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to red light comes up, so Okay. Hi. Uh, so I messed up and I've been with you all day. And with Karen and Khloe, we're going to be doing the every talk, So I'm a J C F at West PVD. Karen, do you want to come by yourself? Hi, I'm Karen. I'm J c F. I'm currently working at Saint Thomas. Is pediatric any? Hi, I'm Chloe. I'm currently low coming. And then I'm planning an F three abroad. Yeah. So it's good. So starting off with talking the question Do I need to do an F three? And I think especially now it's coming. So and so popular for everyone to do it. It feels like someone almost you have to do. I don't feel any pressure that you have to or you don't have to. There is no right way to do your career and start. I'm going to go through some of the pros and cons of doing it because some people it is just beneficial. Go straight to training. Um, so I think if you do it every, you're kinda deciding where you want to sacrifice your life. So if you do it every you get more fun in your twenties, you can go up to the front of your twenties. You also doing it for free. But that means you're gonna be read a bit later on to your thirties. So you know, you're gonna be doing nights when you're older. You're going to be doing nights when you have kids. You deciding? Do I want to give up my twenty's being a the federal and give up my thirties? So pros and cons both ways freedom with stability. So for some people, it's great you can do a year ago to Australia. You can do a year learning a new skill. You can do a lot of things like that. Some people with stability is actually nice to get early. Something I didn't consider one of my friends. She is doing enough free, and part of the reason she doesn't want to do enough for is because you know what? I'm still not in a relationship. I want to start maybe settling down. If I don't know, I'm going to be every year. I can't make those kind of long term commitment. I want to at this point. So what? It is great to have that freedom. In some ways, it can stop you moving forward in life. So depending on what your situation entails, another one is turning more money, so everything's great. Can earn a lot of money low coming. Obviously, get two consultants out of it quicker. Well, any more money, Long term in most situations. Just about When do you want this money? Now? Do you want it now to save up for health deposit? Or are you set at this point? And you just kind of want to get to a higher income quicker, so it's depending on when you need the money. Go next year portfolio and every will always help with that. You can either do it in a J CFO or do it in a even like the bank. You can build a portfolio. We'll get more into that later. Uh, so one thing I didn't really know until now is that in a lot of other specialties, you have to justify an that's our program here, locally called an oopsie. I love that name for it. But at any point in your training, you can just take another program yet, and, uh, especially if you really got to justify why you're doing it. But I've talked to multiple Reg is whoever been like I just said I just I'm a bit tired. I just want to take a break. I don't have anything specific plan and they've all been able to take our program years with very little fight. So don't feel like if I don't take a break now, I can't ever take it. You can take our program years throughout your career, so find out when in life you want to take that break. I recommend you take one. It doesn't have to be a free. Next is friends. So think about what your friends are doing. So for me, all my friends are doing every day we want to go traveling for a few years. So every worked perfectly for me taking our program here a bit later. Other people in your life they might be settled down with kids, so it would be great. Our program here, but you can't go traveling with your friends will be traveling all the time because again to finding out what people around you are doing and using that to help you decide next is yeah. So what do you want to do in your free? You can do a chill, a free you can do. Low can pick up at hockey. Or you can do a JC for 12 months, which is pretty much like doing a full time job. So it's what's more important to do. You want to build up your portfolio, you just need a mental health break. And if you need a mental health break, chill a free and then maybe do a harder for building up your portfolio, so there is no right way to do it for free. And, yeah, you can do these work, and that's a common way to do it. Every. Pick up these locomotives. But if your focus is on money and you open, do an adult work, you don't have to do paperwork and your free. You can do people for yourself. You can get more research piece teaching, but if you're open to adult and the shots will make the most money and you'll have the most consistent work if you're not really in London, it's really hard to do only peed consistently for every as bank work and of all, it's just developing yourself personally. I know friends who are using this year to either Go learn to skydive, learned to hang, glide, learn to swim, learn to surf. You are a person outside of medicine. So no free could be that year to just get back into a thing you used to be into and maybe use the cycle or used to play drums you want to get back into. It is a great time to do that. And for a lot of people who didn't get an F one F two, the time to