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So, yeah. Oh, hello everyone. Um I'm Isabelle, welcome to Mr applying to specialty series. Um And this evening we're talking about pediatrics. Um So I'm gonna hand over to our speaker. Now, if you would like to ask questions, please do, just pop them in the chat and then we'll ask them as we go or we'll ask them at the end. Um No question is silly. So just ask away. Um So I'll hand over to Sarah. Hi, everyone. I'm Sarah. I'm one of the uh ST ones at Whittington Health Trust. Um And I started this uh September. Um So I'm just gonna be giving you a bit of information about applying to Peds. What sort of that involves? Um any things that I, so I found useful, um Any tips I have to give you guys. Um as, as well said, if you have any questions, please let me know and I'll try and answer them as best as I can. Ok. So just an overview of the content that we're gonna be talking about. So the first one is about the application timeline, which something you're probably aware of. Um And then we're gonna look into what sort of questions that are gonna be asked. Um, in terms of the application for your for shortlisting essentially, or you might have heard of it as being referred to as White Space questions. Um And then we'll go into interview and sort of what questions will be asked in the interview, what you should sort of, um what you need to look out for, what things you can do to prepare and then some tips as well that I found useful and then questions. But again, if you have any pressing questions, then please feel free to ask and then, and interrupt, I'm ok with that. Ok. So some of you guys might already be aware that applications are already open on oral. So if you haven't set up an account or applied, please do as soon as possible. Um I actually underestimated how long it would take me to fill in the application, especially when it came to doing my whitespace questions. Um So please do it as soon as you can. That way you have enough time to, to read it through, have other people read it. Um And not only when, when it comes to whitespace questions, but as part of the sort of eligibility criteria, you have to write down all the jobs you've done and, and that kind of thing takes a bit of time. So my advice would be to start as soon as possible. Um Then the shortlisting process happens between the 20th of December to the 15th of January. Um And then that's just when people will be looking through your application and scoring it and I'll go into detail um about the different scores and what, what criteria they use. Um And then you should be expecting to get interview invites, hopefully um on the 22nd of January and then the interview window, it does span over a month or so between first of February to the eighth of March. And then you can also preference around that time and then offers around mid March the 19th of March. Um And I had, I was reading on the uh R CPC website and it looks like there will be around 440 posts this year. Ok. So when it comes to short listing, um so basically what happens is you make an application on oral, you put in your details, you know, um you have to go through like what medical school you went to. It's very similar to when you, when those who are F one F two doctors, it's very sim similar to when you are applying to foundation training. Um And then you have to write down sort of what jobs you've done so far. Um Once that bit is done, and I think that bit is the same for whatever specialty you're applying to. Um the one that's specific to peas is the sort of pea specific shortlisting questions. Um And with these questions. I will, I will repeat this so many times throughout this webinar, you don't need to have previous experience with P ES to, to answer these questions, you know, they won't, they won't basically scrutinize and say, you know, those who did P ES will score higher than those who didn't, they don't do it that way. Um So that's just important information for all of you to know because not everyone would have done a Peds job in F one or F two. Um And this, these whitespace questions are required for shortlisting and the total score you get out of this is 60 that's based on two separate, I think it's competes consultants um marking it and the total uh is 30. So it, it is out of 60 basically. OK. Um This, I literally took it directly from the um like the R CPC H website and I, I've posted a few links towards the end. Um Just to give an idea of how they mark your shortlisting uh questions. Um But I'll just go through them in detail. So the first one is additional qualifications and this is pretty straightforward. You either have it if you don't. Um you think something to note is that they don't, they unfortunately don't really give you any points for intercalated BSE. Um So this one is really if you have a post graduate diploma certificate, you get one point or if you have a master's phd and MDMA, then you have two points. Um, not, not everyone has this, I certainly didn't have this when I applied. So I think it's one of those things where it's, it's two points out of 30 but you can make it up in other areas. Um The next question that they ask is basically about transferrable