Home
This site is intended for healthcare professionals
Advertisement
Share
Advertisement
Advertisement
 
 
 

Summary

This webinar is the second in a series of intro to research sessions and it will be hosted by a renowned medical doctor and consultant anaesthetist, Doctor Perhaps I Am. Learn about his career path, the process of taking on a PhD, and the pros and cons of doing one. Gain valuable insights and tools for success into what a PhD could mean for your future career. Engage in an informative Q&A session and get ever closer to achieving those academic goals.

Generated by MedBot

Description

We all know how important research is to medical practise, and to specialty applications. This webinar deals with how to undertake a degree during clinical training.

The speaker for this webinar are Dr. Pawandeep Sarai, a consultant anaesthetist who carried out his PhD alongside clinical training at Imperial College London, and now has a research position at Imperial alongside his clinical commitments.

The learning objectives from this webinar are:

  1. Understand the process of undertaking a degree during clinical training
  2. Explore the different types of funding available for the degree
  3. How to balance research and clinical training

Learning objectives

Learning Objectives:

  1. Identify the differences between a traditional and nontraditional approach to obtaining a PhD
  2. Explain why obtaining a PhD related to your chosen profession may be beneficial to gain a position in the field
  3. Describe the process of obtaining a New Position or E-position to begin a research project
  4. Discuss the importance of forming proper protocols and obtaining ethical approval when conducting medical research
  5. Describe the advantages and disadvantages of having a PhD in terms of the research career.
Generated by MedBot

Similar communities

View all

Similar events and on demand videos

Advertisement
 
 
 
                
                

Computer generated transcript

Warning!
The following transcript was generated automatically from the content and has not been checked or corrected manually.

