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uh, sorry. Um, hello, everyone. Um, my name is Dr Jessica Johnson. I am an ST To In Chemical Pathology at the moment. But as I would explain, that's not really something that you can apply for anymore. Um, so a little bit about myself. Um, I currently work in a trade in Sheffield. Um, on. Yeah. Just going to let you know about talk about the pathology on how you enter it. What it is that sort of thing. No. So, um, generally the first thing when people think when you tell people that you do chemical pathology may go, who is that? Um on? No, no, no one. No one. Really. Not many people know what we are. And even if they have heard of us, they still don't know what we do. I think even a lot of, um, the other, like histopathologist so don't really quite know exactly what it is that we get up to. What our role is in the lab, um, on our how we how we do anything. But I should have like to think of us as the guy in the chair of medicine. Um, we do a lot of stuff we are sort of the back way, sort of take care of the backbone off most of medical compression behind the scenes. So if you think, um So here is something that comes up the Royal College of Rheumatology put out for, um, for the GI Week on, they obviously they like to make with allergy sound. Amazing. So I have highlighted all of these things that are mostly down to come for the gene apology. 70% of old diagnoses you go. What? How? You know, people think of pathology. They think of sending off surgical sample to see whether or not some things cancer. Um, but chemical pathology is blood test. Um, except except for the small box of that are hematology on coagulation, which tend to be under the date Name of the hematologist, A transfusion. Um, but yeah, and we don't really do cultures. So that's microbiology. But most of the other tests or other chemical pathology or immunology, depending on which trust you are and how big an immune immunology department you have. But in a smaller bgh, it's often the chemical pathologist during the immunology test is about. So we do blood test urine test. Um, the CSF lactate. It's proteins and things ascites. You know, any of the any of the things that come under clinical chemistry when you look up your results on something like ice, those those air, those were done by us. Um, so off this, almost 9 900 million test each year. Um, over half of those are clinical chemistry. Um, so that's how we That's how we sort of get our way into preventing, diagnosing, treating, monitoring, making 70% of diagnoses monitoring how how organs work, Making sure your liver and kidneys are working babies. Um, the newborn, the newborn blood blood spots screening is it is a blood test. That's chemical pathology. Um, on reduced. And we do some of the cancer markers. Um, so, yes, that is so that sort of half. But so this is so that makes it sound very grabbed. How how how are they're very so very few of us. Um Oh, by the way, even feel free to interrupt me with questions if there are any. Um, because big, um, and let me know. So what exactly do you need you? So one of the main things that we do is Ah, Is this something called duty being the juice by chemist. So we authorized test results. Um, on. But that's basically looking at what result the lab comes up with on making sure that it looks like it's a true result. Um, so we have a look out for anything that might that might be interfering. Or if it's an artifact or you look at the end, you know, wise that sodium so low. And then we can add on things like Lipitor like lipids to see if they're high triglyceride. Um, and then we add comments or things to help interpret. We do that look for especially GTP samples, Um, and then we do something called reflective testing. So, for example, of iffy GP sends the panel of LFTs on, they often just send something, and it says one a drink. Who knows what that means? You've suddenly see that there is a raised lt on nothing else. What we will do would be to add on, for example, um, a gamma G T and a S t on a ck. If those hadn't already, they added on, just to help decide whether or not it's muscle whether or not it's liver, um on if they hadn't had the extended LFT is to give the next end of the LFT. Is there a swell if they're going to need that from monitoring? Um, and we do that for a lot of different things that on isolated, raced LP will add on a bone profile. If that wasn't already there or if it was part of a bone profile, then we'll add on the liver profile. Um, on again, we do that a lot for her GP samples. Not quite so much for hospital samples. But we do what we do do that, too. Um, we It depends on Depends on what? Trust urine with how, how many samples these they look at. We tend to look at the anything that's very abnormal. Some some tests. We look at all all of the all of the samples that come through. We look at all the results for that test. Sheffield Children Hospital. They're they're they authorize every single results. Um, in sth we would have a way to many samples. So if it's know if so, generally, if it's within the normal range, that's fine up. And then We also have something called a Delta check, where if it's very different from A from a sample before it, then we'll get that even if it was within the normal range, because it might be that the tests don't match up. Um, so that's part. That's part of our duty, you know, the next thing that would you is