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A ST one in the Northwest. It's finish from the University of Nigeria. Um I'm talking about no other person but Doctor Ken Day day. I'm Doctor Kenny. Can you? Hello, everyone uh from Thank you for an introduction. So, um good evening, Yvon, I'm Kady. Uh I'll be presenting today's um topic getting into radiology and the aim for today's um um webinar is to sort of give an overview um for those who are interested in applying into radiology and uh to give you an idea because uh it's not, it, it's a linear process, but it's not exactly intuitive. So there are some things that you might not be aware of that you should be aware of and things like that. So that's um what we're hoping to cover today. Uh So I'll just um start, let me know if you um if you have any, if you're having any problems with like, see what I'm presenting. So I'll just um like, all right. So, um can anyone confirm that you can see the outline page? I can see the outline? All right. Thank you. Uh Let's go. So this will be the outline for today's discussion Um I'll give an introduction, this uh describe the structure of training radiology in the UK and the application stages to expect um the timeline and uh talk about the portfolio, the MS R briefly talk about the interviews and then we'll um um have questions and answers. So, um the ge my general um approach um to um this presentation is someone who is either applying in the next cycle or open to apply like in the next one year, things that you can do right now to sort of like give yourself the best chance possible. Uh So a majority is um the use of uh imaging uh to diagnose treat and the most various disease as defined by the RCR itself. Um If you, I'm sure if you've worked just on one day or one week, um as a doctor, you find that um you've almost always will acting directly radiology. So it is one of the very few um cornerstones of a of medicine. Um And um because of the way medicine is in the 21st century, we're having to see um more people request for radiological imaging. And so there is um very um very, very wide space open for the speciality to um to improve or, and also there's a lot of workload. So in essence, we need more radiologists everywhere. Um and also particularly in the UK, we've had to work in the UK. So, applying for training in the UK is it's a bit um competitive. Um, it has one of the highest competition ratios for this year. Um There were about um less than 400 posts and we, we had about, I think over 3000 people applying. So you have um one person for one post for 10, 10 people, 10 people competing for one post. So, um it's just, and the difference between the person who gets someone who doesn't get can be very, very minute. So it's just um trying to plan ahead having a sort of like a good strategy and um yeah, hoping for the best. So the structure of radiology training in the UK is um it's usually a five year run through program and that means um there's no break. Um You don't have to get to points like some other training, training programs in the UK where you do your S one to ST three and then you reapply for I training. So for radiology is just a run through, it's a five year program. Um You have three professional exams before you um get, get your certificate of completion of training, which is CCT, which means you're a consultant in um UK S um for radiology and trainees from S one S 22 S3. You're still having sort of like a general overview of radiology and you're expected to spend your last two years um after your exams sort of doing some form of like um subspecialized of radiology while also keeping your um general radiology um skills. So, of course, um the if you are interested in doing interventional radiology, like those people are, would like radiology, but it's surgically inclined and there's every, there's actually almost, there's almost something for everyone in radiology. Uh So we have um best radiology. You could have people who are doing um we have nuclear medicine that has to do with radiology. So, um if you are a surgical person, um you have to do an additional year um for ST six to qualify as an interventional radiologist. So usually um the training starts with every level of levels of super supervision um which uh I'm experiencing right now, we work a lot with um consult and your registrars and radiographers to sort of like learn the basics of um radiology gain experience and while you also like gaining um to knowledge, so um you do that and you this wellness to, to write your exams, then as you go in, you, you get more um adjusted with more responsibilities, you join your own calls and um you're expected to function as a radiologist at some point in training. Yeah. Um So the timeline for the next application cycle, 2024 application cycle, I sort of like coped this from um the GP timeline because um it sort of like mirrors it in a way. So application for um MS R will be on the 26th of October. Um 2023. The application closes 23rd of November 2023. Um Please take on that date. The date the application closes, um invitation to MS R will be um that's of course you apply to uh when you apply for MS R, they will ask you um for some questions you expected to be to have completed your F two or you have proof um that you have completed an alternative to your second foundation year in the UK. And there's a list called um a Quest form. Um So it's of readiness to uh inters specialty training, which is um sort of which is an alternative. It, it, it, it's document that confirms that you have completed an alternative to the FYCM. So once that has been checked, um you get invited to book for the MS R exam, which is supposed to be around 19th of December. It varies generally for um for different specialties um for our year. I know GPS. Um I think they were invited like a day earlier than the open for people that just apply for radiology. Um OK. So uh the MS R window is 14th to 16th January um 2024. The results expected February interviews um would likely be late February early March and the offers will be probably maybe mid March, end of um end of March. Um the application stages. So I, so I've divided this into four portfolio building uh preparation. Second one is preparation for the MS R exams. Third would be the interview and fourth would be um the ranking. So all of these are depths it actually by definition at different stages, some of them don't work. Um It's not at the same time, you are not working on your portfolio and doing the interview at the same time. But the only thing you're doing together really is the portfolio and um the MS your preparation for the MS R exams. So it's just the reason why I'm saying that is um it might look like this is a lot of things to um for one particular training scheme when other um other training schemes are not requiring something this much. Um But you just the way to look at it or perspective you can give to you is just 11 at a time. I'm focusing on this at the time. Um I'll get to it then OK, I'll focus on my exams then interview and ranking. So the weighting um for um the different um parts of the different parts of the post is different. I would say this. Um The MS R A has the highest rating for our year. It can change, but uh it hasn't changed for a while anyway. So MS R A uh as a 40% waiting, that's the total. Um You have, let's say you have 100% as your total. MRI take 40% portfolio takes 30% interview takes 30% in, in essence, and the, if you, if you're going to have a chat with anyone who sort of like matched or sort of qualified for I training