Hi, everyone. I hope you can see us. We're just gonna wait for a few minutes so that a few more people can join and then we'll get started. Just bear with us for a minute. Yeah. Okay. Why don't we get started? So, welcome everyone to the second webinar of the intro to research series. Thanks for joining us today. We have pov who's going to be doing the talk. So I'll hand over to him now and hope you guys enjoy. Thanks guys. Thanks for inviting me to present. Uh So um my name is doctor perhaps I am. I'm a consultant anaesthetist, uh some areas hospital in uh Paddington in London and also a chemical Sydney electorate and girl. And what I'm going to be talking about is how I went about doing my phd and what um what that meant for my life and what it's meant for my life now. So it's basically my experience. This isn't in any way an informal guide to how to do A phd. Um It's just my experience of it. I'm doing a little bit about who I am and what I do, how I got here in terms of how I got to do my phd and my job and I can give you an idea of the uh the sort of standard and nonstandard ways that you can get into doing a phd and then some of the pros and cons that I think there are to your, to your life as a result of being uh doing a phd or, or an empty. So, who am I? So, I'm a consultant anaesthetist. Uh So I work at a big vascular trauma center and I would say one of the reasons I ended up here and got this job. Uh So that uh one of the reasons I got this job is because of the phd that, that I did. Now, a lot of people do phds that are completely unrelated to their future careers and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. The ph D is a process of learning research and research methodologies and lots of transferable skills. So the actual topic doesn't really matter, but when it does, it can really be beneficial to your future career. Um My other job is that I am a applied physiologist or a neurophysiologist more specifically. So I spend about 60% of my time doing clinical work and about 40% doing research. Very little bit about my background. I graduated in 2007, I did a BSC in Pharmacology which was offered to me at my university. Uh I've never taken any particular interest in pharmacology ever again. So I don't necessarily think doing a B sc uh topic itself again, affects what you do in data life. But it definitely gave me the interest that I had been doing research because I had a really exciting project with a really exciting um uh lab group that I'm act with my foundation training was fairly standard. I did four, I think it was four months and I've actually been six. I can't remember it was so long ago, but it was had an academic component to it. And uh lots of people ask me whether having an being in a CF is essential to getting into academia later in life. And I would say it definitely isn't, it's, it can help, it can give you some really useful contacts, it can give you an idea of what the research life might be like. Um But I know plenty of colleagues who are doing phds at the moment or I've done them in the past, you have never done any real formal academic uh training or uh academic work in the past. Um I did an accepted anesthetic training for a really long time. The reason being that I took four years to do a phd and I'll come onto the duration of phds uh as part of my talk and I also did an extra year doing some extra anesthetic stuff specific to what I wanted to do. My phd topic itself was actually clinical medicine research. Now, this is quite interesting umbrella term that a lot of universities use. Um and it basically release amounts to doing trans translatable research. It isn't really a specific um research field, but I did a project that involved applied physiology, specifically neurophysiology, but it could encompass lots of different aspects of science and basic science. Um But the focus is really that you're trying to improve an area of medicine by doing the research. So I'm just gonna hand you over to nil ish again just to uh go over some mentally two questions. Yes. So we'll quickly do a few questions before the vet webinar. And then after again, just to see how much you guys have taken away from this. So let me just share that and if you could all, if you could try and join, using that code up there, that would be perfect. I'll give it a second for everyone to join in. So yeah, I think, I think it just came up. So if you could join that, that would be great. And I believe it's saying the quizzes not open for some people. Uh Let me just have a look at that. Give me two seconds guys. Uh huh. Okay. Let's try that again. Okay. Let me just share my screen again. Okay. So there's a few people join and hopefully you can see. Um So let's let's begin. Okay. Perfect. Good. So it seems like you guys already know a little bit. So let's do the next one. Perfect and let's begin. Perfect. Good work. All right. So I'll stop sharing now and back to POV. Cool. Thanks, Ash. So what do I actually do? And the reason I'm talking about my job is not because I want to gloat about it or anything. Uh I need to show your screen again. Sorry. Oh, sorry. Um One second. Is that working? Yep. Perfect. Perfect. Yeah, it's not because I want to particularly gloat about what I do. Although what I do is pretty cool. It's more that it can give you an idea of what your phd might mean for your future career. Um So like I said, I do vascular anesthesia in particular um as well as trauma just because I work in a trauma center, you kind of have to do it, but we do some very big aortic cases and those aortic cases are not really done very many places. And as a result, there aren't that many jobs in it. My clinical question as part of my phd was very much related to a to this patient cohort. And I think without my phd, I would not have had the uh C V or the background really to claim to be in any way an expert in able to anesthetize these patient. So I really felt one of the ways that I could get a job in the area that I was interested in was by doing a phd. That's not true for everyone and it's not true for uh every specialty in medicine. But I think A phd is always going to be valuable. And sometimes if it's very much related to