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Patrick's with doctor M. R. Alexander. So she's a pediatric ST to doctor, currently working at the Royal London Hospital. And she's an academic clinical fellow with Queen Mary University of London, which has an interest in hepatology, endocrinology and critical care and has been involved in research since medical school, including reviews and clinical trials. She's also currently the secretary of pets, IgG, which is the pediatric educator Special Interest Group. And she's passionate about improving access to high quality academic mentoring. So I'll hand over to Emma now. Thank you very much for your help. Hi, Abby. Thank you so much. Um, so I'm going to talk as quickly as I can about some aspects of a career in academic pediatrics. But I hope whether or not you want to become an academic or follow the academic career path way, this will be relevant because all of us have to do research at some point in some way. Um, so just a bit about me. So I never would have thought I'd get involved in research. And I did an arts degree, is my undergraduate. Um, Then I started medicine. And, to be honest, the only reason I got interested in research is because I heard that it gave you another shot at the foundation application scheme through the AFP scheme. So that was pretty much the only way I did it originally to try and get points. Um but then I really got interested in it and I think it's having a kind of side career, whether it's research or education or whatever. It's really good to help your mental health and give you a bit of time off from the wards. And so I did an AFP in Northwest Times which was actually an adult endocrinology because of Cove. It had no pediatric relevance. Um and then I'm currently An S t two at the Royal London um, and an academic clinical fellow affiliated to Queen Mary University of London. Um, so this is a pretty text heavy slide. But when you start your pediatric training, you have to sign up on a website called Kaizen, which is pretty much the equivalent of four s. And over your whole pediatric career, there are kind of about 12 research domains you need to prove before you can see CT, and the 11th one is research and so That's why I'm showing you here. And then you see, it's got kind of 1 to 3 domains and domain one is kind of your learning outcomes in your S H O years. So you need to be able to show in your portfolio you've done a literature review and you can explain research to patients. Um, so that means even if you hate research, you don't want to do anything. You need to be able to tip these boxes, and then the other two don't remains about your red years and sort of higher red years. So in those years, you need to show you participated in research activity in some way, you can apply knowledge of research principles and critique of research article. You can practice evidence based medicine. You can lead in development of guidelines. So even if you hate it at some point, you're going to have to do it, so I'll try and make it relevant. So I'm going to talk in three areas about how you can get experience of research. So, firstly, I'll just review the kind of formal academic training pathway. Then I'll do kind of the informal pathway which is actually how I've got most of my research experience, which is basically like finding your own path, picking up stuff at random. And then I'll talk about kind of in between other opportunities you can get, which don't necessarily require any prior experience So formal pathway. So I'm sure everyone has seen this somewhere, but I'll just kind of review it. So you've got your medical. So these are the kind of stages of the formal academic training career pathway that's run by the NIH. Are so you guys are all in your foundation here at the moment and some of you will be doing an AFP. Um, if you're not, that's totally fine. None of the further steps require an AFP and to be honest, my AFP although it was good, Uh, none of the stuff I did in it has helped me later on, um and then so the academic Clinical Fellowship is essentially the equivalent of the AFP, but for S h O. So that means you spend 25% of your s t 123 years doing a research project. So for me, that's going to be nine months out, which I'm very much looking forward to having a bit of a break. Um, and then you go to the point of it is that you're supposed to use that time to prepare a grant application for a PhD. So that's where you see this area going out sort of year three, where someone does the training fellowship for a PhD, but you don't have to use it to prep a grant. You can just do it for its own sake, and then after you have a PhD, and then you can do a clinical lectureship within your kind of higher registrar years where you have about 50% academic time and if, after all that, you're still not hating yourself and then you can do kind of a senior consulting the academic post, Um, so I'll just talk briefly about the application process for the A C F. Because I know since you're here on a Saturday morning, probably some of you are interested in doing it. If you're not, I'll go back to more relevant stuff later. And so the posts are advertised nationally and you apply for them on Oriole, and they're advertised every October, and they differ every year. So what happens is all the different universities kind of pitch to have an A cf, post and different year. Different universities