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All righty. Without further ado, let's get started. Thank you for joining me again for the people who have just tuned in. Um Got a talk for you today on how to do an outstanding oral talk. Be talking a bit about design aspects and a little bit about presentation. And at any point, if there's any technical issues, do let me know in the chat because I won't be able to tell. Um And if you do have any questions, keep posting them to the chat, I'm gonna try to make this a bit interactive. So don't be shy. I'm not gonna grill you. It's not that difficult, but it is an important topic to talk about and work on interactively. So again, any questions just put it in the chat, I'll keep looking through it and answer the questions at the relevant points and we'll have a question session at the end as well. So what's the point of today's session? We're gonna learn about the different sections in an oral talk and how to optimize them and also go through some of the tips to presenting because I think that's where a lot of people may struggle actually. So why do we care? You're gonna have to give talks at conferences and journal clubs during your medical career. And even if, and a lot of you may want to intercalate or do a phd at some point because a lot of consultant posts require them. You'll have to keep presenting your data and your results at lab meetings. So you're gonna wanna have a nice little template that works for you and I'm gonna show you how to design a beautiful one. Um OK. But before we properly get started, I recognize some of uh the names from my previous webinar posters. So you know that I love my mentee quizzes and that's what we're gonna start with. So let me load it up and I will send you to, I will share that tab in a second guys. All righty. So you should be able to see the screen. I'm gonna also put the voting link in the chat for those of you who are unable to see it. Just go to men dot com uh type in the code and we'll be ready to get started. Good people are joining in. It's not hard. I promise this is quite a light topic to go through and we won't even take that long. I'll wait for a few more of you to join in and then we'll start the quiz. Honestly, if you've ever watched an oral presentation, which I most of you probably have, you'll do fine. So, but this is more for me to understand how I'm doing. Let's get started. Quite a few of us have joined. No speed. Take your time. You have 20 seconds to, uh, read the answer options. Um, and then do your best when I say biological, I also mean medical. Ok. We're just using that term fast and loose. Oh, ok. Bie is the one, the one out of four people got it right. Prism. Most of you voted for. Prism. Prism is for maybe I should have made this a bit clearer. Actually, prism is for graphs and statistics. When I'm talking about biological diagrams, I'm I was more referring to mechanisms and kind of images of cells and uh equipment or little pathways in cells. And for that you'd use bio canvas great for presentations, but it doesn't have uh little animations or little figurines for the different cells and things like that. So next slide. All righty, I think the four from before are here. So we'll just get started. You can always join in midway. No, no issues there. Again, it's not about speed. So take your time. OK. Just be careful. It says not be included in a figure legend. So there's a negative in there. Oh So it's interesting that a lot of people maybe you read that wrong, but the title and purpose of the figure should always be in a figure legend because otherwise people will have no idea what they're looking at and we'll talk later a little bit about why the method you've used to produce that figure might not be as important, but good work on that for now. And we'll have a post quiz as well at the end. So, back to the presentation. So we'll start off with what is an oral talk and it's a visual presentation of the most important findings of whatever project you've done whatever research you've carried out or whatever Q I or audit you've carried out as well. You can definitely present those. It's a little, it's whatever, it's a short presentation of any body of work that you've carried out. Um And the oral talks, I'm gonna be focusing on mainly are the ones presented at conferences after an abstract competition. If you don't know what an abstract is. Um I will refer you back to my previous webinar on poster presentations where I went through the basics of an abstract. I'll mention it quickly in this one as well. But uh there's more detail in the previous one and you can find that on mind of leaps youtube channel. Um oral talks are a bit different to posters because you give them one at a time. It's just you presenting in a room to a large audience who may be very familiar with the material or they may also have, there may also be lay members in the crowd and they're usually about 10 to 15 minutes with a question section at the end, usually the panelists will ask you questions, but a lot of conferences will also allow the audience members to chip into the questions. So it can feel a lot more stressful because the poster is mu is much shorter and there's other posters going on around you less stressful. But we're gonna talk about nerves. What sections are in an oral talk. So you have your classic five sections which you've probably seen in hundreds of research papers intro. Now, an important thing is you should only give the background in information that is required to understand what part of the project you're presenting in your talk. You're not going to include everything you've ever done um in the project or in your life because there's no point and people don't care about everything you've done. They only care about the most important thing, uh which is why you can't fit everything you've done in 10 to 15 minutes. You have to