figure out is peed or is a subspecialty right for you. So for me, I know I want to do pediatrics, but I'm really set on pen, which is peace emergency medicine. So I've got six months A, C, J, C, F and PVD. So it's really useful knowing early whether a subspecialty is for you, rather than taking your whole CV to it. And then when you get to do it in ST six or seven. Actually, it turns out it's not for you. So it's nice to find out early if a subspecialty is right for you, so options. So that's kind of what we're talking about the first one. If you're a junior clinical fellow or your trust grades, that's a full time contract agency or bank work. That's more kind of a lot more flexible. He's going to Australia like Khloe is doing for a child to work abroad. So we saw MSF. So the other stuff about that, and finally, it's a purely non clinical every. So you can just do purely research a purely teaching for a year, and you can do a combination of the above. So I am doing a JC for six months. Then I'm going to bank for four months and I'm going to go traveling for two months so you can do a lot in your free. You don't have to commit to one thing for the whole year. Yeah, so, um so, as I said, I'm currently doing a good job at the moment. So I think the thing that I personally liked about the idea of being a clinical fellow is that I'm someone who likes having a schedule. So the thought of not having any specific time table for a good few months or even the whole year was quite a scary idea to me. So I personally choose to do a clinical better job because I knew that at least so I'm doing my job for six months. So I knew for at least six months of the year I would know exactly what I was doing, what shift I'd be working, and I could my time around that. So it's really useful in terms of having job security so you can have a six month or a 12 month fellowship job. And if you do six months, you can often extend, um, that job to 12 months if you decide that that's what you'd like to continue doing as well. So it's quite nice to have that security of knowing exactly what job you're doing. It's quite nice to have that freedom as well, to choose which job you like to do because obviously, um, in your F one F two years, you might have had some choice in which specialties you ended up with. But this will be the first job, essentially, that you get to choose for yourself what specialty might be working in, and also which hospital you'll be working as well, which is quite nice to have that choice. It's really great for your C TV as well. Um, so it's great if you haven't had the opportunity to work in pediatrics before, haven't had much experience. It's really lovely to put that on TV. Um, so you don't need it for your tender pediatric training, but it's just quite nice to boost up there. See, be a little bit as well. Um, and what comes with a clinical fellow job? As well as there's lots of you get involved in a lot of the opportunities that are available in the units. So especially if you're working in a teaching hospital, there will be lots of opportunities to teach, particularly medical students. Um, and you will Also it's released because you have your own designated supervisor as well. So I have an educational supervisor who is who is my point of contact. So you essentially have a lot more support than if you're working in bank where you wouldn't have a supervisor looking out for you. And, uh, it depends on the trust. How much of the study budget and study leave that you get, but you are entitled to study Leave, which is really useful as well to, um, take time out to attend relevant courses. And if there's any exams that you want to do as well, then you can take the time to do that as well. Um, well, and that would be paid for you as well. So if you're a locum, you would essentially have to take that time out yourself so you you wouldn't be earning. But that time is built into your, um, clinical fellow job timetable. So you get that you get the opportunity, which is really good. The drawbacks, obviously, is because you're working a job with a full time writer and you're working on calls. You don't have the flexibility. So you still have to work night shifts. You still have to work weekends long hours. So locals, where you get to pick and choose when you're working, obviously you lose that flexibility. If you have a contractor and you have a timetable and hourly rates aren't as good as if you were choosing to do low comes but on the flipside, you're more likely to have consistent work. So it depends on your personal preference as to what works for you. Um And as I mentioned before you, you're doing like you're doing long days which, uh which aren't always so much fun when you don't get to choose when you're doing them. So in terms of how you get a great job So the first thing you can do is if you are currently working in a trust that you are familiar with, that you like working in. And you know you'd like to continue with the same trust if you get in contact with them with the trust with with your educational leads, especially that would be able to help you. Um, for your, um, founded coordinators, they would be able to help you. Um, they will often be able to get wind of posts that they haven't yet out for advertising yet. So you could essentially get ahead and be the first person that that finds out about it and be more likely to get the post that you'd like. Um, what I personally did is