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um, if that's okay and that that's our final speaker. So we've taken you right the way through the pathway from the sfp. And we're finishing now. Um, at professorship. I'd like to, uh, introduce Professor ashen muscle. He be who is a professor at U C L and Royal Free Hospital in plastic surgery with a very significant body of work to advance the field. So we're very grateful to have you with us handing over to you now. Thank you. Thank you. Uh, you can hear me, Alix. Yes, we can hear you, and we can see you. Thank you very much. Prof. I think you need to share your slides, though. Oh, great. Thank you. Got it. Great. So thank you for you invite. And I'm sorry that you're keeping you longer, but hopefully, uh, some of the things I said, maybe of some use to you, Uh, my remit, uh, was research as a consultant and professorship. So I guess to come slightly different because you don't have to be, uh, consultant to do research or or to be a professor to be a consultant. In a way, uh, so, uh, a little bit about me I also graduated. Uh, from, uh, um, D s. That's that's called kings. Now I had my PhD from U C. L and the M B A from Warwick Business School. And then I went on to a London rotation and fellowships, uh, most places around the world, but mostly in New York, in the cancer center, followed by Belgium and India. Then, um, I started to draw a fear as a consultant and at UCL ladder of, uh, academic promotions and, uh, became a professor eventually, Uh, during that time, I was also a presidente of raw society of medicine, the plastic surgery section, uh, council member of our association, which is called baps. Uh, and, uh, for my sins, I recently started the, uh, Masters in aesthetic at UCL. Uh, I'm lucky enough that we have the largest number of plastics academic fellows, uh, a CF and ACL and Alex being one of them. So, um, how about when what? What changes going to become a consultant? Uh, you get older. Unfortunately, uh, you may have a family, uh, that with that comes financial responsibilities. You may want to have some private practice. Uh uh, for for that little commitments, exponential increases. Believe it or not, you'll have juniors, which you have to help and train. Uh, you know, the list carries on and you're going to have a dog. Probably. So it goes on and on and on. So you just the life becomes hectic and more difficult and more intense. Um, so from a research point of view, you can you can think about it. It's obvious. Speakers alluded to this, but basic research or clinical research, I think both of them are important and are are interrelated. Um, but certainly I think a combination is always good. But as doctors, as practitioners, um, I believe we should have more, uh, applied science and applications in mind even if you do basic research. So how about how about it? How about basic research? Uh, when I was doing my PhD, and I did it full time, uh, all the scientists around me called me and, uh, amateur scientists because basically, you need a lot of time to do this, and, uh and, uh, you won't have time. Really? If you are going to do some clinical practice to be a, as they call it, the proper scientist. But it doesn't mean that you can't do good science. You can still do good science, but it's a devotion to the basics as as pure basic science. Uh, it's harder to do if you're having a clinical aspect to your work. So essentially, uh, we're talking about also a clinical research, and I think some of your people alluded to that, um, randomized clinical trials, double blind placebo controlled is the gold standard for this, uh, clinical trials and have different phases Phase one, phase two and three and four and again, depending starting from basic science and basic, uh, knowledge going into the exploratory, confirmatory and post marketing era. And that is how clinical research has been working in the past or has been still working, although there are changes in it. Uh, rather than being a more linear is changing. In many ways, I'm not gonna go too too much details of this, but that's a That's a standard way of doing this. Of course, all these need funding. Funding funding is key. Uh, one of the key points in continue to do your research or you in, I guess starting your research or certainly without it. Uh, you're kind of you're kind of stuck. Really. Um so there are a number of different pathways that funding the traditional ways are big grant bodies. Uh, medical research Council's, uh, NIH are and welcome those that are sort of the three top research traditional funders and soft funding is also really important. I think industry charities are really key in in a kind of a helping you to continue your work or starting your work. So, on the academic side, uh, surgery has also, Unfortunately, it always has a low profile, first of all, because we can't really do our work. Uh uh, it's it's always seemed to be low priority. Uh, if even if you get cancer, work is it's it's lower than many kind of other medical specialties, and quite often it's difficult to get I p in it. So even industry finding it difficult to fund you for it. But that's not always true, of course. So how about professorship? Um, promotion as a standard promotion spill that most universities have promotion to full professorship requires continued productivity in the areas of teaching research and service, so that all those elements have to be there if you just do one. Um, depending on universities, you might be able to do that. But it has to be really high level has been recognized by national and international internationally as a leading teacher and scholar. So, for example, for me, for u c l. I needed to have a five professors from internationally to give me references, uh, to to, uh, to even be accepted to for my even my application to be accepted. So I think you you need to, uh, do that have an international presence. Uh, some of, uh, previous speakers that go to the meetings have papers, have collaborations, so you can build up to that If that's what you wish to have again, that's not all. All the