managing the lab. Um, so we I take to sort of take the lead on things like quality control. We talked to the interface with the clinician's. They want a new test. They talked to us about whether or not we can set it up or whether we can send it away. Um, or we say why we can't set it up where we can't send it. Why? We don't think it's a very useful test. Um, you know, we do. We do. We we were often in charge of all the point of care of things. Um, we can sometimes be in charge of special services, that she's toxicology on that and that sort of thing, but I it might involve getting giving evidence in the corners court. Um and then we also do see patients, so we quite often get. It's quite often outpatient things that we get involved. If I mean our main things are lipids, so I don't not sure if any other special she gets has does this lipids. There's much about a bone, which is also often done by endocrine and sometimes your motility in borders of metabolism. Also generally under the chemical pathology chemical pathology Um, umbrella. I'm not sure if anyone else really does them, um on that isn't done by most comfortable AGIs. That tends to be quite need, even within the chemical pathology number up specialty. We do help with diabetes clinics and some trusts and do some things with endocrine like thyroids and things. And we also often, um, help interpret thyroid tests, especially for GPS, Um, and then other thing. Other things that we that we that that we were traditionally involved in nowadays is going more into gastro. It's nutrition, but that is part of the trading. Um, we could also do some some. It's quite a flexible specialty, so you can call, but you can do things like I t wardrobes where you go untie to you on, um, help there in case they have like to see if there's any artifactual anything. Um, for example, in our trust, because if you use is a different system, they don't get the they don't get us looking at their test results like that. Everything gets automatically authorized for them because otherwise they wouldn't get the results, and quickly on they wouldn't see the ghost reporting that quite often quite often is done. Um, so sometimes that's helpful. We can, you know, you see things and on drying explains Lane, what might be happening if if test results there by odd, Um, we also as part of duty by chemist to get phone calls from GPS and under the ward Say, you know, um, this patient has this blood test result. Why do you think it might be, um, a lot, you know, or sometimes even getting asking for help, You managing things? Um, but mostly it's down to How do we investigate this further? What don't we do? We don't Actually a nice this happens ourselves. Which is what a lot of people think of when you go. You're working the lab. The biomedical scientists do that. They're highly trust specialized in highly trained. Um, we do do that instead of as part of our dot you know, poverty training. We do go in the lab, get a feel for it. That's mainly so that you could have an idea of what might be going wrong with a sample. When you know when There, when there is a there is a problem. You you'll actually know what's happened. What happened with the sample journey is so you can think of where the problems might be. When did you have to do some bolts? Things like using a pet, put things in a centrifuge. Um, but like, it's sort of it that the dot so sort of being signed off for those sorts of dot So sort of along the similar lines of being signed off for trash, Janus and I m t where a natural respiratory regimen order to do a chest during would have to do, like, 50 signed off before they're allowed to do it independently. And then we get we get them signed off on it. It's like, competent. And you will know that we're not exactly what I actually competent to do ourselves. Uh, we don't do his stability. Um, so we don't have to look at slides week most. Most of the time we get our star information. All of what we get is just data on a computer screen. Occasionally we do do some things that are interpretation like, say, like a protein electrophoresis looking at electrophorous a sample on. But yes, we don't we don't We don't really look downsides anything. It's all there on a computer screen, which makes it a lot a lot easier, especially. You weren't very good at the thing. It slides in medical school like I was not. Um, so why do you chemical with allergy? Uh, one of the best things is probably It's a general. Be a great work life balance. Um, most, most patients are are are patient clinics. They tend to be quite chronic conditions. That's not something that, um so most of our patients are Well, um, are these They are when we when we get this one we're discussing with them if they become sick and going towards people that they tend to be underneath underneath the actual physicians. Um, then we give them advice when they fall on us. If they remember, they remember to bonus. Um, we have very flexible working patrons. Um, so a lot of chemical below just will do something like eight till six, protect for four days a week and have one day off, um, on on. That's been going on for a long time. So one of my consultants, he said that when he when he started his job in the nineties, he had a great time taking Fridays off on going around with his son with his swiftest with his sons, which, when they were told dollars, which was not like, very thing that many men did back then. So, you