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Uh Hello and welcome everyone. Uh Today, we've got a talk from doctor Andrew Ting. Uh He did his SFP in Oxford as well. Oxford have a SFP talks. Um But he says it's basically talk about uh why he chose an SFP. Um And whether or not SPU really and again, answer your questions. So if you have any questions do that, just stick to read them for team. Uh But other than that over to you, thanks Miggy. Um Yeah. So if anyone has any questions, just put it in the chart, I'll try and pick up a few as I go along or if Miggy um if you shout out any burning questions, um If not, I'll answer the rest of them at the end. Um Let me just show my slides. So, hello, everyone. Uh My name is Andrew and I'm a core surgical training, a trainee in TNO and a little bit about me uh to work. So I graduated from Imperial in 2021. I did my BS C A, my integrated BS C in bioengineering. And then so about 23 years ago, I was at, I was in your stage. Um applying for the SFP around end of 2020. I ended up applying for both Oxford and London and I ended up taking up my Oxford AFP offer and that's what I've been doing for the past two years. So, doing a TNO research themed AFP in Oxford. And what I'm doing right now is about to start a core surgical training next month, which will last for the next two years. And I'll be talking about my experiences about applying for the SFP and a few tips and tricks here and there and give you an insight of what it's like. Um And so for those of you who don't know what the SFP is. So a specialized foundation program uh or previously known as the academic foundation program, this is uh this runs parallel to the normal foundation program. But instead of uh instead of having six month, six blocks of four month rotations, you get four months off of for one of your rotations just purely for research. And the SFP is the first step in the nehr integrated academic training pathway. So if you can see in this graph or in this diagram, the AFP is what comes after medical school. And then the next stage after that, you apply for an academic Clinical Fellowship, which is the equivalent of your core training years for the pure clinical doctors. And then after that, you can apply for clinical lectureship. Um and this is the training pathway um sort of designed for, to, to train our clinical academics in the UK. The good thing about this pathway is that you can join and enter and leave whenever you want. And so if you take up an AFP, you're not, you're not bound to carry on to doing an ACF or a clinical lectureship, you can decide that maybe it's not for you and just step off the academic pathway and just go into normal training. And likewise, if you don't get into an AFP, this time around, you can always apply for an ACF or clinical lectureship in the next stage. But obviously, having dedicated time to do your research will make you much more likely to get the next few job posts. And so the SFP now is organized into three main branches. So there's the most common one which is research and I think it's done in every deanery, then you have things like medical education and leadership and management, which are on the rise in terms of the number of job posts. And so some deaneries may or may not offer it. So it's always worth checking out what they've, what deanery offers, what strands. And so because I did my A FP in research, I only really know uh about the research pathway. I don't know too much about medical education or leadership management, unfortunately, and just to go through a few pros and cons of the A FP. Um So I think there are, I think the A FP is fantastic. There's so many uh pros and I'm, I've just tried to distill it down into a few bullet points. So, number one, what it says on the tin is that it gives you, you know, dedicate it for four months just to work on your research project. You can have multiple things going on. You don't, you're not bound to doing a specific research project most of the time you can do other things with your time as well. And you know, as doctors, you will probably have to work on your portfolio even if you're not an academic and just being able to do this during some paid time in lieu of another clinical rotation is just really good. You get to focus in on specific project specific specialty as well during this time. The next pro I've listed is that you get a named academic supervisor during your time. And so what this means is that you'll have a consultant who is sort of, they have a vested interest in making you making you succeed because it reflects well on them. So they will likely integrate you as into part of their playful team. So you'll get to know their PH D students and other academic trainees underneath them. The next pro is that you also will have at least two more years of university affiliation. So once you leave Imperial, um they will usually just um you know, get rid of your account a few months later, but most A FPs will be um, will be affiliated with the local university. And so you will get um a university email. Great for Unida. You'll get um access to their library and their journals and you'll also get things like Microsoft Word and any other goodies that the university offers, which I thought was a very good deal. Next for the A FP, usually, um all these deaneries will try and try and get all the academic trainees together regularly. And so you have lots of networking opportunities. Um Being able to hear what, what else is going on in your deanie, what the other trainees are doing, what's going on in your specialties and the organized talks and um sort of symposiums, which is a great chance to meet new people. Uh Next, um A pro for applying for the EFP is that um this gives just the act of applying for the EFP preparing for the interview I thought was really sort of really invaluable in terms of being able to see what job applications are like. You know, you've been, you've spent six years in medical school the last time you've had any applications most likely was in, in sixth form, applying for medical school. You probably haven't done an interview and I certainly hadn't done an interview since sixth form time. And so just being, being aware of what to expect and tips and tricks for interviews I thought was a very, was a big pro for applying for the AFP. And indeed, I still use the techniques that I've learned