focus on the important things and your introduction should reflect that. But it should also uh include your aims and objectives. So what you wanted to achieve and how you went about doing that for what you're presenting. So it's really important to make the talk targeted otherwise it'll feel overwhelming for the audience and they just won't be able to keep up with it and in the end, they won't get anything from it. It should talk very briefly. About the methods because people don't come to watch an oral conference to look at how you did something. Unless it's the method that you were developing, they come to see what the results are and how they might apply that to their own work. So you should keep your method section relatively short because you don't have enough time to delve into enough detail anyways. And we'll talk about how best to present that in a little bit results. OK. Like I said, the most critical findings of your work, if you've discovered the cure to cancer, I don't care about the, the little how you grew the cells to use the cells then to prove you cure cancer if that kind of makes sense. Um I want the best part of your work, the part you're most proud of most one out in the world and then you move on to the discussion and conclusion, which talks about the limitations of your work. So why it might not be as fabulous as it seems a bit of what would be required in the future to beef it up almost to make it a bit more robust and the implications. So why, why is what you've done important? Why should I care? That should definitely be in the discussion and conclusion and you should have references normally the way you should do these is not all at the end. So I was taught incorrectly before that you should have them all at the end. But that involves the audience having access to your slides later to kind of connect the dots. So the best practice to have references in your talk is to have them on the page in Vancouver format. Impro College London has a really good guide on how to reference the different styles. I recommend Vancouver for oral talks because it's a lot more succinct and you have the little reference uh at the bottom of the slide. So people can make that connection more easily and read the paper. They want to later on more easily. Sorry, I'm I'm talking a lot. But yeah, those are the sections and they mimic the sections that you would have in an abstract as well. So an abstract would be a much shorter version of this kind of kind of get your point across to the conference committee that yes, you should let me present this work at your conference. Um But again, more details in my previous talk. So I'm a stickler for design. Um If your oral talk is designed poorly, people are going to just be confused the entire time. Um It needs to have structure and consistency and themes throughout and I know you might not think that's quite important because people should focus on the work you've done and the merit that that has. But it's like presenting the most beautiful diamonds in a torn up box. It doesn't have the same impact as the most beautiful diamond in a beautiful velvet box. Um And you'll realize I love my analogies. So I hope that made sense. You, the packaging needs to be just as good as the work itself. And that's why we come into working on the design elements. So there has to be consistency. It has, it should be the same style throughout the theme, the color palette, the font, the style of the diagram, how you've made the diagrams. So graphs should always be made in um an appropriate software, something like Prism or R do not use Excel to make your diagrams. It looks unprofessional and the colors in your diagram should match that of the color palette throughout your talk. So consistency is extremely important. References should be consistent in how you've done them throughout every slide and the layout of the slide should be consistent. If you actually notice in my talks, I tend to keep everything in very similar places. I have a little mind, the bleep logo always on the top left. Nothing moves around too much, nothing disconcerting happens. So you can almost know what's about to come and you can really focus on the information rather than changes in the slide itself theme. Use a set color palette, powerpoint and Candra have thousands of themes of prevail for you to use. You can design your own theme and what works for you depending on your unique situation, but just make sure that it's consistent and all the colors match, they're in the right kind of color families and that they will match the diagrams you produce as well. I mentioned graphs should match. So the color in, in the graphs should match the font in, the graphs should match and your biological diagrams should match the color, the color theme as well. And we'll actually have a look at that later on. I have examples of uh we'll probably go through one talk, which we'll have time for. So we'll have a look at what are the different things you should be thinking about. Use a font that's easy to read. Aerio is my preferred one to read online if it's a virtual conference, curly extra fonts are not it for oral talks. You want simplicity is key, less is more. Oh I have less is more there actually. Um We'll, we'll get to that in a second then. So, but you also want to be able to highlight the important factors or the important bits in your talk. So use bold underlining in italics. No one really uses these anymore. Well, no one really uses these. Um I've only seen me use them before but bolding little parts of sentences which contain key information is a really great way of conveying that to your audience. You can even use italics um and underlining to get points across. But it's, if you use those methods, it'll kind of stick in the mind of the audience better. So you'll get more across. And like I said, less is more, use less paragraphs and less sentences, less