Pathways to Neurosurgery Training in the UK



This on-demand teaching session is designed to help medical professionals understand the roadblocks to becoming a neurosurgeon in the UK. The session will be led by a junior clinical fellow on the Neurocare Leeds Foundation Trust, and the discussion will include information on the eight-year basic training, the certificate of specialty registration process, and the selection criteria used to choose those to enter specialty training. It will also provide tips on optimizing one’s chances of becoming a neurosurgeon in the UK.
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Learning objectives

Learning Objectives: - Learn about the requirements to become a Neurosurgeon in the UK - Understand the three key steps to succeed on the pathway to becoming a Neurosurgeon (Internal Assessment and Examination, Interview, and Shortlisting and Matrix) - Describe the eligibility criteria for the Internal Assessment and Examination and Shortlisting and Matrix - Examine the options available to medical students and qualified medical professionals who are looking to pursue Yico surgery in the UK - Analyze the competitive selection process to become a Neurosurgeon in the UK.
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Computer generated transcript

The following transcript was generated automatically from the content and has not been checked or corrected manually.

Hello. I never hear me. All right. Come. You could have been like today. Yeah, I can hear you can hear me. Yeah. Look, we're just We're off five. Woman. It was some of you to join a very distant and then we'll record like your room for journalists. Um, migrant, I Yeah. Okay, that's yeah. We're just with about four minutes and seven when it's a strain in the weapon on the crackers. Do you want to make sure you this your first slight damage while just just couldn't issues? Okay, that's honey. Super. You're consuming. No. Yeah. Yeah. Like, Okay. All right, let's start. Think everyone for coming for generous on the first. Tell me what I believe for sick after your surgery. We're joined here today by just June. And who is a junior clinical fellow on the not care last, and it just foundation. Trust me, he's got a kid interest in your secretary on dates written off, published for for papers. Um, with a neurosurgeon. Mean I'm one of those papers is about becoming a neurosurgeon in the UK I'm providing a roadblock for medical students and l a carrier doctors on, but we thought it would be a good idea to invite him along tonight to shave a first. Some insights from that people from off the source is that he's gathered on just share, share with and some of the sense after first tonight, just a brief kind of both of you. So Cigna stands for surgery. Interest Group of Africa on the is to provide a medical students and l A carrier doctors across the Convention Africa Networking opportunities, research opportunities and access to teaching and access to guidance towards the desired surgical and pathways are one of which is neurosurgery. And this is this Spotify within this time and that this weapon, uh, discipline. Um, what we'll do is damage will give us a stock. Um, and then afterwards we'll have a question and answer session. So if anyone has any questions, press you're free to take them in the chat on my pick those up as we're going along, and then we'll put it to a panel, and then I will write My assistant to the stage is well, and so this is Tim Italian on his assistant for this, um, sick off near such a group s. So you know, after the talk, we will feel some questions. And if you look on the left hand side of your screen, isn't this a session? Stab on in that session Stuff. They said there's a cap full networking on. So if people want to go into the session and have the opportunity to talk to one another vest if it is, you have a physical place. You have to do that afterwards. Okay? Handing over two years. Thank you. Thank you so much for the opportunity. Share this presentation. Just come from Can you hear me? And here Looking. Okay. Okay. So just work on that. I'm stuck trying to this and this to be, uh, interrupting. It's possible. So we just thought so. The topic is basically become any restriction in the kingdom. A roadblock for medical students are very correct. And the idea being this is too, Joseph give. It would not something to look forward to in a step by step. Mother, I said how you can get into newer sort of training, and that's a team of just the general off. So the first thing is, what stage are you? A medical medical student Liquor, a doctor or training on. But this is really important to give You are inside us to what the tendons are that you can do to optimize your chances of Okay, so your so your training. So generally are you talking to towards make medical students on daily Correct? Upton's on When you consider your surgery. I think the general question you should ask yourself is, Why do you want to do your surgery with us? Will see from this present a shin It's not Oh oh, she's on Oh, so you should have a strong reason for doing near surgery on a lot of people went to the Neurosurgeon because of on inspiration by Ben Carson or Super. The reason has to be more than that, especially if you want to study neurosurgery United Kingdom in particular as an international little bit. So I'll just do it for that long overview about neurosurgical. It's about it's yes, basic training is about eight years. You go through specialty training from yes, 12 years eight. So do training in the United Kingdom. Primary is divided into coast surgical training where you have your city water city, too, and then you apply it again for higher specialty training. We have your exit. It's ST it. But some specialties have one called run through drinking programs. I mean, when you get at ST one, it's strictly true to ST it's on. The newer surgery is one of them. Usually, for those going through ST Want to yesterday, they have called in national training number, which is controlled by deduction on battery. Um, yeah, but there alternatives as well. There's something called Cesar party, which is the certificates of allergic related to specialty registration. I will talk about that's It's just general of you. You're searching the Kindle, you know, ST Ones, best deeds now, depending on where you are. If you are medical stands on any kind of the outside United Kingdom, you know, there some additions are, you know, before this nasty one test, yet you have to get registered with the General Medical Council. First of all, on then demonstrates that you already so enter specialty training. So your medical students, the first immunities to finish medical school have your intention, then writes the club exams, which I'm sure we are funny. I wish personal an acoustic board exams. So you're right. The first exam, the club one. You're at the club too. And then you apply for GNC registration once you've got to you gentle extraction, um, you would gets what we call a crest form, which is basically a certificate to see that. Yes, you already so enter specialty treatment over who trained in the United Kingdom. Be big, good directly into a call the foundation training, which is equivalent of internship outside United Kingdom. And when they don't get over, call it F p C C, which is basically saying that they're also ready to enter specialty trillion. Yeah, so just to dive into meats off the matter. So there's the application cycle, usually in the United States of the application is central lives through a system called or Oreo on. Usually, the official cycle usually starts around October to November, at least for ST One application. Usually most off the surgical specialties use at sitting on