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Hi, my name is that class it. I'm a full three and postgraduate medical student at lest up. I'm interested in all things medical education and surgery in particular, and passion about urology specific. The men's reproductive health formally known as in college. It's been amazing opportunity to involve the virtual active around the world on behalf of Middle alongside my host, the now nearly qualify Doctor only button. Hi, everybody. My name is Ali. I'm a final year medical student at the University of Warrick due to start work as a junior doctor. Nephi want this August 2021. It's been an incredibly exciting and interesting experience to be part off this interview. Siris, along with my co host Aqua as we've been part of medals virtual elective around the world initiative is to medical students rapidly approaching the end of, um, it's called training. Just hearing all of these different perspectives from these incredibly talented individuals you have so much to say, has been a really I opening on enlightening experience. And I hope it will be for you to thank you for watching. Okay. Hello there, everybody. Welcome to the first of the inaugural one of these fireside chats on behalf of metal on the virtual elective, where we're going to be speaking to some really exciting guests from all around the world on a huge variety of topics. My name is Ali on the finally a med student, Warrick and I'm joined by Aqua. Hi, I'm 1/4. Um, it was doing that, Lester. And most importantly, perhaps we are joined by the inevitable, inimitable, inimitable James Summary. Um, it was a really, really exciting guest. I'll let them introduce himself in a second, but we'll be going through James's, his career, his background, his, I guess journey through medicine in the world beyond Onda. Uh, the things that make James excited about what it does. Well, excited. All of you. Thank you, James, for joining us. Very welcome. Thank you. So what's an introduction? That is I'm sure I am in. It'll if that's thing, you know, in irritable. But now you get to be here. Uh, you're always happy to come in chapter. Well, it might be best, James just I said I'd let you introduce yourself. Would you be able to just give us a quick run through essentially your your kind of career so far what you do for the boys and girls? Yeah. Happy to Happy to use a quick we've got. Now I was going to say we've got we've got Now we say I might Yeah, tell them the medium lead version. So I, um an anesthetic. Well, that's sort of top Line's on an anesthetic in intensive care, doctor by background practice for five years the the loads of bits and bobs in media Should policy innovation of the NHS ran a couple health tech accelerators which programs that support start up so wrong with the NHS Started my own after that which I'll go into. I then started writing, performs on Health Tech. I started my podcast the health podcast which is not listed around the world on Go off late. My latest business is some X, which is an innovation on a communications agency, specifically the health tech companies. And we do press and P r A. Z well, as multimedia constant so really video podcasts, graphic design, social media, blawg writing all that's all stuff. So we solve a communication problem and so and started. But I won't get into heavy sales made on that so much of that you'll get from a I suppose my story begins as how somebody described wonderfully on my podcast. You today is a distracted medical students and that someday me up to a t. I was just distracted, not buy anything specific. I don't think about it for school. Just anything that wasn't medicine which told me something. A medical school which I should have really clocked onto that. Actually, I prefer doing other things. And so my destiny was perhaps notes in, uh, anything to scientifical clinical because actually, that's not where my attention was drawn, but, um persevered. Uh, obviously finished medical school. And then when I got on the water's as an F one f d doctor, I should really enjoyed it. I enjoyed it because it wasn't about, like, naming the causes of pancreatitis in order and then getting like, blitzed on a walk around for not knowing it. It was about actually just getting things done. It was like, Here's a list of patients. There's a lot things that need to be done. You can do it yourself. You can delegate. You can trick someone into doing think, However, you get this done, you know, get this scan done by that radiologist. Thank you. How you do it. Just make sure you get it done. Like that sort of stuff was interesting to me. It was cool. It was different. It was fun at times. So I really enjoyed that as a junior doctor. I suppose again, it wasn't about the science for May. So what I started doing was little projects that fixed the system on preferred that fat fixing patients a lot of time. So I started doing things like in my four year. I fix the printer, which sounds really innocuous. But every morning, nine o'clock in the morning, there was only one printed that works in the doctor's mess on everyone cute for it on. That meant that walk around would start late because people were keeping up for this one printer, which meant the water rounds of finish late, which meant that sometimes patients wouldn't get fed on time, which meant that surgery would then have a knock on and be count like there's so much that would happen. It's