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that done? Is this already dramatically? Okay, cool. I think, um, yeah, that was the only thing. The recording. And yes, we are broadcasting. So hopefully it should just record. And people who are watching this recording back will be able to hopefully listen to us wondering whether this is recording or not. Um, the other thing I could do as a backup, as I called my screen. Mm. I have a screening code. I feel like I have 1 19 step. Doesn't quick time do screening 40? Yeah, it does. Yeah. I can record my screen. Cool. So I do that. Just say that we've got a back up. Okay. Okay. So I can see that. How many you want? So I can see we've got 13 people who have joined. Um, we'll start at seven. PM, so just joined. Want to get a quick cup of tea or something? You've still got time? Yeah. Yeah. And just while we're waiting, I popped a question. The polls, a chatterbox. So it's now seven PM, but it looks like people are still filtering in. We'll give it a minute or so and then we'll start. All right. So it's two minutes past seven. I think we should kick off, I guess. Just to briefly introduce myself. My name is Doctor in Richardson. I'm an F two doctor. Um, I'm on academic foundation program here in, uh, south London Kings. And, uh, clinical Neurosciences, um, presenting her introduce herself. So hi, guys. My name is Alice. I'm one of the new F ones. Um, currently doing the sf in cardiology, respect to or cardio or cardiothoracic based at imperial. Um, so I was in the same position as you guys are This exact time last year. So hopefully this talk will give you a brief intro just before Oriole opens on Wednesday As to what the SFP is, while you guys should consider applying if you aren't already And some tips and tricks from us that we found really useful and just an overview of the application process. So hopefully you can see the slides. Please put, uh, drop messages and chatterbox if you can't. But very briefly, what we're going to come in the next hour is what exactly is the specialist foundation program? Why should I apply to the specialist foundation program? Um, and then a bit about the actual timelines and what that looks like. Um, And then we'll kind of give our experiences, and there's a little tricks around that. And then just also some resources that we thought was that we thought were important or useful. Um, in preparation, down the slide, I move in the first slide. No. Okay, One second. Let me, um, sorry about everyone. So let me just stop doing that first week. Oh, it's working for everyone else. Just not me, okay? It's working for everyone else, right? Apologies. It was working for everyone else. Okay, to do this again. Sorry. Let's say, uh, that's okay. Shut up. Fine. Hopefully, everyone can see that, and hopefully everyone can see me tapping through. So fine. So what is specialized foundation program? Well, it's a two year integrated foundation program. Um, so is essentially effectively for most of your foundation program. Exactly the same as any other foundation program. Um, and what that means is that you have four or five clinical placement jobs, obviously, in a variety of different specialties, uh, two blocks and there's a few other variations, but for the most part, it's either one block or two blocks where medical education or leadership of of some sort. Um, and the way in which you apply is you apply to a specialized unit of application. Really? What that means is you're applying to a dina re or a regional area. So you're not applying specifically to a hospital in the first stage. You're not applying, um, to a university. Either. You're just applying to a region or an area you can apply to a maximum of two, um, year, I guess. But you're only going to apply in one year so you can apply for a maximum of two. What? This I guess, to give a bit of general context about the SNP. I assume most of you, the fact that you're here, have probably a rough idea around where this might fit in around training. But essentially, if you look to the left of the image, you're here at medical school. Myself and Alice are just a little bit further away. On the right is one and two. Um, and this is that first step into kind of academic training. Um, and you have four months of academic training or a little block of training, um, with a predominantly clinical kind of job. Otherwise, um, and then you can see this thing that says N n t e n and that stands for national training number. So what? That's really that little NTN a bit is really saying that there's a There's a bit, which is going to be a competitive kind of interview period. So you're gonna apply, you know, maybe run through training or maybe something like course, surgical training, and then you're going to move. Hopefully, when you're successful into core training or a run through program and academically, that also would mean that you could apply for an academic clinical fellowship. And then as you pass through, you can see that you go for maybe 25% of the time you spend doing academic stuff, and then once you get passed kind of S t four s, t five, you can go up to 50% of your time. Doing academic stuff we're concentrating on today really is just that first foundation, um, program. Something else briefly mentioned is that if you have any questions, what we're going through, feel free to put them in the chat box, and then we'll try and answer them. I think probably it's best to do that at the end, as opposed to just answering them intermittently on the way through. So a good question is, why should I apply to the SFP? So first of all, it's dedicated time to do research. Um, actually, well, she's a medical student is difficult to juggle research around other commitments, studying societies and other things. And actually that only unfortunate becomes more difficult when you when you're working full time and around a rotor that can be quite unforgiving with things like we can cover and nights. So actually having a set block of time when you don't have any other commitments. So I know from my own personal experience my research block, which is coming up from December to April next year. I don't have any clinical commitments at all. I don't have any timetable. I don't have any formalized commitments apart from being able to do research. So that's four months in which I can do research, and I can also put in other things. Um, and I guess that kind of moves on to the second bullet point that actually it's an opportunity to build experience so if you have this four month block where nothing else is rated in, you could maybe go and do a taste a week somewhere. You could try some other things out. You could spend some time in a different department. Or, you know, if your surgically orientated you could spend some time in theaters and doing things that you would struggle to fit in within a normal working day. Otherwise, um, and as a result, you can build your CV and your portfolio, making you more competitive applications and whatever you want to go into A. I think a few people have commented that audio is cutting out a little bit or sounds not great with the mic. Give me one second. Perfect. Sorry, because I'm sharing the screen. I can't actually hear people. Let me try with my headphones. Sorry, everyone. Is that better? Please let me know or let Alice No. Yeah, I think this is better. Better actually. Not too much, not too much. But do you think if you turn off the video that might help? Someone is kind of suggested in the chat. Yeah, I can do that. Actually, let me do that really quickly cool. Just whilst Dan is doing that, I can answer one of the questions. So dexa. Okay, no worries. Perfect. We can answer questions at the end. Okay, fine. Hopefully that works a bit better, and you can hear me better now. Um, so just to go back so very briefly I talked about, but obviously, it's an opportunity for four months, um, dedicated to research. But also, you could use that time to build. You see the building portfolio, um, and gain experiences that would be difficult to arrange within a normal working period of time. And also, um, you just have more flexibility. Other things I think are important to highlight as well, because it's not just four months to kind of build portfolio points and take boxes, but actually, it's an opportunity to learn new skills and and concentrate on developing yourself, um, as potentially academic, someone interested in education or as someone involved in, or wanting or aspiring to be involved in clinical leadership. So critical appraisal, um, statistics, programming, things actually require quite a lot of head space and quite significant periods of time to kind of sit down and think about things. Um, I'm just seeing from Alice that people are still having problems with my audio. Um, let me see if I right. Is that better? Sorry, guys. I don't really know why the audio is so bad. Um, okay, I'm gonna stop sharing for a second, and then I'll re sharing a second. Sorry. Okay, so I've changed a few things. Hopefully, that makes the audio better. Um very sorry that the audio so correctly I'm not entirely sure why it's doing that. It's okay. I think people are just saying it's a bit crackly, but it's not awful. So I think we'll just keep going. We'll keep We'll struggle through it. So I guess other things just briefly talk about so into your experience. Obviously applying for lots of these things that core training, specialist training do require some