a lasting one level. You put out the applications are out of this point in time on there, some requirements for neurosurgery, so we shot least it for our interview. So once you've got to your registration, the next thing is on your quest form the next next to wait for November, where you apply on after you have applied. If you're successful, you will be shot Me steady for our interview on day after the interview. Get on offer. It is not stressful with us. Put it as there are some things you need to be shortly stayed for until you just a brief background Us how competitive new sort of trainees in the United Kingdom generally less done. Texas lots. Yeah, I looked at for neurosurgical trainees. Actually a list on 20 now, Last I had about 18 or thereabout on. Do you have over, you know, 100 to 1 50 people applying for the slots put in this competition ratio at least about five. So many. You have about five people buying for one slot. Which is why new surgeries one of the most competitive specialty is in genetic. Um, secondly, it's a cardiothoracic surgery, which is everyone which has uneven higher competition this year. So moving on a teaspoon stage off the would not, um, would have assumed that you've got it at medical school. You turn your intention on your written your plot exams, you know, James registered. You worked for a while, and you get the kingdom. You have your crest form on your now hoping to apply for specialty training. Or if you're treating you came from your left one on that, you have to level or possibly actually not looking to apply for your surgery training. This is where it gets pretty. You need to understand how the system works on their free basic things that you need to know. The first one is the nearest surgery shut least in three tricks. The second is a multi specialists. We cook my assessment exam. On the last is the interview. These prisons are what generates your final straw on your liking position on the reason the rank you will be given on offer. Very mind that you can do well. No. These three, um, Mr Slots on you can't be deemed a portable, but because they're about it in slots. There about your wrong C number 20. About 21. He just did that. Get off. Our is very, very sleepy. Okay, so, um, let's start from the newest certainly shutting shot list in matrix. So if you remember, I said that the application is centralized. So many everybody applies through a central system. Really, You put in you feel this sort of questions sometimes. Maybe a quiet occlude. Everything's on this for a portal. They are trained. Assessors are going to do this application that you need on score application. The application is scored against the Matrix. They're about suicide servers, and then you have you double discourse coming from this shot listing matrix in particular. This will be combined with the score from the emissary Underscore from the interview. We'll talk about this in the 42. I'm thinking the sample of the short list in Matrix for 2022 last nine years of selection. Um, the documents. Basically, um, it's really rules everyone free. So our talking about each on every point? No, it's not. When your surgery is, it's usually advisable. Make this decision very early in your career and what's contributing to your chorea so that this was a four year time to start working on some of these things that can improve. Oh, your chances are getting interview because if you decide to leads, you realize that some of these things you may not be able to do them in time before we progress. I should mention that there is on eligibility criteria before you even apply on. This is tied to your experience like it's if you have hot more than 24 months, I believe off clinical experience. Outside your internship year, you'll be deemed overqualified. So apply at ST One cannot say very important number about four months of clinical experience anywhere old. Also, the intention you are overqualified to apply are ST One level I leave. You have more than 12 months in near surgery or any new religious specialty outside of a tradition here would also be deemed overqualified on you have to apply at higher level, which is a very, very, very, very, very competitive. I'll talk about the hell it towards the end. Well, for now, let's talk about this scores and descriptors. As you can see on the left on site, there is to do mean on on the right. On inside, there is the scoring range. Idea of this shot list in Matrix was the Acessa was a sister condition. It's good to give you that's a classical busy on you know this matrix? No, the Matrix get spin stuck and we don't ask for the graduates on Proscar level. The first point looks up here on the ground. It's carrier, you know, if you don't any research, any published research, you know, got a year. If you don't any what it's doing it a very or any cure eighties Or have you got any price? Is onda words You're on another year. So this first point just insists, Select your medical students that have been exceptional, really in medical school. And there's a score in range from 0 to 12 to three. Um, yeah. So, for example, the medical students who has a lot of distinctions currently on us on also published must be wanted to research manuscripts. Well, let me get the maximum points here. I would not get easier here. The next is a very clinical electricity attachments. Neurosurgeons in my field on Expect that you should have put in some form or doing medical school, because then it's a believable that you wanna start with text general surgery on these essentially are people that they would want the specialty. And there's so as I'm talking about to the point, if you just look to the right outside to look at the scoring range for, um, the component of this metrics. Next is higher degree involving full time, or it's not a research. So had the MRIs. I'm sure you're from there after and DBS, you have any other had you have a Masters, but MD. PhD. Um, it's a college degrees are common in the U. K. On in some other countries, but they're not super common in Africa. But some people don't have that. So even have a PhD I got from you know, normal and bs your heart. Um, you had you have a better chance as a post renal someone who doesn't have that. But however, it's just three points you can still rock appoint in other parts off script us. The next is fresh degree in medical science is which is a B A, C B, Mets, I and then other degrees on diplomas. I'm not related to this first over them. This puts credit research, so if you've been involved in a postcard original research that has been published on you can shoot this with evidence. You able to get points for that. Who's got the academic awards on prizes. So if you've been able to get any water price after finishing medical school, which could be, you know, POSTOP prices from presented at conferences, surprises for tree knees or people have got it in medical school. If you have any awards or price cones towards, um, this points this point here, the level of the prices march if you've got in, um, Price on National always laughs. No level you get maximal marks. Or, if it's local, you actually get one. Who's got a clinical. Courses are very important, usually to get maximum wax in it after about 4 to 6 courses. And your surgery, I believe come up with any clinical costumes is it's a great area, really. Course is the definitely counts towards this causes that are granted cpt points by any of the real colleges. Whatever air quality of surgeons, England or revelation surgeons off Edinburgh. Usually these are the horses that counts. It's better that these courses are new surgery. Things crosses to shoot commit. The specialty course causes a visit. Surgical skills on about US trouble that supports are against