just from this one. Print it not that I saw at the time, but until I just thought, I'm just going to make a few phone calls here and try and get this thing done. It wasn't that difficult. Just It's really boring for most people Get that done. But by fixing two or three printers in the one room really simply just meant that there were no longer these cues out the door. You know, 8 59 91905 like people would just be able to go and print their lists less stressed in the morning. You can have a coffee chats, a few people. You start, you're around on time, and that's all. These are the knock on effects that you see that you know, that finished on time, people would get fed so you wouldn't get knock on effect like so it got addicted doing that stuff because I could see the impact that making these spots was perceived as little changes but actually knock on effect of the system. So it's a very long story short. I started to have increasing, I suppose, Thea size of those projects, Um, and to give you an idea of where that went to in my two year, it's part of something called the KSS School of Clinical Leadership. At the time, it was just something that I could apply to the that meant I did this project. What ended up doing was shadowing someone in finance. So I shadowed someone that was saying years Post graduate was me. But just in the NHS Management Graduates game and they were just in finance on D. Her name was Linda. I shadowed her for a couple of days. She shadowed me on the on the knee and toward for a couple of days on we did a project together where we put our heads together and thought, Well, how can we change something together on But what we decided to do Waas solve a problem which was the overnight blood Cultures weren't getting sorted basically in pathology, which meant that any baby that had the blood taken overnight if it was a discharge dependent blood like suspected sepsis or something like that. We need 40 hours, of course, of spotting you get home. Um, it meant that babies, if they got blood taken every night, they were for 3456 stage and it was like why? There's no need for this. It should be two days and go home. So we looked into it. I followed a blood culture around hospital to be like one happens this thing and realize that if it goes in the product five oh, one just lands in the basket until the next morning. All the the blood supply it on top. So we wrote a business case that was that we were gonna least a new blood culture analyzer. Put it on the knee and it's ward and stick with the discharge. Spend the blood straight in their day or night. Babies go home shoes. The 48 hour clock ticked over, um, and so it was great doing a project like that. Say to underground and you're on possible 250 honey 83. You need to, like, cut that kind of kind of numbers, but it didn't end up happening on it went right to the top off the hospital on. Someone took me aside and said the there were reasons that this couldn't happen. Um, financially, because there was a new water near Night Ward. They've been built and it was half empty, and actually, you can't the shot people any quicker because then you actually lose money and you learn all these different incentives that were going on around in the back end of the hospital in Houston. You learn a bit more how the money moves, but crucially, you learn how to use that to make a good change. And so I just took all of that knowledge basically, and just started doing similar things and similar projects writing similar business cases actually get things done, which is super interesting. Um, but yeah, I took a couple of years out after that because, um, I need to scratch an itch in policy policy kept coming up with a barrier. So, um, after training is a niece. This this is I went to the health education England that it a fellowship. Great way to use your time. If you want to explore avenues outside of medicine, fellowships give you a year's off, a foot in and a foot out of medicine for a year, which is great. So did that at a G A. On the Faculty of Medical Leadership Management's fellowship scheme. That one was Bruschi. Oh, that the time so really enjoyed. That gave me a lot of time to think about what I wanted to do. Also, spend some time and accessing gland that I met Tony Young randomly, uh, ended up trying to him and start doing some work for him which might call hold of the story and sell. Um, and then, yeah, after policy thought what we're gonna do all these skills. This is all pretty weird, but they were starting this program called Accelerator in the NHS. It was the digital health, that London accelerator. So I applied and just said, Well, I can support all these health that companies with all the stuff that I know about how to get into the hospital and how much you should price your thing. And I can help you, right? Business case. And I can, you know, there's always it was actually applying everything I knew it was pretty strange, and I didn't think that was gonna happen. I was also like interviewing at a place like Babylon and places like that other startups and figure out what my next one was gonna be a butt on an accelerator. You know, we were supporting 30 different companies every single year, so, you know, theory amount you can learn. It sort of multiplied on your helping companies of that kind of scale rather than just once. It was a good move for me, my thoughts on. But I was right because it really seated me. Well. Within