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Ok. Um Hi, everyone. Um I'm Stephanie. Um Thank you for inviting me to speak at your event today. Um Today, I'll basically apologize for the technical difficulties. First of all, um I'm not sure for some reason, um my screen is unable to share. So thank you very much to the organizers for co um presenting this powerpoint. Um But today, I'll essentially be talking um about my career journey and just to say that I guess that's um a few, there are many ways um people go about their careers, but I guess there's just some tips on how I went about doing it and how, where, how I got to where I am today. Um Next slide. So, um for those who don't know me, I'm a gastroenterologist. So I am a, I'm a post T six gastroenterologist who am now taking some time out of training uh to do my phd. So I'm also a clinical research fellow who's based at ST Mark's Hospital. Um So I'm in my first year of my phd and I'm actually based at Imperial College, London and um next slide. And originally I'm from Malaysia and I moved to this um country in 2009, 2008, 2009 for a levels. And um next flight. Thank you. And then I went to um university. I went to Cambridge. Um This is my beautiful college. I went to New College. Um Next please. And in Cambridge we intercalate just like imperial and just like many other London Universities. Um So I did my intercalation and did my bachelor's of arts. Um I did this in mechanisms of disease, which is essentially clinical pathology where we asked to do a dissertation. And I did this on um I was basically inspired by um one of my lecturers um who um talked to us about Lupus. So I did this in Taiwan interference in Lupus. Um There were many other modules to choose from. I just thought this was like the most interesting. So I did it on that and we also got to do a submodule which I did it in anthropology. Um And then I went on to do my um clinical years and I stayed on in Cambridge too. So um uh rotating across basically hospitals in East Anglia and I graduated um with my degree. Um but during this time, um Cambridge as most of you may know, is a very academic university. So I got a lot of opportunities to get involved in research projects um mainly in my clinical years. Um And um just to say that there are lots of opportunities, especially for, you know, even if you feel like you don't have a lot of research experience, a lot of opportunity to do research um even in a small way or big way. So you can do anything ranging from case reports or summarizing notes or data collection. And um in some, I know in some people's intercalated, yes, they could do some lab based projects for example, to just, you know, get a good idea of like how to collate evidence, how to read the literature and analyze it. And um you know, to university, I also got involved in like debates and maximum debate was basically one of the um one of the activities uh run by the Society of Endocrinology, which is free for, which was free for medical students. I think it's still free for medical students. Um And so they host some events and so I just got involved and basically just be opportunistic and um and for my college, um then I was also uh the medicine and Veterinary Society president at one during one of the years. And also um K A is essentially University Malaysia Society. Um And then served as a committee member there. I also got to have a lot of fun in university. And I think um for those of you, uh I guess I'm speaking to mostly medical students. Now, I would say you should enjoy like your social, you know, um sports and your extracurricular activities because that's like, kind of the time that you can really, really enjoy being a student before working life. And so I got involved in like, things that I enjoy, like badminton, hunting lots of nice garden parties. Me ball, which is what we do at the end of our exam season. And this is just something that I look back on and I realized that you, you do really make the y your, you know, your closest friends in universities. I wouldn't like, I wouldn't just like, you know, focus on like work or academia or like clinical medicine because there is mo really more to life than, than this um neck lite. Um And then I moved to London because uh my life circumstances brought me to London. My sisters were in London, so I moved to London and next flight please. And so I applied at a time, you could apply to um you know, specific programs within um foundation. So I got an opportunity to apply for academic foundation training and I got to um to do this with Imperial College, London. But I understand that, you know, now um me uh as medical students m maybe not, it's more equitable and it did, there's no like um streaming process per se. But in the past, um we did so I, you know, got an opportunity to do an Economic Foundation training program in Northwest T Foundation School. So my rotations were essentially um covering Northwood Park and Imperial Hospital. So, he Smith and Charing Cross. And at the time, I was still, you know, I kind of had a lot of interest, didn't really know what I wanted to do, but as you know, from university days, I have didn't really have much lab experience. So I thought this would be a good opportunity to see whether I like lab research or not. So, uh in terms of how I chose my supervisor, it was kind of very serendipitous. So I did a renal job at Hammersmith and I was essentially approached by one of the consultants there to do some work with him. And this was proft um at Hammersmith Hospital. Um And so I did do some lab work. But along my clinical journey, I encountered really interesting patients. So I saw a patient who um with I GG four which is immunoglobulin G four related disease which I've never ever heard of before in medical school, et cetera. So I just thought, oh, that's cool. Like, you know, I saw this patient essentially with um