what you're interested in as a future career, it really can help you get the job that you want. The other thing that I do uh sorry, slightly grainy picture is like I said, I do neurophysiology. And one of those things that I do as part of my job is that I do research on spinal cord pathways. And we are um you know, we, we take in students as well as part of our because we work at Imperial College, we take uh anesthesia and social students uh in their BS CS. And um again, the only reason I have this um this clinic election ship is again because of the phd that, that I did. So allowed me to have the job that I really wanted and I've shaped it in the way that I wanted as a result of this. So how did I get here? Which is probably more person it to this topic is so well, I took a slightly nonstandard route um in into getting into a phd. So I, like I said, I did a B SC project and I very much enjoyed uh the lab work. I got, got reasonable success out of it. We got a abstract and a poster presentation. Nothing particularly wild. There was no nature paper. There was no, you know, there's no New England journal sort of RCT. There was just a very standard basic science project but it found it very interesting. Did the A C F? It was okay, didn't really get much out of it. Um Probably because I didn't put much into it. It was fairly um routine for me. Um, but I did little projects along the way. I, I did a couple of little abstracts with one or two of my jobs along the way, did a Q I project and pushed it as far as it could go and got it sort, sort of published in the reasonable journal. And I kind of ticked along. There was no real particular desire to do anything formal, but I kind of, I kind of thought that maybe one day I would, but maybe I've missed the boat. Um And then I was doing a neurology case, a neurosurgical case and I just finished a vascular placement and I came up with an interesting idea based on what I was seeing. And I asked the bloke that was there about my idea. And he, he thought it's fairly interesting and he passed me on to somebody at Imperial College and said, why don't you speak to this guy? Is a friend of mine. He might have a better idea. So I went to speak to him and he, he thought the idea was really interesting, but he didn't feel that he was in the best position to fully supervise me in any way. Uh Being with me being a clinician and him being a basic scientist, he felt maybe some clinicians would be involved. So he contact his mates who happened to be a surgeon, an anesthetist that we're working in the Faculty of Medicine. And after lots of various meetings and lots of discussions or whether it was even possible to do this, we thought actually, this is quite an interesting idea. So it all came from a simple idea that I had and I then perceived it myself. So it's somewhat of a prospective way of doing it. So there was no funding in place. There was no uh ethics in place. It was literally an idea. The only way I was going to get this off the ground was there was literally no way I could do this is part of my chemical job. So I had to come out of training in order to do that. The first thing that I did was I took an E and I convinced my uh training program directors for, for this anesthetic school that I was in that I really wanted to do this. And uh they can't abort it and thought, well, it's only a year one, you have to go for it. So I took a new P and a new P doesn't count towards your training is literally a pause for a year. And in that time, I wrote The Ethics, I wrote the Protocol and I saw some funding. It took about nine months for me to do that. Now, during this time, I didn't have an income. Uh I'd left training so I managed to speak to say Mary's Hospital where I was hoping to do this research. And I just met this Iniesta's and surgeon who said actually, we have a gap on the rotor. Why didn't you come along and do some of the on calls there? So that's how I managed to get some income so that I could afford to eat and live in my house. So once that got going, I then applied for an R and I think it might have changed now. But when I did it, you can only do it for three years. So I have, I have a three year window within which to uh to do this phd. Uh Unfortunately, towards the end of it, COVID happened. So I wasn't able to actually finish everything that I wanted. So I ended up submitting about a year or so after I've actually gone back into training now, universities are actually really good about how you submit your, your phd. There's no, although you have these milestones that are usually at one year or usually at six months, somewhere between a year and two years and then your uh submission of thesis and deliver. Actually, there's lots of ways you can extend it if you need to. They've invested as much time and money into you as maybe you have as well. So it's in everyone's interest for you to complete your phd and they will extend it. So, even though I've gone back into training, they allowed me to go into something called writing mode where essentially I paid a token amount of money or my, my funding paid a token amount of money just so that I could allow just a packet of access to college emails, college library services and uh you know, all the references, etcetera, so that I could then submit my phd. I touched upon it already. But uh I had a clinical commitment throughout my phd. Now, pretty much every single person that I know um has has this as a clinician. Usually you're used to an income of depending on your grade between 40 and 70 odd 1000 when you do a P H D depending on how you're funding works. This can drop anywhere between 32 it dropped to anywhere between 30 and 40,000. So you suddenly have this disparity between what you used to earn and therefore what your lifestyle has kind of worked around to having a lot less. So, pretty much everyone I know who's a finish in doing a phd will do clinical work. I continue to be on call, uh a busy trauma center. Now, that wasn't the easiest way to earn money, but it had a, had a number of benefits for me. One uh the patient's I was recruiting were based at this hospital. So if I was going to see any of these patient's and try and recruit them, they