Computer generated transcript

Warning!
The following transcript was generated automatically from the content and has not been checked or corrected manually.

talk through some of the mediators and stuff, and I was just wondering whether because I if, say, I chose this topic. I obviously have a better knowledge of it or whether I could just use it again in I see a two is I see a to Just to clarify is I see a two when it's like a you need to kind of think of like some drug or something that's, like, novel. Yeah, yeah, you can create one or use one which is, um, out there and you got to basically sell it as the best thing. Yeah, that's fine. That's fine as long as it as long as it meets the criteria. I think one or two people did that. I'm not sure I remember someone used it as a bit of a springboard negatively. Or is it? No, it's not the key things I know it's about. I see one, but the key things I see two or one if you make any diet like you need to make the diagrams rather than just like lift them from a paper and two, as you were saying, it needs to be something like original or it needs to be something that hasn't been, like, fully fully fully tested yet. So, um uh, yeah, there'll be a whole session on that later on. Yeah, it's more just that's what you need to focus on. Okay. Um, I wouldn't worry about it too much. Are you guys, um kind of what? What was What was the big thing we were confused about with all this, David, it was mainly how can I say one? I don't really remember anything particular, but yeah, is Emma was asking, like, definitely I actually feel like choosing the right paper of the two, like the one you kind of more comfortable with is like, the most important thing for this. I see a, um even if let's say everyone else is doing one thing. If you genuinely think you've chosen the one you prefer to stick with that one, rather than going for, like, you know, the easier options just go for whatever is, like better for you. Um, I don't really remember if there was any particular query about this. Is there a specific structure that we have to to write it? Or was the med a general one They gave good enough. Uh, it was like, um, I think it was like, introduction paragraph where you just identify what the article is the rationale. And you start with dear editor and that kind of stuff and then, um and then two or three paragraphs, which are, like, each limitation and then the conclusion Exactly that I think the answer or something. So that works. But have you have you been told in for us? They said, write a letter to the editor in the style of I think it was the American Respiratory Society or something. Yeah, we were told to write in a particular style of, uh have they told you that or No, I think it was like the official task was that from what they say, um, let in the format of a relevant journal example The Lancet commentary style is that from the medicine or from from rest like, that's from our the guidance they gave? Oh, that's fine. Then you a specific journal, then? Then you can do it in both. Um, I we were told a specific journal. I can't remember exactly which one. It was like a r t s, um, American Journal of respiratory and critical care medicine? I think so. We were told specifically in that style. But you can do this with the Lantus as well. I just went on to I just went and found a copy of the paper and, like, found alleged the editor or a couple and saw how they had written it and basically just copied their entire structure. Yeah, so but you can do it in the general method one like this, that's a fairly minor point. They care more about the content. Um, but yeah, if you're struggling to, like, if you're struggling to come up with anything, maybe like closely following the journal structure would help, like, engage things, okay? Yeah, I think personally, I just did. The first paragraph I did wasn't very long. Paragraph first one I did was like a kind of general summary of the topic. So I did mine on COPD. So it wasn't just like to see you know what COPD you do, etcetera, etcetera. Then the second paragraph, which is the big one, a bigger one was like a summary of the paper. Um then I gave some positives about the paper and then I discussed the negatives, and then the final paragraph is just like a kind of overall conclusion. Um, but yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure that's basically what they told you. Anyway, Um, also, is there anywhere that examples of previous years could be found? Uh, just a question and chat. Yes, that's right. That's the drive. That really helps us. I was just gonna ask you if he could get it, but he's got it already. Yeah. So can you post that in your, like, what's that group So everyone can get it? Mm. Is, um yeah, we we we used that. Like, I wouldn't say to particularly, like, rely on anyone piece of work in there too much because, like, uh, it was a couple years ago, so just, like, just, like merge a bunch of them together and yeah, I think at least personally, how I used it was more just I'm sure jay was the same if you just read them and get a rough idea of what they do well and some of them even have, like, comments for them. So if you actually read the kind of comment feedback on it, then it's just like a thing you can avoid doing. If they did something bad, I mean, yeah, generally, they're