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Okay, everybody set. We've got a very tight turn around here, so I want to make a start. And this is an important subject which I know people will want to engage with. And I'm hoping our Panelists will give us their thoughts in about four minutes each. And that should give us a little bit of time at the end. Hopefully, hopefully to take a few questions from the floor and just give you an opportunity to pick up on some of what you've heard and and we're talking here about collaboration. Were talking about, um, integrated care planning. And we're doing it through the mental health lens. And we've brought together a panel of individuals who can, I suppose, share their experiences and share best practice. Um, I will introduce them just individually because it just means that I can keep a little light eye on the timing's, but you're all very welcome. And thank you very much indeed for giving us your time. I think you're gonna come over here to do your presentation, and then we'll do the little Q and I session from over there. If that's okay, so can I first invite Martin daily who's a service user consultant at the Belfast Trust to share his thoughts with us. You're welcome, Martin. Hello, everyone. Just go off the subject. We met anybody who's GPS or doctor. And if anybody's got constipation problems, put them up here because this will clear it all out. Um, just, uh my my point of view is coming from the service user point. Um, where I am now, Service use a consultant within the Belfast. Just that kind of sounds as if it's elaborate and big, but what it is is now that we are not able to have an input into the services, which is very important to us, to my family and to our communities. And I was very thing here to Tennessee, the names of the things that's kind of happening here, you know what I mean? I think the ambition now for us we have recognize Asian of mental health. It's everyone mental health is going to be part of our lives. Mental health can go in the families, and we all become involved with it. My mental health didn't just happen to me. It happened to all my family, my Children and all. So my ambition was that hard. I become a father again, hard to begin to move forward again, and we're moving within the service user movement. Our own basic was to ensure that our voices were heard so we can actually begin to change and enhance the service. And that's been an ongoing gold. And what I would say to you, no matter where you're coming from, is there's nothing can happen unless you've got the people who are using your service involved and being part of that. When we kind of started this, we did help people who turned and said, No, this won't be happening. We will, we will. We don't need these people in here or we have people who turned around and says that you know, I work with that person. They weren't great. But I can tell you, and a lot of people know here is because you're a bad patient doesn't mean you're bothered what you do, and there's lots of people who are really good at what they do, and what they want to do is enhance the service. Now where my problem is, my issue is my concern is the mobilisation is have we got the right systems in place. Have we got the right policy is in place. Have we got to write protocols in place and have we got the right people in place? Because sometimes if we haven't got those things, that's when things begin to slow up. I know now that we have peer support. Peer support doesn't happen unless we had people who really have the mind bringing people into our service. We have peer support people here right now, listening and taking on people's lives and helping him to see. And it isn't so much of what appear worker is doing. It's what the person is seeing in the peer worker, and that's what really enhances and takes on people's lives. I would say to you today mental health is in a far better place than what it was maybe 15 years ago. It doesn't look at it if you're looking for me and said, but someone who's our I would say that we have moved how we moved far enough, not a chance. Are we ready to move more? Yes, but how hard we need? We need our communities to be involved. That's why we've got partnership. Nothing can help with that partnership. We work with our communities, which is very important. Sometimes we have to say things to our communities because sometimes our community can be very stigmatized against the people who live. We have worked on 1000 projects where we wanted to put up people for people with people, mental health issues. We went to the community. They said No, not here, not nylon. Don't mind doing it down there, but not an island. I know that there's concerns within the police about how much they go out, but we're talking about vulnerable people here. We're talking about people who really need our help and support. Is the police the right person? No. But are they a pathway to get the right thing? Maybe at that time, because maybe they're not there. We've got to psychologist here. We've got to carry this year what we need to be doing. They need to be in partnership with the people that are working with. We have great conversations about how our lives of chains do conversation in Beijing been through medication, but it was through the actions of an individual and I would say every individual in this room has got a part to play. Please play your part. Please take on whatever we can do. Service users within your service and within mental health need the partnership of other people to move on their lives. Thank you very much, Martin. Thank you very much indeed, for that. Let me welcome up our second contributor to this