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Um We are now going to launch into our president's round table where we'll be answering your questions on leadership and we had over 100 questions, which was great. Um And to help me answer them, I'm going to invite five wonderful panelists to the stage. Um So Jeremy, a moving doctor Lamb and Dr Good Paul, if you could join me on the stage, Noite, that would be great. Uh Super and so welcome to the stage. It's so great to have you all here before we dive into questions. I'd love to do a quick round of introductions and here you are, what stage you're at and what organization you're a part of. Um I'll just start with who's next to my screen. So, and Stephen, that would be you first. Good afternoon, everyone. I'm Stephen and I'm currently an f to doctor uh in the east of England and I'm here to represent uh um s which is United International Medical Schools. Uh And I'm currently the outgoing Vicepresidente probably and I'll pass over to Angela. Hi, everyone. I'm Angela. I'm an incoming call, surgical trainee uh starting in London in October. Um And in terms of leadership. I am the National Director of Med Tech Foundation and the Asset Innovation Lead. Awesome. Thank you an Uber. To a, hi, I'm a, I'm going to my sixth year in Edinburgh. Um and I'm outgoing precedent for Edinburgh Student Surgical Society and student lead for store surge this year. Super on over to move in. Hi, everyone. Move in. I'll be starting my fifth year of doing medicine at Cardiff University. Uh I'm currently the vice president's um uh Vaske Easy, lovely and last but not least Jeremy. Hi, everyone. Good afternoon. My name is Jeremy. I'm moving to go into my sixth year in Newcastle University in September and outgoing precedent for a new customer Neurological Society as well as the Neurological as, as well as surgical Society. Awesome. Um Super. Thank you so much as you can tell there's a wealth of information and experience amongst these panelists on the stage. Um The aim of this panel is to inform, share and empower. Um So let's get started with some of the questions from you. Our lovely delegates. Um Please, do you get involved in the chat as well and as well have some time at the end to ask your questions. Um If we didn't cover anything during the panel and we've lined up a couple of polls as well, so that would be another way that you can get involved. And so as I said, there was loads of questions. Um I think we'll kick off maybe with you, Stephen. Um If I'd love it, if you could just share from your experience and what skills you think a good leader. So I think it's a, it's a very pertinent question um for the event, but I think the skills of a good leader usually Arav around being quite disciplined um being a really good communicator. Um And most of all, I think being uh someone who leads by example, uh because fundamentally, I think actions probably uh lead to more of a profound effect on on team members rather than probably ordering things around personally. Yeah, absolutely. We've heard a lot about all of those things that you mentioned the vial. Perfect today, Jeremy, I'd love you to maybe add a bit on that in terms of how do you develop some of those skills that you need to become a good leader? Uh I think one of the easiest ways to develop those skills actually observe how people leave. So no looking as a as a junior medical student, see how your previous precedent lead the society, you can even look at, you know how C E O S leads company because I think they're different skills and different things to learn from them, how they manage people, how they, how they manage kind of difficulties, how they, you know, work around the team and things like that. So I think it's quite useful to observe and learn from them and of course, they're also courses out there that kind of go through with you what you should on your sub skills that's necessary for a leader. But I think most important is just observe and then putting the practice don't have to be like a leader presidente of the society. You can really small groups and from there, you just work on towards bigger roles as a, as a way to practice your leadership skills in that sense. Yeah, I love it really helpful advice. Thank you. Um Angela, a question for you. Um Why is leadership so important for career development? There are just, you know, so many reasons why leadership is just so important, I guess you probably heard it all before, but a lot of the skills are really transferable. So, you know, organizational time management, communication skills all really, really useful, especially in sort of the hospital environment. When you're dealing with a lot of acute patient, you need to keep everyone in the loop, you need to get your job's done and you might have heard it from your seniors if you've been to the wards at all. But really your values as a junior, if you can keep on top of your tasks and communicate with them and tell them when things are going wrong. So all of these skills you develop as a leader and that really helps you, especially in the early part of your career. And then of course, when you go up the ladder, you sort of, you know, you gain the clinical knowledge is you go on. But what you develop as a leader is your ability to sort of see the bigger picture and see how things can actually change and what interventions you can make and know how to communicate with the right people to actually intervene and make those changes. And when you're doing your applications, when you're applying for lots of different things, whether you go into medicine or whether you decide to leave medicine, a lot of the questions about whether you're actually fit for the role are around how you tackle problems and how, what kinds of changes, whether and what good change you can bring to the department to make it slightly different, um, and improved. And I think as a leader, you really develop those skills. Um and it really makes you stand out when you're compared to a