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Um as a way of introduction, we are trying to go into a more um so like ICAL um session where we talk about what we did in our portfolio and uh in our portfolios, different portfolios. And um we would also open the, at the floor. Um We make the um we make, I'll give opportunities for questions to be asked so we can um you know, we just make things more clean and share, share what, what we all um So went through so with us today, we have um doctor A, he's in Northwest. Um We would also have joining us surely I doctor Iwe is um in it's ST three in um all University Hospital Trust. Um We, we, we organize to this program that we so we can get like sort of like a spectrum of experiences. We know that the um the portfolios are different for those years. Um But we believe um each person here brings different perspectives um to um the application to radiology. We have someone who applied from um trust grade um rule and beauty's portfolio from a, a trust grade rule. That's Dr Abajo. We have someone who was in training, um IMT training and before he applied into um his into, into radiology training and um we have myself will applied um from outside the NHS even though I was working in the UK. So we hope um this gives um a, a variety of, um, of um opinions and um experiences that people can uh gain from. So, um, Doctor Atiba, is there anything you want to say before we start? Uh No, hi guys. Um Hope we are all good. All right, thank you. So, um just a quick overview of what we discussed last week. So we said um the uh the application process spans about six to several months um from the call for um So um call for in a call for people to apply for MS R A exams to get in an offer in and um it majorly factors three things into the uh into concentration into the ranking. That's um one MS R A uh to your portfolio and three your performance in the interview. Um The MS R A takes about 40% of the mark um interview, 30% portfolio, 30% and the MS R A and how well you perform on it is the, is the determinant of um who gets to um be invited into an interview or not. We've um we sort of went a bit deeper into it the last time we've been talking about our approaching to um MS R A but today we'll be more focusing more on um building a good portfolio and um we discussing um the different opportunities we all used. So I think it will be helpful um if we all um get it, if we hold um get a copy of the um portfolio assessment um from, so you can go through it with um with us. Does everyone have this? Uh it's, it's something I can send uh just send me in the chart. Do we, do we have um access to the portfolio um um assessment for 2023? So we can go along with those. Um Doctor uh Emmanuel, please. Could you help us with um maybe post the link to it? Um Doctor N Dani, sorry. Uh Emmanuel, please. Could you help us with the link to uh in the chat box so people can follow. I'll just send it to you just a minute. Ok. No good in the restaurant yet. Um ok. All right. I send it to. All right. Anyway, uh let's just go ahead. Um So for the first do men, um First Domain is a commitment to speciality. And what that involves is um showing that you've had, you've, you bringing proof um that you have had an interest in radiology. Um The format it was taking, it took um this last year was I in the form of um three a weeks or I repeated exposure to radiology to show that you've had the maximum um exposure or you've had a good level of exposure um for my own um from my own um perspective, I was not working in the NHS. And while I was in the UK, when I sort of decided to um go apply for radiology and uh uh the way I approach to it was I, I went to the radiology department in the hospital I worked in which was like a private hospital. They had um the last with um the um NHS departments, uh NHS Trust for um cases they can manage there and they were able to um connect me to um the major um hospital. I sent repeated meals. And eventually I was able to get through to someone who um organized a test a week for me. Um The second one, what, what I did was I applied to two places. At the same time, I also discussed with a friend of mine who works in, in different hospitals to kindly help me discuss with our radiology department and see if um I could um if they could organize a, it is a week for me and she was able to speak to a very helpful consultant was um who communicated with me. And um I, I went through sort of like a vetting process. I had to submit some um all the safeguarding courses prove that I've done all those courses just to show that. Ok, I can have access to even observing patient procedure and um things like that. Um It was really helpful to um to get this uh towards the, especially when the portfolio was changed. Uh So that's how I approached it and um I'll let doctor a share his own experience with this week. Um So I was a trust good doctor in my hospital, so it was fairly easy. Um All I needed to do was just to speak to my clinical supervisor then because all trust good doctors are clinical supervisors about what, what I wanted to do and my intention to do radiology and the fact that I needed it. So he just sent the ma copied myself to the um to the radio department and I was able to do the test. Um I know the new update because when I did it, you just needed just one exposure, but now you need um two exposures in ideally a teaching hospital and a DH um I don't think that would be a problem also if you're working in a, in an NS hospital, if you trust good doctor, especially if you have a, if you're working in a big trust that has a teaching hospital and other smaller d is attached to it, you can just do uh take in a teaching hospital and get an extra three days in another smaller hospital, but get two different letters for both experiences. Um So for um folks who are working like myself working in NHS. Hospital. I think it's the easiest thing on the um scoring system to get, you can even get it as a study leave without using an leave. But if, if, if you don't have um study leave budget or study leave um allowances. So, you know, your, your contract does not until you to get the deliver for whatever and just getting um your ual leave and taking 3 to 5 days out of it to do the test a week. It's fine. Um, but, um, usually they usually have like a long list, um, of, um, of people coming to the test week. So the earlier, the better really. Um, if you get, if, if you do the test first, just ma the department first, you can even, I think you can, you can, you can meet, you know, to yourself, if you know the person so far you trust, um, you'd have to go to your clinic provide so can just know the person yourself and since they know you, you work in the trust it's going to be so can actually. Yeah. Yeah, that's, that's what I'm coming to, um, to understand now that I'm working in the NHS. Yeah. Um, Doctor Iwe, is there anything you want to, um, as in? Uh, thanks again. I'm sorry, I've been trying to get my, to work but it's not like I've given up, um, regarding, uh, test. So we think, you know, everything what I said is obviously what everyone, you know, tends to do. Um, obviously it's changed slightly now and, um, you obviously have to do two test a weeks. Um, which personally, I think is a bit of an overkill. But, um, from an application perspective, you really need to do that to actually get the highest points. And, uh, from, you know, looking like three, self assessment, I actually think that that's the easiest thing to do. Um, because if you plan ahead, you can easily get those maximum points very, very easily. It just simply means for you to turn up for a few days in the regard department. And it doesn't make any sense for you to be applying for a special today. I'm interested in. So I think yes, there's a value in, in, in you doing a test a week and you really have to just turn up and, and just get it done. Like as a man, I said, if you have, if you're working in NHS hospital, then you can um clearly uh do a test that we can to the hospital. And then if there is another referral hospital that's attached to your own hospital, then you can organize a blood test and that will give you a bit of a different uh variety. I mean, I alternative work for you to um get your test done is by looking for uh various platforms and trying to speak to them to see or they can send you the name or an email of the person that gonna assist in that department and that way you can easily try and, um, and get, get a session on. Yeah, Doctor Make you were, um, from what I remember you were in training when you applied for radiology. Is that correct? Yes. Yes. So, how, how did you go about, um, like scheduling your test a week? Did you have a test a week? Yeah, I did have a test a week. Um, it was very short notice and I was quite lucky because, um, he was doing COVID if I can remember. And I think I was the last person that had a test week before they stopped doing this for a while for that application cycle. Um, so we just, I think