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As we welcome to the stage, three amazing leaders of international organizations. Um So I'd love you to give a welcome to Michael. He is the presidente of AMSA, the American Medical Student Association. I mean, the president's of Isma, the International Federation of Medical Student Associations and Lara, the co chair of the B M A Medical Students Association. Um Welcome, it's so great to have you all here. Um As always, it would be great to start with a round of introductions. Um Lara, if you're able to turn your camera and mic on and the same with a main, that would be great if you could join us onstage alongside Michael. Uh Super, I can see now and Lara, if you're able to get your camera and mic on, that would be great. Um Michael, um I'd love to start with you. Um If you could share a little bit about you and your organization and perhaps where you're joining us from today, I'd be happy to. Well, first of all, thank you all so much for having me. Um My name is Doctor Michael Walls. I'm the presidente of the American Medical Student Association as Victoria mentioned. Um I'm currently living in Connecticut in the United States, which is about an hour from New York City. Um And AMSA is primarily a domestic medical student organization, although we do have our fair share of international members, primarily us international medical graduate uh students um as well as our premed students. So we obviously have to do um college before going to medical school. Um We've been around for about 70 years doing a lot of work. Um supporting medical students were uh primarily an advocacy organization. We actually broke off from uh the American Medical Association about 60 years ago. Um And so we're really dedicated to um improving health care in the United States for our patient's for um improving working conditions for trainees and physicians. Um And I'm really excited to, to talk to this panel. Love it, Frankie. And I mean, I'd love you to share the same just um here you are a little bit about your organization and where you're joining us from today. Thank you so much Victoria for the invitation. Uh So my name is, I mean, I am a finally a medical student uh joining from Algeria. I'm also about to start a master's in public health in one month. Uh And I currently am serving as the president's of the International Federation of Medical students' Associations. Uh The I F S A. Uh We are a global organization that works on equipping medical students worldwide with the skills and the knowledge and the capacity's two uh be able to participate in leadership, leadership roles on a global level, as well as to be able to create uh an impact on local and national levels through many standing committee account, public health, human rights. And he's srh our medical education research as well. A little bit of everything. We also have, we work through five regions. Uh And, and we are currently based in more than 130 national member organizations from more than 130 countries, which has been very, very uh enjoyable to see we as a, just a small fun fact. I just came back from our General assembly that happened in Turkey in the past week and we uh and we have admitted new members as well uh in this general assembly, which is always is, which always makes me proud as the organization. So as well, we're very lead to improving healthcare on a local and global level. We work through external affairs and advocacy to capacity building through organism, organizing multiple activities and projects. Uh And I'm very excited to share more about our organization in this talk. So, thank you so much. Thank you and Lara over to um same question just a little bit about you and your organization and where you're joining us from today. Uh Good afternoon everyone. I'm um Lara. You can call me Oma Lara, but I go by Lara and I am a medical student entering my family at Cardiff University. I'm the co chair of the British Medical Associations Medical Student Committee, um which works as an arm of the trade union and professional body to support medical students with um issues regarding welfare, education. Um and not being regards to and finance, finance, financial support. Um I've just finished my integrated degree at Cardiff depopulation medicine. Um And um yeah, so we, the Medical Students Committee have representatives across the 40 for medical schools in the UK. Um And we joined together and we meet four times a year so to discuss um main policy um areas, we have different work streams such as welfare and finance, education, widening participation. Um And also look at how we can support international issues and also our international students who decide to study in the UK. Awesome Lanky. Um It's a real honor to have you all here and I appreciate you checking in from across the world and we only have 30 minutes. We have a lot to get three. Um So I think we'll get started and kick off with some questions and maybe start on the more practical side of things. So as we've just heard, you'll hold leadership positions in vague international organizations. Um What are your top tips for running a committee or being a leader of an organization? Um Michael, maybe start with you. Yeah. So I think in terms of, you know, sort of working your way through an organization. The biggest thing that um I've noticed that I think I did and that I noticed in people who are also working their way up through AMSA is um being passionate and following through which I realize is not a very high bar. And I actually don't think it is. Um I think as long as you can say, like I'm very passionate. So like, we do a lot of work right now, we've been doing a lot of work around reproductive health. Um which I'm sure many