six months, I was promoted to run The program is Mikel Hannah So Hannah and I ran it for a year after that switch saw to cohorts go through this thing. We saved 40 million ft and a Jeffs and 350 new sites of under with the new innovation Thanks that accelerators supercool companies like Babylon went through it metoprolol Now humor is they're called Went through it echo who got quiet by Lloyd's pharmacies. Like the capsule. They were through it. So yeah, incredible network like Bill helping all these different startups Really interesting. Really fun. No medical record, Alex. We started our own accelerator after that called h s, which became a chest ventures. We were on early stage venture builder. So turning ideas into reality. So helping super early stage entrepreneurs, we raise money for that. We partnered with charities to help them invest the money into emerging tack in their field like orthopedic Research UK would invest in the orthopedic stuff. So you know that kind of thing that's really cool, setting up a little ecosystem kind of. It's a Navy used word, but it was It was good to be part of that. At the same time, I started writing for Forbes again, another piece of ice, especially the students. Just keep up with your hobbies because you never know when you can monetize. And so I ended up I ended up writing for was just through through an application and expected. It's just like right again. Interesting. Then started the forecast. There's well again. Interestingly, I didn't want to start a podcast. Exactly, Alex, that said, You should start. Um, but anyway, push through that and send that really enjoyed it. I lost. Enjoy speaking. I mean good conversations with people. And I have this big networking health tech, and nobody was really thinking about health thinking the way that we were at the time. Anyway, it was actually hyphenated to begin with. Health Dash check his health. Tech wasn't even the word kind of so like we were there. Port was cool kind of thing. Been really enjoyed that and then. Yeah, because of all that calms stuff with writing for forms and all pressure release is I get the podcast and all this section of the year I d started realizing I could solve the problem with incomes. Aleve, the startups that I that I knew and say I launched some X soft, launched it about a year ago. We've been on on on boarding clients for about a year, figuring out the best business model the best five proposition, all that sort of thing. Going to be launching Philly in a couple weeks open. So everyone seen, but yeah, we've been hiring over the last couple of weeks while getting few people ingrowing the team. Yeah, we're going. We're going to put ice on that front. So, yeah, I've ended up in a place where I can utilize on my hobbies where I can help clients with podcasts. I can write for his articles. I can Sort of No medicine is a hobby. It enough to do medicines. That would be any more. Sorry. My dog is now just on. My puppy is absolutely destroying my rug over there. Give me to give me two seconds. Yeah, the fuck's. Yeah. I mean, this will be adjusted. Our I could Do you? Yeah. Launch into one yours next? Yeah. Yes, I think I'm gonna ask because James has spoken so much. But like, policy and like, I want to fax it. If he's not, if he's not doing any medicine anymore on policy stuff, Sorry. With coordinating between ourselves, I'll just do that. But again. So, yeah, I've ended up in a place where I can monetize my hobbies, which is great. So I can I can write. So I wrote for forms. I can help clients a podcast. I can do my import cast. I consult. Do medicine is a hobby now, Or at least talk about it as a hobby on Dyken. Build a business, which is what I wanted to do for for so long. So yeah, really, really called to be in in this spot now, but it's a moving target, you know, trying to find a career that makes you happy. And all the rest of it is there's always over had to like this always. If you don't enjoy that this whole do what you love, understand? The time I don't think is a realistic goal. Um, but yeah, you can keep it straight in your life. That medicine teacher usually that's certainly told me that that you can one and annual basis. What did I enjoy this year? What could I put in and what could I take out? And I think that's kind of how I feel, like, gradually iterating my career in my life to get some point where I am now. I think that's gonna stops. Yeah, he really Okay, there is so much to take out from that. Um but I think two things I I'm personally interested in is because you've now done stuff on policy, right? You've you've learned a lot of policy. Do you think what we've learned has maybe showing you why there are so many gaps and why there's only blocks like has that helped you understand the bigger picture off off? It'll Yeah, definitely. I think that was That's the reason I went into its be honest. It was because, you know, you would be speaking Teo companies that would be trying to get things done. Onda people would be saying to them that policy is a blocker. And so for me, or somebody wanted to innovate, wanted deeply to innovate and help these companies change things in the hospital. It was about how well, how do we how do I go and learn this stuff, at least in concepts that I can apply it to innovation? So rather than just, you know, moaned and this is the thing that even is this season is a collection of everybody moans in a doctor's mess, and