time in preparation. In fact, in exactly the same way that you guys are here at this talk tonight, preparing for an application to an AFP and applying to call training and run through training is no different and actually having a bit more time and headspace. Um you know, you only stand to benefit. It isn't based on yesterday. T score So if you're already beginning to think about or looking at things like situation and judgment exam and you find that a bit daunting, then actually, knowing that you just have to pass that exam and any mark above a pass mark, which is extremely easy to achieve, is all you need. Um, that's also too, I think takes quite a lot of weight off your shoulders going into the exam. So I guess in in summary, you have nothing to lose. It's a little bit more work and preparation, you know, over and above, preparing for finals and other things. But actually, on the whole, you really stand to benefit. Um, you know, compared to what you may have to invest. So where can you apply to do an SFP? So, as I said, the whole regions, um, and, uh, unfortunately, there's quite a spread of difference in what different regions or different. Uh, these different sceneries want in terms of, um, your application. We'll talk a bit more about that in a minute, but but these are essentially the areas you're looking to apply to, and I would strongly recommend if you haven't already to start looking, um by area What is an offer within those areas And to start having a look at things like jobs and stuff? Because whilst the deadline is not too far away, you will be applying to live somewhere for two years, so that probably takes, you know, you need to spend a bit of time thinking about that. Um, I've probably seen her up later, so I'm just going to massage, um, so just very, very much in general. And then I'm going to hand over to Dallas and she'll talk you through the application. But in general, essentially through Oriole, Um, and you apply to foundation and SF and your specialist foundation or academic foundation through the same application window. Um, you have to add a little bit more evidence and things on top of a standard foundation program application, but you can put your foundation. The other thing that I think is important to highlight is the Foundation Program and Specialist Foundation. Program Function is separate applications, so you can apply to foundation program for one set of jobs and things, and you can apply to a specialist foundation program in a different you know, regional area. That was certainly my experience when I applied. Um, and I think that's also useful to think about. You know, if you want to be successful in Specialist Foundation program, is there a particular set of rotations or jobs that you might want somewhere else? Um, and and thinking about that and having a bit of a backup plan of things, you need to, uh, already be thinking. About what? How are you gonna evidence these things? So things like publications, posters, prizes, additional degrees start holding that evidence. PDFs print out the pictures, put that all in one place now because actually, you don't want to be scrambling around looking for these things. And then there's whitespace questions. We're not really going to go into so much today, but we'll be talking about on Wednesday and then you think about how you're gonna preference your jobs. So I think probably now is a good time to hand over to Alice's. Hopefully, her microphone is better than mine is, and she can talk you through applying cool. Thanks for that, Dan. So I'll talk briefly about Oreo and the application process, so it opens on this Wednesday. You guys should already be able to log into Oriole because you should have gotten log in from your medical school. So on Wednesday, when you log in, you should be able to start a foundation program application. And the important thing to remember is that the SFP and the normal F p all embedded in one application form. So it's not used to separately, um, complete the application. It's one big application that you do. Um, so I just took some screenshots from from Orioles, and these are also in the applicant handbook on the U. K F P o website, and it's super useful. So do look through it throughout and refer to things, um, in that hand because it's really, really useful, and it's very comprehensive. Um, so start off by filling in your kind of personal details where you completed med school, etcetera. And then part two of the application is for the SFP and for people not interested, they can just skip this part. But for you guys, um, then do fill in this section so you need to put down the educational achievements such as those publications, prizes and presentations. And it's also important as well. If you're applying to the genius that require whitespace questions to insert your white space questions here. So for London, um, for London Foundation School, they don't require any white space questions. And so if you're applying only to London, then you can just write an A. But if you're applying to, for example, London and Cambridge, which I personally did. So Cambridge required whitespace questions, so I would fill in the white space questions in that section. So it doesn't matter if London sees my white space questions. They don't use it as part of the application process. But do make sure that if you're applying to a degree that requires whitespace questions and the other doesn't, then you definitely need to put in your white space questions. Um, cool. Next slide, please. So the application timeline is on U K F. P O. Website, and last year I printed this timeline, just stuck it to my wall so that I knew at what stage what needed to be done. Um, these deadlines are very fixed, so you can't be unless you have. I would say you have to stick with these deadlines for sure, and make sure you get in your application. Don't leave it till the last minute. Everyone will tell you this, but Oriole has these, like, random days where it has maintenance and updates. But just make sure everything is saved. Whenever you make any changes to your application. Just hit save at the top because you don't want to be in put in your information in again or the white space questions. You just want to make sure that all there and try and submit it one or two days before the actual deadline just to make sure everything is in place. So seventh to the 20th of September will be when Oriole is open, so you apply for F, P, F, F, P and SFP and then the 14th of October at 12. This is when preference in for the SFP programs on Oriole, um, closes. So after you've submitted your your your application, you would then be able to go into Oreo and see all of the preferences for the jobs. So there'll be individual jobs. For example, I'll be able to you'll be able to see my one that I'm doing the cardiology Respiratory Cardiac 61, and you will just thank them. But At least this is my experience from last year. I was only able to rank rank these preferences after I submitted my application. So you have kind of a one month window to, um, look at the Excel spreadsheet and rank your jobs according to what interests you the most, and and then make sure you get in all your preferences and Oriole by 14th, um, sfp interviews. So just because we're both in the London Foundation School, a lot of this talk will be quite a specific located towards those applying to London. Um, so but generally, sfp interviews are between November and December just because of the fact that, um, 11th of January next year 2023 is sfp national off today. So interviews are pretty much, um, October end of October to December time. And it's quite nice doing sfp, I think, because I mean, there are many things that are nice about it, But being a final year med student and knowing kind of two months in advance where you'll be for the two years of your life is quite nice. You just get to know before all of your friends who did foundation program just makes you feel that bit more special. Um, but is unsuccessful. Then if unsuccessful for SFP, you will automatically be joins back onto the normal foundation program. And, um, everyone will find out where the allocated to on ninth of March next year. But yeah, from this slide, just keep all of those dates in your head and in your diary, your calendars and make sure you stick to those deadlines very, very closely. Cool. So some London specifics last year when we when I applied and when then applied before acts So London and K E S s. But this year, um, it's slightly changed where it's just London foundation school. And so if you're applying to Wessex and kss, that is a different generation or different. S u o a. Entirely, um So for them for this, um, I would just look at if you're applying to the London Foundation School, So that's north London. Then I would recommend going on their website. So if you just type in kind of London Foundation school sfp um their website is really good, and this applicant guide is super useful as well. Um, it has all of the shortest in criteria where the points are allocated. But we'll go through it in this talk as well, because it's it's basically the same as what I went through last year. Um, so the timeline is that on by the 17th of October, um, they will email you with your short listing outcome. So email you telling you what your points score were as a result of the short list? And a few days later you will be invited to book an interview. Um, and we can talk a little bit