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Hi, everyone. Um I'm hoping you can hear me if you can't please drop a message in the chat. Um Sorry, we're running a little bit behind. Um, well, maybe just give it another minute. So until five past just for more people to join. Um, so yeah, hopefully you don't mind waiting another another minute and then we can start, not hoping to see the slide again. Mm. Ok. Um, we'll probably get started because I don't wanna keep everyone for too long. I know it's Monday, Monday evening for us. Um, but it's a Tuesday morning for our speakers today. So we have Doctor Lim and Doctor Buckley who a good friends of mine who have very, very kindly agreed to deliver this talk on moving to New Zealand for your F three F four F five, whatever year it may be. Um, it's the third talk in our, um, f three slash time out of training, um kind of season, so to speak. Um So I will hand over to Fraser and R to tell you all about the process of Mo moving to New Zealand and what you can expect when you get out there. Um, any questions, pop them on the chat or throughout the talk or at the end completely up to you. It's over to you guys. Thank you so much for joining us. I feel like I'm on the radio. You're welcome. Cool, thanks now. Um Hey guys, um my name is Fraser. Um and we're just gonna give you a little talk about what we found since we've moved to New Zealand and hopefully a bit about sort of helping you guys move out here as well, helping you guys make a decision to move out here. Um, so yeah, let's get started and I'm just gonna say apologies in advance if I let a Fraser do most of the talking or fall asleep because I've just finished the night shift, but I'll do my best. So. Um, yeah, uh like I said, I, with Rose and re er, we moved here about two years ago now, um in October 2022 after going to med school in Sheffield, um, we did our F one F two in sort of West Yorkshire Leeds area. Um, and then sort of straight after two months into F three, we came into, er, we came to Waikato, er, and I've been working in the emergency department as a registrar for the past two years. Um, and, and I did, yeah, I did a couple of other jobs, did oncology for three months and obs Andy for six months and then I was lured to Ed, um, with the promise of a paired roster, which they're quite good at doing, um, on Ed. So I've been working with Fraser for the last year, year and a bit, which has been good and any questions you guys have just pop them in the chart, we'll chat the chart probably at the end, er, after we've done a little bit of chatting and, um, try and go through everything, er, answer any questions you guys have. Um, but yeah, feel free to pop them in there. Um, so a few questions that we're gonna try and help you with. Sort of why, why, why move, what's the point in moving, um, where to go? Because New Zealand is a surprisingly big country, even though it's very, very small on the map. Um, we'll give you a few bit, a bit of information about sort of documents. You need things that you need to prepare for. Um, when you make the move a little bit about what working out here is like, um, with what our rotors do, how pay works, how to get our medical licenses. Um, working in medicine, what some of the difference are, um, between the UK, they will be very e specific cos that's where we've been for the last year. Um, and then hopefully the things to do outside of work, which is probably our favorite bits about living in New Zealand. Uh, the photo on the right is, that's that's our, that's our local lake that's about like a kilometer. Um, that's about a kilometer west of us. Um, and that was our, um, balloon fiesta, the Waikato Balloon Fiesta, which sort of try survival Bristol. Probably not on that level. Um, but it was a pretty good experience in the morning. We're gonna answer questions at the end. Um, so I think everyone's got their own reasons for why you might want to make a move. But for us, um, we were the year that graduated during COVID, er, back in 2020. Um, and we didn't really get a break from going from med school into F one F two. we went and worked straight into the, on those COVID wards didn't, wasn't necessarily our favorite thing. Um, they were a trial by fire. So I think both of us were very ready for a break. Um, and to try something new and neither of us really knew what specialty we wanted to get into. Um, and then we came out here and you don't have to be into surfing, but surfing's a really good reason to come to New Zealand. Um, lo there's loads of places, beaches in general, nice beaches. Um, for mon money is also a potential reason to move. I think your fine amount of pay is slightly better here. Um, I've heard the UK local market is a bit drier than it used to be. Um, you will find other jobs that make you more money, but it's, um, a very comfortable, um, sort of salary and lifestyle out here. Um, definitely come if you're looking to try something new, if you're a particularly adventurous person. Um Kiwis love all outdoor activities, surfing, hiking, running, swimming. We've been able to do all those things, um, on our way around the North Island and, uh, a bit of the South Island as well. Um, and I'm sure that some of you when you come out here will probably be weighing up whether to come to New Zealand or Australia. Um, from what we've heard from sort of anecdotally from our friends. I don't really know anyone who's gone to either place and not had a good time. Um, but we've just got a little comparison of a few very loose comparisons between, um, Australia and New Zealand. I think both of which are very sort of valid options to go and do. Um, so we are paid less in New Zealand than you are paid in Australia. Um, something to note, but the DHB S reimburse us a lot more. So all our licenses, all our indemnity, um is all paid for, um, all our portfolios. Um, to keep those up to date, we have to use like an external, external. I think it's an American system. So we have to pay subscription fees to them, but that's all paid for by and recovered by the DHB. Um, we have like quite big courses and study budgets. And as long as you're doing a course that's on your sort of on your portfolio of courses that you need, that you can do as part of your job. Um We can, uh we can always, you can always get money for them. Um It's not as hot. If you do wanna go to 40 degrees heat, then New Zealand is not a place for you. Um But I would still say that, you know, particularly where we are, we get consistently in the summer. We're between 28 and 30 every day and there's normally not very much rain, so it's not exactly like bad weather out here. Um, yeah, and the winters are very mild, I think. II don't know why, but I really felt that New Zealand was similar to the UK climate. It, it is not, it is so much better and I actually think, yeah, if you're trying to avoid too hot or you have shitty skin like me, then actually New Zealand is a better option. Um, and definitely no, no snakes at all. Um, that's the main reason Fraser didn't wanna go to. Yeah, that was quite a big reason actually that was quite, quite important. Um, but yeah, it's a little bit less going on. It is a little bit more rural Taylor Swift didn come here, which is pretty gutting but, you know, s some big artists still come here. Um, Hozier, er, coldplay. You will still get your fix of culture. UK comedians also seem to really like coming to New Zealand and Australia. So you'll get those in the summer months as well. I think they come for a holiday. I think it's easier to travel around New Zealand as well. Like the, the Van Life here is strong. You can easily get all around both islands, whereas Australia is just so big, you end up having to fly more. So I think you actually get a lot of traveling. You can see most of New Zealand. So you want to move to New Zealand. So great decision. Um, we hope that if you, you guys do choose to move, um, you have a really similar experience to us and a lot of our friends that we've had out here, we've had an amazing, amazing time. Um, the best place to start looking for a job would be from our side would be kiwi health jobs. Um, there's a link at the bottom. Um, but if you just type into Google, it's usually the first hit that comes up. Um, most hospitals, uh, advertise for the registrar jobs or sho jobs that start in January basically. Um, cos that's when the New Zealand changeover is, uh, and those jobs come out in May June. So if you're planning or if you are planning to come out, er, and you're in your f two year. So sort of start end of FF two sort of just around your A RCP. That's the time to sort of start looking at Kiwi health jobs. Um, um, that would be an aim for January quite a lot of hospitals. However, do regularly advertise for gaps that they have. Um, especially for registrar positions which sort of come and go and are a lot more, sort of like when there's a gap when there's an availability, um, R EDI know, is always looking for people to come out here. Um, they basically, if you emailed them, I think they would be like, um, they would have a look into it and see when you could have a start date. Um, and then I think the main thing that you need to think about when you come to New Zealand is sort of where do you wanna go? And, um, just laid my side. So, New Zealand's still quite a large place but it's got a way small of a population than, um, the rest of, er, then somewhere like the UK. Although geographically it's not that dissimilar, um, there's only 5 million people living here and 1.5 of them live in Auckland. Um, Hamilton's the fourth largest city in New Zealand and we've got 100 and 90,000, which is arguably, which is absolutely tiny when you compare it to sort of living in the UK. And you've got, you know, quarter million hair, half a million hair. Um, we're about an hour and a half south of Auckland. Um, but, uh, you've got availability in most of the big cities. I say big cities, that's about 60,000 people. Plus most of those cities will have a hospital. Um, and they will be looking for registrars or house officers. Um, usually throughout the year we really like it out here. It's been really nice, really rural, a really different sort of pace of life. Um, but, yeah, have a little think about sort of big city or sort of a more rural lifestyle. Um, when we came out here we got offers from, er, a place called