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So the first thing I wanted to say was so before when when I applied for the for the job at Stanmore. Um, one of the consultants, uh, that was working in the same department in Stanmore said that if you are successful, you deserve the best. And if you're unsuccessful, it is their loss. Uh, so you really shouldn't undersell yourself. You should know your worth, uh, and it is really important that you go in with confidence. And if you say this to yourself before every interview before every visit, it really helps boost your confidence because it can be quite unnerving and quite daunting, especially when you're going to a strange institution. You haven't visited before and you're very keen on the job there. Uh, so it's always very easy to, uh, to undersell yourself. Now, initially added to the fact that this is a relationship, it is a marriage, and that's why I have this slide and, you know, why do you need to do a pre interview visit? You know, you it's always a good idea when you're getting into a long term relationship to understand what the the family policies or the trust policies are. What's the financial situation? Um, the aims and aspirations for both yourself and the trust, Um, the the various problems that that are being faced, Uh, what are the next priorities in the next five years or 10 years into the future, Can you? And also to understand, can you offer what is needed? Uh, is this someone you want to spend the rest of your working life with? You know, So these are really valid questions. Um, and then are there any in any trouble with any external agencies? You always want to do a background check, you know, and it all helps you decide and then distill your answers for the final interview. But it's not about the job. This is actually about you. Uh, and whether, uh, you know whether you want to spend your time with all these people, Uh, and whether you feel it is, it is whether you will fit in, uh, and whether you have a happy working life, you know? So you know that this is really important. It's the pre interview visits are also as much for you as it is for them. And what are the preconditions of, uh, of the visit. So you really need to show that you want the job. You need to show that you're sincere about it, that you're passionate about your field, what you've done and what you've achieved in all these years that you're extremely honest. You know, as, uh, you know, you shouldn't want to embellish any Any content that you that you are providing always be punctual. Don't be late for for any appointments and always be well dressed because you are being judged at every stage, uh, of the pre interview visit. So, um, I took this list from, uh, this consultant, uh, interview book. It's It's from this I S C Medical skills Course, and someone provided me this, and this was very useful. Uh, so this is a kind of a generic list of people who you should really meet before my interviews, I was able to meet, uh, these individuals, Uh, and it was really helpful to understand the trust because I had no idea what knowledge was like, what the requirements were, what the trust strategy he was, uh, and what the values were, Uh, so it's really important that you you spend time with these individuals make appointments, uh, and and plan your visits. As Kate alluded to that, you should, you know, it takes four or five goals before you visit all the individuals involved. Um, we discussed previously that job specifications are really important. So you really need to understand is just an example. You know, you really need to know exactly what the what is on offer, what the person's specifications are. And you need to know this like the back of your hand. Because when you talk to individuals for your pre interview visit, it will come across if you haven't done your homework. The the other things that are really important is you should know. Um, you know, I would really recommend reading the annual report. Uh, that has a lot of it's dry reading, but if you go through it, you have an understanding of what the past year has been like what the future is like, what the state of the finances are. You should read the CQ see report, because it will tell you where the improvements are, and then that will help you synthesize your answers. At the time of the interview and also you should try and bring elements of what you've read into your conversation at the pre interview visits. It's really important to know the basic every trust has has. You know, these set of values for Norfolk and Norwich have the pride values. So it's really important that you actually, um, you know, read that and try and weave that into your conversation. Don't try and make it too obvious, but at least show that you're interested and it shows that you have come across that you've done your homework. And also it's really important to know the legacy of the department that you're going into. Uh, so it's, uh, it'll be good to read up about famous people who have who have been through that department, who are who are well known names there and that you know a little bit about them because, you know, it's as much for you to understand what you're walking into. And so, um, and it it shows that you care about the place that you're going to your immediate colleagues. You know, your immediate consultant, consultant colleagues we're going to work with, uh, need to be impressed by you need you need to show that you can get along with them, and you should really google them and find out why. I'm very lucky to have great colleagues who are very easy going. Uh, but I did my homework before I met them. You know, I I read up their their most recent publications. I read about their interests. I understood. You know what society members they were, uh, And what? What? Their their what they liked. And then that helps you get along with them. Um, it's again. It's, um, important to, uh, to to, uh, come across as being well like, But don't don't be honest about it. You know, if you don't like playing silly games, then then don't try and set up a meeting in, uh, in that fashion, so just be honest about it. But it's important to know your immediate consultant colleagues or your future consultant colleagues. Really well. And then what about the other colleagues? We have a massive department at the Norfolk and Norwich. So always good to get a list. Uh, the website has all the pictures, so you can put a name to a face. Uh, you know the basics. No, their specialty know their know the management team. Uh, it will be very hard to memorize all of this. But at least if you familiarize yourself with what their interests are, you can then tailor the conversations that you have with them. Uh, and see, you know how you can find common ground. Uh, you know, sometimes in the, uh, the concern descriptions, they do mention hobbies and things like that. So, uh, you know, if you