what I simply did was I said I was interested, then I spoke to, uh, someone in the department who referred me to the, to the education lead. Uh, uh, that was in less that, uh, and then I emailed him, told him about being addressing the test. Then, you know, I got sent to schedule. Ok. And that's it really. Then I attended the sessions and I think I just did three days and I think that's all you have to do then three days was enough. Did you have to, um, involved with your education or supervisor or? You just kept it quiet too? I kept it quiet. They, they don't have to know, you know, with your own time. Really? Um, I think I do some, I think I was post night, one of those days, I think I was post nights on my first day. Then I think I did two days of annual leave afterwards for three days. So I was post night and I did afterwards. So, yes, you don't have to lay your education. So, no, I don't think it's necessary except if they are the ones that do it to apply for ology anyway, or if you're trying to apply for ology, I don't see any reason why you need to like education or not. You can let them know out of court. See, but it's not really necessary. And obviously the other thing is the uh you can't really claim totally for it. So you have to eat at your own time, unfortunately. Um And sometimes some, you know, we the ever growing palliative radiology, you might actually find it difficult to get the that in a place that is actually closed. So I've seen people having to travel quite, quite a bit to get this in the hospital. So I think you have to be very flexible. Yeah. II I think it's, it's something that's um came up with, especially with um the new portfolio. What I remember was when they, when they released it in October. Um I think the, the, the criteria they gave was really stringent and it's still the criteria that is on this documents. Um Such that I think the next day, almost all the radiologists were getting mails um asking for this because most people had only done one. So people were asking for an extra, they, they were being dila with it. So they changed the, they sort of modified it to say uh you can, what they, what they are focusing on is that those, those we have different um are different exposures in this instance that OK, maybe for instance, one is general radiology and the other one is interventional radiology. So people were able to be more flexible with it, what I would say, especially with the, with the volume this because now people are requesting for two. So you are, it's even more competitive to get a piece rather than, yeah, compared to like the previous years because you have like double people taking double one person taking like two spaces essentially. So the earlier, the better, the faster the um the better um I just before we move on from this um domain, I'll just um ask what, what do you think is beneficial for people to focus on during their test weeks? Uh Like how would they maximize the taste a weeks? Um OK, just before I forget as well, I think we have to also ask other questions from the chat as well. OK. Will do, will do. Um I mean, I think importantly, I think um in terms of what you need to focus on. I, I think you have to focus on and actually just getting to know what the specialty is all about. I think sometimes people come to radiology and they're not quite sure exactly what, you know, the specialties is all about. But I think you need to actually make sure that the specialty is for you, regardless of what you're so, so keen on doing radiology. I think the first and foremost is, is this kind of environment for me or not, some people come in and they just realize that, you know, it, it can actually be a bit of a struggle, especially when you are your early years and, and obviously, it's rare, but people do end up quitting general. So you have to actually, first of all, actually be sure that it is actually for you. I think that's the most important thing because I don't think radiology is for everybody and I don't think everyone is to care for radio. But that's, that's not saying that you're not if you're tuned into this, but you just have to make sure that you've answered that question as well. So I think you should be very open minded. Um You're not, you're not there to, to learn what fluoroscopy is. You're not there to see know how a CT scan works. You're not there to report CT heads or MRI heads, you're not there to do interventional procedures, what you're actually there for you just for experience, see how they work, see how much flexibility that they have, see whether this is something that is for you from a personal perspective. Um And I think that will detect what happens next because I think it take a week is a very good avenue for you to get into projects. Because through my own test a week, I managed to get one or two projects, I got close to one of the registrars and, you know, we're still friends to now and, you know, the student keep in touch as well. Um So if you're looking for an update, if you're looking for a research project or anything, I mean, because during the test a week, you're essentially part of the radio department. That's how most radiologic radio department treats, you're part of the department. So, so I think, you know, just get talking. Thank you very much. Um Doctor Roman, is there anything you want to add today? Uh No. Um it said it, it said basically everything. Um but this topic is just to get you want to get anything. It's just for interview questions, really ask interview questions to see if you actually participate in the. Um but nobody is going to want you to learn how to put the CT or x-ray or learn what flow is. It's just to see how the radiology department works and just get your hands into as much stuff as you can. So you can answer most of the interview questions to put to them that you Yeah, I'll, I'll just add that. Um and put one, I think when I spoke with doctor, one advice that I got that was really helpful us to. Um and also with one of the research and when I did my test was to early on interact with the s one to ask them how their application process was the interview and also ask them um if they are going to be will to um do interviews for you, mock interviews for you if you get um um invited for an interview. So yeah, and you have to keep in touch, of course, um just with them, carry them along so that you are not coming out of the blue do by mon interview when the time comes. So uh the most, most people are really helpful. I, I remember I worked with um one of the registrars on 11 of the register where I did my test on publication I did. And also it also was really helpful when I did my um um interview preparations. Um So uh I'll, I'll just quickly pick and answer the quickly answer the question. So we don't um fall to uh don't fall back yet too much. Um If I ma resident overseas, those this counts as we. Yes, it does. Um But you also understand that SST one is limited by time limits for radiology exposure um if you have uh more than um 18 months of radiology training before you um apply, you are disqualified. So you need to be very conscious of that timing. Well, yes. Um I've, I have seen, I know someone who was counted as the multiple exposure, so you should get the maximum mark for that special for that. Um To me, um, if they cut off for total amount of points there for your application, there is no cut off. Um You can literally get zero. No, you can't get, you can't get zero. And um of course, your application is still valid, but you might have just drunk very high. So just try to get as much as you can. No test the week does not have to be three consecutive days. You just want to your three days counts as um um C sessions. Yeah, two weeks. Yes, exactly. Right. For my second test, the week I did because III I didn't know we were going to have, I was just doing it because I really wanted to know about radio. I was, I was booked for three days, but I only complete two days. But when they um uh brought the new criteria, I just request that if I could do one extra day. So they were about two months apart and I was the counted as for me. So that's uh that's ok. So um Tobia kindly shared this experience. So I did two exposures is not more about doing it in two different hospitals, not uh necessary. So speciality wise, to be honest, I'll just say, uh from my experience, from what I've read, it's quite subjective. Uh But the major thing is you want to be sure that you have a kids to show that you have different exposures. Um Some people have said it was accepted to do like different exposures in the same hospital for me was different hospitals. So I can't speak 100% for that. Unfortunately, I feel sorry, I think it's safer to just get him into hospitals because, um, I think last year they accept it because it was a new, new um new um criteria they got in. So you don't want to, most people, everybody I know most people that are coming to my department to do this, they all go to hospitals. So you don't want to be the person