Computer generated transcript

Warning!
The following transcript was generated automatically from the content and has not been checked or corrected manually.

buddy, if you can hear me touch, um, indication a chatterbox. So, um, it doesn't get any child box if you can hear me. See, I hear it. All right. I want to do that, actually. Here. Mhm. You got about coming. All right, So, um Good evening, everybody. Thank you for joining. Um, it depends on where you are joining from, so the time may be different, but from Nigeria and the evening times seven. PM So today will be so today will be having this session are special beyond, um, course surgical training application. I want you to know that it doesn't matter the level you are, it doesn't matter. And where you think you are probably think that, okay, Because I make girl students and Johnson planning to apply for, uh, teacher would set my light on that when it comes on stage. So, um, I want you to put your mind at it. Uh, and I can assure you there is going to be an amazing session. So without wasting much of our time, So just I'll just invite Mr Bankole usually a general surgery trainee s t three West Midlands. You key to, um, take us on the pathology culture and application. Uh, and we hope to learn We hope to operate, to learn from him and make it for one or two. One or two points. That's going to give us here. So, Mr Bank telling me whether you have this stage Uh, hello. Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Bang Collie. I was already mentioned. I hope you can hear me anyways. Um, I'm, uh, three general. So you're training here in the West Midlands scenery and just a brief introduction about myself. I granted it Gorilla medicals. Call in 2015. And after that, you do your intern. I don't mind country for a year in 2016. And then by the end of my internship, I wrote the club exams and then came to the UK in 2017, a transcript urology job for a few months. Then did my f white shoes look at my appointment for training? That's like a training left way to post for a year and then got into the car surgical training for a couple of years in the cancer in Sussex region. And the reason why that is important is the fact that just like, But I think the test said you need to plan tired and the information you have is quite important. There are some things that once you know, you can start collecting your evidence from day one, and you can start planning ahead, especially when you have a goal in mind to get into classical training. It's also important to know the rules and our things change. So the reason I had to do my f. Y, too trading was the fact that at that point in time, in 2017 2018, if you were not a British citizen, you know, had an European passport. You cannot apply for around one of training, meaning you could only apply for round two except you wanted to do GP or psychiatry. I was the only way you could apply for round one. And because cost of medical training is very competitive, amends most international medical graduates that we're not British citizens. I could not get into classical training except they had to find their way around someone to do GP training or waiting for their citizenship and then go into such a training so it's quite important to be ahead of the game. And so I have the relevant information in mind and even at the medical students, when you know the next steps and when you know the things you need, you also know the timeline as went to get those things, and that helps you with your plug application. For instance, if you're a total of 40 is it constant? You should know by 2024 it's no longer going to be the club. It's going to be the UK medical license in assessment. It's a changing name and also going to be changing the way things work. But however it starts forward planning that you need so as a medical student. Now you know that by 2024 when you want to apply, you will not be applying to plan anymore or using the playground. And just general information in mind means that you can add a background of what to expect and you will not be caught unawares. So let's go into the course surgical training application to talk. So basically, um, uh, at this current time, anybody can apply to Costco card training. If you qualify, there's one major restriction to apply. Apply for classical training, which we'll talk about later ball to apply. He needs to know when you can actually apply. So every year with all the field. Yeah, The vacancies are published online in November, and usually in that same week, the application window opens. It means that in November you will be able to submit your online application to start training tentatively for the next year. August. So generally, if you have medical students or even your in your internship stage, you can start planning ahead knowing that fine. If I finish my internship in, let's say January, then I have to apply for a job in the UK, blah, blah, blah, and I know that I'm not. I'm going to be eligible to apply for cut surgical training in November of last year to start training the next August the next year. So that's how you that's how things work. Basically, the application window is 28 the window, meaning If the application opens on the first of November, then the application closes on the 29th of November, so everybody else 28 days to submit their application during that time. There's a long list in process, so as I said earlier, prior to 2019. Usually they got about like 1000 applications 1,001,005 applications, and then they shot listed people. Long listed people looked at the eligibility and long listed, so the long listen is to look at those are actually qualified to apply. And basically, after 2019, when everybody could apply, the application jumped from about 1005 applicants or not in qualified applicants. And just people are sending the applications from around 1005. So I think close to 3000, because anybody could apply anywhere in the world. Just put in your application. So then they start a long list in process, and we'll talk about the law blessing later and the eligibility. So once you've been long, we stayed in codes, then the interview is usually run from around February to March, but the window is January too much because of the coated pandemic. It's now online, and I didn't see it changing anytime soon. Most likely, the online system is coming here to stay because it's more effective. So let's say, out of 4000 people currently that apply for 3 to 4000 people, that send in an application. So the cost of training office they can only grant interviews to about 8500 or 1000 200. And that's 1000 200 slots, um, interview slots for about 600 training posts and those trading posts in Scotland, Wales and England. And I think that's an island to actually. So you're looking at, let's say, 3 to 4000 people applying just sending in the application. And then out of those 3 to 4000 people, they're going to long list people that they think that qualifies. And then, out of that, they have to actually now short list people for the interviews. And I've said when the interview is open, it's usually like a 30 minute interview. They're usually three stations. Is a portfolio station currently because it's no longer in person interviews, then you have to have a lovely portfolio. You put all your documents in the portfolio and then take it to the panel to look at it now because you have done your self assessment online during the application process, you don't need a physical portfolio anymore. The second part of the interview is a clinical scenario. So usually there are two clinical scenarios. Things like sepsis evaluating the postoperative patient. And that's the magic leagues. Just simple, common, everyday surgical problems. Sometimes they want approach. I bleed, uh, scenarios. So you get two scenarios, one of those scenarios you read before you actually entered the interview. Even so, even if it's a natural interview, you see the scenario before you go into the bachelor room, and then the second scenario they ask you during the interview. And the name of that is to test your on your feet, thinking So it's a bit more quick fire kind of questions. I remember mine. I think I got someone that shortness of breakfast, hip replacement or thereabout, and my first question was so on an upper GI. I believe I believe so after you couldn't call scenario, Um, and you look at you have a management station, so the management station two is a bit divided into two. There's like a clinical management station, meaning they ask you and tell you something like the 90 year old patients that is demented, confused, that needs an operation. But the family do not want an operation or something I will talk to them or I will reassess the patient. Something like that. And then the other part