of, you know, is uh been a recent issue in the United States. Um And so we've been doing a lot of work around that and the people in our organization who and in the United States in general who have been making the biggest difference are the ones who um are just taking the time to do the work. And I think it's really as simple as that. It's just, um you know, you don't need to be the smartest person in the room every time. Um Although it helps, you don't need to be um crazy good at business or public speaking. Like, there's always a way to get involved with um leadership, whether it's behind the scenes, if you're not a good public speaker. Um but you're really good at organizing and keeping track of logistics. You have no idea how often that becomes the problem of some advocacy event or, or programming that we're working on. Um, and so I think really just as long as you say, like, hey, I can do this. Um, and I'll have it done by this day. Like, it's really as simple as that. Um, and I don't think, well, yeah, I think that's, that's the crux of it is really following through. And then on the flip side of that is like setting your own boundaries is, you know, if you can, if you commit to something and you know, you're not gonna be able to follow through, not only are you hurting yourself, you're hurting the organization. Um So also setting that boundary of like, oh, I have a big test coming up that I don't think I'll be able to commit to this, but like, I'll be able to help after the state. So I think being really upfront uh and following through is, is incredibly important. Yeah, love that. Thank you. And I mean, do you have anything to add to that from your personal experience of your kind of top tips for running a committee or leading an organization? Um Thank you so much. First of all, I'd like to echo the words that Michael just mentioned. I fully agree with what he just said. And I think uh speaking as well of passionate devotion, I think it's a very important component because people may be a lot of, for example, we've seen this in our members uh when you hold leadership positions, people assume that for example, were not medical students anymore or we're not, let's say we don't all of these commitments. Uh So I think it's very important to have that passion with in order to still be committed regardless of uh med exams or any other commitments. And one other thing that I personally have learned and that helped me through uh almost finishing my term as presidente, which is learn how to trust my board and my I and the people that work with me because when you are in a position, didn't, it's kind of like everything is under responsibility but not directly. Uh So it has been quite a learning journey for me because I was not necessarily, let's say the most trusting person in the beginning of my term. And I had to just let my people their mistakes, I learn on their own grow. And I think that that's a very important component to empower other members to take leadership roles, which is the essence of our organization. Uh So, yeah, it's say that we one other tip maybe to run. Yeah, super. Thank you. And I'm sure in your leadership journey and you've also been part of different organizations in society. If you've watched others in nuclear ship rolls, you maybe had some kind of handover in the position that you're in. Um Lara, I'd like to maybe as speaking to your experience and find out to you. Um What you think makes a good leader. Um Thank you for the question. And it's one a really, really good question because I think what makes a good leader is, can be really, really broad and sort of can be developed depending on the type of person that you are and everybody has sort of their own leadership skills and just develop on, on what Michael and Hamid was saying earlier about being accountable is really, really important and making sure that you're accountable for your actions and what you say you're going to do. And then also in aspiring that within the people that around you that are working. Um What makes it a leader is someone who's able to bring out the best of the people in their team. So as Mohammed said earlier, you're not necessarily going to be necessarily a smart person in the room or the person who knows most about a particular subject, but your role as a leader is to inspire that person, order for them and give them the resources in order for them to do the role or share the expertise as best as possible. Um I would say, what else makes you really good leaders having vision um and being very strategic and sometimes being quite savvy and prioritizing what your aim is going to be. Because when you have sort of a large organization, medical students have a necessary a lot of issues, things that they want to focus on, but your you only really have sort of a year to make as much impact as possible. So you have two priorities will prioritize with the key areas that we can make, where you can make the most impact on how that could be measurable and then communicate that with your team and bring them along with you um with the strategic vision that you set out at the start. And then lastly, I would say patient's um Mohammed said it earlier, you have to bear with people as they're sort of having their learning curve and sort of developing within their own leadership skills um as well. So I would say patient's and patient with the people around you. Um and also for progress as well because a lot of these issues don't get resolved in a year, it takes a lot of time. So just being aware that you need to be patient and make as much impact as possible. But yeah, so I'd say tips for, for being a really good leader is having vision prioritizing sort of key working areas um and bringing the best out