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Hi, everyone and welcome to our core surgical um application and webinar. Um Kyle and Gina have thankfully um came and done a presentation for us to listen to you tonight about applying to core training. Kyle and Gina are um CST ones in the city hospital and um in the Belfast trust and they are currently in general surgery. So they are going to talk a little bit about the application to the core training. What happens come November time and then um the stages after that and then there'll be a chance for discussion and questions and stuff at the end. If you have any questions as we go along, we're just going to save them all to the end. So if you could just put them in the chat and then at the end, we'll go through them all. Um, there'll be a feedback form at the end for the guys that are speaking tonight. So if you could please um fill that out before you go, that would be great. Um But yeah, thank you, Kale and Gina. Um whenever you are ready. Thanks. Thanks Anna. Um Thanks everyone for joining. Um Essentially, it's gonna be a 30 45 minute um webinar basically just looking at the core surgical application process specifically to Northern Ireland. Um She and I both went through it last year. Um So we just hope to sort of share the, the process. It's not intended to scare you in any way, but hopefully to make it seem a little bit easier than what, what it's anticipated. Um So sort of overview of what we're going to generally talk about. We'll give a general overview of what they expect. Um We'll give sort of timeline of the application process, um what the interview entails, um some preparation resources and then we'll finish up with the discussion in Q and A. Um Before I started, I wanted to just do a little poll just to see um sort of what stage people are at and where they intend to, to apply to. Um So I'm just gonna start a pull. So if everyone just answers that please. Ok. So the majority are sort of F two or post F two, which is what I expected. Um Perfect. Um The next question then are you applying to core surgical training this year? So, yeah, so 60 40 split um apply and I suppose it's some people might be planning next year, but they keen to, to look ahead to see what they expect and see how they prepare. Um Where are you currently based. So I appreciate typically most people who do apply to Northern Irish training are from Northern Ireland. But there are some other people who do apply from sort of nationally or further abroad. So 50% are oxy national. Um 40% from N I and then the last question, um where do you intend to apply for core surgical training? Um Northern Ireland nationally, um or the Republic of Ireland. So about half of the people are going to apply to the UK A quarter and to a combination, typically most people do usually apply to more than one to try and give themselves the best chance. Ok, thank you. Um So yeah, so that was just the rough sort of plan what we're going to go through. Um Obviously you can apply um nationally to England, Scotland and Wales, um Northern Ireland and to the Republic of Ireland and we're just going to focus on Northern Irish recruitment tonight. Um So I was actually quite annoyed that 2023 competition ratios aren't yet up. Um But when you look back at the 2022 so the year that I applied, um so two years ago now, um it actually is, it's actually more reassuring, I think than scary. Um There was 38 jobs, 363 people applied. Um, 100 and 15 of those 363 were interviewed. Um There was actually only six people who were not appoint after interview. There was 100 and 15 people. So they accepted 37. So they filled 37 of the 38 jobs. But when you actually look at it, the lowest ranked offer was 100 and eighth of the 109 appoint people. So there was actually only seven people who were interviewed who didn't end up getting an offer. Um So hopefully that's more reassuring. Um Even even this year, again, there was 48 jobs when we, when we got to rank our jobs, there was 48 jobs. So there's 10 extra jobs this year. Um So that in theory should make it slightly easier, provided the same sort of people, number of people apply. Um And I think when I looked in a reel again today, the rank was out of 100 and 33. So I think 100 and 33 people were interviewed. So sort of competition issue should stay about the same, slightly more people interviewed, but there was 10 more jobs available. Um So what does the sort of timeline look at look like then um you apply through Oriel? Um The application window is opening the 26th of October of this year and we'll close the 23rd of November and that's about a week or two earlier than that applications last year. Um You'll then be long listed at some point after that. Essentially, if you are eligible to work in the UK, I think, and have a medical degree, you get long listed. So that's essentially everyone who applies. Um the next step then which was new for last year. And I think it's still gonna continue on this year for core surgical training is the MS R A exam. Um You don't need to do anything