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Hi, everyone. Thank you for joining us this evening. We're just going to wait for a couple more minutes for a few more people to join, Uh, and then I'll introduce our speakers, and we'll get underway. Okay, So thank you, everyone. Thank you for joining us this evening. Uh, my name is Philip A. I'm the chair of the Yorkshire Foundation. Uh, surgical training society. Um, we're predominately based in Yorkshire, and we our goal is try to increase access to surgical training for, uh, foundation foundation trainees. Um, we've been running online events, which we hope you'll find useful. And the topic of this one is all about the preparing for the court surgical interview. We've got to fantastic speakers now who? Both current course surgical trainees. We've got Gordon, who is, um, a current and trauma orthopedics and seems to be going into plastic surgery. And Varane, who is on general surgery in Scarborough. Um, they're both going to talk to, uh, for about 20 minutes about tips and tricks with regarding the interview. And if you've got any questions, if you post in the chat box that will be monitoring throughout the throughout the event, we're doing the second half of the interview event on Monday the 12th. So if you'd like to join us for that, we hope you find it very useful, right? I'll let Gordon get on with his presentation. Okay? Can everyone hear me and see me? Yes, we can hear you. Perfect. All right. So I'm Gordon McCauley. So I'm one of the court trainees Year two in Bradford Royal Infirmary. And like I said, I'm currently on trauma and orthopaedics there. So what we're trying to do is to discuss the management station in the court surgical training interview. So the management station is divided into two sections. The first section is a three minute presentation and then have two minutes of questions. And after that, and then the next section is to discuss problem solving management scenarios. So s a t type aspects. And those will be further discussed and elaborated by Varon, Um, in the next presentation. So the actual, um, the actual, um, section you'll have two assessors there who will listen to your presentation and ask you the questions. And then will be the same assessors who ask you about the sort of ethical issues and after that. In terms of the presentation around two weeks before the actual interview, you'll get a title, Um, of what? What they want the presentation to be. So the title is usually very, very broad. Um, and the whole aim is to try and allow you to showcase everything within your CV. Common title's generally include a teamwork and leadership. So I think for mine it was focusing on how leadership can is part of part of the role of a surgeon today, and similarly, it's also focusing on teamwork and how that can improve or be included within the surgeons life. So it's really, really quite important that you try and structure the presentation. It is supposed to be structured around the the title itself, but it's also really important to make sure that you get everything and all your achievements into, um, the actual presentation as well. So I've looked around for different structures, but a structure that I found quite helpful was it's called Camp or C A M P. So the C stands for clinical. So it's focusing on the clinical aspects and that you've achieved a is academic, which makes sense all the academia and that you've actually done and, um, is management management, and we'll go into a bit more detail about that. And then P is sort of personal achievements as well. So that's a very good, um, structure to how to sort of divide the paragraphs in the sections within your presentation. But obviously, like any sort of speech, you'd want to have an opener and a conclusion. So the opening is You probably wouldn't want to relate to the actual, um, question and to the title that they've given you, but similarly, it would be quite good to have an opening sort of statement. Um, sort of explaining why you want to be a surgeon, Um, and to try and come up with something slightly more flashier than I want to help people with using my hands, Um, if you can try and come up with something that engages and the sort of interviewer and and and to lessen a bit more and similarly with your actual conclusion, and you want to have sort of a lasting impression from that. So what I did for my interview, um, for my presentation is I sort of give a very quick summary of all those four paragraphs in at the end and said, these are why I think that I would be a good, um, course surgical training or why I'm appropriate for this. Um, but again, structure is completely up to you and how you how you think is most appropriate. But I just found this quite helpful and so looking at the clinical type aspect, So this can sometimes be a bit not vague, but it can be quite difficult that you're stage. So if you are in F two or an F three, to show that you have clinical or that you are clinically able to become a surgeon is quite difficult. And so things that you can show as proof is that, um if you've if you have started a log book, which is great, um, or even if you've got quite a few cases as well, then that's even better, because it shows that you have even before you've started course surgical training that you've committed time to this. If any of you have been able to do some courses as well, so basic