Discovering dyslexia as a surgical registrar: Navigating surgical training with a new dyslexia diagnosis- Mr Angus Kaye
Summary
This on-demand teaching session will provide medical professionals insight into Dyslexia, its effects, the challenges Mr. K faced, and how to revise if you have Dyslexia with the aim of being successful academically. Mr K will shed light on his journey through Dyslexia, share his own experiences, and provide advice on how to approach assessments and exams. Attendees will receive a screening questionnaire, as well as a 45 hour video chat assessment to learn more about their strengths and weaknesses.
Learning objectives
Learning Objectives:
- To discuss dyslexia as a learning difference, not a learning difficulty
- To understand the key areas where dyslexia can have an impact
- To consider the implications of dyslexia on academic and professional achievements throughout life
- To become aware of the individuals experiences with dyslexia and how they were able to positively adapt over time
- To understand how dyslexia can be beneficial, and how it can be managed to become a strength.
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The following transcript was generated automatically from the content and has not been checked or corrected manually.
It's a win. Ah, yes, Yes. If you introduce it, I'll know when to start. Basically. Hi, everybody. My name is Cyro, um, the head of surgery Finance. And keep quiet. Mind the BLEEP. Please. Could you drop me a message in the chart if you can hear me? Um, can you hear me? Okay. Mr. Okay, I can hear you. Fine. Thank you. Lovely. So this evening, we're going to be talking about how Mr K discovered his journey through dyslexia. Um, he's going to tell us a bit about himself, what he did and the challenges that he faced. If you have any questions, please just pop them in the chat, and I'll be more than happy to feel them to Mr K on d. Absolutely. Just ask us any questions that you need to so over to you, Mr K. Very much. Uh, well, chef, screen present. Yep. That's working. Yeah. Good. That's if you can't see this one. And once you go on full screen, well disappear. So I'll just feel I'll be right here and I'll feel any questions to you. Um, hello from So my name's Lantus K. I'm currently on ST eight in trauma. Orthopedics on Did talk to you about dyslectic in particular. How I've experienced that this next year. So, firstly, here, um, I I'm a northerner. I don't sound it, but I am a northerner. I'm a tad off three kids. I'm a surgeon. I think of myself as an educator in a trainer. Onda. I'm also somebody doesn't fit the kind of ideal training mold throughout my training. I've always found it quite fitted of how they want me to be trained from that side that's you want to do. I am so, as always, with these things is always definition for everything that everyone likes to start with. So the British Dyslexia Association defiance this lecture it as a learning difference that can have a significant impact on education in the workplace and daily life that mainly effects reading and writing skills. It is primarily a neurological variance that effects information information processing within the brain. I think the key thing within that it's the it's a learning difference. It's not a learning difficulty. It's a learning difference. You learn in a different way, and part of thing is you don't process the information as a vast majority of the population. It's a tickle effects your verbal memory, your verbal processing on your chronological awareness on those are the three main areas that it's of classically effects from it. Say, this has just been my experience exam, because that's what most people kind of put down. You know, this is what dyslexia effects, and it's only this little bit effect. Just give the idea for me because I'm someone who we've always Jake to my friends and my colleagues, even at school that I was dyslexic. But I've never got tested into actually very reason is any about, ah, year and a half ago or so. So at school I did a right was quite clever. I I got through my exams, the ones I didn't need to work for. I got quite good grades for, Came to Do My Ass, got you in French, which I enjoyed French. I just rub it, set it and then I go into med school on That's where it really started. Shaved my struggling with exams. In my first year, I felt every exam apart from disability studies. My second year, I called my finger out of work bit harder. But I still failed on examining just part of the other ones. Third year I failed vast majority of my exams. And this when you start to get the Oscars as well. So the talking exam so that they're rethinking to talking exam Where's the reading and writing within that fourth year failed most of those again, um, and then got into my fifth year and somehow it's supposed it on the hardest years to pass, I passed everything first time around. I suspect that's probably because actually changed how I revised. And that was very much more am sit down in groups and chatting and work with people rather working books. So I got through med school and then came to next exam. So MRCs party, you're past that one first time again. Just, uh, part B again my past that first time. The only just, um then came through Teo next sandwich. My efforts, Yes, which is part one again. I passed that one just for skin in the teeth on. Then we gave it to the F. R. C s part two again. So I've done the reading and writing bit, but it came to the main event and I failed that one first time around on disaster. The first, uh, failure that I kind of realized. Hang on. You know, in my view, I had spent enough hours prepping and I'd spent enough across the breath. There