of the management station is random. Things like audits tell us about audits research, which kind of consent forms, you know, consent form 1234 and the likes. Currently there are a lot of past questions out there that would Gideon give you an idea of what to expect. Basically, So there's no point in worrying about those questions because there are a lot of resources out. There are a lot of courses out there that will prepare for those interview questions. And honestly, you just need like, um, intensive study for the interview, probably like a week for so on average. Or you can start preparing with your colleagues maybe a few weeks to that date. After your interviews, you have your office. Um, basically, the way it works in the UK is is, um, it's a nationalized system. So everybody, all the jobs in the UK on the portal, it's the oral portal, and you see all the jobs and some of the jobs of their rotations because custodial training is a two year program. If you do not feel at the end. Uh, if you most ways for possibility two year program, Um, sometimes you'll be able to see the jobs you do in that in that program, on the application, Like when I was applying, I knew I wanted to go because I worked there before, and then you could see it was a general surgery rotation. But there are some jobs you will not see your rotations, and you find out about your rotations later. So after that offers. So you rank your job as you want them so you don't run them based on how well you think you've done. So. Basically, most people, for one reason I don't want to go to Let's see what Let's go to London. So it's quite competitive. You can't say no because I don't have this or because I did poorly. I'm not going to put London first. I want to go to London, but I'm not going to put London first because I don't think I'll get London put wheels first or something like that. That's what I works the top person in the country. My want to go to Scotland, and if you're the next you get the job you want, even if it's London. So imagine if there was one job in London and one in Scotland and one in Wales. If you say Oh, I didn't I don't think I did the interview. Well, I'm not gonna put London first, and you put wheels. The irony is that the person that did well might decide that they want to go two wheels and then they've got the wheels and they'll find the next job to give to you. So you preference your jobs based on how you want it, not based on or how you think you've done or the place you think you deserve. You put it as your heart's content. So if you think you want to go to Sheffield because your family and Sheffield, you put your feet up there and that's the way it works and the usual preference, all the jobs. Usually there's some people that are like, If I don't get London, I'm not going anywhere else. So those people, my only just preference London, meaning they'll just put preference as part of the jobs that you want and there's a column of jobs you do not want. So imagine if they're 600 jobs and someone says, Oh, I'm only going to go to London. I'm not going to go anywhere else. They put London only as the jobs they want and every other job as jobs they do not want. If, for instance, they are second in the country and the first passing in the country once London, then the first person gets London and they get nothing, meaning they don't go anywhere else. And in cases like that, they're out of the out of the recruitment around. They offer them and other places around to see if there's a preference. Well, for most people, especially for as firing the surgeons, most people are happy to go anywhere. So most people preference all the jobs. Well, if you know that you're not going to go to well, for instance, no matter what happens then it doesn't matter. It doesn't make any sense to put Wells in your list of jobs, because if they give you wheels, then you have to decline it. And when you decline a job, then you're out of the program. You're out of the process, totally. So let me just recap when, after your interviews, you'll be asked to preference your jobs. Preference just means to list your jobs according to how you want them, and they're over 600 jobs. You should preference them. Take special care to preference the top 10 because most people get something in the top 10 and then make sure if you don't mind going somewhere, put all the jobs there. But if you mind like, if you know that I'm not going to go to these places, if they give it to me, then put them in the jobs you do not want. Because if they give you a job and you would reject it, then there will be no other options available. If they won't give me a job around one, then they'll ask you to re preference again, and they can offer you a job around, too. So that's the way it works, roughly after the offer's. Then you start to walk August the next year, the first Wednesday in August. So that's roughly the timeline. And the reason why this is important is the fact that if you're working on any project, you know the timeline of the project, I'm working on. You know that by submission of your application, let's say in the last week of November that project has to be ready. If not, you cannot include it in your product in your application. I mean, if anybody has any questions at this point in time, just send a message in the chest function. Is that okay? So we're talking about eligibility? Well, so apply for the course surgical training. You need your FBS. I'm sure you know, however, as I said, forward thinking is very important. If, for instance, you are finishing so the medical student's here, they all finish around me are me, and then they start their internship. The internship in the UK is the foundation training. They started a foundation training in August. So if you are in another country, for instance, and you finish your train your medical school in January, it's always advisable to have one year of internship in your home country. Currently, you can apply for internship in the UK Once you pass your plan exam, it's a bit more competitive or it's possible. But the part of the least resistance really is to do your internship in your own country and get a full registration. So if you finish your medical school in whatever country, let's say in January, let's say you start your internship in February of that year, then you know that next year, February, that is when you have finished your internship and then the less you can start a job in the UK will be February of the next year. So most people immediately they finish their medical school. Go for the internship, and after your internship, you can you know that you need to write your LTs or or E T. That's the first thing you need to do and also at the back of your mind that that as an aspiring of two years, I believe so. You don't want it to write. You don't want to write it too early because it might expire before your plug. One sometimes, but you also don't want to write it too late. So, like a good time to let's say, write it to be in the second half of your internship here and then you can also write your plat one that same year, and usually some people do their plan tool during the internship Yeah, but I think it's might be a bit more difficult because you need to go for academy and things like that. And you also don't want gaps in your internship because you need gas in your internship is a problem during jams the registration so most people will do their club to immediately after they're internship. Possible to do your internship, though. Um, whatever works for whatever people. So after you've done your internship, you do your blood when you get your blood, too, and that's time you are now ready. So apply for Kasich medical training by default. So once you've done your medical school and you've done your internship or foundation program, the next was important into new. In your eligibility is that you must have less than 18 months experience in surgery, So that is where most people get it wrong. And I'm sure there are a lot of people that, uh, in that category in the UK currently. So let's say you want to be a surgeon. Basically, you finished your internship in February that same year or February that year, and you finish your club, too. Let's say in May, and they're like, Oh, I want a surgical job. You get a surgical job because I want to be a surgeon. Makes sense. You get a surgical job because you want to be a sergeant. You start your job in the UK Let's saying June, um, April and you're eligible to apply for Kasich car training by November so April to November is seven months. That way you are eligible, so you have several months of training of surgical experience. The 7 18 months does not include your internship year or your foundation year, so everybody will rotate through a surgical