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just give it a few minutes for people to come in. Yeah, that's fine. Just let me know when you want me to start. Okay? So I'm hoping that people are ready to make a star on. Essentially, My name is Chloe. Um, I'm a CT to in psychiatry in the West Midlands on, but the mind The BLEEP team suggested maybe a webinar on applying to psychiatry on what it's like being a core training in psychiatry. A swell. And that happened my email on the first slide on the last light. So if you think of any questions and you don't get a chance to ask them or anything, just feel free to send me an email, and we can kind of discuss them. Uh, if there's any questions during the talk, like, I don't have access to the chat or anything, so maybe just pop them in, and then we can look at all the questions at the end. So there's a couple of different kind of myths off psychiatry. I would say, um and these are things that I heard a lot off before I actually went into psychiatry, and some of them I still hear even when I'm in it. So there's this kind of thought that the patients that dangerous because you hear about psychiatric patients who might end up being involved in crime or you might hear about attacks on psychiatric wards. And some people feel that psychiatric patients don't get better. Um, so it's quite important to remember that most branches off medicine do you have chronic illnesses within them on by psychiatry is no different to that. So there are patients who have chronic illnesses, but they're also patients who you can help to get better. And they may never see a mental health professional again. Um, sometimes people feel like psychiatrists only deal with medications s. So that's something you hear more when you're actually working in psychiatry and cause we have a very big MDT on. Do they have other roles as well? But it's important to remember that that the psychiatrist you can sit anywhere on the spectrum of the Biopsychosocial model and you can adapt you approach depending on the patient that's in front of you on does the opposite thing, where people outside of psychiatry feel that there's no medicine involved in it on. But that's one of the big things that I was worried about when I was applying, because I didn't want to lose my medical knowledge, because I feel like you go to medical school and you work so hard to get your degree and then you end up leaving some of that behind. So I think generally, when you start working in psychiatry, you realize that there is definitely medicine within it on. Even though you're treating the mental illness is the priority on that's what you're kind of specializing in. There's still definitely a lot off medicine, and you still need to have that medical background on then. Some people feel that nothing really happens in psychiatry, so they might, um, have a placement at med school on D. Actually, they go to a psychiatric clinic on DNA of the patients turn up or the patients don't want to speak to them, so it feels like nothing actually happens. But psychiatry can a very broad specialty. So there are some rules in psychiatry where I would say things are more slow paced, so it could be like a community clinic. Court could be a rehab ward and things are very more chronic on slow there. But you can also be a the opposite end of psychiatry, where you're in an acute environment. So you might be in a liaison service or you might be working on acute ward and you're managing people who are very unwell on. Their situation's a very acute, so there's lots of things happening then, Um, I guess the way that I would kind of describes like a tree is you're combining your medical knowledge with your scientific background and your interpersonal skills. So you're using your background off physical health and you're combining that with the expertise that you're gaining in mental health to be able to create really change in people's lives. And so what is? I'll tell you a little bit about my experience off core training and psychiatry and the application process on then I've left quite a lot of time for questions because that's usually something that's quite helpful, I think for these things. And so this is my current kind of work schedule. Um, so on Monday morning, I've seen my psychotherapy patient, and so that's part off. Core training is you have to see at least two second therapy cases so you do a long pace on a short case, and so I'm kind of 2000 away through doing my long case of psychotherapy, which means that I meet with my patient, who I selected for the therapy every week on DWI meat for 50 minutes on D. We do psychodynamic as the modality, so essentially we talk about anything that she wants to talk about on. Then I do the kind of stereotypical for Indian thing of trying to make connections of what she's talking about. From that, she gains a deeper understanding off her kind of issues in life. So her formal diagnosis is, um, PTSD on depression. But actually, throughout the therapy, we've spoken about a lot of other things. Aside from her mental illness on what's really nice is even that the session is only 50 minutes. I actually get the whole morning dedicated to that, so I have time to go and set up the room and time to actually sit with patient and do the therapy on. Then I have time to sit and document and reflect on it because after you have seen the patient, you need time to think about what's happened in the session and