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this'll. Siris is part of our mission, really in reinstating electives for healthcare professionals from medical students, those who have missed I and during cove it. But it's also part of our broader mission, which is to democratize access to greet healthcare training. We're gonna post in the link to our profile page on metal, which has a list of all of the upcoming events that we've got going on. If you run organization, you can also create the same type of list. You can publish those events across our Discover events. Platform reaches tens of thousands of healthcare professionals every month so you can attract healthcare professionals to your course. If you would like a certificate of attendance, we're gonna be picking those like to alrededor delegates at the end. And again, if you're running, course yourself with your organization. You are also able to do that now, using single button on metal. You can set it up for your organization right there. If you're looking for other courses, conferences, CPD events, metal dot org's slash events, you'll be able to see events from hundreds of organizations in healthcare organized in one place. You got something going on every single night of the week. If you want to, you can search by. Topic is really dive in. So without any further, do I'm going on over to Aqua and only who are gonna have an awesome conversation. Hi. My name is that class is I'm a full three and postgraduate medical student at lest up. I'm interested in all things medical education and surgery in particular. And passion about urology specific. The men's reproductive health, formally known as in college. It's been amazing opportunity to involve the virtual active around the world on behalf of Middle alongside my host, the now newly qualify Doctor only button. Hi, everyone. Welcome to a quick fireside chats on behalf of metal and the actual active will be speaking too exciting. Guess from all over the world on a variety of topics. My name's Aqua. I'm currently 1/4 year medical student, I Lester. And how amazing yesterday is profit salumi. Must be name. Um, I let her introduce herself in a second, and today will be going through all about her journey and noble surgery. Go for it. Thank you so much. Uh, really excited to be here. I'm still, um I'm assuming I'm an associate professor at the University of Cape Town. I'm the head of global surgery. I'm also a world economic Forum and young scientists and in obstetrician and gonna colleges by chaining and president the of African condition signed to society and vice president of the women in Double Health's of every injector. Well, you here with you know what an introduction you already told us about so much. Um, so I guess our viewers will want to know. How did you get to this point? Yeah, So I think it really all started off after finishing my medicine degree doing my MPC HB in South Africa. And it was later when I was working in a rural hospital that I really started to see what was wrong in the system and started picking up, you know, think that could have been done better. Initially, I thought I just needed to to to become a specialist and that if I'm a specialist, they'll be able to make better decisions, have better outcomes. But even after specializing, I realize that I'm not going to reduce the maternal mortality rate on my own that you know, they were really house system factors. It wasn't just about surgery and how well they could do so. I did a PhD after after qualifying as a specialist and then decided to venture into global health and spent a year overseas at the Harvard Medical School. But such as this general hospital doing a fellowship, which then launch me into the world of global surgery. Wow. Okay, I guess, um, with your fellowship What? What? What was the biggest take home points? You, uh, so when it was amazing, Teo, you know, to be in another country, See how things that dad meet people from from everywhere, literally getting inspiration. And I think the real concept of global surgery I mean, it was I would attend some of the Harvard PGS s C meetings, you know, And that's how I really started learning about global surgery and seeing how my work up today and was really good. Well, surgery because I done my PhD looking at zero in section complications on. So it became a natural next step after my fellowship to to move into that world of off label surgery, which is what happened. Well, on, um what is your normal day to day. You look like now. Yeah. So, you know, for the past two years, we've been developing on growing the city global surgery division. So I've been very administrative and and and and being a scientist and, you know, running a research program. And so it's really been more about leadership duties, research. Uh, advocacy. Onda haven't really had the time to focus on my clinical poor fit my clinical journey on. So it's really being, you know, supervising students, masters, PhDs being being a supervisor, mentor to people. And, yeah, so my day is very much a lot behind the laptop now, especially during covet times. I go to the office, have lots of meetings with a lot of international stakeholders, you know? So it's it's it's been quite fine and exciting journey very different from what I was doing five years ago. Okay? And I guess from the perspective off, you know, like me. I am just 1/4 year medical student. How did you get from? I guess my position to your position. Like what made you I guess what? What motivated you to pursue this off? Yeah, So I mean, it was definitely not planned, so it wasn't, You know, 20 years ago, I would have never have drink. They don't be way. I am right now on and I think the really thing was was was seeing the challenges along