about booking interviews for London because because it can be a bit stressful sometimes, Um, and then interviews this year will be will continue to be on M s. Teams virtually run over four days in November and as the same for any other January in London in the UK Sorry. The SFP national offer date is next year. January 11th call next slide. Okay, so for London Foundation school, um, generally, there were no white space questions. So if just applying to London Foundation school in the white space question boxes, you can just put any, um so there were kind of 43 steps to get in a job offer. So short list in phase one. Um, And if you pass the short list score for that, You then progress on to shortlist. Phase two. Once you've got to do once you've received an interview, um, you actually have a one in two chance of getting an offer. So I read this in the handbook, um, this year and also last year. And it just gives you that motivation that once you've got to interview, you have a really good job of getting in. Like getting into get an interview in itself is a massive achievements. So I kind of just thought of it as you only need to kind of be better than one person. I don't know. It's a weird way of thinking and thinking of it, But once you've got an interview, then you have a really good chance of getting in one and two chance. So make sure you smash the interview, and then you can get the job offer next year, hopefully in January, so we'll break down the short list in on the next few slides. Okay, So in phase one, um, they're concentrating on your publications and presentations, so maximum of 10 points here, and you need to pass what they call their threshold school. So on the website, it's actually not published. Um, and we don't. And from last year, I don't know either what the threshold score were at all. Um, but you just have to score enough according to kind of the average of what students in that cohort, um, scored. So for publications, um, you must have a problem. And I d, um, you don't have to be a first author. You can You need to be a named author. But if your collaborator, then that doesn't count as a publication. So I think a lot of people ask do letters to the editor count. And this year on in their handbook, they've actually made it really clear that if you publish a letter to the editor and and on pubmed, it has the name of the journal in in the top left hand corner. Then that does count as a publication. So that's the bottom that's saying the inflammatory signal in stem and progenitor cell. So because there's a name of a journal, um, in which the letter was published, then that is okay. However, and that does counterpoints. However, if your letters to the editor has kind of this is index as a comment, then that doesn't count for points. So, uh, personally, I would if you don't have enough publications, um, that all that all index with the actual journal name, then I would just put everything even if it does a comment. But just be aware that the ones that are index the article your publications that index as comment most likely won't get counted because they made it very clear on their website. And this is taken directly from the handbook as well. Um, so, yeah, I think that usually answers all the questions about letters to editor. Um, with regard to the presentation's, you need to be a named author. Um, and it must be presented that national level again. National international level again, whatever you presented or whatever you've published, I would say, Put it all on there, leave it to the discretion of the assessors to see if you get the points or not. Um, but just be aware that you you might not get the points because of these These details. Um, but yeah. Just try your best and put as much as you can on there because you have absolutely nothing to lose at all. Great. So that's short list in phase one. Um, once you're past that stage, you then need to pass the second short list in phase, which looks at the number of prizes you have and also further degrees. So I know that for your year. Um, your e p m. Is actually based from 41 to maximum 50 points. So for the regular FP program, um, kind of having a B S C or an M S c doesn't really count as much as it did for my year, for example. But when applying to SFP, having an extra degree clearly does help you to gain more points. So again, with the prize is only first prize counts. So if runner up or second prize or merits, then they don't count, Um, and then for further degrees. As you can see on the table here, um, it only scores points if you've got a first class honors, Um, if you've got distinction to one or a merit. So, um, again, put in your achievements. But just be aware that these are the criteria, and it's very clear from the website what they do and don't count. Great to say. Once you've passed short list in phase to, um if we can move on to the next slide, Great. So then we have the interviews, which again this year will be conducted on M s teams over four days. Um, in November. Personally, I don't personally, it doesn't really matter. I think, Um, what days you choose your interview on? I'm a kind of person who likes to get things out of the way. So I just chose the earliest lot at the earliest time. Um, just because I hate waiting around all day, but again, this is personal preference. And depending on where you are in your, um, interview prep stage, um, you have a range of options to choose from. Um, so when you're invited to interview you, they'll send you an email saying, Oh, this is they'll send you a link in an email inviting you to book your interview and just feel glad that I think last year they said there was open interviews at a certain time, but it was actually many, many hours after they said um, the interview, Uh, the interviews opened. Booking slots opened, so just be aware that you might have to. Hopefully, they've changed things because of feedback that we've given. But you might have to wait for a few hours just constantly refreshing your screen to book your interview. But hopefully, they'll they'll have sorted that out this year. Just very briefly. Um, the interview is quite a smooth process. Online. You'll confirm your identity and just register in a large room, Um, with with one of the U. K F. P with one of the London Foundation School, um, people. And then they'll give you 15 minutes to read your academic abstract and the clinical scenario. So for me, they had both of these on one screen. So you just had time to read through these, make any notes that you wanted on a blank piece of paper. Um, and then they would take away the academic abstracts and clinical scenario from the screen. And then you would move into your interviews, interview rooms so they allocate exactly 10 minutes for the academic component and 10 minutes for the clinical scenarios. Um, it goes by really quickly, but we will definitely talk in more detail about the interviews, how to prepare for them, how to structure your answers as well in our 3rd and 4th webinars. So these would be a little bit later. So after you, you guys have submitted your applications to Oriole. So we're running those sessions on 10th and 11th of October. So do make sure to sign up to those as well. We'll have links, um, in our on our website and on our Facebook group as well. Next slide, please. Great. So just, um, I just wanted to put this up. So again, this is from the London Foundation Score Handbook, just showing that you can score a lot of points. Um, from your extracurricular activities, publications and prizes and the reason why I've kind of highlighted the deaths are scoring. I've just draw a circle around. It is just that people often worry about not having a high enough diesel to be an sfp candidate. But as you can see, um, interview accounts for a lot. And actually, the short list in school also, uh, accounts for a lot. So don't let your desk they'll put you off, because again, with Covic and exams. A lot of people's diesels are, um are not what you expected or kind of very let down by your vessels. So I would say that the interview is what counts the most. And also the short list is very important. So no matter your diesel or, um, if you think you want to apply and you're passionate about sfp, then definitely go for it. I don't let anything put you down or discourage you from applying. Great. My hand back to Dan. We actually both apply to London and Cambridge. So I have back to you first. Yeah, so I think just to talk a bit about my experience is, in fact, things that Alice has said very much more in my experience is when I applied to London, there were no white space questions and they haven't been. And it was It was virtual. I think the one thing that I would raise, um, and we'll talk more about the interviews, um, in, uh, in future sessions. But but actually, the thing I would highlight is the very variable nature of the interview. So I, um, when I had mine, I had a 2.5 hour wait between essentially registering and having my interview. Some other people seem to go straight through. Um and so actually thinking about what that might feel like. And, um, even now, perhaps beginning to think about how you might want to prepare for your interviews and also thinking about even very simple things, like, you know, when the interviews are, Where are you gonna maybe even do your interview? Would you rather be at home? Would you rather be somewhere else? Would you? Are you going to be on placement somewhere and thinking