rotation as part of your internship, so that doesn't count. So once you've done that, some people might not get a job. Let's say they feel like they started a surgical job in April. Apply cause cause, medical training November, and they don't get it at this point. You know that if you remain in that surgical job by the time the next course surgical training application comes next year, that's 12 plus seven. That is 19 months. You will no longer be eligible to apply for course surgical training. So now you have to ask yourself, Do I now leave my surgical job and go to a medical job or go to a ent and go to somewhere else. And that's where planning comes into place. And then your decision will talk about the things that might influence your decision. So the things that counter such called Jobs are general surgery and all its specialties. So renal transplant at hepatobiliary jobs. And also check our jobs. Plastics, urology, basically the things that I do not count as surgical jobs of technology and obstetrics and gynecology. I don't count obstetrics and 10 oncologists are soldiers anyways, so they don't count. That doesn't count, but every other surgical specialty counts. So that is when he needs to make sure that it's a balance. If you want to be a surgeon, he wants the surgical experience So some people will continue in a surgical job and then apply for higher surgical training at ST T level. While some people will opt out and then do a nonsurgical jobs job. People do whatever works for them, really. So the main thing is 18 months surgical experience, so in anywhere in the world. So if you finish your internship in Cyprus in Jay in Australia, if you do a general surgery, plastic surgery, urology, pediatric surgery, neurosurgery job anywhere in the world before coming to the UK and in the UK, and it all comes to 18 months. Then you're no longer eligible for course, such cool trading. They deem it like your to experience, basically, So your foundation competencies also quite important, basically, is equivalent. So you cannot finish medical school today and say You want to apply for a surgical training tomorrow. You need to have a full license. Basically, the full license you get is after you've done a one year internship in any other part of the world. But in the UK, the internship in codes in the financial program and that's two years and then you need your GMC registration. I'm sure that's quite straight forward to. So as you see, there's a lot of things to be aware of. And there's a lot of things to plan for. Well, nothing really gotten to the point you need more. It's a strategic thinking and forward planning, So the next thing is, let's say you've done your internship in your own country. You're in the UK it's not November. You want to apply for classical training. What you need to do is you register. You register on the real platform at all our E L. That's where all the applications go. You register, and when it's November, you'll see the vacancy. You click up the vacancy and you click and apply. You're putting your profile, your your data university degree, your job experience, everything you put in all that. Then at the end, it comes to your self assessment. So, as I said earlier, this is when they ask you about the things you've done, Um, your audience, your research and things will talk through during the talk. It's important, to be honest, because they if there's so basically, let's say you say you've done 10 audits the concern. It's consultant surgeons, the look at the audit. What they do is they give you points for them. So if you're uploading certificates, they look at the certificate and then the award, the necessary points. I think I was reading the case recently about someone that uploaded the certificate, cyanosis certificate. Or maybe it was an audit that he didn't do, and then they were referred to the JMC because of that, so basically It's a balance you don't want to lie, and you also did not want to change yourself. Obvious lies are obvious lies, but giving yourself the market designed is very, very important, especially when it comes to things like international or national presentation. Some people are various various, definitely. There's a standard definition of an internal of a national presentation. That's where when people from various regions come to a particular place and are the conference or whatever. But then there are some small programs that everybody in the country is invited to. That doesn't mean they will come, but it was open to everybody and you can count as the national team. That is not a problem, really. But the consultants reviewing it might say, Oh, no, this is This is not a national thing. They won't. They won't penalize you or thank you life. They'll just give you the mark that they think you deserve. But if you say that, oh, it's a look out and then they won't even better, considering it as a national thing. So that's where balance comes into place. So one of the important thing is, as I said, a lot of you are in various countries. There are things that count as national awards. So I think that was a year and they counted the N Y. C as a national award. I know that people put it as a national award a few years a few years ago, an accountant because it's, uh, it's an award for your National youth Service, and it's given by the government all your medicals go awards. They're all counts. So keep all those certificates. Um, all your rules in organizations ensure you get a letter like, Oh, you, For instance, if you are organizing this program, make sure you get a letter from them saying that you are part of the organizers and it's part of something we will say. Is it is it a national or international presentation? Because if you take this program as an example, well, there are various people from the response of the world. It's a voucher program. You can call it an international presentation, so things are flexible. Basically, you need your first degree. Oh, from medical school. Uh, first degree certificate. Some people love a B S C as a first degree, so that's important. Uh, so basically any evidence you're submitting must be university and above evidence they did not accept everything from primary school. So if you want to really raise as a primary school students, that doesn't count. Um, it's national international local evidence, either from your medical school or from your first degree. So if you did plenty anatomy as your first degree, you got various awards in anatomy. Then you went into medical school and graduated your awards for anatomy that account. So those are the things that you don't forget. As I said earlier, there are 1300 interviews, slugs. There are about 600 jobs offer, so they're also run through post actually a lie. Um, well, there are no longer around troopers, so basically, cause of the country raining gives you access to eight of the 10 surgical specialties which we'll talk about later. Let's go to the next light now, so points. So this is where all the problem lies in your self assessment. You old be told to grade your ranking based on all this. So the first point out and let me just tell you right from the onset, it is impossible to get full marks in everything. You just need to get enough marks to get you an interview slot. So when I applied, I think the total score was 72 and if you got around around 40 and Abou you would have, you would have gotten an interview. Currently, there are so many points there are so many domains that it's almost impossible to get full points and everything. But if you get up to 60 to 70% of the available points, then you're more likely to get an interview. So, as I said, you're not gonna get points in everything because that's just impossible except your so on. It's crazy, really. Um, and even at that, some of the points are contradictory that you cannot get this point and also get that point. Um, you just need to get enough points to score you an interview. So basically, you need to score around maybe 60 to 70%. You need to get 60 to 70% on the point of on offer to guarantee you an interview slot. So let's start. The first one is the MRCS part A. This is easy. It gives you four points. If you passed it zero points. Otherwise, before they give you a point. If you're a 10 32 no, they don't bother. It's either all or nothing. And the next question is, when are you eligible to sit the MRCS part? A. You're eligible immediately. You finish medical school. So as the UK graduate, uh, the UK graduate, you can apply. You can write your MRCS part, a rainy, A foundation E n. As an international graduate you are currently reading for your plan. So adding MRCS part A might not be the most prudent thing to do, but some people can manage it. Or also, if you think based on your timeline, when you're