that's fine. You know it's necessary. It's event. But I was always somebody would be like on how you gonna fix it and so that kind of thing. So it was the same with policy. You know, people talk about policy policy. Phylicia's I Walk a list own. Okay, so this is all about. And let's try and find a few ways of doing it and getting to cut along. So we sure, I think they're for comfort technology companies or even clinicians or anybody that wants to be making a change within the hospital where policies perceived as a barrier, the simplest thing to do is to look a policy papers that come out So the five year forward view the GP for would be the top will review things like that and just skip to the end and look at the recommendations on D. If you are trying to do anything that maps to those recommendations, right, each one of those recommendations down and then whoever your next in the meeting with, say, I'm eating the But by making this change, you will be meeting the recommendations of the top of review numbers 1 556 on day 78. So we're all aligned, and I think what that also teaches you and especially like the technology companies will. It teaches them about the language in one of those meetings because you end up speaking the language off the people that you're trying to sell to all the people that try a part that with all the people trying to get things done with, it's the same conditions of management this often two different languages there. I think that's one of the things that was so good about shadowing management. You know, I learned different language of how to communicate in the in bed days, which is a currency to finance people in the hospital. You know, if you could save bed days then for a sudden they convict and see what those numbers mean. And it's fashion hurt like it's It's the same policy, you know? So I think it's important that if you're gonna be, you know, trying to make a change of that kind the level you need to be able to speak that language. If you speak in the same language in those policy reports, you're on two a winner. So I don't see a question. Yes, and, um, to clarify, are, you know, practicing anymore? Correct? I haven't practiced. I thought they said that. They actually I think I've just about not practiced for a long as I did practice. So So I've been on the cusp of of that transition now that I've been out for longer than a minute. But yeah, I practiced for five years clinically. So I did my wife to took an F three year we're looking today and a, uh, did a fair amount traveling on, then went into corn, assess it training. And so yeah, those my kind of five years got my $10,000 a day, but I wasn't a good point right about I do feel that I did enough work clinically in a hospital. I got a specialty, although not a consultant level. But, you know, I completed core training in in a field of medicine. I feel confident, you know, I can remember. Like I can remember every inch of the hospital. I can remember every process I had to do. And I know all the different departments, like I understand what it's like to be a condition, which gives me the empathy. And it gives me the I suppose the the credibility when I'm speaking to a lot of these different people because I think a lot of what I do now is connecting a lot of different worlds is connecting the world of management to the world. Linekar all to the world of startups, the world, a policy to world investors, you know, I've got to be able to speak well. There's different languages with credibility, right? And I think that's what that kind of $10,000 on medicine is given me is like, you know, I could buy it myself in a conversation about even physiology or something, You know, I can remember it. I was going to ask you about that because to a lot of people, um, you know, say people like myself on Aqua who are who are about to take our first steps on that towards those $10,000 or whatever you like. Um, there's an interesting conversation to be had about professional identity, I think there and do you still, you know, you've put in infinitely more hours of clinical practice than both of us put together. I mean, even though you've left that world behind you, perhaps in some senses do you still do you still, you know, see yourself or you still Doctor James, some room in that way. It's It's interesting. It's a really good question, I think so. I don't know for how much longer I know that when I was leaving medicine in that process of fellowships and then during the accelerator, but still being paid by, I suppose this option sole and there is this kind of edging out of medicines and getting less and less clinical that my I did struggle with identity quite a lot. I think it was a zoo. You guys know and we'll know like being a med student. Being a doctor, it becomes a a lot about you, to yourself, to your friends, to your colleagues, like you off that especially the friendship, right? You notice the medic like it is just your whole identity. It's funny because the other person isn't like the business studies like like, but you're the medic like that. That's that's something about your entire life. When I was edging out, it was like while I'm sort of like the innovation guy or my the quality improvement guy or my the accelerates a guy. Now I'm not supposed like the health tech guy or the podcast guy or a bit of both, or I don't know how I've seen, but so myself. Yeah, I do feel that I have a funny