clinical skills. Um And this one I spent a little bit of time on. Um, so it's basically what you need to do is you need to give some examples. II think it's, I think I gave two or you can give three on the clinical skills that you've required throughout your foundation training. Um And again, you don't need to have previous experience in peds to, to sort of list these clinical skills, but try as much as possible to link it to pediatrics. Um and try and explain how it helped you develop as a doctor. Um And what sort of things um you gained from it. An example is what II emphasized my communication skills and I was like throughout my foundation training, I was sort of ex exposed to. Um you know, II did do a Peds job. But then I said, you know, even in my psych job, I spoke to teenagers, that kind of thing. Um And that kind of helped me gain the necessary skills to be able to um communicate with, with Children from the age of, I don't know, like three up until the age of 18. I mean, that's important in people because you are exposed to Children of different ages and you have to sort of tailor your communication skills towards that. Um, so that's one example you can give other ones are, um, which I'm sure, you know, you, you guys will probably have so many different skills that you, um, that you can talk about other ones being time management, which is really important impedes because, you know, you have to learn how to prioritize things. Um You can also talk about practical skills as well. Um For example, can you, if you've done like lumbar punctures and things, um it, it any, you can literally talk about anything but as long as you um back it up with a sort of effect on how it helped you develop, um that, that works like the only thing I would say is don't just list it. Um which is why I just said, give maybe two or three examples that way you can explain each school in detail um because they don't like it if you just describe and that's it, they like you actually backing it up with things. So that's clinical skills. Um Then the next one is clinical experience. So that's more so um you kind of have to give an example of um maybe a case that you were exposed to in your foundation training or something. Uh That doesn't have to be a sort of like a significant event. Um but just a clinical experience and sort of what that sort of taught you and this is, they love, they love you reflecting on things um just and emphasizing on what you learn from that experience. Um And again, even though it doesn't have to be in peas, it's quite nice to link it to peas and how that um taught you how to be a good pediatrician. Um One example is um for example, if you, if um which I'm pretty sure you have experience in adult medicine, say dealing with having to um be in a tough sort of a palliative care situation, for example. Um And that sort of helped develop or I don't know, talking to um family members and, and also it sort of help in terms of your soft communication skills. Um but help reflect and I don't know, just, just literally talk about any experience um and just back it up with a reflection. Um So the next few, um basically this one is quality improvement in audit and I know as part of foundation training, you all have to have done um an audit or a quick. Um So this one should be relatively straightforward. Um In this one, you, you just basically choose and the, the quip that you did, what your role was it in what um your role was in it, what you learned from it. If you were able to take it any further if you were able to present it in sort of a, a regional, sort of national conference or anything. Um And what, what skills you learn from it again. It's one of those things where you shouldn't really just say, ok, I did this in, in my f one year. Um And that was it, you kind of really have to explain what you gained from it. Um Who did you work with? Um What sort of things did it help you learn in terms of time management, skills, presentation skills, teaching skills, that kind of thing? Um And then the next section is leadership, which II found a bit difficult initially because I was like, I don't really know if I have any examples, but actually, if you really us, in, in terms of us doctors, we've, we've done a lot of things that would sort of help with, with leadership and management. Um whether you were sort of a road coordinator trainee, I even talked about my time in medical school. So um II had a role in sort of a, a society and I was a secretary um for teddy bear hospital if you guys know about it. Um And that I was able to link that to peds because I was like, you know, it, it's a society where you, you go out to different schools and you help teach Children and help um teach them about, you know, the body and, and things like that. So it doesn't really necessarily have to be during your F one and f two years. Um But I'm sure if you, you, you would, you would have had some sort of leadership or management skills. Trust me, it's, it's there. Um That's why I said to start early because these things do take some time um to, to remember but even to like write down and, and be able to formulate it. Um and surprise spies, the thing you have to do is that you, you just have