in the UK, you can write your part a. Then go for it. It gives you four points. It's something that currently is very important because four points a lot, and it's I think, the part a cost around 400 lbs or thereabout and it's relatively okay. The past medical part is around 40%. Well, because he just finished medical school, you have the chance of passing the M. R. S. A. The next is surgical causes. If you do up to four surgical courses then you get four points. These are also easy. The main surgical classes are the basic surgical skills costs the advantage. Trauma lives post course, the care of the critically ill such competition. Of course, what I would advise I do not do the expensive course is because there are lots of cheap surgical courses out there. Do not spend all your money doing expensive causes like crisp cost, which goes for more than 1000 lbs. Also, remember, if you're working in the UK, you have a study budget and some trust give you a study budget of over 1000 lbs, which you can actually use for these courses. So look for cheap surgical course is to do, I don't know. I think some people causes in your own country will count. But they just have to give you a very good certificate so cheap surgical courses don't do anything expensive. Log book is also another one that you can get so right from your house man ship if you assist in theater or even I think it's based on. Even as a medical student might think. If you have more, you can add your logical log book as a medical student. Oh, you actually, you actually should have a log book. As a medical student, you can have a surgical portfolio as a medical student, the bit controversial. But I think overall it's going to be a verified log book, meaning a consultant has to sign it. And most likely, it's going to be log books for when your internship in your internship year or your foundation year or your And when you're doing a surgical job, you just need 30 cases that above. You don't need to do them yourself. You just club and assist. 30 cases is easy. Most people would have that. So that goes back to when I was saying like You need to plan So if you say you want to, you don't want to get a such a good job because you you don't want to exceed 18 months. You also need a certain product to get you your log book numbers. What you think cases realistically in some theater in a week, you can get 80 30 cases in some hospitals. Just just go to the elective lists and scrub and assist. Or just be helpful. Surgical conferences. Also, if you do? Three. And if you don't? If you do two such carcasses get two points. If you do less than so, you get zero points for your logbook. Numbers that you remove gets you six points 20 to 29 get you four points. 11 to 20. Get you two points and less than 10 gets to zero point. Does anybody have any questions at this point in time? I went for a minute. Yes. Thank you for your question. The question, um so is asked. Someone has asked, How do you set up a log book? So, basically, if you Google a log book, um, let me show you my Let me just show you Let me show you what it looks like. And this is the log book that you use for the rest of your career. Really? Even cause sometimes use it. So basically, I don't know if you can see this is the website. Um, just Google such a logbook. Anybody can register if I could can register and ask you Who are you? Are you a UK surgeon? Are you a nurse practitioner? Yes. Surgical care professional. You have a healthcare assistance or thereabout so even medical students can use it. And when you're in your internship care, you can use it. Your internship. Here you can use it, and it takes it for your entire career, and you can change your can change your profession. If you're a medical student, see a medical student if you are an overseas surgeon to see an overseas surgeon and when you become if you're a UK so journey, say your your UK surgeon or training. So if so, the other question says those lows cause that causes comes. For example, I took kind of automatic skills cost with my trust. I'm gonna certificate. Does this come out as far as you know? So basically, it counts. Um, however, So if you look at the if you look at the uploaded the applicant guide and if you look at what kind of such cold causes, it just says it has to be from an approved authority. Local hospital is an approved authority because hospitals actually run very specialized courses. So let's see what the log book says, what the guidance says to, um so he says, Um uh, let's see. So, Max, let's go back to the logbook pain. So, yeah, that's how you set up your log book and you put in your details. You put in the cases you've done, and you put in your consultant. Also, if you are in a foreign country, then you cannot put in your consultant because your consultants isn't there. But what you need to do is you can add a consultant sometimes. But what about the case? Maybe you need to print it out and you need to get your consultant to sign. I think now one of my bosses was one of the lead for the cost of scarred training, say was involved in the recruitment. And I think they prefer people with GMC numbers. But what you can do is whichever numbers you have. Whichever log book, you have a printout. Get your consultants to sign it, putting their details put in your robe, and then you can present that, Um, let's see. So that's for your log book. So it's It needs to be signed by verified buy consultants, Basically, um, so that goes to the next question as to the causes that counts. Local causes count, but you need to evidence them properly, meaning you to get a good certificate for them. The details of your cause, a lot of the of the trust and you present that. So look how causes do count. Um, let's see the main ones, the they like people to do. So the B s s most likely they want you to do. There's a start surgery course that is cheap. They can do. But I think overall, the more you add, the more you the more you need. Really, the more you you have. So when you have the basic ones. So if you bring, like, four local courses or my trust this date one, my trusty, that's one of my trusted. That one. And you only bring like, four local courses. They might frown upon that. But if let's say you have three courses by the Royal College of Surgeons and you put one course from your local trust, then I'm sure they will not mind. Acid also run some courses and other other agencies run some courses, too. So So let me look at the African guide and say they said, What what counts as a cause? Yeah, so let me look at the So listen to what counts as such car cost. Any surgical team cause either organized or accredited by one of the royal College ease of Surgeons of surgery. Organized organizational by one of the royal colonies of surgery. One. An international or national surgical organization, too, or a regional dinari will be accepted. So the cost run by the local hospital. Usually all the participants in the delivery can come to that course. So when my itinerary runs course is the certificate I get is from the hospital, and that certificate counts even they were organized by machinery. So alternatively, any surgical team cost with evidence of cpt accreditation would be accepted, not accredited or underground. Did medical society organized courses will not be accepted. So basically, a course run by a medical, uh, underground medical school will not be accepted to answer that question directly. Yes, most cases run by a local hospital will count, but you just need to make sure you have a good certificate and you get if you get, um, you get all the necessary information. If you If you have a program for it, you can add the program to it so that you know that It's, uh, so that the exam and the consultants and look at your application. Know that that credit course. But as I said, Don't go there with four courses by local hospital. They're going to frown upon that. Yes. Any other questions? I hope that will answer both of questions. Good. So that's for your logbook. You can't look at look back at any time putting on your logbook numbers. Yeah, surgical passes. We've talked about surgical conference. We've also, um, so the main surgical conferences are the acid conference, the sgpt conference. There are loads of other conferences, and if you do three or more conferences, you get your three points. So just like the previous question, what counts as a surgical conference? There's also one year Also, there's also a definition in the in the pdf. I upped it, uploaded already. Most things will count. It needs to be an agency that is accredited, organized. Um, you know, that gives you a COPD point. So, uh, your trust conference would also count because most of us will run a conference and they'll get more people to come to the conference