density of text and rather use bullet points preferentially. So people kind of can comprehend how much they have to read and how much they have to understand. It's a bit more easy on the eyes as well. And use diagrams, use diagrams wherever it's appropriate to use diagrams. A lot of things are better expressed visually. Like certain methods that you've used to achieve your results can be displayed visually and bio render which we'll talk about has all the tools for you to do that. Um Results should almost always be grasped. Don't put tables in an oral talk, no one's reading through your 10 columns of numbers make it visual humans are visual learners, use diagrams text like we said, use as only as much as required to get the most important point across important points across and you can uh enhance that with bold highlights and underlines. Like I said, your audience may consist of lay members. So don't use jargon, use explain it if you can't explain your work, like you're explaining it to a five year old, you've not done well enough. So use the most basic words to explain your work. If you've done the work and you've put in the time you should be able to do that without any hesitation and include diagrams. Like we said to explain difficult concepts more visually and yeah, arrangement into bullet points rather than paragraphs. So single sentences leave enough empty space on the screen to prevent cluttering. So like you can see in this slide for me, I've tried to minimize as many w minimize the number of words I've used as much as possible. I've used capitalization to kind of highlight my point a little bit of bolding uh and everything's in bullet points and I get as much information across probably more than if I'd written that as a full paragraph, which a lot of people still do. So don't do that and diagrams. So we already said use them as often as you need as long as they're actually enhancing your presentation and not taking away from it. So wherever it's useful to visualize information, uh and some examples of those places are actually given there. So in the intro, you might want to explain some concepts or mechanisms that could be useful through a diagram. A lot of biochemistry papers will have pathways and diagrams which is much easier than writing out the pathway. Don't write out the pathway then methods to understand the steps we talked about that already results should pretty much all be diagrams. And sometimes the discussion might also involve having results uh having diagrams in them. Like if you've worked something cool out from your results like a new enzyme pathway or a new enzyme structure, you might wanna include it in your discussion as well. Um But the more is not always merrier unlike what some people will tell you the images, the diagram should be high quality. Like I said, don't use Excel, use prism. Um It's the it's the industry standard so please use that um bio render. Like I said is a free tool. I can't stress how good it is, especially for the fact that it's free for you to make different diagrams. It has it premade images for everything that you can just mix and match. And it's kind of a modular. So you can make your own larger diagrams from their small diagrams. It's, it's what you need if you're struggling with diagrams and your figure legend. So we had a question about this which a lot of people got wrong. It should be minimalist in papers. You would see paragraphs of figure legends and that's not what you want in a talk. You wanna get the most important information across, what are you calling in your figure and why have, what does it mean? So if I have a figure showing this drug um reduces biological activity um uh in a concentration dependent manner. Put that in your figure legend. So title um Biological efficacy of drug X at varying concentrations. That can be a title and their little explanation can be uh there's a dose dependent decrease in biological activity. Uh for drug X something short, something snappy, something sweet. I should be able to read it and understand exactly what the figure is telling me. You should also have the N number. So the sample size because your data is meaningless without that. And if you've done statistics, you need to tell the reader what statistics you've done. Because again, it's meaningless. If they don't know that information, what you don't wanna put in there is what methods you use. So what you did in the lab or what you did in the clinic to get those results to collect those results. So if I've done that dose dependence curve example that we're using now, I don't wanna tell them exactly what concentration of the drug I use with the pipa into what cells. So maybe cells are actually important, but you don't wanna tell them the whole spiel about how you then incubated it for a day. You took it out, you then measured uh the activity using a plate reader. You use this wavelength for the laser, you don't want all of that nonsense. If someone asks you about it because they're interested in it, then that's fine. You'll already know it. But the general public will more want to see your results rather than the method. And that's just adding the method and just makes it too bulky. Um and disturbing to the eye. I'm going through this pretty quickly. So if you have any questions, please do put it in the chat, there's no questions yet. But if you do have any questions. Don't, don't be afraid. Ok. So a few tips on delivery, you've been watching me, but I hope you've been watching me deliver this rather than scrolling somewhere else. But confidence is key. Ok? Um If you know your material and you've actually done the work, the confidence shouldn't be too difficult in regards to the content, you might have a difficulty being confident in front of a large audience. And what I would recommend is just gather a group of your friends and practice in front of them. Honestly, that's the best