session, Doctor Maria. Okay. And who is the chief executive of the Southern Trust? Good afternoon, everyone. I'm glad I'm not being asked to speak about being a chief executive, because I've only done that for five months. But I have been familiar with mental health services for the last 30 years. I'm delighted about the introduction of the concept of integrated care services because I think for any of us who worked longer term and mental health services, it's completely intuitive as a way of working. Uh, and I suppose you know, we listen to an a one patch this morning talking about health as well. I I suppose the message has always been that we don't have any health unless we have mental health. And I think when we look around the room and we look around the conference. Uh, Michael said to me that he expects 750 people to attend over the next couple of days. And, you know, the reality of that is 150 of us. At some point in time, we'll have suffered from mental health issues. And when you compare that with the 15 people among us who will have suffered with diabetes type one or type two, it begins to show you the scale of of why this is so important for us in terms of, you know, providing good, robust holistic services, which is very much in keeping with, uh, the dose of the health service and particularly the the ethos of mental health. So I've been asked to think about integrated care services based on on my experience, and I suppose, you know, important. And all of that is our value base. We're all very familiar with the value base of the N. H s. And again, I think if we are absolutely authentic and truth to that, it should be able to see us through these great opportunities that we will have over the next period of time for enhanced partnership working. We know that particularly and Pet, we'll talk more about that. I imagine. You know, we take the biopsychosocial approach to mental health, and actually, that's essentially what the holistic approach of the integrated care services should be about. We know that it will demand of us to be creative, to be problem solvers and to be collected in our approach. And again, I think we have a strong tradition of that for any of us have been involved in community services. And again, for any of us who have come through this kind of a system, Maslow is really large. So it's all about physical and psychological safety about being able to build relationships about helping people develop self esteem and then self actualize, actually really realize the potential. We know that of any service, the active treatment part is usually only about 20%. What's really important is the whole social determinants of health and how they determine not just how we live on a day to day basis, but our health outcomes. So actually having the opportunity to bring all of this together is hugely important. We know that the focus in terms of integrated care services are around, uh, an increased focus on outcomes. Uh, for example, in mental health services, you've reduced life expectancy of 17 years if you have a severe and enduring mental illness, health and equality. And again, we're all very familiar with the awful situation that some people increasing numbers of people are facing over the next period of time in relation to poverty and exclusion. We know that we've got to be productive, and we take great pride in providing value for money. And we've We've heard about that this morning and also, you know, part of the the aspiration of the integrated care service is really to have a broader social and economic develop. Mental focus really threw this in England, where they talk about the legal duty of the triple cream. So my reflection in terms of, uh I suppose the last 30 years and what I've learned is that I I lived through and probably the oldest, uh, professional still working in mental health these days. But, um, I went through the system where we actually turned down 50% of mental health beds in Northern Ireland to develop community services, and I think what we were always particularly proud of is the fact that we had developed really good community services to offset that we've given people back their lives in the community, and we didn't have to resort to the to the private sector. So in England, for example, as they closed the beds, they're open 10,000 private beds. We never did that in Northern Ireland. I think our strengths are that we are experts in training in the community. And again, we're good at doing that. In Northern Ireland. We have a strong focus on population health. We know how important our communities are to us. We focus on data, we form really strong collaborations. And I think this couple of days really highlights that in terms of how important this sense of connection really is in learning from each other, and also and particularly with in mental health services. You know the patient is king, so we regard them as an expert in their own experience. We think about how we engage and educate and power and employ, and again, I think across the system there's a huge amount that can be learned in the integrated care services in relation to all of that again. You know, there's there's something about how we positively take risks, uh, and that we are Early adopters have changed. All of those things are really fundamentally part and parcel of mental health services, but actually will be really important in terms of integrate great care services going forward. So just finally, I suppose my reflections in the last 30 years have been that collaboration could have been better. There were opportunities that were missed, and often it was to do with silos and competitiveness and all of those