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Hello. Uh My name is I'm just the alternative careers lead for mind. Um What we try to do is try to get interesting speakers to try and inspire you to think differently in terms of your career. Um Today, I'm really excited to introduce and red. Um And I'll let him take it away. We, we'll leave questions till the end. But if there's any questions throughout, post them into the uh in the chat function and we'll get to them at the end. Wonderful. So just before I carry on, h can you, hopefully you can see my screen. I'm sure you can. Um, so lovely to meet everybody. Yeah, the screens on there. Is it? Yeah, working great, great. OK. So without further ado, um thanks very much for, for joining anybody that's out there that's taking the time to listen to what I've got to say, I'm Andrew. Um I am a doctor still, but uh I no longer practice and I'm here to tell you a little bit about how I've ended up where I've ended up. Um As the slide says, there's a little bit about the GMC in here, which is everybody's worst. Nightmare and I've lived it. So, um, I'll talk a little bit about that and I will also talk about, um, how it turned out to be a pretty useful thing that I ended up going through. So, um, first of all, what on earth am I on about? Well, so first thing we'll do is we'll do a little baggage drop where we'll talk about various things that I want to, to, to get out there to set the scene before we do anything else. I'll, then I'll run through a little bit of a background about myself. I'll talk about the GMC. Um, and how every adversity has the seed of a greater benefit. Um, ultimately, it's about how you frame stuff and I'll go into that in quite a lot of depth. Um, I'll talk about property, um, which I do a bit of property as you'll find out. I'll talk about business acquisition. I'll talk about the transferrable qualities from medicine into these different arenas. Um, where I now find myself and then at the end we'll do a little question and answer. So, first things, first baggage drop. Um Most speakers that in events that I've attended or that I go to or that I see and hear, uh, most of the speakers are there to sell something and they might have a book, a mastermind, they might be flogging. I don't know, a mentorship or a Facebook group or something like that. I'm not here to do any of that um on a bit of a rant this year about trying to get the word out to doctors in particular and other healthcare workers because I see a lot of people that are out there that are really frustrated. Um And I want to get the message out um that there is something that you can do about it, but it comes at a price and we'll talk about that. So just here to purely to hopefully inspire you a little bit. Um And not really sign you up to anything at all because I don't have anything to fool you into. Um Next thing is that there is something wrong with you, each and every one of you that is on this call. Um But that's all right because there's something wrong with me too. Now, I don't know your background. Maybe you're in medicine because it's a passion. Um Maybe you don't know what to do. So you ended up in medicine, maybe it was a family expectation um that you were here, maybe it was a so societal expectation and that you should be a doctor, maybe like me, you were escaping a poor upbringing and it was just a way to get out of your situation. Um Whatever it is you've achieved this, you've driven for this thing. You've signed up at the age of 17 for a career that you knew nothing about that. You had an idea of what it was like. And it's a lifelong commitment. Now, that's not normal. So by definition, there's something wrong with you and I was exactly the same. Now, despite all that, you've turned up for a call that's talking about how to get out of it. So you've achieved the dream according to society and now you still wanna leave or you're still looking at alternatives and there, so that's not normal either. So, whichever way you slice this, there is something wrong with you. And that means that you're my kind of audience. Um, I don't know if there's a chat live but if that suits you, if that is, er, if that's something that resonates with you just do, drop me a yes in the chat. And, er, let's see how many of you, er, resonate with that. Um, the other thing I'd like to talk about is the Dunning Kruger effect. Now, I'll explain what the Dunning Kruger effect is later on, but ultimately, it's a bit like the arrogance of use. Um, the Dunning Kruger effect means that it's, um, the less we know about something, the more we think we know. So, I don't know if you've ever had that realization when you've been revising for an exam and, uh, you've done, you thought it would be fine, I'll just do a couple of days or a month or something and it, I'll just sail through it and then once you start learning, you realize shit. There's so much more that I need to learn and then the fear kicks in and that's the Dunning Kruger effect. So the brain kind of protects you, um, against, you know what you don't know. And once you realize it, it opens a world. Um So there's been lots of examples of the Dunning Kruger effect as we go through this. Um, and very important is that you need to get your big boy pants on if you're gonna do anything in, in, in life, especially if you're gonna do something different. Um I'm not very politically correct. So, you know, you might need to get your big girl pants on and if you're not quite sure you might need to get your non binary pants on, but whichever way you want to do it, there's gonna be something in this, um where there's gonna be risk now to do anything involves risk, how much risk you can tolerate is a full session on its own and risk tolerance and risk mitigation is, is a, a subject that um humans are really bad at, at, at acknowledging and navigating. Um But the question I would pose to you is what's the biggest risk doing nothing or taking something into your own hands and trying to do something yourself. So before we get cracking on all action, a a little whistle stop tour of uh of my background. So, as I've already alluded to, I'm originally from a council estate near Manchester place called Oldham. Um I did alright at school, went to comprehensive school, went to a comprehensive sixth floor college and got into my mother's favorite medical school which was Barts Saint Bartholow Mus. Um and my mother was super proud when I got there. I didn't realize I was probably um there to make the numbers up because everybody else was from Eaton and Harrow and had double barreled to their names. And Mr Granville Chapman and his father from the British Armed Forces, Major General Greville Chapman, they were all there. Um And then there's a little old me who went to a comprehensive school. I didn't go to up in the or Eaton or Harrow. Um So I must have been there. It was part of their equality numbers. Um But my parents were super proud. Um I went through medical