just They're useful as, like, kind of rule of thumb kind of thing. And for understanding the brief a bit more because I agree. Sometimes they're not clear. Definitely. Um, any more questions or rest? General life. Oh, yeah. Well, even even while he's turned his camera off, it's okay. Least he had it on for a bit. Um, yeah, this this I see a is quite straightforward. I think it's quite nice they do give you a choice of paper. Um, just if you were stuck with something you didn't really jail Well, with, at least there's an alternative. Yeah, we really try to understand what the paper is. It sound? It may sound stupid to you guys, but like, the coated paper literally made no sense to anyone like, Yeah, I didn't want to do the coated paper at all because we have, like, three options. We had asthma, covert and COPD. Um, like one of them. I just did not understand at all. I think that was the coated one. Um, but yeah, I think as as, um um I was saying before I genuinely, genuinely, I really would recommend, like the best thing to do is just read both papers really, really, really thoroughly. Make comments, you know, relevant things on each. That's what I did, like I just printed it out and then just annotated it as I went along. Um, so I think, understanding the paper, as J. Said, and then knowing which one you actually want to do with the two. Once you've decided that it's quite straightforward also, um, like I don't check all the references. But if they're like particularly reliant on some piece of evidence, they keep mentioning, make sure it actually says what they say. It's a because I think I had this in mind. I'm trying to scan for it now, but I think in my one the the paper was like using this one source to like tha, like justify their point. But the sources on a completely different population, um so they were extrapolating rather than just, like rely like they were passing it off as the same when in fact it was an extrapolation of a different population. So, like this is like that's if you're struggling for ideas like I was, um you can always just check these horses and make sure they actually they're not being dodgy with it. Did it take you to finished the I see a How long would you recommend us to actually? Do you want to see each other, like, three. AM? Yeah, I remember. Like, basically, I think, personally, I just did it in, like, the week I just started the week before. Um, like, I've already read the paper. I just started the week before, and then just I think I just did it in, like, a few hours each night. And then, like, submitted it so it didn't take it. Didn't take ages. Yeah, It took me two nights, like like, but that's yeah. So I I spent 1.5 night writing it. I've already read the paper before, and I've been I read the papers when they came out, and I've been thinking about it for a while. I'm thinking Oh, I should I should really do that. Um, and then I spent, like, 1.5. Now it's writing it and then had a nap and then, like, checked my work and then submitted it okay? Yeah, I think. I mean, do you have the papers now? Yeah, we do. I think, personally, the best thing to do now is just read the both. Read both of the papers. Unless you've done it already. Decide exactly what you want. You know which one you want to do and then just just make a bit of a plan in terms of, Like what? Some positives about it. What? Some criticisms and then your overall judgment. Not nothing like proper pros. And you don't need references immediately for it. But as long as you just do that, I feel that take, like, one night, maybe maps. Then That's just like a really good foundation. Because at least you have something you find. Find a find a review. Go ahead and search like the rough topic. Click like reviews only. Find a review on the topic and mine it for references like just use all that for your references. That way it will save you. So you don't reference the review, though you can review your papers but reference you use that for your references and then go hunting when you need extra ones. Because like the amount of time, it will take you to try and find a reference for the European respiratory societies. Definition of asthma when you could just get it straight from the review is like, Yeah, that's a very good tip. I forgot that you'll do that a lot like for pretty much every single I see. A. You'll find the easiest way to find a reference, sometimes just to find a review and find the reference from a sentence in that review, Um, and then, uh, the other thing was, in fourth year, you just sort of need to get I was bad at this. Hence I did it over night, but you still have to get used to working a little bit every day, which, uh, medics, we're not didn't used to have to do a lot of our thing is do nothing for the first and most of the second term and then just ramp up into revision for exams. It's not like that to work constantly. Uh, the question is, do you for us to 15, but we were told it was max 15. Have you actually been told in the proper like, have you been told by say, Duncan or Louise or Plank. How much like what the maximum is? Because for us, it's 15. But it may be different for you guys. I don't think we're actually told how many. Like, I don't think we've got much of it. Okay, then the answer is email plank, Duncan and Louise, like, six in the morning. You