Fre, er, up in the north, er, and the PLA and the Rotorua as well as well as, um, as well as, er, Hawke's Bay. Um, but we chose to come to Hamilton, um, and we'll give you a little bit of reasons in a bit. Um, the other places that are worthwhile if you have a look at a map, er, sort of ba, uh, Bay of Plenty, Tauranga. Um, Whan is a really popular, um, place as well. Really nice weather, really nice beaches. Um, Gisborne on the other side is, is probably one of the most difficult to access points in New Zealand. It's about six hours from us, seven hours from Auckland. Um, it's got a population of, sort of under 60,000. Um, but you cover that whole sort of peninsula that goes out there, which is a really rural, um, sort of group of, uh, people who sort of have very little healthcare access. Um, and that's really something quite different out there. Um, a lot of people really like Hawke's Bay. We've got, had a lot of friends who go down Hawke's Bay and love it. Um, because it's a wine region. There's amazing, like, walks food, wine, like everyone. Absolutely. Who goes down Hawke's Bay absolutely loves it down there. Um, Wellington and Christchurch are probably the two other big cities as well. Both really worthwhile trips and, um, amazing places to go. Um, but it wouldn't be our talk if we didn't give a little plug to Hamilton. Um, and w and uh Wai Castle area. So, uh, the reasons we love, um, we love the Tron, we're about 45 minutes from Hobbiton. Um, which when you start to go to is your like local tourist destination does, does start to lose its appeal. But if you've only been on, if you only go once, it's a very worthwhile trip, um, our west coast surf is 45 minutes drive away from us, but then we can make it able to the east coast in just over an hour so we can surf on either side. Um, it's a really green space even though apparently everyone will say that it's one of the most ugly parts of New Zealand, but we think it's still beautiful. Um, most Kiwis when they hear that we're working and living in Hamilton, just apologize to us and just say, we're really sorry, we're really sorry to hear that. Um, but it's a really nice central location. We're about two hours away from loads of, sort of touristy but also amazing sort of outdoor things to do. Um, going for walks, mountain bike trails, ski fields. Uh, they're all within a couple of hours. Um, we can fly from Hilton Airport down into Wellington and Christchurch. Um, and they've just announced that they're also doing flights to Gold Coast in Sydney next year as well. So you can still get around from, from our local place. We're only about an hour, hour and a half south of Auckland. So we're really not very far. It's really quite easy to get to and get around that area. Cool. Um, the other thing that you might be thinking of doing is, um, looking into a local agency. They are really useful. They have a lot of help in sort of, uh, sorting out your paperwork, finding your job. Um, they tell you exactly what you need and when, and they're usually really organized about it. Er, I've put a few, we didn't actually come out with a local, we did it ourselves but a lot of people that we know did, um, the top ones there are sort of a free that are commonly known, um, around New Zealand. So triple O, gets quite sends, seems to send quite a lot to Waikato and then globally skilled medical as well. Um, there used to be another one called Gold Standard, but they've, uh, I think they've stopped doing it now, but the DHB S pay them like a head hunter fee. So you shouldn't expect loads of fees from them to organize a job for you. Um, but they are very good for sort of filling the gaps in road in positions. So, if you specifically want to do something is say you wanna be a med Reg in Auckland or you want to be a house off in Hawke's Bay, you might be better off just applying to that job. Whereas if you cos if you apply to a local agency, what they'll do is they'll just send it out to a lot of different DH PS. But if you use a very specifically, I really want, um, I really want to come to New Zealand, er, and specifically work in this location, then, um, then usually they can, they're reasonably flexible about it. So the minimums for getting a job. So you need a CV. So if you're an f free this, this was very, this is very us and FF free specific. So you need a minimum, you just need your foundation jobs in medical school on it. Um, with Kiwi health jobs, you'll need to write a little cover letter as well. Um, so that's usually somewhere between 255 100 words, um, specific to the place that you're applying to um which will need to be. So if we're asking, we, we did a little bit of research about each place that we applied to um include it on our, on our um research. It just had a bit of understanding about what the hostel was and a little bit about what sort of the um area was like. No, I think I just literally changed the name of the hospital. I don't think I really, yeah, you can just also change the name of the hospital. That's fine. Um, some places will just offer you a job. Um, I was given job offers for Hawke's Bay and, er, the Lakes in Roto. Um, but we had interviews for, um, Hamilton and Fun. Um, they're usually very informal chats. So they, I was called over whatsapp by both consultants that wanted to interview me. Um, and there was a couple of interview questions in some of the interviews where they just sort of said, you know, what are your strengths? What are your weaknesses? You know, give me a time you've resolved conflict, um, whilst you're working in a department. Um, but most of the conversation was just asking us about sort of what we knew about New Zealand. Um, what that place was like, it was a great chance for them to sort of sell their place to, to us as well. Um, I would say that, you know, obviously if you are given an interview, like, go for it and have a chat. Um, you don't have to accept the job offer if they offer you one in the interview right away, you can just ask for some time to, to think about it. Um, but again, yeah, we'll be, it'll be very sort of specific to that. We've interspersed this, um, talk with just like some holiday picks just to keep everyone interested. And so it's not just uh infi overlaid, but this is really, er, at Mount Mongan, which is the beach about about an hour and a half from us. Um, down on the, down on the east coast, um, which you can just pop to very easily, good for a surf as well. Although it doesn't look very good though. It's a very flat day. So, um, documents you need, so it's worthwhile just getting these documents, sort of making sure you've got copies of them on your computer, um, and getting a few things sorted through that. So cover letter and CV. Um, another thing to know about CV is that Auckland has its own proforma that you fill in online, which is essentially the same information that you do it, you would put on your CV. But you have to use it using like Auckland's performer basically. Um, but they're downloadable online. Um, you'll need an Acro police certificate if you're moving from the UK specifically. Um, you'll need a GMC certificate. Um, and you'll need er, a licensed practice in the UK at the time with a certificate of good standing, which if you put it in on the GMC S website, they will, um, if you apply for one that gets sent directly to our Medical Council over here, so you'll never see the certificate that just gets sent straight away. Um, you'll need your F one F two FP CCS, um, a copy of your medical, medical degree. You'll need at least three references because that's how er, and they need to be contactable. So you need to have email address or phone for that as well. Um So some of them are very specific and say your free references need to be your last free clinical supervisors. Um What you'll find most people are is that you need free references from at at least free references from the last free jobs that you've had. Um So what sometimes we'll use is like you might use your, um specifically for F two S. Um You might say if you knew your clinical supervisor well, from that job, you might use your clinical supervisor but say you've got a spare slot and you had a job where you didn't really know anyone, didn't know loads of people, you might just put your educational supervisor in as your reference for that job and then get someone that you knew. Um So I had my educational supervisor was my reference for sort of like my middle job. Um, my clinical supervisor was my reference to my last job and I got another consultant from like an emer from the emergency department that who did as my like first job with F two to be my reference to that third job. So they u and they're usually pretty sort of reliable about, relaxed about that as long as you can get three people to be your reference. Is that what you have for references as well? Yeah, yeah, kind of the same. Um you'll need your passport um and you'll need uh to have evidence of your indemnity in the UK as well. You do have to pay for a lot of these things as well. Like it's obviously it's probably not the biggest expense, but I think I wrote down a few things like you, it was everything kind of to like the degree verification was $100. The visa was is $750. The MC NZ registration is $700. We had to get medicals including like a chest X ray and bloods cos we were staying for over a year that came to about $700. I can't remember exactly how much the police check was. Maybe another $100. So you will feel a bit out of pocket when you do all of that, but you do make it back quite quickly when you're running out here and a few things. So like our MC NZ was reimbursed by the DHB, but most DH PS now have relocation fees. So up to about $10,000 It is specific to each individual place but definitely sir, something to worthwhile ask them about at your interview. Um Is, do you have any relocation fees or relocation expenses? I think gare when we came fungi a offered to pay for our flights, but no 10 offered to pay for um all the other sort of stuff that we had invested in, in getting out here in the first place. So the system is slightly different to what you'll find in the UK. They operate on a post graduate year system. So a lot of people sort of will say, will be able to say what their post graduate year, er, is the transition from house office to registrar is much more informal and sort of when