about things like even silly things like WiFi and stuff? It's worth thinking about that sooner rather than later, so that if you if you are successful, you do get into your for your not panicking about that much close to the time, Um, as it says so in London. Uh, it was a two person panel, um, one person at a critical appraisal. So that kind of academic bit and the other person lead the clinical station, um, compared to Cambridge, which also interviewed at, um, whitespace questions. We'll talk about a different time, but again it was. I found Cambridge would be much smoother it was 30 minutes, one academic and the academic was not a random person. That was specifically the person I would do my academic research with and then, uh, and then someone else. And there was a layperson there as well. Um, just to kind of watch things. I don't think there's much else I would really add in terms of at this stage in terms of my experiences as anything else you wanted to talk about in terms of London or Cambridge differences? Yeah, sure, to be honest, very similar again. The interview slots already talked about how how we went about booking them again. The waiting room time for me was variable. I mean, I had friends who went straight in to the interview as soon as they finish their reading time. I, on the other hand, waited a good 1 1.5 hours and then somehow got kicked out of the court soon as I joined my interview. And it was it was a lot of stress at the time, but looking back on it, it's fine. It doesn't matter either way. They just look at how you perform, Um, so don't worry. And if the more time you have preparing and it makes you worry, just slowly think things through and just follow the structure that you've been practicing with and it will be fine again. It's very follows, a very the same structure for pretty much everyone in London. The to person panel, 10 minutes each, and they're quite strict with timing as well. Again, I I found the Cambridge interview also, um, kind of easier just because it felt like it reminds me of a lot of medical interviews and just having this conversation about your own research. So know about that quite well. Be able to defend your own research or explain your own research, and if they ask about that, Um, but, yeah, we can talk about this more when we come to prep him for interview as well. So I guess things to do now. We've already touched on some of these things, but kind of bring home the point. I think especially important research the areas you're going to apply to. Obviously, the really exciting different bit is the academic block. But actually, for most people, that's only 1/6 time of two year period, and actually you know, actually much, much like applying to the university, the city that you're going to live in. The other things you're going to do that are not necessarily related to the academic block. The other clinical, um, rotations. All of those things, I would say matter probably more than the academic block in itself, because that's that's what you're going to be spending the majority of your time doing. Um, and one of the really easy ways of finding about those things is speak to current specialized foundation program. Doctors speak. There's there's lots of people they're quite easy to get hold of. So you know a quick search through somewhere like Twitter. Or if you identify, I don't know, like a rough area like let's say you like I think I want to go and do my Specialist foundation program in Edinburgh. If you email someone at one of the Edinboro universities, they will put you in touch with trainees and and people be able to answer your questions, try and pin people down for a coffee, just try and meet people and get a bit of an understanding about what you're applying to and and you you get a flavor for different aspects of specialized foundation programs that you perhaps didn't even think about. Like what? What is the teaching like an F one? Is there any teaching? And in the F one year and and what funding is an offer to do research or, you know, it says medical education. But is that simulation? Is it something different? And also, it's a really easy way of getting kind of inside tips, interview, practice, finding out, sort of. Maybe if they got your questions and stuff like that that came up, you know, I certainly am Alice's. And most, I think, most specialist foundation doctor's happy to talk about applying and things they learned when they were applying. As I said earlier, make sure to gather all of the paperwork. You know, you don't want to be stressed out last minute over something silly, like trying to find a PdF of a certificate you got from, you know, winning a grand round or something two years ago. Just make sure it's all in one folder now before or really opens. Um, and if you haven't started drafting whitespace questions and you think that you're probably going to apply to somewhere that needs whitespace questions. So anywhere outside of London, you need to start writing them. Probably I'd even say tonight or tomorrow, and then you need to start getting other people to read them. And the way that I would go about drafting whitespace questions. We'll talk about more on Wednesday, but I would at least have a look at what the questions are, if you can, or have a look at what the last year's questions. Well, because that would give you a rough approximation of the sort of things you might be asked and then start writing them and you're gonna work from get the most junior person you make to start looking at them and then also perhaps even think about contacting some consultants and people to say, You know, when my draft is ready in a week or so, would you be happy to have a look through them and stuff? So line up some people who are going to look through them, and you can think about doing that. Now you don't have to wait until memorial starts. Is there anything else you want to add? Um, no. I think you covered everything Yeah, just make sure you have everything or your publications, posters, prizes with you. Um, your white space questions will take you longer than you expect. Um, so, yeah, just start early. I said 15 redraft. But in the end, I think I did 24 redraft. So it was a lot, but like, you know, you get one shot. And actually, as I said, getting through the short listing and getting to interview is like, I feel like 80% of the effort when you're sitting and you and you certainly interview you've done all the preparation, the actual interviewed, it's the easy, but that will fly by, is doing all of the preparation and getting everything right now is the thing that will get you the job offer. So really, briefly, just some of the resources that we've used. So, you know, what you would also experience in the next few weeks is that there will be sort of, uh, not even rumors, but people ask questions and then things with snowball. And before you know, you're like asking. I don't know what the answer to that question is, and we'll tell you about about how we're going to try and address that in a minute. But actually the kind of the Gospel the really important information will be in the UK Foundation Program 2023 Applicant Handbook. So if you're not, I went through that. I would make sure you have a skim through that. At least it's pretty exhaustive and it's not too long. Um, if you're looking to apply to specific foundation schools, Ordinaries have a look. They probably already have the jobs and things out there. If not, they have last year's, and those are normally rounded up to date because things don't change too much. I used the I SC Medical book. I don't know whether they listed, but I use this and it's like 20 quid. But actually, it's a worthwhile investment because you're going to have this interview and then you're gonna have more interviews later in your medical career, and you just need to buy one book. So just buy these people. Oliver Picard and his friends are not giving us any money, but I think it's a worthwhile book and worth just getting now, because it will help you in the future. Obviously, we're going to give a number of talks. So we've covered the introduction today. We're going to talk through whitespace questions on Wednesday, and then we're going to talk specifically about the clinical station academic station. Um, it won't just be myself and Alice, there'll be a couple of other academic foundation doctors will be helping out give those talks as well. And then finally, all of the information you need to possibly know for the clinical stations will be in either the Oxford have a clinical medicine, the emergency section or the foundation program book, which, if you don't have already, um, I think you can sign up to one of the medical defense unions and they'll send you a copy for free. Um, but that's quite a good reference. Book covers everything you need to know to prepare anyway, and it's pretty good book for your foundation program life. So I recommend checking that out. And then finally, how to read a paper by Tricia Renal. Um is probably one of the most accessible books that beginning to think about how to critically appraise papers and do it in a structured way in a in a way that allows you to then quite eloquently talk about what you think about the paper as well, because it's one thing reading a paper thinking that's quite good. That's a bit rubbish. But actually being able to talk as a monologue by yourself for 5 to 10 minutes about something is actually quite difficult to do