try and make some of those interpretations and see if there's any things that are coming up throughout the sessions. Then in the afternoon, I go to my ward s. So I'm printing on a learning disability. Posed S I go to Brooklyn's hospital in Birmingham on, but I just cover if there's any jobs that need doing so, for example, things that I tend to deal with the patients physical health. So if there's any concerns about that, physical health might be asked to go and see someone I might be asked to do some tribunals or tribunal reports. Um, my best to attends, um, formulation meetings on then Tuesday is a very similar thing. So Tuesday I just I'm dedicated to the ward all day to deal with any of those tasks if we have, like an MD t to discuss somebody or if we have, um, a treatment review meeting as well. So there's lots of different things on. But there's time to kind of work on your portfolio. Make sure that you're keeping up with assessments and reflections, and if there's any exams coming up like us up with my second paper during this job, so I used some of that time to do some revision as well. Um, so Wednesdays, because I'm on a split post Wednesday is my community day. So Wednesday morning we haven't MG T, which is scheduled for the whole morning but usually finishes after a now hour to an hour and a half. So I usually get some time just to catch up on abdomen for my community patients on. Then I run a clinic in the afternoon, Um, generally the clinics very depending on what post urine. And so at the moment, I would say I don't seem or than like five or six patients in an afternoon. And things are a bit different other moment because it's coronavirus. So there's a lot more like Microsoft teams meetings or phone calls that I imagine that's similar. Cost. Lots of specialties. Uh, then Thursdays we have the MRI. See psych, deny me teaching. So this is put on by the West Midlands Diener E. On Do. It's all of Thursday morning on, but it's basically a couple of hours where they'll teach you about top. It's that link directly to the membership exam, so it's really helpful to give you some more prepped for fuel planning on sitting them. And then in the afternoon, I just have a session. Teo, cover the woods or catch up on any at men that I might have to do that haven't finished from Wednesday and then Fridays. Ah, ward round in morning. Um, and then in the afternoon, I have supervision with my clinical supervisor. So every psych training should have an hour of supervision each week on bats where they sit down with their supervisor and talk about anything that they want to talk about. Really? So I use it in, make sure if I need any assessments in my portfolio. We get them done in that time. Um, I might talk about any particularly difficult in interruptions I've had with members of the MG T or any patients who were more challenging. And I might talk about like if I don't know what to do for a patient's plan. Um, like, if I saw somebody in clinic and I wasn't sure where to go next with them, I might discuss that. And then I also have supervision with these psychotherapy tutor. So that's where I discussed the content off the session that I had on the Monday on. But I speak to them about the different themes that are coming up in the different reactions on Do you have supervision with the tutor, but you also have other core training is there on. But they kind of give you ideas about what's happening with the patient, and they help guide you through the therapy. And then after that, we have a balance group, um, which some people might have heard of already. So it's a reflective practice group where you would normally talk about difficult interactions with patients. Um, always stuff on, General, you can talk. It's kind of like a debrief situation. You could talk about anything that you want to, but most of the traditional balance groups you discuss a case. So, uh, if there was a patient who had seen and I had found that that patient made me particularly angry, I might discuss that case for 20 minutes like present it and then the balance group would talk about the case for 20 minutes. Without my involvements, I would just be observing the group on. Then I would be invited back in to rejoin the discussion on Do See what other things came out, too? That because often if you have a strong reaction to a patient, it's to do with some underlying, like psychodynamic interaction that's happening between the two of you, so it can be quite helpful to bring pace. Is that a more stressful there? Okay, so with the application, imagine, quite a lot of the questions are around the Port Fogo. So this is just the way that I kind of did it. So I tried to gather things When I was in medical school, I tried to gather really generic things. Um, I thought that I wanted to do psychiatry, but I wanted to keep my options open. So I tried to make sure that I did a lot to do with medical education. Um, I did attend like her psychiatry summer school as well, but generally I just tried to build things up slowly over the years, specially because I feel like at medical school, the it's already quite a big asked a Have somebody dedicate that much time on also to work so intensely towards the degree that you can't be expected to do all of these massive achievements. So I would say try and build slowly over the years on. But if you know that you're interested in a particular specialty, then it may be helpful to look through the application at