wasn't any topics whether I got I didn't even look at that. And that's when it really started. Like, hang on, I'm doing something really wrong here. My technique is so wrong that I'm just not going anywhere and then really start to put the changes into our advised across there didn't help that I was doing that. The first time I did it, I was doing on my own, um, and it just before a studyable rolling and you had email which eventually found the link to get diagnosed for dyslexia. Um went down the pathway for that and that, and I actually got diagnosed. Um, I think after passed my part too. My reason for doing it was not said I get some help during the exam is if you just so I could understand it better. And actually, I had made a lot of changes that came to my part too. On that time I passed him after I did it, I personally. So I performed so much better and I came out of the exam is great. Yeah, I've definitely past that, uh, from outside. So that's my history of it exams, you know, I've got to get through them, but I've struggled. Even the ones I've passed that kind of struggled. And it just got three buckskin to my teeth. And then from other aspects of the ST three interviews, it took me three attempts to get onto that. I'm not sure that's necessary. Anything to dyslexia, but again struggled, getting on on in that side. So that's my experience of exams and, as you can see, is literally. The last minute is when I got diagnosed with dyslexia, um, and actually made a lot of changes myself. And it's like how much difference could be made if I've been diagnosed right at the start when it's back a school, Um and then just from a family point of view of see, it wasn't as popular back in 2001, Dyslectic. But my brother was diagnosed to Celexa University and pretty sure my dad, who's a who's also not spitting surgeon, is also profoundly dyslexic. A swell, but again, never diagnosed. Say, looking with the what makes me a good doctor across this. So I look at this Lexi and I look at it and say, You know, what I struggled with probably has a reluctance. Lexus is No, you can't say. Look, everything is purely down. Just that dissection of what I started with clearly struggles exams I've struggled with WVA is getting the right numbers for those RCPs. I've just never really have not flown through with my outcome ones the whole way through studying. Um, I've struggled with that and actually again, the times were really enjoyed. Studying is actually when I flipped my m technique and actually the active learning when I actually learned the information, I did really enjoy it. But prior to going to get my technique right, I didn't enjoy it. I found it very frustrating and I didn't. I found it was a bit of a waste because I thought I'm not taking any of this on board. Um, being told what to do on spelling. It's just that's a confidence thing its own. Ask you to write saying or calling out patients names and stuff I very strong without remembering people's names. Um, Andi impatient consultants who can't see how to manipulate the fracture to reduce it. And this comes in. Actually, you flip on the head. It's a But, boy, am I good at? So I'm good at training and teaching. I'm good on my three d orientation triangulation. I'm good operating. I've got any feedback from my s reports saying, actually, you know, this is when the air is your stronger putting together fractures and how the pieces together, communicating with difficult patients I get on with my patients have found easy to communicate with them. And Germany find is quite good. By the end of it, I'm good at being a bit different. I might be in different, then winging it to some degree. What I mean by winning is that I don't have to actually planned everything out to let it, you know, you will know that some people who understood us with situations if they haven't got the exact hands, they then suffer from the stress side of things. And if you look at these two columns, know all of these exactly. Do too, too sexy. Baxley, which one of these two columns will make me a better doctor. You know, you look a lot of stupid up that isn't necessary. Stuff that is going to make me a better doctor or worst doctor from that side of things you look at. The other column is actually these are all qualities you probably want within adopted some degree or some variation of it. And if you look at dyslexia so actually, you know, what is it good for? Is your problem solving is actually potentially better with this because you see everything in a slightly different light. See the bigger practice picture my brother made a great comment was talking to about this. He said no. His example is when someone says house to you, you see the word house where he's like, Well, I don't see the word house. I see a house, I see the picture. I see the bigger picture. I see the whole house. I don't see the word house, and that goes back to kind of a little bit of how your brain works within dyslexia. And so you put these through and see how it's helped and ended May. So the difficulties I've had exams upstairs quite off. Yes. Um, I'm getting the the style. Revising for those is quite key. And this is where I think getting the diagnosis of dyslexia really helped. You think you've got it. You know, people object about having it. I strongly recommend going get tested. There's a screening questionnaire to do. First, give you say roughly how likely you are to have dyslexia. And then if it says not till that they don't put you through it says you're quite likely than they pretty through the formal testing, which is quite a involved process. Ongoing covert. It's like a 45 hour video chat cross. They were to get your whole load of tests, but