you feel ready and you take up a registrar, post and registrar job. Um, the sho registrar gap is smaller than what it is in the UK. Um, and especially for an emergency department for our US in our emergency department, we find that w when we work as a registrar, actually, our role isn't that different to what we do as a senior, um, senior House Officer back in the UK. Um, there's a lot of sort of crossover with that. I think the main difference is whilst you're a registrar in, in the emergency department are, you're sort of you're given equal priority, recess time, you're given sort of equal priority like on nights and that sort of thing. Um, but again, we aren't, we're not the expected person to be running the floor, sort of, we're not our way, like we're not the airway trauma specialist that has to be in the hospital at all times. Um, you'll find those who are more like your senior registers and advanced trainees. What you might find though if you came and did something like medicine whilst you're out here is that um whilst the step up to register on a um from sho is, is still not as big as what it is in the UK, um You might find that you and another F three are potentially the most senior people on call for medicine in the hospital. Um What we often find is that our SM OS or our consultants are very ready and happy to be called in when they are, when, when they're on call. Um I think your OMG consultants, they stay upstairs, don't they? Yeah, they do. But yeah, I would definitely say like ne D as Fraser said, it's, yeah, it's very similar between sho and registrars. But like when I did the medical jobs and ob and I would say it's more similar to the UK in the, in the job roles differing, you can, you can still technically be a registrar from F three, but I think it would be quite a hard step up and certainly for, and G you had to go through a kind of brief junior registrar role where, where you were supervised until you were able to do C sections and things like that. Like it was very different. Whereas I think Ed is kind of quite unique in, in the sense that it's very similar between the two because you're always, you've always got somebody more, more senior than you no matter what. So if you're happy to kind of take, take referrals and GP calls and have Ed referring you patients, then you're fine to be a registrar in that. But I would probably suggest if you weren't doing ed first to go for an sho job role first and then you can look to step up as you get a bit more experience in that job. Like if you wanted jobs in Gy, for example, um a little bit about sort of working privately. You don't, obviously, when we came out here, we only thought, you know, to New Zealand how that's the only place we could work for. Um you can work for private practice. Um but they are sort of, they're sort of few and far between. Um because a lot of private practice is consultant driven. Um So a lot of the juniors work in DHB is the vast majority of us. Um However, there are places such as like urgent care clinics that you can come and work the differences are that you might find that the pay scales and requirements that you use to upkeep your training and that sort of thing. You'll find that they might be different in, in private care, in the urgent care centers. Um And you'll be paid on a different scale to what we know and what we, and what we use. So, change over is the best is probably the best time to start in New Zealand because everyone's new, everyone's learning a new place. That's when your P gy ones become P gy two S and, and your med students become doctors for the first time. Um, the runs work. So end of Jan to end of um, July is run one and then July round to, um, Jan is run two for registrars. Um, and those are 66 months apart and house officers do free monthly rotations. Um And what you'll find is that there's a, there's always a two week overlap. So about registrars and house officers don't change on the same date. So house officers always change in the middle of the month and the registrars always change over at the end of the month. Um, but if you come out as sort of like a generic RM O sort of house officer registrar, um, you might find that most hospitals are pretty chill about when you start. So we started like end of October after, um, after a change over, obviously, the registrars weren't changing over for me. Um, but the house officers, er, had just changed over, um, for ra, but we were a little bit late to start that. Yeah. And I would honestly say, I don't know if it's the same in all hospitals, but I remember I was really stressed about missing induction. Um, and then I was just told, oh, that we do an induction most days, um, because they just constantly have people from the UK coming to fill in. So it is a lot more flexible than the UK. Um And if you want to change jobs, so once you get out here, if you're doing a run as a house officer, um, the easiest thing to do is go to an, go to the IR office and ask them, do you have any other runs, any other jobs that I can do, you'll usually be asked to select your options of runs as a house officer. So you'll say like, oh, so you'll be like, can I do your med, can I do, um, ob Gyne, can I do pediatrics? Can I do general surgery? And like, they'll try and match you as best. They can, obviously, they can't necessarily match everyone. But the next best thing to do is say, go to the armor office and say, hey, look, can I do this run? That's what I'm interested in as a registrar. You might find moving cross specialties as a registrar a little bit. Um, a little bit trickier because they're sort of your training grade group. Um, you will find that you probably have to fill in another job application and you have to take a slot on a reg shower. That's, there's a gap for, if you go into a high turnover job like Ed, then you'll find that you can probably start on the next run. Um, but if you're going to sort of a less high turnover job such as like pediatrics, you might find that you're waiting for a peds reg to leave before they say. Oh, yeah, we've got a gap available for a new registrar. Um, some, you can make the step back down to being a house officer if you said, like, you know, I want really, I'm interested in doing this. I know I've been working as a registrar in the emergency department, but I really wanna be a house officer in pediatrics. Um, and II did for a bit and they were really, yeah, they were really helpful. I just said I wanted a bit more peds experience and went from Ed just to do a bit of, um, peds as an sho and then went back to Ed. So they, they are a lot more flexible than in the UK. Uh And each R MA unit in each DHB is variably helpful. RR O unit is, they're ok. They're not bad. Um, but yeah, this is Tepaki sand dunes. This is up on the north, um, on the north coast kind of looks a bit, kind of looks a bit like you. Um They're just some, they're massive sand dunes that you can go. Um You can see the lines in the background of people, um, sand boarding down them as well. Um So yeah, another great thing to do while you're out in New Zealand. Um So GMC registration, um I'm guessing most of you guys on this talk will be like registered with the GMC. Um So obviously we spoke about your certificate of good standing that you'll need to send, I think it is free for the GMC to do it for, for UK, do New Zealand. Um And then what we did was we suspended our licenses, so we're still on the register. Um We don't have an active license to practice medicine in the UK. Um We, when we, our end plan is to return to the UK. So when we return, we will have to apply to go back on like reactivate our licenses, but it's different to being sort of like struck off a register or something like that, um which you can apply to me. Um But we wouldn't really recommend it, it sort of does close that door to go back to the UK. We still have to pay a attention thing um because the GMC um has to keep our name on, on their list. So we pay them about 40 lbs per year. Um which obviously is much less than your re validation fee, uh in sort of 400 lbs a year. Um And if you do decide to keep an active license, you'll have to meet all of the GMC requirements to keep your license basically. So you'll still have to do your UK based portfolio as well. Um So we made a decision to suspend our license. Um And that has been sort of, that has made it a lot easier. We don't have to have a re validation process. We just have to focus on doing our keeping it to our New Zealand Medical Council. Um And it is react like you can just reactivate it when you go back. That's not a problem. Ok. Um So our equivalent is Medical Council of New Zealand. Um And when you come out here for the first time, you'll need to come on a six month provisional license. Uh Everyone comes out here on a six month provisional license when they first get here. Um And all your fees will be reimbursed by your D HP. You ha have to work in a job under the supervision of someone, but you should expect your D HP to give you a supervisor. So you should expect them to you. You should have a supervisor either in your department or visit like Waikato has a, like a generic supervisor who sort of supervises all the um new UK grads and they do all your forms and that sort of thing. Um Once you're signed off after six months, um you'll be a fully registered doctor. So you have to fill another form on MC NZ. Um say apply for full registration and they get another, they get a consultant to sign it. Once you're fully registered, you're free to move around hospitals more at your own sort of own fer own volition. Basically. Um If you don't enter a training program, uh you will need to keep a portfolio. So we use a system called Inpractice, um, um, which is, you'll find, it's, it's reasonably similar to a Horus F one F two portfolio. Um, except you don't have to do your dos and you don't have to do your mics. Um, you find and you don't ha and you don't have to do a tab, I think for minimum requirements, something like 20 hours of teaching and four meetings with, um, four meetings with a college group and then, um, 10 hours of, sort of like a peer review. So either chatting or chatting with consultants or getting some like, validated feedback about your work. Um, which departments generally are very good at organizing. They sort of know that that's part of that, that's what you have to