to interview prep and the way uh and the things that, you know, the way how you speak into a camera um is very important and it served me well in my post grad exams and my, my core training applications as well. And then a few more personal pros, not strictly speaking of um academic benefits is that um if you do apply for an A FP and you do get an offer, you will know your, you will know your dean and your rotations in January time. So in about four months from now, you, you'll know your um the dean and rotations, which is two months earlier before everyone else does. Um if they've applied to the normal um normal Foundation program via Oriel and because Imperial does finals in March time, which coincides with the release of the deaneries and having to rank your rotations, having that, you know, having your, having all your the next two years in terms of rotations, all sorts and not having to deal with ranking and going through all the different rotations like your colleagues would in the foundation program around finals time is just a massive benefit in my eyes. Um The next pro I've listed is that back in, back when I applied, most lots of people applied. Um partly because of um you were able to sort of in a way dodge the, the SJT, which was uh sort of very infamous for being somewhat of a random number generator at a time and sort of, you can never predict how well they're going to do and you can't really prepare that well for it. Um But I understand that for you guys, they've replaced it with quite literally a random number generator. Um And so I think it, lots of people will be applying this year uh to the sfe more so than usual just because you get somewhat, uh you get a little bit more control about, you know, your fate for the next two years. And it's always, um it's always good to have essentially a second chance um to get to the deanery that you want. And lastly, and by the time you get to F two, it would having those four months afterwards, not holding a bleep and not being on call. I think lots of you will be very happy when that comes around because working in a hospital, especially as a foundation doctor is absolutely relentless. It's super busy, not very educational at all. And it's just lots of service provision from my experience and being able to get away from that for four months was, was a big pro in my eyes and now moving on to the cons um truth be told, I don't really think there are any, you know, major cons to applying to the SFP and certainly none that should preclude anyone from applying. Um, but in the interest of being balanced, I've listed a few things that are commonly, um by other people for it to be cons. Um, first one is that because the SFP is very competitive, there are only about 500 spots for the entire UK and I think there are about 17,000 normal foundation spots, which means that lots of people will be applying for it. Some deaneries, their competition ratios are about 10 to 1. Some you know can be as low as 2 to 1. Um And so you will need to put in the effort for this. And in final year, lots of people, you know, especially after fifth year, you want to have a nice chill final year. But um yeah, you just have to put in the time between now and December time is when you, you know, you prepare your applications, you prepare your um prepare your interviews. Um And then after that, uh it'll be smooth sailing from January onwards at least till finals. Um Another con for people is that you get four months less clinical experience. Um So you would have instead of like I said earlier, instead of having a one rotation, for example, in acute medicine or in general surgery, you would have your research time instead. And so some people think that it might make them less confident doctors or less competent clinically. Um But I think that if you actually put in the effort in your other rotations of trying to be focused and trying to get as much as you can out of it, you will be on par with your colleagues by the end of it and you also have less time to complete all the mandatory sign offs that you need for foundation training. So the C bds the dots and the mini taxes, all of these are mandatory. They don't stop in med school and you need a certain number of them by the end of F two to, to be able to be signed off and move on to the next stage. And so you just need to be a bit more proactive, a bit more organized to be able to get those sorted. And the last con that I could think of was that you'll be on the base salary for uh the duration of your academic rotation. And this is because you're not on calls, you're not on nights. Um And so you'll be just paid the normal F two salary, which isn't much. But the thing about this is that because you're going to be relatively well rested from doing research, not being on busy wars, not being on calls, you'll actually have the energy on the weekends to locum and so just doing one or two locums picking up a couple of extra shifts a month. Will you know, equal your, your pay from, from other rotations or exceed them even. So, I don't think that's much of a coin really. And just going back to me why I applied. So obviously, um the reasons why I applied very much, very similar to the pros and cons list I listed earlier. But the main reason was that after my BSC in fourth year and doing the group project, I was really interested in doing research. So in fifth year and final year I continued doing, doing some clinical projects and I wanted to dip my toe a little bit more into the world of academia and I wanted to be formally supported in that, you know, get paid for it. Um have a supervisor um as well as um as well as um uh get, yeah, get dedicated time off of that. And another reason why I applied at the time was because I didn't want to leave everything to chance in terms of the GT. And so being able to choose which deanery I applied for and where I wanted to go was, was a big deal and sorry thing. Oh, sorry. Carry on. I just have a question from the group that I was gonna ask you. Yeah. So yeah, I'll just uh this one last point was in hindsight, I think a little bit of it was sort of peer pressure being in the imperial system, everyone seems to be applying for the SFP um all I know all my friends did. Um Most people in the year do and I think the sta the official stats is that uh imperial people uh we do put in the most applications. Um And as I