the way, you know, and seeing challenges, responding to them and saying, What can I do differently? How can I contribute to the solution on Ben opportunities and grabbing opportunities along the way? So somehow, I guess you know, I had this big dream that are being a part of making a positive contribution to the world, you know, and it somehow has worked in that way. But it definitely I didn't have a rude map. And I just think if we do the things that we passionate about, try solving problems where we see them. You know, you kind of end up on your natural part part, and you get to a human to be and other any things that throughout all of this, that surprised you all shocked you so apart from, you know, starting to to understand more about health system problems and deficiencies, because as a condition, you are trained with the assumption that you'll be working in a place where you've got all the resource is you're trained in tertiary hospitals, where you think you'll be working in a team where everyone knows what to do, and then you call it into the really world. But it's not like that, and and inside, only you realize that the outcome's off patients up beyond my control. You know, everything that I learned is not going to help me here, you know, and and a lot of conditions you know, live with with that pain of trying to, especially in the middle income countries. And what we learned is not what we have to apply on a day to day basis. So I think learning about health systems was was the first most important. Listen, but the other one was was was juggling and learning how to juggle is as a woman as a young woman and you know, no one really prepares you for you might have to write exams while stool looking after young kids and and all of those and those are things that you have to learn and adopt to because in because no one prepares you for for the how to live your life whilst doing all of these things, Okay. And, um, I guess Are there any notable all stand out experiences that you've you know, you've seen first half? Yeah. So the think the big ones for me was was the recognitions that have received from my country from from other organizations as well the most important one. Waas in 2017 way I received the trail Place and Young Achieve Award from the president of South Africa. I think that was ah, big defending moment for me because when you get recognized for the little that you doing by by people in such powerful positions and and by your country, you know it it it gives you a push to keep going. And then And it also shows you that what you're doing is important and worthwhile and then obviously becoming a world economic forum. Young scientists also just a national international equity late that, you know, I would have never dreamt of something so amazing. And and then last year has chosen, as amongst the 50 most powerful women in South Africa, and again as as somebody who's just doing what they're passionate about, You know, you don't dream about some of these recognitions. And so those have been moments for me in my career. We I really gave me that gave me a huge push to to keep going because I realized that people see what I'm doing and that it's it matters. Yeah, and, um, this is going to be changing off tone, but, um, what has Bean the worst? It's off your job so far. Well, have you seen? That's really like, you know, in on. So I think, having to make difficulties ish ins about way I want my career to go. Uh, you know, in the beginning, you think I can do it all. I can be a condition that could be a scientist I can be. And, you know, an educator. I could be a leader administrating on, and you realize that I actually can't do everything I need to find the things that I'm really passionate about and the things that I do well and try to create some sort of package way I can, you know, sort of to get the best out of what I can do. And that has been one of the things as a pioneer and my in in my country and, um, my continent trying to create global surgery curriculums, you know, is is not something that everyone can do it, you know. Ah, and that has been my sacrifice. That Yeah. Sorry. That Sorry. Yeah. So that has been my sacrifice that I'll focus on on some of those things, knowing that, you know, not everyone is able to give that contribution. And, you know, maybe later, at another stage in life, I'll be able to choose at the things that I've had to neglect over the past few years. Okay, Uh, I mean, that does some stressful, but somehow you're managing and your grades, you've been recognized. And so my next question is, what are The biggest difference is between your where you are now to your normal finish, a clinical job. So it's very out of the box. It's it's it's critical thinking. It's it's it's great. It's creativity, you know, you constantly trying to see what can we do? What can we introduce? Let's design a short course. Let's design something interesting. It's it's about networking it zits about bringing people in and looking after them on creating safe spaces for for for young people who want to come into into this field where they can feel, you know, at home and feel like this is what they want to do with their careers. The clinical platform isn't as creative. You know. It's it's it's often this is how you do things. This is these are the guidelines and you just have to follow them. Uh, you have to work. You know, I couldn't carry teen you. You're very busy, you know, during the day, at night, on call, you know, So it's it's it's a completely different space on and, you know, it's It's yeah, So I really had to get out of the box to think, to do, to be able to do what I'm doing. Okay, Do you think you can expand a little bit more about what you actually do only because the viewers