extra. You will be invited through the oral system via email to, to book, to set the MS R A. Um And the dates at the minute I think are going to be the fourth of January to the 14th of January. So you have to set the exam at some point during that, that window. Then what they do basically is they use that to shortlist all the applicants in the top 100 say 115. If you take the 2002, number 2022 numbers, the top 115 will then be invited to interview. Um The dates for that haven't yet been released, but last year was the 27th of February to the third of March. So it was that one week period um where you could select a date and time. Um They give you multiple appointments essentially to book and you pick the appointment which best suited you. Um Then you didn't have too long of a wait, there was only three weeks until the offers were released. Um Essentially the offers are based on, on interview scores. I think they haven't fully never fully have given us the exact way that they score. But essentially, it's score as highly as possible in the MS R A to get shortlisted for an interview and then just score as highly as possible again, in the interview to get an offer. But essentially, nearly everyone that gets an interview essentially gets an offer. There's very few people that actually don't. Um So the or it's not too difficult and it's basically what you expect essentially your demographics. Um There are some blank blank space questions. The they never again um declared how, how they use them or if they use them to, to rank you or shortlist you for interview. Um I suspect that they didn't at all and they only use the MS R A to, to shortlist, but there are, there are um banks based questions which you do have to answer on your, on your application process. Um Essentially looking for the the area and the rights of your additional undergraduate qualifications. If you have any, any post gu qualifications, any achievements, presentations and posters, publications, et cetera. It's all that you would expect to sort of sort of find in. It's quite similar to the national point scoring system, but I don't think there are any points available. Um and as well, um you do have to provide contact details for two or three referees. Um So it's a good opportunity to think about who these people are going to be. Now. Um, and it's a good idea to send them an email early and copy an up to date CV, with that email asking them. Would they be happy to do that so that they can, they can, um, look at your CV, well, in advance and, and complete it if needs be, um, what I should say with the blank sli questions, you've got maybe 100 203 100 words per, per topic. Um Even if you can't fill in any, you know, some of the headings, you can at least think of something. So for one example, the training and teaching you think, oh no, I haven't done any additional courses but there's a for the Northern Irish Foundation trainees, there's a flight module in training and teaching, which you can talk about there. So at least gives you something to talk about. So then the short listing process is the MS R A exam. Um, as I said earlier, you'll be invited to book via Oriel. So you'll get sent an email at some point after the, the application window closes. Really? It's uh, I can't remember exactly. It's like a two hour exam. It asks clinical and professional dilemma questions. Um It's the first time last year that it was brought in for core surgical training and it was typically used for GP and S and Gyne. There's essentially very little or no surgery asked in it. Um It's all general medical medical questions and essentially quite like final medical school questions. Again, two parts clinical and professional dilemma. Um Basically, the, the top scores are, are invited to interview them. Um So it's, it's sort of run through the patient view test centers like you do your driving test and your UK cat, et cetera. Um There's a couple of different resources that you can use and I basically only used past medicine. Um I can't remember exactly how much it was, but it was like 30 quid maybe. Um And it essentially covered everything that you needed um with very good um sort of explanations of the questions. Um There are others available, obviously the MC Q Bank um E Medica as well, but I think it's quite expensive, the em Medica um and then past test as well, it's probably advisable to use more than one resource um to get a general overview of what to expect. But it, it, the, it, I must say it isn't a particularly difficult exam, but obviously you want to score as high as possible because essentially the higher you score, the more likely you are to get an interview. And if you score very high, you know, will almost certainly get an interview. Um So then after you sit your MS R A in January, um you, you won't find out your score, you will just wait for an email to say that you have or have not been invited to interview. So last year it was the the middle of February. Then I got my email to say that I had got it an interview. Um And what it does is it essentially allows you to book