you get a breakdown of everything that you're weak and strong on and the assesses opinion of how you deal with it. It's not just a Let's look at the box and see once you take the also look to see how you emotionally respond to the situation as well. And if you can get that dyslexia color of diagnosis or what it more it is really is, it says. Actually, you learn definitely toe how most other people learn and also how most other institutions teach, and that's the way to flip it on. His head is actually, and if you go to any teaching training course, they corporal it out. Everyone learns in different ways, and that's just who has its own. He's dyslexic. That just means I'm I fit into one type of person, and that's how they learn. So reading a paragraph, I don't take it in. I find it really hard to take it on the information, and I have to really read stuff again and again. So it's staying down with the textbooks looking through. It doesn't work for me. When I'm revised something, I have to understand it and then I can talk to someone else about it, and then I could learn it that way. For me, that's very satisfying. This is public. I found studying so difficult because it wasn't working as soon as I flipped right method of studying that word. I'm really enjoyed it and yeah, I looked back how much I didn't enjoy studying for all my exams, and it's because I wasn't learning. Therefore got disinterested ago, decided I didn't want to get forward with that on do a lot of people are trying to teach. You don't quite understand a little nuances with it on how they can help you and what you find is, actually, you could have a whole lot of things in place as strategies to how you learn to ensure that you can do what you want to do. Uh, for this is actually very obvious. When it comes to exams is a deadline. You could sit down. You're gonna focus and study this, but you need to see if you date today stuff. No, you can't just have someone talk to you, for example, because that's when things are learnt it with dyslexia. It's about how you process information. So loss of your short term memory is based on phonics. Eso I find it very hard to see folic in sense of it. Some says me tells me a word. I It's a new word to me. Seeing the phonics is very difficult for me. And that's how you short term memory. Um, because stuff quickly, it's by working the phonics. So the part of my own that processes phonics is not at its optimum speech. Every see just means my short term memory, which is costing what your needs. High pressure. Example. Settings, um, isn't working out. So I find it hard to recall stuff for you. Certainly put a spot by consultant. You struggle to recall stuff quickly, whereas if I engaged in a conversation with someone and we start elaborating and talking, explain it. I find that much easier. I have much more confidence, and that's certainly I've been so guilty of. It is I've lost confidence in my put my hand up to to give an answer because you don't have that confidence. He stayed quiet, and it kind of even when you put in this spot, you can have that. You don't say saying silly because you're struggling to record it is we're actually maybe after door. If someone says just give you a little bit of time to think or you can explain it, it's like, different way. The knowledge tends to be there or you don't You can't give that bullet point. Answer that they wanted the list of answers, but you can give a Nexplanon a shin and working out from that, Um and so what have I done? What have I done? So so I came by one resisting exams. I've got to work harder than others, and that's in different ways. It doesn't mean you know it's clever, is them or whatever, But you you just have to work hard and put more time in things. That aspect of it doesn't come as natural to you on D and the Converse Day. Some parts of an operation for May It's just a note brain. I can just I can just see how things be moved or done. You know, it's get word I want. Example the triangulation side of things for me. Well, I'm passing wires and x ray guidance for me. It's just that well, I can quite clearly see that you just let your hand across in here in 5% will end up over there. I don't see what the big deal is was. There's a number of other people who really struggle with that. Try that concept is again the orientation translation and again, Okay, the sex just made you. There's some parts of how you work that's different. Others, but there are benefits is a reason to Sex is around like this because it gives you benefits and your special awareness and other aspects know you can see the bigger picture rather than fake being face and one small area because they actually found when I can take a step back and see how everything else is going on here. So what else that done? Um, I've gradually changed how study, and that's the main thing. And I did this without quite realizing this is working much more trial and error. A problem with that is it's taking me until basically I have effectively sat my last exam. I'm ever gonna sit to actually realize the best way I study. I don't mind about that because, actually, I'm still need to continue studying. I'm just not going to get tested and exam format for it. Which is great for May um, so I don't get the pressure exams now. I can just study for my own interest, which is far more rewarding than trying to revise for examination. Quite frankly, it's kind of doesn't necessarily mean you're any better. Your job, I mean, means you just pass this baseline for it and having your and that's the biggest single day. Otherwise, you'll waste time advising So much for exams. And don't just do what other people do. You have to find out your strategy