lot of other people who haven't necessarily been in those positions before. Thank you. Um And I suppose some people are maybe listening and watching today thinking I'm really busy, I'm trying to be a leader or I'm currently a leader. I have so much going on with hobbies and medicine. Um We got loads of questions on time management. So I'd like to do, have a little bit into that and a will maybe, um, start with you. Do you have any um, advice or can you share from your experience of how you balance your workload and your studies alongside being involved in a committee and having a position of leadership. Yeah, I think it's a really big issue and it's something that I always want to know the answer to. And I think the first thing is kind of figuring out that you won't get it right all the time and kind of accepting that it's a balancing act and you'll get better at it with time. Um But one of the best pieces of advice that I got related to time management is to be really clear on your priorities and be really clear on what's important to you. And, and that keeps evolving, that changes, for example, at the start of the year, your exams might not be your priority because they're quite a bit away. Um But to keep reevaluating that and adjusting how you do things accordingly. Um And again, it's, you know, it's a cliche things of learning to say no, which is very difficult. But I think I'd add to that learning to say no to things that you actually want to say yes to because you need to say no to things that you want to do to be able to do things that you want to do more. Um And it's not something you'll figure out immediately. It's, it's trial and error, but it's just always coming back to that and, and being willing to kind of re evaluate and change how you're doing things, I think. Yeah, I love that. That's really great advice. Like say no through that in the future that you have the time to say yes. Um Yeah, that's great. And Stephen, do you have anything to add to that in terms of how you balance and having such a busy schedule as well as, um, like being in a position of leadership? I, I think just carrying on from what he has said, um, it's a bit of a juggling act at times and uh being able to say no, is actually a very, very handy skill and something that probably medical students and doctors in general, we probably don't practice enough. Um, on top of that, you have to sometimes be really selective with what you choose. Um And you have to kind of understand what exactly is my motive of doing this and what do I stand to receive from it because whilst it's bad to kind of think that, you know, you should always receive something from, from being a part of something, but you need to have a motive behind it because if you don't have a motive behind it, then you may not necessarily be able to give your, you know, 100 and 50%. Um, but as I said, it all stems around what, what air said, which is being, you know, quite time efficient and, and being able to know as well. Yeah, absolutely. And even on this call right now, a lot of you're gonna balancing like one or two things to be here today. Um So, yeah, you're really busy people. You're definitely the best people to talk about time management as you're kind of living and balancing all these things at once and moving. You are obviously in a leadership position in office, keys age, huge organization. I can tell just from the amount of events you run on medal that you're really busy. And do you have any kind of helpful time management tips that you can share with people here? I think as like everyone's mentioned, um it's just you kind of learn as you go. Um So it's, you don't really start off knowing exactly how the time manage and at first, it can be really overwhelming. Uh what, what I found personally helpful is to kind of prioritize each um goal according to how urgent it is and how important it is. So maybe I think a very useful way is kind of making a list of the goals you want to achieve in that year if you're a leader, um and then prioritizing them either using something like a color coding system or something. Um What, whatever everyone fancies and then just kind of working through that list um as, as you go along along the timeline of um your organization. And I think um it's, it's important to consider what requires more attention. So spending more time on the more vital stuff, uh, and making sure you're not overwhelmed at the same time as well. And also it's very important, important, I think it's easy to get overwhelmed. So it's important to take appropriate breaks as well. Um, it's very easy for you just for the work to pylon. So maybe just figuring out a timetable or how many hours you want to spend a day and, uh, you know, it's, it's dependent on each individual's kind of preference. Um And you kind of learn and as you go, what you can kind of handle at a time as well. And what I found is, um it's important to kind of delegate work to different individuals instead of instead of overloading a few people with a lot of work where, where else it could just be a lot of people uh involved in it and then spreading out the work so that it's, it's less of a kind of burden on them. Um And, you know, it's, as I'm, as I said, everyone's mentioned as well. It's kind of trial and error to see what works um and see what that doesn't. Um You learn, you know, from your mistakes as well. So, um yeah, that's, that's what I can say. Uh Super so many Goldust tips in there. Thank you. Um I'm sure our delegates here have some helpful time management tips as well and if you wanna put them in the chat and any little nuggets of advice that you have and please do get involved in the conversation. Um I'm just gonna start a pool as well as I'd love to know which of these you find more difficult time management or people management. And we certainly have a lot of questions from all of you on both of those topics. Um So I'd be interested to hear what you have to say on that. Um So we're gonna move on now slightly to the