may not have any clue about you know what? What, you what you do. He's so so our same areas in global surgery, a juicy tea. It's it's education research. And in Clemente Shin on the education is designing new curriculums. It's it's it's teaching, it's We've got a master's program of got a PhD program. It's supervising students that are looking at at global surgery problems, trying to come up with new answers. New solutions. Looking at Health system Surgical challenge is so it's it's It's very different from trying to answer a clinical research question, too. Things like implementation, science and qualitative studies, transponders, then patient journeys and trying to understand you know what is access to Kate? What is the admit need off A s? So that's that's that's that's that's education with research projects on then implementation. It's running practical projects that you could do in a community in a facility in a population level type of type of projects and advocacy as well, you know, trying to work with with with with governments or with policymakers trying to come up with surgical solutions. So those are kind of the full areas that I sort of work around. Is there any way that I guess view is could be involved in in this little Yeah, definitely. So we work very closely with medical students, have got a research program just for medical students way, way we get them to we remain to them for your or to allow them to research projects, supervise them in, in in publications, those who want to write papers. And then we've got a research fellowship program for for people who want to do the masters for a PhD with us on, then people can can can partner with us to do implementation projects. And that could be people anywhere, you know, on the African continent outside. Sometimes your partner with companies with NGOs, you know. And then we also work, as I said, with policymakers and people that might be a decision makers, you know? So it's there's a lot to that. Then we do, and there's a lot, lot of places where we can where people can get involved. Well, that sounds great, hopefully, fingers crossed. If you congest email us like some links and stuff that we can share later on, um, so profit. Do you think you can tell us the difference between I guess low income for us is high in the cup. He's like one of the biggest problems that you've you know, seen so far. No. So, uh, no meddling and lower and lower middle income countries. What you might find is, you know, ah hospital really is no such. You know, like it's ZMA tickle officers. It's junior doctors who are operating. Uh, you might not have a blood bank nearby. You know, you might have issues with electricity here nor in water and and shortages or lack of equipment, you know, So it's it's cases. It's way, you know what you want to do. And you know what needs to be done. But you don't have all the resource is to do it. So the fact that you are not doing sit in operations doesn't mean that the community doesn't need those operations. You know, people will be there. You know the fact that you can't do a cataract surgery? Does it mean that sure don't have people, you know you need it, Um, but in high income countries, you know, these resource is their systems. They these these data, you know, it's it's it's it's and sometimes perhaps excess in certain places where you might find that, you know, it's it's it's trying to manage. What you'll do with excess resource is and you know, I know they. I mean, every place has got its challenges, and it's difference is, uh, but but, you know, resource is and systems and how systems are managed. It's slightly different, I think, the quality off doctors, insurgents that we train. I think it's it's they're similar in. In fact, I might be biased and see some of it. Maybe we've got better trained surgeons here because from the time we leave medical school, you are being taught how to operate. And so by the time you become a surgeon, you know you've done, you know, hundreds of off operations of surgical procedures. Eso the issue is not is not so much the training off the surgeon, In my opinion, it's It's the surgeon working in and in a place where they don't have enough resources or systems are not well organized, you know, and all the shortage of surgeons in many places, you know, if you've got a country with isn't a cardio the restick surgeon at all, you know what happens to all of those patients, you know? So so those. Yeah, so that's that's that's a picture that I hope you know, would would paint some of the differences. You know, you've you completely painted the picture that thank you so much. Yeah, And the other thing as well is How does double double surgery change between high income countries than no income countries? Because those of us who are working in the income countries are facing the challenges in front of us? We've gone through the system which planed in the system. It's not just about getting in policies in place, you know, and hoping the policies will will will change things. It's it's about. It's about implementation. It's about, you know, doing more than just. It's about change on the ground, you know? How do we get systems to change our You know So and it's it's, it's, it's it's not tourism here. Know you. It's it's, it's it's not a travel to another country and see how you can help them. It's it's How can I solve the problems in my own city and the suspects, the systems or partner with, you know how, like, how can I improve the health care system where I am? Because if we don't, it's gonna affect me as well, you know. You know, it's it's not about them, it's Z about us, and and I think for for a lot of high income countries it's about trying to teach and and show students how things are