found out when I started foundation, it's not the same case in every university. Um But I'm glad I did. Uh Yeah, there was a question from the group. Yeah. So uh as me Raman asks uh how the selection rotation options work for the setting. Um So for Oxford, in particular, you, when you apply, if uh just if memory serves me, right, you apply through Oriel and when you put in your application, you have to uh you have to, they'll give you the list of, I think 24 jobs in my year and then you have to go through each of them and rank them 1 to 24. So in Oxford, in particular, you have to rank all 24 jobs whether or not you want them or not. Whereas when I applied for London, there were 100 and 20 jobs and what you can do is just apply for the five that you wanted or the 20 that you wanted. And um you can, and so there's pros and cons for both because um it's a bit complex but it's to do with the Cascade system. Um because in Oxford, for example, because you can't, you have to rank everything. You can't really sort of um you can't not get an offer and then wait for the next cascade to give you a better job. So if you get one close to the bottom of your list, you, you you're stuck with that essentially. Um Sorry, just to understand then this is an application that we put in with the initial set of applications on the in the October deadline. Yeah. So um from memory, I can't remember the specifics but yes, it's all within the same um within the same deadline. So I think other dearies you might just apply for the deary in general. And then later on, they'll rank you based on based on other things. But for Oxford, it was all within this, that one same application form. I think it closes in October time. All right. Thank you. Yes. OK. And so the going so my experience with my applications, so I applied for both Oxford and London. Um And so three years ago in final year, I was uh what I thought was a very average applicant. So what in terms of what I had in my portfolio? I had obviously my BS E got a first in that I had a couple of poster presentations. I had a few distinctions from Imperial, no real prizes um and no real publications at the time as well. Um I did have a couple of letters to editors, but I don't even know if they counted or not. Um And So I narrowed it down to these two dearies because I wanted to be close to London and I thought they both offered great things. So Oxford has a great um, a great program where you can choose your supervisor and you get to essentially choose your projects as well. So even if you don't get the clinical rotations that you like, you are free to do whatever academic program that you want. Whereas other places including London, when you apply for the job, it'll be, it'll tell you exactly what kind of research you will need to do. So, for example, um in if you get an offer for pediatrics, you will probably have to do a pediatric themed research project with a pediatric uh doctor. Um but Oxford is quite relaxed in terms of that. And so um I applied for London and bearing in mind, this is all in 2021. It's about two or three years out of date now and I know that London definitely has had some changes. So it's always worth looking at the official UK FPO guidance about how they shortlisting and everything this year. But when I applied, um London almost almost every other Imperial student. Um final year medical student was applying for London and it was a bit of a peer pressure thing I thought in hindsight, but um I was quite set on this, you know, in fifth year and final year wanting to apply for this and I really prepped quite well for this because London is very easy to prepare for in a way because it's very transparent. It's very prescriptive every year was very similar. So they didn't use white space questions at the time. Um And so you just have to list your list, your achievements on the on Oriel. Um And then they'll do it, they'll take it from there. Um When I applied, they had a very strict decile cut off. So if you were anything less than third death, I think they just wouldn't even look at your application. So the moral story from that is to sort of know what each deary, um what each deanery does and how they um how they shortlist applicants for interviews. Because for example, in London, it was very easy to, to know that, you know, if your, if your death sell was much lower than the third death style, um You know, you probably won't be shortlisted for an interview and it would be a waste. So it's best to keep that in mind and sort of send your applications in strategically, obviously, there will be variations from year to year. But I think for things like if it's quite clear cut that you're not going to get interviewed, it's worth knowing that sooner rather than later. So you don't waste your time. Um Yeah. So for London that I'll cut off for the long listing and then in for the short listing, they make you, um, they make you list your publications, your presentations, your, um, your stick, your prizes and your prior degrees. And then from that you get a score and then they rank everyone's score and they interview, I think, sort of double the number of people they have places for and people online do post sort of what the historical cutoffs for getting an interview has been. So, it's always worth talking to your seniors looking online, what um scores would get you an interview. Um And the interview for London was very predictable. They've been doing the same thing every year. Um So it's split into a, an academic um academic portion of the interview and a clinical portion. So the academic portion almost always, they will ask you to critically appraise the randomize controlled trial. And this was what I heavily prepared for. Um you need to be able to critique a paper um off the top of your head after having the paper, you know, for 10 minutes or however long they give you. Um I think one year they did London did give a meta-analysis for the, for the academic station and it really threw lots of people off um and people sending complaints and everything. But, you know, it's, it was fair game. And so it's worth sort of thinking about other um other um study types rather than just randomized control trials. And the off chance you do get um something else, the clinical station was uh 22 scenarios where you get um you know, a deteriorating patient on the ward, um which is a very common