school, went into surgical training. I was going to be a urologist. Um I was on a run through training program. That's how I ended up in the north east of England because as you'll know, surgical training is um is competitive. Um back in the day, it wasn't done the same way as it's done now with portfolios and all the rest of it, it was done on the Old Tide Brigade and interviews. So to get onto a surgical scheme, I had to leave London and that's how I ended up in the northeast. And then after a little while the government introduced portfolio and online applications. Um And we all had to reapply for our jobs and every one of us that had a training number had to reapply. Not one of us got interviews, people that there was a scandal. Basically, people were paying the writers of the software to write their applications and the ones that did that got the interviews. And then eventually the consultants all walked out and said, well, where's Mr Thread? Where's Mr Bales? Where's Mr? So and so, and we'd all, by that point, we'd all been scattered around the country, some in nontraining posts, some of like myself had gone into general practice training and they, they offered us our jobs back. But by that time, it was eight months later, um if you want to read it, read it, it's called the MA S medical training and application service debacle. Um And that was one of the first kicks in the balls that I had in medicine that I thought I was, you know, gonna be a surgeon. I'm gonna be a urologist. I had my life mapped out in front of me and then something I had absolutely no control over, completely derailed it. Um So you've gotta be, gotta be stupid to put yourself in a position where something else has so much influence over your future and in the world I now inhabit in business. It's a bit like saying, would you start selling widgets on Amazon and build a full business selling widgets on Amazon. Only to know that if Amazon decided that was a good product, they could shadow Bayer off. Amazon produce it themselves and sell it slightly cheaper and completely eradicate, eradicate your business because Amazon have ultimate control and it's very similar with health. So just leave that little seed to plant with you. Um because all is not as it seems in medicine and I might be cynical but, you know, that was just the first kick in the balls that I had. Um the other thing I learned was that as I got through general practice training and started to look at other alternatives, I started doing other things. So I did a occupational medicine qualification and set up an occupational medicine clinic. Um But what I realized there is that once you've got to a certain level of competence, whatever that is in your chosen specialty, you, it doesn't matter how many more qualifications you get, it doesn't improve your income. So nothing wrong with doing additional qualifications. Um But make sure you're doing them for the right reason. And if it's as a way to get out of doing the day job, because it gives you a nice week doing a training course somewhere, then perhaps it's not the qualification, that's the problem. Perhaps it's the job, that's the problem. Um And you're just, you know, treading water looking for uh other ways out really. Um But anyway, so the, the analogy I use here is that the dentist, you know, you qualify as a dentist, you run a private dental practice, getting more and more qualifications, doesn't improve your income in your dental practice. Only the way you market that practice will improve the, the income that you get and enable you to charge more for the services. It doesn't translate in medicine very well. Um And then the problem with getting your CCT, as I have found, I mean, it might struggle with this if you're not consultants or GPS um with your CCT because you're currently striving to get to your CCT. And that's the, that's the goal. But I can tell you that on the other side of the CCT is not a paradise filled with prosperity. You're at the pinnacle and you've got another lifetime ahead of you with no career progression. You know, you might get a little job as head of training, the training program. You might get on the C on the CCG board or you might get a job doing something or other. But ultimately, fundamentally, your career doesn't really progress ever once you've got your CT. Um and for me as a goal driven person and for most doctors who are very goal driven, um lack of progression past the age of kind of mid thirties when you've got another 30 years of your career left, makes it really difficult to have longevity. Um especially in the current climate So how did I end up changing, um, changing career path? So a very brief whistle stop to what happened to me was 2012, I Christmas 2011. Actually, two days before Christmas Eve, I was in a funeral home doing a part one cremation form and they still have part 12 and three. But that's changing at the minute with the introduction of the medical examiner. Um, but most of you know about cremation forms. So I was in doing a part one cremation form for one of my patients. Um, and it was lunchtime, busy surgery. I was on call and the funeral director came over and said, we've got this, this next person. The funeral's tomorrow, the c the creations tomorrow, the doctor that was coming to do the part two hasn't turned up. He was supposed to come a week ago. His phone's been off all week. Um, and the family are very distressed. Will you do it? So, I looked at the part, one of this creme form, er, it was very old person on the end of life. Passed away. Palliative, died peacefully in a care home. So I thought, ok, so I rang the part one doctor. He was in the Christmas party, not to be disturbed. I rang the part two doctor to let him know and his phone was switched off just like the funeral director had said. So I thought, oh, right. Ok. So I signed the form and I thought I just do it, went back to surgery finished. My clinic rang the part to doctor that evening to tell him that I'd done it. And I'd also said to the family, I didn't want the fee for it. Um, and he picked the phone up and he goes, what are you doing? Stealing cremation forms? I was gonna take the day off to come over and do that form. I can't believe this. So I said, hang on. Absolutely not the case. So I explained the situation to him and he said, OK. All right. All right. So it's a misunderstanding. I said, yeah, at the time, I think the fee was 40 quid. He said, yeah, look, I've, I've weighed the 40 quid. If you want it, you can have it, go and ask the the funeral home anyway. So nothing more of it. Apart from thinking it was a very strange reaction. Uh Christmas came and went into the New Year 2012 and then I get a letter from the GMC. Um that I'd been reported by that part two doctor for signing cremation forms without due care and process. Um And so I started in 18 months period of my life, which was absolutely horrendous. Um I lost three stone in weight. I was a shadow of my, for myself. The