different. But he's a very them. An ass is, you know, it's it's It's not as personal, you know, because you can understand what's happening to your neighbor. But until you're in your neighbor's house and and you are there, what time that is affected by what you know, this is your house. You are that neighbor, you know, you're you're you're well, you're thinking changes and it's different so but we all need need each other because even with my experience, spending time in the high income country also made me to learn about systems and to see how things are done differently. And so I take what I learned in high income countries to try and see how I can contribute to the change and bring some of those things where I am. Wow, can you give us an example off a change that you brought? Uh, I mean, um, it's it's, you know, it's been it's been working progress, you know, because even just even it's it's Yeah, I mean, there's there's so much that that I've seen trying to do, even in the way that I teach medical students because Yeah, I was very hierarchical. For example. You know, a patriarchal, if I may use the words way with students are not treated as you know, equal partners, you know, and and then you've got students that that, you know, waiting for one day or become a specialist and I'll be taken seriously. And everyone around you has got imposters in Germany runs afraid and and the patients are the victims on. So having bean in a place where I saw, you know, students being appreciated and being taught and being listened to Those are some of the things that I do. And so I work with students that are feeling very empowered. Students who know that, you know, they taken seriously and they can be part of a part of solutions. So a lot of the change that I've tried to implement has been more behavior change, you know, and trying to to change the culture around around us here versus, you know, versus changing. I don't know. Resource is insistence, except you. But then that itself is a catalyst full of these changes to eventually come about because you weren't inspiring the next generation. So in a way, you were creating that. You know, that tree with all the routes you were creating, you know, so that in itself is great. Um, I think you problem from what I understand. So you're this amazing global surgery? Forget, but I'm buying your clinical side. You're also himself upset dining especially. Okay. So from those two steps, how would you like more advice? Would you give two students interested in both global surgery and up some guy? Let's do one by lump. Yes, so I mean obstetrics and gynecology. I mean, that's That's my my specialty. That's what I stand, you know, the lost 15 years of my life, specializing and then becoming a specialist and working as a condition running a labor ward hike a ward exit. And it's really about being being being passionate about about, you know, childbirth, about about working with gynecology patients, etcetera. It's it's about really wanting to be in women's health and making a difference. So you have to be somebody that is passionate about women's health and and return all health at the same time. And, um and you know, these these obstetrics off are so many things like for the person who is more wired to as being a physician. You know, you could get into into Maternal Med Center, which, which, you know you will be working closely with physicians answering difficult, uh, looking off, testing. It'll patients. But there's also an entire surgical side, and I think Ups and Cagney could see the best of full that you can be both the surgeon and physician at the same time and decide which one you prefer more just juggle both at the same time, So that would be obstetrics and gynecology. But if you interested in in In In global Health, you know, and and looking at it from from obstetrics perspective because I started asking myself questions like Why? Why is the moment in or mortality in certain countries and other places, you know? And that's kind of how I moved a bit out of objects and guide me and looking at, um, looking at it headed from a global health perspective. And so if you concerned about disparities and looking for equity, and how can we provide better healthcare for all you know, sustainable development, uh, girls development goals, you you know, universal health coverage. If those other kinds of things that get you invited and you wanting to make a difference. Um, that would be the the global surgery. Jenny. Wow. I was, like, the perfect answer. Basically. Okay. And, um, what are you? I guess you're five most important things that you have learned so far. Okay, so one is that, you know, no government on its own can can can stop all the problems that that the country has. You know, it's partnerships. It stakeholders from investors, funders, conditions, academics, and so partnerships are very important, you know, to to solve some of the problems that we want to solve. Uh, two. You should never sit back and say somebody else's program. Um, you know, I I learned to raise up my hand and say, I will do this. I want to be part of fixing the problem and and and and that's that's what we do. We don't look and say People have messed up things, you know, we we've all antirougeurs. We act, we find things to do. Three. Do what you love. Do what you're passionate about. You know, it's easy to to to get a lot done. And and Tonto Oy the work you do to get up in the morning or even to sleep late when you love what you're doing. So my work. I'm very passionate about it. And so it's It's not stressful, Teo to do what I'm doing. It's It's what I love doing, uh, four. Find places where you all thrive, you know, in the environment that you you work in, not every environment will take out the most of