counts In this regard. Portions are very, very, very important in any surgical training, preferably published in general. So index in pop match off Midline on You or Stand that Beats Arby's, is publishing three month scripts. US First off. I would definitely grant you maximum marks in this category, however, published in other journals or you've had, you know, named author starts off the quarter status. You can still get points here, but just not maximum points presentations. Our conferences also very important you presented, you know, local conferences, original conferences not well. It's national conference is the matter. If a postoperative ones are representations, we also monitor naturally representations. It's a national emotional conferences attract, You know, the highest mark for postoperative intentions are international conferences or a petition original conferences, you know, in the hierarchy. So to see at this point, I can see that, you know, you can double up with triple upon achievements. So, for example, he published on presented the same article counts for, you know, 2 to 3 categories. Um, near surgery. You know this people have done this course surgical training for that. That part is front upon. Well, you're in. It was years of your Yes, that that I can count on. You can't help. Um, yeah. So next clinical audits on quality improvement projects. The HS is very, very big on clinical audits, unquenchable projects because ultimately, that's how the system can prove that it's finally problem on solving the problem on ensuring the problems I have sold. Uh, he will remain so last since off clinical. It's on. You know, some of these things are not too popular, you know, in Africa, in Africa, countries especially so sorry in Africa. So as medical students and any car doctors before commuted, you keep. These are some of the things that your country, you know very, very easily in your local hospital. You know, local teaching hospital tried to conduct small audience or quality of our projects. I tried to get it presented a local or national cold friends that counts. Um, so usually if you've done about suits of three audits on you've done about Sue the three cycles, it's all it's. You actually get maximum marks. You know, in this category you don't on audits published it. I presented it a conference. You can potentially rocko point at least three categories here. Next organization leadership skills again. The level monsters if you take you home, Um, if you represented an organization or anybody at any stage this'll count on, you know, leadership skills because it's shown about you effectively be handled. They did actually prove to the best of the Appalachians on again. The level matters if you've taken in local did actually prove like the house job. Um, how's the representative on that account? Us Look. Oh, on. Then you open up like crowds you're taking originally that she proved that counts for you. I need you thinking it's a nationally internationally that's approved that was called boxing on points. Remember the everything you were discussing here needs people evidence. So you didn't put it. Don't come off the students or you do not have any days. It does not count. So next it's practical on cycle motor skills. Again, this is sort of a gray area. Well, generally, this is the place where you sort of sure your hobbies on through the skills on, you know, the things you have done Generally. It's been said that if you have a national international level of treatment, if force say, for example, the enemy games Germanicus, Junkins National or any medical sort of spotty jets down. And, you know, any event that all that religious to particle of psycho motor skills? Really? You know, you can get maximum points here. There was no but clock up or style here. You know, I've seen people put that deplete it did Rubex Cube. Well, that's before that. I've put that the good video gamers, stomach control drones on pins, a crack. So this is really please where you sort of straw, you're extracurriculars and your hobbies, musical instruments and all of that. But generally, nationality is most valuable achievements. And this kind of grew any maximum points, then this teacher. So if teaching is again, it's another important skill that doctors most have. I'm usually you go to a formal teaching room for more teaching. You possibly have a lot of meat there more straighter, you know. Oh, it's each eye in the medical school. You would get maximum points with this, otherwise just showing that you know, you you've been you're hoping teaching your juniors on your PS We evidence of feedback forms on boss me letters. So should I try to talk to, um this would also, you know, carry some points. Generally, these are the components of the shortest in matrix. It's times in the art or the columns like you did this year, so basically so gauge your interest in neurosurgery. You know, why do you want to the nearest surgery? If it's not, if it's not, why the shot, this thing matrix stage? He would be asked during the interview. So which it always should cultivating, why he wants to do your surgery and sort of beauty. It's off on some of your chorea to 12 reasons why you should Google wrist surgery, which is why this question is very, very, very important. You're going to just, you know, get it's for traction. Your surgery, because he's been wanting fitted by watching a movie or a book you know, have a genuine reason for wanting to do your surgery. But usually at the end of this shut this thing matrix remarks, more points it gets is 42. The previous years it was about 10 on. You have two assessors assessing the sports with you when the stone you're given scores on there are dead to the scores it gets from this exam, which is the M S r E, um, is our is called the mortise specialist. Recruitment assessments on. As the name implies, it's an assessment that just sort of shoes that, you know, you have the basic knowledge needed during residency training on the physical edges. It's clinical. It's situational on. It's all any research it and request the M Asari. Other specialties like general practice off the checks and gynecology off the molecule. The radiology. A couple of the specialist is required the applicant's to sit for this exam on this crew of charge. By the way, situational Georgia and test is one of them. I'm just basically tests how you would react in certain situations. Basically following, you know, the principles off the court medical practice, the good medical practices, a book just like for medical books, you know, if you feel low and do you shave if you inducts in your country, usually a medical council gives you a book on ethics. You know, doing doing that on the good medical practice is the equivalent of that hand UK on on the study. The good medical practice would help, you know, preparing for a situational judgment test. So that's some of them are. You know, that you would come across a long way on, then. The other part of the emissary is critical aspect. Um, yeah. So just two parts of make up the exam on you know, you're giving this core identity exam. The score is then skilled down to on appropriate percentage on. I did too. You know, the results from this one's for you once on absolute score is then got in. This is this score would be used to show least people for an interview. If you successfully skilled through these fears you're then invited for until you traditionally Indians of you is fish to face for recent recent times due to the pandemic, um, jeans have your husband virtual on any interview? The Benicar is in most marks, by the way. So if you're not, don't do good in the fall. Your station? I mean, if not don't went in there. Sorry for you don't want good enough