theme of leadership and leadership style. Um A lot of the questions we had, again, we're about um imposter syndrome, confidence, how to kind of lead with authority and find the balance. Um And I'd love for you to kick us off on this topic. Um And just the simple question and how do you lead with confidence? Yeah. So, um I guess the question is really being asked and I'm sure goes through, it definitely goes through my mind that it definitely goes through a lot of other people that I've spoken to as well. It's really, how can I actually feel more confident whilst I'm leading? Um And like you said earlier, Victoria about how can I actually overcome my imposter syndrome. Um And what I found is that and first of all, I'd like to say that pretty much everyone does experience it. I've talked to, you know, high profile speakers at events and, you know, CEOS of organizations and they've all had an element of it. Or they, you know, as they've gone through their journeys, they haven't necessarily felt confident all the way and sometimes it can be a bit harmful to feel too confident as you go forward cause you don't really recognize the risks. So, feeling under confident isn't necessarily a bad thing. And my piece of advice when it comes to trying to overcome the imposter syndrome is very much about how can you change your mentality when it comes to feeling confident in how you feel about yourself. So people often feel like they are an imposter because you know, you don't, you don't feel like you belong in the position that you are in or perhaps you don't um uh deserve the opportunity that has been given to you. Um So like, you know, you get invited to sit at the adult table and you don't yet feel like you have the qualities to be able to do so. But the likely thing is is that you've probably been invited to sit there because someone has recognized your value and actually thinks that you deserve that place. And if you look back on yourself and you look at your whole journey up to where you are now, up until this opportunity, you probably works really, really hard to get to where you are and you probably still working really hard and looking to improve yourself. So I think once you sort of accept that and you look into yourself and you think actually, you know, I have worked really hard and actually, you know, some other people are seeing what maybe I don't see. Um, then you can become a little bit more confident with yourself and recognize your own value and, and with that, you'll be able to feel confident as you step up to the plate. And, you know, just to take a look at it from the other direction, there's always going to be someone who's more experience than you. There's always going to be someone who has so much more knowledge than you or is further along in the journey. Like we have um people that we model our behavior of for, for that reason because we think that they're in a better position than us. Um And I think that that's a completely normal and valid thing to do. And in fact, in order for us to keep moving forward, we have to stop these people. And I think what we have to stop doing is comparing us to them. They've had a completely different journey to us. They might be the same age and they might be younger, but they've had a completely different journey and you will have your own experiences. They, they might turn around to you and say, oh, actually you might have more experience them in certain area. So instead of looking at as a sort of barrier or a comparison, I think looking at it as a learning opportunity actually help to change that mentality to help you address it in a more positive way. Uh And with that, hopefully you can, you can feel a bit more confident. Yeah, such a great advice. Thank you. Sometimes easier said than done to kind of change the mentality and the I love that and it feeds into what Jeremy was saying earlier as well as good leaders and spend a lot of time listening and watching others. Um and just kind of learning on the job, Jeremy actually love to go back to you. Um How do you find the balance between being confident as a leader but still being approachable to those that you're leading? Thank you. And I think first and foremost is kind of present yourself. I mean, the way you present yourself should be how tribute away that people find most comfortable. And also you can think about how you present yourself. So if you think that the way you talk, the way you act is something that you feel that if someone else is doing it, you feel it's a bit um overconfident of too much, then you kind of kind of pull it back a little bit. So you have to put yourself in the shoes of your committee members or other members, see how you present yourself. And that gives you a good gauge as well. And I think one of the most important thing that I've learned is kind of, you know, just because your leader doesn't mean that you don't do any, you don't do a lot of groundwork. So, you know, as a leader, I still spend time doing groundwork with my committee members, you know, planning stuff or even on the day itself, just run, helping them to run certain things as well. So not just because the leader does not mean that you have, you, you don't have to do the menial task and stuff like that. So I think for me, it's kind of being there with the team and always having open dialogue, everyone giving everyone opportunity to ask you questions or just approaching them to have a chat, you know, every every month. Also how they, how are they finding the work, how they're finding your school and everything that so I think it's quite useful to kind of make sure there's open dialogue between yourself and the committee members to make things more comfortable. I think that's the way to make um to make yourself seem more approachable as well. And just, you know, just have a handle on how confident you are because you can be, it's very easy to go into overconfident stage where you work so hard for many years and you find a precedent and you're like, yes, I'm