way because practice is key. Um Otherwise you can just kind of just before you actually present, just take your time, listen to some music, do whatever calms you down and then when you go to present, imagine you're just talking to yourself. It's almost like you're having a conversation with yourself and you're explaining your slides to yourself. Think of it just as another practice round and with time you'll build that confidence to then present uh flawlessly every time. Don't look at your slides. OK? If you've done, if you've made your presentation and you know, the work you shouldn't be looking at your slides. Um I'm not looking, I'm freestyling right now. Um I'm not reading word for word on the slides and I hope that comes across, but a lot of people still do and i it's not enjoyable for the audience because you'll just think, why am I here. Um So yeah, I've written down that winging, it does help, but that also plays into the confidence. If you're confident, you'll find it easier to just wing it. The first few times don't be too stressed. It's not usually normal to bring flash cards along with you or cue cards. So definitely do practice beforehand. So we have that as 0.4 actually prepare and you'll see me. I'm quite a jeary person. I'm moving my hands around. Um It's not essential but it makes you seem more engaging on if it's on a video call though, you should be careful to not kind of cover your face because otherwise the camera it'll get blocked and that looks a bit weird. So I'm trying to, I try and keep my hands um to the side, but in real life, it's good to kind of get your point across and kind of almost um what's the word, cue the audience into what you're thinking about, draw shapes out in the air. It, it helps in my opinion, but it's not necessary because some people prefer it. Some people don't. Uh I mean, doing it. Um And yeah, it's 10 minutes. It goes much faster than you think. Uh especially because people tend to take longer presenting in real life than in practice. So do be aware of that. OK. If you have any more questions or any, if you guys, if some of you presented and you found something difficult. Do put it in the chat and we can have a little discussion on what you could have done differently maybe and how you can improve on in the future. So we go on to the summary now, don't worry, I have another presentation to show you. So this is not the end, I promise. Uh But it's just a summary of what I've talked about so far and it's keep everything clean and consistent in terms of theme. Less is more in terms of text, uh diagrams are essential because one diagram can save you 1000 words. And this is probably the most important thing you should take away from this only include the most key findings. Uh because otherwise some, well, yeah, another incentive to include the most key findings is you won't lose your panelists. And especially because some conferences give out prizes for oral talks. Definitely don't want to be losing your audience there. OK? Now what I have, OK, we're gonna take a little quick pause here. I'll wait for a minute for any questions in the chat. Um But otherwise we'll then go on to the talk, one of my colleagues gave at a vascular conference and we'll see whether that was good or not. It was good, it was good, but we'll look at the different elements um very quickly. So I'll wait till 7 55. If nothing's put in the chart, we'll move on. Do you say we shouldn't use tables. Yeah, because unless it's absolutely essential, I would avoid using tables because that involves the audience reading through each row rather than just looking at if a bar is bigger than another bar. So it's much easier to interpret information off of a diagram than a table. But if your data can only be represented by a table, go for it. There's no harm in that. All righty. Let's move on to this other presentation. I have to show you guys. OK. It's been a while since I've seen this one. But thank you to doctor Sid. Um who's a CST now, I think, but you can already see from the start. Very clean. Has a little logo in the right places small enough. Um A nice fond easy on the eyes. Uh po po man, you, I will just get to your question at the end. Let's go through this first. Uh But I won't forget you. I promise. So I'm gonna go. It's not very long but why don't, why doesn't everyone put in the chat something they think is good about these slides and something they think is perhaps not so good. So kind of anything that you hear? Something that might be good. OK? OK. Don't be afraid guys. Come on, you can contribute a little bit. Yeah. Good, simple format. Yeah, simplicity is key and there's a lot of text um which may be a bad thing. But what I think he's done well. Here is he's used animations to his advantage. OK. If you have the entire slide open, like this is too much text, I completely agree. But what he did was first he talked through the introduction so that when he brought out the aims, people weren't really focused on the introduction anymore. So it kind of splits up the chunk of text, which is much better than just having it all open all at once. So that is something you can use in your own presentation, use animations effectively, but don't overwhelm it with an animations has points which allow for a quick read, but disparity in size of headings. Yeah, I think he meant for aims to be a subheading actually. So, but it should be bigger. I agree with that and it is bullet pointed, which is quite nice, a bit long bullet points and he's got a couple of references there actually that I can't see the reference at the bottom of the slide, which might just be something wrong with the version he sent me, but it should have the reference at the bottom of the slide. OK, great. Thank you guys for cooperating. Let's see the next one. So keep going. Any pros and cons just type it through, I'm gonna slow, give everything about 10 seconds and then move on to the next slide. So keep typing in the chat and we'll discuss. So we'll move on to the next slide actually. I'll stay on this one because I want you guys to tell me what's good and what's bad about this leg cause we kept saying results are the most important. So, has he done well? I promise I won't tell him if you savage this presentation, but it's OK. OK. I'll wait for a minute before discussing it myself. But I'm sure you guys have thoughts and don't be afraid to put those thoughts down in the chat box and hit enter has too many errors of focus. Could have structured it better. 