GMC interviewed my colleagues. They went through every cremation form I'd ever done. They asked for bank statements to see how many 40 quids I was doing in case I was doing 100s of creme forms which, you know, we all know that some people do well out of creme forms. I think in two years I had like 100 and 60 quid in creme forms. Um, so it, you know, it wasn't anything but what did happen was d during that time you, you can't concentrate at work. You're still practicing, you're still expected to practice cos it's good medical practice that you remain professional and all the rest of it. So I was still at work, I was still seeing patients, but instead of being my normal self, I was very defensive. I was, you know, I can't handle a complaint if a complaint comes in and by the time you get 18 months down the line, you really are a shadow of before myself. And whilst I knew that ultimately it was, you know, a mountain out of a mole hill, the MDU with no use whatsoever. So the MDU, you do know doctors, red girl that people get struck off for cremation offenses. So I'm sat, I'm actually sat in this house at the time after that phone call, looking at these walls and at the time we just bought this house. It's quite nice, big bills, big mortgage family to feed. Um I've been a GP and I've, I've never had proper money before because I'm from a councilor debt. So I had a decent standard of living. I had consumer debt. I had a car on finance. I had the full shooting match and I thought if I get struck off it do, it doesn't stop. You just working as a doctor and you can still do other things in health. If you get struck off, you get struck off. You can't. This is it? Uh, you know, what would I do? How would I pay my bills? So I scrambled around trying to find jobs that I could do. Whether it was a, being a, a laborer on a building site. You know, whether it was being going back to doing an apprenticeship, anything at all that I could, you know, just cover my bills because the J the MDU told me that I could get struck off. Um Now in the end to put a very long story short in the end, the GMC um said to me, well, we know you've done something wrong cos you've admitted it. I said, yeah, I had, I have admitted it. I did say that I did that for them and I haven't spoken to the doctors before. I signed it even though I tried. Yes. So we know that you've done something wrong. Yes. Ok. Um Now we've got two options. You can either have a warning on your GMC registration for five years or you can take it to a full medical N TPS tribunal where there will be two outcomes. You'll either get struck off or you'll get cleared completely. And I'll be completely honest, I hold my hands up. By the time I got 18 months through it, I didn't have the energy to fight it anymore. So I accepted the warning. So I had a warning on my JMC register that I'd signed cremation forms. Um, nobody ever looked at it as far as I'm aware, it never really affected my life but it was all a bit much and the lessons that I made the, there, there were two big things. The first one was it really soured my relationship with the profession because it was a colleague that had done it more than anything rather than just having a conversation and even, you know, coming, trying to deal with it locally. Not that there's anything to deal with. Um, rather than doing that, they went straight to the GMC and II post quite often in Facebook groups. When I see the comments in certain Facebook groups, like refer them to the G MCI. I jump in and say no, don't because you don't know the full facts. It's the wrong attitude to have because it's absolutely devastating. But what it did do was it made me absolutely swear never to be reliant on medicine ever again. Um And that's why that even at the worst point of my medical career, some uh a seed was planted of a greater benefit and that greater benefit is what I'm about. To go on to. But there's a couple of learning points in there that about the GMC. The first one is that and mindset as well, you know, own your mistakes. Yes, I shouldn't have signed that c creme form. I really shouldn't, I didn't speak to the doctors before I signed it. You're supposed to speak to the doctors before you sign it. And I didn't do it. So I was by law. I was absolutely point to rise. So I own that mistake. The second learning point is it takes forever to get through a GMC investigation because they give you a certain period of time to reply. Even if you reply the next day, there's still a window that they have to adhere to. It could be three months, then they get a long period of time to reply to you and then you get another long window and that's why the whole thing takes so long and it's the not knowing that kills you. Um, but own your mistakes, take responsibility for your actions. The GMC actually like it if you hold your hands up and say yes, you're right. Yes, sir. No, sir. Um, but be very careful cos there are some easy potholes to avoid, you know, if you're doing insurance forms, do what it says on the form and if you haven't done it, either cross it out or say you've not done it or don't sign the form because admin is one of the biggest reasons people get referred to the GMC. It's very rarely patient matters. It's usually something completely what you and I might think is benign. It's usually not patient, glaring patient problems. It's usually more insidious than that anyway, that's enough about the GMC, but I not slide about that. So my mum, there's me, there's me who my mum saw me, surrounded by angels working with the angels Andrew and there's my patients, what they saw me, that's me and my surgery with Mr Brooks, my skeleton with his Middlesbrough scarf on. Uh And then this is how the JMC saw me. Um when I had registrars and trainees, most of them didn't know who Harold Chipman was. And if you're an international graduate, you might not know who Harold Chipman is, but a bit of homework for you. If you don't know who Shipman is, go and have a look. Um because the reason or one of the big reasons why I ended up in hot water at the GMC is something is because of the reaction to Harold Shipman and the Shipman inquiry. Um A little aside about the Shipman inquiry, there's actually documented, um there's something documented in the NHS England literature after the Shipman inquiry where the NHS England say that the partnership model of general practice needs to be disbanded and they will actively work to disbanding it. So if there's any conspiracy theorists out there that that are in general practice or thinking of going into GP. And you wonder what all this GP partner bashing is about. It's not conspiracy, it's orchestrated and was signaled after the Shipman inquiry. Um, but there we go, that's me dribbling on. Um, so I think the next step that we'll, we'll take here is we'll talk a little bit about property. Um, and it, it's a good place to start thinking about the Dunning Kruger effect. Um, because most people think they know everything about