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Hello, everybody. If you're here for this session on public involvements, can I call you all to the front, please? And we'll we'll decide how we're going to move forward. So if everybody could come just moved to or something to bring up a fantastic thinking You did it. Oh, yeah, I think we'll just are you. So I'm just going to start this sort of thumb workshop style and session. Bring your public involvement. Idea is session Okay? So just by way of introduction, what we'll do introductions that. But everybody knows these two wonderful ladies to my left because they did the session this morning Talking about their role is public contributors to research projects. And just to introduce myself, my name's Muktar on on a public in government leaned when NIH are So that's the national shoot of hoping care research blended center called applied research collaboration. So I've been leading public and, um, patient involvement for five years. Now I have to call in camera. Thank you. So how is everybody that has everything in line is we really appreciate their paper britches and from online said, if you if your PSA probably questions that you know things in in time. He's had monitoring somebody. Is Caroline do? It's working. Invest about my support, our public and patient engagement. A lot of them. So I've been supporting Shaquille with a number of projects, but it was something with broadly. I'd broken some projects related to a women's health. And I also work with another group, which is Ah, today system is modeling. So mathematics and that kind of thing and how your players approaches to have problems. But I can't circle answer any questions. You might have some hope. They support you. Encourage your store. Um, I don't know if you have never done it before. If you if you don't it to find out about the bone, mark the hip. They were doing a pastor about my life. I Hello. Thank you. Thanks, everyone. Yeah. You had me speak earlier on, um, Andi. Yeah, I think we haven't really prepared anything here, so I think the idea is just kind of have a bit of a conversation. Um, yeah. So he gets one, and then if you want to say yes, So I I think I before and her run I want before now, so I like to, um, start with a little activity, actually, just to give you a gist of rock PPI work is all about so hypothetically, I have a bag of potatoes. Did. So my wife has the bag of potatoes and she's going to go around on give every single person of Toto and your task is to prepare a fish with that potato. Now, you can prepare it in your native kind of, you know, have a cultural Oh, you know would cook this potato and then you don't get, um, your room, you bring it back to the table. So I'm just going to a quick ground. There's not many of us on difficult. Just shout out what you will cook with that potato or what you do with that potato. You know what's up with? No way, uh, I make a spinal, which is a little having yelling regents. Okay, so I'll do like a baked potato bake potato with cheese, like I just go around. So I'm doing something published called Platte Ski, which is you're, uh, ship the potatoes and you find it's really healthy and you have those would like salmon cream on top religious. I'm really dancing. Have chips. Is that okay? Wanted up. You don't? Oh, she won't. Cookie. What? You will make a dish. I'm really about it cooking, so I'm gonna have to go with six. Is that okay to portions of chips? Oh, both potato wedges. You, uh, shepherd's pie. Oh, nice. Make some self carry with curry. Oh, Commander to have beans. Spoke about family birds. Uh, potato and borrowed beats. Thank you. Same group and I grew you much the potatoes on, then get on. Egg on sandwich. It's around. We have to watch. Is it like in the middle of these are boiled egg. Out is potato roll. Call that a girl. I think I will. I did. Some really knows on. Don't tell the oldest. Please go and find it to get her off her screen, and then you'll get a price. Is she find it? Wow. Ashrams hash browns. I think our wash it off the dirt and then put it in an open. And when it's ready, that would be a big potato. Then I started, like that jacket off for me. Okay. Uh, after cleaning, it's I may I brought it so it'll be in potato in a jacket. Okay? Yeah. Without feeling. I boil it. The weight is protecting your jacket. Tuxedos. I'll boil it together with the chicken. Genetic. Yeah. Okay. I hope have covered it. Oh, my God. How could I forgive me? Give me mash it up in a bubble it mash it up, and then have some minutes meet with muscle A like the most of one and then kebab. And then on top of it, the better potato choke because I'm lacking of time. That's mashed potatoes. Okay, Something else that you are low budget. Nobody. Thank you. Okay. I'm so mr because I never, ever short on time. I think it's gonna be a good or now there's a thing called al ago which is French is like mashing. You put cheese in and it melts. That's very good. God, going to be a hash brown. I didn't. But you hear no came late. Sorry. I would have chips with some chili source ritually pepper. But you know, I'm being honest. I bend this activity many times and other workshops, but this has to be the most boring this group ever with chips, mash and hash browns Ansari. But something did come to my mind when that gentleman over this it he would high date, um, it his Children find it and he will give a price. Worried that's thinking outside the box, because in other activities, people said they're going to make a dent so out of it, a cut out a dinosaur out of it, over said, that will make it stumps with it. Now I'm not so anything. Everybody's got their own opinions. That's exactly what I'm trying to put in town. Well, don't look like this and workers a group and get lots of light perspectives. Great cultural perspectives you were experiencing, like life, experience, perspectives. You get all sorts of perspectives. So just imagine if this potato was not a potato, but he was an issue, and I gave that issue, too. That's a problem on I give that problem with every single one of you. Every single one of you will have a different perspective to bring to the table, and that's what people I work is getting people to burn themselves. Their experience, then knowledge their expertise to the table because this is what this is what it's all about research for public benefit. What ever sort of research that we do, whether