scenario as an actual f one. And what they are looking for is for you to be safe, to be sensible, to have a structure and to be able to vocalize your thoughts and just be confident in that. And so it's very much, you are very much able to prepare for this and should be, if you are prepared, you will do well in this. Um And in terms of my Oxford application, um this was quite a last minute decision on my part, I decided sort of the night before applications closed that I wanted to apply for Oxford instead of another Deanery at Carmen, which um but that means that meant that I had to do all the um the whole application process with like 16 hours to go, didn't get much sleep that night would not recommend it. Um Writing the White Space questions was very stressful. Um And I didn't have as much time as I would like to sort of find out what, what Oxford wanted from it and it probably wouldn't have mattered too much because there's not much information about the Oxford application online. So in contrast to um London, where they're super transparent, you know exactly what to expect, you know, how they use the scores and so how they calculate the scores, Oxford was one big black box. They gave you some white space questions that you had to answer. They asked you to list your achievements and everything. But other than that, they, they don't release any information about how they shortlist people's interview. And I still don't know to this day and I ended up getting an interview um for that and they give you about a one weeks, hits up for the interview. Um And so during that one week, it was very much, very intense um interview prep on my part because um Oxford had a specific style of interviews which isn't covered by uh London. So when I spoke to my seniors, Oxford, um you had to critically appraise a paper from memory. So you had to produce your own um study and talk about that off off by heart. And at the time, I didn't think I would get an interview. And so I had prepared for it up until I got the email saying that I've been invited to interview. Um And so moral of this story is to, you know, prepare for your interviews well, in advance, even if you don't think you get an off, get an interview because it's always, it's always worth just being prepared just in case just for that off chance. And all of this interview prep is never wasted. Like I said, uh close to the start, all of this um interview prep that you do for your SFP you will be able to carry it on, you will be able to remember what your techniques, your styles going to core training applications for AFS and for your post grad exams as well. Um And then in January time, um few weeks after the interviews on, on the same day for everyone in the country, you get your uh SFP offers or um they tell you that either you've been rejected outright, which I don't think is very common or they'll put you on a waiting list in, in, in case other people take other offers, or some people just decide to decline any SFP offer. And so I managed to get both offers. So I got a very good Oxford um offer, which was my first choice um set of jobs. And I also got a London um offer which was slightly lowered down on my list. I think it was primary care. And like I said earlier, they're quite set on your research themes. So if I was doing primary care, I would have to really stretch and figure out how to integrate orthopedic surgery into a primary care research project which would be quite difficult. Um But of course, um location was, was quite high up in my priorities. And so I had a tough decision to make and they don't give you much time at all to, to make this decision. So you have about 48 hours if, if I remember correctly from getting the, the offer to either accepting or rejecting it. So you don't, you're not able to sort of hold your, um, your offer and see whether you get what you get in normal foundation, you have to make a decision in those 48 hours or else they automatically reject you if you don't respond to it. Um In the end I decided to go for, for Oxford, um for some of the reasons that I've mentioned earlier. So the main thing was that you get to choose your own supervisor. Uh And so, you know, other places, they'll tell you what kind of research you need to do. Whereas for Oxford, they give you free rein to contact anyone within the university, within the clinical departments to, you know, think of projects and um things that uh that you want to spend your two years doing um Oxford in particular has a very, very good TNO research department. Um And this was something I looked into at the time of sending off my applications, which is one of the reasons why I applied. And so this is a very big reason for, for me accepting it in the end. And so more personal factors for me was that my Oxford offer was in the same trust for two years. Um And this is not very common across all foundation, any foundation jobs um but being able to be in the same city, um not having to worry about learning a new um electronic system, a new hospital, how things work. Um And not having to move over large distances between F one and F two, I thought was a very, um very good thing. And lastly, I thought I've spent, you know, the last 66 years at UNI at Imperial in London and I thought it would be nice to go outside for a bid and then just to just to go through what, what my A FP actually was like, this was my set of jobs that I ended up getting. And so in so I mentioned earlier that A FPs usually are a set of a block of four months, but some places will do instead of four month block, you get daily release throughout the two years. So you get one or two days off throughout those two years. But mine is a bit of a hybrid between, between the two systems. So I got some day release and I've also got a block at the end. And so I started on dermatology with academic day release. So this was Dermatology, a very great department in Oxford, four days a week and I spent one day at home doing research, finishing up projects from med school, doing other things, which was fantastic. Then I got thrown into acute medicine in geriatrics in my second block and then moving on to or geriatrics to finish up F one. And then in F two, I started with GP with some day release. So, um, this was quite similar to dermatology in that. It was a very nice relaxed job. I worked three days a week in a very nice GP practice in