that you, you, you don't have enough and it's something you can get maximum points in. So just to it, I think it's safe, safe. Right. Yeah, I mean, obviously, you know, I mean, it's going to be rare but if you have, you know, from the document as well, if you have an elective or some other stuff you've done before. Radiology, that's already one significant exposure. You know, if, if in the, in the project as well, I think that's already one exposure. So you probably might just need to do at least a week. The key thing that they want to see is they have evidence for these things as well. So you need to just make sure you all right. But, but I think for, to get maximum point. Yeah, I think you should just, yeah. Ok. That makes sense. So, second to main um leadership and management, this is um an, I think entirely new one. The, the maximum mark was to um for people that have um national level leadership or managerial role involving radiology. I, I don't know anyone personally that fits that bill for my year. Um But what I did, so it was um I was part of the national leadership team for a, for a non government organization related and that got me um the, the next um second line which was five. I don't know. Um Is there any way or if um doctor anyway, that's one can get this. So leadership looking at it is very difficult because they want it involving with radiology. Um So I'm, I'm not sure I, I was, I was reading it today and I was thinking what, what exactly they want to leave you like person that asked about your, your current resident or registrar and you are in radiology and you are involved in the form of um involved some, but I don't know which way you can get it in radiology because even if you are med school, um like um, different medical schools have different interest groups. I don't think that's the count as having national level or I think that's, that's still number two, it's difficult. I think. I just, I don't know, this, this criteria is quite, very strange. People, people go 44 though this year and I was wonder how with won't want to be. I mean, I mean, we want to prepare, that's a little bit tricky, isn't it? But at the end of the day, you have to give up on some certain areas, you just have to make up your mind and give up on some certain area of time. You have to try and focus your attention on things that actually, and we'll give you ma right. And I think you don't want to be in a station whereby we're trying to get a that will and everything else suffer from what said to. Although obviously I know a lot of, I know, I know, I know me patient that worked with, uh she knows she has, you know, she is the president of undergraduate re society. She's involved in as in under uh rap for B SI R and stuff like that. So those rules are actually there if you're actually interested. But then you need to start early for those rules essentially even getting rules within the hospital. Again. It's also possible if you had any that, I mean, if you had any um leadership role, I think you can SDI call it three. Yeah. Yeah. If you had any, you can get it through. The problem is how do you get a five 47? I notice that that's where the issue is. I think, you know, if you have six months prefer at least, or three months worth you can get it 100%. Um, you know, me, you know, I mean, there's a lot of things that you can easily get. I mean, they said sports, if you, the captain of your team you can there a time limit. Exactly. I mean, you know, it is what it is but there are lot of charities online that can register for and you can get your points. That's how you say it, you can easily get through points. Yeah. And I think for most people, I would just cut my losses here personally. If it's for me, I would just cut my losses at three and go except if I have a way of, you know, um, getting to be ma or one of the colleges or being one of the associate college tutors if IMT, because when I was an IMT, I was an college tutor. Um, so as you mean, I was still applying now, that didn't count when I was applying I would have gotten like a five. Ok, because that's really a five for me at that point. Um, so again, you just have to be flexible. Yeah, you can choose what you can win. I got your losses. And, yeah, I, I, I've spoken with a number of people applying to apply this year. I think one thing that I comes fine now is the number of people discounts some of their leadership experiences that they've had previously. Uh, because it's maybe it's too long, maybe when there were students or something. So, I think you should try to, like, just brainstorm. Think about all the things you have done. If you were active in like student related activities, you probably would get at least a three in of some way except you were just not um engaged at all in this, in this area. So for this to um I, I think this one is especially important for people are not applying this cycle if you're applying in the next cycle. So of course, you know, that that's um I mean 2025 cycle, you know that OK, these are things I need to work towards. I need to join the radiology department or radio I interest group. And um it indicates interest in being a um a leader for Rega. I know um maybe December or after this um application after the MS A, we're going to open um uh call for people who are interested in leadership positions, but this definitely does not count for this year. It will have to be um against next year. So it's just things you have to keep your ears on the ground of for and um yeah, um I, before I forget I just want you, you mentioned something that uh I just need to see because during our year, during our time, um I think, I think it might be similar to the time. Um This to me was just in interview and do just actually question any, any leadership experience have you had or do you have any experience? The one I had was actually one from med school just like a charitable organization. So if you don't call it or if you don't bring it up, it doesn't count. And I think that was, they were more impressed with that and all the other, the other things I've done, I've said and that just came out out of the blue. So what, what they're going to do is not score you or anything you have from med school, from religious body, from anywhere targeted organization, just um, package it up and give it to them. Once you get like, um doctor, you get three. If you have any targeted organization member of or something or something from your body and church or anything, you get three. But it's bad. I'm not, that might make the entire difference. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we get to the dome. There was one to me that I was having a chat with someone was applying this year and II I got, who applied in C I did, I got to know that I had um I think I lost about three marks. I had the same proof that I did, but I didn't submit it. I submitted something different because I didn't think it counted and one counted for like the maximum mark while I got me like a three. This was like in the price domain. So I lost like 44 marks there. So you have to just be in a sense. Um How do, how do I say it? Yeah. Don't shoot yourself in your food basically, which is why it's always good to find someone that um you know, that, you know, um someone applied before. If you still having a, just have a chat with the person, go by the list just a quick 10 minute conversation. Tell them what you have and tell them what you put in and the person can just pay you 10 minutes to have a look through. It can just give you a bit of a rough advice, isn't it? And you know, that way you might actually upgrade or stage some certain domains or if you're over claiming they can tell you this. I think spinal count, this spinal count. So it's always nice to, to run your application through to someone. Just a quick chat, you know. Yeah, I think it's always use. Doctor was very help in that aspect for me. I remember I sent him all my, I told me a lot. I sent him all my um uh what the proof or? Yeah, my portfolio and he was able to give me a very um reasonable and very useful um feedback. Um So we'll be moving to um the um level which is teaching and training. Uh I think this was a part of your portfolios too. Yeah. Yeah, it was, you can go. No, I think. Well, yeah, it was. But I thought, I think the, the scarring was different, isn't it? Yeah, the scan was different. The scarring was different. All right. For, for my own, for us. I think I, I got five year um I was able to participate in a um any national, so any course, um my made course was that the, the training course gave me the opportunity to also um participate in the national um academy which I did. And um I think, let you gave me and qualified for um the maximum work in this place. But um the reason why I went for that was because I was not in the NHS. Uh what I would have done um if I was going to apply while working in the NHS would have been to um last week colleagues in all that trust that I knew who interested in. So like a training