finding precedent, you know, I can do this. This is, is this, but you forgot that there are people out there who was always helping you to get you to where you are and you should always kind of help people along the way as well. So I think that's my tip on how to balance between over competing, confidence in being approachable as well. Yeah, I love it. That was more than just one tip that was loads in there that you said. Um That was really great. Thank you so much for sharing that. Um Stephen already in terms of what sort of leadership style do you have and why do you find that effective for your organization? So I'm very, um I suppose the way that I would describe my leadership skills or my management would be very proactive. Um Our organization is maybe a little bit different to others um in the sense that um myself, my, my co vicepresidente and my presidente as well, um We were often in different teams, whatsapp groups. Um And we were also observing from a distance, but when we felt that we needed to, you know, intervene or potentially guide, um that's when we stepped up, but also the main focus of being in these um these team groups was to see, uh you know, how, how things are going, the direction that things are going, progress, ideas. Because I suppose what we had was we had a big variety in, in, in students, we had students from first year or two final year. Um And everyone has different experiences, everyone has different views and perspectives. Um So for us I suppose um it really paid to be really proactive to try and guide. Um because like Jeremy saying, um you know, there are medical students before us who helped us um and year by year you get more senior and uh you know, before you know, it's your time to start guiding and sharing tips and pearls um two younger students. So yeah, that's my management skill. I'm also very um you could say demanding in, in a way as well. I we'd like to have time frames that we like to have things done. Um And whilst it's a bit of a checklist exercise on Google Drive and Google Sheets. But I think it's just a nice way to make sure that for example, the social media team have all of the resources and all the information for the next week's events out in time. Um It's just uh I think it avoids the stress as well last minute having to uh not post graphics for, for an event within 12 hours as well. So it's a kind of be be on everyone's uh everyone's watch. Yeah, I love it. Thank you. And I love that thing that's coming out of kind of learning from those you're more senior than you and then giving back to those here, maybe more junior in their career from you. Um Yeah, that's really great that give first ethos is coming through and we're gonna move on to the topic of people management. There were a lot of questions on this topic. I'm just having a look at the pool here as well. Um On which of these do you find most difficult? And? Well, just slightly, the majority have said people management um as opposed to time management, both tricky. Um But Angela, I'd love to kind of speak and into your experience here. Um in terms of how do you create a vision and inspire others to work together? Yeah. So I have been in uh the unique example with Med Tech Foundation where actually we were very new uh society when I originally joined it and we hadn't had sort of an overall national vision that we wanted to work towards. And it meant that um different branches of Med Tech Foundation at that time, we went sort of the National uh committee, we were just sort of different branches here and there were all working quite independently. Um And we were working towards the same goal, but it wasn't aligned in terms of vision missions, etcetera. Uh So I think um having a vision is actually really important, do have go hand and hand, creating a vision that everyone can work towards and then having everyone inspired to work towards that vision. So I guess how, how do you go about creating a vision? And you'll hear there's a lot of some of our events, but the, the thing that we start with is always the problem and I think that that's quite a nice, uh, take away to take away to anything that you do in your life. Like, if you start with the problem, then you know that you're gonna get somewhere from there. So, um, if you're going to think of a vision, whether it's for yourself or for your team or for committee organization, start with the problem. So what is the problem that you have recognized that there must be something there that you felt inadequate? So, so what is that? And what is it that you want to address? And then you need to think on the other end of things like what is the ideal situation that I want um that doesn't necessarily exist now and, and by answering those two questions, you have a broad understanding of what your vision would be. Um So, you know, with med Tech Foundation, there was no uh university level and it might slightly change now, but we, we don't get taught how to innovate in medical technology. We don't get taught how to work with other disciplines though. It's super important, you know, we need to be able to work with engineers. Um I say we medics um need to work better with engineers to be able to create devices and yet we don't ever learn how to do that. So, so that's the problem. Um And so that was one of the things that we want to address. So, interdisciplinary collaboration, innovation education. Um And so that's how we started working about our vision. And then when it comes to sort of inspiring your team to work together, which feeds into creating a vision if you're all working together and are feeding into this vision together. Um So your hearing, what other people think the problems are you hearing from your team, what they want to solve, then the vision you're collaborating together to create it so that it encompasses as many minds as possible. And ultimately, it means that all of these people who are now part of your committee who are now working together, I know exactly what you're