in radiology, they will tell you that the MS R is the single most important factor in your application. You can have like full mas in your portfolio. Uh You need your M SS I to progress. So the for the, for the for um the purpose of relevancy. So we don't spend time on things that are not relevant. You get um this discussion will focus more on the M SI and the portfolio because those, those are things that pass without those, the interview and matching or sorry, ranking your places is different really. So it, it's, it's, it, it doesn't, it doesn't um doesn't come in if you have not qualified anyway. So the MS R A is um a computer based assessment stands for Multispecialty recruitment um assessment. So it's the same exam for different specialties. Uh You have um people will want to do anesthesia um Psychiatry. Now, surgical um training ge in general practice, you have um them writing these exams. It's the same exam for the, the cut off varies for each specialty. Radiology is actually one of the highest, if not the highest um cut off so far. This year, it was last year it was around 5 25 21 cut off. Um But um for this year, it was around 5 69. This is an, a doctor. I've not seen this published anyway, but that's, um, sort of like the general consensus of, um, the cut off we had. So it consists of two parts, um, the professional dilemma paper and also the clean up of problems. So, for those who are, I mean, if you, you're working in the UK or you've written any sort of like, um, a UK final exam or you've written the club exams, you would be familiar with the sort of like structure of the questions, maybe not exactly the content but the, the exam is pitched at the level. Um the expected fy two should be. So in, in terms of like clinical knowledge, you, it's um sort of like a moderate difficulty. Yeah, but it does require a force to sort of like score highly. Um like the um presentation shows you have um for the professional dilemmas, you have 50 scenarios and you are supposed to complete this in 95 minutes. So this sort of like um what will you do? Maybe when um a you have an angry patient, how would you rank like the actions you can take or like how would you match the correct response to the different situations you are having um clinical problems? So we, like I mentioned it just of like your um final year in medical or sort of f to um level of knowledge you're supposed to have um people have tried to compare it to various of like college exams, Mr C and the M MC P. Um But I've not had an experience with that or it's, it's definitely doable for an fy, so I would say um like I mentioned, it is the G gatekeeper of radiology because on two counts first, it has um um it determines who is invited to do an interview in the first place. And two it carries the is Mark. So if you have like um a very uh a very high MS R score, we had people that scored um over 600 if you have something that high, even with a so meet um portfolio um score. And if you have a good interview to make, make up for that, you likely would be um in a good position to um get a spot in my own opinion. I give me no guarantees. All right. So uh this is just my um so for the approach advice, you can, you can speak with as many um sort of like regularity trains and get like different approaches. I'll just sort of like share those things. I feel like a insight for me. I'm going through the process and um hopefully, um they will be of help. So, question bunks are the major way um to prepare, there are a lot of them and um there's nothing that exactly says that one is better than um the other. So I did when I was, um, trying to like, um, start to prepare was sort of like read through people's experiences, see what they, they said, um help them. And um, these are some of the, some examples of, um question banks to work with for the clinical past saying, um S MC Q bank, um America, which, whichever one works with you, it depends on your style of learning and your current level of knowledge. If you feel like, um, you need something, if you feel like, um, something works better for you, it sticks better, then you, you can, you can work with it. But one thing I would say in this place is a lot of people, I feel like, um, the best, the best preparation material for most people was, um, past me. So, and, um, I would advise them to use more than one, sort of a question bound, especially if you are able to score like a really high score, just try to go through them at least once twice and, um, do the corrections, try to try to score as highly as you can in the mocks of, um, the question, whatever question marks you're using for the SGT. Um, so this SG is the, the advice for SGT is a bit. Um, I don't know, I wouldn't say straightforward because I, I don't, I don't think there's one particular material that works for it, but I'll say the basic that the basic you should do at least is, um, work with, um, the, er, the mock materials that, um, MS R organizers themselves give you. Um, also, um, there's, there are some, um, foundation paper exams where you have sort of like situational judgment, um, test. They're not exactly in the same format. So you have to take a note of that but, um, sort of gives, it, gives you an idea of the, um, kind of questions that can come out and that could help put you in the frame of mind. You could also find um it's useful to um go through the good medical practice because ultimately, that's what um the uh the sut is um trying to test for. So preparation time, it varies based on your knowledge level if you feel like it for someone who I have completed MRCP and might be um sort of working as the at the various of like academic knowledge. Um Basically, you might not need as much credit as someone who has not written this kind of exams in a long while. Yeah, I hope you get that. Um So it depends on your base knowledge and the time you have um we are about this is um practical September. So we're about uh four months out. So ideally, this should be a time where your vila started or you're thinking of like serious, starting, like serious spreads towards it if you're started from like not even, even if you are study for a good level of knowledge. At least you're more familiar with um the sort of like exam structure. Um So for me, I find it helpful to like Google. Um people's people who had good, I I scores in um um M Sary just so like read through their experiences, then lumbar of them online on read it. So just take some time, read through them. See. Um So like how they prepared and get some advice because that was my, that helped me um might help you too. So you, another way you can do it is take a um just sort of like a mock for yourself, maybe 50 questions or so you, you have an idea of, OK, I need to read this. I have no idea about this. Oh, this is my strong point and you work on it, especially this works, especially when you don't have as much time as um as you'd like. So you identify your weak points, um decide on the goal that you want to score. Um OK. Yeah, I discuss this then immediately after your exam, you can take a short break and um depending on how you're feeling, uh start your interview prep as soon as you can or you feel like you're ready because um the um from the completion of the exam to when you're interviewed, um from the point of interview for your um invite invitation for interview to your um to your interview probably get out like two or three weeks, which if you are, I believe like working, having all the responsibilities might not give you adequate time to prepare for the high level of, um, um, of, um, to