course. Um that's online International Program and try to get maybe like medical students or Fy one s or Fy to inter wouldn't need that information to um sort of like, um go through it and give feedback. Um, I don't know what, what um, um, proof that you, what evidence was your evidence for that domain when you applied? Ok, great. Um, I remember, I don't think, yeah, I think this, the, the requirement was slightly different but I think what I, what I did was, um, um, I did, I did quite a few teaching for medical students. It was organized by uh sort of the medical education sent in. I worked in at that time and I did a couple of sessions with them and I brought, um, certificate for it and obviously as part of our, er, comical training and, er, sort of weekly teaching. I did a couple of sessions there as well at that point and I think I did a couple of more teaching so I had quite a few teachings that I did. I mean, the only thing I didn't have was I didn't organize the teaching program. I just did quite a few teaching as part of my. So I don't think I scored the maximum points there either. I think I just, I think our, our scoring system was over 10. Yeah. And it was two points over time, isn't it? 2.5? And I think I, yeah, so I, I, I'm sure I just got the maximum point for it because it's not like a national program, uh, teaching program or anything. I didn't have the money to pay for the teacher call. So I just ignored it. I think the main reason because I started to do radiology one month before the artificial closed. So it was just more of trying to get out what I already have. Yeah. As you, when I knew that I was, I was convinced before, I think I would have done more stuff and scored multiple points in teaching. I think teaching is always, it's something I like doing and I think it's something like at least this, you can score maximum point if you actually have a bit of time to do it. But you know, you can actually score a maximum. Yeah. And there was someone you mentioned, was it the educational elite that helped you to organizing or you are teaching sessions most of the time? It usually uh if you, you know, if you usually speak to the uh the medication center, OK? For someone to do um stuff like that or all right, for those in the NHS. That's something to note the medical education center. F I mean, now it's not probably um a the perfect time to be discussing both of you, to be honest. Uh because we are just um two months away from the deadline. So, but um I mean, the doctor I said he, he applied, he had not by the time he was applying, he had not made up his mind yet. As at this time this is September. So that mean you made of your mind in October. Yeah, I did my test in um in November. Oh, wow. So I submitted my application the last day was four and I submitted it last day. So that that's giving up to and people will feel it's too late. Yeah, I didn't have much in terms of my portfolio personally that was related, but I was already in some form of training health because I had other things around it that I came for, um which helped um as well. But you know, like I said, because I thought I was short of time, I decided to focus my attention on where I know I can actually claim point. Ok. So you just have to figure out where you are and still. All right, see cause wound and salvage maybe. Ok. Um All right. So we'll just move on to the next um session at this one. It's not, I, I don't know, I, I don't think there's much to say on this point. It too many qualification. Uh I a you want to um just discuss that one? What, what do you think is the maximum is reasonable? Um Well, it, it, it depends on your personal circumstances and it, it is quite separate. You can get master level if you don't have it now, you can, can start getting a teaching qualification if you don't have it now. But the train trainers or cause it something you can get to this cause um yeah, quite expensive. Funny enough. I did the online version and accounted the online. Oh, that's nice. That's nice. Yeah, the online version was cheaper and I just did it then and accounted for me then. Um I'm sure it's going to come now also cause I don't think if nobody is specified, they want you to go face to face to do it. Yeah, I mean it's, it's a bit tricky really? So there is um the online one, there's a future learn on future learn. I think if you are in the NS you have access to it free. Oh really? Yeah, I think so. You, you can complete it free. But from what I've read in the past, some people have had it, it's more of like, and it's, and miss some people have had it sort of rejected. Some people have had it. So it, so mine was um done by, was it Oxford Medical? The same people that did that course. So instead of I think then cause we still have the restriction then. Yeah. So they offer this online course and I, I think they still offer the online course down. So I did the online course there. So it was not the Yeah, so I think you got their certificate, they release it online on it. Um, it just that, that I've done it just cause, and I got the c uh so I think you, you have to instead of just, like, instead of attending the process, you have to do a lot of self learning then do an exam at the end just in case. Yeah. So, yeah, I think they have to basically on that. Um, it, ok. Ok. Yeah, I think, yeah, Doma three and four can be very tricky, isn't it? And honestly, in domain four I would just, you know, if you can get up to, I mean, if you don't have the certification, you don't have it so you can get four points and so just take your two points and, and just leave it with that if you don't have it, I mean, obviously if you have the PGC, some, some form of teaching, then that's a four. Um which I mean, if you can't get it now essentially and then just to go back to that domain three, I think you can, there's a possibility that you can get up to fall. And an example I tell people is that if you're working, let's say you're working in a, in a ward, for example, or even in Ed, you can, you know, schedule regular teachings, right? You can say, you know, you can schedule regular teachings for, for medical students or even for your fellow colleagues, you know, juniors on the board or even for nurses and colleague visits or ECG interpretation or um just something basic or something that can run in series, right? Or, or chest x-ray me for uh couple of sessions that you can do over a three month period, spread it out and let them know this is a shots or big size teaching program that you're doing. Find a nice consultant or a nice regar that is willing to be part of your mentor there. And you can do like a quick half an hour every other week for three months and just get someone to do is to get it. But you have feedback from it. So you don't have to teach 20 people. It can just be four or five people to attend and give you feedback regularly for those sessions. It doesn't have to be anything groundbreaking. And I think if you do that, you can easily gain four points in the three. Um This, it can actually be a local teaching program as well. So something that I think domain three can easily get four point that domain four, I think the maximum medical will get is to accept some teaching qualification before. So, so 22 things. Um, the first is for someone who is going to be applying in 2025. Is there anything that they can do like to get Ivan to? That's reasonable. Uh I'm not sure about the process, but they had so many trusts can sponsor you even as they trust agree to do PT sets that I've heard of that also before. Um, it depends on your contract so they can sponsor you to um especially if they have like a uni attached to them. Like I, I think not, I'm not sure if not, I not did something similar. Um Well, I don't think it's, I don't think it's um it takes probably for next year though cause you need approval, you need um I to stop sign negative. Yeah. Um So what you can do is try um you can, you can try and try a bit and see if you get it. They, they, they tend to prioritize, um, well, what you can do is try, try and see what, what comes out of it. Yeah. But funding to sponsor to do. Psh. Yeah. Yeah. So that's something to, um, for people to consider it. I don't think it's anything for, it's cost you anything, even if you will, hopefully, um, you get in, you can still complete your program and get your PC. You lose nothing by starting the process as soon as you can if it's available to you anyway. Yeah, I was going to say something about the, um, 30, I have. Ok. Um, yeah, I was going to say it's, um, for the organizing, um, just to add to what doctor saying you don't necessarily even have to teach in my own opinion from what I read from this. If you organize it and you get like, um, maybe experts and to teach for the, is a chest x-ray. Um, and you just making sure you organize the program, make sure everything gets go this thing you still have like, um, I think you, yeah, and it's a three month period. You just have to keep it good for three months. You