I I went to any chest jobs or you can also BMJ jobs as well. I set up an account where I put an alert so I would get so I put in key words. So I put in pediatric clinical fellow as my key words, and every time a new job person became available, I would get an email to say these are the jobs that are available so that would, rather than having two regularly such, I would get regular e mails telling me which jobs are available where and then I can decide whether or not there was something that I would want to apply to. So I started looking in December. Um, a lot of the jobs at that point were to start in March, but sometimes there were some jobs. That was in August September start as well. Um, I started applying for jobs in February March time. Um, and we would also advised as well, if you do decide to apply through any chest will be the BMJ jobs that you that there's a cutoff date, so they'll tell you when the there's a cutoff date for when the application is closed. But if they do get too many applications, they will often close earlier than the original state of date. So the sooner you get your application in the better. So the advice I give in terms of making those applications is that a lot of the time you will be answering the same questions on the application about your previous work experience about your previous skills, about your motivation for wanting to apply for jobs. So it would be a good idea to start kind of creating that information, collating your experience, um, collecting the skills that you've developed in your time, so at the time as a foundation doctor and then putting that into a general document. Sometimes they will also ask why specifically want to apply to that trust? So be very careful when you do apply to different trust that you are making sure you are putting in the correct information for each trust. So it's good to have a general background. Um, it's good to have a draft essentially, but make sure that it is relevant to each job that you apply to, so make sure you're not putting in some things that are appropriate for another trust that isn't appropriate, the one that you are applying to and if there's a specific trust that you want to work in, uh, if you have any contacts in the hospital or um or you can. You can essentially email the department directly and get involved and ask if if you, if they have any post available, that are suit suitable for what you're looking for. Um, So, as I said, I'm taking a year abroad. I'm planning to move out to Australia and to the emergency medicine. But, um, I think it's difficult to decide what to do. And if you're taking an F three, it's like quite an ideal time to go abroad. Um, because it's sort of a natural break. And luckily there's a lot of opportunity around the world as a doctor, and a lot of people think three is really ideal time to travel. And so quite a lot of people I know are either traveling and welcoming or else thank you, have a year abroad for working. Obviously, some places you might require, like language skills or else further exams. I know America. You need to do more exams, so that is a bit less popular. But most people seem to either go to Australia and New Zealand, and so that is probably the most popular place. Um, the next slide, Um, so if you're thinking about going away to Australia and New Zealand. I sort of thought about pros and cons and pros for me, most importantly, where the opportunity to travel and there's a lot of opportunities to travel with in Australia and New Zealand and then also just out with their your the whole way over the other side of the world. And there's obviously all the countries around that. So that was sort of the appeal to me. Um, another main one is an improved work life balance, Um, so obviously coming from foundation within the NHS, you're a lot more tied and even going on to like a clinical fellow job, and the hours are normally more so you might do like 48 hours in a week on average, whereas in Australia, most of the sort of trust drop jobs are about 35 or 36 hours a week, and and the pay is considerably more so you're sort of doing less work for more money, and then the lifestyle is a lot better out there. And there's things like tax relief and things like that, which is an appeal to people. Um, other pro's were for me getting to take a break from the N. H s. So like trying a different health system and hopefully developing a lot of new skills. And within that, um, and some people are entitled to relocation money. So it's, um that was really good. Um, for people going out Now there's $10,000 from the government and for for, like, professional work going out. And so that was really helpful. And when thinking about going out and the cons are unfortunately, it's a very long process. Um, and I've started it in November and some sort of just tying up the ends now to go out in a couple of weeks. So it is very long. There's a lot of admin. You have to be quite try to be organized, um, with all the paperwork and it is very expensive. And so if you're not getting some sort of grant, it could cost you around, maybe 5000 lbs to get out there and flights and things included. And just to be aware of revalidation and appraisals and things like that, which you would get sort of sorted, Um, if you're doing a C d. F and when you're coming back to the UK you need to, um, sort of sort that yourself. So it's just something to think about. Mhm. I just have the