to Gannon's of you. Um, if you perform well, Indians of you, there's a good chance you'll be ahead of the others. Would do well in being something for good. Um, for your scores. Anatomy book and of stations. They give you the content of this interview. Selloff, change. It changes. Our stand goes on. But they're just general things that I should expect. That's a presentation off for Eustation on. There's a clinical station, and the first office went in where, you know, a fist fist traditionally selection center. You would have your port for you on the assessors. Would particular can fool you and ask you questions. Visit on the evidence I presented in the full you. It will also tell you to make a present a shin on why you're interested in doing your surgery or why I want to go near surgery on it. Should be genuine on you proper to get good marks in the station. That's a political stations, which is a good test your or on a bleed. It's work world in neurosurgery department. The stations are not just in the stop beast or later to clinic out, it's seemed against. You're all round ability to excel in your surgeon department of the any chest on fractionally. Of course, the festive look on your surgery scenarios where you're giving a station you know to walk through, followed by a simulation station where, where your communication skills. Just that your beauty so committed with the patients in almost narrowing of the blood, too exams Next is the telephone stations. You need to be a boots to take on referrals in your social department because, as a neurosurgical tree need, part of the duties in the department will be to take referrals from, you know, general hospitals on local hospitals. In months of stuff, for example, that's a big regional nearest on your center. So far on you. Most of the patients are through referrals from everywhere in northwestern, part off Manchester. So your ability to live to take with her house let's make prompt decisions as regards management's 100. Any scenario over the phone or through the system is very important. And it would be You're such a culture on you. Excess management stations always very important to be on a low pressure, and the NHS on there would be figure scenarios common on your ability to manage the situations is what the Examiner will be looking for. There's no right or wrong answer in this station, ready just to see how you do with conflicts, how you do with stress. The last is the practical station. If it's best if it is, there may be a practical station where you'd be out some practical skills, which could read from suture ing to drilling. Possibly treating the ball changes every year. Well, he looked practical. Skew stations usually common Now, if you followed so far, it's that each of this station pretty much mirrors all you'd expect in the nearest surgery department when you walk in us nearest liquid. Trini. And it's just the one around recruitment processed and sure that their recruits in the best off the very best I can easily get adopt adopted to be any chest. Um, yeah, so I've talked about the ST One requirements. I'm just the highlights that there's also the academic of ST One on this academic sort of program doesn't quite for Lew. What I've described for students and Ellicott does that have, um, don't look publications. I'm a keen on research. There's a separate academic path week. You know that you can apply it on when you apply. You have another separate interview which test your skills were, gets to research publications, traditional medicine and all of that, and you don't Well, you know, if you do it in that interview, you would hardly professional slots in neurosurgery. The other benefits off on academic programs that you get funding for about three years. It's a do quality research on you, haven't I? Adoption of getting a PhD, you know before you. One thing is your nearest article training. I think they're about six weeks after the posts in the United Kingdom, and they're very, very, very competitive. And, you know, out of the 18, the Visit Mitic about six slots to see, even if you've got the same training post, so you're still be required to go through this process to be bean appointed. Yeah, I hope we are. Oh, falling so far. So that's, you know, basically the run down off your surgical training. But it's important to talk about the challenges. I'm a native. It's it's but enough that it's very competitive are very, very slim. Chances of getting in. Boy, it's not something to carrots, so challenges that some challenge now you eventually, even if you're finishing the UK, they're still challenges. A face on all of them is unemployment. Um, you know, you surprised about more than 15 year subjects who have qualified because all times do not have training course on the inside. And the reason is simple. This's point in time. You know the Kindle has more. You're certainly understand the need quotes on destitution. Jellicles get worse in the next couple of years on the problem with pieces, you know, because they're so much competition around getting because all times post it's costing a pressure. Or the trainees on the stools are, you know, trying to get us another surgery. For example, in the past 15 years, there's about 30 to 40 slots, possibly more. But because of this bottle neck, you know, meaning more more cause, you know, finishing, finishing training, but not getting jobs. They're hard to start, would you say, in the amount of neurosurgical trainees, you know, that can get into ST one, which is why it's currently on about seen up there about I think the situation gets worse. This lumbar can be reduced about full of it. So ask surgery last I hate. I think it's a lost six or thereabouts, so unemployment is the previous. You're preventing problem. So you're coming to the UK It's a studying, researching I get getting the problem doesn't end there. When you finish is a little problematic. Get a job, Which is why a lot of people in your search of crazy take time off do PhD's Because I finished. Rest assured that most of the people that you would want to your computer and get it cause a lot of post. Most of them will have PhDs, so to see, so you were forced to PhD on. Then you know so after this. So fellowships, possibly 123 years old friendships just so they can get ahead of your PS. So, I mean, if you buy time, we're looking at here at your looking at your picture on your on your training. I realize I have to be a PhD, which would take an extra 23 years. I have to do a fellowship outside. You can. You can just put the conduction of the three years you're looking nuts. Specialty training, a lot about possibly 12 that's in 14 years. Not really. It's 1911 years on. There is most guarantee, but you're good because a lot of post you know in the UK, so unemployment is a big, big issue it's not. Consider is old any time soon or fortunately, which is why a lot of people, you know, I really, really find for the academic training programs because the stubble, you know, get some funding. Get a PhD doing a program the next. The quality off training literally is the any chest is tailored towards service provisional in the service degree. Onda people have said that the quality of training other countries in your surgery is similarly better than where you get a UTI. Duke is tailored towards service, you know, Do your job for the people. Transcript people as best as you can, as opposed to all our systems. For example, in the US, where it's more towards training, training residents take it. Yes, it's two years out to do is set. There's no problem with jobs and all of that. So potentially the quality of training in neurosurgery or the First World countries eyes sort of better what gets in the United Kingdom and this