working towards, they fed into it and therefore they are motivated. Um And it means that when they look at themselves and their individual role that they can play towards reaching this goal, then they're more likely to do a better job than they're doing because they know exactly where they're going because they were part of the conversations. So I think in terms of inspiring people to, to work together, it's all about getting them involved at the really early stage so that they can really understand where they're going to go to and you know, the the kind of sky that they want to reach. I love it. And when you've got people on board, your vision um moving, I'd love to ask you how do you then import them to carry out their rules? I think from what I've kind of observed as not being a leader but, you know, but observing other leaders, what I've seen is, which I've taken on myself is one of the biggest steps is kind of recognizing, you know, people who are kind of putting in the effort or you could say even putting in the extract effort as well and kind of acknowledging it and this could be to differing degrees. So you could just simply, you know, if they do something uh like a uh they put out a social media post like on time, um You could just, you know, pop the message or something, something like, thank you so much. I appreciate you doing this on time. Um And if you, if they're quite consistent at it, you know, we kind of appreciate you and you take a note of you, something like that or it could be the other extreme as well. You could uh kind of reward them as well, kind of giving them more responsibility if they're happy to take it as well. And once, you know, they kind of uh feel that they're valued uh that might just motivate, motivate them to kind of work towards, you know, the common goal of the um society. And this is uh kind of empowering, it's really empowering for them to know as well that they're being heard and appreciated in the society as well. Um And that just increases kind of the efficiency of the society as well. And kind of, another thing is um kind of enabling people to work to their strength as well. So uh just making sure uh that, you know, giving people kind of the responsibilities that they may be familiar with so that tasks can be kind of completed in due time. Um And with minimal errors to make sure it's kind of done efficiently as well. Um And also kind of um encouraging um members to kind of um you know, have, have their own ideas and contribute new ideas as well. Um And just, just being open and inviting as well, just to just, you know, just to add on to the fact that, you know, that you heard um that you're being appreciated as well. And also I think someone mentioned it as well. I think the best way to kind of um empower them is to kind of lead by example as well. So, you know, if you, if you can communicate, you kind of your pash in uh for the aims and the goals of the society, I'm sure that will kind of empower them to, you know, follow, following your speed as well. Um So that's, that's kind of what I think super a slightly trickier question. Um a how do you manage conflict or have you had any experiences of managing conflict? So I think that's, it's especially tricky for talking in the context of student societies because usually your friends with the people that you're in a society with and your friends first before you're doing this and this is something you're kind of doing on the side. Um So I think the main thing I've learned from kind of managing conflict is too put things into context. So think about, you know, is this, pick your battles, is this something, you know, something that wasn't done exactly the way you want it? But is this really a big deal? And I think you need to think about when you're going to raise an issue and when you're going to make something into a conversation with someone about, like how they're, how they're conducting themselves and when to let things go, because I think there's a lot to be said for letting things go sometimes um and recognizing when things are starting to become a pattern and then maybe acting on them. And I think the other thing is, is kind of depersonalizing the conflict. So don't make it about the person per se and making it about the task. And I think that's especially something I found very useful when dealing with conflict with people that, you know, quite well. Uh and trying to make sure that it doesn't impact about side of this and making it about the work more than it being about them and how that they're doing stuff. Um And I think probably the last thing I would say, which I found most useful is always take some time between sort of something happening or, or any conflict happening and you acting on it because I think in the heat of the moment you are always more likely to overreact. Um, and if you take, say half an hour or something and just, you know, think about it or talk to someone, talk to some people on your team, then you're, you're far more likely to react appropriately than your, if you, if you act it straight away. Yeah, great advice. Um Yeah, I think you're right. It can be super awkward kind of if you're seeing these people every day, if you're working with them or the added dynamic, could being friends with them is a lot to kind of balance all those relationships when you're in that position. Angela, like to ask you the same question, any advice or any experiences that you can speak about as well. Yeah, has already mentioned quite a lot of good pieces of advice that I definitely follow myself as well. Um I think the other thing that I would say it's that often when we hear about conflict and you know, when they ask it in interviews and they say, oh, have you been in a situation where you had to resolve a conflict? Actually a lot of people um are conflict of us, right? Like we get worried when we think about conflict and we really, really try and prevent that and I definitely agree. Do your best to try and um prevent anything that's gonna