things that actually I don't remember the details but probably held us back. We were ambitious, but we were not demanding enough. And I think that that's an important thing to think about because very often you need to be fairly straightened in terms of being able to deliver what you need to deliver and not forget that we could have been more patient centric, and Martin talks about the experience of being an expert service user. I don't think we have promoted that as well as we could do, and we have a huge amount to learn in that space. We could have been more supportive towards the community and voluntary sector. We could have worked better with primary care services. Uh, in terms of digital ad adaptation, I suppose or anxiety is that we lose some of the benefit that we derived through coated. And also, I think one of one of the things that we probably could have done better over the last 30 years was to really concentrate on young people in terms of really improving their understanding of the importance of their own lives and also how to improve their own health and how to access health services, health and social care services as and when they needed. So thank you very much. And I'm delighted that were on this journey. Maria, thank you very much indeed. Without further ado, let me introduce Doctor Petrick or who is a consultant, clinical psychologist and director of mental health, learning disability and Community Wellbeing services at the Northern Trust Petra. Thanks Mark. Just following on from Maria's update for all of us in reminder for all of us around the importance of integrated care. I suppose I'm reflecting on the increasing importance of integrated care and partnership, working across mental health services over recent years and building up on that. The minister on World Mental Health Day last week launched the implementation plan for the Regional Mental Health Service and you have heard and remind us this morning that that really is an opportunity for us to develop regionally consistent, locally based integrated services and the integration needs to be core in that enable us to develop high quality services. We know that services need to be delivered around people. That makes sense. That's particularly important in mental health services. It's all about the relationship. To be people centric, as Anna remind us this morning is absolutely crucial in our delivery of transformative care, So we must start where people are. We must think about the places where we find people. We must think about communities, about schools, about work places because within the heart of the community, that's the opportunity for us to build and to affect change in all that. We do so by building services within local communities in partnership with family GPS, primary care services and with the community involuntary sector. We have an opportunity to support people earlier within their journey and to implement early intervention to reduce the risk of people development more serious mental health problems because doing this in a timely way will make a difference. And that's what it's all about for all of us. So in aggression is at the heart of the regional Mental health service and we see it as a real opportunity moving forward for us to implement the mental health strategy. We have lots of examples across Northern Ireland within mental health services of this type of integrated approach. However, as Maria has said, and as Martin has referred to, there's pockets, there's opportunities. There are areas where things have worked well, but actually the main challenge for us is spreading scale. But I suppose one opportunity that I would like to reflect upon today is the example of strong integrated partnership working through the enhanced primary care teams. So in partnership with secondary care, mental health services in the local C and D sector, primary care services have an opportunity to work with people and support people in local communities to find individuals who are distressed and to support them in there times of need. So within my local area within the northern area, we're lucky to have the beautiful causeway Coast and within the Causeway Coast. We have the Causeway GP federation who have had the opportunity to develop an enhanced team in primary care. And within that we have a fully staffed mental health service. And within that service we have strong, effective partnerships between the primary care team, the mental health services and the local CMB sector, and that gives us a fabulous opportunity to develop pathways to support people as early as possible in their journey and their distress. But I suppose the reality is that mental health issues are much more and much bigger than can be delivered in health and social care. Mental health impacts on all parts of our lives and mental health and mental health issues and our well being are impacted because of issues across all parts of our lives. So we knew that, for example, mental health is caused by poverty by loneliness, by childhood trauma by experiences of abuse, the domestic violence but long term physical health conditions by addictions to alcohol and drug issues. And there's probably not one person in this room that hasn't in some way been touched by one of those things I just listed so What we need to think about is how we develop resilience in individuals and in communities, how we interface at points in people's lives that allow us to make changes in ways that will make a difference as early as possible. Because none of us want to develop severe mental health problems because when we do develop severe mental health problems, that then impact on on our ability to hold down a