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Lovely. Um So for those who've joined since we introduced ourselves a couple of minutes ago, um My name's SJ Sarah Jane. I'm one of the uh CT twos down at Der Hospital and I'm the CST rep for the morning Ham Academy this year. Um I've got the lovely Megan helping me tonight. He's much more up to date with the CT application process. Hi, I'm me, I'm one of the cool surgical trainees at Hereford as well. I went through the application process last year. So, um hopefully up to date with it. So we've got a few slides just to try and help give you guys an overview of the process, which I'm sure many of you already know, have put the links to a lot of the information on the slides. Um because you can, you can pretty much find it all, but hopefully we've summarized it for you in a nice easy way. Um And then I think one of the main benefits of will hopefully be a bit of AQ and A so we should get through the slides in about 30 minutes and then we'll open up the floor. I'm not sure if you guys can turn your videos and there is some MS on but put questions as we go on the chat or flick on and feel free to join in. So I'll share my screen. Here we go. My God. I might just get you to give me verbal confirmation. Can everyone see that? Yep. Yeah, lovely. All right. So we've introduced ourselves. I'm SJ and Megan is my more accomplished colleague. So, learning objectives for tonight are to understand the requirements and the process for applied called surgical training to identify the key skills and experiences that are valued in the CST application process to learn from us and hopefully little tips and tricks about getting through the process. Um Yeah. And then as I said earlier, mainly, hopefully the Q and A will be, will be useful. So an overview of last year's timeline, I haven't put absolutely everything because it's already quite a busy slide. The link is there for the full details, but advert for CST should open towards the end of October and will be open until the end of November. The first stage is the M SRA which hopefully most of you have heard about. Um And you will have to sign yourself up for that um in December sometime and then in January, you will sit the MSR, um you will then upload your evidence in February. So your portfolio self assessment, which we'll go through on the next slides. You will then get your emissary score and this has actually changed since I went through in 2022. So M sra is the sole determinant of whether or not you get invited to interview and then you'll be invited to interview mid February interviewed. It's shifted last a bit again. So by the end of February, you should be interviewed and then you'll get initial offers towards the end of March. So hopefully that's a useful overview in April. There's then on the website with the link at the top of the screen, there's a bit more detail about second round of offers, et cetera, but we haven't gone into that tonight. So as briefly covered already, the three components of the CST application process are M SRA which accounts for 10% of your points portfolio, which is 30% an interview which is by far the most at 60%. Um I had a quick look to try and work out what scores needed last year. It looks like 531 points for an interview last year. So in Megan's year, but I don't know what that's out of. I don't know what each of those uh M Sra portfolio and interview score out of well portfolio you can work out. But um the other two, I couldn't see what the total points were and M SRA is actually done on a normal distribution curve. So you get put into like a section rather than having a dry score from the looks of it. Um Yeah, and 136 was the minimum interview score to get a job last year. So Megan's gonna talk to you about the M SRA which is the first thing that you can do after putting your application in. Um So just to say the slides aren't changing. J Oh no, are they not? Sorry, I'll upload them so you guys can have a look at them later. Sorry about that. I might as well stop an interview. Um As SJ said, the M SRA is the sole determinant of whether you get an interview. So it's a good idea to try and get your heads down and, and smash it out. Um It's 100 and 70 minutes. Um It usually takes place at a kind of random test center on the computer. Um There's 100 and 47 questions or at least there were last year. Um And half of it is basically professional dilemmas. So kind of situational judgment type stuff and half of it is clinical problem solving. So knowledge based questions, but they can be pretty much on anything. Um In the professional dilemmas, it's basically based on GMC S generic professional capabilities which include professional integrity, uh coping with pressure and empathy and sensitivity. And there's 25 ranking questions which kind of you rank um kind of like the S JT from most appropriate to least appropriate answer. Um And there's multiple choice questions as well where you kind of say the three, the three out of eight things that you would do in a certain scenario. Um And then there's a clinical problem solving which is again, er, knowledge based, um 50% extended matching questions and 50% single best answer which would probably be used to from university. Um There is a practice paper um on the website um on the higher education website which is useful to see. Um, and there's also a demo demo on person view just to kind of get up to, up to date with the tech. Um, and there's lots of different websites you can use to practice. I used to pass medicine but I know lots of people who used to pass tests and E Medica as well. Um, it's worth getting maybe a few of them between a few friends and working through them together. Um, but that is essentially all I used for the M SRA, I think for the professional dilemmas. I read some GMC, um, stuff online. Um, just to