to show how this will help you um in peace and basically how it will help you become a good pediatrician. One thing to also mention in this one is that it doesn't necessarily have to be in medicine. Um Say if you uh in terms of extracurricular, if you're a member of a sports team, I don't know if you're a, a captain of your football team or something like that or if you've um ii don't anything else other than sports like that would work as well. Um It doesn't necessarily have to be within medicine and actually, it's, if you, if you do, so if you do write something down that's in medicine, that's quite good because it shows um that you do have extracurricular activities and extra hobbies and that isn't just rushed to the side. Um So that, that's good. There is um in the webs R CPC H website which I have linked in there is a good breakdown of exactly how many points you will get um compared to sort of what thing sort of what's expected. So, you know exactly what you need to write down. But here I've just sort of described the main things you need to do. And the next section is academic achievements. Um This one is more in terms of research. So, have you been involved in a project? Were you part of sort of in data collection? If so what was the outcome? Did you present it? Did you go to conferences? Um You get maximum points for stating that you, how you were a first or last author in a publication? Um But again, that's not essential because they recognize that not everyone has publications. I certainly wasn't a first or last author in a publication. So that's not something that's expected of you. Um But if you do have it, then you get extra sort of brownie points for that. Um And then the next section is teaching um which again, as doctors, we all do a bit of teaching, especially when it comes to like medical school, um medical students. Um So you get maximum points sort of designing, teaching or leading a teaching and also being able to show the feedback that you've been given and what you did with that feedback and any changes you made and how that will help you going forward. Um Again, if you don't necessarily have had to, you know, I design something but just mention even if you know, the bedside teaching that you guys would probably give to medical students, um, that works as well. And then the final thing is, um, the supporting statement and the question they do ask, I'm pretty sure is what makes you suited to a career in pediatrics. Um, and this is where you sort of will describe your personal qualities and your attributes and how that would make you a good pediatrician. Um Again, I wouldn't just list things, I would sort of describe them and then back it up with evidence. Um So things that you've done and also how that would help you in terms of um being able to, to become a good consultant, pediatrician. For example, one other thing that you can mention in this statement is your motivation towards feed. So what you've done in the past or what you're doing now to help you um further develop um your interest in pediatrics, um literally just this is a statement that you use to just sell yourself. And I know um that can sometimes be difficult and I think as doctors, we ourselves quite a bit. Um So this is a good section for you to just be like, OK, I'm, I'm good at this and this and this and this and I think this is a good section to have other people read as well because, you know, they can also list things, positive attributes that you might not have thought of. So um one tip that I would always suggest is get other people to read it as well. And then I just ended up saying these examples because again, they just to further emphasize, they don't like you just listing things, they like you backing it up with examples. Um So that was the short listing, all the white space section. Um Do you guys have any questions so far or should I move on to interview? I, I'll just have a look at the chart. I don't think there's any Q oh There is two questions. Oh, let me have a look. Um Sarah's asked would previous career experience count for this uh prior to med school. Um So do you mean in time like before? So for example, with school and things, I think maybe Sarah, did you do something before med school? Like another another job leadership roles before med school? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I would say yes, I would definitely list previous experience because even though it was before medical school, that still counts as something um especially if it's sort of pe related, I think that would never go unnoticed. Um I think it, when it comes to things like leadership and things because we were probably all, I don't know, in, in school, some, some sort of prefect. I mean, I don't know if that would count. Um But definitely if you had sort of a significant leadership role before medical school, I would always put that. Yeah, I think so. Yeah, I think life experience sets you apart as well. So, definitely. And then Aisling has said, does previous BSE so not intercalating degree have any point. So I'm assuming maybe Aisling did a pe before medical school. Do you know if? Yeah, I, it wasn't on the, I think, I don't think it was on the list to be