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So I said, I've got background in law and gender studies and then moved into health and healthcare research in 2012, and I supervised a few projects that were on there were collaborations with F G M charities. So we have student work placement. So I was like the academic supervisor because of my background and legal and gender studies. But then Victoria, I moved jobs and became a lie lecturer in global health, and Victoria was one of the students on that program and that that's how we met. Yeah, so I my background, my degrees in medicine. But I took a year out to a masters in global health. Um, during that time, I kind of I got interested in F g m. Because I've been to a conference about it. Essentially, I've done my reproductive block in medicine, um, I and realized I hadn't been taught on FGM at all. And I was at this conference and they were talking about the mandatory reporting duties for doctors and healthcare professionals on F g. M. And I was like, Oh, gosh, like I actually have no idea about this. I chatted to Heather about it over coffee because we're both We're both interested in f g. M. Um, and we were like we should actually like, See if this is a a bigger issue or whether it was just I missed that lecture and was oblivious. So we created. So we created a national FGM survey and since, like, to all of the medical students, me care, asking them how much they knew about FGM if they got formal teaching on it, they know about their mandatory reporting duties, um, etcetera, etcetera. And it basically the survey came back and we analyzed the results and found that medical students weren't getting enough teacher on FGM. They wanted more teaching. A lot of them weren't aware of what FGM was. Um, others who knew what FGM was had only find out because they've done stuff in their free time because they were interested in the area. So we noticed, like, a real gap in, um, medical education around f g m. Which kind of like, yeah, grow arms and legs for us. Um, and we ended up creating r f g m course. And the more we talk to other professionals, the more we realized that it was quite a prevailing issue in all frontline healthcare professional, all front line professionals. So teachers, social workers, police, um, midwives, nurses. Um, all of all of these kind of frontline professions have a monetary reporting duty, and not a lot of them were aware of it. Team kind of grew as we were developing this project, and we worked with 21 too many, uh, looked at patterns of migration and, um, f g m diaspora in several European countries to actually because I think that's the thing people don't think it's here. Um, it is. It is here. And, uh, the other thing is obviously the travel as well. And actually the legal project that we did review to case law we did a systematic review of cases that we're in court's in the UK that were investigated because they were planning or had gone to trips. Um, to countries where FGM is practiced, um, and then brought Children and partners back in again. So it was like cases against parents. Um, that had this kind of complications. So it's and there's a lot of case law that that's, um that's there. So it definitely is here. F g M is the partial or total removal of any of the external female genitalia and classified into four different types. The first type is the partial to removal of the uterus, Um and actually to know, to be able to identify FGM well, you have to be able to identify the parts of the vulva well, which people aren't very good up. Type one is a clitoridectomy. So removal of the uterus, um type two is the partial or total removal of the clitoris, plus the labia minora and or the labia majora. And they're essentially the flaps of the vulva. Um so the labia majora or the outer flaps easily contain pubic hair and the labia minora the inner flaps. Um, Type three is the most extreme form of F g. M. And, um that's usually called infibulation in, and it's any process that narrows the vaginal opening line. Um, so often the kind of most severe form that most people know about it is where you take the two laps of the labia majora and so them up. So it's completely closed. Um, but it can be anything that just narrows that vaginal opening and causes. Obviously, then scar tissue and a lot of pain and trauma during birth. Um, so infibulation is our third type, and then the fourth type is Normally everyone thinks that's most severe, but the fourth type is just anything any unnecessary and harmful procedure. Um, of the external female genitalia. So we did actually have, um, the National Society of Piercers. Is that right, Heather? Yeah, tight to us because the World Health Organization definition calls any genital piercing FGM type four. But actually, if you've chosen to have a piercing on your genitalia, then surely that's not F g m and women our n anyone who has appeared to know if their genitalia shouldn't be prosecuted for FGM. If that's what they wanted, you kind of look being removed. So, like type one, for example, we're removing the clitoris. The clitoris has 9000 nerve endings, and it's only function in humans is female pleasure. So the kind of patriarchal, um, control aspect behind that is quite obvious in that sense, like, you know, where you're essentially just removing female sexual pleasure, and it's it's referred to differently in different countries in a different emphasis, I suppose. But certainly it's around marriage and and marriage ability of women and, um, sort of the rite of passage. It can be, uh, performed. And it varies by country as well. What what age is deemed as as, uh, sort of appropriate age for the practice, but in sort of preparation for marriage, um, and women being intact or clean, I think. And this is