would be coming through that hospital. Um Then um I also in my head wanted to have a job at some areas. I kind of made that decision already. And, and so what I decided was that by working, sorry, sorry for the distraction. One of my Children is trying to get into the room. Um Anyway, sorry. Um So uh I've made, I decided that I wanted to work at some areas. And one of the ways I could do that was by being on the road to being around, being useful in the department, a simpler way would have been to join a RMO type service and go to a private hospital. Most of the people that I know do something like that, they do a few hours during the day. It's usually 24 hour shift. They do a few hours during the day, almost all of them will sleep overnight. And um they often get some reading and writing done as well uh as part of the phd. So it works quite well for them. A couple of my friends do clinics once or twice a week and, and what just one second, sorry, problem with having kids and bedtimes. Um So that's another common way that people do is they do clinics and it's sort of specially dependent. A lot of surgeons will do occasional on calls that do clinics. Um And my, my gastroenterology friend will does clinics. For example, the other benefit of working within the uh working with the affiliated hospital with the university is that often staff can get reduced fees as well. So, uh it's usually half the cost. So if you're annual fee for your phd is 6000 lbs, it will be half of that will be 3000, which you can then use the additional money from your funding. If you're, if you, if you've got a grant to use for consumables or your salary, um, if you're self funding, which I'll come to you later, uh, then you only have to pay 3000 lbs instead of a full amount. So how is it possible for you for you to get into this room? Because mine was a slightly nonstandard route. So, like I said, I said, the project up and funding was, was perspective. Most phds are not, not like that. Um Most of the phds and mds are already set up and pretty much ready to go. Um They're usually continuation of projects um that have already been going on for many years and usually it's a slight tweak to the protocol and they'll get another phd are to it, not trying to sound disparaging, but that's what a lot of phds are like, um and they're, they're very successful and that allows a constant turn around of uh projects and phd students, it's a good way to constantly have papers. The more papers you get, the easier it is for you to get funding. So it's actually a very good Brodell that a lot of clinical departments that doing phds will use you. The ethics is in place, the funding is in place is very straightforward, it can make them quite competitive because they are very successful. Um But, you know, if you're, if you're keen and willing and have all the right stuff, uh then, then, you know, they are a good thing to do. Uh There is a slight difference between a phd and an MD on the whole. Um From what I understand from having spoken to colleagues, there's very little difference in terms of your likely clinical trajectory. If you are going, if you're doing a phd for the sake of getting a good clinical job, it probably doesn't matter whether you're a peek, whether you do a phd or an MD, I use surgeons as a common example, but surgeons often almost seems like a requirement that they have to have a phd, whether they want to go into academia or not, they all seem to have some form of higher education for them. It doesn't matter whether do a phd or md, it kind of pretty much gives them the same points the same way gives them the same contacts and hopefully they'll get the job that they want. If you're looking for a phd as a way into doing academic work, then a phd probably is more valuable. But again, depending on what your phd project is and what you get out of it, an MD could be more valuable. You know, if your output from the M D is, is great then to get an academic job in the future, that output would probably outweigh whether you've got a phd or an MD after your name. So it's not clear cut, which is better. But if you're looking for a good clinical job, the easier and cheaper way to do it is to do an empty. It's a shorter time span. Usually two years, the project at the end or the thesis at the end is smaller as well. Uh not exclusively but almost always, uh not, almost always. It's, it's more likely that the MG is less work the other way to do it is self funding phd. So I didn't realize these sort of these existed. But there are people that I'm currently working with who are paying for a phd themselves. So these are really good for projects that are theoretical. So they don't have consumables, they don't need a lab space. They're really good for projects that may be a lab has already bought all the equipment and all you need to do is use a few consumables if any. And the only thing you're paying for is the university fees in order to use, um, a lab space and get the phd. At the end, a self funded phd usually seems to be done by, people have lots of money. So they don't mind not having a job because, you know, it's, it's hard work, self funding. A phd or it's done by people who maybe have a fairly established career and can take that time out. So the people I'm thinking of a, a, a consultant surgeon who decided that you want to do a phd much later in his career. Uh a senior physiotherapist who's doing one as well and their projects are all entirely self funded. So what are the cons of doing a phd? So what I think might be a con might be a pro to other people. But this is just my, my, my feelings and my reflections. There is a lot of kit and a lot of uh techniques that you have never seen before. So this was my lab, my original lab when I first walked in, I'm used to putting Canada's in and sticking tubes down people's throats. This is not something in any way I was comfortable with and it was a very, very steep learning curve learning how to use these. I touched on it earlier. But a clinical medicine research phd does not require you to have a relevant BSC or MSC in any particular field that's slightly different from somebody who say doing a pure um neurophysiology, like