do. Er, and what you'll find is when you land in New Zealand for the first time because they used to make you attend in person, but you still have to be in New Zealand, um, before you get your, to get your foot to get your license sorted out, you'll have to attend a meeting with MC NZ over Zoom. Er, and that's just a, um, identity verification check. So you'll need your passport. You'll need, um, you'll need a copy of all your forms, er, and you'll need a, er, I think you should, you need to carry a copy of your license practice as well. Uh, from what we can remember two years ago now. So we also have two unions whilst we're out here. Um, it's worthwhile just having a note about it. Um, there was a split about 10 years ago, um, due to sort of disputes about pay. Um, so our two unions are the New Zealand Resident Doctors Association versus the specialty trainees of New Zealand. Um, both of them have very obvious websites and it's a good idea to check their Mecca um, before which is sort of their, their minimum requirements and their sort of pay scales. They have different pay scales. Um, and if you don't have an option or you want to decide when you get here, you'll be put on the contract that the majority of the RM Os in your specialty are already on. So, if you're so as a general, very generally, the vast majority of medical trainees are with the NZ RDA and the vast majority of surgical trainees are with stones. Um, the NZ RDA pays slightly less but they have more limits on the hours worked. So you can only do 10 days in a row. Whereas Stones, you can actually do a 12 day stretch. We'll get onto the rotors in a little bit and explain to you a little bit about what's going, what's going on with rotors. Cos I know those numbers sound a little bit. Well, why is that a thing? Um, before we were coming out of here for a more your life. Um, when you 1st, 1st get here, but we'll, we'll go through Rotas in a second. This is, uh, this is a picture of Cape Raina. Um, that's the most northern tip of, er, that's the most northern tip of New Zealand, er, very worthwhile trip. It's sort of two hours up, um, from the nearest town to get up there, but very worthwhile trip, really beautiful place. Um, has lots of, sort of, uh cultural meaning as well. So, if you're coming out here, definitely head up that way. So this is, this is literally my rota from August. Um, so this is what I would, this is a typical month for me, um, versus very specific to working in the emergency department or ano the other place that does regular shift pattern is ICU. Um, and as you can say, I'm not a work a huge amount. We don't, we don't go in that often. We do sort of nine hour shifts. Um, that's our, that's our baseline regular. Um, what you'll find is that a few specialties are sort of sat are a little bit behind on sort of the shift work, passing them the rotors. Um, really, I don't know if you want to talk about the, the house off the road or what that might look like. A bit more. Yeah, it was quite different from Fraser's Roster. I noticed when we started, I think he was totaling around 34 hours a week or something like that and I was on 54. Um, so it's significantly more hours that you do when you're on a medical job. Um, the, the rotor was generally, it was day shifts. Monday through Friday with normally it would be either one or two long days and the long days here. Um, rather than the kind of 12.5 hour shifts. If I remember correctly in the UK, they're 14.5 hours. Um, so, yeah, kind of eight till 1030. Um, which felt long. Um, and yeah, within that you would do, um, 10 day stretches. So, kind of. Yeah, Monday through Friday work, the weekend, the weekend would be long days and then you'd be on days the Monday to Wednesday afterwards with normally a long day in the, in the previous week as well. Um, they only happened, I think it was roughly every 6 to 8 weeks, something like that, those 10 day stretches. So they weren't frequent. Um, but again, because I was with the RDA rather than stones, then at least it was only 10 days. Whereas stones, um, you can do up to 12 days, which I didn't fancy. Um, so, yeah, I think, I think basically it was quite similar to the UK in terms of the total number of hours. But it's that balance of, obviously I had more evenings and weekends off. Whereas in Ed we do work a lot more, um, evenings and weekends. But it's quite fun when you're out here because so many UK doctors are in Ed, you kind of end up all being off, you know, for a morning surf or brunch or it doesn't really matter if you work the weekend because you have your Mondays and Tuesdays off, which are good for travels and things like that. But, yeah, certainly you do a lot more hours not doing Ed. Um, and another thing to know is if you're on the RDA contract and you're doing a 10 day stretch, you'll always get sort of a four day weekend either at the start or the end of that 10 day stretch because they have to give you sort of two RDA S plus your weekend off. Um, so if you take leave, you can get yourself a week off for sort of like three days, three days of leave during, during that period, if they've, if they've got gaps, um, which is another sort of like, popular thing that's done, but you'll, you will get about four day, four day weekend, um, stretch on the flip side of things. Oh, another thing to say actually, which I forgot to put on this is, um, if you see a job that's called relief, um, then it kind of means like you, you get paid extra, um, for being on kind of short, short notice relief. So you might get your roster kind of moved around more. Um It depends on the exact rules of the specialty. Some of them are short notice relief. So you might be caught up on the day to change your shift. Um But some of them aren't actually short notice relief and you just put on as an extra and you still get paid more. It's a bit weird, but just to be aware that that's kind of what the term means and it might be good to just clarify exactly which type of relief it is, but certainly you get paid a lot. I had a great time when I was on relief. Um Yeah, it's definitely worth noting about sort of um when you're a reliever, we'll sort of go into these when it comes to sort of our categories of pay. These are our current pay scales. So this is what you can expect to earn. Um as, as you come to, as you come to New Zealand. So um we have so the house office pay scales on the right. Registrar pay scales on the left. Um, what you'll find is that, um, even though it gives you the hours per week, um, that you need to work a lot of, uh, different jobs have sort of promote, like they are paid above because of the out of hours rate. So, for an ed, even though we actually do like the minimum number of hours a week, which is like around like 40 hours a week, we're paid at a category C level because of our out of hours requirement. So even though we do 40 we're paid like we're doing for like 55 all relief jobs. So if you do like a gen med relief job or Genser relief job are paid at C A pay, even though you probably won't be doing those 65 hours a week. Um Most of those jobs don't involve you doing 65 hours a week. I think that O and G relief job was basically the same as everyone else has wrote it, right? But it was a, it was a CAS, it was a cae job. So like you will be paid. So they get paid at much higher scale because theoretically they have a first point of contact that they go to when someone takes leave or someone does this cos you have slightly less flexibility. Um What you might find as well is that um in every hospital there's like a generic pool of relieving doctors So there are doctors who, um, sort of, they'll do, they'll be in the relief pool for medicine. So you might do medical relief. Um, and that's what they talk about when you say, like, do you want a job as a reliever? Um, they're all paid at, uh, higher pay scales as well. So they're sort of on the co pay. Um, but what you might find is like a reliever. Med reg is that you actually, you know, you might be, you will do cardio one day and then you'll do hematology another day, you might do gastro another day and you'll be filling the gaps of the registrars in that, in that position. Um, and, and, and the same for the Sh Os actually. So you don't really, so the disadvantage of that is that you don't really get a team, you don't get to know anybody. You don't know really where you're working tomorrow. So it's a bit kind of a bit of a mishmash and you might find that a bit stressful. But yeah, it is very good money. So you could do it for three months. Um, so you'll find that stones pay slightly higher, but with, with sort of the caveats of that, you probably will be working more hours a week. Um, you don't get free lunch, which is, um, something that you get as part of a NZ RDA. All our lunches are paid for. Um, so for banking. So for your, for your, like, hey, you need to have a New Zealand bank account to work in New Zealand. You can't pay the, the DPS won't pay into an international bank account. Um, you also need it for your, um, I ID, which is your tax number. Um, if you don't have a tax number, by the time you start, you'll be taxed at a rate of 45% which is obviously much higher than normal income tax rate. Um, and it's not reimbursable. So it's worthwhile jumping on banking as soon as you get to New Zealand. Um, we opened it with B NZ. So we were so Bank of New Zealand, we were able to open it, open an account from home, uh, back in the UK. And then we showed up to one of the, um, to an outlet here and we were given, we were given a card and said, activate your bank account. Here you go. You're, you're sort of away. And we were, um, we, our cards were already sent there, so they were already ready for us. Um, another thing to note is that eftpos or using credit cards and contact lists. Um, there's a lot of places will put on a 1.1 0.8 to 2% surcharge because that's how much the, um, the card companies charge them to use credit cards and contact list. So we found that we've gone back to sort of doing our chip and pins where we put our, where we put our bank card in and put, and have to go and put the pin number in because everywhere else, every, everywhere will give you about 2%. Unless you're sort of a really big sort of Cross New Zealand Corporation. Um, just a thing to note about when you get here. It's always very sad when you forget and you tapap