now our speaker's. But as I said, it's always good to have a well established conference to so as a classical training. If you go for one, asset is online, so it's not that difficult. Registered for one, put asses, there's your number one. Put another well recognized cause, a number two. And then if you put your local or smaller conference and number three, then they're more likely to give you those points. Um, it is considered. It's two consultants that look at the evidence you've presented, and like with everything in life, the way you package you're evidence really counts. If you package it shabbily, you get like a various crawfish certificates with no name on it with very, very few details, and you bring four of those. They're just through the fall into the been. But if you're starting to like a very good international cost or conference puts like another good national conference, you very certain well, so if you just put it in the end with a local course, they're more likely to just give you full points or everything, unlike if you just bring three dodgy conferences for them. So surgical elective replacements, if you've done one for four weeks and above you get your full points. Most UK trade. So this is one where by they are trying to give you K training is more points because most people would have done is surgical placement. I don't think you can do your foundation program without doing a surgical placement, so it's a bit cheeky to put that in there. Um, so what kinds of the surgical elective basically going out of program or even as a medical student, you go to, uh, surgical department for four weeks, get your elected done. You get letters from the departments from your consultants that will count. I don't think anybody who should have problems with this so degree. If you have a PhD our first class, we get four points. Um, let's see. PND takes three years. So, personally, I won't be going for this, but you'll be surprised. I know my one of my colleagues at a PhD even as a foundation, even foundation doctors. Sometimes I'll be a PhD, but they are less than 1%. So don't go thinking, Oh, I need a PhD. Most people will have a PhD so but if you have it all well and good, but it's not something I would, um, I would aim for as a normal remembering. Well, some people are being impinged in the past, so they get the full four points and let's see. So, basically, if you have a first class honors in your first degree, uh, classic medical school, you get three points. So it appears to get you four points, which I think is crazy. But so where do you find soldiers that so Page gives you four points and first class degree, gives you three points a medical, a medical degree where you get a first class also gives you four points. An MD research based MG gives you three points. Know what your intake and a degree gives you three point. The only thing that gives you four points is PhD first class is give you three points mg. We research gives you three points. If you have a post graduate certification, a diploma that gives you not a diplomat, actually an m. M s e on M A. That gives you two points. Um, the other things that give you points you can look into, but realistically, most of these people, the people that get points here did not go for medical school thinking, Oh, I want four points or PhD because I'm applying for classical training. That's not the way to look at it. Those ones just want to do a pft by themselves, and then that gives them extra points. So there's nothing I would be worried about. 99% of people will not get these four points. So move on. Do not stress. Um, the next is let me go to the next thing prices. So national prices gives you six points. Regional prices give you three. Look how prices give you two. Um, more than one price locally gives you 21 price locally gives you one. So this is where it also becomes a bit, uh, interesting. As I said, um, those in Nigeria, your National Youth Certificates award. Some people counted it as we look at international, uh, the National Award Boys like a mandatory program. I don't know if they still counted, but it's something I found interesting when people used it. So whichever country you're into that sometimes that you may just get an award that might be you can count as international or national, but for national awards. I be more straightforward. The ones that I bit tricky is the regional awards. So basically, in your trust, there may be other trainees in other hospitals that they give their word to, And if the trust gives you the award, you can count it as a regional award. However, you need to have you need to ensure that you get a letter or that certificate shows that it was a dinner or a regional institution. So the best way to avoid problems is when the certificate states exactly what the award is. If you are the certificate that does, no ST, let's say this is a regional thing like this is the cancer in Sussex, January or region? If that certificate is not stated, you can get a covering letter from the consultants or from the hospital to say this award was open to all the hospitals in the region and should be categorized as a regional award for the purpose, of course, medical training application. So if you have a certificate that is a bit unclear, then get a letter that says the exact wording that gives you the exact point. So if you want the certificate to say, if the certificate or not say national and you do not want to fight and argue with anybody, just get a letter that says exactly that email weather is in charge and say, Can you give me a letter that says this is an internal award? Because this country, that country, this country, we're there and this person one that award as an international award. So if your certificate is not clear, just get a letter that clarifies it So that number one they do not. So I give those points And number two if you need to present the letter later in the future, for instance, if they didn't give you the point, you can just remind him that this is the letter that confirms that this is the This is the category of the certificate I got. So audits, um, there's another. Get eight points for audit. Basically, you have to present them, and that's the surgical audit. So basically, it has to be you lead the So the wording in the application says you lead in all aspects of the surgical team audit. That's not realistic. Most people just bits of it, uh, but for your application, as long as you've presented it the surgical team, that audit and you present it at a local original meeting. Most people who get there get eight points for this. It doesn't need to be an international presentation. Just need to prevent present it at your local meeting. So I remember when I was applying for my constitution trading application, I just quickly finished my audits went to the we have in our monthly department departmental meeting, and I quickly presented in there. So that would say that I presented by audit just five minutes, five minutes presentation. You can see it presented it. And sometimes if you are the one that say, Oh, this is the list I want to do. But you recruit other people to do other things for you there, then you can just say you don't want to let it. So leading it does not mean that you did everything yourself just means maybe you're the one with the idea. Um, so there are also you can score 8642 depending on your level of involvement. But for most people, I believe you can get it's points in this So this is one that you should definitely get a 10.8 point four and audits in your local country counts. But as I said earlier, you need a good certificates. You need a good letter. Um, so, yeah, that's that, um, teaching. So this is another interesting one. So let's take this platform for help. For an example. As an example, whoever developed this platform has developed, organized, delivered the program and they will get 10 points for teaching when they apply other people that join. Then it becomes a level of involvement because you can't say 10 people design, organized and delivered possible. But if it becomes something that is frequent, it raises eyebrows. So I got, I think, eight points in this one. And basically it was actually WhatsApp Teaching program, and I designed it, was designed by my colleague and I, we were teaching, were organizing. We delivered it and I think gave me four points. Actually, if you didn't give me four points, it gave me close to four points. And then the question now Rose, How do I tell them? Organized and deliver a teaching program. And what's up? Nobody gave me a certificate for that, obviously, because you did it yourself. So what I did was I took screen shot of the water program, all the feedback forms I got from the water program. All these, um, all the moderators, the