know, it's it's very good from that point of view, um, you do on calls in the evenings, they're often done from home on What's the things that you get done for a calls? It tends to be If, um, if there's a quality control problem in the lab, at most the time they let you know, and then you can see whether or not it's something that can wait until morning. Um, on they just add not many. No often does it happen of looking Sultan Stented, or whole week of the time. It's not very. It's not a very strenuous time to be for, uh, generally, um, like for things like duty, bike. Um, it's where you're authorizing results. That tends to just be done one day up during the working week and that the only calls are only for sort of labrum urgencies. Um, we have lots of opportunities for research because we get all the data we on. We have the i t systems in order to search through it. So it tends to be a lot faster for us to for us to find the data that we need, rather than trying to go through patient's records one by one, um, way our folate. We do pot quicks and things on audits, and we take we take a lab called policy control very seriously. So getting quits and things last for longer than one rotation, which was always a frustration of mine. When I was when I was doing, um I am teens, uh, core medical training. Um, we don't really rotate hospitals, but if you do, if you don't have the specialties that you need to get done in your center than you might have to go to somewhere else, it does. For those clinics, like once a week or something. Um, course. Now, now it's like a lot of things being Teddy Trimix. You might even be able to do them from home. Um, so Sheffield, it has quite a lot, but I have a spot a lot already there. I did go across to the Children's Hospital, which is a separate trust in order to get experience with the pediatric samples. Um, I know that the person that leads will be doing the inborn errors clinics with us because they don't have it inboard our service there. Um, on I think what's of the the people and holding York might come to us for metabolic bone, metabolic bone for next. When it comes time for them to do that, um, we get time to study for exams within our actual within our actual work. So when we did our open day with the Royal College up, but when they did like, they're welcome date, which was on soon because it was pandemic up. But they said, you know, you should be doing more than 22 clinics a week, three out push. So that way you have time to do learning because that way. There is very different to most of the things that you learn to medical school. Uh, the it's quite depressing going over my notes from my first year medical school, and I I just know this once here I was writing, writing, uh, writing comments along the porphyria pathway. It was like I did, actually, no, this that won't wait. Um, but because you actually give time, you get time to study for it while you're working. It's not quite so bad. It's like trying to study from part one or something while you're also rushing around the ward's, um, it is a small community. There are not many Kemple the just round. They've got, like, a big mailing list from the chemical politics into the scientists. And so they quite often like you get questions and people being like Do does anyone over this test doesn't. We've got some very weird results. Does anyone have any ideas? Um, sadly, I have yet to be toe gone. Could vote for conference in person because of pandemic. I get us get the impression that when when when those do happen, you know, most people sort of didn't know each other and that sort of thing. Your own desk. That was a big drop from me then about people, um, other people. But, uh, it's nice not to be sort of shuffling around the ward's every four months stuck in a tiny doctor's office. Um um, I got two screens. So what? The send off for procedures? Some people really like doing procedures. And, um, we don't We don't see in patients unless someone were to collapse in your clinic, which you know may happen. You don't really have to have to manage anyone acutely, which is good for me from, But, you know, for some people, miss that I put down recognition because no one knows who chemical privileges are. No one even thinks about us, even when there is something in the news that has to do with full ajeel like, for example, an entire blood awful split soups shortage on what are we doing about it? There are people talking about from the GPS and the b m a know 100 really seem to find out what the chemical blockages were actually doing in the background to try and help with that and then obviously no one ever knows what you do. Um, so you can be like, Oh, yes, I, uh You say you work in a any people tend to know if you have so you work in GP. People know a GP is if you say all. Yeah, I'm working, you know, but it nephrology. I work with kidneys, but no one knows what category of ology is you. And after you try and explain it. Morning. So how do you become a chemical fill a gist, which is what most of you are probably here for. So it's recently changed. Um, it's changed in 2020 21. They started letting in people. So it used to be that you could either be cut, do metabolic medicine, which was after cool medical trading. And you have to have bases for that on that was ST three, actually, and lasted for 5.5 years on that you also had run through from there. You could apply from F two level from ST one