who developed I GG four related pancreatitis. And then the next week, um it just so happened that I saw another patient with I GG four related disease on the ward presenting with vasculitis. So because they had such disparate disease and mm and, and then looking at the literature, realizing that there's actually not much um not much that is known about I GG four, I just took the opportunity to approach my supervisor and say, hey, look, I wanna study this disease. Can I go about collecting some data on it? And like learning about this disease in the process, I can maybe characterize them, looking at their demographic, seeing what makes them same but different at the same time. And so through this, that led to like some collaborations with um Norfolk Park because I was working kind of between Norfolk Park and Imperial at this point. So I got to meet a lot of consultants who were interested in I GG four, but everyone kind of didn't really talk to each other at this point. Um The rheumatologist and there were like um endocrinology because I GG four related diseases in multisystem disease. So I coordinated all of that and generated a database. But this is literally just because I was interested, I just met some patients in, in um in a clinical practice. So this is kind of what drives my research, I suppose. And um then that led to presentations and um eventually published on this and also, you know, led to collaborations between hospitals and uh kind of a car, a working MDT, which is kind of what I enjoy most about research because to me, research is um only interesting as long as it benefits patients and you can see how that leads to change in practice. Um And so that's, that's kind of what I did during my academic foundation training and I didn't do all of it during my academic foundation block per se. Just because you don't um do academic fun. You don't have that dedicated four months, doesn't mean you can't produce any like outputs. So for example, I had a psych job um and I had a lot of free time at the time. So I just decided, you know, to approach some, some um II approached like a consultant in um in ST Mark's to do a project and she put me in touch with her phd student and I helped him out and, and eventually I got to go to a conference in U EG W which is, which was in Barcelona at the time. And that was um one of my first few um experiences making a poster and presenting it at an international stage. Um So I would just say, like, you know, take opportunities, you know, just because, and I did, I didn't really wanna do psych at the time. So I just approach other people um with whom I just thought had interesting projects and it's just as simple as Googling to be honest or partner searching them. Um And then um I also did some teaching. Um so, you know, as part of, you know, professional development, we are all expected to do some teaching and audits alongside your clinical practice. You do need to be very organized with your time. Um Because we do get assessments kind of every year you'll find out when, um, once you become um ju uh I guess resident doctors nowadays um that you need to, uh you know, do a certain number of um clinical based assessments like you do in medical school, you need to do some teaching et cetera. And so I decided to um do organize some teaching programs. And one of the teaching programs that I organized um for medical students was this bleep scenario where I realized that actually, like, we don't really have as, as medical students, we don't get much experience with like what it's like being on call. Um So I just thought if you can create some bleep scenarios or like a simulation of what an oncall feels like that will be kind of useful. So I did this um virtual on call for me over a year when I was at Imperial and that was quite successful actually. And because I got in uh I found like, you know, a lot of people at the time wanted to apply for academic foundation training and, but then didn't really know what the process was like. I also organized another course um in Cambridge to help students prepare for this program. Um And that those were kind of the other things that I did alongside my foundation training. Um And then as, as I said, we all had to do some kind of audit or quality improvement and I did mine and um ft work in, in Norfolk Park and that, um had that for so somehow managed to get a quality improvement pro project price, which um was a nice surprise. And then the other things that I did as well was I was the president in my fy one year and also, um I was the fy one representative in Hemi Hospital. So I know it sounds like a lot of things, but actually, like these were kind of things that just happened to fall in my lap uh along the way and also like part, some part of it was getting opportunities when they came and um and just making sure that if you do decide to engage in a project that you try and finish it or that's kind of my philosophy, either you do it well or you don't do it at all. Um So that's why I would say um during those years and I kind of um part of this was also a slightly strategic in the sense that I knew that I wanted to, I was on a visa. I needed ii needed to continue my training. It, it was not really, there was not really much option for me to take time out of training after foundation training. So I didn't need to get like a job after and at the time during my foundation training, I was, you know, toying ideas about what I might do in the future. Do I want to do medicine? Do I want to do? I knew I didn't wanna really wanna be in theater all day. Um But radiology seemed cool and interesting. So I organized a taste a week in radiology. But then I realized like I need to see patients. I enjoy seeing patients and you eventually get to know your own personality and maybe some of, you know, what you wanna do already. But for me, like at the time, I liked a lot of things. So