of the people around you. Awesome. Thank you and Michael, do you have anything to add to that Lara kind of covered and a lot of great things there? But do you have anything else that you'd like to and say on that question? Yeah. No, I think, I think the malaria talked on a lot of important things. I think patience is, is really key, especially when coupled with what I mean was saying about delegating and letting people work through mistakes. Um I don't know if everyone's seen it, but there's been uh I've seen this meme or an image of the difference between a boss and a leader with the boss, sort of sitting at the table facing everyone as they're pulling on the whatever the rocker stone or whatever it is. Whereas the leaders at the front inspiring people to do that while also doing the work themselves. So I think um that's a huge part of being a good leader is not just, you know, assigning tasks and telling people what to do, but really helping to guide them and lead by example. Um So if you're planning an event, sort of taking the lead and saying like, hey, I'm gonna work on this part, I think strategy is, is really, really important, especially from, you know, from our level as like the presidente of our organizations. Like we can't necessarily be on the ground doing all of it, but we can really help guide the strategy and then sort of um for people who are new or who are still learning, like trying to help their hand or hold their hand and guide them through some of the processes. Um And I think also for being a good leader, um it's important to listen um to what people in your, I mean, your constituents or your members are saying what other folks in your national leadership are saying um and hearing their concerns and thinking through everything instead of uh you know, talking to respond as opposed to talking just to talk. Um I think it's really important and one thing, um I think a lot of people struggle with is, you know, we get an idea in our head and we want to make sure that our voices heard, um which there is a time in a place for that, but especially in a leadership role, you often get that opportunity a lot more than everyone else. So when you're not the one talking, really listening and thinking through, you know, why is this person bringing this concern or why, where did they come up with this idea and sort of thinking through? And it's not always going to be the best idea. Um That's not to say you can't say no, but really thinking through like where they're coming from, I think is what, what makes a good leader. Yeah. Um And you've kind of all touched on this already and people management, the importance of it. It's been a really hot topic today and we've discussed it in all of our panels as it's such a crucial part of being a good leader. Um I mean, I'd like to ask you, um how do you manage your team and how do you inspire others to take Axion? Um Thank you so much for the question. Uh from my personal side, I personally would like to know my team. Remember during the very first meet of our team, we had like this little game when we each had to find out what our leadership style is. And mine was the people's person, which was not surprising because I knew that that that's where I was heading. But I think my biggest, let's say strength as a present, which is that I really tried to get to know my team and two um not just know them, but also try to always, let's say, um work with them as people and not necessarily as coworker as vice president's or as head of the department and so on and so forth. I think that that's very important, especially in a volunteer based organizations such as ours because we still have to, I think one of our biggest struggles again is to find is we're trying to find that balance between accountability slash volunteerism because we have organization, an organization that is very big with a very large workload on its leadership. And I think it's important to uh for me, at least to know my people in order to be able to provide them with a safe space for the and to contribute and to be able to of course, fully reach their potential while also trying to protect their well being and health, especially mental health as it really gets very hectic at times. Um and also very good that let's say creating uh schedule slash sheet slash all of that. So that's been also something that I have been using to my side for this entire term. And I think that that's something that my team appreciates a lot for me. Um And how do I inspire them to take Axion? Uh I believe by just knowing them. Um And knowing when they are available, knowing what the topics that inspire them the most. I think I've been able to, or at least I've been trying to bring out the best of them as a lot. I was mentioning, I think that that's very important within, within a team leader. I think it's also very important as well to, for us to pick our battles as leaders of the of organization. And I think that was a very hard lesson, lesson for me to learn in a sense of like sometimes we want to do things and we think that that's the best way forward and maybe our team doesn't necessarily agree with. And I have learned to know when are the moments where I have to try to push for this? Because I fully believe that this is the greatest way forward and when I just have to make a compromise with my team for them to feel heard and listened and appreciated. Uh And I'm not saying that this is something that I have been applying for the past 10 months, but again, it's been a very big learning journey and uh and yeah, I hope that this, these steps will help the future leaderships in the rolls. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. And Lara, do you have anything else to add on that question? Um I think Mohammed um covered most of it. Um Sorry, I mean, as well, sorry if I said the wrong called you on the road game, but you covered a lot of key points. Um I think one thing that I like to communicate to my team is the power of the bottom up approach. So a lot of our work is on the ground at the grassroots, the representatives are in medical schools making sure that, that um the messages and what we're doing, our committees are channeled forward because that's sort of the strength of the trade unions in the membership. Essentially, we can only do that. People continue to be members of the um British Medical Association and also actively engaged with the work that we're doing. So really inspiring the fact that the power class through actions and inspiring them to realize that they can be leaders themselves on the ground. They can run events, they can also reach out to uh to stakeholders. Um And they can also inspire to talk to their own leadership within their own medical schools to enact change. Um And they will have the backing of a much larger organization that the BMA to support them. If need be so providing that level of inspiration is really important. And then I think you again, you've got a really important point with a glass of like managing conflicts and disagreements within a team because it will happen. There'll be times when people want to go into a different, different strategic visions and I think it's important to take a step back. There'll be, there may be times where as it, either way, you just have to sort of, I don't necessarily say put your foot down, but provide that strategic vision and there'll be times where you may want up for more democratic approach um and be quite pragmatic with what needs to be done. Um So you're not, not too much to add um of what the answer that was on that was given previously. Oh, thank you. I suppose if we zoom out a little bit, um It's a tough time to re leader, there's lots of pressures internally externally. There's a lot of wider global issues um such as, you know, the conflict in Ukraine, the health service is under pressure, the cost of living crisis. Um It's only to name a few. Um I suppose maybe a question for you, Michael. Um in your opinion, what is one of the main challenges facing your generation? And how do you, for come it big question. Yeah, that's, that's not an easy question. Um I mean, so I will say for, I think the United States tends to just because of our size, not venture out from the U, the U S a whole lot. Um, at least in the last, uh, four months that I've had that, I've been Presidente Graham said the biggest thing of course, has been the attack on reproductive health, I think, you know, I don't know that, that, that's the biggest issue facing our generation. It's certainly going to be a huge issue, especially in the United States um of seeing this push away from health, away from evidence based medicine. Um I know this has been a global issue um that I think is, is hitting the United States uh especially more recently. Um And so I think as future healthcare providers, I think that's going to be one of the biggest challenges we face is um sort of uh being able to continue to provide evidence based medicine and um including abortions and transgender health and um in uh fertilization and, and things like that. Um in terms of our generation as a whole, I think um that's a much more difficult question to answer. Um But I think, yeah, really making sure that we're talking to people and expanding our communication. You know, I think um we've never been so connected through technology compared to any other generation. Um But it almost seems like because of that huge access to communication, we're also creating a separate silo that prevents us from going outside of those silos. So we're staying within our Facebook groups and Twitter threads and, you know, group text. And so I think that's great and there's a place for it, but being able to look outside of that to say like, hey, there's this other group that disagrees with me, um seems to be much more difficult for people to do now because of technology. Uh And I definitely think it's something we can overcome, this is not to blame technology or, or the people for how it's used. Um But I do think we have to make a conscious effort to be able to, to talk to people who disagree with us um and be able to hear their side and express our side of the story. Yeah, absolutely and appreciate it. It was a huge question to ask you. Um I mean, do you have anything else to add on that? Is there a challenge facing your generation? Um How do you propose that we could overcome it? Um Thank you so much for, for the, for this question. I agree that it's, it had a difficult one. I love that Michael has brought up the access formation because that was also a that I was thinking about. But maybe from a different perspective, I think one of the biggest issues, at least at we're facing in our organ of that huge, huge access to information. We have a very high tris uh in a sense of like the number of issues that we are to cover from organization is just has become, it's becoming more and more unrealistic and from a pack and from and from an organization that is driven by pash in and that is driven by the will to do good, the will to help these communities. I think it's been a very, very big challenge and one of the biggest uh let's say lessons or things that we have done in order to accommodate later, this is again to pick and prioritize our battles and the topics that we would like to cover what is relevant to organizations. Um And from this, I believe that it's very important for organizations to work together. Uh And there is of course a space for everyone in a sense of like there is