just email or three because they're usually not too bothered about how many references. It's just like they'll tell you a maximum. For this. You won't need more than 15 anyway. But if they say give you a maximum of 20 maybe just came for, like, a bit below 20 or 20 or something like their maximum will be reasonable, but they wouldn't say like maps to so sorry. I was going to ask. Like, what are we actually supposed to reference in this? So the references come from your the stuff you're adding like the Okay, that's a bad example. Your first paragraph is setting the scene, right? So, um uh, David was talking about, like, what COPD is I was talking more about, like, the burden asthma causes, Right? So I'd like a couple of reference like 11 or two references about, like, how many million people, how many millions of people effects and also like, how much it costs the NHS. Um, and then after that, it's like you need to reference the paper. Obviously, um, to a certain extent. And then also when you say they've got this wrong, because it is actually this you need the reference for what is what you're saying is actually a fact if you get me okay, that's not clear. Yeah. Yeah. Personally, I had we had 15 references. I spent four of them just setting the scene like the first paragraph just to explain, like, just to give evidence for what I'm talking about setting the scene, then one to, like, even reference the paper. And then 10 were just, you know, say they have something wrong in their paper use a reference to explain why they were wrong. Um, but I think, as j. Was saying before, which is very, very good advice is just struggling to find particular papers. Just find a review and then reference the primary sources of those papers. Don't reference the review, though. The other thing, if you want a few minor points to stick on the end like you run out of limitations. Remember to check that in their study. In their discussion, they will have named a few limitations themselves, so you can always use those like but like remember, the the markers will have read the studies. They will know what the authors have already said as their own limitations, so you need to come up with one or two of your own. But you can use the limitations in the actual study as well. Carry on. My study actually didn't even have any limitations in this study, so therefore, I used it as a limitation that they didn't properly limit. You know, they didn't actually give any self criticism. So if they don't have anything, you can just use that as a limitation because they really should be critiquing their own work. What do you mean by setting the scene? Do we need to like in the beginning of like the first paragraph it's seen is one paragraph just to say that what the topic is. So, for example, my letter to the answer was about paper, which is cigarette smoke directly promotes pulmonary arterial remodeling under the channel dysfunction So it was basically just sort of talking about COPD in a couple of lines and then just saying sort of the importance of the channel. And then it's just, you know, have a cigarette. It's basically just what you can basically take assessing the scene from natural paper itself because the paper should seen themselves. So it's really just a really brief summary. I think this was, like maybe 15 20 words, Um, just summarizing the actual topic. So if you're doing the COPD paper, talk a little bit about COPD. If you're doing the asthma paper talking a little bit about asthma. So my asthma and it was just under 100 words, and I was just it was just Asthma continues to be a major burden on health like X X number of people because the X number of deaths and I said there's a financial burden and it just spends about a billion a year. Um, and then I said in the UK more specifically, there's X number of people with severe asthma, which is what my paper was talking about. Um, and it shows that so my paper was responsiveness to cortical steroids and how it affects lung function in severe asthma. And so you just say so. I was just saying 200 people, 200,000 people suffer in the UK um, and lung function, um correlates with the rate of decline of FEC being greater than FTB one for for reasons that are not entirely known, like that's all. It's just saying it's saying like, this disease is very important. You should publish my letters to the editor. And this is how the paper that I'm talking about related to the disease. Yeah. And also the Dr J. Gave as well would have some example necessarily editors as well. So you can just see those as well. But yeah, like the things to look out for in the paper are models, stats and, like just the logic, not making sense like saying that paper said, Like saying the results were one thing when in fact, they weren't. You said that we should reference, uh, the original paper that we're writing about. But would we have to keep referencing it again and again throughout our whole, um, letters to the editor? Or do we just reference it once at the start? I'm just going to look at my one. I think I just referenced it once. Okay? I think I think I referenced it like once in every paragraph. That's actually something more to ask. Parent Louise and Duncan. Yeah, I think that clarity from them personally, I only ever referenced it once in the whole thing. And I didn't