make sure that I knew well, I mean, it's, it's basically morals so hopefully people have them but, um, it's good to just refresh on those kind of things. Um, yeah, I think that's all about the M SRA, I would say it, it seemed quite time tight when I was in there. Um, especially the S JT part. But I think that's just because there's quite a lot of reading to do for those questions. Um So just bear that in mind and I think SJ is gonna talk about kind of the portfolio next. So there's lots of different aspects of the portfolio. Um and she's gonna show you each and every part of it. Yeah, cool. Can everyone see the, could everyone see this? Why? Just that? Can you hear me? I can hear you. Yeah. OK. I found another way. So hopefully I will upload the slides anyway. So you guys can see I can flip through the first few actually. So just learning objectives, which on the medal anyway. And then that was just the overview and the link is at the top there. But I'll upload these after so you can copy and paste the links if you want to. So that was me slide. So yeah, we're going to talk about the self assessment. This is what everyone stresses about um because it's something that we feel like we have more control over. But as you can see from the breakdown of points, it's actually only 30%. So what you really need to focus on is the interview as soon as you get confirmation after M sra that you're eligible for an interview, that's, that's the one that's going to give you what was going to make the most difference to your application. So um I'm not sure obviously what grade people are. So I thought we'd just start with the basics, apologies if some of you know this already, but I didn't as a foundation doc so hopefully may be useful for some of you. So optative experience last year, you got maximum points for involvement in 40 or more cases. Um This was assisted and observed, didn't count but assisted or above did. Um And for those of you who haven't used the E log book before, there's various degrees of how involved in an operation you are so observed as the lowest assistance next supervised with trainer scrub is after that and it sort of carries on up to performed independently with no trainer scrub. So I've just taken a screenshot of my log book that is the E book that most people use, um recognized by the Royal Colleges to submit the evidence. You'll need to generate a consolidation report which is really easy to do. Um And it's all quite self explanatory on log, but, but that's roughly what it should look like. So you have your front page which is here, bottom left of the pictures and at the bottom now they've added a nice little area for the consultant to sign it because before they would just sort of put a random signature where they'll sign and date it and put that GMC on the cover of that log book and then the contents will look like the bottom right picture. Um So yeah, the breakdown of your operations and then you can see the different columns are your level of involvement in those cases. So the next section is attendance of surgical conferences. So again, quite self explanatory provider certificate. Um I put it in the tips and tricks at the end. But for all of these bits of evidence, just make sure that you read really carefully the descriptions for what kind of evidence they want. Because that changed for me between gathering the evidence and then applying a couple of a couple of years later. So just make sure I think for most things now me correct me if I'm wrong but it's consultant signature with GMC number. Yeah. Yeah. Whereas you know, before I think the certificates and things were fine whoever they were made by, but they've tightened up a little bit surgical experience. So taste a weeks, get you max points, surgical elective, get you points. Yeah. Again, not a huge range there. Quality improvement and audit. So this comes in two parts. So the first part is here as you can see. So they want surgically themed audit or Q I. So it doesn't have to be second cycle because all it is obviously just one cycle. Um Yeah, and that sort of goes down the scale and then the second element is presenting that audit or Q I project. So if you manage to present it internationally, it's ma point and then locally is the least. Um sorry, this is a bit squished. But again, I'll upload the slide. So you can have more of a detailed look, but it's also all just online. Um So these are presentations and publications which all sort of together, they were separate when I did it, but now it's all in one teaching experience. So again, quite a lot of points available for this. So top tier is managing to organize a face to face teaching program with four or more sessions at a regional level. So have a think have a look if I think because there's been similar criteria for a while for a lot of the specialty applications. So there's a lot of stuff running already. So you don't necessarily need to set something up, you know, from scratch. But if you can get involved and help to implement the next phase of something that might be an easier way to get in training qualifications. So yeah, some of these are less achievable if you've got APG CELL, obviously that's a year's qualification but substantial training, I think most people manage to get and now they've said yeah, at least two days, but there needs to be a face to face element, I think actually, no, sorry. That's not right. That doesn't need to be a face to face element. Oh no, no, sorry. No, there does apologies. I was getting confused if that was ST three or but no, it's now face to face as well for CT. Um So there are some online courses which are quite expensive. Um But yeah, have a look and see if you can find anything face to face and hopefully locally and if not, you can always ask your local seniors if they might be up for organizing something, but it's, it's