Central Oxford. Um, and then I did, um, two days a week, academic day release. Then I moved on to A&E and then my last, my last, uh, rotation was my academic block. So I, uh, this was a weird one. It's not very, I don't think anywhere else does it. But I did two weeks in, uh, TNO in orthopedic surgery in the, the John Ratcliffe, which is a major trauma center. And then I spent the other 3.5 months, um doing research, which was fantastic. And just to go through a bit about what a normal day looked, uh, looked during my two years as an A FP doctor. Um, there was really, no, it was, there wasn't really a typical day as such because it really depended on what rotation I was on and sort of what projects or what things I had going on, um, in my life at the time. But in general, usually I spent the normal working days of 9 to 5 doing, uh, you know, doctoring work, clinical work, uh going to the wards, going to clinics, um, learning how to be a good F one, how to be a safe F one, getting all my sign offs done. And then in the evenings weekends and during my academic block I was doing all the research stuff. So, uh writing manuscripts, applying for grants, applying for ethics, studying for post grad exams, uh attending other courses as well. And it really, like I said, it really depends on what um what I was doing at the time. So for example, when I first started F one, um when I did dermatology, very nice. 9 to 5 job. Um So I had plenty of time, plenty of sort of mental capacity, uh mental energy to, you know, study for my exams. Uh do a, I started a PG cert in medical education during that time. And I was doing lots of research as well, both for med school and starting new projects. But then I, in my second rotation, I was thrown into acute medicine, which is horrendously busy everywhere in any hospital that you go to. And this was in the winter as well. And so I just had, I had no time, I had no energy. I was in the hospital a lot. And when I was not in the hospital, I was just completely Zogg out, didn't have energy to do anything else extra and that was fine. So I, I just, you know, did the, the minimum I could to keep all my projects ticking along um uh during that time. And once I got to the end of it, I started to pick things back up and just to get just to give you an idea of the things that I was involved with, uh, during my two years there. So I was involved with a few different projects. The main ones, um, the, the main one that I was, uh doing was an animal tendon injury trial. So in horses, in sort of high performance horses, um, these horses had, um, tendon injuries following, um following sporting injuries. And we were trying to look at the effect of proprietary medicine, proprietary drug on the effect of the healing of it. And we did a randomized controlled trial to look at that compared to the standard of treatment, which is just rehab at the moment. And so this was very good because it gave me an insight of how trials work and also how also applying for the ethics and getting cutting through all that red tape. Um The next um project that I was involved with involved with was um a big systematic review uh on sort of performance indicators um of hip fractures. So seeing how um seeing how um countries and hospitals around the world sort of measure their outcomes and how they maintain their standards for hip fracture care. And this was really good because I got to work with some really big names in trauma surgery as well as a dedicated systematic reviewer whose entire job is to do systematic reviews. And so I really got an insight of how well things can be structured to do future systematic reviews. Um And also one of my more recent projects is to look at um the use of machine learning and A I to sort of evaluate POSTOP xrays for hip fractures as well. And so I think that we haven't, we've just started it. So I can't say much on it, but it's, it's going to be a very, I think, a very interesting project with some very, very interesting results. And of course, during that time as well, I was involved with other smaller projects where someone else was the lead. Um And I just helped them out and I did audits as well. Um And so in terms of output for the EFP because in academia that's how you're really measured. Um So I managed to get two publications so far with hopefully a few more in the pipeline. Um I got an oral presentation and a couple of post presentations. I managed to sit both parts of the MRC S, which is the post grad exam for surgery, um which really ticks off most people do it during their core training, but you can always do it early and I had lots of time during my academic block during my academic day release. And so I was able to do those early and just having it off my shoulders, being able to focus and operating during core surgical training is is going to be um it's going to be very good I also managed to do a APG cert in medical education in F one, which is great for a future career in teaching and great for the CV as well. I managed to organize a national teaching course um in F one and in F two, I, I um was mainly focused on core, core training applications which ended of a few months ago and managed to get one of my top jobs which I'm very pleased about. So all in all, I think my A FP um was quite successful. Um I managed to get quite a lot out of it and things are still going on. So I, I'm still working on projects with my team um in Oxford and I'll still be keeping in contact with them. And some of the main lessons that I've learned from all of this is that um from dipping my toes in the world of research is that research is very hard work, it gets very busy at times and you need to be very organized, especially because first and foremost, we're doctors, we need to be clinically competent before thinking about, you know, the other extra things, which is where sort of research usually comes under. Um And so you need to be very up to par and very switched on to be able to keep up with your clinical colleagues whilst working slightly less than them clinically. But having said all that, it's very rewarding. It's, it's a great feeling, having a very varied um timetable, being able to do other things, learn about. Um the new technologies, being able to talk to some of the world leaders in different fields, I think is fantastic. And I certainly want to keep uh research as part of my part of