surgical skills or a T. L s, and those are really, really good and again shows commitment to, you know, to surgery into becoming a surgeon as well. And then, if you don't really have much else, there's not much else apart from that. But if there's if you don't have much other sort of proof about it, and then you can sort of discuss your surgical rotation so everyone in the F one should have probably have done a surgical rotation at some point. So if you can relate, um, to your experience within that rotation and then that similarly does show that you are, you have an interest in, uh, in surgery in terms of academia. So this is something that is very easy to show pre for. So this can either be as an undergrad or as a postgraduate, um as well. So in terms of the undergraduate and signs or evidence for academia, you can discuss about prizes that you've won, um, or about exams that you've achieved. So it could be if you've got a distinction in one year, it's a distinction in your finals. Or if you've got quite a high decile point, then you can discuss that. But they would quite like to see you know postgraduate academia as well. So those things would include any prizes that you've won and there as well. But things like research that you've undertaken again, if you've not actually say or if you've been involved in research, then you can discuss that it doesn't mean that you have to have a paper published in order in order to discuss it or to show that you are sort of committed to that. And and similarly, if you have done your MRCS part, a report be, then that's fantastic. And that shows that you are very, very committed to surgery. Um, but similarly, if you haven't done it, then that's, um, a reason, um, to be worried about it at all. And then sort of lastly, in terms of academia having teaching experience or even doing a teaching course that's really helpful as well to put in. And And it can be as informal, um, as teaching medical students on the ward and then getting feedback for this and anything would, you know, would be appropriate whenever and shows that you are committed to sort of surgery or surgical teaching as well and in terms of management, and it can that can sometimes be a bit broader, and you might have to be a bit more imaginative whenever it comes to it. So sort of clear examples are from if you're an F one or F two would be being part of the, uh, been a committee member of, say, the doctors mess and or within the sort of f one F two. If there's any committees with societies that you are involved with that. Another thing is is that if you've been a rotor coordinator, quite a few people have done that. And and then that's a clear sign that you you can, you know, have managed managerial, um, skills and timekeeping skills whenever it comes to that. And it's not, not particularly for this interview, but it's worthwhile and that you get a letter and saying that you have made a difference whenever you are on these committee members or as I wrote a coordinator as well for your C V and that you know, those are things that they would be looking for. And then in terms of the management and other things that you can look into or prove that you have, um, a good sort of management or leadership skills would be carrying out in all its audit or clinical governance as well. And so those show that you are interested in improving patient safety and patient care. Um, and obviously it is basically quite led by you. And so that can be something that you can discuss to say that you are and you are quite good never comes to leading a team or within management as well. Um, in terms of personal. So this is kind of giving you a platform to show sort of all the leadership and teamwork skills and that you have. And, you know, generally it is focusing on, um, sort of team work as well as sort of leadership skills and in and other things that they would like to see. And in terms of with surgery is sort of and time management as well as sort of emotional resilience and dedication, because these are all aspects and of being a good surgeon, apparently, and so things that you can include for that would be sports that that's from well, from my experience. That is what I put in. But for a lot of other people who have spoken to that. They put in a lot about sports they've done. If they've continued it on as a doctor, if they've been on different teams or committees from that, then it does show quite clearly but similarly can be any sort of extra curricular activities. So people who play musical instruments who are inquires and these are all things that you can add in. And it does give you a certainly more personal touch to the interviewer and and but also demonstrates and sort of a lot about your character as well and common questions. So the the presentation is around three minutes, Um, and then they ask questions after now they can ask you really anything. It's very, very difficult to prepare for that, but they can't ask you just quite some quite broad questions, or it can be slightly more specific. And so, in terms of the broad questions, it can be things like, Why have you applied for court surgical training? Um, what your greatest strength and greatest weaknesses are and sort of what your long term aim is, so those are really quite obvious questions, but it's very obvious, and or it's easy to to know in your head What your answer would be to that instead