can do that part of the series. There's a lot of radiologists always to teach. There are a lot of people that always to teach you and just go find someone to say, you know, I know you want to teach me, I can get people, can people online just set regular link and on 10 and organize it for a period of time and see how it goes. And people are always keen to fight for that. I can teach them. It's teaching, everyone wants to get some teaching and again, some, some seniors also want to teach, but they don't have the time to organize it. So you, you can't just be the person that helps them to actually get it going. So uh I think if you're trying to apply next G I think you can get four points in the four no, sorry, not four points, sorry, four points in the three. Um at the very least, then can you potentially push for five points in the main three we trying to apply next year. But then you need to become a member of, you know, of a particular body, you, you know, joint um join this in society or some form of society that you can participate in their teaching program. There's someone applying this year. Um, he's a member of C, I don't know if you know, c I kind of, so he, he, he contacted me, he organized uh radiologist sessions to teach med students in and also in Nigeria and I think he's going to get five in that. So that's something you can do. Um I'm sure if you contact um, people in Nigeria or your country anywhere you are organized, teaching for people online. Um So far you get people from multiple locations, multiple trusts, multiple hospitals. It count national really. So five, not just one place count national. If in the series, then that count. Um that might be difficult to, but he was able to do that. So, yeah, that's, that's an idea. Yeah. All right. To get some feedback as well. Do have feedback for this, even get some feedback again. So just make sure everyone, I think he probably doesn't need it. Yeah, I Yeah. No, of course, feedback yourself. So we know this is what we are doing, right? And this is what we are doing. This one. I think there are some questions in the chart. All right. Um So said I did a P education and train CD NC. Um If, if you have evidence to back it up and prove that it was national, you thought people from different places and it depends on what, what, what length it's just if you can get feedback for it or you have a certificate showing that you ta people from different places then that my count. But national teaching, I think what they want is like a teaching program, not just one of teaching. So they put it like in a series or was just the one of the teaching? It depends on how you actually put it on how you sell it and your evidence, you have to back it up. Really? That's very true because you, you, you know what you have, but you have to convince the person on the other side that this is what you have because you're not going to sit them to talk to them and explain to them, you just have to show it and drop your evidences. So, yeah. Yeah. So I, I think there's, there's something in the document that says more than one, more than one teaching session. So you have to keep in mind even if it's um but one thing I would say, especially with um this port is they can change it. They can because like people popularly say it's getting really competitive to apply to energy. So they are making it more a bit more stringent or they're trying to find ways to differentiate people. Personally. I don't think they will change it because they've done a total overall in this last one year. I don't think they will be keen to, we still be open to just especially for the requirements just do a little bit more. So instead of doing just two presentations, do maybe like three or four. So if they shift the buzz, you are still covered and you're still, um, in the, um, in the lo but if you can't do it, just try to reach the, um, you both through as much as you can. All right. Um, so audit and quality improvement, we have a session we've done with Doctor Iwe on this. I'm talking about how to organize an audit. So we will not go deeply into it. Uh But uh just uh doctor there. Is there any um So like quick audits you have in mind that people can't do that. We before November 30th or November 23rd, like is the deadline if you've not done your test a week. Um One thing you can easily do is to go to the registrars, registrars always needs one audit by yet. So if you can see a nice reg that you can combine it and do one. So you, you just organize it and make sure, let him know you have to be part of the elite photos. I think I did one that was quite easy. It was just um nice guidelines. CT head, that was quite easy and CT head is very in those you'd have to do something big or, or mess I was able to complete the collection in a week and I was able to present so it's not something you can actually do young presents quite quickly. Um, so just for there's lots of, uh, the nice guidelines changes every time. Just check that the request meet nice guidelines or CT PS. Uh I think the one off the top of my head now, but those are the two I can think of. Um, but now you, you need to, so my advice is don't to look for something like stay and trying to find a cure. It too expensive. Yeah, just do something simple and easy that you can finish in a month and you can present and we just have to remember. It has to be complete check. That's the only nine pi so you have to present early, you have time to check that. I, I definitely that you can, we do to go my, my, my thought about this. I don't know whether it works. But, but I think if I had like two months and maybe I've done my test, I'm trying to do my test week. One thing that will come to mind would be trying to find an audit that has already gone through the fourth cycle and detected like 1/4 basically in the departments. Then I would maybe just do like a presentation in the departments. Then after like maybe a few weeks, do the audits of the, I don't know if that's what you think about that. So you have to prove that you, you you have to prove you, you, you didn't do audits but, you know, really the personally, the first audit, I think what, what, what they really want to see is, uh, quality improvements, the quality improvements. I'm skipping already that you, you, your, your project has resulted in change in practice. I think that that should come. I don't think you have to do the first one as far as it contributed. You know, because I said leading the project is actually means essentially means, you know, major role in the conception or data collection or analysis and presentation. Yeah. So the fact that I actually presented it sort of play a huge role for this. So you can pick up an audit that has been done. And usually if you speak an A department, they have a that been done. But then wait for someone to it if actually do take the lead on the entire audit and get a certificate for it. I think that counts as um a change difference because that will definitely demonstrate a difference between the first uh loop and, and the second lobe essential. So I think it's, it's definitely something that you can try. And I think all this is something that is very tricky topic that and depend on where you work and that either you are, you know, with a lot of audits or you don't have any. But most radiologists I don't have to do. I know, I know it a, uh, so you can always find someone in your department that is easy to and have a chat with the person. And, you know, you might ta along and they might let you do quite a bit of that because they are not doing it because they have to be the, the lead for the project, they are doing it because from a portfolio perspective, that's why we have to do every year. So they can help you with the idea and they can let you know how you can easily get it done quickly and then you cannot end up doing the entire work. So, yeah, help you with access. Well, you, yes, because the problem is that most of the time, if you start thinking about another topic yourself, you don't really know how to go about, you know, who, who show what you're doing is actually correct, you know, who show how to apply the changes. But if you have someone that is more senior that is, you know, the consultant or whoever, then it's a bit of a breeze because they are to thinking for you, they're just doing the, the ground work to get the, you know, the project. So easy projects. Don't, don't, don't, don't do research, just do an, yeah, don't do any. No, no, no, no. Keep it very, very, very simple. The same point. Yeah. Yeah. So I, I just add for those who are applying for outside the NHS, you have to be a bit more um creative. I think. Um you, you, you most likely would not have the um soft structure that NHS will give you. I did do an audit. But by, by the time I was doing the audit with the criteria was just to do an audit, two cycles of an audit and you get both, of course, they changed it to be more specific. So I didn't get as much marks as I should have about how I approach