100%. Yeah. Why is, why is it AAA line in a diagonal line? I don't know. Um what else, what else? There's quite a few things you could pick out actually in this one. OK. We'll go through it because I don't want oh pro consistent format. Yes, you can see that the format of this slide matches the format of his graph. Everything is in a kind of orange red palette and he's matched that in his graph, which is really nice actually, you can see it kind of, it flows a bit better when they do that. Imagine the graph was green, you know, and it clashed. Not nice. Could be more balance between white space and text. Completely agreed. Yeah, there's not much space between that little box of text at the bottom, right? Another. So I'm I'll go through a couple of negatives and then a positive. So a negative is he's used, clearly used XL to make the graph which is not ideal. Don't use XL. Um And some of the titles of the webinars that he's used for these results is not full because they're too long. So I would be careful. Don't that's kind of a little bit unprofessional on that aspect. But what you can do is get Excel and get Prism to wrap text. So the even if it's a long title, you can get the entire thing to show. Um what's really good though is like you guys mentioned consistent format and coloring excellent on that. Um He's also used bold at different points to really highlight the most important part because because the sample size in the study was a very uh big pro and he's shown that that the change in confidence before and after the webinar on how it helped the viewers is I I think another negative might be like you guys said, arrangement but also a bit too much text he has include, included the stats test, but I would include it in a, in a smaller format and definitely cut down on the words a little bit more. You could rephrase that something as Wilcox and signed rank test um showed overall mean confidence rating is higher post webinar short and sweet. You've cut out about four or five words there, put it in a single line at the bottom in bold and underline to highlight that. That's the take home message from this slide. That's something I didn't go into too much in my presentation. But you should on each slide, especially results slide, have this a sentence at the bottom in bold and in a bigger font sending across the key message that that slide holds. OK? Just makes it easier for the audience to keep a track of what they're being told. OK. So I would put that as one big sentence at the bottom, cutting down on a lot of the words. Uh and the P value is significant. So there should be actually, no, not in this case actually. Uh OK. So we've picked out a lot about that. A few more graphs. I'm just gonna go through this uh myself again, XL so should be prism but a lot less text and I think that little overall summary using the numbers is, is helpful. But what's I think most helpful is that little graph on the bottom, right? Because otherwise, what's the information he's trying to get across is that the webinars did help prepare uh foundation doctors for a vascular surgery rotation. Um But the engagement helpfulness and interest of the webinar just tells you about how your presentation scales were. So I wouldn't have included those results in my, if they were my talk, but he's included and that's fine. But again, I would recommend stick to the absolute minimum number of things you want to mention to get your final point across and then the discussion has done really well. Actually, he's given the positives so the important points making his study worthwhile, but also the limitations. So the audience are aware and you're being transparent and transparency is key at the end of the day. Um So you go through the limitations, um they go through, he goes through the future of work, which is important. So what are we gonna do after using the information we've learned from here? He doesn't really talk about the implications too much, which I would because it tells you, it kind of says why the study results are relevant. And then yeah, he puts the references at the end, which I wouldn't do, I would put them at the start, especially because they were numbered references at the start, but they're not numbered references at the end. So there's a kind of mismatch and consistency there. So just stick your references in the relevant slides. Ok. Excellent. If anyone has any questions on this example, please do tell me uh keep putting it in text. But what we're gonna do now is have a post by the Narcos, see if you've learned anything from my long Tuesday evening ramble. So I'll share the screen in a second. Uh And then we'll go into the feedback form to get your certificates, which I'm sure you're all very keen for. Alrighty, you should be able to see my screen. I'm gonna copy the link and put it back down in the chat. Don't worry on you. I haven't forgotten. Actually, let me answer your question before we start. What's the difference between Prism and Bio Prism is a statistical software used to make graphs from numerical data. And it's also used to do statistical analyses like Anova T test, chi scored regression analysis. Uh Literally every stats test you can imagine is on there normality tests. Um Whereas bio render has none of that. It's not used to make graphs or do stats