the time to see if there are any points that you can only get when you're an undergraduate. Um, because once you have qualified, there'll be some opportunities that are gone. So an example is like interconnecting, so you might be undecided about whether you want to interplay tiff. You have the option with your degree on, but, um, it may be that you get a few points for doing that when you come to applications, but you wouldn't know it unless you checked once. Honestly, you've graduated. You don't have the opportunity anymore. As like I treat do publish a person's best vacation. Onda. That is what I based my portfolio. So it had different sections on, but that's how a structured the contents on I I kind of went through and made sure that I had something for all of those sections. To try and score as many points is I could on D when I was in foundation training and I also had an F three job. Is a clinical teaching fellow a swell? I tried to make sure that I did lots of and like conferences and course is to try and up my points because I was quite conscious of the fact that hadn't done that much when I was in medical school. And the real College of psychiatrists have some really good birth stories for their courses and conferences, but they also have loads of prizes. Um, and a lot of the prizes are for medical students on some of them include medical students on foundation doctors. So it's actually quite a small group of people going for the price compared to you. Prizes are open to all great and off psychiatry and medical school. So I would say Definitely check those out and there's lots of different faculties on the website and a lot of them offer a prize each so there's lots of different opportunities and to try and get a prize on your CV, which would count for a couple of points and so with the application process. So I'm talking more about when I applied because that was my experience off. It on do things do change over the years, and I think coronavirus has had an impact on the interview process. Um, so generally, with psychiatry, it's similar to the other specialties and that you apply on Oriole on. But once you've applied on Oriole, you'll get long listed on D because historically, psychiatry has been harder to fill. Most people, when I was applying, made it to the long listings stage, so they were able to go to the M S R A. Um so everyone sits the M S r A and you if you apply around like October time, you normally sit the exam around December January time. Um, and there's lots of online resource is that you can use to help prepare you for the exam so you can get, like, question banks that you can practice to try and help with your school. Um, once you have sat that at the time that I was applying, um, and they said the top 10% of psychiatry applicants. So the people who have the highest schools were able to bypass the interview process on, but I would I think that it's still the case at the moment But I wouldn't rely on that because as psychiatry is becoming more popular, they may take that option away. But at the moment, I think it still stands that the top 10% get to bypass that into you, and they get their top choice a job as well. So if you do go to interview and so you get short listed, you are invited to interview, which used to be, at least when I when I did it. It wasn't that long ago was only a few years ago, but they interviewed in two centers, one in Manchester on one in class go. So I attended the interview in Manchester on it had two stations. One of them was a clinical scenario on one of them was about the portfolio. So in the clinical scenario, uh, there's generally more common histories that tend to come up. So the one that I was told comes up very often is your an F. Y. Two on D at patient has turned up to the pre op assessment, like the day of the surgery on Do they've turned up in there clearly intoxicated on the anus. Testes said that they can't have the surgery because they are like too intoxicated with alcohol on Duodenoscope test has very kindly left the job to you to go and tell them that their surgery can't go ahead. And so the station is all around you communicating to the patient that they can't have their surgery. And the one that I had Waas, a 15 year old boy, had been brought to any because he had taken an overdose, um, due to bullying from people at school. So it was around, um, taking a bit of a history and getting some risk assessment completed for him on Ben. We were asked to kind of sit back, talk about some of the main points of the case, but also reflect on how we felt the case when and how the interruption went. Um and then the portfolio station is You sit with a panel of I had two people on, but you are just ask questions. Really. It's all about how you can show you meet the person's best specifications and how you can show that you are going to not drop out off the psychiatry program and how you're dedicated. Teo the specialty. Um, I have my portfolio here, which I actually looked up since I apply it. But this gives you an idea off This sort of stuff that I had in on day. I'm happy. Like if people have any questions about what's in it, I'm happy to give you that after and I would say generally, I think I've got 39 out of 40 on the Port Phono station to give you an idea. I think I dropped one point because, uh, one of the sections is around volunteering on. But I haven't done any volunteering for quite a few years when I applied to psychiatry and