I just took the opportunity to see and experience all the specialties in different rotations and see what I liked. I didn't like. So in the end, I chose um core medical training at it. Now it's called internal medicine. Um Next slide please. And so I did this, I decided to move out of scenery because I got one of my rotations in foundation training was renal medicine. And I started to grow interested in renal medicine. And I was also mentored by proft time and his team who were really inspiring and really helpful people. Um So I decided to um try and find a place um which also has a tertiary Renal center. Um Having worked at Hammersmith, I just thought maybe I should find another, another um center with similar experience. So I from a geography perspective, I still want to stay in London. Um So I try, I moved to the next scenery which was North Central London where I rotated through to Royal Free and Barnett Hospital. And I guess my, these are my priorities at the time. Well, I just thought, um, ok, I want to do core medical training, which means I wanna be around it. Um, clinician and specialist, um, in, like, in, and I don't wanna feel like, you know, um, the, the thing that most people dread the most is being the medical registrar on call And I didn't wanna be um someone who was unsure of my job. I wanted to be confident. So I needed to get the kind of relevant skills and experience. So that was my priority. And also as part of this, like we needed to get the M RCP qualification. I need to do this within two years. And I'm just thinking more a bit about my long term career plans about what do I really wanna do in life. W what kind of specialty do I wanna be? What kind of person or doctor do I wanna be? And so, I mean, I was kind of pigeonholing myself to be a nephrologist at the time. So I, I kind of approach people. I did the renal job. Um and I continue my academic interest. So, you know, um you know, we in most of my clinical jobs, I just found things that I found interesting and then I just, you know, participated in those e even in a small role, you don't have to be the leader of it all, all the time. But just ensure that whatever I did, I produced something from it, either whether it be a presentation or a publication or uh it can, a presentation can be as small as it went round. But I realized during my co medical training, I was starting to become tired. Um And um I was um so I didn't do as many projects as I did in foundation training. Cause II guess I felt like I had more time in foundation years than I did in car medical training. But um and I was also um as a se as a more senior a show as they used to call it. Um You um uh you got opportunities to do things like rota coordinating and managing, you know, uh more junior trainees, et cetera. Um But that was kind of a nice experience, you know, go going to Bar and Barnett. Um And um it was very different set up and you got to interact with different medical students from U CLI guess the, the, the main medical school there. And um next slide, please. And then COVID happened um halfway through my co medical training, um it happened when I was in Barnett Hospital. Um Next slide, please. Um Next please. Um And so um obviously it was a very busy time. It was very chaotic, it was very crazy. Um But um it was kind of a, it was kind of uh interesting experience. I would say it was very tiring because we worked a lot, we saw a lot of sick patients, a lot of patients didn't have, even if they were like 40 or 50 you, they were running out of I two beds. So it was kind of an interesting time. But, um, WW, we were in a very privileged position I would say. And it was very, um, yeah, it was very um it was very um even though it was very busy, it didn't feel it, it felt like everyone was in it together. So like you stuck together with your colleagues, you got to see your colleagues. First of all, most of the other people, um you know, non medics never got to see each other because they were stuck in their bubbles. But we got to see, we got kind of like a support system in the hospital. And then the, but then as you know, as with anything, everyone started to burn out because everyone was working really hard. Um And so we needed to come up with an emergency rota because everyone was falling sick. Um And so um I got tasked to kind of create this rota for junior doctors in Bonnet and it was actually very successful. I did a three on three off rota. And so um when you were on, you kind of on with more or less the same people at each time. So it was kind of bearable towards the end. And as a, I also got the opportunity to step up as a medical reg because um as a, as a sho because, um, you know, I was in a hospital that was supportive of that. And of course, like this happened in my second of my two years of common medical training. So I was also applying for specialist registrar training at this point as well. But I guess my point in this is that even though um the situation was kind of bleak, um you know, there are opportunities to be had and there are like good relationships to be formed. So even though um it was kind of a horrible time, like there were opportunities for growth and improvement um in some shape or form and I kind of look back on it and think that there was, there was some good that came out of this, you know, um next slide, please. And then, um I guess because my whole, the whole time really, I've been like, so invested in renal medicine for the last three years from fy two, C one and C two that I kind of was like, oh, like, should I do renal or should I do something else? And this is kind of my wobble towards the end and, and towards the end of doing my medical training, I got to interact and meet like really cool gastroenterologists and really fun like registrars and colleague in Gastro and they seem really like, you know, bands and all that. So it was, I was a bit like, but