relationship with that. They are in front of my name now. Like it's It's one of those where I think it's been compartment Personal brand now that I think it will be probably kept there for that reason. Not that I'm trying to pretend to anybody that I can deliver an anesthetic tomorrow, but you know, I did put in those $10,000 and I can't speak credibly about that time, and I think it does it does give me an edge. You know, now that I'm, you know, running some X and you know, we're health tech specific communications agency we got on our audiences. I need my clients Need to know that I am a doctor by background. They need to know that I've got the credibility in that space and the ability to talk with authority about what conditions might want to hear from a technology company what conditions might want to hear from, you know, different starts of whatever it is. So I think it will always be part of my identity, whether or not it's ever going to be the main event or not. I mean, it's probably not right, but I think it will probably It will probably stay there in front of my name. I don't know. I I notice, you know, when I speak to some people now, like and, um, for example, that I'll be in this deputy managing partner, I'll be and be see like he was a neuro sign. A neurosurgeon by background, he he doesn't identify his doctor down Jewel, These under older say, I know it's not a camera look like, so it's interesting It's interesting. I think he got further is read that you see Register? I think so. Here. People obviously drop it at some point. Maybe. I don't know. It's a funny one. Identity. I've got more questions. So this is going to some Very nice, But you have, like, a wealth of business experience. What did you I guess Get that from when did it get Yeah. So good question. I actually asked this question of law. My podcast. Like, how did you actually start this company? How do you actually doing that? Because I I saw don't believe people when they're just like, Oh, yeah. And then it just happened. And then I raise this money. And then I rebuilt this product, and then we did that like like, what did you actually did like someone either did that for you or you went through some process of learning. So I understand completely where the pressure is coming from. I would say that as a person, I'm actually quite risk averse. I will really be measured in what I do next. Every particular point. So for May, I was never gonna be the doctor that all of a sudden then went and tried to raise a load of money and start a tech company because, frankly, that just seemed ridiculous that I would have the knowledge to do so. I'd only feel comfortable doing that if I'd like, sat next to the CEO of a tech company for a year or two years and understand how they did it. So that's the thing for me. I have to learn by bit of us was my assistant. I have to learn by conversations of people in reading around something, and I have to. I have to get have to absorb the knowledge somehow before I can then make a step into it. And I think that is reflected. Actually, in the personality off. I suppose my company now, if some X is that we've been soft launched for a year, that's not quite rare, You know, in entrepreneurship, it's just like Go, go, go, go, grow, raise money, get new clients, hype it like did it? Did it a build it, build it. That's my dog. Well, Poppy, should I say um but yes. So I've always been very measured in what I do. Therefore, my journey into entrepreneurship was just I was measured it waas How do I learn something and then turn it into a business? It wasn't just Let's do entrepreneurship. Let's let's do a business and you know more. So when I was at the digital that on the accelerator it was doing that it was actually when I when I went into the accelerator to join it A Z initially, what we call the navigator smaller, but that's a start. I had four pdf's on my desktop on my computer over on my laptop, which were, I think, if I remember correctly buying nester and they were along the lines off how to start your own accelerator, how to build your exercise out of fund urine accelerated house obstruct urine accelerate. It was like I have That was an idea when I walked in there that I'm gonna learn this thing and then I'm going to do my own. And so that was always on my mind. On diet was always absorbing information on that basis. So I definitely believe in the power of setting a North Star that you're aiming for, that you will end up making little decisions that energy towards that at any point, and so I'd set that except my coordinates at that point. So whenever there was an opportunity to see behind the curtain and learn behind the scenes of what's actually going on here, I was there. I slept from my hand. It could go to it if it was a meeting about the strategy, was there. If it was, I don't know and issue with something. I was there. I was figuring out how to solve problems running an accelerator, and that's when again you make your own luck. But I was at the launch of Microsoft Accelerator to learn about how they launch an accelerator, funnily enough on. But I was at the back of the room and Tony Young actually introduced me to a guy who I saw there, by the way, Hey, introduce you to a guy called Alex on. Both had a similar idea. His was a lot more formed than mine. In terms of the nuts and bolts, he'd run a business before a couple of businesses, in fact, on go I was more operational. He