for you. Your strategies will be different strategies I put in place and normal. It's a combination of things. You need to get the information coming in by listening to it. But you also need to see it. I have to make next. You know, I used to think I could didn't have to make notes. But it turned out the absolute rubbish, the reason that and so that I could recall it later. I couldn't listen to a lecture and then basically I couldn't recall nothing after. It's partly that's because they're just delivering bullet points when actually I worked better than some of the lives. That concept may which, if you get more into education, you instead of that. Actually, that's really more what I should be doing. Um, working in your small groups is so valuable because it's the talking and you're describing and you're going to understanding for it. And again, it's not just one you still have to do reading. You still have to do the other bits to it, but I find the way that works for you. and you have to test it out and see what works and speak to other people. Um, except I have to have system in place and sure don't make mistakes. So, for example, a preop planning. I can't just look a list, look at X rays and then take a little in. I have Teo, you know, make notes on that case so I can recall these things later. So I know I don't make mistakes. My speaking to a couple of senior surgeons who are incredibly dyslexic and they kind of thought have been better old school because they print off the letter and they highlighted the make notes written, and they got their folder there. They bring Teo, um, the you into Theater Day, and it kind of people comes all that. She's standing a bit. Old school actually wanted to get talking to me, realize, actually that probably just incredibly dyslexic, and they found that ways around it, taking information off the screen, the things you can change that the color of the screen. That means you can read more efficiently your best thing. Take the information. Actually, there is a difference between reading on paper than reading on screen. So these are some things you need to put a face, too. Sure that you can make, um, make they make mistakes and you can cope with the system as it is. Um, and how the funny thing was getting tested. So that diagnosis, Like I said, I knew I had this next year. But from my point of view is just saying about feeding. You struggle to read, then you struggle to spout we're not. It's way more complicated in that, and that's really simplistic. Doesn't explain what's going in. It is the keep. It is in that definition, you learn differently and you process information differently. No worse, just differently. On it gave me the confidence to tell mound to some people try to get it like I don't take information in this way that it doesn't work for me. I have to do it this way, And it kind of doesn't justify the past that failing the exams, but explains it, you know, spend two people to select you passed the first time, do really well with it, and either they've got dyslexia. Don't just don't have this, and I'm good. It diagnosed or they got it diagnosed earlier. They've already found the systems that do it. And that was one thing that came out when I got tested to see actually, yes, on the school card. I did the right and one of two sections, but she's like, Well, you clearly compensated for it by putting hollowed places. For example, the, um there's a section where you have to memorize in numbers and which is saying plastic me you're not great at. And I didn't memorize the numbers that she gave me. I just memorized a pattern that made him keyboard, which is fine. But then I got completely unstuck when the numbers over 10 because I didn't have a keep out in my head that had more than nine numbers under it. And then it completely fell apart from that side and then speaking to others. And you start asking around, you suddenly realize, actually, probably are more people like he didn't feel and there's a lot of people who weren't tested and you aren't diagnosed new. I got so no, I know you got chatting to them about it and say, Actually, their story is very similar to mine little bit worried about getting tested and stick him in the goes with it. First you gain the diagnosis. You don't have to disclose. If you don't disclose, it doesn't make any difference to you. FRC exams don't get more time or anything from there, but understanding how you learn it's so vital. Teo. Progressing one exams balls in your career, making more enjoyable the way it should be. Sad just eating incredibly unstable ating learning which effectively you for entire career. You have to study if you stay stagnant here. Consultant, for example, by the time when you were the very senior end of your post, what you've learned is 20 years out of date, which is not ideal. Yeah, from that side. Um, I think how else have cape it on the on senses? I probably not cope brilliantly at the start. It just you know, I just thought I'm not good exams. I'm not good at studying, You know, you leave you be self esteem. I feel that I'm kind of you feel your sub standard t others. And actually, as I've gone through my training, I realized, actually, there's a lot of things that I'm pretty good at. that I'm probably better than others on and this exam for my teaching training again, this historically games along with people have disliked it tend to be quite good trainers. That's pretty because they've got really frustrated with and the way they've been talking, realizing normal. Quite understand. Actually, I'm not taking him what they're telling me. I'm sure you will be in to lectures where so on presents something, and there's a whole lot of incredible