toe. Um, training is chemical pathology. They have now got rid of the F two entry on changed it to just come and change names, just chemical pathology but they have also expanded Who can apply? So not only is it the I am teachers, but it is also people who have done piece, um, people of the people who have finished a CC s S O Q course them people who have finished thie first part of anesthetic trading, and then people have successfully done, um GP training. And then also, whatever broad based training is, which seems to be, like, kind of a sort of like GP meats. I am tea type thing. Um, but so So So, uh so I'm not entirely sure. And certain I will I will confess to what extraneous. But basically, if you've done any of these things that you can apply straight to be an STD three is chemical pathology. Um, why have they changed it to be that I'm not entirely searching? Um, I like I suspect that it might be a because we weren't getting money. People applying from F two because they didn't really know what it was then or we didn't have, like, the drawers, which might be a bit more of a more of a draw. My husband says the drawer of chemical pathology might be. It's more mundane. Major nature where after you spend your time of awards or and GP or peach trading on the road is, um, things do you think about it? I can't keep going like this. I need I need a better specialty and then you go chemical pathology. Now that sounds good. Whereas before it was like, Do I really want to be sitting at a computer screen all day? People go, Well, you guessed that Sling busted the boards know anymore. Um, but as I said, it's different things to different people. Um, so So that's that. So what were the interviews like? So I did actually do the ST pre interviews for metabolic medicine, and I was successful, but the job would have been in it in a different city up. So I chose joker feet to go for the ST one entry. So that was 2 15 minute interviews we were given time to look at. The clinical case is prior to the um so I think we had 15 minutes, maybe 30 minutes. We sat and we we looked at, were given the scenarios. We sat very looked at them, had a fake on then we went into our into our interviews, so that so in each interview there was one clinical case. Each I think they tend to set as, like, one electrolyte disturbance or something which will probably be so hyper sodium. Potassium, calcium, magnesium, either hypo or hyper the ones um, on that one would be an endocrine question. So I would say from probably the most the most. Think about what the most common things would be. So cortisol, maybe cook. Um, court is all fire. I'd diabetes, I would say. Probably does the boats common once, maybe a cons. Um, and then there and then and then each stage one of them was clinical governance. Um, so what? You know, what questions do you expect for political governance? What? It's going well, Governance. What is date X? Why is it important? What quips have you done? What? What? What was the important part of the quick? Tell me about the PDS. A cycle. Plus it's of things on them portfolio, um, which also involves commitment to specialty. Um, I would say a lot of it sounds talking to other people. Will said interviews that the commitment to specialty is mostly assessing whether or not you know what chemical pathologist does and what the day looks like. Have you actually thought about this? Have you just supplied, um because a lot of people don't know what chemicals for the GI is, um, on because a lot of people don't know what chemicals colleges, many medical students, medical schools, it isn't recovered very well. Um, they're not really expecting that. You'll be like, I have wanted to be a chemical pathologist since I was three, and that's what I am focused my way on. I've done 10,000 quits, and I managed to have a chemical pathology rotation. Which do you have? Which do exist but are quite uncommon. Um, and I have done this and that, uh, they don't really expect that you'll have managed to do that, but they will probably expect that you'll have a least talk to some time for just maybe managed to get into the lab and see what they do going to a clinic. Which, to be honest, I should be that hard to try and find your way to a lipid clinic or a metabolic bone clinic. Open it. Or, uh, I might be harder to get to an inborn areas clinic because know every central, that's those. But there is probably somewhere some somewhere that you can find yourself in a lipid thing. We're fine. Uh, a friendly chemical villages somewhere near you. And then I would say the main thing is in the clinical cases, especially, is to think like chemical pathologists. When they give you these blood results and say, What do you think of them? Things yourself? Are these really rough results? Um, like, you know, is my hyping a treatment patient, actually, hype on a treatment course It's, you know, hyponatremia. Um, does my my high court, like is the is the lower court soul. Actually, no court solar. Someone put them on steroids. Is is the high cortisol actually high court or has someone like given them a given them a dose? A giant dose of me felt credit and then taking the blood, You know, that sort of thing is they're on artifact somewhere because that is what we think. And then obviously you have to, like, double the clinical things are, but they're not gonna be. They're not going to expect you to be able to come up with some bizarre diagnosis