and you lose those precious $2. This is the view from Mount Tai in the morning. So um we're at the bottom um or about halfway up Mount Tana. Um and that's the view all the way across the North Island to the other mountain. So central mountain rope um is the big one in the middle that you can see. And then as you go left, you can see Mount Naro Ho which is um Mount Doom in Lord of the Rings. Er and then sort of a flat of one over there, Tonga Raro, which is one of the like great walks that you can do to do the Tonga road crossing. Um a really nice like six hour hike, but he's done a lot five times, six times, um a little bit of annual leave. So as standard, you can expect 30 days of um annual leave per year, you get lu days as well. So there are 12 bank holidays in New Zealand, um which are paid at 1.5 times pay. So if you work it, you should expect to be paid slightly more. Um, if you work it or you're supposed to be on a registered day off, you'll get that day as a lo day in Ed, which again is very specific as a rule because you're on your, a registered day off. If you're not working it, you get all 12 loo days whether you work them or not. Um, which is quite a nice little bonus. We kind of see it as we get 42 days of annual leave, you just have to take them in slightly different like categories and fashions basically. But, um, they are also generally very easy about taking on your leave. So if you're on a night or late, you can take leave on that. They will, it's generally the hospital's responsibility to find a reliever to do your work. Um, so you're able to take leave on your nights and on your late shifts. Um, in like, try maybe don't take leave on like every single night shift you do. It's kind of like a little bit poor form. But in general, um, they will like, if you want to take leave for a certain period of time, it happens to be when you're working nights, you shouldn't need to swap after that unless they're sort of really desperate and you want to do a hospital a favor. Um, if you gi if you give them a leave form, they need to apply within two weeks. So they need to, they need to either like, accept or decline or work, find a way to work around your leave in, in two weeks. Um And if you use a new day, it ha it essentially if you give them more than two weeks notice for a normal day and four weeks notice for a late or a weekend, it has to be granted theoretically, the DH PS will try and get around it. But the, if you are part of the union and you have strong union reps, they, they will, they will, um, help you out with that and they will advocate for you guys as well. Um, another thing to note about when you get here, um, is, is probably not at the top of your, um, list of things, but just a little note about pension plans. Um, it's a private system for pension plans out here. The most popular company for doctors is medical insurance society or mass. Um, the employers contribute 3% into your, um, pension plans as well. Er, if you become a resident in New Zealand, you can open a Kiwisaver which is sort of similar to like a, a lyer in the UK and your employer contributes another 3% into that. But you can only do that once you're, uh, if you're a resident in New Zealand. So if you come on a working visa, then you can't do that. Um, you can take out a lump sum when you leave the country and just say, like I'm leaving the country, I'm no longer working in New Zealand and take all the money that you've put in there as a lump sum. Or you can access that at 65. Um If you're planning on staying long term in New Zealand, it's all tax free. So if you put the money you put into there won't be taxed. Um And you get obviously that contribution as well, but that's something that you have to set up by yourself. If you don't have it set up, then they'll just pay you the money. Um So a little bit about working, doing medicine in New Zealand. Um This is actually our local beach, this is Raglan um Narino Beach, which is uh nai means big wave in uh to mare. So it is different. Um Your final amount of medicine is slightly, is in terms of what we see is slightly different. All these stats are from FA AA. Um And our like office of like statistics basically, um you might find that, you know, a few more chronic medical conditions like diabetes are slightly more prevalent than in the UK, not massively. So, um they, it is more prevalent o over here. Um But again, the management of that is, is very similar. Um one that they are very big on in New Zealand, um and affects like, you know, me and re on a very daily basis working in the emergency department is group a strep. Um, uh, we have much more frequent infections and, you know, the fact that we reg, like in a year we expect, you know, 30 people to die of group a strep in a year is, you know, much higher in the UK where I think, you know, after two or three, after two or three people, um, there was two or three deaths secondary to group a strep that, you know, they really clamped down on it. And was that when there was a, a penicillin crisis in the UK? And then we ran out of pen and amoxicillin, something along those lines. Um, you can expect to find people with complications of having glupa tract infection. So, rheumatic heart disease where they come in with endocarditis where they come in with, um, mechanical valves or in heart failure. But in their twenties, you can expect to find that regularly in New Zealand. Um, I've also put on up our immunization rates. Our immunization rates are not fantastic. Um, there is a disconnect with health care. Um, again, this is something that affects me and really on a very daily basis working in the emergency department, um, making sure people's sort of, you know, tetanus is up to date and that sort of thing. And even part of our or even within the emergency department is, is to actually like, we sometimes won't opportunistically update people with vaccinations when they come in. So if someone's come in, if the kids come in with a wound, um, and they're overdue for their, um, preschool booster, um, we will give it in the department. Um, and we have a really good, um, particularly in, like I say, we have a really good, er, immunizations, catch up service as well so they can make contact with families and go round to them with the vaccines. Um There is a difference in health population. Um this, this visa statements or from um to f er, our Maori and Pacific people do have historically high rates of things like group, a strep, er, they are in, they can be in areas of more socioeconomic deprivation. Um It's really important in New Zealand to have an understanding of other people's culture. Um and have an understanding of, you know, what people need to do as part of your portfolio. You'll need to do two hours of cultural awareness learning per year. Um that can be done sort of with e-learning, that can be done with sort of like, uh there's some courses on it as well. Um And the l and everyone, almost everyone in New Zealand speaks is able to speak English to some extent, um who lives here. But um learning a little to um does go a long way. We still have, you know, we have consultants who regularly, er, introduce themselves uh by saying cio. Um, and you know, we all know a few words just to like, help, help with that communication as well. Um, and have a bit of respect and understanding for it. So you do pick it up though. You don't need to. No, don't worry about, don't worry about anything. Don't, don't worry about learning a before you get here. Um, you might find that we're as a small country on the other side of the world. We do miss some drugs. Um, these are all from Pharmac. So that, that's our medicine comp uh like the National Medicine Company. So they bring in all the drug, they do all the supply. We, we're running out of adrenaline, which is really bad in the emergency department. You should like, you kind of imagine that, like why we run out of, um, a, uh flexus adrenaline, we run it. Um We're low on Comox and we're low on gentamicin. Um There are all, there is always a supply, something that is causing a supply issue down the drug chain. It happens in the UK. Um But you might find that you see, and you have more connect with it whilst you're working at a hospital in New Zealand. Um It's, it's just because we're a small country on the other side of the world and we don't have huge productions of our drugs. You might find that drug names are a little different as well. Um So we use, so you might find that the most common ASE inhibitor in New Zealand is something called quinapril er, instead of ramipril. Um you might find we use metoprolol instead of bisoprolol. Um Also metoprolol is dosed in 23.7 fives. So I don't know who came up with that or why they would come up with dosing strategies in 23.7 fives. But if you know you're 23.75 times stable like off by heart, that'll like stand you in quite good stead. Um We use predniSONE instead of prednisoLONE. Um and we use Felodipine rather than amLODIPine. It's all just, it's all just words at the end of the day. Do you know what I mean? Like in, in terms of like what we actually use with the drug we use them for very similar or in fact, the exact same indications that you use them in the UK. We use them at the exact same redness that you used in the UK. We just have to write a different word down. So something that, you know, once you get here, once you prescribe a few times you'll get into in no time in general. Our jobs that we do on a day to day basis of the medicine that we do is very similar. We work in a tertiary care trauma center. We have very similar access to procedures to medications um to ICU er, our pathways and requirements are very, very similar to what you would do back home. Um, and it's usually a lot more of a medicine in really rural hospitals which typically operate just consultant led. And typically those consultants may well be a solo practitioner. So they may be the only person in that hospital overnight and that might consist of um, an emergency department and a ward or something like that, like a single sort of 20 bed ward. Um The management is slightly different. We have our t hospitals which are very little hospitals on the er outskirts of Waikato. Um And most of those are staffed by a solo practitioner overnight. Um They, you might find that medicine has to differ a lot more over there because you have to do things, you