the I I live expected or that's other people who are applying for, um, the specialty sports would, would have prepared. So you need to sort of like plan. What's that for? Um, one thing that I remember doing for emissary to was that um I noted I didn't have as much time um to read and prepare. So I, I tried to think I had took some time off like maybe 45 days to like a week um before my exam. So I could really like intensify my preparation. And um yeah, so yeah, you for the best. Um So II I then go to portfolio building and this is where I spent um in number a a well, the, the rest of my time actually. Um So the best advice to work with is to work with the portfolio requirements of the previous year. This uh is it can change for I a changed very significantly from a 10 point portfolio to 45 point portfolio. And uh it was um I mean, it was, it was chaotic when it happened, but it's now you have more time to prepare. So you would see um a high um level of preparedness for people who really want to get into radiology. So what what I do advise is if you can aim for at least say it at least a 35 to get on the level of the average um for this year because I expect that we will see a number of people that get 45 even for a year when we had only less than a month to um to like work, move from a 10 point um level of preparedness to 45 level of preparing. We have people that had 44 45 which was very, I mean, yeah, so um you need to, I would say aim for like at least 35. The what the way you can start approaching this is um do go through the portfolio yourself, do a portfolio assessment for where you are now look at what is reasonable, reasonable for you to achieve within the next time. We have September, October, November um to complete your portfolio and this is something I should mention. So the portfolio um for her year and I believe they wouldn't change this. Um Your portfolio is expected to have been completed as at the time the application closes, which is why I I asked um for you to take note of that time. So third of November, I'm not saying that this is what will happen, but I'm saying this is what has happened. So when the application closes, you expect that you have completed all your um your all your portfolio building, you would, you wouldn't be submitting your portfolio um evidences then. But uh I don't think they would accept anything as completed after then. You can confirm from the official pages and um see if there's any difference, maybe they might change it for this year. So um I'll just quickly go through all the um seven domains. There are seven domains um where you're expected to um uh score some points. So the first one is um commitment to specialty. The is, is the multiple significant exposures to the work of the clinical radiology department. Now, this can vary based on your um sort of like experiences. So for, for some people that have had uh some form of radiology training but not up to um the, the um the cut off for that qualifies for a T one. You, you might not need to worry about this so much. But for those who, who um haven't, you're expected to do um test a week. So I did um two tests a weeks to qualify for um sort of the maximum mark in this place. So take a week is um it's not a week, it's just um three days um like um maybe 8 to 5 spending it in the radiology department or rotating through and seeing what they do in the department. So one thing they did specify because this was one of the things they changed was that um it must be a significantly different um exposure. That, that means that I'm not going, you can't do it in the same department, but you're not doing the same exact things. For instance, I say you do a, a three week um uh test a week in um interventional radiology. Still the same hospital maybe. Um I do it 333 days, sorry, three day, um just a week in none of that, maybe general radiology. So like with it through all the different modality, x-ray CT MRI and the legs. So that, and you get letters that show that you had something that is meaningfully um different. Um For me that that was, it was actually one of the contentious um bits of um last year's um change in the uh requirements. But um yeah, I would say that was, that was the um at the end of the day for me, I, I did it in two different hospitals. So that's not that different. Um Another um thing you could explore. I did it in an adult radio department and the pediatric radio department it gave me did actually give me different insight. I'm not sure if this but for some people they've had um radiology exposure while they are students like in medical school, what you want to do is um by get evidence of this and say, OK, you've been so, so, so long this is what you've seen and it shows that you've had like two different, at least two different exposures to radiology um that spanned at least three days each. Yeah. So the second one, leadership and management, um this might be a bit difficult for those who are just thinking about radiology. But if you've always sort of like worked towards radiology, you might just have like, I worked in a national level leadership rule that involves radiology. So what you need to do is get a letter, sort of get a certificate um or any public sort of like proofs that you did serve in this role. There is a cave though um for this, you should have worked in these places for at least six months. So I imagine that they don't just want people to um present evidence that they've just joined maybe two or three months, a leadership position, two or three months before application. So for a number of people, you, you, if you are sort of like um sort of like leadership management kind of person, you probably may have um volunteer worked with some non government organizations relating to health or not relating to health. Um But you, it, it can qualify you for the second level of um the score for the, for the third one if you fail national level um leadership rule outside health care. And for the fourth and then lowest one, if you've had like maybe sort of like a hospital level kind of leadership post. Yeah, you can um just score yourself with that score. Um For the third one that's domain teaching and training. Um This means that you've um contributed. It's just basically what it says on the screen. It is how you've had a major contribution to national or international teaching program. And it does if you go through the documents. So it does um describe what an international um teaching program itself looks like. Um II I think it's supposed to span from what I remember. Spa, it spans about three months. Your TD teaching program should have spanned about three months and you have evidence here that you contributed, you made a major contribution to this. So same with the original teaching evidence that the Yeah. And um the third one also, if you had like maybe a hospital based teaching, just make sure one thing you should try to make sure you get proof. If it's possible you get feedback or you get a consult and writing a letter saying, OK, you've done this and this as a form of proof. So um for this um five is a bit sort of like, well impossible for most people because then the exams are trying to pitch for people that are at the fy two level. But there are some people that have done some master level um teaching qualification because they are passionate about like education for most people. Um What I would say is I'm sufficient for this A P sets if you're in the NHS now, um, it's a, it's a bit too late now but if you're looking at applying and next year you can, uh, speak