my career going forwards. Um Other more practical things that I've learnt during all of this is that um work comes very much in peaks and troughs. So one, you know, one week you'll be drowning in work, you'll have six things, six things going on with three different deadlines all within the next week. Um And you'll feel like you're drowning and other times you'll just be um sort of waiting for journal to come back to you for um the grant and the grant committee to get back to you and you'll just be sat there twitting your thumbs, not having much to do. And so one thing that I've I'm trying to get better at is to have um more than one thing going on at all times. And with those, with those other projects, just being able to keep the portfolio of projects that you're able to sort of um keep on the shelf and work on them as and when you'd like so that you can never, so that you'll never have sort of unproductive moments um during the time. And one last thing is that moving from medical school to foundation, applying for the SFP. And then now in my stage, applying for core training, applying for AFS, applying for registrar jobs. Soon I've realized that the best advice for all these sort of things come from people who are, who have just done it one or two years, both of you who have done it one or two years ago. And so, because they'll have the freshest knowledge, they'll know exactly what is coming up and they'll usually, um, be able to tell you what they wish, they could have done what they, what they wish they didn't do as well so that you don't waste any time. So, um, always reach out to your seniors and going back to me for a bit, um, in, in terms of transparency. Um, just to let you know, I've also applied um, initially for a TNO academic Clinical Fellowship, um, few about almost a year ago now. Um, and unfortunately I was rejected. Um, and, you know, that's life, can't, can't win them all. Um, but like I said, at the start, the beauty of the, the, the, the integrated academic pathway in this country is that you can always step off the treadmill and sort of get back on it, um, whenever you want. So, um, I can always apply for an ECF again this year, which is the plan, uh, or I can just, um, do a phd, um, sort of later down the line without an ECF. Um, obviously it will be much easier to do a phd with an AC F but it's not mandatory at all. And in a similar note, if you don't get an A FP, um, this time around, you can always apply for an AC F or do a phd later on anyway. And so my current trajectory is starting core surgical training and then applying for registrar jobs at SD three and I may or may not do any CF or A PH D along the way. Um One thing to note is that as you get um further along the academic pathway, um the A FP, like I said, has about 500 spots which is not that many to begin with, but as you go further along, so, ac FS and clinical lectureships, they get the number of jobs are dwindled down. So I think Ac Fs there's about 202 150 jobs. Um And so it gets harder and harder at each stage, um which um can be quite daunting, but if you're focused, if you know what you want, um you can, you can definitely um get into the academic um path of it again and also some more practical advice for all of you who are thinking of applying. So I was just looking at the timeline for the SFP and I think it, the applications open in about two weeks time or just under two weeks time. And so, uh now is the time to take stock of your portfolio and make sure you get everything in one centralized location on your computer, um scan all the certificates that you have. Um you know, chase up any letters that you need. For example, um If you've presented at a conference, you need a letter stating that as proof. If you've um got a distinction, make sure you get some evidence of that from Imperial. If you've got a publication, go find its Pot Me ID and everything and make sure that you have it all nice and tidy so that you don't go scrambling around last minute um to uh when applications open, especially if you're waiting on someone else's someone else to send you a letter to sign something. Um Make sure you give them lots of heads up. Um Next thing to do is to have a look at the white space questions. So from my understanding, the all the deaneries now are using the same communal of five or so white space questions. So it should be slightly easier than it was previously where each dean had its own set of questions. And so just go on to the UK FPO website, have a look at what questions they are asking and start thinking about what you're going to write um and try to try to draft some answers to the question and you know, get other people's opinions on it. So ask your consultants, ask your registrars, ask your, your colleagues or your family to give some advice on your, your answers to those questions. Um Next thing to think about is to start collating the resources that you'll be using. So, but what I mean by that is so start start signing up to all the talks. So me talks, um some other people also do some free talks um if you can find them on Twitter or linkedin or whatever. Um Now is the time as well to start thinking about borrowing books from the library or, or borrowing them from your seniors and also um getting some interview, prep resources ready. And so that you're ready to go once you've uh once you've sent off the application, um like I said earlier, um the next tip is to speak to your seniors, get their advice on where they applied, why they applied and sort of what kind of things you can do to, you know, maximize your, your application. So having them look at your white space questions, getting their advice on what to include in your portfolio and what not to. Um and tying into that is to start researching the dearies that you want to apply to. So for the SFP, you're very limited, you can only apply for two deaneries um and just going onto their website figuring out why um why they would be a good fit for you. Um And what they have to offer um would be very good at this stage. So that you can sort of start to tail down your, your application to focus in on specific deaneries. Um And if you're feeling particularly keen, you can start reaching out to potential supervisors in different deaneries. Um So talking about what kind of projects if and when you start an SFP there, um which is, um which they really do, like, um if