job, to look after our Children as well as we want to look after them, to support their education and to engage in enjoyable leisure activities. It's all consuming. So we want as agencies working together to think about those points for intervention because there are many points for intervention and there are many agencies that have an opportunity to intervene. And I suppose when I think about this, I think about an example that we have across many councils in Northern Ireland of the support hub, and many of you may know a little bit about the support hubs, but they're a great opportunity to bring together the key agencies hosted by the council attended by Nias by trusts by primary care by education by the Housing executive ups and I and everybody comes together into a space and thinks about one individual or about one family, and works together to understand what might be the formulation of what's going on for that family. How might we intervene to support that family in a new year? More refreshed way. That isn't just our typical silos working separately. So how do we bring ourselves together in a more integrated thought process around that individual or that family? And I think the support hubs with the opportunity to have that joint formulation informed by a biopsychosocial approach, really enables us all to then go off and do your own things to come back together and to coordinate and to make a difference. And there's many stories across the whole of Northern Ireland of people who have been impacted by the support hubs. People who attended uh, the department very frequently, people who phoned me as and Bs and I on a very regular basis and how, with those joint formulations and more creative approaches with CMP partners with education and so on how we've been able to do things differently. I think they're a great example of an inspirational low cost, low tech solution of bringing people together to think because, really, where there's a will, there's a way and I suppose, the challenge for us. I think moving forward at this time of financial structure of work, force pressures of all the miserable things that we know about is really for us not to be inward looking because I think the challenge sometimes as we come into these these times, can be to think. How do I protect my organization? How do I protect my area and actually what we need to do? And I think the challenge for us is is to create the ecosystem that allows us to do it differently. The ecosystem that allows us to sit back and think, well, we've always done it that way, but is that necessarily right? And I think somebody referred to earlier. That's our phrase that we have around here, which is if it was going there, I wouldn't go from here and quite often think it's that way with in services. So I think there's an opportunity really for us at this point and the challenge for us with all the challenges that we have around work force and finance and pressures that we know about and waiting lists for us to think about understanding all our agencies across Northern Ireland, all our departments pressures and to think differently about how we solve them. Because actually, if we work together, we will be in a better place to solve each other's problems. And ultimately, it's about solving societies issues, because that's what all our responsibility is. So I'm delighted to be here, and I'm delighted now to hand over to our other colleagues from other agencies to will allow Mark to do the introductions. Thank you very much indeed for that, just mindful of the time. It's it's tight, but we can fit everybody in and hopefully get a couple of questions. Let me introduce our fourth contributor to this session. Um, not the Chief Constable, unfortunately, couldn't be with us, but we're very pleased to have the Deputy Chief Constable Mark Hamilton. Well, good afternoon. And, uh, thank you very much for the invitation. And if I may just indulge myself for one second and say that that, uh, as a deputy concept, but more importantly, as a as a father and a husband and then end user of the National Health Service and a lot of your products. And I just want to say I think you did a tremendous job, and I'm very grateful on behalf of my family and also behalf of the police service for all you did in the last three years. And I think it's important that people like me acknowledge that both privately and publicly. So thank you very much for all that you do. That's tremendous. Um, thank you. Um, so we're in this together, folks, is my primary message around managing mental health in our communities? We are absolutely in this together, but I want to put a few questions in the room for May. So I'm standing here in the peace uniform over there. My colleague Paul is staying in peace uniform. He's got a pharmacy s spray, a button on the radio. If somebody If somebody in this room goes in the mental health crisis Now, what do you want us to do? Because thousands of times of the year, we will be the people who come to you first. So if somebody happens right now, do you want us to get involved? Most people will, um tonight we could be in your house dealing with someone who you love, and you watch them getting tasered or hit with an impact round or handcuffed or wrapped up in leg restraints or spitting bite guard, put over their head or all of the above, to try and deal with the mental health issue we're going to These thousands of times a year are our response unit, which deals with higher end firearms and life incidence goes to 563 of those types of incidents every year. Um, 20 people were tasered last year by the police service who were a mental health crisis. My question The room is is right. It