property. Um, most people, you know, common things that people think are, you need lots of money to do property. Uh Most people when they see what I do think that I must have been loaded when I started doing property. Um, a lot of people think that it's something that other people do. Um, most people think that property is buy to lets and HMO S and they think they know that and think they know what buy to lets and HMO S is all about. Um, most people think, you know, buy houses or that you can, you know, you buy a house with a mortgage or cash. Um, but all of those things are wrong. Um Just like what most of us think about. Most things we know very little about most things. Um, so be a bit more humble, realize that you don't know a lot about pretty much everything no matter what you think. And if you're sitting there thinking, actually I think I do know quite a bit about that. You probably don't. And that's the Dunning Kruger effect in, in existence. Great book about this actually called. You are not so smart. I read a lot of books as I, I'll touch on it a bit, but there's a fantastic book about that. Um So just before we, we go back to that, um I needed to get out of medicine. So a lot of what you're gonna see here is um, stuff and risk tolerance that you may not resonate with. It might feel a bit too much of a stretch for you. Um It might not, you might like it. Um which is cool, but the things that I did were driven by a deep seated desire to get out of medicine as quickly as I possibly could. Um The picture of the crabs there is to signify the mentality of other people. So there is AAA mentality um called the crabs in buckets mentality. And there's lots of videos on youtube. If you go on youtube and search for crabs in buckets, you will see that when crabs are captured and put in buckets, some of the more ambitious crabs will try and climb out of the edges and up the side of the bucket. And there are, they're small minded crabs in the bottom that grabs the crabs that are trying to leave and pull them back in. And that is very much what humans are like when they see other people doing something they feel uncomfortable with. So when you start doing something different, lots of people are supportive initially cos they think, you know, it's a cute little hobby. They're supportive of trying, somebody tries something new. But once you start getting beyond a, a level that they personally are comfortable that they could see themselves at once you get past that level, people get very bitter very quickly and I saw it in my own practice and my own colleagues, um by the time I left my own partners were really trying things to, to get me in hot water. Um uh but it, this is what it is, cos you know, doctors are no different. It's human nature. Just look at what we're like with sports people in this country, we build them up as soon as they're successful, we try knocking them down again. It is just human nature. Um And a little word about what I'm going to show you in a minute. You know, the property affairs took years to build, even though I was driven to, for it to happen quickly. It didn't, it took years and initially it felt like very little was happening. Um But slowly the momentum builds. And over that time those years, I was absolutely evangelical about personal development and personal growth. And I would sit and dedicate hours every week to personal development and generating good habits. So I would read 50 books a year religiously. And I still do. I was hell bent on changing bad habits into good ones such as, um, I was speaking to her before we came on. He asked me something about the news. I don't listen to the news. I haven't picked up a newspaper, clicked on a newslink, listened to the radio for seven years and the, a bridge collapsed in America after a ship ran into it. Apparently last year I only found out last week. I don't listen to the news. All I do. If I'm in the car, there's no radio. It's either music or it's a, an audio book because I'm, you have time in, in that space. Why would you use it when to, for something that you can't afford yourself? Um, you develop routines and goal setting and work on your mindset and it all sounds a bit woo, but once you get started and open your mind to stuff, it really makes a difference and all the successful people in entrepreneurship do the same thing so successfully to clues. And these are the clues that you can follow if you want to implement them yourself. Um, couple of books, if you want to read any books. Rich Dad, Poor Dad is the classic book. If you haven't read that, it's definitely worth reading. Um, The Chimp Paradox by Prof Steve Peters. He's from Middlesbrough, one of the best books ever written about psychology and it will help with your patience, if not yourself. Um How To Get Rich by Felix Dennis. Fantastic book. Better listen to it on audible rather than reading it. And then James Clear's Atomic habits. You know, there's a few fabulous books there if you're at all interested in um in being an entrepreneur and learning about how your own brain works. So a little bit about how it started and how it's going. So this was my first ever house. This was uh I mean, it looks estates because we, I was rendering it, I'd never rendered a house before, didn't know how to render as you can see. Um but that was before the rendering was finished. So you put the scratch coat on, which is what that's called, then it goes off, you put another coat on and you rub it down and eventually it ends up nice and smooth. So that's how it started. Um This is the uh this is kind of how it's going, I suppose in terms of property. So the Norton Hotel, which is the big building on the right there. Um I own that and then the building next to it, which is the white cream building that's in between the hotel and the blue one, bought both of those, so I bought both of those houses last year. Um but one of the one's a massive house, eight bedroom, um a ensuite cinema games room and the other one's a 23 bedroom hotel. Um and I paid less out of my pocket for the hotel and number two than I did for the first house that I ever bought and will come on to how stuff like that happens. Um But it's a, it takes years so you can do deals like that. Um So yeah, about 1.21 0.3 million quids worth of property and that, that's this image here with the hotel and the next door. Um And I paid 15 grand for it out of my own money. Anyway, uh I also, or we also have um a portfolio of luxury holiday properties for people with disabilities. Obviously from a health background, you want to try and do something and if you go on airbnb and try and find truly accessible properties um truly accessible with the right door with to do end of the building regs for disabled people, you will find that there is 11 to 13 properties in the whole of the UK most of them are not luxury. Um But our are, this is the bathroom from Liberty, which is in a little coastal town called Redcar. Um This little picture here is what's