within a structure, and that looks quite a good way of getting into doing that. So these are the resources. So that's recent stuff. What are we going to do? So we last year we ran a similar set of talks, um, myself and Jack Barton, and then we also managed to do some mock interview. So we we interviewed. We managed to, I think, set up mock interview for about 100 or so people, actually a bit closer to 200 people this year. We're going to try and not only offer mock interviews, but we also want to offer a little bit more than that and kind of give a bit more mentorship structure. So that would be advice giving you guys feedback on your white space questions as well as like interviews. We have recruited a number of mentors and people to support us doing that and, um and those people are very kindly happy to volunteer their time. The thing I would say is also that we're going to set this up and match make people. But also, please do be proactive. Lots of these people are, you know, quite busy there, juggling lots of things. The other thing we need to do, unfortunately, to keep numbers down and make it manageable. Is that really only people applying to this cycle? We can offer marks, too. If you've come to this talk and you're not in your final year and you're not applying this cycle, um, you know, I guess I congratulate you on your preparedness, but please don't apply for this scheme. Will probably rerun this, maybe even in a more enhanced version next year. So just hold off for now. Um, and again simply, just because of the numbers, it will be first come, first serve. We will send out the link to sign up. Um, but please do get on it and sign up. If we don't manage to pay you up with a mentor, we will run some group interview practices as a bit of a catchall for people who are you know around closer to the interviews, and that will be sort of like a format that will maybe talk a bit more about how we do that in one of the future Webinars, and we'll release some more information. So we're going to try and support You guys were going to try and support whitespace question writing, which is difficult to do. But we want to help people doing that. And we'll also make sure we can cover people with mark interviews as well. Yeah, and then the other test. Yeah, so absolutely. And we're going to aim to get these mentor minty, um, pairings as soon as possible because your ears open soon And we know that you want to get your white space questions red and drafted and redraft with your mentors. So actually, on the next slide will be the sign up link. Okay, so it has come first serve. I've also posted the link in the chat, So if you guys want to click on the link and sign up, it's a Google form. Um, as Dan said, we'll pay you up. We can't make any guarantees that will pay you up with a mentor. who's in the diary that you want to apply to? Because obviously it's It's impossible to do that for everybody, but we'll try our best to make sure that, um but to be honest, sfp AFP is very similar. The application process, um, and the ins and outs or or kind of looking at your research education leadership. So it's all very similar. We've all been through a very similar process as well. So I'm sure any mentor, any of the mentors we have would be able to give you guys lots of support along the way. Um, so we will be in contact at the latest at the end of this week with your parents. Um, and it will be an email with your your details and your mentor details so that you guys can start talking email or or what's that or whatever you choose to use. And you can send drafts and closer to the time when you get interviews, you can always mock interview mock interviews between yourselves. Um, as always, any questions email us at sfp at mind the bleep dot com and we would be very happy to help if you have any problems contacting mentors, etcetera, something just to add on the any questions front and just addressing the sort of wild rumors that sometimes seem to ripple through when people are stressed, especially in times like this, and applying to things like the SFP. Um, we haven't quite formalized exactly how we're going to do it, but we're going to build some sort of frequently ask questions repository, Um, or at least linked to. So if you do have questions, what we may do is we may, if we think they're relevant to lots of people, is, well, obviously keeping you anonymously, compile them and try and give some clear answers to those questions. Because often the question you may have is something that lots of other people are thinking as well. And instead of just replying individually to each email, we may try and do something where we, um, you know, make a more generalized things. So it's a it's a point of reference just briefly to come to the end. So this Wednesday at seven PM to eight PM again, um, we can post that link into the chat as well, and you can click on it and register if you haven't already, but essentially will be going through the white space questions. If you're just going to apply to London and you're not gonna apply to anywhere else, don't come to That would be a waste of your time. But if you're thinking, yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm going to apply to London, But I just want to think about maybe going to fly somewhere else. I'd recommend coming along. And if you're applying anywhere else out to London, I think this is probably essential to come to, um and we'll talk you through whitespace questions. How to prepare for them how to write them. What are you trying to demonstrate when you give when you're writing whitespace questions? Um, and and some tips and tricks about preparing for that as well. So hopefully that's been really useful. I'm going to stop showing my screen now. Uh, I'm going to turn my web cam back on. Cool. Thanks for sharing that down. I think we finished perfect for 10 minutes of questions, and there's been plenty of questions in the chat so we can work through these. Um Okay. So first question do you rank all the jobs in a given Diener E for Sfp. So I can answer that so you don't have to rank all of the jobs. I think only rank around 30. I ranked around 30 for London and then for Cambridge. I think in Cambridge they only have a total of 24 so it's pretty easy to rank them. I rank them based on location from my house. Um, so it's just you don't have to write all of the jobs this year for London foundations, for there are 100 jobs. So as many as you would like. But obviously, um, if you don't get your first choice or your second choice or third choice, for example because their highest scoring applicants, then the fewer jobs you rank than the less likely you'll get sfp if that makes sense. Essentially, um, But no, you do not do not have to take all of them. Yeah, just to kind of add to that. So for London, I only ranked. I think 10 of the Cambridge are ranked for um, and I think part of the thing to be thinking about when you're ranking jobs is would you want Do you want any academic foundation job? Or do you want some specific ones? Because, actually, if you'll be happy with any job, frank, whatever you want. But just be aware that if you apply for if you apply for only four jobs and you don't get them the first time around, then you might be put on the waiting list for one of those four jobs. If you apply for 10 jobs and you apply for six jobs you don't want but you want really want four of the jobs. If you get offered a job you don't want and then you decline it, that's that. That's you out. You're not going to be offered another job there. So the thing I would strongly highlight is that if only rank the jobs you really would want, because if you get offered one first time around and you would decline that job, you won't be put in the running for one of the other ones, which, if you just apply for the jobs you really want, you might not be giving it first time around. But if other people, except different jobs, then you might be offered a job you really wanted off of the waiting list. So that's something I hadn't really thought about until much closer to actually applying. And, um, I wish I had known that a bit sooner. Um, so just going through some of the more questions. So, is this session recorded? Yes, it's been recorded. Is the audio really bad for everyone else? Apologies for that. Um, is there a decimal cut off to apply for London? I think we've kind of addressed that. Not really. At least they don't public it off as such. Yeah, in previous years there was. So when I applied know the year before I applied this three years ago, there was a hard vessel cut off of first or second vessel. And then the year I applied, there wasn't a diesel cut off that they announced, but there must have been one somewhere. They just didn't really make it public how they were making the decision. And as Alice said, there is probably some somewhere, but the point, the actual point that it counts was your final. Um, you know, overall score is actually much, much smaller than you might expect it to be, Um and then just scrolling through the next question I can see is what evidence is needed in terms of oral presentation and poster presentations. So I think the columns an oriole usually say something like Author, date, conference, title of the poster or presentation that was given, Um, I remember there was a drop down there saying, kind of like you presented, um, this post and you could choose myself or somebody else. Um, and quite a few of the posters