something that we cannot cover as I F S A, we would always try to see who is working on, this was working on that and so on and so forth. And I think one of also one of the biggest challenges they're facing this organization that in youth. Uh And maybe you've heard this a lot already is tokenism. Um It has been a very, yeah, it has been a very interesting one because for example, we as one of the biggest and oldest youth organization is in the world, we have tried throughout the years to establish our name as one of the most important health stakeholders uh in the world. And we still are faced with a lot of tokenism, uh tokenism, we have been invited to many organizations just to have that, let's say, speaker youth perspective when it's not necessarily valued in the decision making process. And that is something that we have been keen on addressing the MSA getting more evidence based advocacy because I believe with uh concrete, let's say, proof of the thing that we are doing or the impact that we are making, that's how we are. We have been trying to and even been able to establish our position in the decision making process because it doesn't make sense to just invite someone and to hear their perspective and to give them the platform to express themselves. And when it comes to the actual process of involving them, there's no one from our generation, let's say so I believe that that's a very uh big challenge that we've been facing and hopefully we'll see less of it in coming years. Thank you. Um One thing we haven't really touched on is um you all have in credible platforms as leaders of these amazing organizations. Um big followings on social media. I'm sure you get invited to a lot of speaking events. So you really do have the opportunity to use the platform in a powerful way. This was a question for you, Lara is how do you use the platform that you have? Um forget. Um again, a really, really good question. I think the platforms that we have with the BMA is we hold a medical student conference. First of all, that's a conference where students from different medical schools come, they can present emotion which is submitted and discussed by a agenda committee and then it's debated by representatives again by each medical school. And that is our sort democratic way of deciding what our priorities are going to be um for the coming year. So um it's really interesting motions. We've had motions on mental health, emotions on climate change, motions on L G B T Q A plus um being included in the medical curriculum, decolonize the curriculum. Um And it's really a platform for grassroots Axion again, for students to take issues that they've been experiencing on the ground and then present them on a much more national platform and that sort of live stream when shared and then the motions that are passed from that medical student conference then go on to be discussed by the much wider association at the annual Representative meeting. So selective, some motions are selected um and the motions, all the motions that are passed are then worked on by our, by the committee for the following year. So our conference is really an opportunity for students to share their opinion, share whether their passions, things that they've been working on the medical already on a much more national national platform. And our conference also works as a way of students networking with one another. Um and also a way for them to sort of share ideas as well as become um the activists on the ground. So that's one of the ways that, you know, the BMA support medical students becoming leaders and, and that platform, it's also social media again, um which I'm sure other speakers and the planners can speak a lot more about the other social media and Twitter and Instagram and also a newsletter that goes out and we share positive stories um with medical students, the work of medical students and of our committee. And we also share um sort of help, help lines and well being services which are provided free by the trade union as well. So hopefully that answers your questions and I'm sure the plan is we'll have more to add. Yeah, absolutely. Thank you. Um Same question for you, Michael. Um Who do you use the platform that you have for good? Yeah. So I, I really like what Laura was saying. Um We also have a very similar dynamic where we have um It's like a 200 page document of everything that AMSA stands for that was voted on by all of our members. Um And so we use that to sort of guide what we've done. And I think, um you know, histories uh important, especially for context of some of the things like AMSA has done is um we have a National Health Service Corps which is focused on public health and preventative medicine that we um helped found. And then a bunch of our alumni who are, you know, now fulfill physicians, um have gone on to be directors for. Um, we've done a lot of work with capping the number of uh work hours that residents can work. Um changing. We have a match system which is a very odd system in my opinion, um for how people get into residency that we helped change to favor medical students. Um And now we're working on a bunch of things. Um So we do have a lot of our grassroots movements. We um are working on setting up like protests and setting people to talk to their representatives about reproductive health and um uh universal healthcare since that's not a thing in the United States. Um And so we do build that build our argues our, our voice in that way to sort of build people up from the ground. But then we also have like we're working on a medical education scorecard which people on this panel might actually be, be familiar with our farm free conflict of interest scorecard from about 5 to 10 years ago. Um We're doing