, I got I do it every session linkedin. If you do not have a linkedin, please get a linkedin because linkedin is the best thing, which is kind of, it's better than your med Twitter. It's better than your med Facebook and Insta it is amazing. That's how I got most of my publications. That's how I got to know. I think that's how jun actually messaged me first was through linkedin. So that's how I got involved with all this stuff. So please linkedin Network is the best thing possible. Melanie. Do you have a linkedin? Um I do but it's a very much not, it's not nice. Like it's literally got the bare amount of information on it and I just use it to, yeah, see what my friends are doing professionally. Some people, sometimes it's a toxic environment. Some people like stalk what other people have done. But trust me, it's amazing, like really endorse it. It's your online CV. Nowadays. Um Research Gate is another good one. Like um I don't have a Research Gate account, but um for those who's got like loads of publication, it will be very much worth it. If you've got one again, it's all about networking, a lot of these opportunities you're not presented with during your medical school. And believe you mean, unless you're part of that community or you know, that exclusive club or committee, it's actually quite difficult to publish. So just get involved. Um And if you got like a good supervisor, honestly like stick with them because good supervisors are really hard to find the amount of times um that I've got to chase people up for stuff was just, yeah, tell me about it. Honestly. Um Melanie, I think this one's for you um about the taking off points thing. All right. Um So this would uh they do take off points but it doesn't like, it doesn't knock you out of running if that makes sense. So say you've um submitted something that's at a national level, which was worth five points. But the evidence that you gave was um actually for a local training and that was worth four points. So they'll give you, they'll send you an email saying that, oh we don't think it's like a national A K A worth five points. We think it's local A K A worth four point and that would change your score. But um it doesn't take you out of the running. So you would just be having a new score going forward for short listing and any um actual ranking at the end. Does that make sense? Yeah. So basically if you put in evidence, which doesn't, which you said is national, but it's not, you're not going to get those points which you thought you were going to get. So therefore you're gonna Yeah. Yeah, but it's still um I mean, if you're not sure if that you've got something that toes the line, I would still put it in anyway. Um Yeah, but obviously like, don't try to claim things that are obviously um not what they are. Yeah. Just, just be very clear what it is. So don't say it's an international thing when it's only a local thing. Just one. Yeah. Um So how could we access recordings? Um So it's on me all. So you could record, um it's been recorded. So, um after this session just go on med all and search up our name. It should be there. Ok. Anything else before we end? No? Ok. I think that's it, Melanie. Ok. That's John, don't worry. Ok. Right. Closing remarks. Jack. Yeah. So just if you haven't done any white space questions do it now. Mhm. Oh, and um you guys could reach out to us as well if you want like someone to look for feedback and all that. Um I don't know if we've got like our emails address anywhere but uh this is mine if you guys want to. Yeah, I've, I've put my linkedin and Insta Yeah, this, this is just my email if anyone wants to. Um Yeah, so happy. Right thing guys, I think we're done. All right. Did we just