your appointment for an interview um within that one week period. Um It didn't give you any information about the interview until the following week, um where it gives you um the link to sign up and it will tell you the duration of the interview and then what the interview actually involves. So you're kind of unsure of exactly what was going to be asked. But you knew roughly, um I suspect that this year again, it will be something very similar to last year. We have three stations where they ask a combination of questions about your CV um clinical questions and management questions. So you have from the, well, roughly from the 22nd of February until the first week of March. So you have a sort of 2 to 3 week period of to prepare. And I must admit I didn't think I was even going to get an interview. So I didn't start preparing until I found out I had an interview, but it was enough time to prepare. So it was a busy three weeks, but it was enough time. Um So last year's interview format, um I suspect it will be very similar to last year and really, it's really quite similar to the national um set up as well. Although nationally they sometimes have a presentation station, there's no presentation station, um Northern Ireland. Um So essentially, it's a, it's an online teams or Zoom interview and they essentially break it up into three areas and CV, clinical and management. The CV station or group of questions, essentially just looks at your own personal skills and qualities and achievements. Um There are 2 to 3 questions, but there's generally one main question which allows you to talk freely. Um They may talk about specific skills and qualities that you might need in the job or that would make you a good surgeon, et cetera. Um So it's a good idea to, to know your CV. Well, um and be able to freely talk, talk about those and how you, you meet those skills and qualities and what you've done that would, would make you sort of good at that area. Um There are typically some follow up questions, but usually when you minor, I think they asked me had I passed mrcs um as a follow up question. Um and you have 10 minutes roughly to, to answer, to answer that sort of TV station, the next one, which is probably the easiest because it's the, the one we, we know more and we have studied more. Um It's the clinical, the clinical sort of station, you get two scenarios um with follow up questions. Um So you typically, you'll get an unwell surgical patient. Um that could be an unwell surgical patient through ed um or on the ward um preop or POSTOP um or they can give you a trauma scenario using the A TLS principles. So two scenarios um with some follow up questions. The last one then is the management, the management station um sort of clinically related, ethical or logistical dilemmas that they get you to talk through. Um You get two or three scenarios that you talk through. Um and they may ask you some follow up questions. Um And again, 10 minutes or 10 minutes per, per station for the full 30 minute interview. Although, um I don't think most people talk for the full 30 minutes. Usually they just move on if you finish the, the question. Um So the interview is over using in maybe 25 minutes or so. Um So more specifically than about the CV station. Um So really the CV station maps to your CV and it really encompasses all of the, the blank space questions that, that I talked about earlier and the question will be, will be quite open and will you will allow you to pick out areas of all these different headings and topics that you that you want to talk about to show off, I suppose. Um Think about all your buzzwords. Um The sort of classic ones are leadership and management and teamwork, et cetera. Um You should have in your head um areas or topics of those blank space questions, which highlight how you've shown that you've shown good leadership or that you, you've been able to manage situations in the past or um maybe about teamwork. So achievement outside medicine, if you play sport or anything, um try try to think of personal experience in achievement and to highlight those areas, it can be helpful then to look at the self assessment scoring. Um health education in England have a really good self assessment which can, which can guide you um in that area. Um Sometimes it's good to have a little sort of framework in your head. Um An example is c so if you think about um a specific scenario or a topic and you think about how you have met that clinically in an academic um manner, in a managerial manner or a personal manner. Um It can gives you a sort of framework to structure your answer. Um the clinical station again, it's, it's um something which is probably the most familiar to all of us because it's something that we do day to day or studied a lot for, especially for finals. Um They will give you, they will typically give you a scenario such as your call to an unwell patient, the nurses will beat you to the ward. Um The patient is tachycardia and hypotensive um after say major abdominal surgery. Um So you can already probably think in your