a pure Neuroscience phd, you would be expected to have a master's. You'd be expected to have done an embrace. For example, clinical medicine research doesn't work like that. The idea is that you're translating stuff into a clinical space. Therefore, your clinical knowledge is where the value is not whether you have any science background. However, you do need to know some science and you need to learn it quickly. And that was in seriously hard work. You know, I'm used to seeing any cgs instead, I'm seeing this kind of stuff and I have really very little idea what I'm talking, what's going on. And, you know, you have to learn quickly, you're generating data that you don't really understand. You have to learn how to use things like prism and are and all this kind of stuff which you, you don't know anything about really. And you haven't used it in any meaningful way during clinical work. So there's a, you know, is what is a steep learning code is a full on imposter syndrome which, you know, it's hard to shake when you're surrounded by scientists. Um The other thing to bear in mind is the sort of personal financial already touched upon it already. But, you know, doing on calls while trying to do A phd is hard work, you know, being an RMO for 24 hours and then trying to go to the lab is hard work. It takes up a lot of time. It's exhausting. And, uh, yeah, and often, you know, I was spending a night shift at Mary's and then I had a patient the next day for our research project. So I was frequently doing 24 hours, 30 hours awake. It's just how it had to be any, there were days where it was great and I didn't have anything to do, but there are times where you're exceptionally busy. Um And like I said, the funding is ultimately uh limited. So, you know, the reason I've got this picture here is, is to basically, it didn't really matter whether there was a pandemic or not. The funding had a finite time and your group has a finite time because you're expected to come back to clinical training at a certain time. They planned your, your next rotations based on a certain date and they can't, they can't deny that hospital a trainee when they're expecting them because there's been a pandemic. So I lost a certain amount of time and there's no way I could extend that the funders were fairly okay. But ultimately, if I'm not physically in the lab, because my TPD is tell me to go back um to training, the funders aren't going to give me the money because I'm not there. So, you know, it's, it's a bit of a stress and it was quite stressful towards the end I couldn't find a picture of me sleeping because obviously I'd be sleeping so I can take a picture of yourself. But it's exhausting like there were, you know, I was frequently passing out on the sofa, um, and snickering. Um, you're snatching any moment that you can to try and write up your thesis. You know, wherever you got a moment, you know, you've got a busy life. You're trying to do lots of different things. Any moment you can, you're snatching at five minutes, 20 minutes to try and write up your thesis is, is, you know, hard prioritizing everything that you need to do and at the end of it you're producing a massive, massive document. Um, it's hard work. It takes ages. There's no denying writing 266 words isn't hard work, you know, as organized as you are. It's, it's, you know, it's a big amount of work and it requires a lot of dedication and, you know, you can't go into it sort of lightly thinking. It's going to be easy. It's not, however, I think the pro is definitely outweigh the cons otherwise, you know, I would have dropped out. Um, it is really interesting what you do. Uh, I don't know any, anyone, um, uh, of my contemporaries who didn't enjoy their time, there might be moments where they felt really, really upset and really tired and very exhausted, but on the whole, they all really enjoyed it and found it interesting. You get to go to really cool places, we went to conferences all over America and all over Europe. You get to present your work at lots of different conferences to lots of interested people. And it's your work that you can be really proud of. Um you know, their interest. You know, you make collaborations with people all over the world and, you know, you really feel part of a big community producing really useful science and you know, it's yours, it's got your name on it. Ultimately, this is just to show that I got the job that I wanted. I basically got my clinical job as a result of the phd in the hospital I wanted and I got my academic job where, you know, I've got my own established department with a colleague, a couple of colleagues uh where we're probably the only, I think we're one of only four anesthetists in the country that have a physiology background effectively. So we can create a department. There's no way that would have happened otherwise. Um And you know, I've got a perfect split. Um I'm also in a very privileged position where I'm outside of the funding cycle where part of my clinical job I'm given 40% of my time uh paid for out of my clinical contract to do research. So I don't have to have funding in order to do it. I get funding in order to support students in order to buy equipment in order to do other things. But uh I'm outside of a funding cycle and again, but only happened as a result of doing this phd and I have an amazing work life balance. There's, you know, there's a lot of hard work at the beginning, but I now get to spend time with my family and I have a really good time and the phd, the research days are flexible if, if I need to be off because I've got a sick child. It's not that big a deal. Um I can just move the research around and you know, I have a, I think I have a really good work life balance now compared to before. So I'm just gonna hand you over to the last. She's going to ask you some more maintenance questions. I'm like the bad guy now asking all the questions. Um We'll have a few questions now to sort of see the learning. So let me just share that. Now. We hope this works the first time around. So same website new code, please join up as, as fast as you guys can. There we go. People are joining, we'll give it a couple more minutes