you do get an interview, being able to talk about, being able to say that you've made contact with a supervisor, had some preliminary chats shows that you've had, you've taken the extra step, you've, you're proactive, you've gone the extra mile to and you're quite serious about this whole research thing. Um And in terms of recommended resources. So these are, I think uh the essentials that everyone should have. So number one, this book for uh this book for the interview, how to read a paper by Trisha Green Hall, very, very good, teaches you how to critically appraise papers. And I think everyone applying to the research branch of SFP at least should read that the Oxford handbook for medical statistics. Very good as well for the clinical interview, the Oxford handbook for Clinical medicine. Just the, just the last chapter for clinical emergencies. That is, that is about 90% of what could come up in the uh in the interview. And so ha having a read through that would be uh you know, would be very good and you should certainly know it off by heart by the time the interview comes around and just a few courses that you can apply, you can go for. So bit disclaimer, I'm, I'm affiliated with Access the SFP, I'm part of the committee this year. So access the SFP. We run a free, completely free SFP, prep course. So we, we've been doing webinars some lectures um over the last uh last few weeks and we'll be doing some uh, until the interview time and then we'll be doing some mock interviews as well. Um It's completely free. We don't want your money at all. We're not trying to sell you anything. Um, and I would recommend, um, signing up for our course, um, in terms of paid courses, make a medic does a SFP prep course, which I went to a few years ago. Um I think it was a very small amount, relatively small amount, about 15 lbs 10 lbs and, and all of it goes to charity and it's run by a, by an Imperial alumni. So I think in terms of paid courses, this is, uh one of the best ones to go to because you really get good value for money. Um, and like I've alluded to earlier, you need to beware of some of the, uh, the paid predatory courses, um, targeting, you know, final year med students who are very anxious about this whole thing. So there are some courses which charge, you know, crazy amounts of money don't really add too much extra and, um, they just prey on people being sort of being, wanting to be best prepared and, um, for the SFP, but in reality, lots of the things or if not, most of the things that they cover in these courses can be found, can be found online for free or if not for very cheap. So think quite carefully. Um, if you want to go for these courses, but if you've got spare money lying around, you want a little bit of extra reassurance, you know, by all means you can sign up for them and um just circling back to, to the, to the uh to the course that um that I help run. So access the SFP, the QR code is on the screen to, to uh register for our course. Um You just need to enter your details and answer a few questions and you'll be on our mailing list. Um Our next session will be next month. Um We'll be doing some interview tips and all our, our sessions are recorded and uploaded to our youtube channel um which you can access for free as well. And also in sort of October time, we'll start organizing mock interviews and pairing you up with people who have done your SFP and your deanie, um which will be a great experience and be very useful for, for um you to get, you know, a sense of what, how, how an interview is run. Um and we officially backed by the Medical Schools Council and University of Bristol. So in summary, the SFP I think was a fantastic two years for me. I think it'll benefit almost everyone and there's really no reason to not apply because even if you don't get a job, um just going through the application process is great because, you know, it, it forces you to um start revising the finances a little bit earlier. It gets you, it teaches you how to read a paper and understand research and how Tora. And also, you know, the interview skills like I mentioned earlier will be very useful down the line. And lastly, um if you get an offer fantastic smooth sailing from here. But if you don't get an offer, you know, it's not the end of the world. You can, there's lots of cascade um cascade uh cascades that they do um in January time. So even if you don't get offer the first time around, they've got many um cascades where they start giving out offers to other people who initially didn't get an offer because other people might drop out or decide not to take up their offer. And again, you can always do research in your own time and you can apply for the AC F later on without an A FP. So I know quite a few people who have got AC F offers this year and they didn't actually do an A FP. So it definitely can be done and um that's it. Thank you. Thank you all for, for coming to my talk. Um If you have any questions, you can either unmute yourself or pop it in the chat. Now, if you could fill up the feedback um with the QR code, that would be great. I've also left my email address there in case anyone has any questions about um Oxford A FP, London A FP or just the A FP in general? Thank you. Uh Thank you. Um Yeah, can everyone please fill out the feedback? I put the link in the chart as well. I just wanna say thanks thing that was actually really helpful. Um And I learned a lot. Um So, yeah, everyone felt the feedback that would be really useful and by all means, sign up to the people. Um Like I just said, it is, it is free. So uh well worth doing. All right. Um If that's all right. Um Yeah, about the academic supervisor that you mentioned for the program. Do they have to be sort of an active NHS doctor or can they be a sort of faculty member in the university? Is there a sort of requirement on that front? Um I truth be told, I don't know the exact answer to that. So my main supervisor was uh a spinal surgeon who's a prop in Oxford. Um I don't think he was practicing clinically at the time, but I think he still had access to the NHS Bits and Bobs. Um, and they were, you know, they, they're very lax Oxford in terms of who, um, who was your supervisor. But I think it should be fine for you to have a supervisor who's not strictly speaking affiliated with the NHS. If not, I'm sure there will be someone within their team who could