head of maybe a couple of reasons why that would be if they're septic or they've, if hemorrhaged, um when you go through your ABC DE algorithm, um do mention as many things as you can to get as many ticks for each of those areas. But do you try to make it specific to the scenario? Um If you think of the trauma sort of scenario, there's no point going through every area or everything that you want can be. Um you can specifically say about chest wall trauma and looking for, um, a flail segment. You could also specifically say that you're going to percuss because you're, you're suspicious that there might be a pneumothorax, et cetera. If you do make it specific, then it makes you sound like you're really focused, then you do know what you're looking for. Um, which makes you sound like you're really switched on. Um, exactly. So clinically relevant signs. So, so do pick up the clinically relevant signs along the way or mention ones that you would be specifically looking for when in, when you're running through differentials in your head. Um, don't just go through your ABC D use your initiative, um, and say that you would escalate essentially every scenario is above what would be expected for you to manage as a new CT one. So escalate to your senior, other senior teams, um, as well and make referrals as need be talk about the investigations that you want and why you want them. Give a well thought out or an accurate differential. Um and then make a management plan from there if you don't or you forget, they will generally give you pointers to, to move on to these sorts of areas. But it sounds very good if you can, if you can do them yourself. Um Just obviously the little um Mr on the, on the right about group and differentials. If you can't think on the top of your head of differentials, then go through your vitamin CD E to think about potential causes. Um Essentially in this station, if you go through your ABC de or your A TLS principles, which essentially do follow ABC D and the, the care of the critically ill surgical patient, which again, essentially just does go through your ABC D, you can't go far on, then the last one, the Management and Ethics Station, um these can be tricky, but if you, if you do prepare for them, um there's a very good framework, um the spy framework that that can essentially allow you to answer any, any of these scenarios. Um Typically, there are things like um you come into theater in the morning and you find your registrar appears drunk. Um What do you do? So if you, if you have in your head, this framework um that allows you to answer it actually very easily. So you seek more information, you could approach him sensitively and ask him. Um has he consumed alcohol? Um Obviously, the massive patient safety elements. So you would immediately act and make sure that they stepped away from the clinical environment. You can use your initiative and your initiative is multiple different ways. So your initiative can be to escalate as below. But it also is to ensure that there's adequate cover if a patient is in theater because they're unwell and need the operation, then you're using your initiative to, to arrange appropriate um cover. So another, another surgeon could perform a potentially lifesaving operation, say, um escalate to your senior. Um and then offer support. Um The, the plus sign is, is for like a um ensuring it doesn't happen again or an audit. So, in different scenarios as well, if it's say it was um a scenario around not getting to theater enough, um You could audit the, the, the court trainees um exposure to theater and then what you can do is you can present that at a, at an audit meeting um to support your case. Um So what are the best ways to prepare them? Um Stars run some courses? Um I, I didn't, didn't do one myself but um I've heard they're quite good. There are some books available, medical interviews and the core surgery interview, ace, um and run some courses as well. Um The single resource that I used was me and I found it very, very useful. Um Essentially, it's what I found was the most accurate to what comes up and gives a very good framework to base your answers off. So I would definitely recommend me anybody. Um Again, it does cost, but it's very good and it's definitely worth it. And think about the virtual setup. Um They haven't announced whether they are going to run the interviews online, but I assume that they probably will. Um So think about your virtual setup, the obvious things like making sure you've got decent wifi connection, but also think about your lighting. Um and your background, I know some people that do invest in the fancy halos lights around their screen to make it look a little bit fancier. Um You can if you want, I don't think it matters an awful lot. Um One of the most important things though is um practicing if, if the interview is going to be online again and try and find out who else in, in your, your your friend group is applying and, and run mock interviews online. So it's, it's very familiar to what it's like on the day with explaining your answers