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So Okay, you're going to introduce us. Yeah, that's it. Okay, alright. We're alive, I think. Evening, everybody. Welcome Teo Women of East anger to, you know, surgeons event on today we're gonna be talking about being a female with pedic surgeon, on the opportunities that as a subspecialty we've had in our training and how we've got to where we are now, I'm a locum orthopedic consultant at Stanmore, specializing in hip reconstruction and sarcoma on. We have a Mr Deacon here is one of our consultants at my stuff For you is an adult. It's an ankle surgeon and special interest in pediatrics. And we also have Ms Helen Chase, uh, who is one of our pediatric orthopedic consultants at the Norfolk. Ignore it. She's also on call and waited to do a case so we may lose her at times. Uh, three of us are going to interview different groups off female orthopedic surgeons, predominantly from the east of England. But we have a non a remember from London who is currently residing in Hong Kong, who is going to talk about a very important topic with us? A current. Um So we're going to kick off with Rachel Clegg. Hee that? Yeah, I know you're there. Speaking Teo. Yeah, well done, Jamie. Close the door as well. I think it was when you Rachel is one of our ST six, especially registrars in orthopedics in the east of England. She's currently working on the West effect. Andre Chore is one of our champions. The culture and diversity, which is a scheme that the Original Pedic Association and the British Orthopedic Training Association have created across the country, actually says is a national project on so reaches gonna talk to us from that point of view. Um so reach What is cultural diversity? What does it mean to you as a trainee? So I think one of the really exciting ways to look at it is about bringing that richness off off off. What mix? Individual people be different altogether and like to be really boring if we were all the same. Um, Andi, I think it's really important to sort of embraced all of our differences and bring it together. And I don't stick. Just tell us a little bit about the role that you've taken on. I know it's it's early days, but what are the kind of things that you're doing in the region on D part of the national commitment that you've taken. Yes. So, um, like you said, it's it's early days. I think the plan is for this to be over to your, um term. And it's actually being get or organized by Karen as well. It locally we were able to present at the Cambridge Trauma Orthopedic Club meeting on I've also presented at West Suffolk at our governance meeting where I'm currently working. We're doing some d Are facilitators training in the next couple of weeks on? Then I'm gonna be organizing a, um I d I session for it are at yes in September, Um, then going forwards. We're looking at doing some more d I training with the rest of the training's up in the next year, and I'm obviously expanding weeks as well, which is another part of it. And the nationally also involved in, um, the sympathies is this partnership with Cynthia's and looking at a design and diversity or diversity and design brother and and, um, one of the things we think about what that means rate was, um, some of some people signed in may not realize what you mean when you're talking about that. That project with seventies. Yes, there's been a lot of awareness raised over that recently, particularly looking at how people with um, smaller structure or shorter arms or not a strong or smaller hands might struggle with some of the particles that we use. Or likewise, some people with bigger hands might struggle with some of the smaller instruments that we use and really looking at making sure that that's inclusive. It's been really interesting talking to the Cynthia's team on their design process. The people that they tend to use as there and experts are people have maybe being established for a long period of time on do often are in a very diverse group of people. I'm so it's really excited, sort of look at that and explore. Maybe if there's, um, if there's sort of technical reasons why people don't perceive certain subspecialties, so the first thing we're looking at is about a total hip instrumentation. Perfect on reaches a budding hip surgeon as she's been converted, which is amazing. There aren't very many female hip surgeons around in our region on and not very many nationally evil. So it just has a little bit about B, C and D Project, actually, the chip society of Done recently. Uh, yeah. So I've also been a little bit involved in that very much on the outskirts. But, um, they at the conference that we had in March, they did a series of interviews with people in their releasing this in social media over a period of time and really get interviews from people from a different range of but groans to show people really that actually, the perception off the public school educated, white middle class man is not actually what we're all about on. But interestingly, there are quite a few people that perhaps managed to portray that, and that's no actually there. And and I think that's really important for us to see a swell seeing the female surgeons on the ethnic minority surgeons. I think that's really important. This one fantastic on, obviously, as a female hit surgeon, have you felt that you've been supported