will win that pitching process and different departments as well. Um, so my a CF is themed in pediatric endocrinology, and it was it was pitched as specifically pediatric endocrinology post. Um, there will be other ones which don't have any theme, so you can choose your theme. For example, there was one in whole New York last year in pediatric oncology, which was, I think, the first time they had one for a while, and it looked very specialized and great so they can be specialized or not. And as I said, they differ every year. So if you're interested to have a look on the Internet in the next few weeks, you'll see some of these start to come out. And when you apply, there's a kind of points based application system that gives you points for clinical experience. Prior degrees, publications, conferences, teaching prizes, general academic experience and kind of overall impression of you, and what you'll notice about this is that it's rewards research, so you've got your publications and conferences, but also it rewards other things, so teaching prizes. So if you're someone who thinks, Oh, I might want to do research But I haven't got many publications You can still show your, um, hardworking person in lots of other ways. And so I just got the box here, which shows how the points are scored for publications. And actually, it's not super harsh, so you get full points. If you have one publication in a major journals. As a first author, you get three points if you have one. Publication is a co author, and so it's not super, super harsh. Um, and then once you get through that kind of pre application scoring process, you will be invited to interview. Um, interviews are done kind of differently all over the country. Um, some places you will be interviewed just specifically by the department. That's recruiting you. So it might be that pediatric oncology post just the pediatric oncologists and some of them, like in London, your interviewed by a panel from various people from different universities. So you aren't interviewed for a specific post there just recruiting to see just generally, how good are you? And so try and think before you go to that interview. What project you might want to do. Try and contact some academic leads, but if you come up with a project at the interview, you don't necessarily have to stick with that. I'm doing something quite different from what I talked about originally. And then you'll go through that process, you'll get your marks. Um, and then you'll be offered a post in January or so. And then you also need to go through the normal ST one recruitment process. But all you need to do in that process is to be a point toble so you don't have to score. Well, you don't need to kind of meet the threshold for London. You can just be a point. Well, not not mess anything up basically. And then if you do that, you're in. Um, and if anyone's interested in a cf So this is the website you want to be looking for if you want to take a screen shore right down the title, so that goes through kind of all of the processes and things like that. Okay, um, so pros Cons of a CF. Uh, so you get a long term block to plan your research. Build your CB. Think about PhD grants if that's what you want. Um, if you do in a CF, you get slightly more choice of what clinical posts you get because your T P. D kind of picks them out for you. Um, you can get some time with no one calls, which is good for kind of recovery from some difficult jobs you might have had. And there's no formal requirements for output, so you don't have to publish Ex wife said things or do exercise at conferences. And so it's not super pressurized. However, it might be a pre defined theme that you're not interested in, and you can be behind your peers clinically, obviously, because you're taking that time out. Okay, so I'll just talk about PhDs very briefly. Um, some PhDs you don't need an ACDF to apply for them. I'm sure some of the people listening here we'll do a PhD whether or not you have in a CF and and the key thing to think about for PhDs. You want to think about where you're getting your funding from, because unless you get a funded post, you'll be taking a significant hit from your NHS salary. And there are kind of three key funders in the UK who funds medical PhDs. So they are N I h r m r c and welcome. Although welcome is, I think, cutting their scheme. But the first two are kind of themes differently. So MRC do kind of more bioscience, PhDs, NIH are the kind of varies I've listed there. So, social care, public health, data science. Um, and it's extremely competitive. Very grueling interview. Very difficult to get these posts. Um and, um so if you're thinking about it, you can also have a look at kind of charity funded PhDs. Um, so some of those kind of specific trusts have their own charities through which they grant research funding. So, for example, I'm at bars and they have their own charity at the moment, which offers pee PhDs. And then there will be specific charities linked to particular rare diseases. Um, so if you're interested in cardiology, I think the British Heart Foundation of PhDs for doctors, Um, so you just need to kind of do your research and think about it and kind of the earlier in advance, You think about it Then you can start to think about what your question would be, what your supervisor is, what setting. So which hospital, which universities? And you're