called the property investment triangle. And this is what I teach people that uh if I ever have the time to mentor anybody, I teach them about this and you basically, you have buy to lets at the bottom. Um And the base of the pyramid is the lowest risk and the lowest cost of entry and the higher you go is the kind of the higher cost of entry and the higher risks. Um So you start off with your bile lets at the bottom and then you do things like this as you get to the top. So this is a house called Rosary. Um We took the full roof off it, um added another story onto it to make it a three story semi-detached house. Um And then we made it super luxury inside. So this is the bathroom inside Roseberry. Um And we rent Rasbury out by the night a bit like the airbnb thing. Um But the costs of doing that and the risks involved are gigantic as you can see, cos we're not undertaking small things here. Um But again, you start somewhere. I started with that little terrace house in Darlington and ended up, you know, with something bigger, the cash flow is a lot better and it just takes time and it's development and you have to learn to tolerate this stuff and there's lots of mistakes you make along the way. It's not as it's not an overnight process. So I don't think that, you know, this is simple stuff cos it's not. And now what I'm gonna share with you now about finance is I don't know if you're on Facebook or social media and if you are and you at all interested in property, you may have seen some people selling property courses. Um What I'm gonna share with you is exactly what scammers and dream sellers use to get thousands of pounds off people and get them onto their courses and mentorships. Um And you'll be able to see why they sign up for the course when I share what I'm going to share. But what they don't tell you is that actually only 1% of the people get anywhere after doing these courses and even those will only end up buying one house. Um because it's not easy, there's a lot of risk involved and there's a good reason why only 5% of the landlords in the UK own more than one house and only 2% of landlords in the UK own more than three. And it's, it's bloody good reason. It's because it's hard work. Um And it's bloody knackering and demoralizing the vast majority of the time. So if you're one of these people that looks at these courses and thinks, well, I hope, you know, I'm inspired by what Andrew said. Um Just be very mindful, please don't sign up for these courses because the only people that make money out of them are the people selling them in general. So let's do a little fundamental about the basic premise of property investing and this is, this is very, very quick. Uh And I realize I've chatted on for quite a while already and I need to speed up a bit. Um But that first house that we saw Hercules Street, I bought that for 45,000 lbs. I spent 12,000 lbs renovating it. So I was all in for 57,000 lbs. I then got somebody to go out and value it to put a mortgage on it. They valued it at 75,000. So I had a house valued at 75 that I paid 57 for. I then put a mortgage on it at 75% of its value. And the mortgage released 56,250 lbs. So I got that money back. So effectively, I only had 750 quid left in that property. Um So I had a full almost a free house. Um and something that, that had a tenant in that was paying 725 lbs a month with a mortgage at 239. Meaning that I was making 486 lbs per month on a house that I'd paid 750 quid for and the return on the money left in the return on capital employed was 777%. So that's the basic fundamental principle of what's called momentum investing. Um where you buy a house, cheap, renovate it to force its value up, put a mortgage on, pull your money out and you recycle that money and you go over and over and over again. What they don't tell you on these courses is that actually getting these deals is really difficult. Um, finding them that you can buy at the right price is really difficult. The risk of your time and effort has a cost build. Cost can overrun, build. Can the cost can go on the time? Can go on if, whilst it's not tenanted, it costs you money. The cost of professional services isn't included in that solicitor's fees, architects, fees, mortgage brokers fees, Vandals, people trashing the house tenants, not paying all that is not included in those things, which is why and those things happen all the time and the more property you have the worse they get these problems, which is why people tend not to do it. Um So you just have to be mindful of this stuff that it's not all as plain sailing as it comes. However, this here is um a figure from the income from that house that I took the roof off on the previous slide for last week. So last week I got a direct booking for Roseberry for 16 grand. Um That's for 2.5 months but 16 grand on that house. Um The costs for that person staying there, it'll cost me about 4.5 grand, but it's still 11.5 grand profit for a couple of months for one house. Um Again, you start a small, you get credibility, you get good at doing your deals. And eventually you become famous to a few in your small niche. You have a product people really need in a place, people really need it and you can do some special stuff, but you've gotta start somewhere. Ok? No, I didn't start with money. I had nothing. When I started, I had no money whatsoever. I had 40 grand on a credit card. Uh a car that was on finance. So my father in law lent me the money to buy that house and I put the refurb on a credit card and did it myself. After that, I learned how to buy a property with no money down or using things called lease options or various other stuff. So I learned how to do property without much capital to start with. And then I slowly scaled it up over the years, I got a track record, the people that know that the deals that I do all cash flow and they all work. And I shared it regularly on social media. People wanted to get involved because they could see that I'm making plenty of money on the money that I leave, leave in properties. So then people would approach me and say, you know, if I lend you some money, will you give me 10% a year on it and then you do what you want with it. Absolutely. And so that's exactly what we do. I personally underwrite all funds and we have people from five grand all the way up to a million quid that put their money with us. I give them 10% a year on it. Um, and it allows me to do massive stuff, build massive equity and slowly but surely you get a huge amount of equity, a huge amount of cash flow and everybody is happy. Um So there you go. That's how, that's how you do it. You don't need your own money, but you do need credibility and track record. Um speeding up a little bit now uh by businesses as well. So the property was kind of the entrepreneurial gateway. So that's how I got started. It wasn't for that first little house in Darlington. I would never have got into buying businesses. Um but I got interested in it. And in