getting it accredited as well. Um So top tips, as I've already mentioned, read the guidance really carefully, um and make sure fresh from doing whatever you've done, you've got the appropriate evidence in the way that will be recognized for your portfolio. If you can do things that fill more than one section, you can't count the same piece of work for more than one section. But if you can generate multiple things from that one piece of work, then hopefully it it will reduce how hard you're having to work to get those points. Um Yeah, audit and presentation is separate to presentation and publication, which is a shame, but that is how it is. And then yeah, make sure you collect your evidence early and keep a note of everything you do because it is actually quite easy. It sounds silly, but you will forget stuff that you've done. So even if you just jot it down, if you don't have a chance at the time to chase the evidence, but try and do everything as contemporaneously as you can. Um So last section we're gonna talk about is the interview Megan. You're a bit fresher. Did you want to cover this bit, I can cover this bit. I would also just say not to freak out too much about the portfolio because that does look extremely terrifying looking at all of those kind of different uh things and points that you can get. Mine was probably just above average. Um But you get 60% of your points based on your interview. So if you get through the M SRA and you get an interview, if you smash the interview, then you're in and you'll get to a good location. So, um yeah, that's the most important thing to say. I mean, definitely, you know, work reasonably hard on the portfolio but don't, you know, don't waste too much time on getting like one extra point or something. Yeah, definitely. Um So the interview I think was in February for me, two stations but kind of four mini stations. So the first station is a management station in this station. You had to do a three minute presentation on a set topic and then they had to question you about that topic for about two minutes, the topic for my year and I think for a year as well was to do with leadership and management. Yeah, they didn't, what is the average portfolio? We'll answer some of those questions in the chat at the end, but thank you for putting the questions in the chat. Um Yeah, so the presentation was leadership and management. Um And I think they sent it out to me about a week and a half before the interview. It wasn't a great deal of time to prep. I certainly, definitely had the interview time before I had the, the question. Um, but what I would say is, I mean, you can just prepare the question completely. Have a script, er, learn it and make sure it's under three minutes because they will cut you off for three minutes. Um, and then kind of think about what they might ask you about. Um Usually it's regarding leadership and management. Um and some people have done amazing stuff, er, for leadership and management, I really hadn't done that much. I just kind of used being an F two on surgery as one of my examples um and being a teaching fellow as well. Um So don't kind of worry too much about that. It's more about how you portray it and how you link it in with your core surgical training. Um and how those skills will enable you to be a good core surgical trainee um in the management station, there's also a management scenario. So kind of a scenario where I don't know, they might have the wrong site for the patient or something like that. You have to talk through what you would do in a systematic way. Um And then there's a clinical station which is split into two different clinical scenarios, five minutes each, um which will tend to be like an a or a kind of run through of a sick patient or a recess patient trauma patient, something like that. Um I think i it's got another slide next, but that's the, that's the format. Um So yeah, practicing for the interview. Um I had this book and lots of people had this book. Um, a couple of sections of it now are a bit outdated um because they don't necessarily ask you to talk about yourself. Um, but the section that is really useful are there's scenarios in there. They've got lots of management scenarios and clinical scenarios which are just good to practice through either by yourself or with friends. Um, um, there's also a website called Surgery interview.com which has some useful tips. Um and there's online courses as well. I know that SJ attended one, I personally didn't attend any online courses. Um, but I did have very useful registrars who, um, practice with me, um, who had previously done um, courses and things. So I was quite lucky in that regard. Um, definitely practice with friends. Definitely ask your CT S and your registers who've been through it um, to help you out because yeah, they're the best source to be honest. Um And 1 to 1 practice is obviously as good as it gets really for preparation. Um Yeah, would you say anything else? No, I just add on the courses, obviously, it can get really expensive. So I did do the core surgery interview course, but I wasn't working in a hospital when I was applying. So I didn't have access to any sort of seniors to help really. And it was, it was a really good course, but it was, I think five or six CT SST S and you just went from station to station. So if you've got the book and you've got some practice questions and you've got people who are willing to help you, especially if they're like rush through the process that would completely simulate what the co surgery call provided. So, um yeah, if you guys are working in hospitals at the moment, I would definitely as Megan said, ask the people you're working with because you know, quite often it's good practice for us as well. Makes us think again. Cool. I'm gonna come out of this so I can see the questions. Um So