looking at something novel and what's the impact of it going to be, Um, and those are the kind of domains that will be assessed through your application. Um And so, for example, in terms of supervisors, they will want to see that your supervisor has the specific expertise to supervise you in whatever question it is. They have a formal record of output because they're also trying to protect you from having someone who's not suitable to supervise you. And then all of those things you go through to get your PhD and then most people take it as kind of three years out of training. Um, so if you're thinking, I might want to do research. But maybe in a CF is a bit too early coming around in terms of applications, you can try and build your CV and maybe think about a PhD later on, okay? And so now I'm going to talk about kind of the informal pathway to getting research experience, and this is kind of the main way in which I got research experience, um, through my career. And it's all about the kind of difficult thing we always want to do, which is how to find experience. Who do I speak to, um, doing it in your spare time? A lot of the time, which can be a bit unrewarding. But if you kind of hustle and get through it, it can be beneficial. Um, so I've worked with three different research groups, and these are the three ways in which I found them basically and started working with them. Um, so the first one, I asked a friend who was very involved in research much more than I was, and she was at my levels. She wasn't like someone senior. And that meant that she was very approachable and realistic as well. And the second time, and I'll talk about these opportunities in the next slide. A second when I saw an advertise on social media, it does happen. Um, and the third one was someone I met through kind of work. Um, So, um, I've worked with a group at King's looking at research in biliary atresia and that included getting involved in running clinical study visits clinical for a clinical trial. And as I said, my friend was very involved in research. He thought about it much earlier than I was, and she knew this opportunity was going and needed someone to help. I didn't need to have any research experience. I just needed to be willing to spend the time. So if you're thinking I want to get research, um, often your peers might be the best place to go to first because they're going to be much more trustworthy about what's a good opportunity, what isn't than some consultant who, uh, might want you to do sort of some of the difficult work that might not reward you for what you've done. Uh, the second one. Yeah, it was a public health team at UCL, and they needed someone to finish the systematic review, which had been going on for years and years and just getting stuck. And again, they didn't need anyone with particular research experience. They just needed someone who would be willing to sit down and do the work. I responded to a Facebook advert that asked to apply by text, and I said, Do you want me to send my CV. He said, No, I just want someone who's willing to do the work. So, um, I think Twitter is quite a good place to see adverts these days as well as some Facebook group. So that is another option. Um, and finally, I've been working with a pick a team again at King's, and I did my f to taste a week in Picchu because it's an area I'm interested in. And I just happened to get talking to the consultants, and he needed someone to write a review. And I offered to do it. Um, and the first draft I wrote was actually pretty rubbish, but he could see that I was willing to spend the time. Um, I didn't particularly need any expertise in the area at all, and I didn't have it. But just as long as you can show your hardworking he was willing to work with me again. Um, so it doesn't have to be super difficult for all of these things. I don't think I particularly needed any prior experience in order to get them, So I hope this makes you feel that research can be accessible even if you don't already have any, um, and then just some other ideas about how you can kind of get experience. Um, even if you feel you don't have the opportunity, So we all have to do audit an F one F two. You have to do an audit or accu I pee and I would just kind of encourage you to use these opportunities where you're doing work anyway to try and think what's the most I can get out of it. So if you register your audit with your hospital trust, then it's eligible to be submitted to a conference. And then if you submit it to a conference, that abstract can potentially be published. And then you can use that as evidence from when you're applying for some other opportunity. Um, and an audit doesn't have to be kind of large in scale in order to be interesting. So, for example, and there was a trial that came out last year, which was called the Cap It Trial, which was looking at prescribing of antibiotics and Children with community acquired pneumonia. And essentially, it said that, um in Children who are prescribed shorter courses of antibiotics had the same kind of re admission outcomes as Children provide prescribed longer courses of antibiotics. So we theoretically might be unnecessarily prescribing long courses of antibiotics rather than shorter ones. I was quite interested in this, so I did an audit at my hospital trust looking at sort of all the Children in a couple of months have been prescribed antibiotics