honest. Um, that might be something to ask, uh, the, the college about. But II think the ones that give you one point is any sort of post grad diploma that gives you one point and then for two either masters or phd or sort of ma or something. So, I'm not sure if that's probably the case, I think with other specialties as well, you don't actually get points for your Bachelor's, which I agree is a shame. Yeah. Ok. Cool. That's all the questions for now. So, um, yeah, carry on. Ok. Um, so interview. So when you get sort of a interview invitation, hopefully the good thing is that you kind of will know and they have, they on the website, it does stay what to expect in the interview. So it's so you should be able to prepare for this interview quite well. Um, but basically what it consists of is a, in total, it's a 40 minute interview. You have two stations and each station lasts 20 minutes. Um And within that station, you will have two scenarios. Um they tend to group it together. So it will, it will um tend to be, the first station would be communication and career motivation and the second station would be a clinical scenario along with the reflection. Um They don't necessarily tend to give it to you in order. So I think my first station was the clinical scenario and the reflection. Um But they will always be paired together if that makes sense. Um And then in total, you would get 100 and 60 points for the interview and that being 40 points per scenario. Um And then in terms of who is interviewing you, there'll be two panel members and they're both consultants. Um Sometimes they say that you might have an extra person who's, who's just there to observe and actually won't have any influence in, in terms of scoring. So if you do see a third person that's who it will be. Um And then again, just to emphasize that you don't really need any prior peds knowledge um for the interview. So in terms of the birth scenario, it's uh in the communication station basically. Um before you go in, oh, sorry, I didn't mention this. It's a, it's a virtual interview. Um So before you start the virtual interview, they'll give you five minutes. Um And they'll give you a scenario where it will be sort of a role play situation. Um And they'll explain that sort of scenario to you. So you have five minutes to preparing your head, the sort of things you asking for looking for. Um and usually what it will involve is uh explaining a condition or explaining management or reasons for an intervention and the conditions that they give are quite common conditions. So you should have prior knowledge about these conditions. Um An example would be to explain the role of an EpiPen to a parent um who had come in with anaphylaxis. I think the one I had in my interview was um I had a, a teenager with a newly diagnosed diabetes. Um and I had to just explain to her what is to be expected and um use of sort of insulin and what and what she'll expect going forward. Um And this station is not necessarily focused on your sort of clinical knowledge, but it's more in terms of communication. So you need to focus on active listening, um listen to the sort of the, the role player. So in terms of the verbal cues, um let the role player finish. Um the what saying don't interrupt. Um Make sure you really do listen because that's what the um interviewers will look out for. So it's not necessarily them looking out for um how, well you've sort of what, how well knowledge you have about using an EpiPen, but it's just listening to the concerns of the patient or the parent and things like that, which I'm sure you guys have done so many communication stations in medical school. So this one should be relatively straightforward. Um As long as you actively listen and, and you show, I know it's quite difficult on a virtual interview with in terms of like non verbal cues and, and use of body language and things. But as try it as much as you can. Um just to say in this station, there will be three people. So it will be the role player who will be an actor and then you'll have the two interviewers um who will be, you know, marking you. Um And then the next part of the station is the career motivation. Um And this is basically again, um showing, showing your commitment to peds, what you've done in the past to sort of help. Um you, you know, get to this stage, what you understand about peds and, you know, the difficult parts of the specialty. It's not all gonna be sort of flowers and roses, there's gonna be some really difficult situations that you'll have to be in and what you've um sort of, you know, been able to do so far uh to handle these difficult situations that you might have been in before. Um This again, will uh you, you just sort of need to explain how, why you'll make a good pediatrician. Um Sometimes you, they will mention, you know, who's your inspiration or who inspired you to do pediatrics. Um II don't think I got asked that question, but that's something that other people have mentioned. Um But this question, a lot of times they ask it in the interview, what achievement are you most proud of so far? It doesn't necessarily again have to be something in medicine so you can, you know, describe anything. And I think this one