we've had one so far which is average portfolio score and I don't actually know, I'm sorry, I did have a look online but it was quite difficult. I found one thread on Reddit, which was the school for interview. Um Yeah, I'm not sure Megan. Did you, did you get any indication last year? No, I don't think so. Um Not that I remember, I think there was something already from the year before, but I don't think there was anything for the year that I applied last year. Like Megan said, it's only a small proportion of your points. So the biggest chance to rank up points is the interview. So yeah, that portfolio self assessment has years of work in this don't expect to get max or even near max points in every section. I don't expect many people at all will be hitting that. I have three years out between a two and CT because I'm military and even with three extra years, I didn't manage to get anywhere near top actually for any of those. Yeah. I didn't know I want to do surgery until my last job of F two. So it was a quick turnaround. So I didn't have a fabulous portfolio. And me, you, I think it's quite nice for people to know you came like sixth 62nd, 60 seconds. Yeah. So ranked very, very highway. Oh, is Hannah? Hi, Hannah. Is it difficult? Yeah. So Mr it's done at Pierson views, isn't it? It is done at and views. But I do know people who had to travel to Cardiff from Plymouth. So, actually it's really important to put the M sra as soon as you can as soon as the email comes out because otherwise you might be traveling. Um, I unfortunately had it in Plymouth but it, it did run out quite rapidly. I think it probably depends on where you are, location wise and how many test centers they've got nearby but they send out emails and, and inform you when it's all kind of happening. Yeah. I remember it being quite well organized and person B obviously bashed people through and your MRC S part A will be at person B now as well. So, yeah, it is quite a good, relatively stress free process. Resources for the M sra should I flip back? Yeah, flip back. Um I can remember. So I actually just used pass meed, I actually didn't have any courses or notes. I just that, that was, that was it for me. Um Different people have different ways of studying. Um I looked at some of the GMC guidance for the professional dilemmas. Yeah, definitely. But other than that, it was mostly past questions um because they can test you on anything and to be honest to get through all of that material is quite impossible. Well, unless you start really early, but I didn't. So it's my own fault. I don't know how many people are post med school and have sat ST s but I just went back to my, it's very, it's quite similar, isn't it? The professional dilemmas questions? Similar theme? Um So yeah, I'd go back and have a look at your SAT notes because there's quite a few sort of rules if it says always or never or, you know, some of the ranking ones can be a bit trickier. But yeah, have a look at your ST notes and then like my, there's quite a few resources that I just use one and then there is one practice paper as well. And there's a demo that's probably like a couple of days before. Just have a look at the format of the exam. So it's just one less thing to stress about. Look at S JT notes from med school. Um I went on a course and finally a first at which was quite useful. Um mm There's a question about M SRA versus MRC SM. SRA is the one for CT applications and you will be invited to book onto the M SRA. Once you have put your CT application in, you can't just take it kind of and it can't be used for the next year. So if you have to, you have to redo the M SRA every year. Um that also answers Holly's question as well. Um The MRC S is I mean, great to get done before course surgical training, but at the moment doesn't count for any point to the portfolio. It's expected that you do the Mr MRC S during CST one and two. Yes, it can be a little bit tight for time and I've had a couple of colleagues struggle to get that in time. So if you have capacity, then I definitely think about maybe trying to do part A. Um But yeah, as Megan said, absolutely not required you no longer get points for it. And if you're applying for CT, just focus on applying for CTI think um M Sra, as Megan said, and as a slides shade it, it's what you need to get through to interview. So, just focus on that. I ended up, um, my, one of my exams got canceled so I ended up sitting at MRC S and M sra on the same week and it was the last week of my life. Like, it definitely deconflict them, don't do them at the same time. What do you recommend if you want to the S GT? So, yeah, like Megan said, I think I was sort of trying to make people's lives a bit easier because I went, I went through GMC, good medical practice for S GT and sort of summarized it. But basically that's the book for professional dilemmas. So just pick out the key, the key points and then use the practice questions and they'll have some notes in there saying some TIPSS and tricks and the way that things are phrased to suggest, which way you should go. Yeah, it's definitely more about reading the question and understanding what they want as the examiner. So I think it's practice with the practice questions and read the good medical practice. That's what I read on G MCI. Think it was updated this year. I was going to say it's been updated in the last 12 months. So just make sure if you've got a paper copy, make sure you're using the, I don't think there are any major changes. But yeah, they might want to put in some fresh questions just to show off. Cool. Will the session be recorded? I believe so. I believe it will be an on demand session on the Mohan Academy Meal website. And so if you're following them, uh, check in, I don't know how long it takes to sort of sort itself out after we finish. But yeah, maybe check in