of actually physically nearly writing out what the what the answer to is, um, because it's whenever you're putting the spot, it it can be a lot more difficult to come up with something imaginative. And so it would be worthwhile to think those through and to have an answer for each of those more specific things and would be about the presentation. And so it would. They would be asking about different projects that you did or different research. So do know those things sort of I/O whenever you do discuss it and an example of what not to do is whenever I was doing my interview, I was discussing I was for my management. I was part of this. It was like a multi center service evaluation over different countries. I didn't do an awful lot for it, but and But I was involved with it, and I was like, This is gonna sound good. And so I said it. And then they ask what was in in your team, what what went badly and how did you overcome it? I literally couldn't think that like I had no answer for it whatsoever. And so my point is, is that you can kind of put in most things that you think are applicable to, um to the, uh to the sort of presentation. But you do kind of need to be aware or be able to answer questions about it, which I didn't really have at that time. So similar again. Having examples of good and bad teamwork or leadership within the various topics that you've added into your presentation is good to know, and it's good to have prepared beforehand as well and advice about the actual presentation in terms of talking through it is only three minutes, so it sounds like a very short period of time, but it's you're trying to pack in a lot for it. So you really, really need to get in, um, and practice practice, practice as much as you can and get it down to the very second, really, and that it's and it's something that you can just walk around the room and think that you've done three minutes but really put a timer down and and then practice it from there and then it also makes you look a lot more slick whenever you do that, um, aspects To be aware of whenever you're doing any speech is sort of the speech tone, how quickly you're doing it and sort of pausing at sort of correct times or times that you want and them to be sort of listening, Uh, and to be sure, and that they're fully engaged for those aspects. So in conclusion, um, the presentation is really the only part of the whole interview process that you actually have control over. So it's really, really important that you put in, um, the adequate amount for that, and and have a look through your CV, um, sort of pick out all the points that you want to say, and then whenever the title comes out, then just cater it towards that title. But make sure that you you try and pack in everything that you can, and for those three minutes and then lastly, just remember to practice the speech before before you go in there. All right, thank you so much for that. And that was really helpful. If anyone's got any quick questions, they want to ask Gordon if you pop it in the group chat, and we can pass it on. If not, we'll do another question session after variance. I'll give you a couple of minutes now. If anyone wants to put any questions in it. Looks like you've done such a good job. God, no one's got any questions. Thank you so much time. So next we've got Baron, who's going to be talking, uh, to with his presentation again. If anyone's got any questions during, if you pop them in the chat, we'll pass them on. Hello, everyone. Uh, my name is barren. I'm I'm currently a cold training at Scarborough Hospital. Thanks, uh, for the introduction. And thank you, Gordon, for the w presentation. I completely agree with everything that Gordon said specifically the point where he focused on that. This is the only part of the interview that you have control over. So I think that's that's something really. Everything should everyone should focus on presentation is something that you could prepare three or four weeks in advance. Okay, so I'm going to talk about the other part of the management stations. That is the 1st, 2nd, 1st, 2nd half of the first part of the presentation where they ask you management question that's basically dealing with the ethical scenarios. Um, this is this is our committee, and I'm the secretary of the committee. And this is where we keep, uh, conducting lectures on, uh, webinars on the city's on, uh, C s two interviews as well. So basically about me, I basically did a F two in general surgery advanced. And one other idea is F D. And currently I'm a city one n t n words. Cabra. Uh, just a few important points about the ethical scenarios that will be talking about, uh, this. They basically use the question from the question bank. I'll be discussing about the resources that are used as well and what are usually recommended. So please make sure you go to them. You practice them as many times as you can. Uh, basically the scenarios that you see are you must have definitely face them and you work in the hospital. You must have dealt with them on the wards and theaters or in any So it's nothing. Nothing new, basically, just basically what you have done. You do the same thing and you just have a structured format to it. That's all they want. You just want to have a structured format and how you would approach them and how you tackled scenario. You have to be very logical and implement the practical