certificate to get the moderators, all that and I was brought it all together, and that's what I submitted. And then they asked me about it, and I think I think I maybe I claimed six points and it gave me eight points in the end. But that's all you're evidence such a thing. You take the certificates if it's a good program or if you want to do it yourself, and it's international things. The easiest way to show that you've designed, organize and deliver teaching is to get feedback. And the more feedback you have, the more important it becomes. So I think I took, like, maybe 50 feedback forms, but what I now did was not to take 50 ft back forms. You can use Google, Google, um, forms, and then that just gives you a total number of the feedbacks and gives you a summary report of the feedback. So if you tell someone Oh, I've decided to change program on Twitter or whatever. Yes, the feedback from 100 people saying that this program was excellent. That's four points because you have shown that you thought 100 people on a platform. You don't need to take it three times. I'm going to give you some if it's my back. But if you take a feedback of 100 people and show anybody, uh, this is one of the people that I thought They will give you your full points. So you need to be innovative to get 10 points here, and you need to be very creative. Most people will organize one in their local hospital, and I know then my hospital, they are like this yearly teaching program you can lead, So you just go to the so one called trick is to go to the Post Graduate Center education center of your trust. Tell them you want to deliver a program, and if sometimes I'll give you something to avoid, have a mind that you can now use you just design it, too. You treat kids to your own your own taste basically, and then they will give you a certificate that you design it, organize it and delivered it. So that's another way to do that. It's a point. It's 10. Point is the S points, and you can. It's definitely something you can get. I know one of my colleagues. Also. We went to the Trust HR decide whether to organize the program, and they gave us the support to organize it and deliver it. So it's something you need to do or you can do. A teaching degree is also a bit difficult if you have an M S C. In teaching, you get four points. But as I said, Who goes to school for another two years to get four points for Kasich Country in the application? Because the only so what most people. So when I applied, what you needed to do to get free points here was teaching the teacher course, and the teacher teacher course was two days now. To get even three points, you need to get two points. You need a five day course, which I think is a bit ridiculous. Um, what what? I think what you can do here, I think it works, is you can add courses together. So a two day course here today, cause here what they call this here I think together counts as five days. I think it's something I order. My colleague did, and I think I accepted that. APG sat in education gives you in medical education, gives you five points, but the average PG set costs about 4000 lbs, and I will take you an average of 6 to 1 year, six months, one years. I think that's a bit That's a lot for four points. Uh, currently a post very certification in medical education is something you need for the rest of your career. So if you have 4000 lbs, that is free line on the table somewhere. It's something that is an investment for the future because even as a fire training as a as an exit retraining, if I have a TV set in medical education, it goes a long way, and it saves me a lot of trouble for some things currently, but it's 4000 lbs is six months, one year, a lot of stress. Most people do the teaching the teacher cause. Get there one points or two points and move on. So imagine you can get two points for 400 lbs, and you can get four points for 4000 lbs. So I think the I think the second point is that while the postprandial certification in medical education is expensive and time consuming, it is an investment for the future. But do not go kill yourself about it. Presentations are quite straightforward. Nationals like national presentations. What counts is the national or international probably goes based on the guidelines we've talked about as we are credited, maybe give you a COPD points. Something like that. Um so how many of these can run achieve as the medicals? Well, let me go through the end, and we'll talk about the ones that you can achieve as a medical student. So publications. If you have a first degree of parliament watership, you cannot. You can get six points for that. That's achievable at any stage. Leadership. A national leader basically get eight points. Um, so you asked a question about what are the things you can achieve as the medical students? Fine. So let's start when you think you can achieve as a medical student, which is an excellent question. I when I got into classical training. I knew the things I could achieve as a medical student before I got as a medical student. I have seen the patients and the the application guide, and I knew the things I could get and things I am here to get in the future. As a medical student, you cannot get past a MRCS because you're not eligible. Immediately qualify, then you're eligible. But then you also need to do your club. You need to do your eyelids. You need to do your internship. And also you can do this conveniently while you're in the UK, so it's not something you need to rush into. So there are some things you can do as many accidents and other things that are easier to do at a later date. And that is when you need to know the difference during MRCS as a medical, uh, we immediately you finish medical school. Yes, you can, but you need to No, not really, because you can do it later. If you think you're going to feel multiple times, then maybe you can start at the medical accidents by an average person. To be fair, the part is the most difficult part. I know people that crashed out, of course, surgical training because they don't pass the part A because it's it's difficult, but it takes discipline. It takes knowing the things to study and know anything to study for. Part actually comes while you're in the UK also, but anybody can pass, but it's quite straightforward. Um, part B is even easier, so don't worry about MRCS. But he has a medical student. Surgical courses? Yes, if if you want to attend them, I wouldn't worry too much about what causes the medical student, because you can always go for them in your internship years Log book, I'll say, Ideally, it is. Um it is, um, while you're working that your log book will count because as a medical student, you need a logbook to qualify anyways, so I don't think that will count. And it's just that the case is, if you work in a surgical department for two weeks, you can get 30 cases. So let me tell you something. You should definitely get a medical student. I know you have. Most people are like four weeks to choose their surgical negative, so as a medical student is not just to the a surgical elective is making sure he gets the necessary letters to evidence it. PhD some people have a PhD before coming to medical school anyways, but you can't get a PhD as a medical school as a medical incident. Um, but if you're doing like a first degree B S C and the accounts, um, if you do well, you can't. Everybody wants to get a first class. You can't say, Oh, because I want to get those special training. That's when I get a first class. Everybody seems to get a first class anyways, Um, prices. You can definitely get prices as a medical student, local prices as a medical student and if you go for international or national competitions. So I know you know, a lot of countries they run international or national national medical student competitions. Who is competitions and things like that as a medical scare. You can go if you win international price on it. I won't worry too much about all this as a medical student, but yes, if you have the opportunity, do get involved in audits. Um, most people in the UK do auditors, medical students and you'll be surprised that a lot of them have some of these things already. Um, the main thing is evidence in your own country and knowing how to do it to the standard that is acceptable. Some of these audits are just better done in the UK. Had less stress. Uh huh. Mm. Next is teaching. So as a mini confident you can teach, um, can teach nurses, teach your colleagues, uh, teach non medical students about things and that you can also set up teaching programs for secondary school or older people. And that also counts. Even as a medical student. A second degree as an M S. C is not not necessarily physical as a medical student presentation as medical