um for everyone to get in. Okay, let's get started. Perfect. Good work everyone. All right. Moving on. Excellent. Okay. And last question for the day. Perfect. Yeah, excellent. So those are the questions for today and I'll hand over back to POV if you could just share your screen again and then if people have questions, please do put them in the chat because we can go through them now. Cool. Um Thanks to Lash. Um, so final thoughts, um like I said, it's really hard work and it's a lot of work and you will definitely have days where you want to say, uh, you know, I don't do this anymore. I want to quit but don't, it is very, very rewarding. Uh It's exceptionally interesting. You get to use a part of your brain that you just do not use in clinical medicine. Um Lots of door's gonna open up to you, you can take it wherever you want it to. Um and you know, it, no one's going to look negatively on your, on your higher education. Um and good luck uh Hope you'll get what you want. Okay. So this is a QR code for some feedback and this is the QR code for the next talk I believe. Yeah, I would recommend doing the feedback form because that's how you get your certificate. And please do join the next chat where we'll elaborate a little bit on what paths already touched on on some of the pros and cons of actually being in that research environment and doing research. And if you have any questions, put them down in the chat, don't be shy. Um If you're thinking it, someone else is probably think you need to. So we have a bit of time now to answer those questions. So I'll read the questions out loud to you. Path. Does that work? Sounds good. So, someone's asked, when do you think would be the best time to do a phd? Um I think I was gonna actually say this in my, in my talk, apologies. Um So I did mine at ST five. I came out rather at ST five. Um And that was the right time for me. Um I can tell you why I did it. Then I've done all my exams. I had uh an established uh career as such. I mean, I was fairly well into my uh training. So I, you know, I wasn't learning, it was all starting to become fairly routine. Uh I was married, I had kids. I had a house kind of done everything I needed to, that felt like the right time for me. Um Others would say that doing it earlier is better because uh you know, while you do a phd, you might be skill, so do it early, get it out of the way and then it can shape you're training in the, in the future. Perfectly reasonable. Um I think you kind of have to decide when it's best for you. Best for you. The natural points are usually at the end of foundation, but I think you might find it hard to be competitive at the end of foundation unless maybe you're a postgraduate and you've done lots of other things in the past S T three is usually a natural point. I might, sometimes S T four for certain training programs where you have a transition from S H 02 reg. And then for me, like I said, it was ST five, you kind of have to decide what's best for you really. Um, I mean, I think I did it the right way because it worked out, but maybe, you know, it might have been different if I was doing as an S T three. So there's quite a few more questions. Come in. Thanks, Pav. So there's another one. Can you take a break between court and specialty training to do a phd without taking an up our? Yeah. So if you, if you simply don't apply for a training program, you don't have anything to go into. Um So finish your foundation and then arrange to do a phd. That's the way to do it. Um I don't think you could, I don't think any tpd would allow you to take a training program, take a training place and then get time out straight away. Um They would expect you to have done some of your training first. Okay. So next question, does this apply to an MSC as well? I'm a GP trainee and wondering if there's usually a support for trainees who want to go into a master's or phd. Um I mean, M S E S are similar to phds, I believe. I think you, I think you'd probably be hard pushed to, um you probably have to join an established degree program as opposed to a phd, which is more of a standalone research project. It's not a degree in the same way that a masters is. So if you're thinking of doing a masters, you would apply to the university to do a degree. A phd is offered by different researchers in laboratories who offer a project that awards your phd at the end of it. Um So they're slightly different. Um I mean, it's sort of different pathways, I think. Yeah, perfect. And the next one, what are the one year options in research during F three example, masters, etcetera? What's good to improve your portfolio? Um So there's lots of things I think you have to be realistic about what you can achieve in a year. If you're looking to bolster your research port failure, you probably won't get a huge amount done unless there's a project that requires maybe a research assistant, a research associate to help out things that are quite good to do our PG PG sets in education and things like that are quite useful. Quite a number of people have done them again, you have to kind of maybe commit to wanting to be more of a educator or a teacher than a researcher. Um I think the other things I know people have done is that they've, uh, they've gone to different laboratories and ask people who are doing phds if they have any offering phds, if they have any projects that they could help with. So, we had a number of students that came to us between degrees who wanted to do a summer project and we had short projects that they could do, which fed, actually fed one or two of them fed into my phd project overall. Um You just need to approach somebody that, you know, or you know, who's doing a phd to see if there's anything that they can offer you. Um And I think that's probably the, is the, probably the ones I can think of at the moment, I'm sure they might be more, but that's the ones I could think of. Great and sorry, I missed a question before. So I'm just going to go back to it. So there's one that says I'm an eye MG from Candida looking to do my MD in the UK. I don't have an Incredibles amount of research experience, no papers or publications. How can I get research experience