knowledge as you must have faced them before. Be confident and always always have a structure so that you don't miss a point and then they can take the boxes. It's all about the buzz words. They are looking for some buzzwords during your interview, so make sure that you cover all of them so that they can focus on those and give you points as they can take the boxes. So these are the resources that I used. Uh, this is a co surgical interview book, which I believe many of you must have seen. Uh, this is specifically the clinical scenario are really, really good over here. I would definitely advise, uh, this book for clinical scenarios. This this have management's stations as well, but the book on the right has more management stations, so I would just say that definitely cover it from the Green book, but use the black book to cover the remaining um management stations as well just would help you get a good hold over the ethical scenarios to the resources I I use. This is how the score ng goes usually, Uh, this is about the presentation. Uh, this definitely garden has covered. And definitely for the management stations. That's how you are marked. Basically. Okay, So one of the common scenarios, the common scenarios usually, uh, conflict solutions, there could be something Clinical and ethical scenarios. Ethical dilemmas, legal and modeled obligations difficulty, uh, difficult colleague, colleague or difficult patient who might be angry or upset. And communication stations. Basically, uh, the types are, like most common. These are the most common ones that I had for my for my, uh, one of them I had for my interview as well as what I could understand from what my colleagues had, uh, delayed surgery. Drunk colleague, the wrong side surgery explaining DNA are with the patient or the, uh, do the elective where the patient is domestic or patient. Confidentiality. Uh, okay. So this is so approach. I'm sure you must have. Everyone must have heard of the spice approach. The seeking for patient safety initiative escalate and support. So this is something What we usually do for a tickle scenarios. I'm sure you must have, uh, come across this Just the one of the courses that I had attended and that just gave a different approach to it. It's exactly the same. They just put patient safety about sick info. And I really like that approach. I believe that as we know, that patient safety is one of the most important pillar of the energy is. So I I really like that approach and I did implement in my practice. So that's the suggestion that I got from one of the courses. So if you guys think that this is a good approach, you could you could consider using that. Basically, my, uh, go to line was patient. Safety is is my absolute absolute priority. So I would make sure blah, blah, blah. And then you would start to seek info. I would explore into blah, blah, blah, uh, one of the important things about spices that make sure that you don't spell out the word as in in seeking for I would make sure this in patient safety, I would make sure this, uh, this this sounds very basic, but I've seen a lot of people having that approach or using the spelling it out basically. So make sure don't spell out. And I'd like to paraphrase words, so basically, if you have been given any station, so this is how I would approach, I would just talk about the patient's safety, assuming, assuming that there's a patient safety or patient safety that is compromised. So patient safety is my absolute priority. And then I would like to explore more than the situation by exploding blah, blah, blah. I would like to. At this point, I would also make sure that I do this for the patient or for the colleague or who would do this. At this point, I would make sure that I have excreted this to my seniors, my registrars, blah, blah, blah. I would also make sure that I have supported my colleague or my patient, but just just make sure that you talk out, talk about it, uh, in and focus on every aspect of spice. Uh, I guess it would be better if you just go by example and, uh, in a retail scenario so we can discuss how people to process spice approach. So, uh, This is the question. Would I even like to, uh, do a mark with me? It would be better if someone just volunteers. We do this Mark. And then maybe we could discuss how different approach could be. Is anyone happy? Would anyone like to come and volunteer for the mark? Uh, I don't think they'll be able to talk, but what they could do is post suggestions into the group's. Okay, that's fine. Okay. I don't know that. Invite them to the stage. If you want them to be able to talk on the mic and then if anyone wants they can Okay. Someone. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I'll just invited to offer it to the stage, so you should be able to mute yourself. Can istaf ick added to the stage? Okay, I think traffic I have invited with the stage. You could, I guess. And mute yourself. Mhm. Hello? Hi, Tofik. Hi. Can you hear me? Yes, we can hear you. Thanks for volunteering. So I'm just gonna read out the question loud, so please use the spice approach or whatever approach you are comfortable. Uh, please tackle this question. Um, so your the quote ring on the orthopedic ward. You arrive to find out the senior registrar, Mr Anderson, has started the war towns alone. You can smell alcohol on his breath. He's visibly off balance and his speech is slurred. How do you proceed? Um so obviously, as a member of the clinical team, I'm very concerned for the patient safety in this scenario, Um, I have some concerns that my senior is under the effects of alcohol, so we need to protect, uh, patient's in case that's true. So I'd like to, uh, first of all, speak to my senior directly and try to confirm or discon firm my concerns. Depending on whether I can confirm my concerns, I will have to make sure, um, that the patient's are protected. This will take place in, uh, by me, making sure whether he has seen anyone already and make sure they are seen again and reviewed, uh, and making sure that my senior is removed from the clinical setting, just in case, uh, just to protect patients' the from this point onwards, Uh, the other thing that we have to make sure of is, um, we have to escalate the situation to, uh, the senior available on site. Uh, once again, this has to do with patient safety in order to establish that everyone that needs to be seen seen and then for the for the situation to be explored further down the line. Um, the other thing that we have to make sure of is to, uh is to make to speak further to the colleague and find out why. Why it is that they showed up to, uh, why it is that they have, uh, showed up to work under the effects of alcohol and try to see whether they there are any anything that we can offer to help Um uh, support or, um, prevent this from taking place again. Um, just in case they are going through some hardship, whether it's, uh, physical or family wise, or, uh um, whether we can support or signpost towards any sort of, uh, help that can prevent this from taking place again and can protect patient's down the line. Okay. Thank you. So when you speak to the standards and he tells you that he's going through a divorce and he's very upset, So he's using alcohol to cope up within sadness. Does that change anything? Yes, of course. Uh, obviously going, going through hardship, uh, is we are all prone for for difficult times, Uh, in this in these, uh, scenarios and particularly, we have to offer our support, uh, for the colleague, given that they have good reasons to be upset. Obviously, advice to contact their seniors, perhaps the educational clinical supervisors is important. Uh, perhaps advice to take some time off or reach out to the G, P and other support networks would be, uh, would be important in this case. However, given, given the concerns for patient safety, I think this situation needs to be escalated, preferably by by this by my colleague themselves rather than myself. However, if it comes to it, I'll have to escalate it. Um, given that the danger of the or the patient safety concerns that, uh, that did rise with the situation, okay. And if the colleague offers you 100 lbs and ask you to not tell this to anyone, how would you approach? What could you do? Uh, obviously, obviously, I'll have to decline decline the bribe. Uh uh. We'll have to make sure once again to explain that were I'll have to explain that I'm offering my support and that my concerns once again, our, uh, our for the patient's while at the same time, um, showing empathy towards this person as they're going some hardship. Once again, I'll encourage them to escalate the situation. But given that they're offering me such a bribe, I'll have very I'll be very doubtful that they will do they do it to themselves. So I'll keep an eye to the situation escalated according, uh, what if, uh, what do you escalate this to the GM? See what you inform the GM See about this. Sorry, I couldn't hear that. What, you informed the GM see about this incident? Um, I would I would initially start off by escalating locally and then further investigations in the local on the local level, a decision would be made whether an escalation to the G. M. C. Is is applicable or relevant or not. Okay. Okay. Well, then well, in traffic. So very good. Good reply response to the questions and also when you a process ation Well, so I would say you take the box is just maybe a more systematic approach. We definitely will come with practice So, uh, just how we would like to approach this station so more or less it's the same approach, just trying to structure it in a better way. So, firstly, always, uh, it's it's good that if you highlight what the issues are, uh, so basically, in this situation, the key issues are patient safety, the safety of the patient as well as the registrar and the professionalism that he came to the came to work basically, uh, smelling of alcohol. So in seek info, it's important to explore if the if he has, if he is drunk or not. So I think at this point I would also like to. So this is how would I would how I would like to sorry how I would like to approach that. I would like to take Mr Anderson aside and ask. Talk to him Privately. I would like to make sure that I'm away from any clinical setting from patient staff or any member of the treating team. Uh, then I think it's important to approach him in a non confrontation manner so that we can get to know mode and ask him that if he if he if by any chance? Is he feeling unwell? Since he was, uh, probably so there's a chance that he could be feeling unwell. He could run a fever. Or, if he's smelling of alcohol, maybe he could have taken any medications, anything at all. So it's important that we rule all these possibilities. So this is taking the box for