the last eight months, we've bought three businesses, the first one, Halo Physiotherapy in Warwick, the second one's the Norton Hotel that you've seen. And then I bought Security Solutions. Yes, limited in Norwich. And those three businesses together uh have a combined turnover of about 1.5 mil that we just, it's a nice addition to the turnover of our, of our other ventures. Um But it all started with this, that little house in Darlington and there's a little picture of me and my business partner, Philip who's in the businesses with me. Um So that's halo that we stood outside the front of in Warwick, obviously, we got to the Hotel Security Solutions. Yes, in Norwich. And there's the control room with the previous owner that we bought the business from. So he's looking at all the CCTV, cameras monitoring there. Um, so what transferrable skills can you get from medicine? First of all, you've been in a very regulated profession, the most regulated profession in the world. Um, so that gives you some credibility on its own. It also gives you some ethical standards that stand you out above everybody else in the property and business world because it is a very murky place. And if you've got anything about you and you're true to your word, you turn up when you say you pay people, when you say and all the rest of it, you can go a long way very quickly. Um If you're in general practice and you run a practice, you have to get used to reading balance sheets and profit and loss. Um So that is a very useful skill as well, work ethic and goal settings. All doctors are very goal driven. You have a goal to get your G CSE S and your A levels, then you've got a goal to get into your medical school, then you've got a goal to get your qualifications, then you've got a goal to get your CCT. So we very, very good at hitting goals and being an entrepreneur is a lot about setting goals and reaching them um and being in medicine, you have to be incredibly resilient. And so I think that's an excellent um quality that every entrepreneur should have. So takeaways open your mind. I've, I think I've tried to drill that home as much as possible. When I started, I had AAA mindset of scarcity. Every penny had to be protected. I was all about, you know, if I earned something, I didn't want to spend it in case it was wasted. There's a lot of people like that were actually, you'll never get wealthy doing that. You have to have an abundant, an abundant mindset and believe that there's lots of money out there, which there is, there's nearly 3 trillion lbs in people's zero interest saving accounts that they don't do anything with. There's more money out there than you could do anything with. So be abundant work on yourself, find opportunities and people with money will come to you and you can use that money to create equity, which you keep service the debt and then pay the debt off when the time comes. Um where you are in your life is a direct result of the decisions that you've made. So you don't like it, do something different. Only you can do that. There is no significant change without significant risk. You've got to get out of your comfort zone, but you've got to put your big boy pants on because if you want a comfortable life, you ain't gonna get anywhere other than where you're currently at and the discomfort never ends. More money, more problems. You've got more to lose apart from the skills that you learn. Um, which is why you probably hear lots of people say if I lost it all, I'd get it back twice as quick and they probably would because it's all about what you learn. And those are the most valuable things. The stress amplifiers doesn't reduce. So I don't think I don't have stress now. I've got 20 times more stress than I ever had. Cos I've got massive bills and massive commitments and massive responsibility. I've got people's jobs that I'm responsible for now. Um And all sorts of other stuff. I don't think it's glamorous, it's not turkey teeth and apartments in Dubai. I'm usually in a smelly house in Darlington rather than in a flash apartment in Dubai. You know, it is not an easy life, it's not the glamorous life. You can have glamorous bits, but the people that tell you it's all glamorous, it's all black. But you get to choose, man. This is it. Ultimately, but choose something you won't regret, you know, will you regret staying doing what you're doing in 40 years when you look back in your life and if you will regret it, then there's your answer. And ultimately, the magic happens miles outside of your comfort zone. So I think that's the end of my little tirade and rant I'll in invite us to come back in and if there's any questions whatsoever, please, uh, let me know and I'll stop sharing. Lost a chat. Oh, there we go. Hello? Isn't anyone still here? Um Yeah, that was amazing. Um, just because we're running out of time and we're gonna speed things up a bit. Um Yeah, any questions just put them in the chat. I don't know if Andrew, if you just wanna have a look through it and see what you think. If there's anything there that you wanna sort of answer or talk about further. Uh, sorry to hear about MA s hadn't heard of it before. I thought it was bad. Do you think current doctors now have it better or worse than you guys did eeg training, completion ratios, formalized training now versus issues in the past? Um, I think it's different. I think you've got it better and worse that you've got it better in terms of, compared to us, the work life balance. We had banned three jobs where we'd be on call from 9 a.m. on a Friday morning till 5 p.m. on the Monday and we had to be on site and working all that time. Um, nowadays you've got much better conditions than that, but equally, you don't get as much experience and I'm sure that you probably don't get the level of training that I used to get either. Um, but what you have that's significantly worse is you've got a culture in our society which doesn't value you as much as it did. When I started. Um When I started, there was genuinely a feeling that you were valued by society, by the government and by everybody now that, that feeling is not there. You're a service now. And when I left medicine, I only retired in May last year. Um But when I left medicine, I felt like I was working for Virgin Media in a call center and people abusing me on the phone every day having no respect whatsoever. I it was like I'd just giving them a new gas bill or something. Um There's very little respect left and that's what you've got a lot worse, which is why I think there's a lot of people struggling with it. What are the books called? There's Loads Rich dad, poor dads are good on the chimp paradox. Uh How To Get Rich by Felix Dennis, er Atomic Habits by James Clear. Uh You are not so smart. I can't remember the author of that one off the top of my head, but that's a cracker. Um loads of books if you, one thing I will say is that if you're not following me on social media and this is of interest to you. Um Why not