tomorrow and it should be up there if not feel free just to ping the morning hand a message either on the whatsapp or one of the social medias. Any other questions about CT applications? Ah This is the bit that I thought would be a bit busier. I had loads of questions, especially about the portfolio, evidence and things and what would count and what wouldn't. Um But that's good if you guys are all happy. Uh Does anyone have any other questions that we can help with? Maybe about what training's like? Or um obviously, we've had questions about MRC S, anything else that we can help people with? I would also just say with the portfolio um at the time at which you have to upload evidence, there's really clear guidance on the website that SJ has pointed you to um saying about kind of exactly what evidence is required and just make sure you literally do it kind of word for word. If you don't want them to deduct points, they can deduct points if they feel your evidence is insufficient. And on that there are a couple of things I think. Yeah, obviously it depends a little bit on your personality. I was a little bit apprehensive to upload certain things with a certain score. But I think if you're in doubt and you're genuinely 5050 go for the higher score because they won't add points for you, they will deduct points and if it's too high, they just deduct a point and if it's close, that's fine. I think when you fill out the application, they've got all rhetoric about, you know, we'll refer you to the GMC if we think that it is a private issue, blah, blah, blah. But I think that is, please don't stress about that. I'm sure no one is doing anything outrageous. It would be if you're claiming something that's completely false, if you're sort of bumping up one section on the points that would not constitute a referral to the GMC. Um There are a few questions come through. Is there a time not on how long evidence counts for portfolio? No, I don't think so. I can you done stuff at school? The only time limit is as soon as you apply and you do the self assessment on a essentially when you provide evidence, it's all meant to have been done prior to that date. Yes, that's the only thing can't carry on doing portfolio stuff after the deadline. I mean, obviously you can generally, but the evidence and say if you've been selected to present something in the march, you can't use that, which is a bit of a shame. Even if you've got the confirmation that you've been accepted, you have to have actually presented it for it to come as well. Um Sorry, I make sure I through all of these was peninsula competitive for CT Training Megan that will be for you. No, I don't think so. Not that I'm aware of. Is that not Jamie Russell? You I went to Peninsula Med school with maybe another Jamie Russell. I think Jamie, I think Jamie is at bed. Oh, different. Ok, too. Um Peninsula's great if anyone would be wrong. Um What is the timeline? We will submit ourselves scoring and say M Sra. Yeah, basically when you apply on oral, you have to do the self assessment, then you don't have to provide evidence then, but you do the self assessment. Um And then you kind of a couple of weeks, maybe a bit longer down the line, you get invited to the M SRA and then you can choose slots, et cetera. Um And then after you've done the M SRA or maybe it was midway just before the MS, you basically have a evidence upload, er which opens and it's online. Um and then it closes about a week later, gives you about a week to upload your evidence. Um And then after that, you get invited to, well, you get invited to interview actually pretty much on the same day that you start uploading evidence. I can't quite remember Meghan in the original application. Is it literally just applying or is that do you upload your portfolio self assessment then as well? Is there any? Yeah, they ask for self assessment questions at the time of the oral application, but you don't have to do the evidence. You don't upload the evidence until February. Ok. Thank you. Um what's the time? Do you have any tips of preparing for M sra? Yeah. So a UR is causing a lot of stress cos obviously it's the first hoop to jump through to even get your foot in the door. Excuse me. Um, yeah, I think just go for question banks and GMC. Good medical practice like Megan do said and how long to prepare? So, the sitting, it's January, isn't it? Yeah, it was January. January quite early in January. I think everyone's different. I would probably suggest 2 to 3 months, but you've got to make sure that you're still fresh because you don't want to start too early and then burn out and, and sort of fall out the swing a bit closer to the time. See, I don't know. How long did you take? Meghan? I started about a month before a month, but I probably should have started earlier, but, well, it, it didn't pass too much. It's ok. But, um, yeah, start preparing earlier and maybe do the slow game. I had a week off just before the exam. So I did that. Um Do we need to submit our po fully in November or February? So as Megan said it, which I didn't realize either. Thank you Joseph. So it's the initial self assessment, just the scoring sheet with your application in November and then the evidence to back up that self assessment sheet in February. Um Then y said if an article submitted to a journal in September published in December, can they give additional publication points? I don't think so anymore. I don't know. Do you know? So a lot of journals are doing this e publication ahead of print? That's true. So if you had, if you had an acceptance email or letter from the journal confirming the date that they were going to publish it, even if it was an E publication, I would, this is a personal opinion, but I would count that in my self assessment um and then provide what I had in the February. But if, if they definitely