information they've given in their lecture. What have you learned? Anything? The answer will be No. 70 people sold it laser stuff in that on the, um, internist single thing from an hour's lecture. From there, this is to slide one slide of information that just a copy and paste from somewhere, and no one's learned anything about it. Um, so that's I think, how I coat with dyslexia and it's certainly made me farmer aware on D is really enhanced here. I'm seeing so many medical students coming through who are kind of pick up your look just quick cure it, or you just like sick on, especially to get diagnosed early. Those lows of support around you can understand how you how you learn in, especially university, less so outside of university, but certainly during it, but also a sudden get. Actually, no, I'm not, but I've got a T H D apparent. It's a whole spectrum within that off the, um leading or learning difficulties. We're learning differences, depending how you ask for off definition of it. Um, and it's interesting to see that, and they said, Look, yeah, this is what I struggle with. You know, you really have to keep it in check. That's not problem. Everyone's got some at element of how they learn you. Not just people have got dyslexia, seven from diagnosis. They have something that to keep in check to make sure they don't, um, have problems. And again, it's putting those systems in place of being aware of it all. I think that's a lot of these things being aware, having the insight say, Actually, no, I can't do this way. I could do it that way, not placed amazing to do you got inside. You can get through most things say that's, uh, most of what what to say about it. If there's any questions, I'll be really useful, Um, as the next step in scary where people meet you guys and you had me. Yeah, brilliant. So thank you so much. How have you changed your teaching? A method based on your experience. Say it's well, it is being aware of how the person who I am teaching how they learn because some people, you know, they just want to fax. And they can take this fax on board eso that's Maria's. I try and be more conscious of tailor not just how why teach it and say, Look, this is how I teach and that's it, which is probably very much get towards people who are dyslexic or don't take it in the classic away. Um, but I try and adapt a little bit to each person on that. It's just different mental. I'm trying to teach them, you know, and I try really hard focus on the principles and giving him the structure so you can work out the arts themselves, which is Germany. How I do everything but just try and Taylor a little bit for each person because actually, you just teach anyone list of facts. It doesn't mean they can't then go and apply it to something else, Um, on. But I think that's more of it. Just generally how I think people should learn rather than just because I'm dyslexic. But the dyslexia bit is just made me more aware of the person teaching saying used on asking and do struggle with this. No. Are you dyslexia? I have. You got deviated Bit like asking them. Look, how do you learn what works for you on drying to tailor one doing so it tells them, brother. Same lucky you struggling. Just Do you want me to change this? Yeah. And then you mentioned that your creative developed your own workarounds toward your 40 on sort of been geared toward your dyslexia. However, what your drug pull in developing your understanding of how you personally learn differently and is firstly, getting a bit of understanding of how I learned. And then pains saved understanding that actually, I don't take in the written word very well and then also understanding that actually, the part of your brain that processes the spoken word is the same. So So I'm saying, Oh, you just listen to it. But that doesn't work because it's the same part of pregnant process so don't retain it. So it's a combination of I don't find the technology was actually quite useful so you'd have a safe zone for these webinars that's going on. I would be listening. I'll be watching it and I would also be making notes on my iPad. And then if something came up with the picture or something onto, I could screen shot of a quick and then annotate it. And on my iPad, which so I could get the key points in the act of writing just a smaller word about a key point also meant that look, I really have focus in on that bit. And that's why I found you use for med school was when they print stuff the slides and I can annotate the slides. So you based listening on writing and you concentrating on like I'm actually write a sudden here, and then you can come back to again. And this is where, like, the technology is quite useful. So I say these are mine notes, which meant I had access to them everywhere on my face. So and I could just type in search what I found out really useful to get You know I'm having chapter consultant or something on the top of my posterior shoulder dislocations type since my face, Um, all my dates we come up with just, um keep bullet points, fax friend. Okay, these are the key things I need to know about this on. Then tricking me, Go and look at something else again later. So it's this Ms is applicable to all that. And you need this color. If they talk about this tornado or psychical learning where you see someone day sitting next day, certain extent, a, then you see it a week later, then you see it two months later. Then you see it six months later. Then you see it five years later. And that's how you really solidify it into your memory. So again, no, everything's Taylor just for the dyslexic is tailored for everything as well. When you look at the how people look that that's where I found