jot my details down and have a little follow because I post stuff all the time and so my, my details uh uh go backwards. Oh God, sorry. About this, Andrew underscore thread bold on Instagram. That's the D no, it doesn't matter. Um There it is. There you go. So there's my details at the bottom. Um Can you get this on a recording that's up to us? Uh Yes, I think this is called recycling your deposit. Er This is the um no, you can't recycle your deposit, you recycle your initial pot of money. Um The properties that you can renovate, you can't buy on a mortgage. Um, you can only either buy them in cash or with creative financing or bridging loans. Um, so you usually um start with a, an amount of money, you buy a cheap house that's run down, you force the price down because you're buying any cash and it's nobody can live in it. It's un mortgage, you renovate it forcibly appreciate it. Put your mortgage on your mortgage, gives you 75% of it of the new value back and then that pot of money it should be most of what you started with and then you go again, but no matter what you do in today's day and age, it is almost impossible to get what's called an all money in all money out deal where you get back, what you put in at the start, you always leave something in and depending on how good you are and how good the deal is, you might leave it all in and then you're stuck with one So you've got to find different ways of doing it, which is where things like investors come in. Once you've got a track record, don't take investors on unless you know what you're doing and you've got a track record to prove it. Um Anyway, thank you. Great talk. How do you manage stamp duty? Good question. So last year I bought 40 houses um along with the hotel and the businesses and all the rest of it, stamp duty, you have to either factor it in to your cost of cost of purchase or if you can uh you can get stamp duty exemptions on certain things, but the clamping down on that or you buy things creatively. Um So if you buy a company that owns a lot of property, you will pay very little stamp duty because you're buying a company and the properties are the assets within the company. Um So there's lots of ways to mitigate stamp duty. Very few. Can you ways can you not pay stamp duty? Apart from one strategy which I use quite often, uh which is called exchange with delayed completion or lease options. Any comments about rent to rent an air B and B start ups rent to rent? No, uh I'm not a fan of rent to rent because the the people doing rent to rent typically no disrespect to anybody doing rent to rent. But the people doing rent to rent typically don't have much behind them. In terms of experience or resources. So I helped somebody out this last week, actually, who got himself into a rent to rent deal on a flat in Wakefield. And he was paying 2000 lbs a month and the person that sourced him, the rent to rent told him that it would be um profitable at 75% occupancy. And he turns out it wasn't as it would never do at two grand a month as his rent. Um and he was losing over 1000 lbs a month, couldn't afford the upkeep gave himself a bad name because it, that's not ethical. If you can't afford to pay your bills, you shouldn't be doing it. Um And I'm all about credibility. So you've got to maintain your credibility and it's really difficult with rent to rent. Um We have about 100 bedrooms, 100 Airbnb bedrooms across the northeast. Um So I've, I've got very keen eye on what I should be paying in rent per room, whether it's a house or what or, or on the mortgage. Um And very few of the rent to rent deals that I see actually stack. So I would either learn how to buy stuff properly using other strategies or I would save up or I would find a family member or friend who's got a bit of capital cos there's lots of money out there and I would do it properly, get yourself some equity and some experience and you will go a lot further. You might not go very far to start with. But I've told you it takes time when starting out on your own property. Were there skill sets that you would be good to acquire? Well, that's that first house. I did everything myself apart from the rewire and I didn't care if it took time because I wanted to learn every skill that I could. So I learned about plastering, I learned about Brit Lane. I learned about joinery. Um I learned how much stuff costs to buy and how long it takes to do stuff. So I purposefully did it all myself apart from the stuff that you needed, you know, a skilled regiment for. Um So it depends what you mean by that. Whether it's a, whether it's about, you know, learning about stacking deals and return on investment or whether you're talking about practical skills. Uh Fantastic to hear your story. What advice would be routes into property investment in regions where property prices are a lot less affordable, creative options, creative strategies. Um Yeah, ultimately, if you can't afford it, there's, you can still get into deals um if you know how to do it. But again, a lot of the time getting into deals is about relationship building and it's about credibility and it's about your own track record. Um So, yeah, not easy. But if you're kissing of frogs, you'll do it and just for your own kind of interest. The first house I bought, I put 30 offers in before I got an acceptance. Um, and I would do, I was full time partner and 30 hours a week on top in the local out of hours service. And I was still going out doing 30 viewings a month and putting offers in on all 30. So you'll get more nos than you get. Yes, but you only need one. Yes. Sorry, I continue, for example, gas or electrician courses to help with lowering the cost of labor and property. Um, if you've got the time, uh, I mean, how much could you earn as a locum in an hour? And how much or a couple of hours? And how much would you pay for an electrician? Um, you're better off with things like electricians just do a couple of hours or come to Perfus bar and get it done properly because the consequences of doing that badly would be disastrous unless it's a passion and that you've got an interest and you'd like to carry on with it. Um, do you ever consider going back into surgery once you started GP TRAINING? No, I made my bed and I actually, I'll tell you what happened within six weeks of starting in. I thought I'd, I'd lost my soul when I went into general practice. But within six weeks of being in GP training, I realized it was a much better place than working in a hospital. That's the God on history. Thank you for sharing. What do you think is the best first step for someone who's starting to explore alternative careers outside the NHS? And what practical steps can one take, figure out what you want out of your life, first of all, what's your end goal? Um What interests you once, you know your end goal? Is it to have more time on the beach and just have enough money to get by or do you want to build a massive empire like me and take over the world once you know