student counts. So one of my the first papers I ever got was my final year program paper, So most people was all right. I'm doing research in their final year program. And then I took my research and then summarized it did something else to eat, and that was the first paper I ever published in a really good journal. So as a middle class students, you can publish papers. I know some people have medical students they furbish over your own write papers you don't need over your other papers. You just need a couple. Oh, boy. Yeah. It's something you can do as a medical student. Presentation is something you can do the medical student also. And so basically the fundamental thing you need to know. Yeah, he is. You need to know how to milk stuff, milk and stuff. What do I mean? Imagine you do a project as a medical student. Let's say something as simple as hand washing. It starts off as an audit. I want to know how many doctors wash their hands before they go on the ward. You do the audit, that is only done. Then they'll be like, Oh, I want to write a paper on doctor's watching the iron before they go to on the ward. You do a literature review. Look at all the evidence. Economically systematic review. Right. The people get it published. I've done an audit, written a paper. Now I submit it to all the conferences in the world. One of them calls me take, um, and present either i poster or representation. Represent it. So basically what started as one project and washing. You've gotten an auditor of it. You wrote it out of the paper. You presented it. Let's say, Oh, now, leadership. I want to. I want to start a group of people that I show people wash their hands, blah, blah, blah. Get people to provide this and provide that. Um, yeah, you become the end of, uh, hygiene in the hospital. That's a local hygiene, then as leadership. So one project can get a lot of things, and that's what most people do. Is that Okay, So I think the summary there is no out to maximize the work. Do you do take one thing and do it as good as you can. Make it a paper, take an audit, make it a paper if you don't make it a paper making a poster presented, submitted, do a lot of things with it. So back with the cost of the carpeting, um, if you apply to the Costco training program, as I said, I think they're like 10 surgical specialties. Um, and the classical training gives you access to eight. So basically, you have general surgery. You're a GNC vascular plus six pediatrics O. M. F s and trauma. Orthopedic surgery if you're planning on being a surgeon in one of these eight domains. +123456781 of these eight. If you want to be a general surgeon, you go to a general surgery training. You go to Costa Rica training urology, saying all this. So basically the course Surgical training gives you access to this. It's surgical specialties. And when you get your when you apply in your application, you see the jobs you do in your course of the car training for these two specialties. So there are 10 surgical specialties. Eight you go through by course of training. So there is to be a run through training program. I know you gotta talk on urology this morning, and I think the speaker is They run through your logic trainee. So instead, of course, of car training, it's the same application. Just out of the 600 jobs, let's say like 100 will be run through. That means you start as one S t one. So consequently is 61 city too. Then you need to apply again for one of these eight specialties in 63. But in the run through. You can start urology from ST one all true to ST seven without or s to eight without needing to apply again. But the good news or the bad news is that you've stopped the run through training for most of these things because it was basically by us because some people are applied in ST 31 of those just went through with an applicator applying. Um, the next thing is, um, if you plan on many characteristic surgeon or a neurosurgeon, they have their own different application process. A. Yeah, it is not true. The cost of Palestinian scheme for neurosurgery and characteristics. Um, they run their own training program themselves. You need to write the M. R S A N S E m s are a That's the the exam. The GPS writes the psychiatry people write it. It's a multi specialty recruitment assessment exam. Then you apply most of them these two specialties, so they don't want you to have more than 18 months experience and neurosurgery as like maybe nine jobs in the country. Characteristics maybe 7 10 jobs in the country every year. The more the main problem with the specialty is that? Yes, they are fun, and they have prestige. But you can finish characteristic training and not get a job in the UK or anywhere else in the world because there are very few. They don't need so many surgeons per se. So while it's glamorous, he wants to be like you want to be the next big castle. Uh, maybe maybe the next jobless Ben Carson. Um, so, basically, for the neurosurgery training you can you need is a separate application process. Um, you need the M I r a. You need, um you need your interview and your portfolio. All the things we've talked about you will need them, and they're essentially the same with with this application. The the only difference is is that you need to write the S R A, which is a very unique exam. It's not an exam of intelligence is there's Byetta is intelligence. There's also a bit that is a bit of so the thing about the m s are a is that is a S j t a situational judgment test, which is more like a bit like ethics and things. So most international training struggle with this exam But if you study it well, I'm sure you can pass it beautifully. Um, so that's the thing about characteristics and neurosurgery. Separate training program, and you can apply for them so well. If you apply to classical training, you can apply to a surgical training can apply to the GP. Apply to characteristic. You can apply to anything you want. There's no restriction of application. And if you don't get the cost of your training, you might get a real surgery. Mmm, that's actually possible because it depends on the interview so you can have a strong portfolio and flop the interview. You just need basically, you need a portfolio good enough to get your interview, and you need to practice well enough to get a job. So that's why I said you could If you do badly your classical training interview, you do excellence in your neurosurgery interview. You can be one of the 1% of people that get in the research training job. Um, so yeah, and, uh, the international medical graduates that actually get these jobs also, and some of them would have their Ph. D. Because of the kind of people that they are But, yeah, that works. So I did a bit of a deacon. As as this year, there are 120 than 60 course, surgical training, City, one's and city twos. And that's why I said they're around 600 jobs every year, and that number has remained almost like the same all these years. To put it in context, there about 2000 jobs in medicine in internal medicine every year, probably more actually close to 3000 jobs in internal medicine training every year. And they're probably like maybe 10,000 to 7000 Internet medicine trainees every year, the also every year up to 5000 G P jobs every year. And because even in the GP training program, it opens twice a year. So I like classical training like those once a year out of the 1000, sort of like 60 co trainees. 101 of them are International America graduates. That is a bit deceiving because some of these one of one people British citizens, but that gives you an example, and that's 8%. But this is increasing because there was a change in the rules. So when I applied I think it was 3% because you couldn't apply as an international international graduate. But so the rules are the rules keep changing. Overall, I think they're making it a bit more. There are some things are getting more difficult and they're saying they're getting easier. So basically, it's easier to apply now because you can. But the things you need is becoming a bit more. Um, it's becoming more, but it's something I definitely want applying to. Um, I think my I take my advice would be to start early, and I think you guys head of the call if your medical student and you're already having these questions as a medical student in 2015, I did. You have all this? I had to just Google search and stock things online plan. Now that you know the things you need to do, um, you can start volunteering for more things. And, for instance, if you go to a national outreach program, you can just get them to give you a certificate for this or that. And I work for this or that. You need to be proactive and be smart. Know the system well, no, The timetables know, for instance, my colleague, when you applied for Castle