in board our diagnosis that only a chemical politics get because, as I said, all of that, you look at what a lot of people who have been exposed been. They're going to be giving you questions that that a drippy trainee and or I empty training or pizza training or any statist would be able to answer because they're not going to expect you to have done. There is no chemical pathology really trading up that you'll have done per so I don't think that they're likely to give you a lipid question, even though most of us will like lipids is one of the few things that chemical pull it just made me do. Um, if they do, I'm very sorry. I feel like it's probably unlikely I would probably focus on electrolyte disturbances and endocrine because those are things you see on the wards or your training. Otherwise, I would still, um, and as I said, we do lots of blood tests and we have to be improved. Separate all those all those results anyway, competition ratios, and it'll be something people tend to be interested in. Go back. Um as you can see, is not particularly competitive. Um, I would have applied in 2020. I think I was number 16 of the interviews, and I was the last person to interview that day, which tracks about their, um, there than in 2018 to 1090. They're actually less people applying. There were posts. Um, so it's not particularly competitive. Maybe I am slowly managing to chip away and get people to know that we exist. I guess you look, the question becomes, if you're so interesting, if it's such a great job, why, I just know one apply, I think, because no one knows that it exists. And we sound pretty bored. Um, but as I said, I I think the main thing is to is it. The main thing is, though, the work life balance is the drill, so they will probably be getting more people as more people know what it is. People want to know of things you do when you're trading. Um, these are the sort of the specialty things that they put on ah for for in the in the curriculum. So being able to leave the laboratory managed laboratory uh huh. Be able to make sure the laboratories being used cost effectively helping clinicians, uh, doing multivitamins. This Claritin meetings contribute effectively to the management report comes in patients is mostly like, as I was saying about helping interpret blood results, um, and then the clinical services. That's the little picnic. Metabolic bone panic. Um, yeah. Trading. Lot of people worry about the exams. Yes, the exams. A difficult, But I have done pot one for for, um RCP. And that was also not very fun. Um, so I would say that yes, it is difficult. And if you looked at the pass, wait for the Farxiga passport one that was done in September, Um, the outer prostrate of 35%. But I suspect that I think most people pass on the second or third try. She tends to be, which is frustrating up. But if you get time to at least do your revising jury during, um, while you've been during your training, that's a lot better. Um, on Lots of people fail and Marcy people want any at at some point as well. I'm I'm sure lots of people fail for Pete's and And what other specialties do it on their first time as well. And then for part two, it's practical skills. Module is currently on line at the moment is mostly it's mostly be given being given up interpreting, interpreting data on. Then there's Clinical Scientific Management Skills module, which is, um, for for medics. They'll give us a clinical skills, a clinical question. Similar. Similar to like what? You'd expect it in interview type thing. Survivor. Uh, when they ask you to talk about it and then the written component module is it is ah, interpreting a journal article. Nothing. Uh, what time is it? We've only been going half hour up. That is the That is the end of my presentation. But I have specifically, but I prepared to answer is many questions is you have or what I may know covered. Feel free to ask any questions. Hi, Jessica. About was brilliant. Really, really useful, actually. And there is the question, um, I'm not sure if you know Beyonce. It's just that someone is going to be applying for Campath with, um interview coming up. That's I think you do. You Do you know if if the full m. O. C p is definitely required a tool for I think I want you to talk, doctor. So according to the I think according to it, you have to have passed by the time you by the time you start your job, you have to have finished. I'm are you had done the full MRC pee, Um, for it? Yes, but I think like you can apply if you still got our part. If you if you still got part two and paces and you and you can have the drops, I'm not entirely sure that might be worth emailing HC about that. Um, I think you have to have it perfect. No, I think that's a good idea. I do think, um, I think I think when I read through the person criteria, it's like in order to apply, you have to have dump on, and you have to be on track to have finished march, um, bases prior to starting your post so you don't have to have done it prior to applying for prior to having your interview. But you do have a butt and you be interviewing around march, so you have until you'd have until August to start my guess. Right. Um, fine. Now, a call with a question in the dressing is then pick the reason that off drew you towards chemical pathology. The Children. Um, so I have started out by wanting to do infectious diseases. Um, and so I should have been my my all my medical shoot Cool