for community acquired pneumonia. We only got 30 Children. It was quite interesting. It was quite neat. We found that we were massively over prescribing antibiotics. People were getting it, even if there were no X ray changes. So that was quite a small audit. But it was topical. Um, and it was also quite easy to do. So if you're doing the work for an audit or Accu I pee and foundation, I would encourage you think about how can I use this? How can I push this this little bit further, submit it to a conference, and then I've got that on my see Be another thing is, you might feel, um, I don't have access to patients. I don't know how I would do research on patients, but another thing is that your peers so the foundation doctors, you work with other doctors. Other medical professionals you work with are an important cohort. Um, and medical. There's so many medical education journals out there. Um, so as an example, as Abby said, I'm a member of pets IgG, which is the pediatric Educators Committee. It's a really good group. I encourage you to look it up, and and And I was told when I joined that I should look at because I was a foundation rep that I should look up kind of. What? The priorities for F one F two s. I did a PSA survey of F one F two s across, You know, all different Diener ease in the UK. I just sent it out to kind of foundation school administrators, and I registered it, so that meant it was eligible to be published. And then I just turned that one piece of work, Um, which I had to do any way into something that I could potentially publish. So if you're having to do work and we all have to do kind of stupid pieces of work for various things that we do in our spare time, try and think. How can I make this as beneficial as possible in terms of boosting. You know, my CV research. How can I make my time count? Double if that kind of makes sense. Um, and then, you know, there's so many conferences you can apply to. So every Dina, we will have its own kind of research showcase area. So this is the London School of Pediatrics. They have a conference every year. I don't think you need to come from London to present there. Obviously, many of you are presenting here today, and the process I've seen are really, really good, so well done. Um and then just one other thing I'll briefly mention all of you have foundation doctors consider applying for this prize. Um, so the ercp ch conference every year, uh, recruit foundation doctors from all of the different sceneries in the UK. Um, who can win a prize and essentially attend one of the days of the conference for free? If you're interested in here, I'm sure you've got a great chance. So just keep an eye out in your delivery. They should advertise this, uh, later this year, and then I'll just talk about kind of in between. So if you're hearing the things I've said so far, and you're thinking that's great, but I maybe want a kind of formal structure. And how do I get even more experience? I'll just talk about some of the areas that you can do. Um, so, uh, many of us are thinking about F threes. And if you're thinking about an F three, um, you could consider doing a masters in pediatrics or PG set. And many of these kind of degrees will include some component of research. And importantly, you'll get the support and training in order to do that as well. Um, so one of them I've seen online is the U. C L Masters in pediatrics. Um, and it looks fantastic. I would personally love to do it. They have kind of five different tracks. Um, so you can choose something relevant to your interest. There's loads of different modules. So if you're thinking about an F three, you could always register, sign up for it funded through local ones. Um, get some research experience, educational experience. Um, it's something to think about. Um, if a master's is not for you and Imperial do the kind of the same thing, but they allow you to start with a P G set so you can do it part time. And I know some people who have done ST one s t two and even sometimes foundation years. And then you get the time in which you need to do the mandatory components as study leave. So it is possible, um, and then one which is really exciting, which has just started up this year, is run by, um, um where I am at the moment. And if you've ever heard of don't forget the bubbles, which is a really excellent pediatric website, and they run this master's and it's all designed to be kind of part time online only. And so it's really accessible for working professionals. And it's aimed not just at doctors, but it's the whole mg t. Um, and it's run by some of the amazing Yeah, some of the most amazing people from Don't forget the bubbles. So if you're thinking I'd like to do something about like this, but I really don't have the time, have a look at their masters. It looks really great. Um, and then just some other things to think about So there's something called the associate Pee I scheme, which gets kind of junior doctors who don't have funded research positions to get involved in the running of clinical trials. Um, so you just need to be kind of based on the site and be able to run the admin of the trial supervised by a senior person at that site, Um, for at least six months. Um, and I think it's a really great opportunity to get some leadership and management experience in research. Um, and then you'll see kind of across the whole of the UK There are kind of