had the business experience, and so, frankly, we built a chest together and I learned from him How so? Make business decisions have to be a CEO. How toe, You know, we have very, very, very different personalities. And so I learned a lot from him. So it was that and again, that was that was most, you know, being very close to someone and that was very different from you were very different skills that you can you can absorb from. And it was only then at that point that it was like, Hey, what? We could have Renee just forever. But, you know, we're going to raise the BC funds and the thing customers and Bob a blob on Alex, all this other stuff going on. But it was only a that point that I was like, Well, now it's not. It's not a conscious decision for me to do some X and figure out how to structure and figure out a raise money and figure out how to do this. It was just like, Well, actually, I can just help these companies comes, you know, we could do a contract like it is. It is. It was just it was easier for me just cause I have the experience in a sort of shots or nothing with the accelerated so gradually is the answer was supposed. And then I think we couldn't We couldn't let you go without without asking on behalf of the people who are not. There will be listening and and sort of thinking that sounds really good. He sees achieved what I want to achieve all the sorts of things I'm interested in. So I supposed to pose it a Xanax. You a look here in question. What advice? Or what tips would you give to either a medical student or a girly Korea's doctor, or maybe even a consultant who he wants to travel down a similar path? Yeah, good question. And I suppose, for the for the medical students, I would certainly say it's about scratching those itches. It's, um you know, I I said, people lot, I know sounds like really like odd. But I, uh, when before it became an F one, I I used to be J. Lo. You write just a bit of fun. Very much bad dream DJ. Stuff like really into house music or any kind of dance studio is nice, but that's generated the house or translate love the last, um I stopped doing it because I thought I had to get serious now and every arbitrary that had no grounding in anything really other than life. That's just what I thought you should probably do. It was very silly decision because it was a huge creative output for me. Music awards on, but there's a there's a community around it and there's events that is all these different things right? And I lost that for a while on, but was not a very good thing. But he looked at what I do now. The lows Divorce, which you know, if anybody's ever made a track on logic, you know that editing a podcast is child's play compared to creating something on logic, writes a building, our music track. So what? I would set my advice. Where around the house is to get here is keep your hobbies because they're actually really good skills, especially if they're around things like audio editing, video editing, all that sort of stuff, whether it's writing, whether it's graphic design and just resting things, that Celexa is there. But all of that stuff that I was kind of interested in and kind of did it was kind of get out and just kept my hand in eventually became skills. And within the modern world, you do not know what is going to be a skill tomorrow. Like I'm sure everybody that is making videos on tip talks. Now, that is just gonna be a skilled people can monetize very quickly. And that way, you know, I would hire someone now that had skills. Did you bang out video really quickly for our clients? So, like, if you enjoy that stuff, lean into it, get good at it. Don't sacrifice because you think you should be doing something else, but also figure out what you like doing. Well, I think that's really important as a medical issue. You've got low the time you got time where you wouldn't have previously. You never know what you can combine with medicine either. You know, I took one in the forecast a lot about people that even have the slightest inkling towards engineering or computer science. Do it. Because if you can do a walk around with the knowledge without to build something, we'll code something. You're gonna be a much happier medic. Yeah, trust me. Because you're going to solve your problems A heck of a lot. So, yeah, if you want to just learn pythons or something where you want to do an engineering degree? Of course, all the infections free online, right? Doesn't eat beneficial bit of paper. But it Zaveri wealth. They said a lot now, but I do believe it that you can. You can marry so many skills of medicine. Now where's that really wasn't something that you could do. It wasn't something very well, thunder or done that scale a long time ago. So I definitely believe in that for medical shoes, I think shadowing different people as well, going practical Now I think one thing that I did that was so beneficial is shadowing management. There's a lot of them and this whether your medical student with your junior doctor has load of them enough between managers and clinicians, I think that is not very good. Everyone's just trying to do the same stuff, so the same problems get through the day. You know, um or empathy that you can have with the other people on that side of the fence, the better you can do a heck of a lot together. Trust me, you partnered with people on that side of the fence to get things done. You could make a heck of a lot of