it's to find out what is the best road drink or the best holiday, it's full, the public and we'll phone. It is fair that the public get involved and this is P. P. A. I hope that help, uh, thank you. Thanks here, my calendar doing it. So if you work, I was just going to say so in my role in the role that Caroline does is we. We often work with researchers on public contributors to help, sure, the public contributors that are able to be part of the process. So I mean, now you go to groups, and it is sometimes hard for the public contributors, but also for the researchers. I never get it because you get all these really skilled clinician, put them in front of a group of patients and they just lose it completely. So it's part of my job to help facilitate it. But there are other reasons why we have doing this. Work it so that we can and sure that the public contributors receive compensation for the peritoneum in the UK Certain bipolar public contributors were on the breo. It's called of 25 lbs per hour over their involvement. We'll make sure we provide feedback, so when they have a discussion, will provide all these openings. Will say you told us a sense we're gonna share this with you. Eso probably will report that. So when we write papers, we say we're both public contributors and these are the ways we do it, something we've gotten. You think, Oh, I've got something that's kind of just from recently in 2019, we've got some standards, Republican movement and we can show, but I think with a week about it online. But the standards over way for us to think about how I do public environment and I'll just share the six standards with your older that they're not complicated then and this is rocket science. First, we'll increase of opportunities. Think about how involving make sure that you're involving just of the people that are going to say to say anything because you're different perspectives. The second is working together, how we're gonna work equitably with everybody and make sure that people have a voice on that. They feel that can contribution. How do you when you're gonna have the meeting is where we're going to have these meetings. All these things you can consider support how I'm going to support them. Do they need any training? They need to know what quality of research is A with a systematic reviewers or daily training in hurting resume, so supported running. Then we have a governance in your project. How are public voice is represented? A one levels. So if you've got to try and if you got something in the trial steering committee or the and you know the time management group, then we also have impact. What's the difference? The public contributors making. So making sure we capture that I have left one out, Carina, remember is I've got going. No, I got that includes of opportunities. It'll come to me. But there were six standards on. So we have the standards. Is a finger up to consider when I working together in place of opportunities, working together, support in learning capacity development? No, it's about a manner, uh, in pox governments way. I can just check that out to me. Yes, I think what? We will be really interesting reasons to get just a fuel for in the room is potentially really don't. So a little over went before on. But if you haven't done for the government, have there been any barriers or anything but you off attentional e thinking about doing it, but like involvement, So I'm not sure how best to share this, but that's a contest. Oshawa hands. Have we ever had a involved with the public research in Actually deliver dissemination Doesn't accept for such a potential part in the research. That's a very important distinction. So it's not participation actually living in an actual and we have such itself so generally, such and and, uh, alongside the mother of four of them. If that makes sense, share of houseplants. Okay, that's that's going sometimes a little, I might Can you put me on just osteo tell us a little bit about, uh, yeah, Andrew weeks, I I've done it. A couple. There's quite a few ways in which have been involved in this. I guess the interesting ones were that way. Designed a device of postpartum hemorrhage treatment device, but it was a device to be placed intervaginal E, which is clearly a sensitive issue and we had a very good PPI group who worked with us. Um, that the difficulty I was find with PPI is actually finding the right people because actually getting somebody who's ordinary person is quite tricky because many people who come in have got very much a perspective on it because they because they have been, why why would you take your time to get involved in PPI? Work often is because you've you've had a bad experience or your I know your child has died of a particular rare disorder and that's why you're doing it. And finding people who are the ordinary members of the public is quite tricky. I think I exactly that's like when you put up in Amazon and you get the grounds. Actually, that can be it can be a tricky thing, but I think probably, is it benefit? Maybe we can't, you know, present representative of everybody trying. But we can try the best so to try to make the groups of my work with this spring presents differently. I was just going to say I did some work with some pregnant women in two different areas of burning and burning it was a really diverse place. And but quite often we do have they sometimes called, and I really don't like this time of the usual suspects. So people who do a lot of public involvement work. So what we did was we did some yoga pregnancy, yoga sessions on. We paid for the yoga teacher on. We did the little trick there any divers areas of burning home when they paid for the oak A sections I'm never completely freeing. But the thing was that at the end of the well, it was after before the session there was a chance to meet with a researcher on there a short session. So it was like Kharfen, our foot. Sometimes they bring 40 minutes on the research can either bring the research problem to the group that I wanted to discuss. Oh, they could share some of the research with them on. It was splendid by the welcome trust engagement by brick engagement friend so we can only bring up for the winter time. I had the project, but that was all well of getting a little voice is exactly right, but it was a lot of effort on. It was a dose a day, a week, time of setting up, going out there, doing the other