that I, um, that I had my name on. I didn't actually present my supervisor from IBSC presented them. These are international conference is. So obviously I didn't present at them. But in the end, they did count for points. So I think just put as much as you can on on the form. Um, yeah. Just try and fill in as many boxes as you can. I completely agree. I would put all of the ones So all of the things you like first author or first presenter for put those for, like, you know, slop. 123, and four. And as you go down through and you run out of things, then just put put anything. I mean, obviously don't be you, uh, don't don't you know, over extend the truth Don't lie on the application. Don't do anything like that because that's a surefire way of just, you know, getting been down the application process. But if your name went on something and you presented a good example is they said they'd only accept, like, national level. Prize is what I gave a talk. A student grand round on like some guy with you. See? And what the chest X ray demonstrated given 1st 1st prize at like a student ground round. We're only two other people gave a talk and they accepted that. And they took that as a prize. So yeah, it was the first place. Was it a national one Know Did I put it like, very far down my ranking All the different prices? Yes, but they don't count it. So if you are in a undecided as to whether include something or not, I would just include it. No one really is going to be able to fill all of those spaces with first author chips and stuff like that. And another thing I just remembered as well. So when you mentioned, like, obviously no one would dare lie. Um, but I did actually save kind of a pdf of all of the post and presentations that had my name on them. So from my B S c, I just asked my supervisor, Can you send me all of the things that they've been presented and eat a copy in case, you know, someone decides to ask you, but they trust what you put on the application. Um, and then the other thing to say is not. It's not publications, but not presentations publications. If you submitted something and it's been accepted for publication, but it's not yet been published, that counts, too. So I had a paper that had been accepted but hadn't yet. I didn't have a published I D. But I had a letter from the journal from the editor of the Journal to say it's been accepted for publication, and I and I put that as some evidence so that that's another thing you can do. Um, Whitespace questions Deadline is the 20th of September. Yes, so that's when the, uh, real close it. That's correct when you need to submit it by so effectively. Like two weeks from now, um can use a different set of white specks. Questions? Yeah. Um, for my yeah, for my experience. Know, last year it was one box. Um, so I personally, I remember just being one box, and so if you're applying to to whitespace questions, and then you would have to, like, make it relatively general. But actually, I think you should double check with you k f p o. And when Oreo opens you up, you'll be able to see very clearly. But I would say double check on this unless you have anything to say. Dan, we I think we'll talk about this more on Wednesday. But when I applied, so at one point, I wasn't going to apply to London and Cambridge. I was going to apply to Cambridge and Scotland, and the white space questions for Cambridge and Scotland were wildly different that, like you, couldn't give a generic response. They were about two very different things. But I remember there being separate. I had a whole set of white space questions to Scotland and a whole set of questions to Cambridge, and they were distinct and separate. But Oriole has changed since the year I applied, and I I suspect it may have changed slightly against is Allison supplied. So the best thing? I mean, I echo what else has said. I think Wait till you apply. When you apply, you'll see what it looks like if you got any questions, Contact UK Foundation program. Um, and if there's you know, lots of people are send us the same question. Will also try and do some digging and give a bit of an answer out about that. That, yeah, I would assume it will be generic questions. I think that's when they stop to like National Lordship. Yeah, When do you rank jobs? Oh, I think you covered that in the talk. Yeah, so you're ranked jobs. After you've submitted your own application, you'll see a column on your oral page where you can rank jobs. And what's the difference between the 20th of September deadline and the 14th of October deadline? So 20 chips, except of September, you need to submit your foundation program and SFP and FFP, or whichever one you're applying to. So those need to be submitted, and then you have until 14th of October to preference your jobs. So which job you're ranking first based on what hospital? There at location rotations, the SFP program. So there are two different deadlines. And, um, deadline of 14. That's only ranking jobs you have already selected. You can't add or remove any. Yeah, so I guess, as we just said, so when you're so between now and the 20th of September, you're just picking areas You want to work in effectively. You're picking, like a geographical area, and then within those areas, you're going to rank jobs. Um, and you have between the 20th and the, you know, between the end of September, beginning of October to rank the specific jobs you want, um, and then and and those are the two differences you're going to apply to a region first and then rank the jobs second, um, so it's very clear. Yes. Yeah, I was going to read this one. So it's very clear when you list SFP job preferences and normal F p job list. It's absolutely couldn't be clearer because your normal f p right now on the oral application you're only applying to the region's in London such as like northwest London, such as London, um, East Anglia, Scotland, Wales. Um, I can't remember them all. So in a real application for normal F P right now, when he opens on Wednesday, you're only choosing these geographical locations, UK. Whereas when you're preference in jobs for SFP where your deadline is October the 14th, you're choosing specific programs that you're ranking, so it is very clear. So you mentioned putting together evidence. Is there anywhere we need to upload this pre interview? Uh, yes, it will. I think when you log into Oreo, it should hopefully become clear where you upload these things. But I remember having to upload PDFs. Is that the thing you did ask? My instinct is to say no, I didn't I don't remember uploading. But again, things can change easily if they upload some certificates. Remember how to do that? And I also had to put DDOS from out of publications. But again, it's clear, you know, there's only one year difference between are both applying and it's clear there's a bit of a difference between both of our experiences. So I think you just need to wait for your able to open and then see what see what excitement and magic is in store for you. Absolutely So how many points do you realistically need to get to London? That's such a hard question. I mean, I honestly can't remember they don't actually published the exact cutoff for short list one short list to They never published these things. At least they didn't for me last year. It's just, you know, trying your best. Maximize the number of points that you can get on the application. Um, And when you get to interview just trying your very best to give a good interview shot, Um, but I wouldn't worry Kind of thinking, Oh, if I don't have enough points, then maybe I won't bother applying. Still go for it? I think. Yeah, I think so. I think probably. And perhaps maybe I'm Maybe I'm being unfair by saying that. But I think probably if you if you got to this point and you've got no prices, know publications your bottom diesel and you don't have any of the things you're going to and you've never presented anything. I think it would be fair to say it's going to be really against the odds that you'll get an offer, right? But I think as long as you've got a few things, and you can take some of those boxes. Absolutely. You should just you should do it if you don't ask. And you don't put your hat in the ring. You won't. You won't. You're not in a chance you're going to get. You're not in the running. You're not going to get a job offer. So, as Alice, I think you just apply with what you've got. I think to be thinking about applying is, you know, testament how much work you've done through med school anyway. And the things you've achieved, So, yeah, why not apply? The other thing or caveat to say, is that London is probably the most popular of all of the, uh, of all of the academic foundation schools. So if you really want to do one, but you think I want to apply to London, but I need to kind of back up then. Lots of lots of the foundation schools publish how many people apply. I think it's if you do enough Googling, you can probably find out roughly what areas seem to be more or less competitive. I mean, none of you know that's sort of relying on room is a bit more, but I think you can also ask current foundation program doctors. You know, when you applied, what did you have? Um, we don't have to talk about today, but I'd be quite happy to say what I had when I applied. Um, in one of the future sessions that that's no problem at all to give if that's helpful to kind of give some range setting. Um, And if you think, yeah, I really want