is just um uh uh a part of the interview that they just want to sort of get to know, you make sure that, you know, you're, you're kind that, that, that you are well suited to be a pediatrician, basically. Um this is a really good station to prepare in advance. Um And you can use a lot of what you uh wrote in your shortlisting questions or your whitespace um questions for this. Um II believe um that the interviewers actually don't have access to your portfolio, so they won't really know what you've written. So this is basically a really good um part of the interview to be able to, you know, to, to, to prepare for essentially um and then the second station. So the first part will be a clinical scenario. Um And this is one that II think I found this the most. Uh So this is the one that you can prepare for in advance, but obviously, you don't know what you're gonna get um in the interview. So it can be the scary one. Um, but essentially it's a case based scenario. Um, what they'll do is they will, they'll give you a case and they'll, they'll expect you to, um, be able to describe the issues and also go through a management plan. It's important to know that they won't ask you, uh, give you a scenario or ask you to do anything beyond sort of f two knowledge. Um, and you, they won't, um, give you something that you wouldn't have done already or you wouldn't have known about because they're not expecting you to be specialists already. Um It's very much as an ST one level or an sho level in terms of the management. So always remember when you're in this situation, when to escalate, um you know, that you're not on your own, you can always call for help. Um Use, it depends on the setting that you're in and, and they will sort of tell you that before, but most of the time you will be in an A&E setting. So use the nurses that around you use the healthcare assistance. So this isn't a thing where you're expected to do everything yourself. Um If I give you the example of what I had, I think I had a, a child who came into A&E with sickle crisis. Um And they, they, they didn't expect to know everything about a sickle cell crisis. Um This is just all I, because I read my feedback after it was just making sure that I knew, you know, making sure that everything that the child was safe. So taking the A to e approach, making sure I escalate, making sure I use the nurse, nursing staff around me, the HC and everything. So as long as you're systematic with your approach, as long as you're safe with your approach, I think that you should be fine in whatever scenario you get given. And then the final component of the interview is reflection. And this is what I've written in the slide is literally the exact thing that they say all in, in every interview. So it won't change, please, could you briefly describe a significant clinical event you were involved with in um or observe and discuss your learning from it? Um And how you and you can use this uh practice in your daily work. And this is something again, you can use your reflective piece from your portfolio and I certainly did. Um So you, this is something that again that you can prepare quite well in advance um for and as long as you sort of are able to explain what you've learned from this scenario or situation. Um And then perhaps if you've managed to incorporate this learning in, in this, in similar situations that have happened, then, then you should be fine. Um So yeah, I would prepare in well in advance for this. So those are the main um components of the interview. Um any questions about that before we move on i in the chart at the moment. Um But yeah, keep, keep going and then uh everybody just keep popping your questions in there and we'll go through them when they come through. OK, cool. Um So this part is just a bit of a few tips which I probably have already spoken about. Um But in terms of portfolio is start early, don't leave it last minute because it can take you a long time, especially editing it and, and send you, send it to other people that they can read. It can be those, you know, um medics, non medics as well, so you can get different perspectives, but I wouldn't send it to too many people because otherwise you're just gonna have to a lot of people chipping in and a lot of changes will be made and then you'll read it and then you'll be like, actually, this doesn't sound like me at all. Um So as long as there are a few people, if you have, you know, an supervise your educational supervisor or consultant, um that will be also be good. Uh But yeah, just to get other someone else, at least to have a look through it. Um and see and you know, people will be happy to list your good attributes. So um I would always get others involved. Uh One thing, this is more when it comes to preferencing in terms of ranking jobs um obviously rank the jobs that you want. But I wouldn't like if you, if you are comfortable with um branching out a bit further, I wouldn't limit yourself to just one specific area because what will happen is um once the offers come through, you can upgrade. So if say for example, you, you rank, you got a, you got a job that you ranked, I don't know uh 50th for example. Um But you, but there were upgrades