and then once you've done your interview, you then have your emissary school and your interview school combined, and that gives your overall ranking on. Then it's similar to any other specialty where you've ranch your posts on depending on where you rank will decide what post you get. So this is the kind of psychiatry training pathway. Um, I think what I didn't realize until I started were black, working in psychiatry with how broad psychiatry actually is. Um, so you have your degree and your foundation training, and then you do call training on D in cold training, you have certain jobs that you have to do, like the trust has to provide you with certain training rotations. So you have to do one year of General Adul, which is normally split into six months inpatient or six months outpatient. And then you have to do a developmental post, which is either a learning disability post or comes post. And that's six months is well. And then you have to do on older persons mental health post that again is six months, and then you're supposed to have two posts, which are called like specialties posts. So the idea is that these posts is supposed to give you an experience of other subspecialties of psychiatry that you may know, have really know much about or experienced much off up to that point. And it's supposed to try and help you decide what higher training pathway you want to apply, too. So, for example, you might have placements in liaison psychiatry, neuro psychiatry, perinatal psychiatry's like therapy. Um, forensics. This kind of these other areas, which you kind of have heard or we haven't really like it is unlikely to have spare experience that much off. So the higher training it says, like three years in the picture. But that comes with a little caveat off. Three years is the shortest. So if you wanted to do General Adult, for example, you could do general little higher training in three years. And you could be a consultant. Um, so it would only take you six years to do call training and higher training. And if you wanted Teo, do something different. So if you wanted Teo do medical psychotherapy, for example, that training program is a bit longer. Um, so I think that one is more like four years on. The good thing about psychiatry is you can really mix and match, so if you really like psychotherapy, but you also really like General Adul, you can do both of those things and you'll train for your higher training and which again would add on more times you'd probably be looking more like five years for your higher training, and that you can combine lots of different specialty is so you can combine L. D. In front combine Um, general adult older. It'll you can do general adult, and then you can get accreditations in addiction, psychiatry or liaison, psychiatry or perinatal. There's a lease kind of psychiatry has so many broad things in higher training, like there's lots of different subspecialties that you can kind of look at. So I would say with psychiatry like It's I think some people don't consider it because they feel like it's not for them but because psychiatry is such a broad specialty, it's really worth having a look at what their is because some of the subspecialties are very biological. So something that neuro psychology, for example, is very biological. But some of them are very psychological, like medical psychotherapy, but you wouldn't really deal with medications or physical health at all. So it's really broad, depending on what type of clinician you like being, Uh, so why choose psychiatry? Well, the's a couple of things that I kind of the wart off, and so the good opportunities in psychiatry so you have time to speak to your patients. It's a specialty where generally you don't feel rushed when you're with people. I think because you're managing people's mental health and emotions services kind of recognize that you need more time with those people. Um, so for example, like if you were seeing somebody for the first time, you would be expected to spend an hour with that person on to go through their psychiatric history and then mental stay and the risk. And I think sometimes the experiences at medical school don't really reflect what working in psychiatry is like because you have they they have to assess your skills in psychiatry and, you know they choose to do it in an Oscar where you might get 10 or 15 minutes to do those things, whereas in actual clinical practice you get a lot more time and you're part of a really wide MDT, which is nice because you can learn from other specialties, but also you have lots of support. So you never really expected to make a decision about somebody's life by yourself, like you would normally consult with MG t, which can be quite helpful because one of the challenges is managing risk in psychiatry on. But if you have an MD who are good and they're supportive, you're able to manage that risk more easily because you're sharing and you're discussing. That decision is agreed and the other already mentioned it is a very, very droll Um, I feel like even my week. My kind of day to day work is quite varied, and but there's lots of some specialties, a swell, which suits lots of different kind of personalities. And from what people want to get out of work, I'd say it's a very stimulating, um, specialty. Like it. I remember when I was a foundation doctor, I would see like I would be clocking people on, but it was very much like X plus y equals set, and you would