really want an academic foundation program. I don't care where I live. I just want one. Then apply somewhere that's more reliant on whitespace questions. The white space questions seem to have a real impact on on the short listing. So if you don't have lots of prizes and things, then applying to somewhere where you can play to your strength, um, and then go that way, that's I think, the only advice I can give exactly. So Toby asked. When you apply for the SFP, can you apply to multiple specific SFP programs across multiple different sceneries, or can you only apply to those within one specific scenery? So you're applying to do two Dina res to S. U O h s. And then you can choose as many programs. You can drink as many preferences as you want within that January. Yeah, I understand the question, right? I think so. If you're sat here the other side of the screen thinking what? Why is it all needlessly complicated? You're absolutely correct. It's needlessly complicated and confusing. Um, but yeah, you can apply to. I think the best way of thinking about it is you're going to apply to two different geographical areas. So if you apply to go and work in London and you apply to go and work in Scotland, then you can only apply for the jobs that are available in London or Scotland. You can't say I've applied for London and Scotland, but I really want this job inborn worth. It doesn't work like that. So you're going to apply to work in an area first, and then you can rank and apply for any of the jobs in that area alone, and you can pick two areas. That's probably the easiest way of describing it. Um, so, Alice, what is the average score for short listing? I think we've kind of talked about that, Um I don't know. I can't put a number on it just because I think it's very difficult and it varies from year to year as well. Um, and also, we don't We don't We know a bit more than you guys, but these processes aren't particularly transparent. Quite a peek. We we think, or I say, I think we I suspect that your applications are marked by May potentially a clinician or maybe an academic. I don't I don't know who marks them, but also, we don't know whether the like, prizes and publications. We don't really know whether they're marked just like a one or a zero. It might be. They might give out a 00.5. You know, in some deliveries, we've only applied to the same to other places. Might do it slightly different, I think. Concentrate less than what you think. Other people have got to concentrate more on what you have and just apply. Absolutely, um, to publish abstracts count. I'm actually not sure about this. I think they do. Um I mean, I would just I would put it in there Anyway, I'm pretty sure they do. I mean, the dream, if any of you have done this already is that you present a poster, a national conference, and then the national Conference goes and like this put out in, like, the British journal of Surgery or something. And then you have one publication and one poster for doing one bit of work. Um, I would just include it. And if it counts, it counts. And if it doesn't count doesn't count. Exactly. We answered this one. So do you need to be the first author on posters? Um, I was not first author on posters that I put on, but I did score points for them, so definitely put them on. Yeah, definitely. Um, the scholarships for research count. I'm not sure about scholarships. I think they probably accounts for prizes. I think it depends what the scholarship is so like if it was Royal College of Surgeons, but I don't know John Smith prize for doing some research somewhere. I would absolutely put that as a prize. Definitely. If it's like some niche thing that is a bit confusing what it is, I would still put it. I would just put it a bit lower down, I think. Just include it. Um next question of the specific requirements or form at the evidence needs to be in for presentations. So when you you can put your information on tutorial there have set boxes for, like, a day present. State of presentation, title presentation. What was the name of the meeting or the conference? So you just follow that structure and you type in your your presentation. How much time to prep for critical appraisal and clinical station? I didn't hear. I don't think it's okay. I don't think we talked about it, but, um, so I So I practice really with one other person? Um, Jack will be giving one of the talks a bit later. And we practiced probably from about now. Two hours a night, twice a week. That's probably too much. I mean, we both practice like crazy, and we both got offers, but I'm not. We probably went over kill a bit, but that's what I did. What did you do with this? Um, I was about the same. So I started practicing the interviews. Um, after I submitted my oral application, I mean, I started doing a little bit of reading and then attending talks. Um, just having a listen to Contact Network with current SFP trainees. Um, but I started properly, like preparing for critical appraisal and clinical scenario. I would say around Yeah, now, beginning of September when you submit your applications because you you need to follow certain structure in London interviews. Structure is very, um they have a very like fixed structure. So I think it's something you can definitely prepare for, and you can prepare for it very well. Yeah, I think the probably the most useful thing you could do right now is find someone at your med school or a couple of people. But probably actually, no. I would actually just find one person or find three other people, make a group of four and then commit to evenings or some time in the day and hold each other to account and then just start practicing because, um, that's the only way that you will. And we'll talk about interview prep in a little while in a few weeks' time. But the only way you'll get good at these style interviews is by you did someone interviewing you. You're talking through it and then you know, fairly critically being like Well, you didn't mention this. You didn't do that. Why did you say this? That was wrong. Because if you if you put it off and put it off or you just don't practice enough, it shows. And having run quite a few more interviews now, I think I've probably done probably about 20 or so marking to use different people. You can tell who are the people who have prepared, and you can tell who the people are, who are winging it from, like 25 seconds in, Um, and it's boring, But it's relatively easy thing to prepare for because you know, probably what's going to come up. You just have to practice it a lot. And a lot of, um, where where do we get to? Um, and so does the publication needs to be original research? Or can it be reviewed? So absolutely it can be reviews. So as long as it's published again and index as an article and that is that is all good to score points. Definitely. Um, for London interviews, do they want you to talk or they interrupt you and ask questions? We're getting ahead of ourselves. We'll come back and talk about more interview stuff at the interviews, Um, on the interview. Webinars. I think that's fair to say. Yeah, agreed. Does Cambridge have a diesel cut off? Uh, I don't I don't think so. So for me, um, I did a lot of digging. Last year's tonight. Cambridge is short, lasting and what they do, I found their process even worsen. Transparency compared to London, like London actually releases a lot of information. And the hand is packed with information as well as Cambridge. It was all very vague. I mean, I just tried to get some super white space questions written and just hope for the best. And I think I also had to sign a non disclosure form for the Cambridge interview. I think I can't really remember, but it's It's quite, uh, there's less people applying to the Cambridge one. There's less jobs to start off with. The interview less people. Um, and the whole thing seems a lot more. Um, you know, the people who are interviewing you have read your white space questions. It's a lot more intense, and then it's a lot less standardized. Um, which is really good in some ways. Um and and but as an applicant makes, it makes it harder. I think, um and I think probably both of us would be guessing if we try to give more information than that. Um, in London. Did they ask you a personal questions, too? For me? No, they just jumped straight into critical appraisal. And then my 10 minutes are up, and then clinical statement went past, and then I was out of the interview room before I knew it. So no, I didn't get any personal questions. I got asked. Why do you want to do? Why do you think research is important or something similar to that? So what I would say is as well as thinking about prepping clinical questions and academic questions, you should also start, especially if you're thinking replying somewhere outside of London. Start thinking about how can you sensibly and smoothly answer questions like, What's the most interesting bit of research you've ever done? Or tell me about yourself? Or what have you applied to here and stuff? Um, because those actually are quite difficult questions. You could answer them terribly, but like give a succinct, fresh sounding interesting answer that makes you stand out. It's very difficult to do in, like, 45 seconds. Um, so why not just perhaps them anyway? And if someone throws you a bit of a curve ball, any of the interviews, then you've already prepared for it. Um, so for Cambridge, I can't find how the short list in scoring