act as your supervisor for the forms on Horus and all of that, that just the formalities. Alright, thanks a lot. Right. Yeah, if there are any other questions, just ask them now, um before I end the recording, uh yeah, we just got someone typing. So see if you have a question and if you don't want to ask it uh in this call, you can, you can always email me. I'm quite happy to answer um any questions I can see someone typing. So it's just gonna give them a chance. All right. Uh So do you have any advice on contacting supervisors for project, please? By how to approach them and demonstrate interest. Um So for just to give my, my experience for this. So in Oxford, the, the university has will have the different departments. And so I went on to, you know, the orthopedic surgery website that they have for Oxford, looked at a few of the staff members, the consultants, the, the professors and just have a look through what they do and what kind of work they've recently published and where their research interest lies. Um And so if you, if any of that resonates with you and they'll usually be contact details um on the website itself. If not, they'll have their, their, the secretary's email. And so just send them an email cc in the secretary if it's there and just say things like, you know, introduce yourself, say that you are a final year from Imperial um interested in applying for the academic program. Um I've read your, your work. Um And it's great. Can we um can we organize a commu, organize a teams call or something to be able to talk about potential projects that I can get involved with when I um when I start um my job or if, and when I start my job, um what you'll notice that lots of these um academics, they're very busy people and lots of the time they don't respond and it's not because they're rude. It's because they genuinely have so much on their plate that they can't answer every email. And so it's worth, it's worth not putting all your eggs into one basket, send off a few emails, read lots of people's um research profiles. Um And just, yeah, essentially, essentially calling them and they have no, they have no obligation to respond to you. So it's always worth sending off a few emails to different potential supervisors. Um And if they don't have their email address on the on the university website, you can, if you, as long as you get your first name and last name, you can go on to the NHS Outlook. You have an N HSE email, just type it in. So it's usually first name dot last name at NHS dot net. Um and try and get the, get to them from there. Ok. Awesome. Uh I'll just leave a few more minutes, uh if anyone has any last minute questions, but yeah, otherwise they can, they can email you. Yup. Thank you so much, Ting. No worries, Chris. Good luck to everyone with your applications. Ok. How did you, um go about deciding who you were gonna pick project with when, when you offered your, um, turns out. So I, I sent off a few cold emails. Um, a few people responded um, in the end I, so I did my elective with someone in uh one of the London TN hospitals. Um, and I did some work with them during my elective and as it turns out their best mate from Rich Destroyers, um, now works in Oxford and is a profit. So that's how essentially I've, I've uh been given my ade supervisor. Yeah, networking always counts that. Yeah. Yeah, it's just, you just have to meet lots of new people because who knows where it will take you. Um, in my second year towards the end, I also started working with a different, um, a different professor's team. And this was just because, um, you know, he's got, like I said, I had quite a lull in my work load at one point and I just, uh, messaged him because I, I like how his work, like, what kind of stuff that he did. And so we, then I started to work with him from there. So people will take you much more seriously once you are actually in the program or you've got an offer but, you know, be before the interview it's quite difficult and they'll ignore lots of emails. Which fair. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, like you said, a lot of them, a lot of researchers, you know, professors and stuff are really, really busy. So like, often they're not even like reading medical emails like that or, and um medical student, they might not. Yeah, it's worth uh sometimes it's worth getting in contact with AC Fs in the Beary as well. Um And they might put you in contact with the professor or they might supervise you as well or if you're phd students. Yeah, I actually just had one more question that I just thought of now, which is, you know, those academic days that you've had in your fi in your first foundation year and the start of your second foundation year. Did you use those to start planning what projects you were going to be doing in your A FP rotation? Yeah. So I used that um to sort of you know, finish up projects. Um, that I've, that I've started in med school and also sort of laid the groundwork for things to come in the next year. So, doing the ethical approval which, you know, it's going to take lots of time. Um, yeah. Yeah, that sort of thing. Nice. All right. Well, if that's all the questions, I can't tell if someone's still typing or not. Yeah. Give it, give it a minute too. How's, uh, how's finally you going, Miky? Uh Yeah, it's going, um, finishing or getting signed up for cardiology tomorrow. But, um, but yeah, other than that, uh, rolling through, uh, I think that there's gonna be a lot of, uh SFP application this year just because of the, it is true. Randomness now, isn't it? Rather than S JP? Which makes some people, you know, could say, well, I have some sort of control over that. But, yeah. Yeah, definitely. Um, and yeah, it's going, I think it's going to be insane, um, flying this year. But, um, just some insight because like I said, I did, I run the other course as well. Um, and based on the sign ups, most half, half of everyone don't even have publications or presentations or interested in PSFP. And then the vast majority of people will have like one population, one presentation. Then it really tapers down quite quickly. So, like, in my case, I didn't have any real publications that didn't stop me from getting both my offers and so it's always worth just putting in an application. Yeah. Sure. Sure. All right. If any other questions, I'm just gonna end the recording there.