it was. Ok. I was able to um I think there was a clinical incident on my ward and the what I was working on and I discussed to my clinical supervise. Ok. Can I do an audit to see if this is also reflected in other patients who were treating me this way? Uh I found a standard to use as my base for the audits and was able to and when I did the, the re found, OK, this thing is actually very significant patient risk safety factor. So it was really good that I did it. Uh So I did some presentation discuss with the nurses that I was working with. And um in a few months we did it that showed uh significant improvement in the um policies of the word. So I mean, if I knew that was um it was made very specific, I probably would have put radio to the um audit board. I mean, my letter had never made up my mind to, to do radio. Um, it's something you can just look for, um, clinically, um, self radio. I good um, thing on your word, discuss with your, um, word supervisor and see if, uh they will allow you to find a standard because you need a standard for the a to be valid or even if it's a quality improvement project, you don't need a standard in that case. Uh It's not that um stringent for you to have a standard in that case. So, um you have to be creative if you can try one or two or three topics because you need at least to edit uh just to show that. Ok, you are going through the process. Don't like doctor said, don't do anything that I found in the or will take you two or three months at this point anyway. I mean, if you have like maybe more than a year, you can go as fancy as you want and take your time. But if you don't have that much time, just be very um pragmatic in what you choose to do and not do. Yeah. All right. Uh Just quick. Um Look at these questions. Um Yeah, David, thank you for confirming that. Um some teaching fellow, job sponsor, the PGC. Um What do you do if you have a master's in medical education running now? Well, um I feel uh you, if you are able to get proof that you are, you've completed this masters by um the deadline which is um when the MS R closes, upload your evidence, isn't it? And the, the uploading is in January, but the deadline for completing is when the um application closes. Yeah, so that's for us, I think the stage of November for some reason on the um for the GP timeline for this year's recruitment, the operation closes 23rd of November. So I, I don't know how it would work on the deadline. Well, just keep that in, in November as your date for now because I mean, we don't know for sure, but just work with that in mind. Yeah. So if you can said, how can you get evidence for teaching online? It's just to get feedback from people. You've really um so after you've done your teaching, just send out feedback forms and collect it that, that, that should be sufficient enough. You do need the certificate for that. If you can get um and any happen, you can get, you know, you can send your feedback, depend on the platform by using some of them. Instead of feedback from automatically speaker, you can do like a quick go, go to your dog. Um Ki I projects in Nigeria, they can, if you, if you have evidence for them, it does not to the NHS I think uh if you have projects done in Nigeria, they can't, there's no reason why they should don't count. Yeah. So II I think we discussed this a bit in the last um um you can um you can use international evidence as much as possible if you have the UK based evidence since it's the UK applying for training that will be helpful for um for, for me, my um evidence for the domain was an international um no NHS based um evidence. So and it was accepted. So the proof is accept, they are very strange, which I don't think they would be uh because the, the application is trying to um I mean, this generally, this, the applications are trying to optimize for people who are the F two level. And for most of us, we are at the sort of S two levels which is just a bit higher than that. So we mostly have done one of the one or two of these things. The um for those who are working in the interest and I think the advantage um that we know the advantage of what we need to work towards basically is getting used to things that are already normal in the system, like doing S QR I learning about it. And of course, and if you plan to get training in the NHS, you have to have a good idea of, of it anyway. So you don't, you're gonna lost when you are um starting training eventually. All right. So um we would need to uh discuss the domain six academic achievements. So I think this is another bit that was in your portfolios. Um For us, it's a bit more stringent uh especially the publication bit. Um For me now, I was because I did not have an audit, I had to find a uh an educational post that to prepare. Uh Dox was really helpful with um me, get the topic that I can work on so prepared and apply created and abstract to um to submit to a conference which was accepted. Then I presented an educational poster or if you have an audit already, this is a bit easy for you. Basically, you just need to summarize your audits, prepare an abstract based on your audits and submit it wide to different conferences. And when one of them, yeah, eventually accepts you, you can then um use your presentation there as proof of um having done this. That, that qualifies you for um a three. Uh But if you want to have a four or five, I, I'm not 100% sure of um uh doctor. Uh I think you've done some um research. Is there any advice you want to give with that? I think you can get a four. If you're trying to apply for this cycle, you can potentially get a four for next year, but not for this cycle just because of the amount of time it takes for the research project or paper. And he has to go to review and all that sorts of things as well. So, but like I said, um get it three, a lot of national conferences and we now and as far as what you do this decent in terms of your audit, do a big case uh presentation, you can easily get an abstract acceptor. So getting a tree is quite getting a four becomes a little bit, you're trying to apply for next year, I think you can work towards getting a four. and there are various ways around it. You can try and publish a case report in radio case report. If you did a very good audit, that can is something I can publish where you need to speak to whoever you do that, you publish it and then they can help you publish a bit better with the public application. You can also try and pick out some generic papers that you can write yourself, which uh I'm not going to advise that that's a lot of hard work, generic research. You said, yes, you can, you can always try and do a generic research for example. Yeah. So that might be a little bit tricky to do in terms of you like the literature review on some topic or something, but that might be a challenge to do. So, I think this is something they have to speak to someone about and ask them whether they're working on paper or anything or would I have an idea they can. But it, so look, ok, we um your, uh, I don't know whether it's just my end but your audio is a bit more fluid. Oh, can you hear me back or? No? Yes, I, I can. Uh OK. I said, um, like I said, definitely in three is quite straightforward. I think if you can get your post a presentation at the national international level, um get at the national level is fairly straightforward. But obviously, if you're trying to get a 0.4 points to be difficult for you to do that for this um this application cycle, but you can potentially do that for next year and there are few ways around it. You know, you can try and see whether there is someone that you know, that is doing a research project and you can take the lead on it or you can any of the uh you know, abstract that you submitted before you can try and see whether is publishable and your audit is published, for example, or if you need a case report or the case reports are potentially um uh publishable, essentially few that case, you know, case reports. So you can easily write it up, especially if it's like a rare case and then you can do like a literature review and a case, you know, reports. All right. So you, yeah, a bit of work. Yeah, it does, it does, it does and the creativity in, in a sense you have to be very um yeah, imaginative. We, we did a discussion with um a professor of Ology in the UK. She was also um and that's at um and it's on our um page uh where she discussed about um how to improve. Um We did a series, a five part series on research in radiology. So if anyone's interested in that and has the time just go through or take time and it's available on the um page to go through. OK. Um approach to um literature review and all those um bits different components of um research in radiology. I think that will be helpful if you want to pursue it right now, it's a bit too late and there are things that are more important and has more effect that you may want to focus on like m sary preparations and um and all the all the other likes, but some