as a female throughout your training, in not just our region, but in general going through surgery as a trainee? Yeah. You know, I think I really have been, Um, I think this has been a fantastic region to come to. I train I I studied at university elsewhere on, but that was a very different experience. And I've always felt very welcome with in the East of England and very much included as part of the team. Uh, I think, uh, certainly there are times whenever you walk into a conference and you walk into a C of suits and it can be a little bit intimidating. Um, but actually, overall, Yeah. What would you say to somebody who felt that they didn't feel that they would fit into orthopedics? I think a lot of people probably do you say that? And certainly my experience at medical school. I would have definitely said that on. I think that's probably one of the reasons that I feel really passionately about showing that people are actually showing people are human side. And actually, um, that at the end of the day, we are all as well as orthopedic. Surgeons will have lives outside of that, and we all got personal lives with All got different agendas and things that make us be interesting and different on. And I think being open with more junior training isn't showing them that side of us going? Actually, no. I didn't go to a public school. I find it hard to read the text books. I don't know how to do this either. I think, actually, that's that being really open and honest is probably the way to do it. Not pretending that Well, maybe that we can pretend that we can speak Latin whenever they're reading the Grace, it can rejoice be the club. Lovely final question. Rage. What's your favorite operation? So I didn't think about this one. A nail worlds and nail? Yeah. Why is it why is it your favorite thing to do? I think it's just a very satisfying thing to do. And particularly, um, whenever you can get the distal locking right, it's all about getting your getting your ankles right on the image intensifier. Um, on 11 of you get that right. First time, it's very satisfying. Like it, Hank, you so much. Reach. I am gonna hand over to Ms Chase Onda Maddie, who is one of our course surgical trainees in the east of England who has recently got her national training number in orthopedics. Um, Andi, if Maddy's there, can you Is your mic from working? Yes. So I have fries for my mobile. No worries. Body high. Right. Say thank you. Thank you. Okay. And congratulations. Muddy Ondas. So you are a central off pedic doctor. Well, uh uh, yes. Central doctor in orthopedics, which I think was old money. Shh. But we use, um use that terminology. I'm learning S O Matic. Can you tell us what's life like? Is a orthopedic a central doctor on? But I think probably my experience is a little bit different of what most people would have had. Um, a bit unusual is a core training and that I was a gradual entry. Students on do have two Children, and I've done my core training part time. Um, on. Although it's becoming much more common now, I think it's still very unusual for surgeons to train part time particular this stage in the careers. It tends to be the more senior trainees. So I don't think I've had a very typical experience on, but but I very much enjoyed core training on a found on the heart. So I originally went into court training thinking I want to do plastic surgery actually on does converted by their surgeons at the list of really into the feeding and just really enjoyed it on by with a second we'll race. Is that about the nails? Very, very social science to get that. And so, yeah, it's it's quite varied. You feel very unsure of the beginning on, but on the whole, actually on particularly the orthopedic surgeons were really very supportive on one side, heading in that direction as well. There's been a huge amount of teaching on directions to be in theater. Instead of being being paid to be a theater, learn for the day. It was the most amazing thing to me when I first start to call training, and the is a little bit of a jump in responsibility up from, um, Foundation. You got a little bit more of those leadership skills coming in because you very recently done this medical jobs as well. You're probably have a bit more fresh knowledge on the medical side of the war patients and that kind of things, he kind of giving it a little bit of teaching. That sort of thing to Gene is um from that side of things as well. And it's always a very busy, though There was a lot of kind of crime in to call training on day. So yeah, there's a lot of elements you have to kind of get done by the end of it in order to progress on to the next stage. Yeah, 100%. I think it's awesome they pay us to do thanks. Quite so fun. So many. What you wish you'd known at the beginning of court trainning? What would you say to to you at the start? I think I probably would have worked myself about it. Uh, yes, actually, I think the most challenging bits of cold or anything they have all been personal side of it and figuring out childcare in a pandemic and on all that side of things is it was the most stressful bits. The rest of it. It has been challenging and probably stressful as well, but it's a little kind of doable, and you sort of go through these phases of being like, really intensive than one up to exam. And then you get that done in the new 100. Lax little building, another