I didn't really like do much Gastro in my, in my CV. So can I even apply to Gastro? I have not even touched or seen an endoscopy? Um So, um but then I was kind of encouraged in a way because because um there are a lot of similarities between Renal and Gastro in the academic sense in a multisystem multiorgan sense, which is what I really enjoy about Renal. Um But also, um I kind of think like it's kind of interesting to do a procedure. And um I just thought, ok, you know what, why not apply to both specialties? And, you know, if I, if I get gastro, if I really hate it, um It's fine. I can just um learn a skill, learn a specialty, be positive about it. And then, you know, I could do Renal if um if I, um if I can always reapply to renal is fine if I hate it, for example. So I ended up getting both jobs in London, so I had to choose between Renal and gastro. So in the end, I just, I just essentially chose by holding two pieces of paper and I pick gastro and I just thought, you know, heck it, I'm just going to do gastro and see. So, um yeah, so that's how I became a gastroenterologist. Um not the typical way where people plan to be a gastroenterologist for many years and build their CV on this. But my CVI suppose was not, was, was kind of, uh w did have like research experience, teaching experience and whatnot so that my, those transferrable skills were still useful in my gastroenterology application at this point. So I would say that uh just because, you know, you didn't plan, it doesn't mean you're not meant for it. Um That's why I, that's, that's kind of my point of this slide. And next slide, please. And then this is my um gastroenterology training journey so far. So I first rotated to Norfolk Park. This is just during the second wave of COVID um where, you know, not as if you've not been to Norfolk Park, it's a very busy um hospital. Um I did my ST three year there and then I moved to Saint Mary's and Hammersmith for my ST four year. I did six months each hospital. Um Saint Mary's, I did Hepatology and Hammers Smith. I did um Hepat bi. So it's kind of, it's, it's kind of like quite tertiary experience. And then I moved to Hillingdon uh which is a District General Hospital. And then I moved back to Norfolk Park. And through these, all these hospitals, II would say I have learned like very different things. So in my first year, I was learning how to be a registrar and um learning how to do endoscopy. And I found out that I really enjoyed doing endoscopy in a park. Been trying to do a bit of everything, but I was really busy hospital. So I got to get used to being a wretch for the first year. And in Saint Mary's and Hammersmith, it was more uh tertiary experience of learning hepatology and um learning how to do things right, in a tertiary center. And um also doing my exams and in hilling, it's back to another D GH um Art District General Hospital where it's, you know, busy and but I realized that I quite like being in the District General Hospital because I realized like, II think people are very, very friendly in district general hospitals. But the the there are pros and cons of working in both ho both types of places. So I wouldn't rest. I think it opens your mind to different experiences. And then the reason why I came back to Norfolk Park is because back in that during COVID time, I was kind of redeployed to the wards a lot more. So I didn't get to do all the specialist things that Norfolk P or Saint Mark's has. And to be honest, I never actually planned to do a phd in my in throughout this journey and pathway. I just thought I wanna be a good clinician. I wanna be a good endoscopist. I do enjoy academia, but I always have always done that alongside my clinical work. Um And I plan to continue to do so, um until I met my supervisor who was kind of really inspired me in many ways because he really did show me that, um that you can make like s, you know, tangible changes to patients and patient care, um just by doing small things. And so I got really inspired by that. And so now I'm doing a phd with him. Um Kevin Monahan, he's my supervisor. Um And next side, please. Um So yeah, um this is just to reiterate really that um my priorities at the time were to get, you know, good at gastroenterology, good at general Medicine. Um prioritize my endoscopy skills, get my exams done. And as mentioned before, every year, you will have to go through this um kind of assess not really an assessment like a checkpoint just to make sure you're on the right chart and they call it a RCP uh while maintaining my academic interest and to, to, you know, I really enjoyed collaborating with other people from other centers. So I joined a uh a committee that um it is called Glint, which is um which is a committee that wants to collaborate within London um and who is interested in academia to um learn from each other and to develop projects, for example. Um Next please. But then there were also at the same time um during, throughout this journey, there were lots of uncertainties. So um there was COVID-19, there was also um which means, as I said, I was redeployed, I didn't get some opportunities. But um at the same time, you know, got to do more general medicine, which was not, which is, it's difficult if you are trying to be a specialist and procedural, which is what gastroenterology is. And um they were changing my training program and they changed and it, it will continue to change. So every few years there will be some major change. So for example, call medical training has changed to internal medicine training, which means they increased that to two years to meet service needs. And they've also shortened gastroenterology training. But I was the final year that is doing five years of training rather than four. And um the, they've also tried trying to incorporate more uh general medicine and of course, as many of you um will have known or seen that there were