know, prepare for transfer and that sort of thing. Um It's similarly to applying so similarly to working sort of in a really rural job out, out in sort of Scotland and having to sort of fly people out, get people out of the hospital who need more urgent intervention. Um I remember speaking to one of the consultants in, in emergency er department, he said, oh, it was, you know, it's all well and good learning how to manage an aortic dissection, right? Um And you can find out about a patient's having a type a aortic dissection and needs urgent cardiothoracic intervention. He said that's great, but the helicopter's now eight hours away. So you have to keep that patient alive for eight hours. So he said that's when you really find there's a difference and he sort of, he was talking from a case that he managed, you know, two weeks before. Um, and he was, and he was saying, you know, that is, that is when it gets quite different um in Waikato in general. Well, I definitely feel that is that we have a very similar access to services that we, that you would find in when, where we, where we we worked in the UK. Yeah, I think it's a very similar size hospital but as Fraser says, it's kind of what, what you wanna get out of it. Some of our friends in smaller places like up in Northland spend like what our friend doing and going there did, did a lot of helicopter rides and things like that. And then similarly you might not get as much exposure to kind of the big scary stuff because they're just transported straight away to like a bigger tertiary center. Um But yeah, I think that's the same, same size as what we did for our F one F two. So it doesn't feel very different. Another note about sort of the way private practice and the way a health system works is that we generally have access to all the notes from our specific hospital. But private practice is much more prevalent than it is in the UK. You can expect a lot of patients to have private health insurance. Uh, and a common question when we've sort of said, you know, you need to go on to wait list. You need to go and do this is, can I get it done in private? Um, to which the answer is almost inevitably like you can, if you want to, um, you won't be able to see what's happened in private. So you'll have to rely on them having copies of either discharge letters or, um, knowing what's happened to them. So, if they've had an angiogram, um, from cardio, from a cardiologist done in private practice or a surgery done in private practice, you won't have any records of that. We do, however, have a nationally linked prescribing system. So, anyone who's given any drug to that person, um, will, it will all be on a single system. So we have access to that. But in terms of actually being able to say, ah, like we've seen, like you've had this echo done, you've had this angio done or you've had this surgery done, you will have to ask the patient, those sorts of things. Most patients who have had things done in private are reasonably good about having their, you know, they'll have a discharge letter, they'll have some, they'll have a letter from a consultant explaining what's happened. Um, yeah. Um, working. This isn't a patient. This is our road coordinator. Um, this was for our promotional video for wai, um, we love it. You know, we, we, our team's amazing. Um, our nurses are, um, associate health healthcare professionals are all amazing. Um, they're a really, really friendly bunch, er, specifically for Red. There's about 28 registrars. I think about 90% of them are British. Eee. Um, we're all, we all came out here for the same reason and we're all on holiday. Um, and we all like, are at very similar grades. Um, so we found it really easy to make friends. Um, and a lot of people come out here and they find, oh, half of you are British. Oh, yeah. So it's really easy to make friends friends really quickly out. Um, so we really enjoyed that bit. We do really like the Kiwi people, by the way, it's just, we haven't had a chance to meet that many of them when, when nice, say workforce is British. Um, specifically cos that's sort of where, like, you know, where we've been working in the last year, a little bit about emergency medicine in New Zealand. We have a lot of fun in our department. Um, we've got a really, we've got an amazing sort of wide range of consultants who have got different exposures from being like a hens consultant, doing helicopter medicine in the UK and being on, um, what TV show was it? 2024 hours in A&E. Yeah. One of the consultants on 24 hours in A&E to, um, we've got American consultants who did all their training, all their careers in America who came out when they were in their mid sixties to try something new, try something different. Um, who, you know, they do think they write things that we've never seen before. Like a full pros MDM of what they think is going wrong with the patient. Um, at the time. Um, it's really procedure heavy in the, in the emergency department out here. So you can expect sort of, you know, doing emergency intubations, chest drains, outlines, um, central lines if they're needed. Um, I think I did an outline on my night shift like two nights ago and my last intubation was last week. Um, and emergency physicians are sort of like in general considered the center point for sort of like emergency crash procedures. You'll find that like, you know, L PS and stuff are an emergency department procedure. So if you think someone's got meningitis or you think someone's having a sub attack, um, you might find that you'll be the person doing the LP. So again, we've had loads of exposure to, um, procedures. Um Pocus is something that sort of, again, maybe specific, maybe a bit, a bit more specific to wat. Um, they love ultrasound machines. Um, so sort of we're sort of getting trained to do AAA scans, um, particularly ea scans and then, um, once you graduate, possibly when you go on to things like emergency echo scans. Um, and we've got a really well supported department. So there's an S ML on the floor from 8 a.m. till 2 a.m. and even when they're off the floor, there's a senior registrar or a moss, which is like an associate specialist, um, on the floor. So there's always a, on that. Ok. Uh, a bit over time. Oh, yeah. Sorry, guys, if you do need to leave, that's ok. But last few sides on being outside of work, they're all our, they're all our holiday photos. This is a bit where we get to brag about the holidays that we've been on. Um So top left is our seven lights. Oh, no. So I don't mean it's gone. No, I think that's just something. Ok. Um Top left seven lights, top right is uh local waterfall bridal veil then that's down in Wanaka and Hooker Falls. Um So getting around, we generally recommend a car. Um The public transport's pretty terrible in New Zealand. Um There are a few in city buses never take a train in New Zealand unless it's a tourist train. Honestly, you're just, you, you'll, you'll, you'll regret it. We really regret it after a first six hour flight. It was not the thing I wanted to be doing. Um You can often fly between most big cities. So Auckland Wellington and Christchurch you can fly and most small cities you can fly to them. Um Camper vans are really popular choice. So getting in a camper van and using like camp fire or something like that is, is super popular or looking on Facebook marketplace to buy a van whilst you're out here. Um, people seem to love um, things to do. So if you like wine, New Zealand makes lots and lots of wine, it's a huge wine region. Um Running, surfing, hiking, they're all really popular things. Um If you like birds in particular, New Zealand's got a particularly strong bird wildlife population, um, and a particularly strong marine wildlife population. So the top left up there is a queue we saw in the wild up near Auckland. Um, top right is a stingray uh out in Gisborne. Um And then bottom left is us at a winery called Mud Brick on Waiheke Island. Uh And it's all right. That's got Nat An in it actually. Um, that's uh Tonga crossing. Er, that's when Nat was, we saw Nat in New Zealand and when we did the Tonga crossing, which is that great walk together and Mount Nara or Mount Doom in the background there. Um, so skiing, amazing in New Zealand. There's six major ski fields. Definitely a worthwhile trip to do surfing again. Raglan Mount Gana, Waihi Beach. There's a whole surf highway down in New Plymouth and Taranaki. Um You can, it's one of the few countries you can ski and surf on the same day, especially if you live in Christchurch. We're really close to the Pacific Islands. So we have great links to Fiji, Samoa, Tonga Cook Islands, Tahiti. We just got back from Samoa a couple of weeks ago. Um and Australia as well. You can get to most big cities in Australia. So we've gone across Sydney, gone across to Melbourne. Um and you can get direct flights to Asia. So Asia, Singapore and West Coast USA as well from New Zealand. Um This was gonna be a video but we'll, we'll skip the video. Um But I've got the link down at the bottom. Um If you wanna watch it us, if you are sick of listening to us, don't watch the video because we're in it and we're talking in it. So don't bother. But this is where else we can learn where you can learn more. So Kiwi Health Jobs is your site to go to for your application. Uh There's a Facebook group. So E in Australia and New Zealand, that's the place that we found to sort of get generic advice. You'll get someone who's been from every hospital going, giving you advice from there. Um Mess another good site to use if you wanna have a little look around on there. Um And then the definitive doctor June doctors guy, that's what we used when we came out here. It's regularly updated. I think it was updated last year. Um written by like two like really good doctors who seemed to who like really knew their stuff and it's like completely comprehensive even it's better than what we've given you probably. Um, and, uh, it'll tell you, you know, exactly what you need to do. Um, that we, that was our Bible when we came out here. Um, we use that really, really, really regularly. So, question time, any ideas concerns expectations. Yeah, we'll start going through the question list. If you've got any more, then throw it in. Um, so top of the list, uh, what scope possibility of specialty training for UK National UK graduate? Um Oh, great question. Um