way of intensity for interviews and that kind of thing. So I think probably the things I would have wanted to know about, probably not even at the beginning called training is probably before that is to get as much out of the way before core training as you can see if you can do part of your in the ass, for example on. But I had delays for some external reasons. But if you can get that done now, the way that's brilliant on due for some of the courses as well did you get funding for course is within your core training. But there's also the opportunity to apply for aspirational funding for some courses as well as it was like 80 or less. If you'll know you want to head into the pedic so and that's a good one to get done, and even in your foundation years, if you can, then you've got fewer things to do and to get into court training on then at the beginning as well. Just book those courses really early. I'm sort out believe later. Just get a place on the course somewhere sensible that you can drive to and get that done because the places are off pretty hard to get onto. In some regions, it depends where you are on, but it can be quite challenging to get those and get everything done on. Be other thing would be. Don't try to do too many projects while you're also doing your part. B. I like you a few side projects going on, but the old it's and research and things I know. I just keep taking over while I'm studying for Part B. And it did not work at all and just kind of get to a place we can drop everything, really focus on the next bit on, then move on and go on to, you know, exposure to whatever you're doing. Yeah, 100% of those small proportion of people actually claim their study budget, so there is a part of money on. It's a shame not to use it for appropriate course. Like I completely agree on back. Things are going to the meetings is lovely when obviously, you know, we talked about hips. Obviously, pediatrics is where it's at on. Do you know is great when we get, we'll get Courtrai knees coming to our to our British society for Children's orthopedics. That's really awesome. They're very much welcome with open arms. So, you know, that's very cool. And you said that the your challenges have generally being outside of and actually, you know, you're certainly take a few of the boxes of the speakers going to be talking today. But just so the first thing, I suppose on what, Within the orthopedic within your core. Training for it? What do you think has been the most challenging thing give it out with, um uh, but so the working less than full time has been fantastic because allowed me to continue in training when it would have otherwise been very difficult. Particular beginning of the core training had two small Children. My mother was quite unwell, A swell, and I was carrying for home sorting that I was. So actually, it probably wouldn't have been practical possible for me to work full time that stage. I'm very glad to have been able to continue on, but I kind of really paid for it. The end with the circumstances of trying to get adequate exposure in fields I want to be in. And so it is very difficult. Logistically toe. Arrange my job. Never mind, um, arrange childcare around the on. All the other things that you have to do on did that. It was the hardest for me. It did finally quite difficult the beginning as well. I I have one. I started on plastics, and I had one consultant who asked me every week on the ground ground why it was it wasn't working full time. And so there are still attitudes out on. It was last in a in a very sort of pointed way rather than in a in like a what's what's what's your deal kind of way so that there are still after cheese out there. I would say that on the whole, in orthopedics have no really faced any sort of very overt and sort of obvious discriminated I I've experienced personally, I'm sure there is a bit of set of on things that drawn, said all things that set out to be a short on. But on the whole, everyone's been very supportive with that very understanding on. But I think once people realize that you're serious about it and that you understand what you're doing and you put in the work on the time and they realized that you, you know, you're sort of you're there to stay on, unfortunately stuck with me on the last question. What someone You most looking forward, Teo For the haven, that is registrar loss of operating figure. That's the main thing. And yeah, so I'm currently doing some local ones. A Xarelto stronger at my previous hospital on day, Every once It's right. It's just a slight bit of magic. Say, you know, you're there to be an orthopedic surgeon and to learn on go, you're taking a bit more seriously on. Go on. Um, there was very good at teaching, but that there's this much more resented for them to get you to a good level where you're not gonna bother them on. Call it so much that, you know, it's just a step up being taken a bit more seriously on Do also having that focuses Well, so this, um, in theaters, much that can be now on. But but the idea that I don't have a year, I'm just literally just trying to learn much warmer. And you all that stuff. It's very exciting. Pregnant. Okay, Thank you very much, buddy. Thank you. Lovely. Thank you. I'm gonna hand over now to SMIs Deacon, who is going to into you? Kimberly Welch, who is one of our new ST threes to east of England