may be lawful. In fact, I'm very confident that the work is lawful. That we are highly trained and highly professional is complaint of human rights. But is it right that if you're standing on the Queen Elizabeth Bridge tonight and you want to throw yourself in the water, that the person who's going to be wrong and who who will get into the car in the driveway and come to you at high speed as a police officer to try and talk you off the bridge and not clinician. That's how our mental health services immediate response is manifesting itself more and more in Northern Ireland. And my plea to you is that we are more than willing to be there to protect you from people who want to harm you physically. But we need more help. We think that worked collaboratively to get better outcomes for people here in mental health crisis, Um, and to decide if there's more chance to use less force on people to try and resolve things to their benefit to the benefit of the community and to the benefit of uh of the system. Um, you know, we have the multi agency triage team which works in Belfast. The weekends. It's probably the best example of collaboration that I've seen where we had an ambulance service, mental health professionals and police working together to go two incidents or to try and treat the triage them all out. It's pilot because no one can afford to keep it running. It only works in Belfast. I believe the ambulance service are no longer able to contribute. What does that say about us all collaboratively in terms of getting the right outcome for a community. How do we balance demand verse resource versus our duty honor roll and the deputy comes to the police service. I have to do this every day, understand all the drama around training, resource, money, demand, health and safety, legal obligations. And we've all got the same stuff on our desks. But we're all working, probably in more silo than we ever have been. Why is it that 60% of people who come into custody in Northern Ireland will get a nurse lead provision inside the police station? Another 40% won't, because, quite candidly, people like me have to work with five different trust to try and get single agreements to do one thing across the entire Northern Ireland. Don't interpret that criticism. Interpret that as a plea and an offer from me to work with you to get better outcomes for the people we all care about. Who are our families are neighbors are friends and the people who are dying in our streets with with the 14% increase in drugs rate of death this year alone in Northern Ireland, behind which we all know there are quite severe mental health issues. So the scale of the problem is huge. But the opportunities, I think are even bigger. The opportunity massive for us to collaborate legally, collaborate morally, collaborate ethically and collaborate financially to do things better for the people in Northern Ireland. And that's why I'm so glad to be here today just to throw a bit of this in the room and offer back to you all my willingness on behalf of our organization to work with you, uh, to help people get better outcomes. Thanks. Um, Mark, thank you very much indeed for that. Finally, let's hear from growing along. Who's the chief executive of the Housing Executive branch? Good afternoon, everyone. I'm trying to imagine in four minutes what? I need you to go away thinking about housing professionals. And I suppose so. The organization I run has 3200 housing professionals, and we all go to work every day with one view in mind knowing that good housing helps people thrive. Great. But bad housing can really undo so many so much of the work. You're doing so much of the work your colleagues are doing and can undo and can prevent and get in the way of, I suppose all of our aspirations for ourselves. Our families are loved ones in our communities. So even though housing is very technical profession and too often actually we don't spend enough time in the same room. So that's why I was delighted to be here today and thank you for the invite. Actually, my colleagues work very, very closely with you and all of yours because we're all focused on the same thing, which is the people that we serve. So the housing executive to kind of two things, really in terms of from from a health outcomes point of view. First of all, our job is to ensure that we keep as many people in their homes as possible and healthy in their homes, and we do that through a whole range of services. I'm not going to go through all of that today, but actually I think what's really important is that we are equally focused on Do our homes keep people healthy? Do our homes keep people healthy both physically and mentally? And if I had a concern and when I spoke to my colleagues after Cove ID and I said. What's the biggest concern? And you know, yes, it's money and it's skills, and it's all of those issues. But actually it was the level of mental health that we were seeing in our homes amongst our tenants. We have 84,000 homes. It's 140,010. It's our job is to keep them safe, warm and dry. And what we found after Cove ID was so many of our tenants really suffering, stressed, isolated, lonely. And I hardly need to tell all of you that. So our job since then has been sitting with all of you collaborating and figuring out, How do we do that? What can we do more of in housing terms? My second worry going into this winter is I know it's because we're hearing it from 10. It's already is how stressed our tenants are, particularly parents worried about keeping their Children warm. And there's nothing more stressful than when you're worried about your child. And you know that the home that you live in could be making that