is I give this is agreeable. Really. Um, so some general saying next is recent. I mean, you can't really get well for racism. Whatever country you go to you. This is a pavilion issue. Most of the doctors I referred to get most of your doctors, but I referred to the General Medical Council. People from the block and the manner see ethnic groups on. You know, Jersey has conducted series of investigations, you know, to find out why it really is just just recently in place. It systemic. It's, it's, it's everywhere, and it's all of the programs on challenges. Are you liking fish? Are the knee Oh, it needs to be and it just presses and more. So who's had it on by us? And then there's a lack of support. This is really like of support is really see because if you go through a good hospital, it's friendly stuff. Um, you know the coach, actually, good for you. Well, again, damages is clinically on the start on when you have a free service, you have shooting your stuff. This puts everyone on that pressure on when everyone is enough. Pressure today is in lock off support. Lack of support leads mistakes, mistakes slips to, you know, wishes in on referring refer else. The gym. See, you know fat. So lack of support is a really, really challenge for nearest surgery on your surgery is a really, really busy department. And if there's no support, it could be a really big challenge for us. So these are basically the Salinger's, you know. So your surgical training on you know, it's really, really something to think about, which is why even decided that you want to continue gets doing research. You need to really, really. Um, consider all your options because you're looking up attention fighting for fighting for limited training, slots, spending a lot of money and time. Their research publications audits on all of a lot come off elites realized, I think, to spend more money on more time to PhD's, you know, clinical fellowships. After training. I'm still no guarantee that you're going to get a consultant training, post it in attacking at the level of getting calls off. And you'd expect that racism by us on some of the lack of supper than some of these things will still comin to play. Um, yeah, so the odds are really, really stocked up against, you know, Angie's on people from black a minority groups with regarding your surgery on. It's important you know, like you know all of this. What? You make a decision. So which country or which specialty that you want to train it. So honorable. Mention this. So what if there's no ST one? I mean, what if you can't get interested or you can try to get into testing too s It's just means instead of entrance ST Well, a spreading eight years. You enter ST two and spend seven years. I mean, his sons put that sounds good. I guess potentially for the competition at tested too is even worse. Last year, there was only one slots for S. It's who level. And you would imagine I defends you have to do to get into a C two are higher. And if it is enough to do to get into ST one. So it was actually spent more time, more energy, more money for try and get your post. That's just what you want, Slots. Emotionally, I think observation is about 13 sticking. Um, so s is also another alternative. Weight's really, really, really competitive on, um, knee A possible I mean, just once a lot. The next horrible measure is what we call this is our party. Now for those who are going through ST One ST it's there or would it is sensitive kids off completion of the city. Um, busy, possibly three. Consultant, start off. Known as this is our party. And this is really reserved for people who have done your surgery in other countries. And it comes in UK on you know, the chance you get it cause all counts start us to get on the specialty register by Jim. See, So since our parties for more structured so manner in that you just coming again, implement that, as in your surgical center at your surgical center, you work as a neurosurgeon for don't years. You trying to get something inside, and they're eligible to write, you know, final exam here. Farxiga. Yes. For your surgery, then you know you get a job. Uh, the problem is, for Cesar, it is evidence based. So it means units, evidence. I have achieved all the competencies for ST one to estimate no in the UK Takes it years before. No more tricky. Both was on going through. This is, uh, probably the amount of years is unpredictable, you know, head of cases where somebody the neurosurgeon outside the country from issue, I believe interview can spend about 11, 12, 13 years. You know, just transit, get some documents signs so I can write the example coming course all times. And this is really the case for a minute about going through the seizure part. I mean, they might have spent about 4 to 5 years in your home country near surgery. And then you come to you and spending a 10 to 15 years just so beautiful to get Doesn't want to get on the specialty range of stuff on the weight, because because all that you would still be faced with same bottle neck. You know that everyone facing you know, cause I don't post. And even when I post, you know, all right, they prefer those with the city on you. Um, yeah. So the city does that home train, you know, I got so I'm serious because we really see the I see option was still a good option, you know, for people interested in your surgery. Um, so yeah, I know. I hope I've been able to give you in a vast perspective, Aston. You're such a trainee, and I'm hoping that so this you give you time to really think about what you want to do. Andi decide. I want you decided. You can now begin to work on things they can achieve our garden, their home by which I should you in the service in the tricks offense that you plan to do up there cost is a wards the prices distinctions that, um, this presentation has been published and then also mentioned that surgery. So if you need more information on any of the things that we have discussed the out dealing with this month script in the shared so you can just go and it's open access it after anything you able to reach lot of things off said something committed and detail, especially the challenge is that you know, I am Jesus on I am just fish when coming to get current welcoming you can take and your surgery when they have gotten into You're a surgical drinking. Yeah, I think you have come to the end of this presentation on I would love are now. So the Motrin does. Thank you very much. Thank you very much. Damage for such a thorough overview. Yeah, very, very grateful for you taking the time to give us that about talking to, you know, just to lay out the realities off plan to specialty training the neurosurgery, uh, about the challenges no people have to face. And yeah, just giving them a room up of what they need to do. And so we have a few questions just now and on. Just run through it. So just a reminder to everyone else that was still on the check. Please type any questions. You have it in the chart and we'll pick them up myself in the other. My greatest picture. And so when you read it, then it's the first question. Was, as an international student interested in doing neurosurgery UK Will I have to write both the clap on the emissary? Yes. So you need to write the blood test. Get your Gemzar. Your instruction always wasn't gonna just Gemzar administration. You need to do some other little things like gets in a press form on. Then I play for the national selection. I want you able to right here on this side. So you really you don't need to write the blood exams again. Sorry, at some points, but not at the same time. Absolutely. And so the emissary is a manager percent. That's for for their service specialty training, isn't it? Club is mandatory for an entry into