about halfway through her first. Well, wouldn't halfway through your first year. Now he, um uh, over to see. I can't believe on welcomes tonight. So first question Kimberly these days, because it's a long time since I was in your shoes. How do you apply to become another pedic specialist? Training? Okay. As a little Phoenix selection is a national process. I'll just sure a quick slides, sugars, but it is there, um, you finish medical school, and then you go to a foundation training. And then, um, as muddy is now exiting the core training that two year period. So that's the time that you apply to comma registrar on, um, the selection process. It's through Oreo. And you kind of do this. Ah, you put all your criteria so that you have met order criterias for the completion of surgical training. So the pasture MRCs you have had a few audits or projects or teaching on then you put all that in with your courses, and then hopefully you get a new interview and then the interview. In the last two years, it's been held virtually on the virtual interview. Well, in my yeah, we had three parts to it. So you have, Ah part. We discussed a portfolio and a bit about yourself, and then you have a clinical scenario, and then you have a case. Prioritization stations, those that's the steps to becoming a lot of future Kurdish draw. So if you do well in those areas, you get a drop, and that's a national selection. It is the national selection program. Yes, you aware whether that's going to become paste so that there's a big debate about it. They have not confirmed if it's going to be face to face or, um, continue with the virtual. They're definitely pros and cons for both have benefited from it. Being virtually are quite like that. I think I wasn't very as anxious in my bedroom. That would be in essence, I don't know. Maybe that came across them, gave me an advantage. Okay, so thank you very much. I hope that's created with the at the second question So you're now over halfway through your ST three years. So the first year of that specialist training isn't what you expected it to be. No, no, no, To be honest, it's so much more in so many ways. And I thought it would be So, um, I don't think has a shor or central doctor really fully appreciated what a registrar does? I think I just saw the highlights. Order snippets. Ah, you know, Oh, they just turn upon called of the answers or somehow they're operating. But there's so much more behind that, that person to be the register that I didn't think I appreciate it, and I found parts of it really beneficial. So the relationship that you have with your consultant colleagues, it's very different. And I found that any other level, I think it's more of, Ah, a team. I think I'm actually committed to that person, and they belong to me. I belong. There were, Well, it's a unit, a part as we go together on. But I think they're so much more invested in your progress and seeing you develop on. But it's very refreshing. It's the first I've experienced in my medical training so far? Um, there's a lot more admin than I thought, you know, to make things happen smoothly. It's not just, ah, women. You have to plan, and you have to go ahead even a simple operation or a case. A list requires you to plan it in detail before have given much thought. It's not really a turn up and operate situation. So on the whole, would you say you're enjoying it 100%? I recommended you operate so much more and you can see your progression. You a small deal was saying, You know, you get so much more time in theatre on with trainers that are invested in new, you can really see I've come on leaps and bounds. The Kim that started is not the king hand today. It's different. Okay, then. So we talked about all the great things. What's being the most challenging thing about being in ST? Okay, So, um, I think the brush holding thing for me is time management as an ST three, I think, particularly when you're so junior in the register or wrong, it's almost if you start a second to school together and you're kind of bottom of the roster. You know the least. You have the least off rasp. Ear's on them. It can be very daunting. You trying to feel that gap as much as possible. So you want to prepare you. You wanted to, you know, not the core off guard or court lacking in any way. And that takes a lot of your personal time if you're going to invest it that way. And I think in all things, balance is required. So if you're if you're going to be successful, you can't do it in one night. You can't do it in one week. It's just having to upset that. Okay, sometimes I weren't happy with the answers, and it's okay on the, uh it's okay for me to take the weekend off and do something else, and it's just about getting the time. White rights. So the work life balance as well as the time at work it's Yeah, I think so many things I've become so much more efficient. This is since I've become a register because there's so much downtime at work and I'll be talking to someone and planning the list or planning the clinic or something. you can really make yourself more effective. And I think I have so much more to then. Ah, is not just the work. Life balance, outside of work is utilizing the time at work to the best of your abilities. Fabulous. Okay, so you obviously enjoying yourself. I'm really pleased to see that. What is that? If you enjoy most about