something very similar where we're going through in grading medical schools on um how well their student wellness is and how will they cover a lot of issues that Laura had talked about like L G B T Q I A uh in the curriculum um Preventative Medicine Public health, racism and medicine. Um And so we're, we're doing it both, I think from uh more policy, medical education perspective, but also working on the grassroots movement, which I think um gets medical students excited. And I think that's another thing with this generation that at least I've noticed compared to the people, even like 10, 15 years older than most medical students, um is where we tend to notice different or notice problems and are more likely to do something about them. Not that anyone did before. But I think the um concern for something like a negative consequence is a little bit gone out the window for a lot of people. Um And so I think that's, that's how we've been using our platform. Awesome Blankie. And I suppose a second follow up question, you've kind of touched it a little bit Michael. Um But how important is it to speak out on these issues, um that matter and all that kind of topical and cultural things you've mentioned? Um And what are the consequences for your career? Are they positive? Are they negative? Um Michael, actually, you've kind of touched on it already. So, are you happy to lead the conversation on that question? Yeah. No, I, I'd be happy to, I think, um and part of the reason I've gotten into AMSA and advocacy is because I think it's vital, especially for physicians um to recognize problems, you know, um were seen naturally um as leaders because not necessarily because of all of our education but because of the career we've chosen, um, we're really, we've dedicated our lives to helping other people and, you know, not everyone in medicine is, is like that. But I think because of that our voices is very well respected in society. And so I think, um, by not speaking out we're actually doing a disservice to our patient's into society. Whereas we can see, you know, the, er, physician who notices, uh, infectious disease breakout and works to, to, um, with the local public health department or something like that. So, I think, um, it's really, it's, it's, I can't even stress how important it is for physicians and medical students to get involved with this work early. Um, I think the negative consequences, like I said, are not disappearing. Um, I've certainly heard, especially I'm gonna keep talking about abortion access, but that's one thing I've heard a lot from, um, people applying into obstetrics and gynecology that they're concerned about even just talking about wanting to perform abortions while applying to residency for fear of, um, especially now that it's illegal and more or less half of states. Um, so there are some negative consequences. I do think you need to be, uh, diplomatically about how you approach these things, um, to, you know, think things through like what you're trying to do, what you're trying to accomplish. Um, I think, you know, personally, I think the benefits far, far outweigh the cons, obviously there are things to be considerate of. But I mean, for me personally, I'm to be quite honest, I was an average student. I mean, I was good in undergrad and when I got to medical school, I've been more or less average. I, like I said, I'm not the smartest, I'm sorry, serious talking to me. Um uh I've never been the smartest one in the room, but I'm very passionate about what the work that I'm doing about talking to people. Like, I mean, it said about working with people and getting to know them. Um I care about my patient's and I think, you know, by being present, the organization that coupled with um being in medicine amplifies my voice and when I'm looking into jobs and applying to residency, um which I'll be doing this year, I think it, it helps because it shows people, you know, that I'm dedicated to this work and that I'm going to continue to be doing it. Um And leaderships get like, you know, all of medicine can be taught quite easily. Um Leadership is much more difficult to teach. Um But invaluable, especially for physicians, um working in a team environment, often seen as the leaders on that team. Um And so I think by showing that and by getting involved, you know, you're not only helping yourself, but you're also, you know, hopefully moving the needle on, on making your patient's lives better. Thank you so much. Um Again, a really difficult question. So um I appreciate you answering that. So, honestly, um sadly, we are running out of time. So our last question of the day, um I just love to ask you to share one piece of advice for aspiring leaders or for delegates today. You were thinking that they would love to be in the position that you're in um be a leader of um an international organization. So um Lara and maybe start with you for this one. Oh, wow. Um There's a lot of things that Michael said, I wanted to come back on, but because of time, our focus is just on this question, I guess. Well, I will say what Michael said, essentially medical students. You're in a unique position where you understand some of the political, social nature of how the world works and also unique position where you are going to become sort of leaders within healthcare service. So you're, you're already a future leader, medical student. So I would say is find out the issues that you're passionate about how you can be an activist and then leadership will come naturally in regard to that. You'll find organizations, charities that do so many things that you're passionate about and there'll be opportunities you expensive leadership roles within them. I would say, um you know, starts more as well um and