the UK okay? And we have another question. Somebody said they were red on the training requirements, but if you have more than 1.5 years of clinical experience, they can apply for your first surgery training. Is that true? It's transformer. It's not more than 24 months off clinical experience. Outside of the foundation training you can apply at ST one. Um, well, you have more than 24 months. You can apply it to level, which, like I said, it's just one slots that was available. National or lands? Very competent. Yeah, And just to add to that. So yes. So with Augusta after to entry, Although there was only one spot available at the advertised one slot on this year, this round of applications, unfortunately, they got to the end of the process, and they actually withdrew the slopes. So it's it's Yeah, So you have to take this into the paint yourself, this one. Okay, so we just have some practical questions from people. How do you get access to recording on would decide to be available afterwards. So two things. So we're hopeful that this has been recorded. I wish it at the local for viewing lift on on the event page. Because this neurosurgery page, if that's not the kids, what we can do is we live. I live my email address. So if people have difficulties, Colton, um, access in the recording, I put my email address and chat is to feel free to reach out and we'll make we'll make the court the slight available to you that Okay, right. I think those are questions just now, please to post up in the chat if you have any other questions. Okay. So somebody doesn't come and get a certificate of tendons for the portfolio? Absolutely. They'll be a certificate you get afterwards, but you have to complete the feedback form. Okay? That will get sent out to you after I can. In this and the other question. Any other questions? Just take them in the chest. And if any of the moderate was on, you have any questions or classifications? Least if you trust them. I have to so question for you, then. So looking at your the way, your structure, you're talking to a stop to the paper and it looks like you're guaranteed officer to what's in person interviews. Yeah, so talk about the telephone referral station. The practical, like want the referral station. So a couple of us, obviously interviewed at this year on the stations were very, very minimal. It was just three stations. This it's a portfolio. Stations were. That's a number of questions about motivation that you talked about in the clinical scenario, which was just to clinical scenarios, you know, involving kisses and then management scenario again, which is just one long steel of everything were wrong. Um, there's just two questions with that. Do you think that's because they don't like 32 years in a row now, where it's been online? And do you think that they're likely to keep it just a speculation? Do you think they like to keep it as online? Um, interviews going forward, uh, onto youth all do you think is going to collect? You know what it was before that and yeah, How would you How do you know? Counsel to prepare differently for online interviews but still interested. It's a bit tricky, you know, as to whether the next one is going to be in person or online. Well, I think it would have to look up the trend. How things are changing, definitely online is easier official, but traditionally in person. I always wait, even though it's a wicked bad. I think things will go back to physical next year because I could be sort of reached the blood to On. Everyone is comfortable. Corbett trucks were saying that they're using. That's initial times less on this is, um, I was looking at an interview for next year, February March. By then I expect that, you know, the entacapone discussion is going to be up on endemic states on. Expect that it took about a fist fist. If you're funny, the trend now you can see that love conferences on no first of this highlights want to see that you can start bringing the amount of people to particle are location. It's really not every know there's nothing stopping, but people are conducting the in seven years. This one, you're certainly to bring things about three fist office. I don't ever been, in a sense. Yeah, so yeah, just full of the trend. There's a high chance. I believe that things will go back through. Um, just when your surgery for oh, across all special true Chris rands this for next year with Thins Giusti Virtual Virtual. It's, um it's quite unfair. Some people actually do better actually interviews while some people do better with first Office. And some years I'm not too sure how the council's to prepare for the first choice for you. Another just, you know, be confident There's a high chance that a lot of people would display the same level of knowledge I would have similar in size. On what? Maybe difference is probably just in the manner way because the money money lesion presented. So if two people so candidates give the same exact answer for this, um, exaction area, I won't Candidates was able to show more confidence on call for managing this area. Supposedly other candidates, subjectively speaking examiner, could possibly give 23 or more marks. So see, so one candidate supposedly are candidates. So the only advice I can from my experience and Rachel interviews anyway, it's that it's it's more the manner. Which the answer? No, I supposed to the answers themselves, but I think I think it's going back to fish. Let's just look at the trends off conferences I'm going to be coming up around. Stepped in about 2 December. We see that all of them are the surface. Then there's a high chance stop. Um, the national election next year. It's going to Pierce Face is all. Yeah, and of course, that's that, you know, in as much as the only three scenarios in virtually interviews, thie a move, much less election released. Make sure that people got selected he'll. So there's an all round, you know, probability of tests each and every thought's off. You know, walking in your social department. It seems like practical skin is very very. It's always been traditional in near surgery on you. Too much oxygen off things now that's been removed. I'm guessing I don't He got to bring that back as well as some of the other stations stuff there. I'm always some of the stations fist of this, like stimulation stations, It's, um, it's a natural first of this scenario phone cost issue in simply the natural scenario with you in the room on your picking up call. So I think, you know, I think I have one next year. It's going to be squeeze my physical. Well, I don't know. Oh, thank you. Very well. So I have a question. I just met about these dissenters that between four months type refuting on a plane. So my question is like, we won't be points you're lighting for the neurosurgeon. Metric sports like two levels were an optical life in Nigeria. Like a built in to show to you, Kate, for your surgery leads, I have. You know what it's like over all those points in that time frame? I give you that some day like this. Push graduates on collected three that we don't have here. That was They have researching people. Consider you find out you will be posted, then ship. You feel like that type of the realistic diaper together. And yes, the one so true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's a lot you can do in and five more. 5 to 6 months even. Is this what you can do? You can't. You can't get a little present. Asians. You can't get a publication of publications out, you can get an audience hours. Um, so final years? Not really. So you need to sort of see if I I'll tell you the perfect because you're doing your internship here. You would be having this nearly at the back of man. You be able to and sure that you get some of these