things you might just want to explore in my own opinion because II I did come, yeah, I, I, when I did my research in the specialty, I went through like different people's experiences and saw what they presented and stuff and which is one of the reasons why we're having this today. So people can have like different perspective um from different angles into application. Uh I think someone mentioned about the letter to an editor, you read a um you read an article in the journal and you submit a letter to. Some people say they will accept it. Some people say they might not accept it that they want a, do I do I, um, number, but it's been accepted previously from what I know, even for surgery, um, surgery is a bit more stringent with the publications. But, um, previously I know it was accepted. You read this, you have a thought about, um, the topic of discussion and you write a letter to the journal. If it's published in the journal, you can. So me, I'm just saying if you're out of options, it's something you might want to consider. So you just, um, maybe at least you can submit the pitch from that journal to say, ok, we submitted letter to the editor, something like that. They are some, um, um, I wouldn't call them shady anyway, but they are not high quality, um, journals that we know of that you might be able to push in two months. Um, I know of curious. I don't know. Ok, I know someone who was, um, done the research through them, but that was for the US application and he was able to get it through. It's a bit, I, I'm not, I wouldn't, II, I would advertise if that's something I wish you to. But if you want to consider looking into them and see, ok, it's reasonable for you to, um, complete in the moment it could be helpful. Some people also say they're not going to be accepting them anymore. So that's a bit um not so sure. And to be honest, like the, it's going to focus on things that have more um impacts really and wouldn't take too much of your time, case reports, things you've already done, like your audit already would be good to like sort of like look into and see um how you can analyze it. Uh Doctor Io, is there anything you want to say about research? Um No, no bleeding. OK. Like I said most, most of, most of the things I had to get anything published maybe for next year. Yeah, if you're playing next year, yeah, that would be, that would be helpful. Um So do you think the criteria would change this here? Uh To be honest, if you ask me, I would not, I would say no, but that's very anecdotal. Like the only reason is I feel like it's, they changed it massively already and it's already sort of um focus. It does the work they want the portfolio to do, which is really reward those people who have a commitment to specialty and have a track record. But to be honest, never seen anybody they can change it um this year and they would usually announce it when they are inviting people to apply for the MS R A. So that was when I, I know it was at the end of October, they're about that they release the portfolio for a which gives us like maybe a month um before the submission dates uh for us to sort of build our portfolios and everything. So it's about 4 to 6 weeks before um the deadline for completion of portfolio for my um um remember myself, I feel when I change it, it's not going to be as drastic as last year, there's still gonna be um slight changes. So um I don't think we will change it massively again. Yeah. So what, what one of the um webinars I attended when I was applying work, I think we had somebody who works in the RCR works in recruitment process and she explained that I think for the year before or, or there was a round four where they had like leftover spaces for people. So they, what what they did was they now made um the portfolio very strange and basically was in like an earlier version of our own portfolio. And I think they were so impressed with the effects and everything. That's why they put it on our, that's that why they transferred it to like the main um round one applications. Well, I mean, to be honest, I would have said if, if they had it a year earlier, they should have uploaded it somewhere and you so people can walk towards the book anyways, just keep in mind can change board. I personally don't think that this will change. Just continue. None of us are working with the RCR. We are, we are no bloody trainee, but we are all training. So, uh of course, maybe when we eventually get the, we, we would be able to vote right now. Um Yeah, that's what, that's the best you can do with it. So just so we can quickly wrap up before time we've talked about uh do many things. Um We and I, so look that we don't have any other questions for you. Um Domain seven prizes and awards. Um ok, so for this, I'll just give you a brief um over for it if you um buy any means, gotten an award in your final year or you've gotten an award of excellence or any kind of award after your medical school. This is where you want to um bring that up and it would, it would be useful. Um I think in that case, uh I don't know what your experience was with it. Um Do you have any, um I think just from radiology institution or national meeting, I think that's, I think there's some radiology bodies. I'm not sure that I think that has to do some for me, but there are some radiology bodies that organize and stuff you can write to and apply for um decision in everybody is going pass final. If you have one, you can go to the 10 and if you don't have, unfortunately, you can go to a again during my time. I didn't don't, I think why, why I gave I didn't get the maximum month. I go one, I don't know what the scoring was was up. They gave me um uh like no 012 so I got one out of it. So. Oh yeah. Yeah. OK. I, I can't remember what the one was for during my time but I don't think it was this way. I can't remember. I was with you. Yeah. Well, if you have any order though, just drop it. I didn't know my order was going to count cause it wasn't yet. I think it was, it's more like maybe start or something and you can take um So anything you have, you just drop it. But um I'm, I'm not sure if we have those. I don't know. Yeah, they do. They do a quiz. Yeah, they do what radiologist do. Yeah. These ques you can just apply for this form also anyways. So if you get it and I quit it fine still. Yeah. And another this is conferences. So if you present your audience in a conference, you can win prizes or you present your research in conferences, you can win prizes. So you want to, even if you continue your national presentation, you still want to maybe just touch up your um audits in a way. I don't know what they look at to give them the awards. But um you can just apply to different conferences. Optimize your um audits or your presentations and try to see as much. Just try, try it physically. Just be, I don't know, you know, especially if you are applying away from the, in, just be your mindset should be. I'm going to try different areas to meet this one point and whatever, um, whichever works works. Uh, that was something that was really helpful to me that, that might have was really helpful because sometimes where you banking on work doesn't work. But because you have a backup or you have two backups, you can easily sort of go. Um the other, that was even why I had to um to taste in the first place because I was trying to increase it at once. And fortunately both of them worked and I went through with them and they changed the possibility to even reflect that. So that was really um very fortunate on my own part. So you want to do both if you have the time, I feel it is reasonable enough to, to um we are trying to a list of all the conferences and that given a words and everything, but it's a bit too late for this application cycle. But um you want to look out for radio GS, a things that you can, there was one that I just discovered was yesterday that closed on, it was close the day before it was uh if you're following radiology pages, you see all these things are noted. So I checked the radiologist page on Twitter and it was the, um, an essay competition sponsored by the RC, the R Don in with the RCR themselves. So, if I know I probably have shared it and people would, uh, so you want to keep an eye out for those things, follow all the people do not talking about radio journal line especially. I do know how, how they select those people. But I think the number of majority consultants are just really helpful. They just want to teach at their own without no, at no cost. They just want to share their knowledge and everything and share their resources. So you want to um follow those people. So sure you are in that um space. Um How do you provide evidence for awards? Um Basically maybe a certificate or a letter showing that you have won these awards there. Someone who said it's a bit and this, this feed back to what um doctor said, someone who said he submitted um a an award of scholarship, I think like he got maybe in the final year of his medical school and