child sick. And so as housing professionals, our job to ensure that we are getting in there fast that were improving homes, and we're doing it as quickly as we can. And I suppose there's a number of ways that what we've seen and what I've seen between housing and health where I think partnerships are there and they're contributing massively and they are growing. One of them is a program called Complex Lives. And if you work in Belfast and you work in and around issues to do with homelessness or chronic homelessness and and drugs and alcohol and mental health and all of those issues ourselves Belfast City Council, PS and I and others are co funding a project called Complex Lives very like the support of effectively is a support up. And I think the best thing that organizations like us can do is to sit together in a room and actually get out of each other's way. So when we've done our bit, if the major problem for that individual, if the primary problem is their housing, then we step in. But if it's not, then we should be getting out of the way and we should be supporting you or whoever else needs to do their job. And the fact is the chief executive, it's often my job to get out of the way of my colleagues, empower them, give them the systems, the resources that they need, but step back and let housing professionals be as local as possible. So that's one example. I think of a partnership. I completely agree. I think support hubs are a fantastic model that, you know, we all do them in different ways in different jurisdictions. But frankly, the bottom line is professional sitting together, solving problems with customers, not on to customers. And I think that's something from from our point of view, from as housing professionals, the better we are doing things with our customers rather than to our customers. I suppose the second really clear opportunity that we've seen and I want to see much, much more of it is through community planning and the work. The sheer partnership, the risk taking, the collective risk taking that I see on the ground with and between council is massively important and I think offers real opportunities. House Executive. I'll give you one example imported down. There's a multistory block. It's called McGowan House. If any of you know it, it's a brilliant block, but it's going to cost us a fortune to do it up. And I sat in our exact time one day with a business plan and a business case for us to release that to the market, to sell it. Okay, and I didn't feel right, and I asked a lot of questions of the chief executive, and I don't know if Roger Wilson from arma ABC counselors here. But I thought about Roger in that meeting because I thought I've read his community plan. There he is. I've read his community plan on the community plan for that Council says we need to keep people in in in the town center and I ask questions about who lives in this block, and it's mostly people over 50 and we need those people to be living in the town center imported down. And so we made the decision that instead of selling it, we would keep it, and that means I have to find 80 million over the next 30 years to improve that block. But to the point that have been made earlier, I could have just went, Do you know what? We'll take the best decision for the House executive and we'll sell it and keep the capital receipt. Or actually, we'll hold on to it because we're community planning partner and we'll figure out the resource requirements. But in the meantime, our purpose and our mission is to serve those people and ensure that you have social housing, public housing in our town centers so that we can meet the mental and physical and all of the other service needs. So, I suppose to conclude, and the housing professionals that work alongside you know, only two. Well, what you the people that you are that you are serving and our job is to serve those people with you. Good partnership is real risk sharing. We'll figure out the resource challenges as we go through it. But the more we are in these rooms together and the more we are sharing risks together, I think the more likely we are to do what we need to do, which is to improve people's lives. So I'm very grateful to be here. Thank you very much, Granule. Thank you very much indeed. An interesting cross section of experience in practice there, with lots of challenges and opportunities highlighted, um, I could ask lots of questions. But I'm not going to do that because we don't have time. And it isn't about me asking questions. I did say we started a couple of minutes late, so if you don't mind, I'm going to steal a couple of minutes from the next session. Just to give a couple of people an opportunity to make a comment or ask a question and the first couple of people to catch my eye, I will bring in very quickly. There's a lady over there just on the right. I don't know if we can get a microphone to you. If you want to holler, I'll repeat it or their comes together with a microphone. Thank you. Just one question to the lady from the Health Service, the housing executive were were here a lot today about the digitization and the move of the hospital to the home. Is there any consultation or anything going on with you guys to sort of try and build that into the future for the housing executive? Or do you mean in terms of digitalization people's homes and yes, absolutely So I suppose two things. The first thing that I think that we do that's really, really important is we spend 72.8 million every year through are supporting people budget. We still have that in Northern Ireland. It doesn't exist in some of the other jurisdictions. It was wrapped into other other budgets. We still have