projects out there if you see you know some of your registration because all times doing projects and joined them and to those projects or better still, you need those projects. Um, you should, But it's in your local hospital. I think it's not too late would be possibly three years post credits. Doesn't talk about your your two minutes. Or maybe he prescribed it to the booth. That friend out here, there's lots are you gonna do on that? Bounces off, you know, or Sega Cigar brother. It's transferred to make sure that the medical students and any car that was our way off. You know, some of these things already benefits. Then that's the cool. I hate it. Research on medicine during my medical school. Yes, because I simply did not know the importance and there was no organization a long night given to readjust to do research. I'd even without a different types of competitions, all that that was just No, let's let's do the practice. But thankfully know my mental has changed on, you know, we're trying to, as you must have seen a normal person, that many, many things you can do because there's a card. Whatever country are hoping to socialize, it's even in country itself. Yeah, all right, thanks. Thanks a lot dot me for the presentation, so it's very good. I think there's a question in the chart. It says Why medical student? Most you'll be the first off your research to be considered on was a publication being your surgery based. So first or third attract maximum dose higher marks done being the course. Unfortunately for near surgery, the the specific descriptors are no public knowledge. So see, unfortunately, when we check that off similarly competition switch out like cardiothoracic surgery. You sort of get a night year. Um, so the school marks little marks. It's a breast or four publications in that recent 30 people are special to need it now when you mark similar marks. But if you've been test Also in just maybe one publication. All you've been, you've been a course, or in about 3 to 44 occasions. That would end you about two points or thereabouts. Any example? Because Sean full stuff about one point. So, as a medical students, as much as you want to be course, there's no reason why you cannot be First off, you've got the first of the competition in medical school as and you might and you very well. I'm not off points in your recovery. I mean, I know you know, go to the point in publications on Actonel because it's on the first off for the high chance that your projects will be accepted at our shots conferences on your beverage, one as a medical stand. So attend these conferences. So your medical student and really, now is the time. Look up a full year. I got things you can do so always infests or thoughts, papers if they're coarse or any projects you stop project to let so that next projects you'd be a first awful in that project and just to are mostly publication department indexed, or can you just publishing anywhere, really? Will that give you points. It's a great area again for for for course, surgical treated, you know, not seen before. The specialties quite clear that you publications most department in next. But for me, it is not a big deal is and all that type This is like a scoop of NBC's. You have some big general is that I'm not yet. Maybe next. So this is why I can't really give you a definitive answer. What I can say that if the Journal is a predator, don't know. It's not going to go to that because it's the least of your genitals. Did you see the pitch? If money is a permission, those will be considered, Uh, but I'll advise you to try to aim for permitting extra needles. Yeah, General was in Africa, put made in next one African Medical Journal, for example. You know, it's probably the next what I want, so I figured that put me in the next hour. You're very receptive to articles from Africa, that kind of information. Also, if you have the opportunity to choose which article which research what you're trying to get into a trance, Find out on the author which General he wants to publish it because it is when she's in a local general that is not permitted. Next. It's better. You just leave that on. You know, focus on something. You got worse while you can get from. I hope that's not the question. Yeah, Thanks a lot. Thank you. Any other questions from from the participants in the audience? I'm sorry. You have a great anything. Doesn't have permission on this just in the chest. So how do you ever then cycle motor skills like? Well, yeah, I could you give them your meadows? Do you give them a certificate? You pictures of your celebrating a trophy or something? Argue every dance it. So I think you off across. Um, not only most soft, so to say, has hardly look at the breakdown part of value for psycho motor skills, which also mirrors what you see in the cardiothoracic surgery breakdown. The receptacles. Drastic surgery ST won't break down. It's very it's almost identical to your surgeon. Tells about equipment, some more detail. So that's going mark. Small marks. You're not due me. Just get nationalities, have a lot of sports. Maybe represented your trust or your medical school has a show on international. They're full or maybe one in national, a special no chest competition. You know something, you exceptional that will get you maximum marks except extensive, but especially in the sports, or know the activities. And maybe you're paying job Excuse you find it drawn, you know you have. They get pictures it documented and pictures also count. He's like dots. Just show in courts that you had extensive participations. All these activities gets you between 1 to 2. Minimal will be one. Of course. It's just so it's very hard. I mean, if you don't have the national it Sunday in sports or the arts arts trees there, you know, if you drop on, you have, like, a national level outward, so to see. But we also called, um, but again, if you do not have the national honor, which I think most people would not have the Strattera coping the extensive evidence of parts, especially common activities like arts design interested in tick is also counted as well. There's like Jess, you dropped me just pictures count. I know someone who got into dusty one. In my trust. What she puts was a fist through books Cuba. I wasn't pleased that you put on evidence on him playing your rescue. I think it was a competition for that or something. So, yeah, it's a great area. Not that I know you have that that's good. You know, it's just right. I watch every day and it's always activities. Um, it's possible just for those In Nigeria, for example, there's the M E. Kim's generally conception Do this national games to see, become just going, participate and get it's It's a bit of a special Well, if you're part of, you know, So we need seeing. I guess that's it gets out differently. Counters just relax it. Thank you very much for coming in to show you insights. Just looking at the chart to see if we have any more questions. Do continue to push the questions and tragedy happen. And everyone, um, on at this stage just to remind people if we have the look questions here or you would like to chat or the members, all the people who have joined the cold is a network concession. Well, you can speak to one of them. You could bounce, I guess off on the mother and dad has kind of giving you the pathway. It's told you a lot of the things that you need to do. You need to start thinking about it. You need to think about them s so you can get things on you. See you. Um, as we've mentioned, you know, this is Cigna and your surgery in a surgery entrance group of Africa, and we're trying to make the process as easy as possible for you to make it easy for you to get that research bushel to get exposed to presentations