many junior doctor strikes, which means again, taking your time away from your specialty. And up to more recently, I've always been a very undifferentiated gastroenterologist, which it sounds really, um weird to say, but a lot of people choose like something that they really enjoy within, even within your specialty. Um It's less and less a case that you, it's totally fine to be a general gastroenterologist, um who likes everything. But increasingly the way that new training programs are being made and formed, you're gonna have to pick whether you are Luminal gastroenterologist where you do essentially the gut and um, like, you know, anything from the mouth to the anus or um you choose something like hepatology where you, and even even within the Luminal specialties, like you can choose whether you wanna do say inflammatory bowel disease, you wanna be an endoscopist, you wanna be a nutritional nutrition specialist, um, et cetera. So at this point, I was still very undifferentiated and, um and then I had to think about our program experience, whether I wanted, wanted to do research, whether I wanted to do other things like leadership or management or whether I wanted to do it at all. Um So there were lots and lots of uncertainties and this will happen throughout your career. So this is something to bear in mind, like things do change. But um the most important thing is to be flexible and to just try and take the positive just because one door closes another door will open. So you just have to be, you know, fluid and flexible, you know, collaborate with people, talk to people, learn from other people's experiences, get mentors um along the way, um make good friends that you can bounce ideas from. But also, but also like I think I would say it's very important to have a life outside of medicine because that is one of the things that has kept me going, you know, in the face of difficulties in the face of uncertainties that you have other people to talk to and to keep you in check, I guess. Um Next slide, please. So, yeah, II guess as I said, my top tips are to find good people and you can find good people. You just doesn't have to be a formal mentoring relationship, although there are formal mentoring programs out there. Um I would just say, you know, anyone who is willing to give you any kind of advice, um send check, um doesn't have to be a consultant, doesn't have to be anyone even more senior than you. It can be your friends or your, you know, your peers. It can be, you know, s say you're in fifth year, you're sixth year medical student friend or for example, um I think it's just useful to get opinions and advice from uh many people, but ultimately, you make the decision about what you think is best in your life. You don't have to take everyone's advice. And then as, as I said, like, seek opportunities and learn from and you know, just because you are in a placement that you think you may not like, doesn't mean you will not learn anything from it. You know, I was just say, seek opportunities to, you know, either engage in projects or to learn procedures. Uh I didn't wanna be a respiratory physician, but I was really, while I did my respiratory job, I made sure that I was good at I could be proficient at doing chest trains for example. And um you know, just because someone says you can't do it. Um once, doesn't mean you can't learn from it. You can, you know, if you're persistent enough, you will get the opportunity at some point. It just maybe some things take more time than others. And I would just say encourage each other because um you know, no man is an island. So I would just say like, I know that sometimes things may feel like a competition that you're competing with each other, but actually collaborating with each other and, and you know, bringing each other up will have more benefits than trying to compete all the time. So I would say, so I would just say, you know, just don't compare with your, your peers because, you know, there's no way you can be one of each other or whatnot. It doesn't work that way. You both can be great and maybe you're great at different things. So for example, so um yeah, just say um keep going and encourage each other and next slide, I think that might be my second last slide or last slide. Um And yeah, go with the flow, be flexible, things will change all the time and uh you know, a whole pandemic hit us, but we're still here. Um you know, keep going when times are tough and because times will be tough, whether it's for personal reasons or for work reasons and enjoy the process. Like, um, it's actually fun. Like, you know, the journey is more important than the outcome. And even though you think you didn't get the outcome that you wanted, maybe that's a, that's a reason for that. And maybe there I is a positive light at the end of it. And then you look back and you think that, like, for example, I never thought that I would do gastroenterology or I never thought I would do a phd. Um I never thought I would end up in Cambridge or I never thought I will get a job in London, et cetera. But like, you know, things happen and maybe it's not part of your plan, but it's meant to be if, you know, you know, and you also kind of do have to try to make your own luck in some ways. But um enjoy the process. Yeah, and find something outside of medicine that you enjoy. Uh Next slide. I think that's my last slide. I mean, I think, um yeah, just to say that just the final thing to say is that there's no one way to do things. And if this, this, this talk is not meant for you to, you know, follow everything that I did and whatnot. But I guess just to inspire people to think outside the box and to just to show you that the, that, you know, there are many, there are, you know, many ways to do things and things can happen w whether you plan things or not. Um I'm very happy to take any questions and any um and for those