cause a conflict from happening if you can. But actually, I would like to get present a different angle and say that actually conflict is sometimes really, really useful and um conflicts of colleagues isn't necessarily a bad thing. And in fact that the committee members that I've worked really closely were so especially my executive committee that I've worked really close with over the last few years, the ones that I value the most are the ones that I probably have the most conflict with. And that's just because, um, we challenge each other and we, um, uh, I would present an idea and they would just, you know, shut it down or they would just tell me that, you know, and actually, I don't think this is a good idea and I really, really value that because, you know, I have my own opinion. But if I'm making decisions for an organization, I need to know what, what everyone else is going to think about it. I need to know how that, what the impact is going to be about that. And I definitely don't know everything. So I rely on my committee members to be able to tell me if I'm doing something wrong or equally, tell me if I haven't thought of a different perspective, which is important. So the people I value the most of the people who can actually speak up and have that conflict with me and I like to think. Right. I try and think and try and make it so that people are, feel comfortable having that conflict with me and I think that's really important as well. People should feel comfortable being able to raise their opinion or say that there's something wrong with the way that things are going currently or if we're missing, um, if we're missing, like, uh, an event stream or, or something's missing from the organization, I think it's really important that people can speak up. Um And uh, the way that I try and do that is I try and if I'm ever talking with someone, um I try and ask them to give me their opinions first, uh, in a non biased way just so, you know, I'm just throwing this idea out there. I already have, like, I obviously already have my opinion, but I'm really interested to hear what other people think and that just means that they don't jump in agreeing with me. They give that honest opinion as to how things are actually going to go forward and how things should change going forward as well. Yeah, super. Thank you. And I think, yeah, part of that conflict comes from having diversity in your committee or your organization as well and diversity of thought and opinion, which is obviously what we really want to have um, on these teams. Um Steven a question for you is how do you navigate these different personalities or navigate um some of these kind of clashes and managing all the people on your team. So I think basically carrying on from everyone. Um It's very useful to, to take a moment out. Um and to formulate sort of a game plan um as to how you're going to navigate the situation as well because the worst thing that you can do is potentially make it worse um by intervening. Um And uh like Angela, I think I've had my fair shell, um, professional clashes, I suppose, um outwork and also um at um s and other organizations that worked for and um the most useful um uh sort of thing that I've learned or the first thing I tried to incorporate relatively uh early on is to try and take them uh under your wing, try to understand the person a bit more because you can understand the person a bit more than you can understand the angle. Um Everyone will have ideas and everyone will have opinions and that's part and parcel of the game and none of their opinions and none of their ideas are ever bad ideas. Um But fundamentally, um you have to kind of uh navigate the waters as to, you know, what is right for the organization or what, what's right for the moment. And then part of that is, I suppose the debrief and, and trying to reason with them and trying to politely educate them on uh why I've gone for this or I have not gone for, for their idea. And at the end of the day, you can just hope that they take that one. Um, and they understand and they realize that, um, you know, uh maybe things or they're, they're bigger things than, than potential, um, personal ego and things like that. Uh, because as I said, it's very easy to get distracted, um, in, I suppose, leadership roles in, into always making things like yourself. But what you really need to understand, especially for, for everyone's career ahead is that you're, you're really a team and you need everyone to come around. You, you need to, everyone to, to buy into the idea um because these will be your future colleagues. Um Yeah, they could be your consultant, it could be your, your junior colleagues and then everyone on the same board to, to try and get the most optimal outcome for the organizational, for the patient as well. Yeah, brilliant. Thank you. Um I, I'd love to go back to um and our last kind of question on the topic of people management is how do you lead your peers or those who are more senior than you? Yeah, I think I've had sort of a lot of experience of leading people who perhaps older than I am. Um And I think it's told me one of the most important lessons about leadership, which is that you're, you're not entitled to anyone thinking that you're by virtue of you leading them, that you know what you're doing or that you are sort of the person who should be in charge and you need to earn that and that comes with time and you need to show people that you're, you've earned the position that you're in and you bring value. Um, and I think that kind of the best way to deal with that is to show people why you deserve to be in the position that you're in and, and to, to be a team player and to do the work. And I think ultimately, it comes with time and, and eventually people will see that you are able to contribute and you're in that position for a reason. So I think it's, it's intimidating much first. But, you know, if you, if you view it as a challenge, um and I think most people who tend to be