and so just give you the information. But it's not spread to the available elsewhere. So make it a priority as well to join drink the mechanization that will continue to put this events for you going forward. All right, So if you have any other questions, please please put them in the chat, um, or draining or conception after and on. And that was just a quick question for you Eyes. There is a point at which medications can sit up Or is this something you know, consider as medical students would encourage him to sit really? So they know it's out of the way. What did not do it again in 10 years? What won't share a condition? Well, I think, as a requirement, right? Right club. You need to have finished medical school. At least, um, I didn't give myself anyway. I would have to consider, to be sure, but I think it needs a finish medical school, at least so to wrap up on the fact that it's actually gets I'm being Michigan. I'm out of the week. I'll test, which is written, noticed up. I don't know, because, you know, we're not doing this for it's, uh, just, I don't know, just just just the trick. XL What advice of the medical sense. You didn't you finished? Step. It's It's not really easy, and they accept you have some pretty constant or something really, really easy. So when you finish medical school, um, the next first thing it's a regular meals. I was mostly with you after deficient in ships, right eye on some stuff. We want to be as fast as possible because you know the express limits. Is it you did have. Your medical school could be right in the aisles exam. You can take the problem except your intention didn't finish it. Actually, you take the block. Two exams on you apply for in the Gemzar and destruction. I don't want you. Don't that you get a job. You too. I I would advise, not prefer to get a job of your surgery, at least for six months or one year. I didn't go apply for. They're full selection. Just have sort of idea of how things are going to use three departments, which I can assure you. Here's 100% difference with politicians are back home. I walked in your surgery *** for for more or so you know, when I came here. So yeah, as a medical study just because of insurance. Look at it for you. Everything you can to try to get some research. Try to do our audits. Sick Off is running audits course which I believe should attend. Not in the cards are pending. Next two sessions. No. So I get kind of small audience. I come to you get presented. I don't like to start walking. It's it's possible if your plan will Oh, good. Good. Anyway. Well, yeah, yeah, And just one question for you to qualify. So Obviously you mentioned about the experience capsule with 20 for no more than 24 months. Clinical experience there. Any other sorts of express cut at that? People should be mindful of its own. Yeah, usually they did that suit major ones one answers from 1000 foundation year on one on 12 months off. Newer surgery experience or any new experience, Your surgery, you intensive care, your petition, your collagen. It has new a lot of it. Don't stay that without salt ones after the intention. Oh, that's what you've done that you know, you have a good two extra, which I think it said it's no more for your windows. So yeah, so the gray area actually use without the first year I've study internship would count us the f white. So, uh huh, in the UK so that actually the area. But, um, I feel the ocean about generally qualify This I would have said it's the first time for months of clinical experience. I said, if you treat us at UT restaurants was off nickel experience of a couple of the foundation here. Um, what is this about? Last year Didn't say for this year since we change? Um, very, very flaky departments. Uh, well, yeah. So just the man for Mr Fins. Don't get what answers from what's outside. Trump. Yeah. Onda, would you recommend services? You advise people coming across to go straight into walking in your surgeon department and obviously that, you know, things that can apply to, such as a stand alone foundation. You know, you're one of centralization your two programs, which would still keep them in it. So, you know, they wish you can get around the the experience could be Yeah. So yeah, that's what the delivery set the first week he finished outside of UTI the first two years would let's become it. Any organ experience outside? Yes, we'll be counted. So if, for example, you spent two years in Algeria walking outside of your one, your intention on you come to the UK as F to stand alone, which technically is actually training in courts and should not count because of where the sprints it was already. Three year. It's a year. So oh, really? Always walked as you know, has a natural doctor. So to see you would be concerned about 25 what they said is once defeated to check up any or nothing outside When I be found in know it's also about the count it be the training program. What about the counter? So, um, for now, I'm just trying to do what you can do. It didn't affect that for months of your intention. That's that's the advice. Stand alone will protect you for a course of the core training differently. Words were know protects from of neurosurgery. They count the festival hormones again. This is last year, but I thought about things change just yet. Them you talked a lot about the challenges and how difficult news that the treatment is to get into, um obviously people who are on this weapon who want apply, very dedicated working. But given the challenges off this implication here in the UK, you know, you said about technical options, So would you recommend that people think about plan to different? Many different places are looking perfect world. I mean, I mean it. The best advice I would give someone who's studying their surgeon. You case, this is not Uh huh. It's a look because there's at every level, you know. The challenges are off the same magnitude. It really just changed mosques, so to say, if it sort of gets worse, other prediction by the SBN on the workforce is that this problem is I'm going to, uh, that it's it's really good to keep prices going to take it off. Yes, before it gets better. Um, if I it's it's almost like that's a better chance to study research in the US because it's it's the competition relation Court, you know, is a smaller dose. Because with your crosses in us, um, so no bone advice called study neurosurgeon UK is not. If you have a change in the court, if it's, you know, school, it's a It's a new interest in that specialty. That definitely the best price. Well, you've chosen near surgery on your dad short you can you want? Um, I mean, then you know the best mother walked to do so When the wrong advice is, don't spend the near surgery. That's good advice. I didn't research your pro. Probably you can. And if you decide that was in your in your key, they had enough lot of walks. Thank you for that. Thanks for that. Any other questions anyone else in the checks, Maybe start thinking about went down? Uh huh. So just a reminder to everyone who still on so joined Cigna joined the neurosurgery. Um, okay, we have lots of exciting things on a lot of opportunities for you to get involved with. So please, a dick it not on that. I'm on just the reminders. And with most that advertise this yet what will be putting on a similar webinar about a month from now? Okay, so that'll be pathways to neurosurgical training in the U. S. Okay, so do please come dryness with that one as well. It's been, hopefully the speaker. You right off right off this picture. Okay, if the little questions, then I think we would just call it a night there. Okay. Thank you very much for your time. Thank you dot Thank you for getting this one. Right. All right. Good night. It run