tests or anything like that. It's used to make uh diagrams such as mechanisms or uh if you have a second after this chat, I'll try and share a screen of my bio and you can see the kind of stuff it has on there. So you'll be a bit more aware, see that might be quite useful. All right guys, come on a few more people join up and then we'll get started. It should be a piece of cake now that you've gone through the entire webinar and you've seen some examples as well. And if you want more examples, just look through my presentation because you can use that as a template or previous pre presentations. I've done OK, five players game on. So no points for speed, take your time, 20 seconds as usual. So again, remember the there's a knot in the question. So it's a negative question, which of these is non-essential when presenting an oral talk. Oh, so, ok, that was a hard one. I'll, I'll give myself that. But complex words are sometimes essential. Sometimes there's no other word for you to use to explain a particular topic. But we clearly said that gestures and movements are 100% non essential because it's just not natural for some people. People. It can help get your point across, but it's not essential at all. OK. Complex words, there are times where you'll have no choice but to use them. So you'll have to just like when I answer the question about tables, you'd rather steer clear of them. But if you have to use a table, you have to use a table. So next question, let's get started. A lot of people in no points for speed. So when should you use diagrams? Oh a bit of a misty there. But essentially when should you use diagrams? This one should hopefully be a bit easier cause I went through this in quite a lot of vigor and passion. Let's have a look. Yeah, for any part of the talk that would be enhanced by visuals again, for the person who voted only for results graphs, you wouldn't want to do that because methods can often benefit from visuals as well as can the introduction and discussion. OK. So good work. Uh I think there was definitely an improvement from the start, but some of the questions were a bit tough. I will say that. Um Let me open binder really quickly, but I will share back the presentation for the people who want the feedback from now. So, so you know, you have your summary. If you have any questions again, keep putting them in the chat, I'll be here for a while longer. But here's the QR code for the feedback form. Let me just put the actual link to the feedback form done in the chat as well. So the link is in the feedback in in the chat. So do fill that in because that helps me and that gets your certificate so important for both of us and while you do that, I will open up my render. But if you're gonna head off now, thank you so much for sticking with it and joining me so late on a Tuesday evening and I hope you learned something and feel free to contact me at any point afterwards. If you have any more questions or you want to, you want me to have a look at your oral presentation and give you some feedback. So I've put my mind to believe email down there. Please feel free to use it whenever you'd like. So, OK, we have bi render open here. So why don't I show you what it's kind of like? Uh please use the link for the feedback form in the chat because I'm gonna share my bio screen now. You said blue. OK. So hopefully you can kind of see my screen now might be a bit laggy because there's a lot of stuff open on my laptop. But this was uh something for my phd thesis where I put a bunch of plasmids into a plate and showed that I was using a plate reader to analyze it and you can clearly see it has very good little icons for all the equipment and for plasmids and they're all modular So you can modify them. Then if you look up on the left here, it's given some icons for me because I work a lot with proteins. So there's some generic globular protein structures. There, some 3d models. You have mice for any in vivo studies uh in rat or mouse in vivo, they have little cell diagrams, cells dying, little diagrams of bacteria growing on a plate, little tubes. Uh And then you can actually see all the different types of little subtopics of icons. They have, they have human anatomy as well. So all the different systems you could always want. Let's look at some of the CV S stuff. There you go. Your little aortic arch and descending aorta. They have the valves, you have the different arterial structures in the body, an AV fistula, I haven't actually looked through a lot of the an anatomy stuff, but it's quite comprehensive. I would say a bit of clotting a little icon of a blood clot. As you can see, they have thousands and thousands of little options. Um, apparently they have grafts as well, but I would stick to uh prism for that. They have mice, they have mammals and other organisms if you're doing that sort of in vivo study. So, it's quite extensive. So I'm gonna stop sharing now. I hope that. Exactly. It's amazing for illustrations. It has everything you could imagine. Well, definitely. And it's free. Um, you won't be able to export your images, but what I do instead is just take a screenshot which works fine. Uh And you get all the perks of using binder, but yeah, excellent diagrams and excellent combinations of things. Um And yeah, I hope that helped and I hope this talk helped as well. Uh If you're unclear or anything, just go back, have a listen, it'll be on catch up contact content and youtube later probably tomorrow when I have some time. Um But otherwise thank you for joining and have a great week. I'll be here for a bit longer if you have any more questions. So feel free. No stress. You're welcome. So nothing's coming through in the chat for a while. So I will head off. Thank you everyone again and have a great week. And if you do have any questions after email me, that text thread should still be there after I leave. So have my email. OK?