follow that same pattern for every person on. And even the psychiatry does have some pattern. So, for example, somebody comes in with psychosis on, but you're very likely to give them an antipsychotic. Um, Andi. They should really improve. With that. There's also more complex things where you do have to think more on do it kind of gives you more stimulation in your everyday work, and I would say this stigma around mental illness has got better over the years. But when you're actually working in the specialty, it gives you a chance to really try and tackle that from a kind of working with in it on. There's lots of kind of people who work in mental health. You also work to try and reduce stigma around on that, I would say there is a good work, life balance, um, maybe know as good as if you didn't work in in the medical profession. But it's better, in my experience, than some of the other specialties that I worked in when I was a foundation doctor. And the advice that I always give to people is when you are thinking about a specialty, really see how the consultants are, because you will be doing what they're doing for a very long time on. But, um, if they are, you know, as a consultant, if they're regularly coming in to do like a war drowned on a Saturday, you have to think like, Well, I still want to do that when I'm 50 or 60 because realistically, you probably will still be working at that age. Um, challenges wise then maybe some parts of your medical knowledge that you don't use as much. But I would just kind of advise a bit of caution when thinking that because there's lots of specialties where you wouldn't use certain parts of your medical knowledge. Something like, uh, any is probably great or GPT is great because you see lots of different things, so you need to really keep on top of lots of your knowledge. But if you are going to be like a really specialist surgeon or you choose like a certain medical speciality, then then maybe areas off your medical knowledge that you don't use a smudge. And just as you would if you decided to specialize in psychiatry and it can be emotionally challenging, I wouldn't say draining is the right word. I think challenging is probably the best way to describe it. Um, I would say there are times where you see people on, but they are in distress or they're having a really difficult time on. Do you have to be able, Teo Be okay with that on. Do you have to be able to, um, you know, potentially see somebody who's telling you about how they really want to kill themselves on? Then you have to be able to go and see the next person, whatever. They're kind of presenting problem. Maybe, but I think the positive thing is that everyone acknowledges that psychiatry convey emotional challenging. So you have the supervision with your consultant. You have supervision with psychotherapeutic Utah. You have the balance group, and the core training is like as a whole. I would say the all of the experiences that I've had, everyone has been very supportive of one another because they know what it's like to be a training in psychiatry on they know that you can see cases that arm or kind of emotionally difficult. Um, what I found waas. I see people who are more emotionally distressed in psychiatry, but I actually feel better with it because I have more support than when I went in other specialties and I would see people in distress or I would see people dying on there wouldn't be anyone to talk to about that. And you would have to just kind of debrief with your health mates at the end of the day because there wasn't really any other outlet for it. Um, so that is pretty much all of the slides, Um, so I to make sure that we have lots of time for questions I've put up a couple of links like the Royal College did quite big campaign to try and get people to know more information about what it's like to work in psychiatry. So I felt a link to that you psychiatry campaign. Um, I've put a link to the person specifications in onto YouTube clip, which is part of the truth. Like actually campaign a swell? Um, yeah, I'm just trying to think of anything else. If you want to ask questions now, that's fine. Or if you want to email me, that's also fine. Thanks so much for that Khloe. And that was really informative and particular the beginning about the myths of psychiatry. And it was good for you to see what you guys doing a day after that. That would be really helpful for people thinking of applying. Um, I think what we'll do now just while we wait and see if anyone wants to pop questions in the child's old. Just ask you a few questions and then we can see, if any more rolling, if that's all right. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So what? Why did you Why do you think you picked this specialty? If you could think of a reason? Um, yes. Story of how I picked psychiatry is quite funny. Really? So, um, I was at secondary school. I found human behavior really interesting. And so I thought why? People have certain ways, Like, what's motivating their behavior And on DWI did a careers questioner Onda out of my top 10 jobs, I think six of thumb worth branches of psychiatry. Um, I think the top one waas uh, medicals like a therapist on day. And there was another one was like clinical psychology. A swell. Um, So I went to college on D. I did psychology, a level which I really enjoyed it on demand. I thought that being a clinical psychologist on day, I saw how difficult it was to become a clinical psychologist on, But I thought, I'll get a medical school and see if I like other specialties as well a psychiatry. And it was always everything was being compared to psychiatry for me on, But, um, it was always that I preferred psychiatry, and then I really enjoyed my foundation jobs like I loved my surgical job. I loved my medical job. I did a psychiatry job as well in foundation training on, but I also did a GP job which I thought would be the strong contender for the other competing option. That actually, I hated my GP job on, but I've found I didn't have enough time to speak to patients at all. So, um, I did my F three as the teaching fellow, and that was in psychiatry. So I worked on us, like unit for a year. A swell, um, on. Then I was. After doing that, I was really sure that that's what I wanted to do. Okay, It was in the college me Friday, right early on that. Yeah, I think I just I like human behavior. And then as I got older, I wanted to use I wanted to find a way to use science and talking to help people. Yeah, kind of flat fits with medicine. Okay, on D I know we did. You did touch on it, obviously, about the challenges. But I suppose is there anything personally you found quite challenging as you've been training in? And as you've been going through this whole process applying is there anything in particular that you found that stood out was particularly challenging? All right, there will be people who remind you off yourself. or they remind you of somebody you know on D That can be difficult, because you might find yourself acting in a certain way, and we don't realize that while you're doing it, but as you, um as you become more experienced in psychiatry, you actually become more understanding off of deeper psychological processes. So, for example, like you might meet somebody, um, that you really don't like and you don't know why, but you just don't like them on their does know. You're sort of person. You don't want anything to do with them on, but we might be. You know, like you meet a patient who really annoys you on. Um, before you act in psychiatry, you might be like, Oh, I really hate this patient. But I feel bad about that or whatever. Um And then when you work in psychiatry, you start talking about those things and you start to realize that it's okay to feel that way about a patient and the feelings that you have A because you are human and you're making a human connection with that patient on. But when you start to talk about it and undo it, you realize that you might not like that person, because off a psychodynamic process that's happening or because they remind you of somebody who maybe wasn't very, like, pleasant to you in the past or something. Um, but it's only like, as you become more experienced in psychiatry, that you start to realize those things. Yeah, that's really interesting to you, basically analyzing yourself a the same time. Yeah. Okay. On about about what? Have you found particularly enjoyable ways you've been going through a view is only thing that sort of really made you think. Wow, I've definitely tone of the right specialty. You know, I'm really enjoying that. Yeah, I think every day. Yeah. Yeah, it's good. I mean, may, um, the fact that I don't mind going to a set of night shift makes me feel like I made the right choice. Yeah, um, so, you know, like, I didn't really talk much about, um calls because I think uncles really, very depending where you are. But where I worked at moment, we were on average of one in three weekends on. Do we do, um, at least one long a week, and but it doesn't feel like what Look It's just enjoyable to actually see the patients and talk to them and on toe have those really challenging interactions with people. You know, that I really like going to see people who have you PT because they're so challenging on, like, a cycle dynamic level that I find it really interesting. But I know if you say you pd to somebody in any they would probably start crying. That's so well, that's really good. Or you say that you've give them felt that way. I'm sure you're going to persuade a lot of people from the vein, um, so obviously, because we've got a little bit of time I wondered if you might be able Teo, just give a couple of his arms of the things that were in your portfolio. I know you said that you were gonna you didn't really have time. That just a couple of examples might be good for people to hear. Yeah, um uh uh. So, um, so obviously it's common in your portfolio to start off with life, your degree and stuff like that. So I got all of those basic things in, uh and then I completed a postgraduate certificate in medical education in my s three. So that's in that, um that's quite 100 years low, because if you choose your jobs carefully, you can get that done. Did. So I had that 100% Sunday, which was good. Uh, yes. Then other things. So I put in a little bit about respect in. So I tried to get in some of my more interesting reflections. Um, I put in, you know, like journal hubs that had been quite interesting. Or, you know, like because I was I was working in psychiatry. At this point, I put in a tribunal report I've written and received really could see you back for some, like, assessments that had received really good feedback. It's sort of just kind of up to you what you put in there. And what sort of demonstrates that you're really interested in the specialty and have been doing work in the specialty? Yeah, and I think