seeking, for you have explored other possibilities. Then, at this time you take the initiative. How do you initiate you make sure that the ward rounds are complete, So at this point, you make sure that you either get a registrar or you get a consultant and make sure that you finish the ward rounds or whatever the clinical duties are assigned to him. The theater speed ward rounds. And since he has started a war down Chalone, it's important that he goes back and he sees the patient's that he that has been seen by them. And he has made a plan. So make sure no plan has been implemented and would go through all the plan that has been made by him so that we make sure that, uh, the patient's safety is not compromised. And also, yes, we would make sure that someone is sardines, took over his clinical duties, and then how would he support? So I would make sure that when Mr Anderson doesn't drive back home and I would make sure I ordered a taxi for him so that I can keep a track if he reaches home safely, I would also make sure I will try to make sure they offer him some snacks or some food while he's waiting for the taxi. And as you rightly mentioned as well about with the reason, I would like to explode the reason behind this so that I understand if he's going through hardships or something like that. And, uh, make sure you document everything. Uh, in this, you know, you mentioned about escalation, so you tackle the question. Well, just advice is to keep it short. Uh, it's It's just that we don't have to repeat the spice format. When they answer, ask a question. We have to keep it short because if you keep it short, they can ask you more questions. And that takes more boxes. Basically, if you haven't answered everything in the spice, they would ask you so that you they give you a chance to score more. So usually they would ask you, uh, does that change anything? Know, as you rightly said, GPF it and everything. That's that's a good thing that you would make sure that you help them support him through this process. And then, uh, second was, if you if he offers you money, that's definitely I would politely decline and would, uh, make sure that I helped him and support him and about the G m. C. I think the ideal response would be that at this point, I would just make sure that escalating my clinical education supervisor and it would be up to their discretion if they would want to escalate further. Or they would want to give him a warning or whatever. So I think at this point it's best to diplomatically answered and not give them a firm yes or no, because you wouldn't want to go to the G. M. C. It's It's the seniors who decide, right? Since you mentioned about the chain of command, I just, uh, focused on that. So this is usually the chain of command. Um, this is something that's, uh, that you could use in any answer where they ask you This is pretty common question. They always ask in a follow up question, who would you escalated to and what is the chain of command? So always make sure that you always ask you to the registrar, the consultant. If not, then the clinical lead education supervisor, college tutor and training program director. That's usual change of chain of command, which this is This is like a frame frame answer wherever they ask. You could just refer to this. Okay, Thanks. Tawfeeq. Uh, there's one more station which I had in my interview. If anyone would if anyone else would like to come up on stage and black business if you just want to, like, just write in the chart. If not, we'll just go ahead. Okay, that's fine. So this is what I had got in my, uh, in my interview. So patient was posted for extra drainage of right? Actually the abscess at nine. Am in the morning, um, who was stabbed overnight due to an urgent laboratory. The case has been pushed further. This is the third time in a row the same case has been postponed. How would you approach the patient. So you understand from this that the patient is already annoyed and is upset since it's been pushed repeatedly. So how would you approach? So this is how I a process station. Um so the key issues here are patient safety, so you need to make sure that access you need to make sure that the patient is assessed. His vitals are stable. He's not septic. He's not spiking. And he's not unwell. Uh, you'll review him, uh, and do a quick it. We Then you also make sure he's in diabetic or doesn't have any comorbidities. And also make sure about his n B M status. If he's been facet for a long time, and then you would might you would want to make sure that he at least doing something so that you know, the next tentative time when he could be operated according to the anesthetic policy plus anesthetic policy, uh, again, patient safety that could always be able to go to a statement. Patient's. It is absolute priority. So you will do the test and, uh, then initiative. So it's time you approached the patient. So what would you do? I would like to uh, approach the patient. When I'm approaching the patient, I'll make sure then I am accompanied with the nurse in charge. Or that's just the nurse staff nurse who was looking after the patient on the wards during his admission. And I would make sure that I have this conversation in a private room with the patient, and, uh, at this point I would escalate. I would find a legislator, a consultant, and inform them that the patient has been waiting for three days, and