the best out of you. Some places, in fact, we'll we'll make it impossible even for you to to do the things that you are going to do. So you need to to to be self conscious and and see where you thrive and and yeah, and and find those places and then five. You know, uh, it's important to to to mentor people and and and to develop the next generation. And even if you don't think you've got a lot to offer. But you might be able to make a difference to somebody else who's looking for a role model of somebody to hold their hand and and help them. So it shouldn't always a be about to me, me, me. Sometimes you need to stop and say, you know, be outside for cost and try to help with that. You can help. It's amazing. Um, if you were to go back in time, you know, 15, 20 years ago, would you do everything that you've done again? So what do you do? Things different? I think if I were to go back in time out, want to end up exactly where I am right now. But, you know, our would be lying if I said it was an easy journey or that dress. It was the most pleasant journey, you know, some some some of the doors that open for me, where after we're because of other doors closing, you know, And sometimes that's just how how life happens that, like I said, in the beginning, you end up where you were meant to be. But it's not always the smoothest Ah, journey. You know, you go through your challenges, you find you go through difficulty phases. But I doubt honestly still want to end up where I am. Just perhaps choose a a smooth that road apart. Thank you for your honesty. Um, from my perspective. And I'm sure the view is you've somehow managed to balance so much. What would be your best advice on someone who is, you know, trying to balance? Especially, you know, as you said, as a as a woman and thinking about Children as well would be the best, Um, mechanism for that who? So I think it's it's It's very important to be self away and and to be honest with yourself and to be honest with those who are around you, you know, like I I don't try to be supermom or to be supermen or anything. I'm very a nested what I can do, where my limits are, and and I don't beat myself up for the things that I can't do. The things that I didn't get it right, you know? So so we try to juggle and to pelant, but we get help along the way. You know, it's zapping a support system. It's having a family structure. It's having people that you know if I have to travel and have to live, live my kids alone. Uh, you know, I've got a husband after after I've got somebody who's who's helping me in my home. Enough, it it's it's It's It's a system. It's a network. It Zuno it's it's not me trying to do everything right and getting it right. And and so I think being able to see, you know, to be honest with myself, a part that I can carry and what a con helps me. Because I'm constantly able to I know when to say yes, I know when to say no, and and I know when to ask for help. And I also know when to say I'm not coping. I need a break in a timeout. So it I think that that helps to keep, you know, so that I'm not feeling overwhelmed at times, you know? Uh, yeah, thank you so much. And I think we can record up. I'm in a bit. Is there anything else you would like to add or to tell the future generation off medical students? Anything at all? No, I think for for me by my biggest listen from my journey was was was coming out my own part. You know, you'll be surrounded by so many people who've got brilliant ideas of what you can do with your life. And people will tell you you specialize or do this or do that. But you have to follow your heart and your passion, your passions and your dreams and and And don't be limited by what you see around you. You know, when I was in medical school, there was no global surgery, you know, just still didn't exist at all. You know s O to think that, you know, years later I would be heading up global surgery. I couldn't have imagined that you know so bad. It's also being able to to step out of your world in what surrounds you and to look around and say This is the problem that I want to solve, you know, And and someone will give it a name, you know? Or you might find that there is a community out in another country that is actually doing what you've always gems of doing, and and it's a matter off time before you know, the stars align and you're able to to do things that you you only imagined you could do. So that would be my encouragement that don't put yourself in a box and follow your dreams and and and and and reinvent the wheel. Do something that no one else is has seen. Sounds amazing. I is there. What's the best way that, um, students could read reach out to see if they wanted to ask for advice. So I'm available via email. Social media. I think social media is probably the easiest Ray. Sometimes, you know, people in box Me on my t o r Facebook, that's obviously, you know, uh, an easier weight. Do it. And sometimes I miss some of the influxes, but obviously, the more formal way of doing it would be by by sending an email. And we've got a website, uh, global surgery. True CT done a CT today and on the web sites, you've got contact details and an email address that you could send emails to, And they'll reach me, and I'll be able to respond or will be able to help So outside, just yeah, following the channels. Thank you so much on, But, um, I think that will bring this fireside to an end. Thank you so much profit. Um, that's being amazing inside, particularly all the advice that you've given as really even hit me hot too. Especially as you know an aspiring surgeon who wants to be a mother one day. Um, thank you so much. Um, hopefully some med students will be scurrying to your inbox. So do you reach out, um, and look out for them thing.