it's well like him. Yeah, I based it all on that person specifications in. So when you have the contents page, it's like reflective practice courses, clinical governance, post presentations, teaching activities outside medicine, like they're all in different headings. Um I went on a couple of courses, so I went on some courses that word linked to psychiatry of all on I went on some courses that were linked to psychiatry. And I've got points for both of them. Um, yeah. And like poster presentations and publications and stuff like that, Like, I didn't really have that many publications. Why doesn't have any publications when I applied? And But I tried to choose, like audits or quips or post presentations that link to psychiatry. Um, even though, like I did a couple of quick, in fact, a shin, I chose to put in, like the ones that were linked to psychiatry, because you are unlikely to be able to put everything in your portfolio. And you said you started were homeless around mid medical school time you said, Yeah. So at medical school, I did, um, kind of like a little bit of mentoring. So I helped students apply to medical schools that helped people with their personal statements on by helped with a couple of lectures for, like, a vision societies. Um, I did go to some, like psychiatry society events, but I didn't actually put those in my portfolio, and that's all. I really did it at medical school. I didn't really do much. Um, and then Oh, and I went to that one. Some school is well sorry I went to a psychiatrist. Summer school, too. You can. But then after that, it was just in foundation. I tried to make my quips linked to mental health on board. Then when I did my f three, that's when I did like the p g PSA on Gwent. Two more courses and stuff like that. Mike, I great. Well, we have we have got on the question now. Someone has just threw in and said, Would what would be the best way to get a taste of whether working psychiatry is for me do to the pandemic? I wasn't able to have any clinical experience. You're on my site. Create a shin. Yeah, I think this is already good point, because, um, working in psychiatry is very different to being on placement or like even being on a taste a week is different toe actually working because, um, in a lot of specialties, you're used to the majority of patients really playing that patient role. So, you know, like doctor turns up on Doctor says Okay, I'm gonna take your history and the patient answers the questions, and then you say, Okay, I'm going to examine on the patient, lets you do what you need to do. And in psychiatry, some of the patients have lost that filter or they've lost the, like, mental ability to play that patient role. If that makes sense, so you might turn up on your site place, man, and go to the wards and say, Oh, is there a patient I can talk to and you get told to f off by every patient that you try and speak to. But when you're the doctor in psychiatry, it's very different, because now the patients have to speak to you when it when you're a student, you know, it's like, is it okay if I speak to you? Whereas when you're the doctor, somebody who would tell you to f off is probably they're against their will, um, which means that they have legal framework in place, and they know that they have to speak to the doctor if they're going to stand a chance of getting out of hospital. So when you are medic in psychiatry. You will gain a lot more experience of what it's actually like. So my advice would be Teo. Get a A foundation rotation that has, like I treat in it, because only after you've really worked in it as a junior doctor, will you have enough of a taste to really know if it's the you want up. Okay, right. Well, I think for now that's all the questions it seems like. Let me just check for sure. Yeah, I don't think there's any more of the monument. So I think Cowy said that it would be a cave and you guys emailed her. There was anything else that you don't forget to ask in the moment on. Don't forget also, to fill in your feedback, use the QR code on the screen and you guys will get a certificate of attendance. And you can, you know, add that to your portfolio cautery something you're interested in, and and I think that's that's everything, Clarice and thank you so much. It was a really interesting, really informative talk, and I think hopefully the people who are watching have gained a lot from it. Hopefully, hopefully they will decide they want to be psychiatrists. Yeah, we definitely We I would say psychiatry is becoming more popular. Like I think I looked at the ratio and it was 3.99, which is a lot higher than when I was in med school. But, um, we need good psychiatrists that we need people who are interested on passionate about mental health and helping people. Teo, have, you know, happy lives. And yeah, I think definitely we need people like that to apply. It's an ever expanding specialty is well, a moment, isn't it? So it's, you know, the need to get greater if anything, but what? What was that? You said the competitive racing was 2.9 now, Yes, 2.99. So if there's gonna, which is why I like the thing with bypass and stuff like that. That might change in the in the following years. If psychiatry continues to become more popular. Okay. Okay. Yes. So that's interesting to know is well, actually Okay, so we put we put on the feet back for for everyone, so I think we'll leave it there. So thanks so much away. Okay, Thanks very much. You