Cottony last year, they decline his application, telling him he had exceeded the 18 months limit. So you have to get you have to write them back and say No. He hasn't explained it because it is an application. So while it's job here, the contract's up to February, so he applied in November that year. It was going to be 18 months by February. So I think when we were looking at it, they calculated it up to February. But then he wrote to them and said, No, By November, when I'm applying, I'll be like 15 months or thereabouts. And then, even though they decline his application, they are now accepted it when they emailed them and just saw them that this is the correct information. So it was panicking. Panicky panic. I just just calm down. This is the rules. You haven't broken the rules, send them an email and then and then they will do that. Um, I don't play the game yet because some awards you can basically design awards and give yourself, uh, encourage people to give you I was possible. If you need it. You need it. Look towards a C three. Not getting into college training doesn't mean you don't become a surgeon. There are other ways of getting into the other ways of becoming a surgeon. The foundation year training. This is a very, very good trillion program and stay updated. Basically, um, any questions and documents have uploaded the course training applicants and book. There's a person specification I also sent. And look at the H, the website. Any questions, guys, these are the longer than I expected. Actually, any questions? I hope you. I hope you guys found it useful. I thought there rumbling on. Do you have any questions? I've been told the link end automatically by nine. PM We will not need it to end on the screen. I will wait for a few minutes. I'll wait for four minutes. Actually, if there's no questions, then I will end the program in four minutes. If there are no questions and thank you so much, doctor dot Okay, so you would rather have a question. And, um, how to ask concerning the research? Um, the research, the publications Basically, um is it like what publications count? Isn't that probably you're probably your your your research, Um, you have some people's, maybe in public health and some other papers in surgery. Some other papers in medicine like that, like that. So, um, do they have a point for each of them? Or it's just the ones on surgery that just counts any. Any paper comes, it doesn't need to be in surgery. The only thing that gives you full points for being in surgery is the audit. So in surgical audits that you do and present gives you full points. But any paper, even if it's a 19 and gathering, gives you your full point as long as it's stopping it, um, they also accept case reports, I believe. And if you're in the UK or even in Nigeria, actually, collaborative papers counts. So collaborative papers is this thing. A salad during coated became a popular during coated, whereby the one of the largest papers in the world is coated such paper. And some of your consultants in your hospitals are part of autos on that paper, and it's basically just giving in, putting data online and sending it to the system. And then when they write a paper they put you as an auto. So collaborative papers count. I think they give you. So if you're if you're a collaborative auto in three or more papers, they give you two points. So that is the paper. That is two points it gets for not doing anything. Basically, I have about five collaborative papers. I did a lot of work in some. I did virtually nothing in some. Um, but yeah, Look at your hospital. So coughing Sarge is a big one. And in all, the over 180 countries are participating in coated such. They're over 10,000 collaborative daughter's. So that is an easy paper to get. And you can get them in any country that you're in and they count. As for classical training, Um, I think case reports also count. No, nothing. Including So case reports did not count and let us the auditors in account. But narrative reviews count. Um, does emergency department elective counter surgical elective? No, he doesn't, um the things that count as surgical elective things like urology, pediatric surgery, I think I see you count. So I think we'll look at the documents I sent you guys. You know the things that count anything that doesn't count. But what stories that touch? Basically, Um, just the easier. The most straightforward it is the better. Um Does the decision gotten at any level other than the finals count? Mm. Yeah, it does. A lot of medical schools are divided based on the topic. So you can look at the anatomy in your second year if you get a Distinction anatomy accounts and you can count that as a local award. Let's see. Yeah. And funny enough, I think what most people don't realize is that they are so focused on getting a philosophical draining post whereby they actually don't realize the importance of actually knowing the hospital. You're going to going to the right aspect of a coach. Carr training is something that is underrated. Um, can surgical resident in Nigeria with over 18 months in into their training to be eligible for Costa training? No. If you have over 18 months of surgical experience anywhere in the world, you do not qualify. In that case, you need to look into the ST three applications. So if you want to be a general so journal urologist, you look at the ST three General surgery, urology, pediatric surgery, blah, blah, blah. You look at S C three application and basically don't waste your time in Kosovo Tickle training. You have the necessary experience according to them. So when I was a Costco, when I was a cost of the country before, when I was applying to colleges training, I knew the especially I wanted to go to and that was my number. One hospital was an and the training I got there was really fantastic. Uh huh. But most people, but usually any cost medical training puss on average, all of them are good. Some, some are just better than others. So, as I said to Ryan below, uh, everybody listening. If you have more than 18 months of surgical experience anywhere in the world, do not lie about it declared, and do not bother applying for Kasich Tickle training. Apply for ST three in the specialty you want. So you've you've asked a follow up question. If not, what advice do you have for such a category? Advice? You do your MRCs get it done and over with it. And if you haven't done it, do your club or whatever. So it depends on what you want. You can either do your MRCS and then use your full MRCs to come to the UK or you can do. Your club comes to the UK working as a as an s h O that. Then get your then get your MRCS, then become a registered in the UK and then you can apply for S t three. And whatever such a specialty you want and just like, um, a lot like I said, getting a letter from all the places you've been to for all your words, they do cows, I think one that I like the UK for whether it's a very good level. Er, no matter which medical school you went to vanadium your commandant. But when in the UK to all the level playing field Yeah, all right. Thank you very much. Uh, for your time, because this meeting will end by nine, actually. So if there are other questions, you could just, um all right, if there are other questions you could just, um you just drop them in the chart box, and, uh, if time elapses, you can can send me a message or I would relate to the you can. I don't know if if he's open to receive messages so you can send either me or the If you have the general surgery group for for, um, cigar. So you can just step down the group. Then you would, um, talk to the presenter, relate your message to the present, and you get a response. So that's fine, because time is time is time is not on our side. So the amount I appreciate, uh, presenter for the wonderful presentation I have been able to learn one or two things that even as a medical student, there are things that we can also do. All right. Okay. Um, you know, So there's something for you in the chart box. So even as a medical student, there are things that we can also do. And, um, you can start now. No matter was little, and that was that was that was such an eye opener. I don't thank everybody for joining started this meeting by seven, and this is almost nine. So that's like two hours of our time, and that's that's really a lot continue that many of us are busy and all of that sounds really appreciate us, so I'll send the feedback as any feedback from now. Uh, okay. It has been sent, so you can just feel the feedback from and you get your certificate. If there are other questions, we will end the meeting now. So but not everybody. Thank you so much, Doctor. Usually we appreciate you for your time. So with everybody. All right, then take care of everybody. Bye bye.