to your clinical supervisor asking if the opportunities to do something like a PC. Um, if they trust is, um, funding anything like that. And if you feel like you're up to self fund, you can, um, you can, um, apply for it. One thing that, uh they've changed in recent years was uh if you, if you don't like an intercom degree that you completed a train AAA degree while you were in med school or you had some um qualifications, some exams, they give some special um scores for that, but they're not doing that anymore. So what? But they still um sort of um maintain the P GCP GD. So if you can keep, if you can, if you feel that it's still within your timeline, that's fine. But if not, you can just get to do um teacher training in teaching methods of at least two days, there are a number of them. But I would say especially if you're still, if you've not completed your domain three, you don't have like a major contribution to international international teaching program. I would say um look for a train, the trainers or train the teachers um um program that gives you the opportunity to um to participate in a national teaching program or a teaching program of some sorts where you have, you can gain practical experience of teaching. We still have basically three months. So if you're thinking of it, you can just join them as soon as you can. So you can start with the national program over three months and meet the criteria. That's, um, the, um, RC I used for us last year. It might change. But I, I think the, the change we had, um, this year was too drastic for them to do anything more drastic this year. But you never say never really. Um So audit and quality improvement, I'm sure one for those who have been with um uh uh I have been aware of s program over the last few um few months, we have had like one or two discussions about this. Um And you should find it on this page. Um They do it about con conducting good clinical audit. So I wouldn't go so deeply into that. So you expected for the is Mark to have um let let two ladies in caps two or more um audits or quality improvement relating to radiology can be shown to have resulted, resulted in change practice and change practice just means you're seeing a, an improvement from the first cycle to the second cycle. So, audit basically is a form of like clinical governance where you're trying to see how well your department or whatever you are um auditing um complies with published standards. So um the, the second way or you could do also do a quality improvement project that just shows that you've done something that um maybe a project or something that shows you have improved clinical service or some form of like the um health service wherever you've worked. So the second one, you've led an audit or according to improvement, um project released into radiology, just one you get five, if you've led any audits that um does not meet the approve criteria if you've only contributed but not led. Uh It's um you, you get to what I would say about this is um yes, you should have led but you understand that sometimes you can have, especially when you're looking to maybe work with a friend and both of you are looking to apply to radiology and stuff. You can be co leads. Yeah, can be co first authors or whatever you're doing. So keep that in mind. It doesn't mean because you're leading you because that leading bit is there doesn't necessarily mean that you have to do it all alone if you feel like you need help or you need someone else to work with you still um I believe that there should be an opportunity for that. Um So for, they also described this um change practice to be um yeah, it closed um for you to show where you either the second side or by the acknowledgement of somebody working in your apartment that it has resulted in change practice. Um If I just post this to see if you have questions at any time, please start typing them down in the charts. Um So we can um yeah, we just pick it up and um just move from there when this presentation ends. Um So we move to Domain six. Domain six is, yeah, you've had a postgraduate research degree, as I said, PhD MD M DS. Uh the second one you've um published at least one peer reviewed publication relating to majority as first auto. Now, I want to know how strict they are because I did not actually submit anything um that meets that criteria. But um I, I would imagine that you that way. OK. I, they actually defined it in the document and said um relating to majority means the project should involve diagnostic imaging but it does not preclude papers in other fields, meaning you can submit and things that have like a, an affiliation to radio like surgery oncology. If they have a significant imaging focus, like it's spelled out in the document itself. So um don't um box yourself, I would say and, and please be careful with this, but I would say um with your ranking, especially when you've tried all your best be post be a bit a more um I if your, if your evidence seems like it goes for one for, for um if it seems like it goes for a vascular scope or you're not very sure. And you're like, ok, should I try? I, once place, I'll say if it looks like it's, you can go for it. They would, uh, if they don't feel it meets the criteria, they would, um, they wouldn't give you the mark, but you also have the opportunity to, um, to appeal. But one thing you should know is, um, by the time you're submitting your evidence, make sure you submit evidence as much evidence as you have because that's the only opportunity you have to submit evidence. So even if you appeal, what they would do is just um take a second look at the evidence you've submitted and say, OK, yeah, we're going to stick with that decision or no, we're going to mark you up for me. They did um I did give, make an appeal for one of my scores and they gave me what I appealed for because my evidence um showed that Doma seven domain seven prizes and awards basically things that sort of like uh as max you out as an individual. The criteria for this is that it must have been open to all the doctors in your area um at the time you got the award. So, um for instance, um the, the is mark is um those who have um gotten prizes recognized by uh by recognized radio institution or you've had a distinction in your final year primary medical qualification or you've gotten prizes by either a regional level or a local organization. If you've had more than one private organization, you have a higher um level of um of um is you have a high score in a conclusion. Um I would say that if you are passionate to be, to give you context, yeah, just die training and I've been enjoying it so far. Um I feel like it's challenging in a good way, in a way that I feel like if you put in the work, you're going to um sort of improve at your craft and like you gain more expertise and it's, yeah, it's not um it's not bad. I mean, lifestyle wise for now because you're not just starting and not yet doing your own course. So we're still in the only moon phase. So you might just be, this might just be my only moon view of radiology. But I believe if you're passionate about radio, you should definitely give it a shot. It's about from now to the time of um to, to offer a hand. It's about 6 to 7 months, but I believe with um full course um hard work and a good strategy. It is um really achievable even if, and this is the cautious, even if, even if you operation today, um I would say you should um enjoy the process and hope for the best. Um So thank you um for listening to this presentation. OK. Um Thank you very much, Doctor