end or you don't have to become a professor. So what does that really mean when you become that, uh, so you always need a team? Uh, without it, you can't do anything. Even if your best person in the world, uh, your university has to be supportive if you're going to do lab work, uh, should have that, uh, as a supportive, uh, technicians. You need all kinds of things team around you. And you need really good fellows and in in in our department and in our specialty. In fact, we have amazing students, and and, uh, and, uh, candidates. So, uh, that that has become really easy to form that amazing team around there and myself and, uh, around our department. So how do you do all this? Uh, it is a real drug ning act. You really have to be motivated to do that. Uh, you got to be interested in it. You know, once, uh, you don't need to do it. You will have a job. You have a career, you'll have a income. You have a family. So why should you do it? You do it because you're interested because you you want to progress. Because for me, I enjoy. See my fellows get better and better, and and nearly all of them are better than me in what they do, which is the real joy to see. And, uh and you need to be well supported by them and by your family so that long hours giving lectures at this time of the day, kind of things and and then the other life balance is hard to to keep it, but I think you should have a little bit of a, uh, an idea of how you can do that by having some hobbies and trying to have some relaxation time as well. So I'm going to keep it short, because I I knew it was gonna be the the end discussion. So I'm gonna stop here, and, uh, if there's any questions, you can certainly ask. And if you want to email me as well, I'm happy to answer them as well. Offline. Amazing. Thank you very much. Prof. Um, so we'll now open up the floor to, um any questions that you have specifically for For profit for any other speakers. Um, And just while we're waiting for those to come through, we can route back to the earlier questions, which I think we're in the in the chat box and we didn't speak about. So what kind of candidate do they look for in terms of an A C F candidate? Um, well, I I think that I think that might be able to answer this as well, but in terms of what they what they advertise. Basically an a C f is either for entry at ST one or s t three. So you're at the start of your specialist training. You need to be able to demonstrate an an aptitude for a acquiring your surgical skills as well as early experience, uh, in research and supporting your team and potential to develop and go forward into into a PhD. But hee do publish a specific sort of check list of criteria that they're looking for in terms of desirable, uh, aspects. Do you have anything that you want to add to that? Yeah. I mean, I agree with you. And I think, uh, a track record of, uh, done some academic work. If you're academic. Foundation, of course, is helpful. And, uh, publications, etcetera and against it depends on competitivity, ease. And for example, when you were appointed, Alex, um, uh, it was super competitive at 60 applicants, some of them with PhDs applying for that job for one job. So, you know, the more you have, the better depending on a specialty and depending on how competitive is, of course, notes that very, very competitive process, but also very rewarding process. So, uh, advocate anybody to at least go through that journey because you do learn a lot about yourself through filling in those questions, and the experience you get from the interviews is invaluable. And it really does help to, um develop you. So there's actually another question specific to plastic surgery in the chat box profits saying, How is an A C F in plastic surgery different from CST plastics themed? How much surgical experience theater time do you get in a CF? I can have a crack at that first, since I've literally just finished. Um, so So I was plastic surgery themed CST last year at Chelsea and Westminster. Um, so what that means is it literally means that you're a normal court trainee, but you have a higher proportion of plastic surgery dedicated time. So my my job had 14 months over the two years, whereas I think non themed posts have less than 12 months. Um, an A C F is slightly different, so it's a run through academic training number. Um, so it means that you are a specialist trainee rather than a corps trainee. Um, And in terms of how much surgical experience you get, you get well, you get as much as you get as a normal court trainee. But three months of your 12 months is meant to be dedicated towards research. But then again, it's a discussion that you can have with your supervisor. Um, you can still continue to do on cause during that time period, depending on your project, you might still be in theater gaining experience during that time period. So it is a It is a different profit. You have anything that you wish to add to that? No, I think what he says. Right and again, um, um, your previous speakers mentioned, uh, it is a matter of working extra hard. You're basically having two things going on the same time, Um, in Alex's case. And you know my other fellows case, they'll be doing a PhD, uh, either part time or full time on top of having a full time job. So it is. It is. It is hard, but it's it's definitely doable. Um, so yeah, and, you know, depending on your you need to get a lot of experience. And, uh, most of my academic fellows take time off in in blocks, which I think I found, uh, found it more useful and also probably less disruptive to the unit as well. Sure, that's great. Um, there's another question for you. Is it possible to become a prof without an A C F or CL? Well, I was neither, but I think, uh, it's definitely possible. And, uh, it's, uh I think it's harder to become one without a PhD, though. So I think, uh, you got to have a PhD to show that you you really know about, uh, research in a sense, and you've done a consistent period of it. And and I said, uh, you don't really have to be a professor to do research or go to academics. In a sense, of course, um