next one. Sorry. And so the application process is quite straightforward, and it was really simple. I put a list of some guides outside there which were have sort of step by step lists of how to do everything, but mainly for me. I just looked for somewhere that I thought I might want to go. Um, so if you decide a city or country even and then sort of gather most of your documents so that you'll need and all these sort of guys have, like, a full list of what you need, but just like passport, medical degree GMC certificates, things like that. And that's all what you need. So we gather that all that sort of takes a fair bit of time to get all that and then apply for jobs online. Um, you can email health boards and hospitals as well directly. So if you find a hospital that you want to work in normally, just the mailing them and asking them and what sort of jobs there are and how you go about applying, and then they'll send you over what you need and interviews again. We're really straightforward. Mine was just a sort of recorded interview. Um, so they would ask you a question. You record your answer to it and send it off to them, and you can pick what time you've done it. So it was really helpful. Once you secure job, you'll have someone to help. You sort of run through everything else. Um, so after getting the job is the longest part to sort everything actually get out there and so notarized documents, police checks, health checks and then just actually booking everything you need. Um, but as I said, once you have a job normally like your agent or your, um, sort of secretarial type person will help you organize all that, and they sort of send you quite like comprehensive lists of exactly what you need to do and when and so it seems really overwhelming. But someone does help you with it, and it's not particularly difficult. It's just time consuming. And so it's definitely straight forward. And can I just have the next one again? Um and then obviously we spoke about low coming, Um, as opposed to doing a sort of C d. F for a post. Personally, I've been low coming before. I go to Australia just to try to make some money before I go. And so, in terms of looking, you obviously have the option of whether you go through the bank like you mentioned earlier or whether you joined some sort of agency. Um, I personally have joined a couple of agencies. Um, simply because the money is better. Um, And for me, and they wouldn't let me join the bank in Belfast. Have not worked in Northern Ireland before and not in the trust. So they were They had their bank sort of closed, only people who worked there before, so that kind of limited the options for me a little bit. Um, bank some the rates are normally lower, but obviously you would have hopefully a more familiar working environment. And normally you get offered the shifts first. Um, so that is the benefits of the bank. Whereas agencies you can find sort of long term low can work through that you can get offered sort of six months or four months. Set shifts, sort of take a road, a gap through an agency that can secure you a bit more like stability. If that's what you're looking agency, they do pay a lot more. Um, and the further you're willing to travel or two like more secluded, this is the money is a lot more lucrative to try to, like, draw people in. So it depends what you're looking for if you want to do make a lot of money fast. Agency was definitely probably the most ideal. And and with the agencies, if you sign up for an agency, you could actually find work sort of like Northern Ireland and Scotland. England. So it opens you up to a lot more places. Um, one of my agencies even was asking for people to go to Gibraltar for six months. And so it's like you might be able to find stuff a bit further field, if that's what you're looking. Um, and the benefit of an agency for me was they actually help you look for the shifts and stuff so you can just tell them when you're free and like where you would be willing to go and they all sort of find you the best shifts for you, and then the PE is weekly or fortnightly normally. So that's also a big benefit. Um oh, yes. I'm sorry. I think I just wanted to mention that through the bank. If you're familiar with the trust and maybe you know, the staff and things you could possibly do some sort of quality improvement or auditing. Um, whereas I think if you're through an agency just low coming, sort of picking up all the jobs here and there, I don't really feel you'll be able to do that sort of thing. And but you could use your extra free time to do something else Portfolio based. But just to be aware that sometimes the bank might be better whenever you're trying to improve your portfolio from that point of view, then I think I just got one more after this. Um, so again, how do you apply to agency and bank banking? Normally really straightforward. You can just email the sort of trust directly, or if you know any of the sort of like Rhoda coordinators. If you just ask them, they can put you on normally and straight forward. Just contact them directly agencies is also really straightforward. And I used that Medley just put you just put your details on the air and then what you're looking for And then people actually contact you with, like, job offers, rates and calls and things like that. Um, I found, like, once you put your details out there and say you're looking for work agents contact you a lot, and they're