system. Uh, yeah, there is. There is. They don't talk about it. They just It's it's opaque. Other white space questions standardized across the sceneries. Yes, this year, at least last year they were, and I had a look on this year's U K F P O website, and, um, as far as I could see, yeah, they're standardized across the scenery to answer the same set of questions. Um, yeah. Do they ask for evidence for each prize by the 20th of September? Or do you just need to have them ready for if they request it? I think we both experienced slightly different things. We sort of talked about this. I would just get it ready, and then, if there's an area to upload it on on tutorial, just upload it. And if there isn't, then make sure you've got it in the folder on your computer. And you you have it too. And, um, do you mind talking about how many prizes and publications you've got? Um, I mean, I did. So we'll do that later. Do you want to? We can talk about that. I don't mind. I'll let you have any preference. No, I don't mind either. So, um, I was very lucky. I always say, I'm very lucky that I got an S f t. Um because during my B s c um, myself and my supervisor mainly, my supervisor, um, did actually get we got quite a lot of output from it. So I managed to somehow max out my publications conferences like all of those points. Um, so that's why I say I'm pretty lucky. I got sfp, um, to make it through the short list in, um, yeah, And you I'm just I just tried to log into Oreo to see if I could find my old like my I deleted. It's completely reset. I don't, uh I tried to the other day as well, but I think they just like it's all gone. So I think I had something like three. I think I have three publications, Uh, five or six presentations and five or six prizes. Something like that. But like a lot of the some of the publications were like clearly slightly duplicated Publications like I presented something in one place and I, in a slightly bigger conference, presented a very similar thing. So it's not like I had, you know, amazing application. I knew I knew someone who applied with 37 separate publications to to an AFP. Um, and I also know someone who didn't have any publications and also got a job. So I probably sat. I don't know where I sat in a range of people, but I had a few things. Um but I think don't don't. I think, you know, don't don't consider these things as barriers. I think you should just apply. Definitely. So when will the scheme be set up? So the mentorships gone live. You guys can sign up Well, Wednesdays talk be recorded. Yes. We'll try and record that. Um, Lucy asks how to set on a career in an official clinical academic post. You have to be taken seriously as an application. Is it acceptable to want to be a clinician who also publishes. Yeah, definitely. So, um, if I think about people who supervises me for for research stuff, both, um, So, uh, to give some background. So I've done some neurosurgical research. I've done some neurology research. Um, most of the clinicians have supervised me for research Are full time clinicians. They're not academic neurosurgeons as their job isn't like 50 50. Um, and they're not academic. Uh, they're not academic urologists either. Um so no. So you could in theory, just do like the AFP. And then after that, you can say Yeah, thanks so much. I enjoyed that. But I just want to go off and do normal training. The other thing that's also really important to mention is that, um not everyone who does the AFP goes off and becomes a professor. Lots of people do the AFP decide. Yeah, thanks so much. I enjoyed that, but research isn't for me. Um and I'm just going to go back to normal training. And then on the flip side, there are lots of people who didn't get AFP and now go off and have really, like, you know, illustrious research careers. All of the professors you've ever met in medicine didn't do an AFP because it didn't exist. So you know there's opportunities for research much further down your career. Um, apply? Absolutely. But if you're not successful, don't don't be disheartened. It's not the end of your research career at all. Yeah, yeah, so not really. Not really anything to add. Just if you get it, then that's testament to your hard work. But if not, you can definitely still do research during your medical career. There's plenty of opportunity. Plenty of time as well, either. Low dose Sorry p m. But Max out on the publications awards and oral presentations. Nice? Uh, well denies have a cut off or is that not yet determined? I think we've talked about this. It's I think it's helpful for us to, but we're guessing we don't know 100% either. You can always email. The other thing we're not saying is you can always email the scenery, explain your situation and say I'd love to apply, But it would be really useful to know whether you know this is my background. This is what I've got and they may come back and say, like, Yeah, well, they may turn around and say, like, No, um, they probably won't say that, but why not ask? Um, it offers for London come out before Cambridge. Um, so I got my interview. I got my invitation to interview for London before a lot earlier compared to Cambridge. But then when Cambridge off me interview, they just give you a date. You don't need to go through this process of booking, uh, interview date, and then you will get your offers. Same day, 11th of January next year. It's a good day. Um, do you know if asset presentations count? Yes, I do. Um, maybe yeah. Can you share how many points you had? I think we've done that. E posters, a virtual conference, posters camp. They certainly do. Or did when I applied. Do posters for student lead conferences. Countless points. Um, we haven't really talked about that. I don't know. With Allis. Don't answer this. Yeah, I actually did have, um, student loan to conferences, and I put them on my application. Um, as far as I can recall, they actually didn't count. Yeah, even though they had a word like national drug, but it doesn't count. Unfortunately, the problem is is that, uh is that probably as many of you who are watching this? Uh, I suspect many of you are in society as yourselves. You go like, hey, look, someone tuned in from, like, hold today as well to the online conference. So technically, it's a national conference like the most of the student conferences. They won't give any points, for it needs to be attached to a professional body. So asset they'll give you because that's a professional body that looks at surgical trainees, things like all the royal college conferences, anything that's like attached to a professional association. So anything that, like a consultant is a member of will count anything. Maybe some of the trainees specific ones will count. But if it's pretty, it's medical students, then it probably won't count. But I also put them on. I don't think they counted, but you're not hurting yourself by not filling the boxes. You know why not? Why not just put them down anyway? Um, how much time in the London interview do you get to look over the abstract and make notes? So in the earlier slide, it said 15 minutes on on their handbook for this year, so you have 15 minutes on your screen. One side critical appraisal. The other side clinical scenario. Read over. Make notes that you need on your blank sheet of paper and then just be aware that when you go into the interview, those will not be on your screen anymore. You'll be seeing the interviewers, so make sure you've taken down the notes that you need. And when we get to interview prep, we will talk through or I don't know whether they listed. But I created, like a pro forma on a piece of paper that I write down from memory and we'll show you how to do that or what? You know what? At least we did, and ways of structuring how to make the notes because once it disappears, if you don't have the information that's gone, um, on the interviews and other sceneries similar to the London ones, I mean, we can only really talk about our experience of Cambridge. I reached out to lots of people at different sceneries to see if people wanted to contribute. Unfortunately, didn't get a huge amount of kind of feedback back, but if, um, but if we can get some information about more specifics about different sceneries. I'd love to give that to people because, actually, um, me and Alex applied to the same place. So, uh, we can only help you if you apply to these places as well. Yeah, I think we've talked about personal questions as well. And can you apply for foundation for F F P? Is that just normal foundation program? No, no, I think it's like a priority foundation priority program. It's like a different third thing. Yes, you can. Yeah, I think you can if you if you I know someone who applied to academic and also to like a priority program based on location and they were able to do that. Um, I think that's I think that's everything I've just sent a feedback from around would be great if you guys could complete it. Obviously, it's just useful for us to be able to evidence for our own portfolios that we've been involved in teaching and stuff. Yeah, I hope that's helpful. I think we'll probably draw the session too close. Yeah, make sure to join our Facebook page and, um, email us with any questions. Sfp um either bleek dot com and hopefully we'll see you guys on Wednesday. Um, so, yeah, enjoy the next few days. Get started on the White States. Questions, if you haven't already. Good luck. Good luck. I'll see you Wednesday by