confirm that they're going to publish it, um maybe ask them if they can ubl it if they haven't offered, ask them if they could eish it ahead of print because then you should get a PUBMED ID with it. Yeah, it does have all the guidance regarding that on the at E website. In the notes section of basically, with regards to aport failure section, there's a note section that says what's counted and kind of gives you an idea as to when you should have had it submitted and things. So if you look at that, it will be clearer because I can't quite remember. Uh Sorry, not the same Jamie. Thank you, Hannah. If you did a taste a week after the deadline, yes, I think everything has to be completed by the time you apply. Get that taste a week now. Yeah. Yeah, it's difficult. I can't remember what study leave you get as an F two, you get a little bit. I think you do get to do taste a weeks. Yeah. Yeah. Um but also it needs to go towards foundation program teaching, doesn't it? And I can't remember they changed the taste of the week thing from your year to my year. SJ. So I actually lost points. Yeah, I can't remember. I can't remember what they changed. I think they changed the, the top one and the second one around. So I ended up getting, yeah. So just to make you guys aware the portfolio won't necessarily be exactly the same this year. They'll, they'll release it in October as to the timeline. They'll release that in October and they'll release the kind of portfolio it'll be roughly the same, but they might change a couple of things around. So it's just wise to kind of look at that and jot things down when it does come out. Yeah, I think all you can do is work to what information we have, which is last year's application process. But yeah, it is likely because I applied three years after I left FT and it changed completely. It was sort of gradual drift. And over the three years it was actually quite different. So, don't be upset or disheartened if you've tried really hard, you know, to hit the points for last year's portfolio and then they change it quite significantly. It's unlikely to be significant, but that might complain. But see what's done is done. Once it's released in October, you've done everything you can and you're not going to be able to get anything you upgraded between then and applying in November. So just see if you can maybe reframe what you've already done, you know, get another letter from a consultant or just see if you can maximize what you've done. But, you know, there is absolutely no expectation to start trying to fiddle with you, getting more stuff that late in the game. So, yeah, don't put that pressure on yourselves. Um An Oh, sorry, no, first name. He said, what are your tips for handling F one F two and getting experiences to meet the minimum of 40 cases? So do you have so yeah, ideally if, if it's not, it's probably a bit late but try and get an F two surgical job because then you're normally on the H rater and then you normally get theater time with that. Um As I said, I wasn't in hospital, so I actually just came in and I think over sort of 3 to 4 days with a consultant who I prearranged going to this with, I managed to get the 40 cases assisting. Um You need to pick, pick your consultant and pick your lists. Um Yeah, so that will help you, for example, colorectal, they tend to do one or two very large resections in a day. So if you're trying to get numbers over a short period of time, it's probably not your best specialty, but go and speak to your supervisor or a friendly surgical, either junior who can then sign post you to a consultant but try and find lists that have lots of cases going on. Um, but it's definitely achievable in a few days, you know, over the course of a few months. If you're organized, you can, you can do it in your free time if you haven't managed to get af two surgical job. Yeah, I'd say the same really. And, and to be fair, um, there have been quite a lot of ger F ones at DD. Um, and I know that they've, the consultants have always been keen for them to go to theater as well, especially when there's lots around on the ward less. So when you're on call. Um, but yeah, definitely when there's lots of you around on the ward, if you show that you're interested generally people want to take you under their wing and want to show you and get you interested in surgery. Yeah, definitely. Um, and if you're medical student, if you can get involved, definitely. At DD, there's some really keen medical students who are involved with some of the consultants on projects and then they're more than happy to have you in theater. And if you start sort of building relationships with people all through things like local training associations. So stuff like the morning hand, there's Dukes, there's Ro Club Roo breast has one, but there's all training organizations. So have a look if you haven't heard of any of them, have a look on the Morning Hand Academy of Social media, Instagram and X and they follow all the other training associations. Um So yeah, follow them, see if you can get involved and that will potentially help with your portfolio um points. But also it, it just starts that networking. Um If you're struggling to find people who are helpful locally, then um you know, that's another way of doing it as well. Um A couple of questions on, would you recommend CST so far? Do you wanna go fast? Me again. Um I've only just started. So it's a honeymoon phase for me. Um So I would recommend it. Um But then again, I do do less than full time as well. So the work life balance is OK for me. Um And I think I'd probably do that, having spoken to CST S who are full time, which is, which is great to be honest. Um, I can definitely have a life outside of work. Um, and surgery is leaning a bit more towards that now. It definitely needs to be a bit more old school, but I think