and I think it's important to emphasize that the A, cf and CL, they're all relatively recent things, Um, along with the formalization of the training pathway, to try and make it sort of more more defined for us to be able to to go through those processes. Before these these existed, the sort of academics we're just firing on all cylinders without having that protected time. So I think it's it is good for us to emphasize that it is protected time and that protected time is likely to give you an advantage with how much research you're able to do, which will allow you to build the portfolio to move into your A c f your CL and your professorship further down line. Um, next question is, please, can you give a brief overview of the medical education themed academic training? How does it differ from the Research one So I can answer this, and I'll also invite Maya into the discussion because I understand Maya has done some work in teaching and education. But I'll have a crack at first because, um, I was frozen. I was an academic, uh, academic foundation doctor in medical education. How it differed was, um, I was expected to do a P g cert in clinical education. Um, and I have more teaching commitments. My project was the same as the other ones. It's a discussion with your supervisor to see what you wanted to do in. In my case, it was a systematic review and some, um, some sort of teaching in the unit to see how we can improve strategies to deal with Covid 19. But it's a It's a pathway which tries to emphasize the teaching that you're able to do. Um, you you'd be expected to probably get an FHA or an A f h e a, um, and get PG certain potentially PG dip in clinical education. Moving forward. Maya, do you have anything that you wish to add to that? Hello again for research training. In my case, it started very early on at an undergraduate degree, but I think I only was able to to really be most in it during my party when I was fully focused on that. And typically you would be focused on a very small area project for a very long time and spend longer hours just and that while in the academic training, there's also the clinical components, and typically you're involved with various different projects. I think that could be one difference. So very focused project in research training versus multiple projects, along with clinical training. I'm not sure if you have that answers that I understood the question. No, no, I think that's fine. Thank you, Maya. Did any of you implement any specific strategies to keep your hands in from a technical perspective to help with the shift from academic to surgical practice. Thinking of a musician that doesn't pick up an instrument. Sorry, Uh, doesn't pick up an instrument for weeks at a time, then expected to play a concert. How might this differ? Depending on the time in training you enter academic practice proper. I think this, um this this one's, uh this one's for you. It's, um, asking how how you balance the sort of craft surgery with with having to put the time in for for research. Of course. If you're a C f R I C l uh, Then, uh, you know, you're you're you're partly academic and partly main clinical. I think that's very important in in a surgical specialties to to be that even a medical too, you know, because you need a pattern recognition and, uh, and which you forget in time. Uh, I spent three years full time PhD, uh, what I was doing on calls, really to keep my hands and, um, as far as and also for extra finances. But I think it's important to have that combination. Otherwise, it's harder, not impossible to come back to it. And, uh, and also, I think if you want to do full time. PhD is probably better off doing it towards earlier on in your specialty, Uh, your academic, your clinical training because then towards the end, you really want to try to focus more on fine tuning your your skills. Um, great advice. Thank you. Thank you very much. Prof. Um, mind you, do you have anything that you wish to add to that? Um, just from the dentistry and dental surgery perspective? Yeah. I think it is really important to still continue with some technical practice. Your technical skills, operative skills, surgical skills. Think that is a key. Yeah. And if if we, uh, unfortunately, don't have sarin anymore, but she she could have shed some more light on how she was able to take her for four years out and and then, uh, resume at S t four level, but, uh, I think you know it's possible, but it's a steep learning curve. So maintaining it while you're doing any full time research is is important in the form of on calls. Um, I just started that I think even just from a confidence perspective, it's important to keep going Video clinical skills. Great. Thank you. very much, Maya. Um, I think that's everything. I can't see any more questions, So thank you very much, everybody for for joining us. Thank you to all of our speakers. Thank you very much. Prof. Thank you, Maya. And thanks. Who who are no longer with us. Um, and again, just to emphasize if there's anything that you wish for us to do, Um, as part of asset in academia, Please do let us know on that front. What we'll do is we'll try and sort of organize those events, um, and create the maximum value for you. I'd like to thank medal, um, Phil and Sue for helping to organize this and host this And Ryan Lulu, Who's the asset head of education who helped to organize this conference. Any questions you have for any of the speakers? They've left their emails. If you want to get involved with their research, they've left their emails. And also, um, finally, we look forward to seeing you next week at the Future of Surgeons conference, which will be taking place in London. Um, also signed person events. There is this hackathon that is taking place at, uh, Royal Free and plastic surgery, but also has other sort of surgical things. We have 100 and 79 attendees signed up so far. So we look forward to welcoming more of you there. Thank you, Sarah, for joining us. I can see you're in the chat now. They have asked all the questions, but thank you very much for your talk. Thank you.