of you who are too shy to ask questions, you can email me. Um I'm based at Saint Mark if I see any of you. Um Please do say hi. Um I always have projects going on and running. So yes. Um Happy to take any questions. I'll give it a few minutes otherwise. Um Yeah, thank you for listening. Did I cons one of the questions is, did I ever consider working anywhere other than UK? I'm like, yes. So after my foundation year training, I did consider trying to work in Singapore. Um and, but then um I think I was just weighing up the options and I was just, I was like weighing up. Um I did go and speak to some people in Singapore as well. Some did uh um Singapore General Hospital and um NH which was National University Hospital um and decided to stay here for my foundation training. But I would say that if you um if you wanna go somewhere else, I would suggest that you go early in your training or once you finish training because if you go in the middle, a lot of training programs at the moment across the internationally, um they don't kind of recognize each other at this point. So if you try and leave, say after I MT or internal medicine, you and say you want to work in Australia or Singapore or even the US, you probably need to go a few steps back before you go a few steps forward. In which case at this point, it's best that you finish your training and then go because the time that you spend redoing your training is to me not worth it. So for example, in Australia, you have to do if you finish, I mt you have to do basic physicians training again. Um And before that, you have to be a fellow to even enter their program. So you waste a lot of years compared to if you go quite early on, I don't think it makes too much of a difference if you do foundation training and you wanna go back and it depends on where you wanna go back to. So in Malaysia, it's not very difficult in Singapore. Uh They try to, a lot, a lot of people have entered in the uh post foundation year, which is fine. You get to start as a, as a after foundation year one. I mean, you start as an mo to medical officer, which is equivalent of an sho but once you go past the like I MT stage or if you say STX in whatever specialty, radiology, et cetera, you have to go a few steps back, which personally, I find it's not worth it by this point. Um But each sys, each system does have its own pros and cons. So you just have to weigh those if that answers your question, another question, what would you say was the highlight of my career so far? Oh, there's been many highlights of, um, but, um, I think it's just the people that you meet. Um, I met, I've met really amazing people throughout my journey, um especially in my core medical training years where, um you know, that was a really, uh even though it was COVID time, there was really a sense of camaraderie and um that was, that was really great. But a lot of the stuff that II think is my highlight is kind of outside of medicine if that makes sense. So, you know, I just think you are in kind of the prime of your life. And so I would like enjoy like traveling and enjoy like the other things in your life that you like to do. Um And I have no regrets with everything that I've chosen so far. Um You just need to, I think I would say just keep going. Um And don't like look back and say, oh my God, like, you know, this has been terrible because it's always like a positive thing. You just have to be positive whatever the circumstance. And the nice thing about medicine is that there is job security and they do do need good people. So, yeah, do I have any advice for completing Q I audits to a full cycle. Um I, yeah, I guess so for audits, I would say, um if you wanna make, you don't have to, firstly, you don't have to do a project that is huge to make um to make it uh a change. And I would say keeping it simple is actually better, especially if you have limited time in a place because it's very rotational in the first few years of your training. So, um to do uh in to, to do an impactful change when you're rotating is very difficult. But I would say keep them, keep things simple. And ideally, you wanna do something that's sustainable, that, that, that the it change is sustainable. So I say, keep it simple and just make sure that you have a plan to re audit after you've done your intervention. So typically that would take around six months to do like anything meaningfully, but it's not impossible. I've um you just need to make sure that you have, you find the time to re audit and make sure that you can enact sustainable change. But I would say if you are doing something in your foundation training, um you know, doing it, doing a simple one. Well, it is better than doing something overly complicated um and never finishes. Um If you want to do something that is publishable, then um you probably need to do something in the longer term, but you need to kind of be a bit disciplined to come back to the project that you are doing because, um, a lot of the smaller audits may not be well published unless you have like a supervisor or a, you know, registrar that's motivated to do so in a, on a bigger scale or if you collaborate with other people from different hospitals and do the same audit together and then publish it as a multicenter. Yeah, that's my advice for that. Yeah. Yeah, I'm very happy to take any questions. Just email me if you have any, anything that you wanna ask about foundation and how to balance everything or do projects. Yeah, I've had a lot of projects in my career already so I can tell you the, the heart ache and the po the positives. But II would say if you want to do a project, you make sure you see it to the end. Ok? If there's no more questions, um I probably will sign out but thank you for coming and thank you for listening. Um And thank you for inviting me. Of course. Um Let me know if you need anything. I always very happy to chat again.