Kenny for that wonderful presentation for sharing your experience. Um So I guess it's time to get into the questions. I'm sure people have loads of questions waiting for us already. Um Just give me a minute to have a look at the chart box. Um Mhm. Ok. So Kenny, are you ready for the questions? I'll try my best. Yeah. So the first question from Tega is what is the total score for the MSRA exam, please? So it's a, it's a weird um scoring system but there's no total score um for MS R A, the, the way they do it is they scale it um based on the performance of um the people who are writing the exams and I think that's why it takes maybe around 23 weeks so like sort out and publish a final um result. So uh you can't say someone who scored 5 50 I got this amount of questions, but you can say, ok, on the scale of ranking on a scale of and being around this person was so, so so and so best in this court, it's weird. I don't think anyone understands how we score. But if you, if you want to have like a possibility of how high you can get. I've heard of six twenties, I've heard of six thirties before. And so I don't know how true it is. But yeah, I've, I've had significant level of over 600 and if you have like maybe 606. That's a very, very good score for I would say. Yeah. Ok, thank you. I believe that answers the question. Next question is um uh from Ahmed. Uh If I, if we finish the last exam model for PG Cert before the application window closes by few days, but we do not, but we don't know if we passed and got the PGA T or not. Can I submit it as evidence or not? So, basically, this person is running a PGS exam um PGCT course and they think that by the time the application window is going to be closing, they won't have got in the result of their exam. But can they still submit it as evidence of having done a teaching qualification? Yeah. So thank you for the question I made uh what what I would say is um if you can get proof that says you've complete, completed this set or so. So, so, so dates and you can't submit that and, and this is something like you can have like a conversation with um whoever is running the program to ask if you can get the, if you can get an evidence that says you've completed this by this and this. Yeah. What, what the one I'm the one I'm a bit familiar with is um publications. So for those who are looking to publish and they are, they've submitted it to the um to the maybe to the journal and journal is reviewing it so long as you've gotten a letter that says this has been accepted, even if the publication has not been done. But once it's been accepted, that means it's going to the pay review process and you've basically published it. But the publication is not your house, like there's an argument for that. So I, I think if I'm going to just extrapolate from that, I'll say yes, you should be able to do it, but just make sure. And this is something you, you have to proactive with like reach out and ask them. Is this something I can get, can I get proof to show that I have completed this before? So, so, so date. OK, so I need to check with his um institution or the lead of the course. I'm just saying now someone apparently could not hear anything or see us, but so they are asking if the section will be recorded. Yes, the session there will be a recording after you get, I think you get a link in the, in your mail that for the recording. I'm really sorry. I'm just saying now that this person couldn't hear or see us at all. Uh The next question is will two weeks in radiology, in medical school still count as exposure to be honest. I don't know. That's, that's the, that's the, so some of these things are sort of like working with what you have and taking a gamble. But what, what I would say is as much as possible, try to get this a week in the UK because ultimately all you're trying to do is apply to train and work in the UK. So you need to have if it will be best if you have like um three days, at least a week, two of it and get your maximum mark. If you can get that, that's fine. If you can't get that, you're trying to see what alternative this when you should um ideally be explore exploring this other stuff. So like medical school and, and things like that. But what I would say is if you can have an evidence from a reliable source that shows that you have got in multiple significant exposure and the details. OK? How you did this for this time? You did this for this time? II I see no reason why I should have been giving you giving you full marks. So I don't know anyone past who submitted um radiology exposure in medical school. But if you feel like you don't have any other options, maybe your hospital is not doing any test which anymore and you have made for to like go to other hospitals in, you know, trust and it's not possible. Yeah, I, I feel like it's, it's like just try giving it the shows and trying to see whether it works basically. But I wouldn't, I wouldn't say that's like the best course of action. I will ask to try to this the week first. Ok, thank you. So try to get a test a week in the first instance that might just be the way forward. Um The next person says, um which specialties are good areas for F one work based assessments? That a, the radiology part entry? I'm not sure. I understand that question. Well, um what specialties are good areas for f one work based assessment? Um So um based on like the portfolio I discussed today, uh I don't think um uh there's any sort of work based assessment that you need. The only thing you need is a department where you can do radiology based audit. Basically. Um If you can get that in any um you can do and that's the beautiful thing about radio radiology is like I mentioned and bias or I feel like it's a Conant of medical specialties. So you whatever, wherever you are, you would be able to do what looks like that department and O and G department you would have like, yeah, what an adit that can cover both of them and include use also include radiology. So that's, I think that's the way forward. I'm not sure if that answers, answer your question or if it doesn't, you can just um maybe clarify in the chat chat box. OK, thank you. Uh The next question. Sorry, I'm having some issues with my charts. My questions that's why it's a bit slow, uh, for audits. If you were a coauthor, at least two people doing the audit, would that qualify as leading the audit? Ok. So I'm, I'm not, uh, to be, I'll just give you a disclaimer. I have not, um, I'm not marked or giving marks for all these things. I'm just saying this. So you don't like, take my word, take my word for it. But don't, I'm not unofficial in the rec process. So I would just say um yes, it should count in my opinion. I feel like it should count as leading the audit because if you co adit or both of you give like similar amount of um effort into like doing the, the um the audits. Yes, definitely you should be able to. But what you want to make sure is this that you have the document that says that in a document from your consultant or when you are presenting in the um international conference or something? It does recognize both of you as like f thoughts or like cos Yeah. Yeah, I mean cos but just make sure both of you are f thoughts. I think that qualifies as reading. Yeah. The um OK. OK. For that question, I have a question on audit. So maybe this might help. So for my own trust before you can do an audit, I mean, the form, the official way to do an audit in my trust is for you to actually submit it, go uh this, this document that you have to set uh submit, it has your