build up from there as well. Work between people that you use the resources around you as well. Um I would say, um underst bring, find out what, yeah, find a way is you're passionate about um and going forward and I think something that I would tell younger me, um when I was like, in leadership positions, don't worry about impostor syndrome. Okay. You know, everyone feels like they're not meant to be there. They, you know, they don't have the skill set. Everybody feels like the exact same way. Um Just, just have the confidence that you're here for a reason that you've been chosen for a reason that you're any special, for a reason that you have the skills you're able to communicate and ideas. And even if it's just one thing that you say in a meeting or with alongside stakeholders, um that one thing that you said can have an impact. So like I said, you know, start small, do something that you're passionate about and also with the gotta um imposter syndrome, realize you're not the impressive feeling like that the other people as well. And I'm sure you'll find other role models and speak to people in leadership positions as well, be from mental you and bring and bring you upwards. Thank you so much, so much gold duster in what you just said. Um I mean, do you have anything to add to that? Um One piece of advice for aspiring leaders? Um Thank you so much. My, my advice would be maybe a bit more idealistic is to be daring. Um I personally have had a very interesting, let's say, journey in the FMS, say I have joined the FMS a six years ago through uh my local representative, let's say in my city. And I remember in the very first session they vote. They, they said as an introduction, there has never been any Algerian in any international team, any given international team in the I F S A. And then six years later, a year later later, I became the president's of this organization. Um And I think that the thing that I have noticed the most within my organization uh on a national level is that they are not there and enough, they always have this fear of like if I apply for this opportunity, I might not be accepted. If I applied for this workshop, I will not get it. I don't know enough and so on and so forth. And I think that, that the thing that have set me a part of that I was, I did differently that I applied, even if I did not necessarily have enough knowledge or even if I did not necessarily have someone that showed me how to write this application or to do this training and so on. Um And if, and I always had in mind that if someone was able to make it to this position, then I, why can I not do it as well? Uh as Michael said in the beginning, we keep circling back to that. You don't always have to be the smartest in the room. You don't, you don't always have to be the one that has the more knowledge. I think it's all about fashion. It's all about uh trusting your instincts and trusting uh your vision because that's always worth something and no one's dreams are uh too big and I'll leave it at that. Thank you and Michael, same question for you and one piece of advice for aspiring leaders. Yeah. Well, unfortunately, or maybe fortunately mine is very, almost exactly the same as what, both large and I mean, said, um, I liked a means way of phrasing it, be daring. I've always said just do it because I've caught myself saying that, you know, when I was thinking about like, oh, should I run for my local chapter presidente? And I was like, no, just, just do it. And I'm always like tearing and then I notice myself say like, no, just go for it. There's no reason you can't, it doesn't matter that you're the smartest you care about the work that you're doing. Um And so I love that we all have sort of that same theme of, uh you know, don't, don't cap yourself to uh because of fear of what might happen or I'm not good enough. Um The, you know, it's a cliche and funny as it sounds like no one knows what they're doing. We're all just figuring out as we go. Even like Presidente Biden is really just trying to figure it out as he goes. Um, we're all just, you know, I think that's the biggest lesson of I've learned in adulthood is like, nobody really knows what they're doing. They might act like it. Um, but really, like, just because you think, oh, I'm not qualified. I don't know enough. Doesn't necessarily mean you shouldn't apply because everyone else applying is also feeling the same. And so uh Lori talked about impostor syndrome, like ignore the imposter syndrome, just go for it. Um And yeah, so that's, that was, that was mine was really the same as just just go for it. If you see an opportunity that you're interested in. Don't, don't hesitate. I love it. Thank you. Um Sadly, we have run out of time, we could talk all day with this final and such like gold dust and these conversations. Um But just a big thank you so much for being here for taking time to join this event and, and for all the work e and your organization day um on an ongoing basis, we really appreciate it. And, and if you'd like to find out more about these organizations, you can check out our sponsors area and we have some info in there if some links and ways to get involved. And so please do check that light at the end of the event and you can find all of our lovely speakers on Twitter as well. Give them a follow, get involved in the conversation and keep up to date with what they and their organizations are doing. And so Lara Michael, um I mean, thank you so much for being here and for sharing all your wisdom. We really appreciate it. Thank you for having me. Thank you and thank you for the Lupron is as well. I've done a lot too. Thank you so much for the platform. Uh It's been an honor. Thank you so much. Uh Not at all. Our pleasure. Thank you.