in these medicines like challenges, then you would, it's an opportunity to grow and it's kind of a good place to be in. Super. Thank you so much for sharing from your personal experiences on people management. Um Angela, I'd like to go back to you for a slightly different topic. Um Maybe global leadership. Um And get your advice on how do we best collaborate with other organizations. Yeah. So I guess collaborations are, you know, sometimes they can be really, really easy, especially when someone approaches you with a clear are. So, you know, another society comes to you and says, hey, I'd really like to organize a conference together and now that's really clear cut, you're gonna work with them, you're gonna organize a conference that's gonna reach the same goal. So, um, you know, we've worked with gas up before to do a global, global, global, um, uh, global surgery hackathon, for example. But where it gets more tricky is when someone approaches you and they don't really know where they're going to go with the conversation. So they've usually sent you a linkedin message or they sent a message to your organizational Facebook page or something saying, oh, hey, we're interested in what you do. They, um, and I, I'd love to chat to find out how we can collaborate. And that's, that's the kind of questions that we get a lot from. Um And I'm sure that if you've been any leader of organization, if you go into those positions, you'll get those questions quite a lot. So, um I like to follow a simple structure when I do get these questions. So the first thing that I do is obviously set a meeting date with them. Um But there's a lot of preparation that goes in before that meeting date. So I would want to know much more about them. So I would either read up about them, look at their website, look at any articles that they've released if they've got any Um So I want to find out what they do, what, what are their values that's really important because you want, you want your values to align. Um And um what, what is it that makes them feel like they want to collaborate with you? Is there something in terms of their values or what they've done? That is something that you have, have organized externally or done with other people before? I think that's really important. And then you want to find out how they've actually collaborated with other people in the past. So have they actually um done any collaborations with other student organizations or have they done speaker events of other people? What is their specialty when it comes to doing things with other people or even just doing things by themselves? Uh And hopefully, by looking into this and seeing the kind of the past events that they've held, you get an idea as to what they're good at, but also where you might be able to collaborate and then I usually just, you know, send a message to my committee and say, does anyone know about this organization? Um And, or know what they've been all been to their events? And does anyone have any suggestions as to how we might collaborate with them? And you work as a team again, it's all about bringing your team together so that they can be on board on this partnership or this collaboration. Um And, and you have a pre meeting to your, at your meeting with them, which is all about, you know, how are we going to best make the most out of this collaboration? And then we have our meeting and we discuss everything that you've worked out. And often it just means that that meeting can be really straight to the point. And it means that once you come out of that meeting, you've got a really clear idea of how you can collaborate if you're going to collaborate at all. I love it. Thank you. So, so many helpful tips and advice and what you've just said there. Um Thank you so much for sharing. Um Just to close this panel, I just want to go quickly around the room and just get one piece of advice um that you'd like to share with more delegates or aspiring leaders, Jeremy and maybe start with you. So I think the tip is always to watch, kind of observe what people do learn from them and then put it into practice whenever you can. I love it and moving. I think if you're going to start being a leader, I think just the first step, we kind of set goals and kind of plan ahead including a timeline and then just um work, work through that as you move along. Uh um I think being able to admit when you don't know the answer to things and being able to admit that sometimes you won't know how to do things. And actually the leaders I've respected most are people who've done that and it kind of creates space for the rest of your team to be able to do that when they don't know the answer to things. Thank you and Steven, I think it's just always being approachable and, um, finding something that works for you to try and harbor a really, really nice atmosphere for everyone to try and you know, make the, make the most of their abilities and you know, produce as much as they can. Absolutely. And last, but not least Angela. So I think I'm gonna go slightly different from what the others have said cause I know earlier they were talking all about the value of saying no, but I think until you recognize that value when you know where your limits are, I would really encourage you to take every opportunity that comes your way and especially if it's something and it is, if it in a field or anything that you're interested in, because as long as you've got those two things alive aligned, you're motivated uh to improve yourself and go forward, then you know, the opportunities will come your way and you'll be able to climb up a ladder to develop the leadership skills in that way. Oh Thank you. Um um On behalf of everyone here I teach, thank you to all of you, Jeremy, moving A S Steven and Angela and for all you're helpful advice, um for sharing, so honestly, from your own personal experiences, um, it's really greatly appreciated. Um And there are so many practical takeaways in the last 45 minutes. So, thank you so much.