a massive program of work where we support people to stay in their homes and a core part of that it's not enough have to say, But a core part of that is looking at how we can ensure that we have the infrastructure to support people so much, much more, please. Yes, but I think the key is that we retain a focus on housing support services. And I think you know what I've seen when that works. Well, it really does bring all of the different professionals around the table, including universities, by the way, which I don't think feature probably enough. We have huge opportunities through innovation in our universities to wrap some of that together. Thank you very much. Grander. Thanks very much for the question. Anybody else just catching? Okay, Somebody over here. We've got a question which I think has been texted in or emailed in. Okay, correct. So we've got an online question from Laura Collins, which is directed towards Maria. Which is how will we address the inverse care law? Those most in need to get the least How will the social, structural and commercial determinants of health be addressed? Okay, thank you very much for the question, Maria. I mean, I think that's a huge question. We know that, um the if we could provide well for the most disadvantaged 20% in society, we would we would improve the overall health outcomes of our communities. So I do think it is a real challenge for us. Uh, and again, I you know, part of what's being considered in relation to the integrated care services is how we start to really, I think, think about that, needs assessment in relation to how we can target that help and try and engage people because there's something about the way we communicate with our population. I think that's not landing. We're not doing it well enough. We're not. We're not making health accessible enough for the people that really need it in ways that they can understand benefit from. So I do think there's a job of work to be done with that. Okay, Thank you very much indeed. Heather. Just take one more there. Yeah, I was wondering if you could tell us more about the training that police officers get, like, What does your mental health training look like, Mark? Yeah. So officers in their standards will get training on vulnerability. Um, and they'll be trained and trying to deal with various scenarios. But at the top end of it are are negotiators are very highly trained, but primarily to deal with hostage type situations. But the vast majority of their work, then is trying to deal with people in mental health crisis Are firearms teams The ones who have just described, um will be trained to try and talk people down before they deploy up to potentially lethal force. You know, when they go into a situation of everything from they start with their presence to then their voice, then to maybe use of a button or CS spray to the use of an impact round the use of a taser right up to the, um, the use of lethal force. So they're very tightly trained and very highly trained to try and do all that. But to be honest, a lot of the time, we're just trying to do our best as professionals. I don't think we understand clinically what's going on with people. Most of the time, we won't know what medication they are on or not on. We won't know their medical histories and the point with the my A team, where we have people coming to us because we were able to access medical history, be able to access other information, you're able to approach the situation that also looks violent. But maybe another medical professional looks normal. Um, uh is really, really important because our our our instinct is where we go, we're ready for trouble. And that's the cops are trained because we need them to be, um, whereas having people to approach the situation from a different point of view, I think it's probably better. But nine times out of 10 will be the first one together. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you for the question, Mark. Thanks for the answer. I just want to land this by finishing with with Martin. Since you got us started, Martin, I just wanted to ask You could could you just maybe in about 30 seconds. Tell us what you make of what you have just heard because you're a service user. Are you encouraged by the transparency that people have talked about and the attempts people are clearly putting into trying to build a joined up approach to this issue? You want to just grab that? You want to just grab the microphone? Martin. Thanks. As I said before, it's usually not the people. It's the systems that actually stops these things from working. So we need to be looking to see how they actually go and we've talked about and what's your about risk and positive risk? You got to remember every time that someone comes to you and ask for help. They're taking a risk. They're doing a risk assessment on you. Are you the right person? Can you help me? Can you support me? So remember, it's not that way. It's set and if you have that wrong response and that's when we could be lost a lot of people. So all I would say is I am very as I said. I mean, the people here today, I think, are working very hard, but We need to go behind that and see what systems can we do to take care of the way Those are the ones that sexy, not helping people's lives. Very interesting. Um, thank you. Martin. Maria, Petra, Mark and Granny. Thank you to those of you who asked questions as well. I hope we've more than just skin the surface. It's impossible to put a court into the proverbial pint pot, but we've covered quite a lot of ground in a relatively short period of time. So thank you very much indeed. We appreciate you being here and appreciate your contribution.