impact. So take you take some stable, even going to shut the chief exact takes. Mr. T leave going shut. The finance director. It takes him that even just shut dose. Um, any chest management graduates that at the same age as you, um, Onda, you might really enjoy it. Your will help of a lot on. But you never know what's going to come of that. And you're probably the only person you are still doing it as well, which is gonna give you an edge, which means you're gonna know something or other people don't. Um and that might spark something. It's the sort of thing that you know if you're gonna be a future clinical director or something like that. Yeah, You just gonna get experience soon than everybody else. So you know, you'll be on a path the leadership doing that stuff if it is indeed what you enjoy. Um, so definitely shadowing fellowships. A great you know, junior doctors Now, I think if you if you're looking at doing other things outside of medicine. Fellowship years are awesome because foot in put out of medicine, you can take your Aleve Afterwards. You can have a fellowship here and carve your own job in that year if you really wanted to, or you can pick up that skill and go and do another first year pick up our skilled on the other first ship and then all of a sudden you think about later skills to the stuff. Um, I think for for consultants and stuff, it's it's mawr. I mean, I don't know. It is difficult week, so I'm, you know, my friends becoming consultants now, interestingly, Um, yeah, super interesting that realizing that Oh, my God. Like if I like mid thirties Jesus, everyone is literally consultants now and then when you have medicine cures that you like Oh, my God. That's so yeah, I think if again, you're probably blessed with a bit more time that you can choose to do other things and you know, with that three day week. But you've gone again. I'm being facetious, but you can lead into other stuff. Just make sure it's what you enjoy. Essentially, when it comes to entrepreneurship on darting your business. I think you've got it. Either You've got to either one of monetize a skill that you've got. You've got to really want to solve the problem. I think it's got to be one of those two things, really. I think I mixture of the two. I think I had seen the problem a lot, that health, that companies weren't communicating properly in the right way. They didn't have any agencies that new and new them understood them could support them. It's very difficult thing to know the difference. You know, CCG in an ICS and the GP practice and a salaried one. And there's a partner, one in the U. S. Employer and you know so many knish audiences there. And you need to make sure you don't, you know, annoyed these ones in favor of like getting these ones. And there's a lot of nuance. We understand that. And I think that was the it was a gradual thing mean knowing that okay, this is and running accelerated. It was like I was helping communication a lots and then it was realizing, Hey, it is actually a real business model here because I've used a couple of agencies myself and not very underwhelming experience. It was like, Well, maybe I could get a few people and save them were the experts and then we just saw a dead. And then it's gone really well. So yeah, really. The people have that bright idea where they're like, Ah, there's this thing I'm going to do and build. It's going Be amazing. I think 200 episodes my poor cast later and two and your entrepreneurs later that I've spoken to. It's generally a gradual discovery of the problem until you get to a point that you're confident you can build a solution. So I think that's it. And the same to me. It was a gradual understanding of that problem and seeing it over and over and over in different ways and different vantage point of incidents system, Um, and in my case, or 10 years of being and helpful health sec, like the problem never really got solved and say around like, but that's that's just that I think if you got a real desire to solve the problem, we've got a skill that you really want to monetize. Those are the two ways to then depends on tradition, I would say. And I've got another. Sorry. I'm sorry. Um, what does your day to date look like now that your outside of medicine uh, good question. I can open up my calendar and tell you what I did this morning. Say, uh, what I did today. So first thing what? The dog walk the puppy then went to physio Say it was back home by by there, if they did a lot hard a sink meeting with my co founder where we talked about. We have a regular Tuesday meeting where we talk about finances. We run through the finances, the company HR, and hiring marketing, new business on baclofen strategy. So we did that this morning. For how an hour, hour and a half without out of brainstorm for one of our clients are creative meeting where he talks about their content strategies. We talked about their podcast, a graphic design, that video content, and we thought talked about, um, widen the audiences that were reaching on social media. So talks about some influence marketing potentially in some other different things for a client. So we did that, um, then had a client meeting. So I met with one of our other clients. Talk about strategy for next 3 to 6 months. That was to do it. Prn content Onda Aleve This afternoon I have been judging a pitch in competition for London business school for what they call their health tech challenge. So