what you want out of life, you can then make a plan. So that's the very first step. Um If you're looking to get outside of medicine, find a mentor. Um I don't do anything like that although I keep getting asked. Um but I have mentoring, I have people that mentor me and I pay about 25 grand a year for mentors that mean to me. So if you're gonna get a good one, be expecting to pay for it. Um Good mentorship is not cheap and that's something else. That's an NHS mindset cos our mentors are free in the commercial world. Good mentors are not free how to navigate the fear of losing all the effort before we did before people say ST for everything to change career path. Well, you've not lost it. Have you, you know, you've still got it. I've still got 30 years in the NHS. I've not lost it. What people said to me was that, um, I'm supposed to be a doctor. It's supposed to be a vocation. And I said, well, I've spent 30 years in medicine so I've done my time. I've, er, and equally when you're 17 years old, you're not supposed to get into a job that you've no idea what it's about and live there for the rest of your life despite how bad it gets. Um, and you won't lose it, man. You know, and who's to say you have to leave? You know, lots of people have portfolio careers. If you find a bit of medicine you love do with a bit of medicine you love. Um I'm not here to convince you to get out of bed. So I'm just giving you an alternative view and bit of my experience. Thank you for taking the time to talk to us. Do you have any advice specifically of those trying to start a business part time whilst working full time as a doctor? Yes, great question, Georgia Weston. Um, start small. Get big. First of all, work out your enough figure and your enough figure is the amount of money you need to cover your basic essentials, whether that's your rent or mortgage, whether it's your electricity bill, it's stuff that isn't discretionary spending. So usually we get an amount of money and we normally live to that amount of money, but the vast majority of it or a lot of it is excess like Netflix or going to the pub or a packet of fags. For those that smoke, you just want your enough to get your smallest number that you could be free with. And once you get to that number, you can then work back and say you, I don't know, say you not to, not because you, you sound like a female but maybe it's crafts, maybe it's selling craft patterns or it could be anything, it could be selling stuff on ebay. Maybe it's vintage, maybe it's property, maybe it's selling news cars, doesn't matter what it is. Once you know, your enough figure, you can then decide how many units or how many bits of service or how many products you need to sell to get to that enough figure. And that gives you your first plan and your first pathway to get to that enough figure once you get that, once you earn that, it gives you an immense amount of freedom. Cos you can have a bad day at work. And you think actually I don't need to, to do this anymore. If I spent the 30 hours a week doing my side hustle that I spend listening to whinging people that, you know, and complaining people all day, I could probably replace all my income and it just gives you that freedom and a springboard. Um So yeah, work out you enough figure, work backwards like if you talk, would it be best to present, show evidence of transferrable skills when looking for other jobs? Depends on what the job is. Figure out what the job is, figure out what the people want, try to be different in interviews, the world needs characters, not clones. So be yourself, find out what problem the people interviewing you weren't solving. Um So it may be uh for example, our physiotherapy business, we get a lot of elderly phys, el elderly patients coming into to our physio business because they, they, they don't necessarily just want to stay on their legs. They all go to the gym and what they actually really want is to be more mobile than their friends. So they are in competition secretly with their cohorts. They elderly people, you know that they all go to the gym with, they all want to be, you know, better and last longer on their legs. So we actively target them with our marketing to say, you know, be the envy of your friends come to halo for and get your mob mobility assessment and that kind of stuff works. You're not looking to fulfill the job description, that's just the surface level. Think beyond it. Think what the problem is that the person needs solving and then you will be able to link your, your skills to that problem and demonstrate it uh which people would you advise to not take the risk and leave medicine you need to know yourself. You need to know whether you've got the tolerance for it or not. Um, what I would say is the, it is not easy but if you are disillusioned in medicine, try figuring out what interests you and something that you could potentially monetize somehow. Um, even if you have to put a lot of free time into it, first of all, and once you can start monetizing something, it gives you options. It doesn't have to be a lot of money. But if you can see it bearing fruits, you will then have the choice. And if you're not like me, what I needed to get out as quickly as I could for my own mental health, if you've got lots of time, it takes the pressure off. So we get overwhelmed in life when we give ourselves too much to do. But if we say we have to make 3000 lbs a month, if we think we've got to do it in six months from a standing start, we'd, we'd think we couldn't do it. But if you could stretch that, that over two years, can you think of something that might be able to make you three grand a month in two years? Time? It's a lot more achievable. So, perspective is where it's all about. How old were you when you left? Medicine? I was 46 when I left in May last year. I think that's it. I don't know if I'm talking to myself, but thank you very much. Thanks. Thanks so much for that. That was amazing. Uh Um Just a quick thing. Um You should probably get an email with a feedback form. Uh Just, you know, what you think, what you want to hear about in the future if you want. And there, I felt like you could have done about 10 webinars with information on there. Uh Yeah, I think so. I think um each one of those, yeah, there, there's a lot of content that I tried to squeeze in but it wasn't. Er yeah, it, if anybody is watching, please just follow me on Instagram uh and just send me a message if you've got any questions, I'm always happy to help doctors. Um and I post a lot of stuff all the time. I'm very active. So if you've got insomnia, I can cure you. I promise. Great. II think we'll finish up there. I think we move around a little bit. But yeah, once again, uh thanks a lot for joining us and thanks a lot Andrew for that. That was, that was brilliant. Lovely. Thanks for your time. And if you want me back again, just let me know. Definitely would. All right. All right, take care. Have a good evening. See you later.