have any overlapping hobbies, you know that that is another point of, uh, of conversation, which shows that you you know, you're an easygoing, amiable person. How do you reach them? Um, if if you're lucky enough to have the same trust email address, then you can find their email addresses through the NHS mail. Uh, you know, application. Uh, if you don't have access to NHS mail, uh, then it's always great to get help. You can always find a list of individuals that you need to meet from the website and then try and get in touch with one of the secretaries, Or try and get in touch with a consultant who is happy to help you out to provide you with a list of names and email addresses so that you can formulate a an email try and be, um uh, don't Don't try and be to generic. You know, don't have a standard stock email that goes to everyone. Uh, you know, try and tailor your email to that person addressing by name and then a few talking points that you would like to discuss, uh, which is relevant to that individual and relevant to that individuals. Special interest. Uh, so, uh, you know, try and customize your emails when you when you send them out, The general rules always plan your visit. You know, avoid unplanned meetings. You don't want to catch someone or by and by I'm you know, I just drop by. I thought maybe you had a few minutes. You know, you don't know what mind frame that person is in. Uh, and you know, these interactions are really important, and they can really make or break your interview, have a sense of time. You know, when you're sitting with someone, uh, you know, they might be busy. They might be between cases, they might have other engagements or commitments. So try and read the read the room, Read the atmosphere. Don't try and bore them. If they feel If you feel there rush for time, then try and summarize your visit quite quickly, uh, and then have open and confident body language. Uh, and that usually comes with with time, but do kind of mentally prepare yourself before you go in for the visits. And then what are the things that you should discuss? So in general, you know, with So this is for the consultant, you know, or anyone just, you know, summarize your mission statement. It's really important to summarize what you can offer and what attracts you to the place and that, you know, that forms part of your application. So make sure you know your mission statement that you've written really well. Um, discuss the, you know, the current, you know, specific challenges that are relevant to the individual you're discussing them with, uh, you know, discuss your overlapping interests, your special interests, or how you can work together. Try and highlight how you work well as a team and what you can do, uh, and always ask for a suggestion and advice for the interview, you will always get a few good nuggets of information that will really help you, uh, with your interview and then if there is time and if it is relevant, you can have a little bit of a small kind of concluding conversation about shared hobbies, sports things to do in the area. Things like that, You know, things that you're interested in. Uh, there's no harm dropping in a copy of your CV, which obviously should be, uh, you know, uh, well constructed, uh, and specific for the job that you're applying for. So with, uh, you know, various individuals again, I'm not going to elaborate. There are a lot of books out there which help you ask specific cross related questions. But again, uh, it it all is, uh, you really have to think about what you're going to ask them. But in general, the the overview is that you should talk about the departmental strategy with your specialty director or clinical director cross strategy with the chief executive or the manager. The you know, you talk about service expansion, you know, whether it there any major events, you know, new theaters built, you know, uh, any new major trust mergers, things like that What are the targets? You know, that's based on, uh, you know, generally based on the c. Q. C report. You know what, What is the trust trying to achieve, what are the priorities? And then at the end, always ask for helpful suggestions for the interview from these people because they're likely to be on your interview panel. Uh, and so it always helps. And at the end, you kind of distill the information that you get. Uh, and then you prepare yourself for the interview. Uh, and it's invaluable advice that you get from from all all persons and try and, you know, cast your net wide, speak to the nurses, speak to the managers, speak to the doctors, Um, and in the end, you know, again, I just want to summarize it. It's about you. It's about how you fit into the team. Uh, and this dark board is a good analogy. If you have a good pre interview visit, you get a lot of valuable information, uh, which you have written down at the time because you're likely to forget when you've met 40 or 50 people. But then you finally scored the bullseye, which is your your concern interview and getting the job. Uh, and I want to leave you again with this statement that, if you're successful, is because you deserve the best. And if you're unsuccessful, it is their loss. They lost out on a great candidate. That has been you. Thanks. Believe that was great. Um, we have got some questions in the chat. So Iggy's asked, You always know who's on your interview panel? Um, so Mike responded to say that he didn't know his, uh, I knew mine. There were some last minute changes. I think on the whole I knew you get an email. So with who's on your panel? So also, we try to make sure because then you can meet the people. The the only thing I would say is, Do not be surprised. Occasion. You'll get people to say I'm not meeting any of the candidates because their their view of kind of, you know, proper behavior is not to actually preload their view of people. And you just have to respect that. The other thing is, try to make sure that you make contact with every member of the department. Now the reality is you probably don't mean to meet them all. But then I was told when I was appointed afterwards, somebody's nose was put out of joint because I made no particular effort to go and meet, said Person. And that really irritated them because it's as much as anything. It's about coughing the forelock so it doesn't hurt to try and make contact with everyone. And if they say really, thank thanks. But I heart, I'm too busy. You've lost nothing. A couple of other things. That pride values thing is really, really important. One of the things that came out during my MBA, how organizations are moving towards what they call values based appointments. So in other words, instead of worrying about the technical skills or you know which school tie you wore, which is what might have happened 2030 40 years ago, they want to see that your values are in alignment with the organization's values. Now that's