it's, it's coming around to, to it for sure. Yeah. Um, I'd say I'm so I CTT, I've just done 12 month in Jams and I've got 12 months of vascular. Um, it's good and it's definitely much more if, if obviously you're interested in surgery, I'm, I'm assuming you all are, it's definitely a lot more enjoyable than foundation is because you're actually getting time in theater, you're going to clinic, you're getting treated like a trainee. Um, so, yeah, the opportunities and the academic stimulation I've really enjoyed. It is hard work. But if you enjoy it then I think it's worth it. Um, if you're not sure about surgery, you know, obviously go for CST. But if you'd like to still, but I might recommend a year out doing a fellowship job or a teaching job or something. Just to make sure that it is for you, you can always take a CST spot. It's quite stressful going through the application process if you're not sure about it, if that's the way you'd want to go for it. But I think the key with surgery is it shouldn't necessarily be this way. But you do have to enjoy it. I think it demands. I mean, I've not trained in other specialties but compared to my colleagues in I MT and anesthetics and GP training, I think it demands a little bit more. But we all work really hard anyway. And you've got however money 48 hours a week that you're spending in the hospital anyway. So, if you're enjoying those 48 hours, I think it, I think it's worth it. I think what I found hard about CST is the day to day job is great. But obviously because training is now uncoupled or for most surgical specialties, you know, obviously the ones that require CST as opposed to run through, it's uncoupled. So it's having an eye on your ST three application which has been and a bit more stressful because you're sort of trying to do a day job and you're also still trying to apply for the next stage of training as well. Yeah, it comes around very quickly. I think only two years and you're applying for ST three numbers at the start of your CST T. Yeah, exactly. You can let go C TF to have an eye on what you need for ST three. And that's another thing. It depends, you know, not to add extra pressure because just do what you can. But if you're doing projects and things have maybe have a look at that ST three application and the portfolio self assessment for that to see if there's, you know, if you could do, if you could just tweak what you're already doing for CT to make it help you for ST three, then you don't have to do something all over again. Um, so have a look if you've got plasty, but that is just trying to make your life easier. Not more stressful to stress out too much. Yeah, I didn't realize I wanted to do surgery until the end of F two and managed to kind of turn things around quickly. Um, but I would recommend a teaching fellow year. So II wasn't kind of, um, before surgery, I thought I wanted to do pediatrics. Um, and I did the teaching fellow year just to make sure that I genuinely did want to do surgery because it is, it is a commitment. Um, and I really enjoyed it and kind of all the previous conceptions that I had about not having a life. Um, and being called in on things I cared less about because I knew that I was really gonna enjoy what I was doing. Um, so, yeah, I'd say if you enjoy it then it's worth doing it because you'll have a better life than if you weren't, uh, that you hate if you're hating your job. Do you need a consultant? Sign off each entry in your logbook? No. So I'll just look up the slides again. Sorry. I know they're quite small. So I will also upload them. Yeah, it's a consolidation report. Yeah, so I don't know if you can see this very well. This is the front page of the consolidation report. Can you see my cursor Megan when I'm pointing to? Yeah. So then at the bottom down here, that's a new little section which is a lot smarter and it, it says er on behalf of the cons consultant, I've read the consolidation report blah blah, blah and then they sign print and put that G NT number so they just sign the front of it. Um, and then the inside of it will look like that with all the columns. Yeah, it's just a summary of how many cases you've done. It's not like um in depth and you can access that one that you love. But yes, yeah, it's really, really easy. I almost put a step by step on how to do it, but you literally log in and then on the left it says generate report and you just click that and then it's done and that's a report. Um, can't apply for CST more than 18 months post foundation yet. I've not heard that. II think, I think it is more that it just 18 months of general surgery or of surgery post um F two. Then it, you can't apply for CST because you're too over qualified essentially. Um So you have to kind of watch how many months you do do, um, post post F two. So teaching fail is fine. But yeah, otherwise you have to apply straight 33. Really all of the portfolio info. If you go on this website here, I think that's to the recruitment timeline directly. But then it will take you through to the eligibility criteria and that will have that all there. And as Megan says, if you've done more than 18 months, it doesn't mean you can't do surgery. It just means you're probably too qualified for core surgical training. So you're better off doing another fellow job and applying for ST three instead you, um who have you got, do you need to decide if you want to do less than full time before starting or can you decide at any time? Um You can decide at any time. So I think on Aureo, there was a question that was like, are you interested in it? But that didn't mean that you were going to go for it. It didn't put you at any disadvantage. I think they're just in, I think it was more kind of an audit really for them. Um And then once you've got your place. So in end of March, start of April, you'll find out where