audit groups which kind of across different areas. And so there's one called neo trips that, um, uh publishes kind of neonatal audits. And it's, uh, recruits people from lots of different sites to collect the same data. And then you have a large cohort of patients and really interesting results. So, for example, um, they just ran one on murmurs on the post natal wards and got kind of about 300 patients with murmurs identified from about 20 different hospital sites and reach do kind of the same sort of thing, but not just in the inmates, um, for older Children as well. Okay, so I'll just say my top tips overall. So even if you hate research, all of us have to incorporate it in our pediatric careers. At some point, you will be asked to do a journal club, and you'll have to do those domains on kaizen when you start training. Um, so it's just worse that we're thinking about how you can take those boxes. Um, at the moment, you guys are in the foundation, so most of the kind of research you'll have to do is probably going to be out of hours because you're doing full time clinical jobs. So if you're wanting to start, think about the kind of research that you could do that plays, too. That fact. So things like reviews you can do in your evening. You don't need to be in the hospital. You don't need to have access to patient data. You can serve a your peers because you have easy access to them. Play to your strengths. Um, lots of people feel research is inaccessible, but in my experience, you don't need for most of the things that I've got. Um, you don't need to have prior experience in order to start. If you're just willing to work hard, people will see that and then they will give you more opportunities. And certainly, if I was recruiting someone for a project, that would be more important for me. Um, make the most of every opportunity and try and push it to the finish. So if you've done that audit, really think about how can I publish it? How can I get the credit for the work that I've done? Not just for my portfolio, but for my CV, Um, and the last thing which is very important and research can be really draining. As I said, lots of it is done kind of in your spare time, so protect your mental health first. If you think you're working too hard, just stop. All of it can wait. Protect yourself first and that's it. Really? Any questions? Thank you so much, and that was a really useful talk, and I'm sure everyone will agree. It's really useful. Are stage of training to start thinking about these things, if that's what we're interested in. We've got a question at the moment in the chat, which is just. Do you think there's any options to get any masters funded by a trust if you've got a clinical or clinical or teaching fellow job there? And is it achievable to do a fellowship job as well as a PG sir and a master's at the same time? Um so good question. Um, it's great that you're thinking about it and some. So if you're looking at F three or clinical fellow post, some of them will include some components of doing a masters or a PG set as part of the job advert. So make sure you look out for those projects. They might more often be described as a clinical research fellow, then just a clinical fellow. And if there's a clinical teaching fellow post often they will include, like a PG set of, um, education. Um, so you just need to kind of do your research. I think some trusts might fund masters, but in my experience it's more often for like permanent staff members, not for junior doctors, which sucks a bit, so just, um, it varies too much, but in terms of it being achievable to do those things, um, you know yourself best, but it's I think it is possible to do. And if it's something like PG, so you can always start with the PD search and then expand two masters if you want. So someone asked as well, Can you do a master's during the academic clinical fellowship? So all different universities differ? So, um, some academic clinical fellowships will include funding for a master's or a PG cert. So it Bart's where I am. They include funding for a PG set, and it has to be the PG sets, um, at my university. So it has to be a specific 11 of my friends is in Oxford, and she's got a masters funded as well, so it just varies by the different A C s. But it is possible, Um, someone has asked, Are all a cf jobs research based or their options for teaching based ones instead? Um, most of the what pretty much all the ones I can think of are meant to be research based, but that doesn't mean that you can't do kind of a medical education research project as part of it. Um, but I think they are more than meant, but for AFP, meant to be research themed. Okay, Perfect. That's great. I don't think we've got any more questions coming through at the moment and we're on our break now for the next 10 minutes, So feel free to go stretch your legs. Have a walk around. I know that sometimes these computer conferences can be a bit taxing. So what we'll do is if we have a break now for 10 minutes and then we'll come back and we've got some great talks with our See PCH and you caps. But I'll be talking about more of the application based things interviews and careers and exams as well. So thanks very much, please make sure to fill out the questionnaire if you're not already are pre conference questionnaire, remember that our poster halls opening for viewing throughout this time as well, thanks very much.