get any negative comments about how many times and I refused every sentence and didn't get any negative comments. Yeah. Okay. Okay. This is a reference. I think that's fine. Okay. Yeah. Any more questions at all? Anyway, I hope you're enjoying the rest is very good. When we did it, and Duncan and Louise were very, very, very lovely. I missed so much. No. Same. Honestly, we don't get drunk anymore. Um, once I'd do the ICS again. No, I wouldn't. I don't know if I do them again, but, um, yeah, I I do. Miss Duncan. When is your thing do? By the way, do you know when uh, I see a one is do just in case you guys have any questions? Then we just know how much time you've got. 31st. Okay. Okay. Yeah. You got two weeks today, I would say first week, definitely read both papers. Know which paper you're going to do? Um, I'd say do that sometime this week, maybe before the weekend. Or just do it on the weekend, but definitely spend the first week just looking at both papers, properly choosing the one you're happy with. Potentially just seeing, You know, if I have a letter to the editor already like Jay was mentioning before because let's say one has less to the editor already, but the other one doesn't. It may be useful to go to the one that does just because there's something out there already, obviously go for whichever one you're happy with. But also look at the letters to the editor like a genetic one in The Lancet. I mean, try and find one at rest, but, like, just see how they structure it and what they say, how they open how they close like stuff like that. Um, and then so the first week just definitely read it. Maybe start writing a bit. Second week is when you do most of the writing and honestly, like it's only 1000 words. It will take you back to to sit down if you really want to. Um, one thing I don't think anyone arrested this last year, but I know someone in Endo who, on the like, two nights or three nights before the submission, they decided to do a different paper instead. Just don't do that to yourself. Just pick one and stick with it. They both they both have enough to say about them, like, you know, ultimately, they have chosen to decent papers like they must be decent. Um, if they've only chosen to because we had three papers, two of which were good one was really awful. Um, but yeah. So, as we were saying, just read it this week, maybe write a bit and then just do most of the work next week, because what's nice? Those You do have the weekend before the final submission. Obviously. Don't just rely on that. Yeah, you're welcome to go there. If you've got no more questions like, if you always have questions, you can just email us. It's really not. It doesn't have to be about a one as well. Yeah, it could be about Yeah, no problem. Have a lovely day. Good luck with your I see a thank you. Thank you. Have a lovely day. Uh, this one. I thought I was very comprehensive. I think it's a good idea for you to bring the link. That bank. Yeah. Mhm. Do you know anyone who arrest this year? No. No, I don't at all. I don't know any anyone. Do you know anyone? Yeah, a couple of people. Oh, that's nice. That's nice. Um, anyway, I hope you enjoy the rest of your evening. Are you actually going into path tomorrow or you're just watching it from her? I will wake up and see, but I'm going to try and go in because I know myself, and I just don't work when I'm home. Know fully like when we did the ppd, I genuinely couldn't work at all like I can't. I don't know. I just I think I'm when I'm actually in personal, actually focus a bit more, but if I'm not in personal, just look at my phone. Yeah. I mean, I don't focus when I'm in person either, but, uh, at least at least I semi absorb things, you know? Yeah, I know, I know. I know what you mean. I know. Also, I think it's quite nice and person really like, But you don't see all these people like all the time. Yes, I do love lectures a little bit because you get to go. It's chat people, you know, groups say, which is really, really nice. Looking forward to seeing you guys seeing all of you guys graduation as well. Yeah, no saying so. I feel like that's going to be like the one time when you see everyone, because obviously there are some people that just don't go in at all or anything. But we'll, uh, like we're in different. Uh, I think we should go. Thank you so much for coming. It's been wonderful to have you both. Um, just remind me if you don't receive your certificate, you should do. I didn't get the email to come in. I just stole the link of David. No worries. I had to. Basically, I had Luckily for me, I had lots of rest sign ups because it was you, David. And so I had to fit in people where possible. But it's great that you came giant and what I'll do is I will stick your I will just stick your name on the speaker list and send you a certificate to get a certificate for today. Thank you so much for coming. And I'll see you guys. Thank you very much. When is the next one good question? The next one is on the second of November 7 PM but you should be receiving an email very soon. I'm just swamped with my own. I say stuff. So what? D'you surge. Crying already. Thank you for organizing this. It seems like everyone found it really, really, really useful. Have a lovely evening, both of you. And I'll see you. Have a good evening. Bye bye.