I saw pictures from six different early state health companies, Uh, one of which was awesome, uh, at an A I, uh, platform for intensive care. There's a similar one in the US, but I didn't realize this one in the UK and so So it's so I'm gonna follow up with them and going to have a call with them. Probably after this, Hopefully and then right. A forms article on it. I I in intensive care So pretty random on eclectic. But that literally is my day today. I am because they ridiculous portfolio career that you you don't you don't need to do it all in one day. I did play rock it legal my PlayStation for about 40 minutes earlier in the day, so you should have should have acted. Yeah. Hudson Lunch played rocket league course of amazed 40 minutes had a rant about life. And then, uh, yeah, went well. Yes, of course. Well, just in the interest of giving you giving you some time to prep for your upcoming business call, one last question was it was for you and just quite a snappy one. Which is simply what? What's the single most important lesson? Or take home message that you've that you've learned in your in your career this far? And I'm sure you'll have much monster. Yeah, So I think the biggest thing that I've learned actually is that when it comes to carving your own path or doing more of what you enjoy or changing what you do, everything is in your control. I know it sounds ridiculous. Each easiest whole everything is everything is actually possible, usually to figure out a way of doing it. And I thought that's on you. And when I when I took that personal responsibility and I thought, Well, hold on a minute. Nobody's going to solve this problem for me. Like I I don't love the medicine here like I'm good at these other things. How do I turn this into reality myself? How do I actually do it? You know there was that, You know, I stand around, complain about things and get a bad mood about there. And they nobody is going to solve that problem apart from you because frankly, nobody cares. Except you like they've all got their own things going on. Nobody's gonna stop room for you. And I think once I understood that, it became about, you know, actually just grafting in a way in, like going to have lows of events and like trying to actually network people hate doing that stuff. But, you know, I would do it, and I try and pick us information from different people and finance of the thing to go to and jump on cause of people to see ti understand that learn more about stuff. It was that. So I'd say that if you're looking to do something different, whether it's a really small literation, whether it's that you want to change a Friday afternoon list to a Wednesday morning list because you're sick of a Friday afternoon, that it's all in your control, it's every everything is in your control. So it's just about making a plan, being accountable and actually and actually going and doing now? There is, like, you know, to survive a bias their of like, You know, I did it. Here I am. I'm no, I've not made it. I don't consider myself successful. I think it's I think it's always a moving target. You know? I keep sainted people, you know, even X like to take your eye football. If we get five emails all of a sudden, we got heart from our clients and mike. Then we're ready. Script, You know, five emails later that can happen. So you know your waist you raise a few miles away. You know, you've got a that that that is also in my control. Um, the even. What? What other people do in the organization that is still down to me, that it's still my fault if things go wrong because I haven't done my job in making sure things were called properly or the the state didn't happen a lot, these different things. So I think the way that I keep myself happiest is knowing that everything is my fault. But knowing everything is in my control because that work those the two sides, the same coin, which means that if I put the hours in completely graft. And if I make sure I give myself enough creative time with no meetings, I go on walks to think of ideas. You know, it's all a balance. And if I get that balance right, I can just keep moving forwards. And that's all what anybody is trying to do. But 1 ft in front of the other Keep going, um, on it. He'll be fine, right? Well, what a positive note on thing that I can't really hopeful about that. Um, Thank you, Doctor James. Summary for coming in Speaking to us for this thing. Most inaugural of episodes off this medal. Virtual elective around the world. Thank you for being such amazing speaker. You clearly incredibly practiced. Well, it's been really enlightening on, I'm sure. I'm sure all those listening home, uh, will agree. That's where we'll sign off. Thank you from all of us. Thank you. Once again, James, and we'll see well on the next episode. Whenever that happens to be one final thing, I'll say, If people do you want to get in touch with me and feel free to get in touch, ask me the questions that you've got. I speak to loads of people, medical students, junior doctors, clinicians of all you know, shapes and sizes. Whatever you wanna get in touch with me, linked in message me is the best way. So admit only then, right. Message in in this one. Out. A friend bit, um, had me on there on I will do my best to get back to you. I get back to 90% of my linked in messages. Say, um, you can always get me on the, um you can learn more about what we do at some X. Look at you, okay?