So I just got into the emergency medicine training program in New Zealand, but we're gonna come back from, um we're, we're actually planning to go back to the UK. So I've managed to just sort of managed to delay that for a year. Um It's college dependent, some colleges are easier to get into than others. It's very possible for you to get into the specialty training programs in New Zealand. Um You can definitely do them without any issue. Um You are not particularly disadvantaged for being a UK doctor. Um And if you spend, I think I'd say overall it's considerably easier than getting into the UK and depending on which hospital, it's a lot kind of based on, if you get on with the department, then the consultants will just offer you the job without all of the formal application process, which is quite different. And if we spend a year in N Zai, it's easier to get a, a job training in Australia. Yeah. So, they are in that, the college, like, you can transfer your colleges, like, for co, we have the same colleges and that sort of thing. But you will have to sort of reorganize your, like, Austra Australian medical license and all that sort of thing. So you'll have to get a new license. You have to get a new visa. You'll have to give up your visa here. So if you're say like on a residence visa where you have to be in the country for two years and you give that up, you'll have to like reapply for a new visa when you come back. Um I think that compatible thing is more, you can definitely do it, but that is aimed at people who are actually from New Zealand can easily go to Australia and Australian people can easily go to New Zealand without all of those extra applications. Whereas we, we would still have to do the separate applications. But it's, it's still very doable. I've just graduated from med school. Is there any chance to do my internship there? Um F one F two, I think. So for this is so as UK grads, we can only reanswer from a UK perspective for this one. You can come out once you've got your full GMC license, we do know people who came out and did theoretically a standalone F two here. It is tricky. In terms of getting your F PCC signed off. The best thing you can do is come after F two for British grads, um, and send your application. I'm a radiology registrar in Nigeria. I'm also an A R DMS register. How I would like to work in New Zealand. How do I go about it? Um Not sure, I'd say you could probably still apply in the same way. Um, because you would meet the same kind of basic training criteria, go through a few more sort of requirements. Um Depending on what the relationship is between sort of the Nigerian Medical Council and the Medical Council of New Zealand. Um If you were unsure about it, then people to ask is probably MC NZ. Um but yes, uh apply applications for jobs would be in a similar fashion. It's just whether there's any extra hoops that we don't know about. We're just, yeah, not 100% sure on that one. Sorry. How would you arrange an O and G job in New Zealand? E exactly the same. I got my job through the Kiwi Health um jobs website. Exactly the same as um the ed job. Please share info about job agencies and contacts. Oh, yeah. So uh um so on the slides, there'll be um so Q health Jobs is the place to get for doing jobs yourself and then the local agencies that I said earlier. Um and specifically for Waikato cos obviously that's where we work, we've put the link to working in Waikato, er, on sort of second class slides. Um, and yes. Yeah, I think that's replied to you guys. Yeah, you'll get the slides and you'll be able to rewatch it if you want to. Um, I have no Ed job in my fy, will it stop me getting? No, I've never done Ed before. They don't mind at all. Um, as for whether it can affect sho versus registrar. Um II said, oh, maybe I should start as an sho because I hadn't done Ed before. And the consultants were like, no, you'll be grand and also I couldn't get onto a paired roster with Fraser if I was doing an sho and he was doing registrar. So I started as an ed registrar, having never done Ed before and it's been, it's been absolutely fine. I'm working as an fy doctor as, as an immigrant doctor and we're doing fy in the UK. Do I need to take an English test? That depends on where you've got your degree from? Um The answer may well be yes. Um They use your degree as your evidence for your, er English language ability. So if you, if you came from a place that has, that has an accepted sort of U Ksu K spoken language is part of the degree, then you won't need to. Um, so like all, obviously, all English British degrees are, it's taken as granted as you're able to speak English for it. If you've come from another country that depends on the course that you've done is very specific. Um Some people will have to sit in English test to do it. Did we apply as a couple? Yes, we did, we did apply as a couple. Yeah, we don't. So there's no like paired application like there is for like F one F two. but we definitely found that they were almost expecting to ask the question of, are you coming out as a couple? Um And we know loads of couples that came out here and the, the rota coordinators if you, if you do Ed like or Yeah, I don't know if it would work with anything else, but certainly if you do Ed, um it's not just our hospital that offer the paired applications um and the pad pad rosters, um which has been pretty life changing to be honest. Um But also like when we first started, um then Fraser's like Ed consultant was trying to make sure that I also got a job at the same start date cos she knew Fraser wouldn't take the job otherwise. So they were really helpful about it. And I think it's just something to probably be open and honest about in your interview if like your partner hasn't heard from their job. Say, look, I'm really interested in this job, but my partner's applied for blah, blah. And so he's waiting to hear as well, just kind of tell them and they're normally um very helpful. They normally will. Um So yeah, wh when it happened with us, I had my interview and then did a, a job job offer, like just appeared in your email inbox basically a few weeks later as well as my job offer. So she just went and got it sorted. Do hospitals use paper or computer note? Good question. It's a mix. It depends on each hospital. Um For us, we use the, we use all our, all our blood tests, all our images, all all on one system. Um Yes, our ward rounds are still done on paper. Uh and our post takes are done on paper. Um In the Ed, we've actually just done the audit on documentation of Ed. We're trying to standardize everyone to one system. Um But there is a full mix of people using paper and confusing. A definitely more papery than the UK are doctors supposed to do bloods and cannulation in the emergency department you can expect as a regular um in that if you um get to a patient first before the nurses are able to do a secondary work ups, you will, you may well have to do bloods and the cannula. They will also come to you about hard bloods and cannulas. Um but most people are trained in doing blood and cannulas. So the vast majority of patients in even in the emergency department by the time we get to them, we will have, we, they will have a blood bloods done and a cannula in and on the wards. I'd say you do very little compared to the UK because all of the nurses are trained but don't do EC GS and things like that either. All the nurses can do those but try not to try not to deskill in it because, um, they'll just call you for the tricky ones. Um, and don't get too reliant on the ultrasound machine, which, which happened to me, um, after a few months in the emergency department, um, I'm curious about the structure of a job as an F three. Can you apply to me as a sho specific specialty? Yes. Yes. Yeah. So, sh Os do rotate, they don't, um, um, you don't stick in, you can't just be like, um, a career sho in one particular specialty. Um, they do rotate around. There are some positions such as like being a registrar like pediatrics, but you kind of have made it clear that you're willing to step up to a reg where they might offer you like to stay on in pediatrics as an S HF they don't have a reg gap coming up. Do you know what I mean? Um, but in general, yes, as the sho you will rotate around, but if you specifically just said I want to rotate around medicine or surgery, um, or something more general, like that they can make accommodations for that. Yeah, I think just ask because actually, yeah, when I was on Obs and Gyn, they said if you want to stay on Obs and Gyn, we've got the, um, you know, the spaces for it. So just ask if that's something that you want to do. What's the cost of living like, um, and renting? Um, it's quite, it depends on where you live from, translating from leeds to here was, was the cost of like a house. We found that maybe we get a bit more. We, we've got a bigger house for the same rent that we were paying for our flat in leeds. Um If you live up in Auckland, you might find that that's definitely more than what you pay in another city in the UK. Um Probably just, it's still probably less than London though. Um uh Food is more expensive. So because we get all our food imported. You can and it depends on what the stock is like. You will find that sometimes like avocados are ridiculously cheap and 50 cents an avocado. And then the like avocado shortage of like March 2023 where avocados were going for like $8 an avocado or something and no one was, no one was eating them and people were taking it out of their menus and that sort of thing. Um Like things like strawberries and raspberries you'll find is way more expensive, but you might find like meat is a similar price and anything that's important, you can obviously expect a huge mark up on it. It's very seasonal. Basically how the UK graduates slash foundations and doctors apply for specialty training. Um Yeah, great question. So typically most people will come as a non training registrar in the first instance. So you get a job, you come here, get to another department. Um and you are on the non training reg rota, you do non training stuff. A lot of the surgical teams seem to have a great time because once you're a trainee in surgery, they don't do any on call. So we just do, they just go to theater and operate. Um So like we also guys, like once you're on the training program, you're just