through, through a screen. Um Just a few extra sort of tips and try to prepare 2 to 3 minute answers for those sort of main areas. Um Know in your head, say, for example, if it's on communication, no, in your head, specific examples that you want to bring up which highlight um your communication skills um have examples then such as your research, your audit, your teaching, which, which um highlight these areas and it's useful to have some clinical examples um as well as extracurricular to, to demonstrate those areas. Um Generally, then the, the three stations I think are scored equally but do try to perform consistently across the whole interview. Um There's more marks than, than you think. Um It's always going better than you think. I think people are, are negative but you're getting marks for very simple things. Um So, so you're doing much better than you think. If you do get a strange question that I, I don't suspect you would, I think it's very, it's very typical and you can expect um to know what's gonna come up, but you can pause and construct your answer before you launch into it. Practice is the most important thing. Um Prepare your answers, practice individually. Um So that, you know, the frameworks um to answer questions and then we a step forward. Um And, and practice online or with, with other friends or colleagues. Um And like I said, with the competition issues, I suspect they'll be similar for the odds around your fever. If you, if you perform well at MS R I, you get invited to interview, you're more than likely you're gonna get an offer. Um Just one more thing obviously for the people listening who aren't from Northern Ireland, who have never worked in Northern Ireland. Um Our employer is nd um They have a lot of useful information. They have the applicant guide for specialty recruitment on their website and they have some useful short listing information and some very good self assessment um information as well. Um So that's basically everything I wanted to cover. Um Let me just check the, the chat and see if there's any. Is there any questions? No. Um shea if I ask you, um I suppose where did you apply to Northern Ireland? Did, did you apply nationally or where did you apply to? So, um I did my F one back in Pakistan that I worked in the northwest of England for my F two. So when I applied, uh I applied nationally to the UK and then to Northern Ireland separately as well. Um I found out quite last minute that there was a separate recruitment process for Northern Ireland. Um So, yeah, my experience was a bit different. Um Obviously I was geared more towards the national recruitment. Um But since you have to give the MS R A for both of them, um it was quite similar in that sense because they used just the MS R A for short listing. Um and I didn't think I would get in the first time I applied. So, applied for uh prep for the injury quite later on when I found out that the injury was actually happening um in terms of for the, I mean, um and maybe 60 lb or something, but I represented Exactly. I uh is it the same V DMI? Is it? Yeah, it is. You know, maybe if you try turn your camera off and just go audio, it might be a little bit better. Oh, I think it's completely gone. Oh, shea if you try and reconnect, um there's a couple of questions in the, in the chat so I can try and answer those. Um So yeah, do you need to provide evidence at the application stage? Um So again, I didn't know this when I was applying because nationally, um you do have to submit all your evidence for the scoring system. But in Northern Ireland, there is not, there isn't a scoring system, so you do not have to provide any additional evidence. Um Obviously, you can talk about in that sort of blank space question and in the CV question, if you got an opportunity to talk about your commitment, um you could talk about your log book. Um But there is, you do not need to submit any evidence. Um Have the majority of people passed is that um everyone has to sit the MS ra I think you're talking about the MRC PM R CS and the membership surgical exam. Um We had an induction at the end of August for all the new CT ones and everyone had passed part day. Yeah, you don't have to or you have to have passed it by the end of your CT two to apply for an ST three position but you, you don't need it, but obviously it's beneficial. It shows that you're committed. Um I wouldn't worry, obviously it's nearly too late to, to probably worry about it now and rush to do it before the interview. So if you haven't, um I wouldn't worry if you perform well enough at the MS R A and, and your interview, it, it probably doesn't matter. Um So this, this self assessment to be shortlisted. So again, it's different to, to the national. Um Essentially there was no, there was no self assessment score for Northern Ireland. Um like nationally where you count up your points for each of these different areas. That wasn't the case for Northern Ireland. Essentially, you complete your blanks based questions. Um I don't think they were scored. Um Essentially what you do is you