patients for that, Um, I had some posters in it. Um, when I was in fo, I actually did have a chemical diligence is my educational supervisor. Um, and he was very lovely. Every time I would go, I would go. He giving me, like, a little mini tutorial and a tour around the lab, which is always nice. I told my husband about it, and he nearly nearly applied to the drug. I have, um uh, on. Yes. So, um, so sort of was in the back of my mind from there also. Um, my medical school did do quite a lot of complex ology on Lap Edison as part of things, so we actually get some tutorials by chemical villages and things. Small group featuring. So it was sort of was in the back of my mind. And then, as I did for medical training on got ground down by not being able to having to fight tooth and nail few minutes and then being like you're about to go to clinical dear. Sorry, someone we have to. We have to move people around. You can't have your clinic. Um, can't go to trading because there are enough for you on the wards and things like that. I want it started wanting to jump ship. Um on I said was thinking off public health as well, which is very competitive. Um, around the same time of a husband was having similar thoughts about what he wanted to do. So he actually end up owning just phoning the duty by chemist. Ah, on. Say, is there any when I could talk to about come up with for Gee, I'm thinking about maybe applying from four extra metabolic medicine on someone going. Hang on just a second. I'm city next to the TPD. Um and so he met up with her. So he had a long chat with her, and she was like, Oh, you know, we are thinking about opening up in ST one post. Um but then he But then he ended up getting a, um, academic apology jump on. Then by the time the next year came around, um, the post wrist, I contacted her again and found out opposed to Slope. And, um and so I applied to chemical pathology. And so I'm happy and Sheffield not having to rotate sitting at a lab while I was on badly with my husband. What other things that I really like It was helping. I was helping him to excel spreadsheets for his non lab data and thanks for his research project and thing. I was like, You know what? This is something that I would much be much happier doing rather than rushing around the ward's doing nights not having time for lunch, that sort of thing. So it was a very round about. It was a very roundabout thing on on my first day when I went into metabolic bone clinic. But the real question is like, How did you find the troubles If I took was like but no. But how did you know that? Can Lower GI was an actual So yes, who is the chemical pathologists? Even the chemical pledges air quite surprised that he finds when they find someone who wants to be chemical apology. Home watch. Really interesting, actually. Yeah, I know it's true. I don't think it's, um, publicized as much as it could be chemical pathology. So it's really interesting to together inside about what it involves. Um, on those really coincidence with another, they were sitting sitting. Accept it. DPT very small has has a very small specialty. Now the TPD is is isn't hold, so that wouldn't happen again here. But I'm, uh I would say that if you are interested in chemical pathology, that is the way to do it is the way to find the way to find it is to call whoever should you to buy chemist within office hours. There will be someone who will either be a chemical pathologist will be a clinical scientist who are sort of like they start out being doing by medical sciences as their training. And then they do like a special specialty training pathway. Um and so they become and they do all the things that we do, except they do the lab stuff. They don't tend to do platelets and things. I think that might be some of them trading to do clinics, but generally they do the lab management interpreting essays they get a lot more involved on, like the lab, the lab side and under spect Very specialist. I say things, but no, I'll trust have chemical pathologist. Some do just have clinical Scientists of those medical scientists will know, Um, who the closest chemical cripple it just would be, I would say most teaching hospitals probably. Do You have chemical pathologists? And then it's the district generals that may or may not have a camp religious. They may just have a, um they may just have a clinical scientist, but the clinic and scientists should be able to to sign post you to the nearest chemical village ist on. Then you can try and find them. Really? I could pretty and not. And they'll be be handy. Anyone who's they're wanting to find out more. Um, and so fine. So your your job. What would you say? You've enjoyed the most, um, from the pinnacle. Can't go. Um, So what do you mean? Like what part of complicity? Specialty. Um, what do I Yeah. Just any aspect Tree. Let me aspect. So I enjoy being the duty biochemists up. It's not, um, looking for looking at the results. You get to be quite knows, you trying to figure out what's there and what is it? Um, on. But I It sounds a bit daunting when you start, but, you know, being being charged, um, of all these blood test results, however, ah, they I was very well protected life, first for trading. I wasn't doing This is we didn't let me let me do anything on my own until like, December. I started in August. I see. I just like a little mini mini open book open exam, where it was like, if you don't know what the answer