operating and the on call rotors or stuff by your like non training registrars. Um So, um you, the first step is to come across as a non training as a non training doctor um into especially that your interest in and get to another department and then get onto the specialty training program for that. Are there any forums for doctors leaving NZ wanting to sell things to people moving to NZ um Great question. If you're interested, we can let you know, we've got a car to sell, um and some furniture to sell. But there are local forums. So the local Facebook groups are probably um like specific for the doctors, like ours is always full of doctors moving out and selling everything. Um but otherwise just the standard Facebook marketplace, there's a thing called Trade Me, which is really popular here where there's you can find anything that you want for quite cheap. So it's a yeah cheaper way to quickly furnish your house. Um And if you specialize in NZ can you go back to the UK as a arrange consultant, which you have to read the application? So you can't translate midway through very easily, I think with some things. So I think like basic medical and core surgical, you, you there is some translation across you may well find that you have to refill in a UK portfolio. Um and you can apply for ST three, but it's kind of like a Caesar accredited thing. So um to go back to the UK as a consultant, you have to be, there's only certain colleges that are actually approved in the UK and even then say like am uh Austra College for Emergency Medicine is approved to go back to the UK, but you have to seize your credit. So that means you have to have a record of patients that you've seen things that you've done procedures that you've done um to come across. But the answer is yes, once you finish, um but you will find that you have to jump more hoops to go both ways. Um and um but you might find that training in the UK as a consultant to then come back here is probably a slightly less sort of paperwork based experience. Can you work less than full time? 80%. Yeah, you definitely can. Like, when I was on OB gy, there were quite a few people doing like, 50% and things like that. I think you just need to make it clear at the start so that they can, um, check that they've got enough people to cover you and sometimes if you mix with another couple of people taking part time. Yeah, and you have to make sure that because we're immigrants from the UK, that the visa allows it. So our visa specifically says we have to be working full time because that's what, that's our job. Um So you just have to make sure that you can get that um through visa. But yes, the hospitals are used very used to people working 80%. Um And they are good at facilitating that, er, any downside from using medical recruitment agencies that you've heard of. Um I think the only downside that we came up with was you might not get a place if you specifically wanted somewhere. So if you're so somewhere like Auckland or Wellington doesn't really use their recruitment agencies very often because they, they don't have issues filling their numbers. Um Whereas, you know, UK grads are basic, you know, make up about like 30 40% of the New Zealand Medical workforce. So, um, they, a lot of, sort of, more, less well known DH PS will use for companies to find them. Uh, they are really good from what we've heard. They've made people's experiences of moving a lot easier. A lot less stressful. Any advice on doctors coming out to New Zealand with a non medic partner. We've got a couple of friends who've come out with non medic partners. I guess it, it completely depends on what job they have. Like my, my sister's, um, a doctor in Auckland and she came across with her non medic boyfriend who managed to find a job here quite easily. Um, and some people we know are still doing kind of attending meetings in the UK from, from their job that they've kept. Um, and so they're doing some odd, odd meetings every now and again and they've managed to make it work. Um, so, yeah, we definitely know a few people who've made it work quite successfully. Um, do you need to locum or take an sho position or can you apply directly into your Children? Especially as a reg movement from the UK, you can take, you can apply directly into your choice, especially as a registrar. You just have to find the gap for it. So you can just apply, um, as a junior registrar. Um, and that's how they expect it to happen and some places will want you to, like, have experience in that to be a registrar so they'll want you to have. So depending on your job, um, some people will say, like, do you have six months of house office experience or something like that? And then if you don't have any experience in it, they might actually take an sho job and for a little bit, but you can definitely apply as a registrar which you have to have a confirmed job for. Yeah. So we should probably mention we've been specifically, we specifically not mentioned too much about visas because immigration and Z are quite strict on sort of advice you can give out um when it comes to visas. Um So we can tell you what has happened with us, James. Um our hospital, er, arranged for our visa. So they fill in the visa application as um we came on the accredited employer visa. Um they arranged visa with immigration NZ and we got sent a link to fill that in. So that's what happened with us. Um Visas are all slightly, er, the visas are all slightly different, er, and depend on um what you want to do. But uh that's what happened with us. We filled in the a form that was sent to us by our employer. Um You've mentioned rotational training isn't as disruptive as U Kr training to change cities. No, so no. So you don't have to change every 6 to 12 months depending on what you do. So the surgeons do. So, the surgeons will have to do, have to change cities ex um, in general every 12 months or so. Um, for somewhere, like, for our, so, unfortunately, I'm really sorry if no one's interested in emergency medicine. But our like knowledge based about this is entirely emergency based. But basically if you were to do a training program in um, New Zealand, then you would spend at least 36 months in Waikato. Not all in one go. Um, you would have to go away to do, um, an ICU job and then a year of non, um, ed. So general medicine, pediatrics, something different. Um, and you would have to go and complete a rural rotation. So you'd have to go away and compete on at a place that's not a tertiary care center basically. Um, so that happens every, um, and you'd have to find a reg change over and find a job in general when you do training, it's on you to find your next job. So when you get onto a training program, but don't say to you, oh, you're going here here, here and here. So you're s, they sort of let you have your own, do it in your own time and feel like I'm gonna go to ICU for six months. But for onuses on you to arrange your next job, um, you will have to change cities every now and then. Um, you can't do it all in one place, unfortunately. Um, but so you can do it mostly in one place. It seems to be a common theme, but you need like at least one, you know, block of six months in a more rural hospital, like for pediatrics or something like that. But, but overall they do pretty much all of their training if they want to in Hamilton. So, so just clarifying, um, we are coming back to the UK just to clarify. So, um it was really hard decision for us. Um Part of the reason is our, is our families. Um and everyone's sort of got varying reasons to be in the UK or be in New Zealand. Um Basically everything's better here, but our families are very far away. So I wish you luck in making that decision for yourself one day. It's very hard. We found it really hard. Um We're currently planning to come back but we're leaving our options open and yeah, maybe, maybe we'll, and who knows? I think, sorry that we ran over by over half an hour. Oh my God. No, don't worry at all. I can tell by all the questions that came through just how engaging the talk was. And I think we all need to start learning our 23.75 times tables by the sound of it. Um There's one last question come through. I'll leave you answer that from Alex and then I think we'll, we'll leave it there just because you've, you've already given us about an hour and a half of your time. So thank you guys. But yeah, the last question was what did you do for accommodation when you first moved there? Yeah. Oh, that's a great question. Uh That is something that we should um need to cover actually. So um a lot of people get Air BNB S when they first come out here and find like a long term airbnb. But other options are. So when we first came, we messaged the DHB and said, we're, we're coming out here. Can you help us out? Yeah, I think it's a bit, a little bit of a don't ask, don't get because some places within the relocation costs, they offer to cover you to, to stay in a hotel or airbnb or something like that for two weeks. Um, and we had heard anecdotally that that was the case, but they didn't say anything to us. So I just emailed them and said, hey, look, um, are, are you able to help with this? And they were? Oh, yeah, we'll cover your costs for two weeks. Um And so we just, um, they put us up in a actually a really nice like motel near the hospital. So they, they paid for us to stay there for two weeks, but we actually just went house hunting as soon as we arrived, found this house, um, within about five days and we signed for it and it all happened really quickly. Um The houses are generally non, um, furnished. Um, so you do have to do a bit of furniture hunting, but it's quite, it's, it's easier than the UK to probably just find a house that's going. And so just ask on the emails about if they can cover you for the, um, for a hotel or something for a couple of weeks. Cos most do. Cool. I think that's it. Thank you very much guys. Um Thanks for listening to us. Um and thanks for staying with us when we went over the chat. Um please fill out the feedback form. So there is a link that I sent in the chat a bit earlier, but it should also be being emailed out to everyone um to fill in at your own time as well. So yeah, we'll close things there. Thank you so much Fraser for an amazing talk and have a good night everyone and a good morning. You guys. Thanks. We'll see you later. Take care. Mm.