available. Um If you, if you limit yourself, you might not be able to get that upgrade if that makes, I don't know if I'm making any sense, but essentially don't just rank the things that you just want on 100%. If you're open to branching out a bit, then then rank those. Um and in your portfolio, which I had already mentioned was don't just list things, make sure your statements are backed up by evidence, there is a character limit in the portfolio. So that's why when it comes to um listing things, for example, in clinical skills, don't just list five skills because you won't be able to go into detail that much because of the character limit. Um But as long as you always back your statements, um that's, that's basically what they're looking for, being able to like sort of justify things and then tips for the interview. So this one, the first one is really important because I made the mistake of not booking my interview as soon as possible. So I had to end up in a random slot. Um I mean, it was virtual so it didn't matter, but it was like a random three pm slot on a day that I didn't really want. So make sure as soon as that in invite comes out to book your interview as soon as possible. What will happen is um because it is virtual, it's easier for you for interview interviewers to come from many different parts of the country. So I think my interviewers were from the West Midlands and they were really nice. Um But yeah, just make sure you book your slot as soon as possible to get the date and the time that you want. Um And as I mentioned before, when it comes to reflection and career motivation, these are things that you would already know what to expect. So make sure you prepare it beforehand. Um Because you know, it, it, it really helps in the interview if you are, if you are prepared and you know that the questions that they're gonna ask there isn't really any reason for you not to have prepared. Um And when they ask uh when you're sort of out in the clinical bit, um just always remember to escalate, you're not in this alone and especially in peds, they, they wanna make sure that you're safe. Um And that you don't only take medicine into your own hands. And then there are always people around to always make sure you escalate. Um And in the clinical scenario, don't forget to use as well for those that you don't know who that is. They love using it in Pedes and it's basically just a handover tool. Um And uh so it stands for situation background assessment and recommendation and that just gives you, it gives you sort of the ability to make things more succinct and clear when you're handing over to someone um and impedes, they would love it if you, if you use that in the clinical scenarios that will give you good points. Um And this, this, these are just links that II had used when I was applying. But also when I, when I made this sort of presentation and it, and the R CPC H website has like really detailed um guides in terms of applications. So I would really use it because they literally show the scores, the exact um sort of, they list the exact scores that, that they give for what in terms of the application. So I would use that, have it open when you're writing um your shortlisting answers. Um because it's a good guide to go by. Um And medi body was also something that I did use and I found it just to be a, like a, it's more succinct because the R CPC H because it has so many um sort of tools it's, it's quite long. So the medi body one was, uh, a nice sort of concise guide. Um, but, you know, there, there's, there are sort of tools and, and guides. What, in the internet, like, wherever you go, one thing is there are sort of paid ones as well. So, like, I think anybody have like an interview question b which I didn't really use. But I mean, it's, it's available if you want to. Ok, I think that was everything. Um Any questions we have got a question, I think it's multiple questions in one. So Abdul Rahman said regarding the white space questions, how would I be scored for audit and quip, do I need to show evidence? Do I need to list the quip audit I completed only or, or could it be ongoing projects? Um So in terms of the scores, there is a specific breakdown on the um the website I think, is it this one? Let me see if I click on this. OK. Well, we'll powerpoint won't let me do it. But the on the website there is a, a framework which shows exact scores um in terms of evident, you don't need to show any evidence, but obviously, like, make sure you actually did, you know, do the audit and things because it is just in terms of professionalism and honesty and things, you know, you don't need to evidence it at all. Um And then the other thing was Oh, and if it's not completed, that's fine. As long as you know, you are still involved in it and you can say it's still ongoing. And um what you can do as well is you can talk about it in the interview, be like, well, this audit is still ongoing, but XYZ kind of thing. Um So yeah, it doesn't have to be completed as long as you sort of mention it and explain your role in it and what you're learning from it. It should be fine. Awesome. Awesome. I wanted to ask you about how you prepared for the interview. Obviously, you gave