objectives and how you intend to go about your entire business, right? And in that audit document, there's a place for project leads, you can have up to two. So I've been involved in, in the about to work with a, with myself and with a few colleagues and then you can specify who exactly is the project lead, the consultant lead and then the team members. So if your hospital has something like that, I guess like that, that tells you you can have your name. So, so that way you can have an official document. Now, can you my question on audit? Is this? So for the evidence for on the portfolio, I think he says that you can either submit the presentation slides or a letter from the consultant on your portfolio assessments. Is that correct? That is that why you submitted for yours? Yeah, I I basically just submitted my presentation, the presentation for my Yeah. And I submitted a letter um from um the GP I worked with on the audits said I completed on audits. Yeah, I think that that's why something do you because I feel that um that or the that evidence parts in the portfolio, I believe I I feel that there might be a few more things that might be suitable. So for instance, I said, I just said that that my trust as a formal way of doing it. So there's a document for, for doing the project that this is the of that. Do you think that I know you're not an official? So you can give well along with the presentation slide, it might it might be useful to submit such a document, right? I don't know. Yeah, yeah, whatever you feel like makes your case and so makes it. So what you want to do is where is looking at your document, document, you sub it say like you can see, OK, 123 documents and this person qualifies for this man that is claiming and moves on. So basically you want to try to like make their work easy as possible. So whatever it shows and uh especially when you are not sure if you are going to meet a Baar mark, just submit, submit your, submit your evidence for the mark, submit your, if you have the evidence for the smaller mark, submit it, you understand just something I will make person like look and say, OK, this person meets this vascular um um sorry mark that they are claiming for, OK. We have a lot of questions to cut you short uh for the audit. Um No, somebody has, they missed part of the talk best resource for SJT and you get a recording so you can see the part on the SJT um for publications being a coauthor in a team of two. Does that count has been forced auto? Um, can you, do you want to say anything about this or? I think you've said, I don't know. But what, what else is, um, yeah, being a court does not necessarily mean you are, you are being the force auto. Yeah, you can be the third of 50 still be, you're still a quarter. Right. But I think what, what you mean to ask is that if you have two first authors, so there are some journals that um recognize um more than one or as um four. So that, that might, you might be looking to submit to those journals instead. Um I don't know which, but I think we had a session with um Professor Aa who is um the um well, she's the editor for E pediatric journal in the UK. And um she, I think for more before my chat with her, she I'm not sure for me. Please let me know if I'm wrong. Um She says with a journal they can have 24 star. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. II I don't remember exactly for a journal. I mean, if we want to be sure we can actually listen to a recording, but I think I have seen all the journals when, when you want to submit, you can check some, you just need to check. I mean, one of the things she actually said that that webinar was that before you submit any um journal, any public, any manuscript for journal publication, you should check the journals specifications, what their own checklist is. If they allow for two authors to, to be, to, to be one, I mean, to qualify as first auto and if the general already tells you, oh, only one person can be first auto, then you know that being a coauthor is not the same thing as been two F autos. Yeah. Ok. Um I think that sort of answers the question. Um The other questions that we have, uh, someone has asked, what is the fastest way to get at least a minimum teaching core score? Um Sorry, I think we missed some questions, didn't we? Uh don't worry. Ok. Yeah, I'll send the one I missed. I, I'll go back to it. All right. Um So what was the, if? Ok, well, this, what if I like I would to sort of like for me said at first I Jack you, um, when I see you on the road, once you measure radiology to me, if you were to ask me, I'll say, um, the best thing you can do for three and teach teaching qualifications now is do a trainer program that you can, you have confirmed has the opportunity to participate in a national program. You still have three months so you can still get um, five points in your national um teaching program. Um course and you have at least two points in the qualification site. So I'll say look out for that. Um I did the um and this is not a recommendation. So don't o my neck but I did the um rat me me. I understand I was very helpful for that. Um But I'm not recommending them to you, but it was very helpful for me. And if you're interested, you can just look out which the um which the uh what's the name, the organizers and see if there's something you can complete if they, because they do have limited amount of people, they are taking part time. So, but if they're still taking, you can explore that if you are. And if you're, if you're particularly um sort of like very proactive and something you can do, you can organize the national teaching program yourself. There are some actually free MTR programs you can find. Um I think um being someone who works in the NHS, you have access to doing um the program on Future Learn. So you may want to look into that. So it, it comes free for you. I think the NHS self pays for it um for everyone. So you can look into that while you organize the, and a national program, national program does not necessarily have to be like, very distant. We have, I don't know how many people here see 40 or we are like, yeah, 40 or 50 people here. If you have like one or two colleagues all over the country, you can organize a national teaching program online for like a group of people that you feel like you're qualified enough to teach and make sure it spans over the three months. You do 11 month, do another one. What, what I would say, especially portfolio is go for low and game fruits. Like the easiest scores that have the maximum impact, the easiest the project that have the maximum impact your portfolio scores go for them. Like for audits, there's no way you want to be doing all these that Multicenter a multi year trial, you want to look for something that you can complete. Say five the you can maybe do your data qu one day it get you after you get got permission obviously, but you do your data one, the you do your insurance cycle once the next three months, you do another one and you're able to show, OK, but you don't want something very um complex. I don't know if that makes sense, but just keep that in mind. Go for the low in foods. OK? Um Thank you very much, Kenny. Um OK. So I ask, ask a few personal questions about why you choose radiology. Uh Unfortunately, we won't be able to answer that this uh um meeting but I believe if you are a member of uh whatsapp group. So if you've joined via before and you've been added to the whatsapp group, I I'm very sure Kenny will be happy to take AD M so and it is one of the admins for the group. So if you