where it is really problematic and said, you know, as a white woman as well who doesn't have this is there's such sensitivity around. And that's I think, why we were really wanted to work with advocates in this area because we're not labeling other people's cultures and traditions. Um, but, you know, and that there is a sort of tension there because actually, many, many women actually want this, um, to be practiced. Because if they don't then for them, that's culturally, um different, difficult, and challenging. So I think we need to be really careful around that. Um, yes, we get this question a lot. Um, I guess like I can see where people are coming from. But again, all the things we've discussed about by F. G m and what it's performed. Um, it is a kind of. It's the control aspect, the removal of sexual pleasure. So male circumcision were just removing the foreskin. That doesn't contribute to sexual pleasure. Really? Um, whereas we're in f g m. A lot of the time we remove the clitoris, which is only function is, um, female pleasure. So it's that that kind of for me, that's how I differentiate it is that kind of the control aspect and also the removal of sexual pleasure for me, F g m is very deeply rooted in patriarchy and control And that removal of female sexual pleasure, which I just think is the court the court of it. Really? Uh, so I can talk about the medical side. So, um, for women who have experienced FGM, Um, so you can't really You can. There's research going on about reconstructing the clitoris, but to be honest, once it's gone, it's kind of gone, um, in terms of, um, like type three infibulation in, um, we can d infibulation someone if they want, so you kind of just cut the skin. Um, it'll never be the same, but it kind of allows them to sometimes, like urinate, minstry and also have intercourse um so those are options And there's, um, researchers in France looking at how they can try and reconstruct the clitoris. Um, and there is work happening. Um, I think there's things in London for, like, reconstructive surgery for FGM Survivor's, But, um, at the minute, that's not a mass that it's, uh, it's quite hard to access. A couple of people ask me if you see any connection between the anti FGM and end FGM movement and the pro choice movement, so that although, as you said that they're different, I suppose it just feeds into that, uh, that, you know, control. The way I see it as well is that the if women don't have legal access to safe abortion, it will go underground and that then women's bodies are at risk. Um, so I think there's a choice thing, a choice element in both, and bodies being controlled by other other than the women themselves. Whether that's by a political means or or a cultural traditional or religious means that it is. You know, one of those is an operation and controlling women's bodies, and the other thing is, um, both practices put women's bodies at risk of harm. Um um, and of both physical and psychological harm. So I think you can compare them on that basis. Obviously, the to practice is, uh, one is is done. Two and one is about the not doing too. So there, you know, the non intervention versus the intervention. Yeah. I'm, uh, pro pro choice activist. I'm I work for a doctor for choice. Um, so I'm very passionate about bodily autonomy. Um, which is why I think that I'm passionate about both Top X, Although they're not that that's similar. They are, in a sense, it's all. It's all feminism, and it's all giving women the right to choose what they want, like allowing them to have sexual pleasure, because I think a lot of the kind of stuff around antiabortion is similar to that like clitoridectomy type thing where women should be having sexual pleasure, and that's completely bad. And and, you know, women that have pleasure deserve everything that comes to them. So it's also that control of sex in women that I just it's horrendous, and I just hate when when it's particularly people that don't experience life as a woman, try to make laws about women and, you know, taking away abortion access and taking away a woman's right to choose. What she has done with her body is it's disgusting and it needs to stop, and it's gone on for 40 long. I can't believe we're in the 21st century, and still people protest pro life and you're like, Stay out of it like a woman's body's woman's body. Let her do what she wants. You know, there's lots of people doing lots of different types of work, and I think that's where we distinguish ourselves in terms of this education project. And really, that's what we're now. We've launched the course, um, and had our first cohort of students we really wanted of Persian. You have seen our social media. We're kind of trying to build from that now and spread, spread the message and and provide that education. Um, as well. University of Aberdeen has a partnership with future Learn where, uh um collaborate to, um create courses that are, like informed by University of Aberdeen teaching and research, but provided free. So, um yeah, people can sign up and do the course, and it runs between annually between, um International Women's Day and zero talents of international zero tolerance of F G M day as well. So it's we'd sort of targeted between those two dates. So I was just going to say it launches in February. So if you can definitely, definitely sign up and I mean, we we've had students like we're working with us to evaluate the course, update the course and so on. So, you know, we're constantly we're not just Oh, it's there now. We're constantly improving it, working on this as well and involving more people. And we have a new team of volunteers who are working on this as well. So the team is growing all the time, and the work that we're doing is, um, yeah, being updated.