very keen to, like sign you up. Obviously, they're getting some sort of feel out of it, and but they're really helpful that you can sort of walk you through everything. It's again simple, but, uh, time consuming, and it is quite a lot of admin. You might want to. I would if I could go back. And I recommend looking into what agency I would sign up with more. Um rather than just like signing up the first one that contacted makes noise. Since then, I've had to sign up to more to get the sort of work that I'm looking. So I just sort of be aware to look at a bit more into it and try to pick a better agency. So you're not signing up to multiple? It is kind of time consuming, but they do find you work. So it's actually pretty. It's quite helpful. Yeah, I think that's him for that. Uh, it's in your urine. You. Thank you. I'm sorry. Yeah, So we're running a little bit, so I'm just going to quickly power through this stuff. You can try. It will work abroad if you find NGO MSF like we had earlier bit red levels. There are other ones where you can find that you can also contact hospitals directly. I know some people do it everywhere. They just, um did Research a year does tend to not be paid, so you need to have the money ready to go. But if you're in that situation where you can't afford it, you can just go up somewhere and research for a year. It's a great thing. Additional advice. Yeah, we talked about this. Um, just really have to talk on exams. But just just as a quick note, F three is a good time to get those exams done. So you absolutely do not need to have exams done before you start pediatric training, but it's just a way of your shoulders. If you can get those exams done early. And just just a lot of advice, too. Um, you if you do take an F three to use the time to build things in your CB, So take the opportunities to go two courses, um, and build up your skills and get involved in quips, uh, when you have the time, but it just depends on depends on yourself. So you know you don't have to do these things, but it's a big help. So the main thing is just making sure you are better off than when you started. And if you're not going to be better off in anyway, don't do a pet free. It's not necessary. So either make a lot of money, just locum as much as you can save up for a house because it saves up for whatever you want, that's important to you or build up your portfolio. If you're trying to pediatric, you're not strong enough. One. If you're not sure you don't do pediatric, try out. See if it's for you or sometimes just personal growth. Just taking some time to take care of your mental health. Take some time to learn a new skill get back into a new hobby. But if you're not gonna end a free either better academically work wise or just in yourself as a person, then there's no pressure to know if we just go straight to training. And finally, it doesn't penalize you. Do Multiple FBS is some specialties will say, You know, you. If you've done more than two or three years' experience, you can play if you want. Pediatrics no longer does that. So if you want to do a lot of things, you can do an F three and F four and five. That was all completely fine. It doesn't hurt your application of pediatrics at all. So because we're running just enough to mention, uh for people who don't have it in the F one F two, the Children's Hospital for Wales want us to advertise this, saying that you can do a pediatric case today, so obviously there is a bit far. If you're nearby, it's great, but we'll leave it on the screen while we open up the questions. So so you won't have any questions about five minutes for a Q and A and then we'll move on to the end of the conference. Khloe, I think there's an odd question. Oh, yeah. Um, so, yeah, it's not even something. I realized I had not really realized anything about revalidation or appraisals before someone else mentioned it to me. And then when I started looking into it seems like for the GMC, your revalidation will be like mine isn't gonna be in 2026. So it seems like it's like, four years down the line from now. Um, and then appraisals should be sort of yearly is what I've seen. I sort of got advised that it isn't, um, difficult to do, and it's normally look straight forward. The only thing is, people will say to keep sort of a record of stuff that you're doing out there. So I was advised that similar to how you do, and I like your ass to get your F two and things signed off, you should sort of be doing similar just off your own back. So, like getting sort of workplace assessments done and having people that can be your referee or can, like, sign your skills to say you can do them and then doing like, maybe short reflections or keeping a tab of sort of skills that you have and when you've been using. And it's all just evidence, really to say that your suitable to be working still. So that's what I had been advised. But it's not difficult, but it's better to sort of keep a track of everything as you go along so that when it comes to you're not going to be struggling to sort of improve your competencies or get your revalidation. Um, I think that's all any other questions? Um, if not, we'll just move on to the final 5 10 minute talk and not supposed to win. And then you're free to go. Thank you, thank you. It looks like not any questions. We just didn't have anything job, do you? Do you want to enjoy me on the stage? And then we say goodbye. Yes, let's go