I would also approach. At this point, I would a prosecutor coordinator, an anesthetic consultant, to see if there's any theater available if the staff is available and if we could manage to do the case simultaneously in some of the case. Uh, some of the theater sometimes if they elect okay, gets over early, or if any cases canceled, you would might. We would at least try to make sure if there are any alternatives to this. If not, you would at least go to the theaters, find out a tentative timing and tell the patient that the that it might take at least X y Z amount of hours for the patient, for theaters to come out so you could at least have some sips of water or have your medications or something. So support. So this is some very would. You would say I would reflect on this incident, how I dealt with an unhappy patient or another patient. I would consider doing an audit on this, as abscess is meant to be. A day case and abscess has been in the hospital for three days, so that's basically blocking the bed. So this could have been used for another emergency case If the patient would have gone home the same day and then you could go back retrospectively and you would say that I would I would go retrospective and find out how many Abscess Patient's have delayed, have been delayed and have had not had surgeries the same day of admission since. It's the same day. Case and I would also go to the trash guidelines for the same if we are not addicting to the guidelines. For whatever reason, I would like to make sure that I do an audit and present it one of the meetings so that we can at least make sure that the abscess patient's have been dealt within 24 hours and sent home more distrust the same day. Uh, this is this is how I would approach. So also, at this point, I would like to mention this this few points, Uh, these are like a few pointers where which you could use depending upon the scenario, which I always made a note of. All those things like, um, always highlighted issues. Whenever you start with the station, that's that's what my approach was. I always highlighted the key issues that the key issues in the stations are blah, blah, blah and put it over the patient safety, professionalism or, um, and negligence. Uh, patient confidentiality. Whatever you think the key issues is key issues are and, uh, always mentioned to offer pals. Like in this particular case, you could have we could offer pals to the patient incident report If it's been delayed continuously. Day takes you could a textile? Since it's been three days, it's been getting postponed. Duty of candor. This is usually in the case of wrong side surgery. Uh, Requip project so quickly could ordered anything, whatever you would prefer. So I would do an audit on this or do a quality improvement project and always mention any any incident that you think is significant enough that you would make sure that you reflect on this on your portfolio. You would have a reflection in your portfolio. So this is something that you could always use depending upon the scenario. Uh, so this is how I would approach the ethical stations? Uh, some very, uh, rarely. But sometimes there have been cases where they don't ask you management ethical scenarios. They might ask you some questions. Like W checklist. He is a staging and support classification type of consent forms. If they don't ask you the stations as a whole, they might ask you this question as a follow up for some of the questions. Like, maybe they could have asked you about density for classification. Um, in this scenario as well, that has a laparotomy for a dupe of what state of n support classification is it? Versus um, your buses and apps is was always not unveil is not septic. Um, so something like this, they could have a follow up question. So I thought a follow up question or they could ask you as a whole for a five minute questions, so make sure you know about all these things in detail. That's about the topics escalation we have discussed and important points. Please make sure that, uh, to use this somewhere in the support section so that this helps you stand out. And this is these are the bus bus what they're looking for and definitely they are pleased to know about all these things. Um, yeah, that's that's it from my side about that Tickle stations, if you have any questions, uh, please free. Free to ask in the chats. Or if you want to come, uh, you can come on line and ask. Thank you very much. Darren. That was fantastic. Um, has anyone got any questions? We'll give you a couple of minutes to pop them in either to Varun or Gordon. Um, if not our next session, Uh, we've got a session next week. Practice posted the link in our chat. If you want to join us for the next half, which will be, uh, focus on some of the clinical skills and other aspects of the interview. If you could feed it, uh, fill in a feedback form which be really helpful. Just so we know. So we can help tailor this, um, tailor the talk to make sure that we can help you get out of it. What? You What's beneficial for you? That'd be fantastic. If anyone's got any comments or any questions, just pop them in. Pop them in the chat box. Thanks, Wafiq. Um, has anybody else got any any questions or or any comments? Um, we're happy to leave the chat box up and you can post if you do the feedback, you'll be sent a certificate of attendance that you can pop in your portfolio.