don't mind asking on whatsapp or so that we stay on course for this meeting, I won't be taking that question. I'm really sorry. Um The other questions that we have, if you, if I apply for both GP and radiology, would I have to see one MS R? Yes, I think one MS R for all the possible causes. Um possible specialties that you want to put on your oral application is just one MS R. Um So um so this is I'm not saying it, but I'll say for those people who apply for um GP and radiology, they had the opportunity to um sort of uh pick the exam dates earlier than people who just did for HR G this year. So that's just what I would say. Yeah. So if you, if you, I don't know why, but from when it happened with us, I had it happened the previous year, they just opened the portal for them. So if you are somebody wanted to book like the furthest dates possible, maybe the example is on the 16th and you want to book on 16 by the time you for all those slots are gone because it's the same exam. Yeah. And you have to book for just like maybe you book the earlier date which may not be very favorable to you. So you may just want to put that in mind. OK. Thank you. Uh Back to the question. Can I sit for, can one begin ST one after pla two or advi able to have some NHS experience? I was in radiology residency for 12 months in Nigeria. So for me, you can that. No. Uh I think it's really up to the person really uh come on begin ST one after two. I think you need GMC registration to apply for a radiology training. So basically, I think you just need to get JMC registration now. So whether you want NHS experience or not, probably up to you and then get the things on the portfolio. So perhaps I think organizing weeks might be much easier if you work in the UK, but never say never. I think if you are just coming to the UK after you too and you want to apply to the Trust for a week, you might still actually get away, right? But as to get the NHS experience really, I'm not very, I'm not going to be, I'm not an authority in this matter, so I'm not quite sure, I think, yeah, you're right. It's actually up to you really, you can um get to. Um so we, we open to have like an another event in um about two weeks where we have myself and two other um trainees come and so like talk about like we just give an overview today. We're hoping to, um, have a discussion then and talk about different um experiences. I, I applied, I was in working in the NHS when I, when I applied my training job is my first job in, but I've been working in the UK for, um, over a year before. So it's not, I wasn't applied from like, outside the country or anything. So it's, uh, it was a bit, my, my prep process was a bit not as straightforward as if I, I'll be in the NHS. But it's definitely possible. It's just um you just have to understand, OK. It might not be the smoothest. Um um might not the smoothest, right? But yeah, it's something you can always work with. OK. The next question is um I was awarded MD upon graduation from medical school. Does that count for academic achievement? I don't know what an MD. So I, I'm, I'm not sure if I can, I don't know what it means in that. Is it the name of your degree? Um Some people complete MB BS, some people complete MD call themselves uh MD some um M BC HP. Is that what you mean or is it, was it, was it a word of, of distinction? Was it like maybe you're the only one like got that in your class or something like that then? Yeah, it can, it can definitely be on the order. OK. So, so that with the certificate from this awesome presentation count as evidence of commitment to specialty. So I can see the s and that, oh, thank you for seeing. My presentation was also that at least I, yeah, but unfortunately, I don't think it will come, it can, it can to be honest when you do like um stuff like uh you go for conferences and to it can count as commitment to specialty, but unfortunately not in your portfolio. But when you get to your interview, you can talk about your experience to radiology. Like I talked about conferences. I had been to, I talked about like projects. I thought that was related to radio, why I wanted to do radiology. So um you can definitely let them know that you had an awesome presentation that spare you to do radio. It wouldn't be a bad idea but for portfolio, no, it doesn't count. Ok. With the primary result from the West Africa College of Surgeons can count as commitment to specialty. Um No, I'm not. From what? From the criteria we were given. I I don't think so but if you have um spent some time in the radio but maybe start a radio training before you left, before um completed 18 months. Um then you can, I don't think you need test a week from uh chatting with like your colleague. Um You don't need a weeks to get the maximum. If you have been. So like in majority training, then you have to leave, um, at some point before maybe you came to the UK or you moved out to another country before? Ok. Um, for a non radiology audit can multiple audits count cumulatively for three audits and can only get six points. Unfortunately not. I wish this worked because my, because of the very short, I mean, I, I made sure that they, they published the requirement for, um, a year, a month before the closing. So with the public when um the MS R opens, um that's when you, you have like um the requirements show you, this is what you need for your portfolio and stuff. So I, before then I, I got the maximum mark of audit, but with all the additional criterias, I think I went to like the third highest or like the second lowest kind of, of mark and I had multiple audits, but I didn't have that, that very specific. Um So you would just get for a non majority audits, you would like to just get, they won't write it in the documents. Uh I think just give me a minute. I will push the uh let me see, just one minute. I will try to post um the, the requirement for so you can just go through it yourself and see. OK, this is our comment section. Um Yeah, so you can just go through the portfolio yourself and you see, OK, this is um simple. It doesn't count, there's no community sorry. That's the simple answer to that. Yes. Two people have asked about how to get into the Rega whatsapp group. So, Canny, I'll give you an opportunity to talk about Rega at the end of this program. Uh So the group um but I think we would find a link for our registration and put it in the chart as well so that you can register, do audits from hospital outside the UK count. So um I did not submit that yet, but I would say that they did accept um international um international um evidence for my um leadership in healthcare. So I would say possibly, yeah, they, they do accept um the national evidence. But if you ask me if you're currently not in a country and you have the opportunity to participate or to read an ad wherever you are, I mean, what's the, what's the worst that can happen? OK. Well, you waste your effort and they don't count it but I think um you have a good chance for it. They recognize it, it can be proved that, OK, you meet all the criteria, you've done this in your partner, you've shown that it's increased this thing and you have a letter that can say, ok, this person did this, I believe it will be like if you are not yet, if circumstances or you not in the UK, but you want to do an audit, you can do it where you are uh but don't quote me, but I think you can do it where you, if you have no other options. Yeah. Ok. Uh, another question about whatsapp group, there seems to be a new crest form for 2024. I don't know if a previously signed crest form