is. And the good thing is to say, I will contact the senior first. Um, so, yes, it was very different to like, say, my husband to start doing quality, I think had, like, maybe a multi shadow. We had a look quite long fluttering before that, um, I quite enjoyed left the clinic. Sleep clinics. Where? My lot more interesting than I thought there would be. Um, start with metabolic bone is okay, but hum drum, um, inborn errors. Not as exciting as you would think. Oh, okay, actually, and, um, in terms of challenges off a specialty of anything that you've stopped come across a day today, but people might want to consider when applying to it. Um, so I think especially the moment with the pandemic. Um, it's been hard to meet other people with their so few of us. I'm actually, it's actually quite unusual that there's a second chemical apology, Trade E and my trust at the moment, um, the other one, the other one, the people who started with me would be There's one by herself from Hall. There's one by herself from your think that might be two people in leads. Um, so it's quite lonely in that way. We have we have a little what's up for the three of us to start at the same time and that I started the disporting server for, for for training, clinical sign, clinical scientists and the chemical different company policy trainees that we could still get to know each other a little bit better. Um, but it has been quite lonely from that point of view. Um, some, sometimes people quite often ask about sort of life was consultant post like there are a lot of malformations of labs and things on a zit end up at the consultant that you are sort of competing with the clinical scientists for jobs. But I think that there are so few chemical pathology trainees that the chemical pathologist do tend to get jobs, and they're they're certainly jobs where they prefer to have have a medic around because of the stevia Can do Lipitor Nixon on those clinics as well. Um, but those are probably the main, the main challenges, but at the moment, risks for So we're so undersubscribed. I don't think finding a job is that much of a problem. Okay, brilliant. Thank you. Um, Onda, um And in terms of your portfolio, or even in general, anything you might recommend people do during medical school. I know you touched on a couple of things off. I mean, you mentioned you were involved in a couple of things. I think him so, um, advice twice for people to do in medical school in particular, like project by years. Or, um so I mean, I guess if you're if, if you want to be way, are very so because chemical pathologist involved interpreting blood tests and things. It's very easy to sort of spin anything to be sort of relevant to commit pathology if he really wants to go down, that I've been committed for this for a long time, that I guess you could choose a project that I had something to with inboard hours or lipids up specifically. Otherwise, if you're hedging your bets, which I would expect many people as a medical student would be, I would have anything to do with, like looking at blood, looking at a blood test like a cyst like I don't know, like looking at truck proponents and Hamal assists or thing you know, potassium's and Ramada cysts. Or let test urine tests. You know, the things that have to do with tests of some description. Um, you will be able to put that down on something to do with allergy, and then you could also do it in the other specialty that you are also probably considering that you're doing sort of two for one pipe thing assay, I said. Chemical religious don't really expect much from the commitment to specialty other than I have one and talk to a chemical pathologist on I know what they are talking about on. I've walked through the A pin to the lab. I know the sort of people who I know how the sample comes into the lab and leaves on, goes into the machine. Sort of. They're not expecting detail. Were just expecting you to be aware of it. Mainly, um, because they want to know that you have actually feel about this rather than just going. That's a specialty. Um, all apply for it because they have no one else. If I but you can spend many things into commitment specialty, I just like they're locked us for blood tests. Lots of tests. Not there. You know, the nice thing is very true. You can do a blood test and more things. Country. Okay, Brilliant. Um, one that that's common a lot. Um, thank you. And the husband really reading you select study. Um, in terms of the questions, I can ah see any of this with a form. A swell. Um, So yeah. No, it Thanks again on, but I think with my ended them They said anything else you'd like? God, just a good I can't think of anything. Apply. Yes, Ah, I think I think it is it. It's a It's a specialty. That should get more more more recognition than it does on You can see that in the competition ratios. I made it sound really amazing. I don't think I'm overhyping it that much. Always. Yeah. Become pathologist. We'll tend to over hyper specially slightly. I don't think I'm over. I get still. Watch that people look at the competition ratio and then go. This makes no sense. Problem is that people think, Oh, I'm working a lot of what I think we actually have to use this, do the tests and on things, and they don't know what we do. All right, um, thank you again. Brilliant one. Okay. Um well, I got scared and no, you know, people on apply to bring Thank you so much. Have a great evening.