which I can use to improve my C V, get into training programs and published papers. Um So I think if you went to um if you went to certain laboratories that, that you might be interested in, ask them if they had any projects that you could help out with. Um I know a lot of people have done that. So, like I said, students who come to us in the summer, they know they've got three months off and they'd ask, is there anything that they could do? Not every lab offers that? But it kind of depends on the type of research that they do. So, for example, our lab has quite a few short projects that don't require, you know, more than a few months worth of commitment and we'd be happy to have people. You just need to approach a lab and ask them. Um And that's a very, very straightforward way to be involved in a project. Almost certainly, depending on your level of input, you could get a first author out of it. Um I think, I mean, I don't know of too many other ways you can get publications that easily without being involved in the research. I'm not somebody who does data type projects and that, you know, data minding projects, but I know of colleagues that have very simple projects where they literally just give you a data dump and ask you to analyze it for them. That is another way. But I don't have the experience of that. I'm afraid. Okay. So there's something along the lines that might, you might actually be able to help with pab someone's interested in anesthetics. And I t you, do you know anyone looking for a project as everyone is the cysts they've spoken to, it doesn't do academic work. Yeah, there aren't many academic and this test that is a problem which is what myself and my colleague are trying to change. Um So uh it was the question is that uh where do you find, uh do you know any anesthetist doing research, I guess? Uh I mean, me and my colleague just going to say, uh we've got the academic department and Imperial, the, the Anesthesia, pain medicine and intensive care. There's uh there's a good uh 15 of us. So if you go into the Imperial website and into the Faculty of Medicine and Surgery and Cancer and then look for a picnic which is anesthesia, pain medicine, intensive care. All of those guys are intensive ist and analistas who are all doing, who all have their own lab doing research. So any one of them you can approach, they've all got it says what they're uh interest is and where they're, where they're academic field of interest is and you can select there and try and email them. Uh you know, see if they're, they've got anything that you can do. Yeah, perfect. And that's uh we do, I'll answer one of these questions as well. Are there any online resources or courses to help research? For example, something that explains statistics. Um for statistics in particular, I would use the prism, the graph pad prism website because they have excellent tutorials where they take you through a sample data set. So you can see exactly what's going on and what to do. Um, in terms of other resources, normally youtube tends to have really good tutorials on and courses. There's um, but if you stay, if you keep a track of this series we're running, we're going to cover a lot of resources that will be helpful to people wanting to do research, including the statistics at some point. So, stay tuned and well, can I just say one thing about stats as well? Um You don't need to know as much. That's as you might think every lab has its own type of data that it generates. And as a result, they can only do a certain type of stats to that data. So you'll find that if you do, um you know, for example, we do continuous data, we can only do really 12 or three way repeated measure. Andover's with some tea tests. There is really nothing else we can do with that data because of the type of data that's generated. So you'll find that after a while you become an expert in the date in the stats that you need to know. So I wouldn't want to, I wouldn't think about stats as an entire thing because that's way too much. You'll find that you just narrowing on the stats that you need. Yeah, excellent. I completely agree with what PAP said. You end up only using like two or three tests. I don't know any other starts and you know, repeated measure and over literally. Um And then we'll go to the last question just because we're pretty much at a time. How can someone get into research and med without a phd or MD? Um So the, the website that I mentioned that three of those guys are non phd nmd researchers, they simply had an interest, I mean, they got into it as, as registrars and then uh continued it as consultants. they just simply kept doing projects. I mean, you don't need a phd to do to do with research project. What you need is the appropriate ethics and appropriate protocol and some money to do it. Um So provided you can get those, you don't need a phd and these guys basically have got their track record and their lab purely because they just kept doing it. Um So I think the way to do research is to just sort of almost do it. That makes sense. So, um I think there's been one last question, do you have a second more to answer? So I think it should be a quick one. Um Are there any research opportunities for junior doctors in the NHS? Uh Yeah. Uh So again, you need to approach someone who's doing research and ask them if you can help out uh uh there, there's loads of projects and often when somebody presents you with a, an audit or accu I project, it's very easy to tweak that into research. As well. So always think to myself, always think yourself, can I answer anything new whenever you do an audit, you always obviously looking at comparing it to a standard. But can you push that into something new? Can you get new data out of it as soon as you do that? You flip it into research and it's very easy to get that published in BMJ A pen BMJ Innovations is very, it's surprisingly easy to tweak accu I project into research. Great. Thank you so much, Pat for doing this and for giving a super insightful talk, but I'm sure it helped everyone. Uh Yeah, and I hope to see everyone next time at the, the next webinar. Thanks again, Pat. Well, uh thanks everyone. See you. Bye guys. Uh