really useful and then talking to someone in a kind of a bit more informal way and get my structure back, you So, for example, what really helped me tickly for the f. R. C s was on? They say it's for everyone again is drilling into definition. You start up the definition. What is one is They gave me time to think about it, too. It told me. I understand what this is. No, no, I understand. With the rest of my decision making process is is fine. And that's the key. Rather than going so the good example, I had a A It's like you a hot, diabetic foot, so it's get clinical, but it's much better to be on. This is, you know, potentially a medical emergency in the patient, very sick. And then some goes. What is this? Is that why it's a patient who's got diabetes and in fact, it foot? And then the next question is, Well, how do you manage those? Do you take the theater operational? Did give him antibiotics and that I think quiet didn't regain. Where is soon like you get the definition in That meant I understand it. I eat. This is all speedy emergencies rolled into one for the pain is immunocompromised neck fascia. Laxity in is an advisor. Um, you know, a plus somewhere or neck neckties. Bashiti's And then I get okay, I can put this out now that's what I found is when I've got enough time or controlling myself to work stuff out. I can sit there, process it, but I can't just get a bullet point. Right heart, Diabetic foot. It's, you know, it's It's not fresh, it's abscess. It's flexed, You know, Synovitis, You know, I can't just do the bullet points for it, and then go This is this this I have to explain as you go, because that's how my that's how our least the information in exam setting and then for that also, if you can do that, gives you really good, higher overthinking. Assume you've got that. And I explained that to announce they get over work and obviously figure out what the next four stages and you're learning. I even managing treatment. How you doing, William? On? Did you find podcasts any more helpful? You did say that the smoking where there's just a difficult in terms of a treatment words, So would that have changed anything? Or was it the fact that people were talking about in a different way? Combination? I said if I just sat on, just listen to podcasts. I didn't engage that so on their own lives, tried listening to poke Carson in the car with just on speaking on very useless. I tell you, all these also bullet stuff that I just other people was listening to himself. Listen all the time, and I just find I couldn't give him enough attention to it. And that's one of things again, it's, I get distracted. I'm I find it really hard to keep my train of focus on it. And it I'm not. So you can just sit down and get right to 20 minutes to study, and I'll give 20 minutes hard. This fake it. Some people could do that. I can't. I need a long time to build up into it. Give it my full attention, go through to it. And that's why would they work? But only in combination with, you know, me taking Nexium, my iPad, taking your photos and annotating it in a while. Three combined, not on their own. Yeah, and then I'd have to cycle back to again later. Okay, That's really, really helpful. Thank you so much for taking us through your journey and actually demystifying and d stigmatizing the dyslexia journey because I think A lot of people are worried when they hear that they might be dyslexic or they might need to do an assessment. And actually, it's like you said. You don't have to disclose it if you don't want to, But actually it can tell you a lot about yourself, and how you learn on it can only help. There isn't very interesting, and there's more people you asked around. I think the stats are spaced about 10% of the population of dyslexia, and it's supposedly even higher amongst the surgeons. In fact, after creating this event, my mentor was in ST a plastics. She let me know is well that you know, she she had a similar journey on actually like, it's not as uncommon as we think. It was really interesting to hear how how much more prevailing is. And I think that is because your strength lie and being able to triangulate and oriented in three dimensions on its thing to remember is like so you could go back to my knee slide. You you see, I failed coordinate how many exams and struggled through them on D A. And some sense of it is like just cause you felt doesn't mean you're about Doctor. You look at this. Weakness is side of this on you. Look at those through any of those and you say all these along the qualities that really good doctor would have none of them. None of them are qualities which you'd allocate to a good doctor looking to the other side. So there's lots of positives in here that I seek would potentially actually help you. And that's the thing to try, not get lose confidence in there. Since it doesn't mean you're a bad doctor. You're failing this on. Do you find the Don't fit the mold and it's quite frustrating on because you're frustrated. You find it hard to engage within this learning environment that doesn't quite work for you. When you got people don't quite get it and why it's difficult for you. And they're like, Look, can't you just fitness mold and get through training? Thank you very much. Yeah, I'm hoping things are changing. They'll slowly can't. Um, thank you very much. If we don't have any more questions, then we can wrap it up here. And if you want to drop any more questions to Mr K. Then you can contact me at surgery at mind the bleak dot com on I can pass on it that you have. Ms. Okay. Okay. I'm just gonna put that in the shot. Lovely. Thank you so much for everybody who attended on. But I'm going to close it off now. And Kim