babies. But that was getting the real Joe public, the voice on the streets, and that was really good initiative. But unfortunately, sustainability is a little challenge. But for us, it was really good to hear lots of different my just out of point to that. And I actually want passed it on. And they just because one of the things that because we're putting this this is a different test, a building like, Well, I might start with somebody who, you know, like my my friends on something see much problem with you actually sharing that damage, helping other patrons, I don't know. And so I think that's fine. We can start to bring in this leg versus a different season. Imagines Boots is, is actually getting Teo. The purple urination start working. So the ones that actually good friends people, But I think oh, thanks for allowing. Yeah, I mean, I suppose I I felt that it's in a way, my responsibility to bring other people along. So even though I haven't interest in it, I you know I have I have a different view from other people. So some of the things that I've tried to do is, you know, make sure people get invited to things. Oh, if I get invited to something, I know I can't go, could maybe someone else might be interested in going, you know, um, you know, making sure that you know people are introduced. Or so I think we've been really lucky that when we've had opportunities were being able to ask other people as well that, you know, maybe they've never done anything to do with research before. But it's like, you know, and actually, maybe that might not being that easy for them to be part of a research project, eh? So I know we had someone come to one of the sessions and she's just the month she's had three kids Just go, you know, a long time health condition. And she needs to kill you. And she just you know, I said, I want to be triggering And she came and it was amazing to hear her brothers and her experiences, I thought, Yeah, but those participants and I don't contribute. It's first to bend trust. Build that Ramoche in ship with them. It's very, very important. Toe build that relationship and concerned brother trust. Yeah. And how did you do that? Through them To ones through workshops. You put them in and and you make that familiar, But having anything, you really have to make some valuable and make them the center of attention so that they feel vulnerable to add their perspective to your research or two ever toe whatever you're doing, it's it's much Didn't then the bucket and saying that this is your bucket. You put anything in writing to it on, we're gonna work with that. Okay, thank you. My name's patients from Uganda. I don't doing some work among transgender people. So I just want to know from your experience. At which point do you bring the public in? Is that when you're designing the study, Is it when you're writing the grand? I really appreciate that information because I always want to do it, but I don't know the right time to bring in the public. Thank you. I mean, I think whenever you do, it is the right time. Um but I mean, ideally, as earlier, it's possible that some of the things I've worked on. We have literally hash things that help like in fact, one of the ones over I recently on the applets in pregnancy. I literally badgered shaky look for changes. And again I organize the meeting and I come on shaking. Let's do something with alright, people in the room on, we'll just rest that. What is it that we want to know from a different perspective? Way We've got a research question and we could designed, you know, the study. And it wasn't just me, because people over women as well into it a swell. But that was early on, just from just from the very beginning. When we're thinking about it, we want to do stuff in Katie's team, but we're coming, you know, like with the seeds of an idea. And then we talk about that. We just talked about it and then to trying to still, So, ideally, it's early as possible, but any time it's the right time, just having a chat with, you know, just talking like you said, thinking about you know what we're doing? What matters? Yeah, I think what we're doing here is exactly what you need to be doing its networking because time it works to get the patients through network. To get the participants three minute works, the participants get the researchers, so networking is also key. It's like the foundation, but everything below that is trust and valuing. Um, you know that stuff, But then bring your eyes. It's not working is key, definitely. Thank you so much dot So what happened? But please don't come from this new contracts because we're happy to answer questions and things, and I'm just gonna recommend what does it said is that it's always the right time. And, you know, I really hate this idea that actually, you didn't start the designer face. It didn't start a question you can't do. This is no involvement. That's just not helpful attitude. We want to sort of say, you know, sometimes we have to actually start working with them on engagement. Expect, and that can help us build the trucks It Then we can get that important things. So it's better to start that really those relationships now, because then you know, in a few years time when you're going for next grant, you better position to actually say well what's important to you. What's what is it? Moved here and you would hopefully identified ahead of time. What often in the funding world, you know, a fun like a a grant comes along and we've got a really responsive to it. Actually, it's much better chance of well, good. We already discussed smooth Got we've got the side of my dear Ready we're going to do is kind of protection and, well again his machine. Is he able to scramble around the feeling of people? It's It's easier if you just stand up. Just one of the little quick one. Is that what? When I first got involved here, I've got involved, like little when the research was already in place and happening on day. So one of the things was around troubleshooting. Yes. So one of the things I said is, Well, we've got to cut because we have lots of surveys here, So we've got to cut the service. What? So they should be cut? And I was like, Well, I think this one is a pain. Like I was put the same thing on this. So when they had to cut best what they cut and That's the trouble she's in, so it doesn't really matter. You can still have an impact of different points. Thank you. Thank you.