from 2021 can be used for the application T A. Uh, I think for every crest form there's usually that disclaimer in front of the first page that says every other product crest from now they won't take it. Is that right? Kenny? I've not looked at the one for this. No, that's why, that's why I remember actually. So once is a new one that this one is not quite, it's quite like it's lighter. I don't know why. Definitely not as intense as the other one. So I think it's everyone's favorite you. Yeah, I was, I was not read through but someone was going to request from beside me and I think the person was just saying, oh, it will be easier for like UK Hoon to for your post for like six months. They'll be more willing to sign like this document number. I've not tried to just one page or 1.5 pages un like the four or five pages. The other one was so, yeah. OK. Um Yeah, so that question about the MD after, if they could use the MD for academic achievement. So she's put up a follow up question that the MD was equivalent of MB BS. Uh I think where the, so if you look at domain six in the portfolio, it says if you or the postgraduate research degree, for instance, a phd MD M DS. So from this, your follow up, it seems your MD is actually still your first degree. So that won't be an academic achievement. What do you think? K Yeah, I agree with you. I agree with you. OK. Uh How does the UK master's degree in public health contribute to your portfolio building for radiology? If it's a research degree gives you an a, a level. Yeah, it gives you like the I score for additional degree. So yes, and you never can tell maybe they will change your portfolio and interview any postgraduate degree. I sincerely to do that because I, is there any, yeah, is there any upcoming radiology conference this year that one can attend to demonstrate commitment to radiology? I think we posted some posts some people accept in post on our whatsapp page. Yeah. You know, I'll, I'll post something in the group in the charts. Now. Um there are sites you can go to and look for. Um you can look for sort of like um conferences that still out. So you just um different ones. So you can just go to any of those slides, look for conferences on them, some of them you still have like actually I'm sure there will still be a number that accepting abstract. But the thing is you need to move as fast as you can if you have decided. OK, I want to apply for this, this year just like to maybe give like four or five hours for all the individual GD in that conference that are accept in um uh abstracts. And thank you. I think that's the last question. Any more questions before we be at the next program. But thank you so so much Kenny for taking time and being patient with us to answer all our questions. I mean, leadership is all about influence and your all out for empowering people to through your experience. Thank you so much for coming to speak with us today that we got. You have any words for today? Not as a speaker. Thank you. OK. I do have uh I would say um if you want to cerf for this program, so make sure you fill the feedback form. Um That's we, I send the chart right now. Um But uh what I would say is to be honest, I feel like this is doable. Um I'm not saying that as um because I'm inside and I'm like, yeah, can do. I'm just saying, I feel like if you, one reason I will partially answer that question, one reason I did go to uh um like go for radiology. I, so this my kind of uh self assessment things that works with me, looked at what I enjoy in radiology. So we met in generally and I found that radiologist ticked a number of my boxes and, um, I mean, a number of people who go for things that, um, that, uh, that if you like, uh, easy or, but the truth is very, even like when you ask and you do your research and all this place, they do have their heart things that, so it's just basically like to your heart, basically radio has the exams uh from what they said can be very um tasking. You need to read the law to stop or if it's something that works with you, um You feel like you enjoy long term because this is something we do for the rest of our lives. I say puts, well, yeah, I mean, if you don't really need me and I say put in the effort and do it, do do as much work. So in my position as the, so if you, if you have like such interest or even if it cost you interest, you just want to know, see the opportunities that are available, maybe do one or two research relating to radiology, um please um find, um find the time to join us when you, if you want to make sure you, you can ask questions. I, I want one group. I would say you should I go on the, I'll put you on the whatsapp group either today or tomorrow. Um A number, you can message to join the UK RST group that's a very valuable group to, to be a member of. It's sort of like um it's not just um focused on like Africa doctors. Like we are like everyone who is interested in radio special train. So they have a whatsapp group. If you want to apply this year, they have a whatsapp group. People ask questions there, there are a number of us have entered for this year last year. So a lot resources there too. So make sure you ask your questions either on we have on that group. Would I be happy to always like answer? So in the next two weeks on September 9th, we are going to be having um a program. It's just like a second part of this program where it's not just myself. Um We have two other people, the two people who will be joining us, I will be talking about different experiences, applying for specialty. I will be coming from someone who applied for outside the NHS and they will be giving the NHS all like this. They have to do um maybe the obstacles they made and the advice they will give you in the process. So just make sure and you keep an eye on it and will announce it on the group and also on um the um platforms, we announced this one also just keep an eye for it to be on Septe and the same platform. Thank you very much for me for um Oh yeah, I missed the question. Sorry. Does a post publication not me but has a do high and it's published to the European Society of Radiology counts towards the publication section. So to be I can sub sort of like public in that. But if he has a do I, I would say there is a very good argument for submitting that as a full time publication if you ask me. But uh like I said, I'm not the one maring for all this is uh I would just say, um if he looks like he, maybe he has like a 50% chance for a A I go, I say, go for it. If you don't qualify for it, they will let you know. But if you do, I mean, it helps, don't be, yeah, be, be truthful but don't be overly cautious when you're claiming for scores. If it's possible to get a um proper publication, fine, do it. But if not, yeah, focus on like the other parts where you can significantly improve. Like I said, try to aim for at least the third five. I feel I is just anecdotal but I feel like that was, that's like the basic UC this year for those who would quite, and which is what you want to do, especially when you want to be able to choose where you rank and yeah, that's it. OK. So everyone is saying? Thank you so much, Kenny for your time. Thank you for your presentation. We are very grateful to have you. Uh Thank you so much, everyone for joining us. I mean, you guys make the program rock. Thank you so much for coming this Saturday evening. I look forward to seeing you guys in two weeks at our next webinar where we'll still be talking about application process. All right, have a wonderful evening. Bye bye. Bye bye. Yeah. Yeah.