perform as well as you can at MS R A which it invites you to interview and then at interview, it's the top scoring after interview and gives you your offer. Um So there isn't a score on the self assessment. There is no self assessment for Northern Ireland. I think it probably makes it slightly easier actually to then get a job in Northern Ireland compared to nationally. Sorry. Shea Are you, are you back? Yeah, hi. Sorry about that. Um Yes. So um basically, uh I think I was talking about the resources I used. So NCQ bank I use mainly for the MS R A prep. Um, it's about 60 lbs or so I believe for four months. Uh, and quite a few other people that I know used em medic as well. Um, but again, best thing would be to just do a combination of two question banks and that way you're just covered for the SJD as well, which is what most people struggle with. Um, in regards to interview prep. Uh, I recommend anybody enough. Um I feel the questions are really representative of the stations I got on my actual exam uh on my interview. Sorry. Uh I also use the core surgery interview book. Um just got that off of Amazon. But again, the questions and that are they're useful, but the, the book was written a long time ago. So you can definitely tell when you're going through it. Um But again, if you have the dime, I would recommend just use the resources and then that way you cover for pretty much everything. Um And yeah, like you mentioned before, main thing for Northern Ireland specifically would be to do well at your MS R A because that's the main thing they're looking at. And then as long as you do well at the interview as well, you're pretty much guaranteed a job. Mm Prior to the interview, do you guys have to submit evidence for anything that you have talked about or like in your CD and the, the blank space questions or anything. No, there's, there's no evidence for anything you've done. No. So, really? Ok. For Northern Ireland there wasn't, uh, they do ask some for national recruitment but not for Northern Ireland. No, again, sometimes it changes year to year. But for the past couple of years I don't think they've been asking for evidence. I think it makes it slightly easier because I was rushing to get my logbook signed by a consultant with any consultant that I could find. Um So yeah, so it, it takes that a little bit of stress out. Um But yeah, there's, there's no evidence required this again with the blank space questions. They do ask you a lot of stuff. So it can seem quite scary when you're filling out the application. Um because they ask you about teaching audits, basically all the things that are on the A G website for the self assessment part, but I don't really think they use those answers for shortlisting you or asking you specific injury questions at all. No, I, I think it's, I think it's essentially just MS R and then the interview, everyone gets the same question or a set of questions. Um And they haven't, they haven't seen your banks based questions. Um obviously don't, don't hold us to it because they may well read them and it may well count for something and they've never announced that. Um So do you obviously submit the best answer that you can give for, for every topic. Um, and stress obviously. Um, you think? Oh, no, I haven't got a, a presentation or a publication but there's always something that you can write for every, every heading. Um, even your commitment to surgery, you can talk about your log book, you can talk about, um, anything, anything, um, the answers will be, will be fine. Exactly. Even for if you haven't done any formal teaching, um, uh, you've worked F one F two, I'm sure you've taught medical students even informally talk about. Um, just don't leave anything blank in those sections, I would say. Yeah. Yeah. It's better, better to give someone to them to leave a blank. Yeah. Um, does anyone have any other questions, um, feel free to pop them in the chat? Thank you. I've covered pretty much everything. Yeah. Yeah. Um, if there's no other questions then I think that'll, that'll do us. Um, what I, what I'll do is I'll, I'll send the feedback for, into the, into the chat. If everyone would fill that in, that would be really appreciative, um, to help us sort of improve for the future. Um, I hope everyone find it, find this useful. Um, again, the intention is to sort of alleviate any stress around it and, and try and make it as familiar as possible before you, before you go through for the rest of the year. Um, trust me, it's really, it sounds really daunting but it's definitely not as difficult as it as it seems. The MS R I exam generally is, is straightforward enough. The situational judgment part of it is more tricky than the clinical. Um But the overall exam is, is generally fine and, and the same with the interview, the questions are what you would expect to come up. If you, if you look at me anybody first, you'll be fairly well prepared. Um And then you will, you will do fine, ok. So I think that that will do this. I'm gonna, I'm gonna hang up. Thank you very much for joining everyone. Thank you.