us a really good breakdown of what's involved. Did you practice with people? Did you use any books? Like, what did you do? Yeah. So what I did was um I had a really good friend who was also applying um to peds and we just practiced together um in terms of what we, what we did is we had prepared the things we were able to prepare for. So the um the motivation and the reflection bit and we literally kept on asking each other that question and, and timed ourselves as well because it's a 10 minute station. So you just have to make sure you time. Um And then when it came to the clinical scenario bit, what I literally did was I went on, you know, like the nice s um and just went on the common presentation. So, like asthma anaphylaxis, um DKA seizures. So all the common sort of, um, presentations that you will in ps because although they don't specifically say you don't need to have prior peds knowledge for this, obviously, they're going to ask you a scenario that's peds related. So you kind of know what sort of things, what sort of scenarios they're going to ask that being said, I really didn't expect sickle crisis to come up in my interview. But like, even then um as no, because I, you at the end of uh I did learn about it in medical school and things. So I was able to um I didn't necessarily have to have that much knowledge in it, but as long as I use my A to e approach and things that was fine. So I would always just practice with other people. Um and then just know the common um presentations. Um And then what was, I mean for communication? Um That was the other thing was I had just looked at again, common sort of things. So like how to use an EpiPen um explaining. Uh I think they don't really ask you neonates for ST one, they don't ask a lot in ology. I had just had jaundice that's just really common like you even see in A&E. Um But yeah, just, just like a common sort of communication, like scenarios that you'd get. Um Yeah, but just practice, practice, practice. Yeah. And you didn't use any, like, books or courses or anything like that. No, I personally didn't like, I know that there are a lot of courses and books and, and paid question banks out there. Um, which you kind of like everyone, everyone has a different preferences. But, I mean, ii don't think I used any of that but, uh, having said that my, my other friend was ast one, a PST one at the time. So she, I think she had given me previous like some scenarios um that I looked at but yeah, I didn't use any of the, like the interview or things. Um Cool, cool. I have a question um from deep um with regards to the quip, um part of the portfolio, would you mention more than one quip or do you think it's good to focus um just on a single quip? Um What I did was I focused on a single quit but that was only because, um because you know how there is a uh a character limit, a word limit. Um You know, I had a few things to say about it, but if you have more than one, like, like, especially if you, you, you know, you've presented them or, you know, you've got a good outcome from them or learn not from them. II would always list more than one if you have the space for it. Um But one thing that I wouldn't do is I wouldn't say, say you had to, I wouldn't just list to and then run out of space. So you don't justify like explain each of them. You'd rather have one good quality um like explanation than having to. That's a bit like on the on the person and Yeah. OK, cool. Any final questions from anybody? Um I'll give you another minute. Um Any final questions and what can people do? Obviously the portfolios open now, um The focus is really, would you say on the White Space questions to, to nail those? Um Yeah, definitely. Um because with uh so when it comes to short, so long listing is basically just making sure you're eligible, you meet the eligibility criteria. Um So whoever puts in an application as long as you're eligible, you will get long listed short listing. Is that White Space part? So I would definitely place emphasis on spending a lot of time on that because that is essentially what will get you to that interview stage. Um And I double checked on the R CPC H website, but I think they still, so once you get the interview, um they still take into account your whitespace questions when it comes to your overall ranking. So, although more emphasis is placed on your interview score that still does play a role, so I would definitely spend time on it um because it will be a shame to like, you know, not, not put in, you know, an application that was like half done. Um And then you just losing out an interview space by just a few points. So I would definitely, I would definitely start now. Awesome. Ok. I think that is all the questions. Um I wanna say a massive thank you to you sir for giving up your evening to help everybody in their application. Um I I'm just gonna send through a feedback form so it would be really great if people could send in some feedback um and it will just help for future sessions that we do. Um And that's it really. Um So enjoy the rest of your evening and thanks again. Yeah, no problem. And thank you everyone and good luck with the applications. See you later, Sarah. Thank you. See you. Bye bye.