you are and then they will send guidance on how to apply for less than full time. I think they just recommend you do it 12 weeks prior to starting so that they can sort the rotor out. Um And you don't have to have any particular reasons. Now, it's not, you know, you don't have to have a child or anything. Um You can just do it for wellbeing reasons. Um And you can also apply for lesson full time throughout training as well. Um But obviously you'd have to wait a bit of time before they'd be able to enact it. Uh Can you explain more about uncoupled vessels run through? That's from ae sorry, I whizzed through that. That is a good question. Um, so core surgical training is the preparatory training program for, I think about eight out of the 10 surgical specialties. So core surgical training feeds trauma orthopedics, general surgery. So colorectal upper G I HPV, vascular surgery, plastics, ent urology and then the remaining surgical specialties are neurosurgery. Cardiothoracic max hacks. We don't have Max Vax, do we? Me and corsage? No, that's separate. So yeah, Max fax, neurosurgery and cardiothoracic are run through. So you start ast one. So you apply for that specialty from the outset and you start that training as an ST one to an ST eight or whatever it is. Um, core surgery is the first stage of training for the rest of those specialties. But as I already discussed, you know, we've got a lot of people coming from overseas, people who don't go into CST. And if they're already gaining surgery experience, they can, they can skip CST and apply for ST three. But standard is that you go through CST and then you reapply in your second year, your CT two to start ST three training in your specialty. Your CST is normally sort of themed. So if you say you want to do general surgery or TN, they'll try and have 6 to 12 months of that specialty in your rata. But people change, you know, that, that them, of your course training isn't binding so you can change that. And I'm not sure how easy it is. I changed mine. Um I've done 12 months of vascular for CTT and that was very easy. I don't know if you know Megan, it might vary place to place how easy it is to change. I think it depends on if there's anyone else in the same location who wants to change with you. To be honest, I think otherwise it can be difficult depending on how many numbers they want in each specialty. Um What I would say with the run through thing is so after interview, I think it was in March time, the rankings, not the rankings, the um all of the different jobs get released and you have to rank them all. Um And you get a spreadsheet as well. So it's literally, you know, core surgical training throughout the entirety of, of the um UK. Um And that they usually say if they're themed or not, it's, there's a lot of different columns and location and things like that, but there are also a couple of general surgery, run through jobs as well. But they're kind of very North Scotland and very North Wales, I think, to try and encourage people to go there. But, I mean, if you want to do general surgery, it's not a bad idea. Um, then you don't have to apply for ST three. You're just running straight through it. Academic ones are there. I forgot about those as well. They're academic run through as well. Uh No, they were just straight. Yeah, cool. Uh And then y asked about if you've got the log book signed before the update, you have to ask them to sign it again. No, that, you know, if it's all signed as we used to just get it signed without that new little snazzy bit at the bottom. That's fine. I think I got my consent to sign every page. So as long as every page is signed, I think that's fine is cover a letter enough. It was, I think it was just the front but the guidance as I said in each section of the portfolio, they've got a note section which will say exactly what they want. Yeah. Yeah, and that also will be updated. So don't necessarily have a look on the and just double check that that's all still in date. Any other? I think we've caught up on the questions, any other questions? Mhm. Ok. I'll give people another 10 seconds just in case anyone's typing something out. Speedy typing. Yeah. Um I will upload the slides. But yeah, I think the most useful thing out the slides is the links and as we've just said that the information will change. So yeah, just when it all comes out, double check everything. And I think, you know, once the application window opens, don't stress about getting more things on your portfolio for points, just get organized, get all your evidence together because I found that quite a lot of work. It took me about a month, I think to get, I don't know what you found again. I um I did that quite last minute. Don't do that either. Start early, start early. It's definitely a bit less stressful and obviously consultants go on annual leave and things. So you get that up and it's a bad time, isn't it? It sort of like October? Well, so the evidence is submitted in February, but quite often people are on ski holidays or something. Um Cool. Thank you very much for joining. Um I think this will be on demand and I will update the slides as well. Uh Feel free to ping. Uh I will, yeah, it's probably best to do it through the morning hand academy. Um If you've got any questions um and there's more career stuff coming this month. So we're going to upload a couple more resources. Um Have a look, there's a few more webinars going on and then our annual event of the EEG S weekend. So emergency general surgery is the 10th to the 11th of January. And I think that's provisionally been advertised, but we're gonna upload the details of the program later this week. So if you're interested, keep an eye out for that as well. Thank you very much, Megan. Thanks for being my advice. That was really useful. I hope you guys found that helpful. Take care.