slightly different from knowing and being able to recite the creed of pride. Okay, What they're trying to do is dig beneath the surface and see how you have lived your life and how you behaved and whether those behaviors fit with the organizations thinking so it's just something to be mindful of. Uh, the pride values are the knowledge Norfolk and Norwich is hospital kind of, uh, one and then awkward pride. So it's about finding the one. What's it at West Suffolk? Mike? It's first, which is just just values. So yeah, so just so everyone's aware each hospital have their own Sorry. Back to finish. Yeah. And I think, um, the other thing is I did like, Rajiv thing about, you know, if if they appoint you, you've got that's great and if they don't, it's their loss. But also, you kind of have to think that sometimes it is about fit in a department. Now, one of my what somebody I know went to an interview somewhere, and they made out a certain really hierarchical way that they run the department. And she did not feel that that was the right fit for her. And she told them straight that I don't agree with that and she didn't get the job, but actually, she was quite pleased with that, because you don't want to end up in a place that's going to make you unhappy. Um, so Sometimes the place is not right for you. It's not that you're not right for them. It's equally they're not right for you. Okay. Um, other than that, I'm just gonna shut up now. Oh, no. There was something about locum Post. They come in two varieties into your next bit nish. Actually, after the coffee break it, uh, as a lead in the one thing I wanted to just before we do break for the coffee is one of the books that I found useful. Was this book not so much that it tells you what to say, but it has got a lot of questions in it that you can sit and work through. You can work through it in pairs of it, like you're viable practice. Um, it just gives you an insight into the types of things, and it might just trigger you to go away and read about something that's quite good. I'll just show it to you one time Amazon. It's about 30 quid. I have no affiliation to it. But on that note, I didn't do personally do any interview practice courses. There are courses out there for the interview. So I was just gonna throw out to the others. Um, whether they found or did or if they found them useful. Are they worth a few 100 lbs that they charge? Erin, I think you did. Yeah, I did the I see Medical one. Um, and certainly at the time it was online, it used to be face to face, but I think most of them have moved online. Um, I thought it was worth it just for the day. Just to sort of consolidate some ideas, get a few things together. I quite like practicing with people I didn't know. So the black cleaning the session was a transplant surgeon from the Midlands, and it was very different. When you've got someone you've never met asking you questions, you haven't got that familiarity. It just I just found it quite useful. Actually, there's a few different ideas, and there's going over things. But I did their course for it was s h r S t three was useful then. So you just sort of an update for me? I do find that sort of thing quite useful. Uh, I found it. I I didn't attend or particularly I did attend of course many years ago before my ST interview. Uh, but then, uh, and I use some of the things you know, just about your presentation and things like that. But I I did find practicing, so I found a few good colleagues who had done consultant interviews. Uh, and I had a few sessions with them, which was very useful. I don't really want to speak for Mike, but Mike and I certainly spent a commuting going through questions from the book. Uh, so it's definitely a body. I mean, I personally don't like being put on the spot and being asked questions. So working with somebody that I knew worked better for me, and I think it just goes to show that it's a very personal thing, and it's about finding somebody to work with if it works for you. And if you need to go and work with people that you go and practice with people that you don't know because you feel comfortable doing that doing that, do you want to add anything? Mike? No, that's exactly what I was gonna say. I think it's a very personal thing. I know. Obviously, like you say, we weren't quite all together, and I think that for me being put, and I wouldn't have responded very well to being chucked into it, what I felt was unprepared environment with a lot of people. I don't know, um, say I think it's it's just whatever you feel more comfortable with, but I think whatever you decide to do, the key thing, as we've said is, is to prepare and practice. Um, because however you do, it will make a big difference on the day. I think the last thing I just say before we go and have a quick coffee is that actually not to forget that your consultant colleagues will help you with interview practice if you ask them in the same way. If you ask them for Viber practice before your f. R. C s, they will certainly be more than happy to sit and do some interview practice with you. And it may be that you asked consultants that are not in the hospital that you're currently working in. Uh, certainly definitely did the rounds of consultants helping me with interview practice, and it really changed the way that I answered my questions, but still hopefully came across quite natural in my answers, because I was quite worried That, of course, might make me concentrate more on how I answered rather than what I said. Um, Paly has asked a question about do interviews, have practical components. So I'm going to defer that to Ridge, even Erin, about how much interview practice you actually got in those courses. Am I gonna assume that that's the practical component mites asked about? I was more asking, Do they, like, you know, like, uh, s t three interviews. A grown up version of a soul back, uh, in one of my pre interview visit. Um, a knish. Very, uh, nicely asked me, Would you like to take part in this research project and the research project involved doing a saw bone, the rotational osteotomy. Uh, and so it was. It was very much like it was set up, you know, for So I wasn't expecting it, but he's like, Oh, you know what? One of some of my trainees are doing this project. Will you come and saw some bones and stick a plate on? You know, um, now you could take that as, uh, you know, he was looking for any tips and tricks and you know just how confident I was. But it did it all far formed part of the the global picture. You know, of the candidate that was applying. So you never know. You need to be prepared. And if if if you talk the talk, you need to be able to walk it as well. Ok, great. It's three o'clock. Shall we come back in 10 minutes? So 10 past three. Have a coffee, bring one for the afternoon and then we'll have a chat with Nish, and then we'll move on to the breakout rooms and I'm gonna