got the maximum marker. And that was something I had that I did not submit and I didn't get as I got like for 33 mark below that. So you want to, one thing you want to do is if you, you are not sure about the but you think it counts for your high score you want to submit it and also submit your evidence for on the lower score. Uh I don't know that that makes sense. But if you have like two different things that qualify for two different scores, so you can claim for the I score, submit your evidence that you have available for it. But in case they didn't accept that you still include, put it in a PDF file, still include the evidence for the lower scores. So you, because they only give you your own opportunity to submit your uh evidence, anything that you don't submit then is not going to be counted. So if you, even if you're going to appeal, I, I I'm not saying the scholarships count, please don't quote me on that. I'm just saying, someone told me that I submitted it and he counted. I'm, I'm not saying counts because I, I didn't feel the counted and that's probably why they submit it right? Or someone did. And to that, that just speaks to the subjective nature of it. Somebody else might have looked at that thing and say, ok, this doesn't qualify, maybe qualify for the two maximum or um yeah, I understand. I'm just say so nobody will quote me. And they say that somebody in that said, please don't quote me. But I'm just saying that uh you want to, if you feel like it's, it, it qualifies for you, go for it. If they don't feel though they're going to mark you down and say, ok, this is the correct one. They will give you a zero mark if you, if they feel it doesn't qualify for any of them. So what I'm saying is if you have like two evidences of yeah, two evidences that qualify for like two different marks in the same domain, submit them. So in case one gets rejected, you still have a low amount to fall back on. I don't know if that makes sense. Uh Doctor Hi. Is there anything you want to? Oh, sorry. Um I mean, I think you guys got a pain, you know, I recommend so if you, if you got the distinction in medical school great. But if you don't then you have to become a little bit more creative and there's quite a few basic competitions and all flying around. I think S RT have one that they do. I think the one for S RT is very good as well. I, there, um, I think you can score six points. Yeah, but not for this cycle or if you next year. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's for next year February or March. Yeah. Uh I think the S RT adverts one. I think that's one you can go and, and, and with things like this it's always good to have someone look at someone to what, to have a look at it. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, not because that is gonna make any but at least, you know, just make sure that you can give me a, yeah, it's always a good thing to, to submit. I think, submit it as a competition. Generally all these things are you find the trust to do. Yeah. If you have the time to do there's a British Institute of, um, radiology. I say that on the 24th of September, if anybody wants to. Oh, ok. Do that. Yeah, I see. Yeah. Oh, that's lovely. I think PS has closed but I think PSR does one every year and if just in case anybody wants to check it, if your psi is a win. So I think you, they usually, um, give you a grant, a travel grant for your conference as well. Has it closed? Because let me go and apply you. Yeah, it's close. It's closed. Ok. Fine, fine. I'm still trying to, yeah, there's an MD degree of 2009 counts. Yeah, it does. It. What, what do you mean MD degree? Is it like a normal MB BS or M BC HB? Um, that this question comes from Pria. Um, yeah, while, while, while you responding, we'll just be taking, um, be closing remarks. We're almost done at the, uh, ok, thank you. Um, Doctor Aba has put, um, one conference that is currently taking so less, um, um, maybe just take a look at the link and follow it. Um, after the, yeah, um, webinars, they just look into it. Um, closing remarks basically. Uh Is there anything you want to say or um those who are applying this, apply this? Yeah, I don't know, portfolio might be quite low on your. Now, there are some things you can still get. Hopefully you've gotten um some advice from this session. Well, at this stage, mostly it's just focus on M si I would say. Um, but you can still just don't, the only advice I would give is nothing, nothing you've achieved is too small. Um The worst you you can do to yourself is to underestimate what you have and don't post it. Um If you can work to get stuff fine, if you can't, it's still just fine. Just focus on MS R, you can get 40 or what is going and if you don't do an MS R, it's always dead. Um So hopefully. Oh yeah, that, that's fair. I did great. Yeah, like I my know that you just have to call you. No, no way your, your weak points are and just know that there's something about it. Try and search previous evidence. I have you claim reasonably but don't ur yourself. If you have something that you think should be able to count, then you can always explain it and find the certificate and feedback for it. Um And then at the end of the day, if you're limiting a couple of MS R ra your portfolio is nothing. So I think you need to try and meet that threshold point to view end of the day. So I think the M SI is, it's becoming more and more. Yeah, I know. Yeah, a lot of people complain about. It's really um the, the M SI being like the um the only requirement for interviews to and someone said, someone said, someone said someone in the college said that they were looking into it to see if and they all the portfolio is, but I just assume everything remains the same focus on the M si work on your portfolio as much as you can. One thing that is helpful is to sit down with the portfolio notes, the evidence you have at present and see what you're scoring and see you just look at what is reasonable for you. If you have not done a test that week to increase your score to the higher level, that will be, I think that would be um a very good something reasonable that doesn't take your time too much that still allows you to prepare for your M si adequately. I think that will be helpful in knowing. OK. OK. This is these are the things I want to, this is the way I want to approach it, create your strategy um towards um the exam also start preparation as soon as you can. And um with the exam, similar things identify a weak point work on um we practiced and um hopefully everything goes well. Um like doctor said, the MSR is the pretty, pretty much at, at this current um application cycle is pretty much like the major determinant of who gets and, and who does not. So you also want to um not negate that while also building your portfolio uh before we close it, does anyone have any uh questions for any of us? So we can um you can just answer on this call and after words, I'll just give one minute and if no questions come in, we're just going to close and uh hopefully, um we have all gained one or two things um in our approach towards the through the application this year. All right. Thank you, Doc doctor. All right. Thank you. Um All right. Um So I hope this has been helpful to everyone with that and I'm grateful um Doctor Adi has just finished call and was still able to make time. We're really grateful. Doctor has a busy, a busy weekend and I was still able to make it this evening. So I'm grateful. Um I'm, I'm in the ST one. Is it crisis? No, but if you don't know nothing, you get, you get to work and trying to be. There's a law you don't know, trying to enjoy. I keep telling myself that boy, it's, it's difficult when they ask you questions and you can see me. Yeah, I think, I think you need to try and get get, just, um, just pace yourself more to the plan is a very organize that one that, that do very well. So, so you have to do be every day. It's not, it's not something that you just do once you don't do anything for a couple of weeks and you have to do something small every day, but then you have to build up, you know, so you don't just start with, you know, articles and all this stuff and simple stuff and right. All right. I think that also goes for, yeah, this application process. So simple stuff. First pace yourself. Understand what is achievable and keep the faith and just uh just try the best you can really and I believe if you if you are dedicated enough, um you do stand a good chance. Yeah, of getting it. Thank you very much for um attending today. We're going to be if this is recorded. Um Yes, me automatically records. Um It might take a while for us to process it to um publish, but yes, it is recorded. Yeah. All right. If I happy for you to be released, we definitely, yeah, I don't have my picture. So it's fine. So. All right then. Uh yeah. Thank you everyone for attending. We we, we're grateful for you. Thank you very much. I'll be ending the call now. All right, take care, take care now. All right. Thank you. Bye bye.