orthopedics that you don't think you would get from any other specialty 100% of the operating. I'm so easily amused. I think it's probably the beauty of being a bit junior is that you don't really know how things work will come together or, um, any operation at this point just blows my mind sometimes a simple DHS, you know, the basics, you would say. But we tried the trochanter it plate. I'm so easily a musical, the kit and the ways in which we can fix something And, um, that I get to do it, that that's still blow blow my mind that, you know, I have achieved this. I can look and I can see the outcomes very outcome driven. So I feel very nothing else would give you that immediate satisfaction at orthopedics can and You know, we see so many different patients for more walks of life. And they're also amazed when you get to explain to them how things are going to work, how they're going to get this new hip and walk on it. The same dates. It seems almost a bit like magic on where the only ones the only specialty that condemnatory say, Listen, we did this, and this is the outcome. I'm not checking in an MD tea. I'm not going back. You can use it. You can do it right now. And I think that's the Joyable. Pedic sits that instant gratification for us and also for the patients. Thank you very much. That's really how about we probably all agree with that being one of the one of the best things barrels. You didn't have so many other things, but that knowing what difference you make quite quickly compared to some of the specialty is where sometimes people have to wait a bit longer to see that change. Okay, Fantastic. So, um lovely. Thank you so much. Kim. Yours. Are you glad you're enjoying believe? Thank you. HOPEFULLY Alex, um ear? Yes. Can you really? I can really amazing, Alex. Correct me If I'm wrong, you are also one of our ST threes. I feel that you have known you for longer ST for almost. Well, that's why thank you so much for coming today. Um, Alex is one of our academic training, so we're gonna ask some very specific questions to Alex. Um, my first question, though, is going to be Why did you choose a little pedic, So Yes. Well, honestly, I always feel like it chose me in a weird way, so Well, firstly, just going back to kind of being at school in thinking of a doctor. I thought all doctors did surgery. And I think it's probably from watching TV that that's what I thought. So I always had it. My mind if I'm gonna do medicine. This is what I want to do. Some kind of practical surgical thing. Um, And then, in my experience at school, I applied to lots of different hospitals and GP practices and things to get some work experience in the only place that had a space was in a North Pedic hospital. So it kind of started from there, just by chance. Honestly, um, and then again, is a medical student I knew wants to be a surgeon, but I actually did a neck tive a little bit like a mad, he said earlier in plastics. And so I thought, This is great, This is exciting. This is what I'm going to do. But also, Pedic just kept coming. And so my first F one jobs, orthopedics, had a year buildup edicts in court training on Actually, the people, I think the people I met on the way it made a big difference. There were. There were a lot of female role models, particularly when I was left. One half of the training is a female, and I had a little different stages so I could see that they were successfully progressing and really enjoying their jobs. So when it came to applications, it just seemed like a It seemed like a role where I could see progression and also I could see the people really enjoyed it and there was great camaraderie, people loving that work. So that's really great on How does your academic training differ from kind of standard non academic training? Yes, so I'm an academic, clinical fellow, which is people can enter either. ST Water about ST three usually is as a junior trainee on what it is is over three year period. It's meant to be so. Julian Ical an academic training, and you have 25% of your time is dedicated to full time research over that time period on you. If you can make it work with your your department in your supervisors, you can do that flexibly as you like, so you could do one day a week over three years. Or I'm going to do all of my name one block from October. So that's the main thing is that you get this dedicated research time on the the aim, and the idea of it is that it gives you the opportunity and the resources to develop a project and developed funding for a higher degree. So that's the ultimate goal with an academic trainings. Didn't take time out of training. Your your academic time is sort of still time in training, but then take time out to training to do a higher degree on, then should you, you know, should I love doing that and that will go wonderfully then and I want to stay in an academic training and actually, if you do a higher degree any other way. So, for example, we're gonna hear from Mirror. Think of it later. You can then come back and be do a clinical lectureship, which is 50% academic, 50% a clinical on that takes you through to see CT, and you can kind of carry on combining it that way. But obviously that's the formal academic pathway. But this just to say there's so many other ways to do research within training. It doesn't have to be kind of the A CF program. And how do you apply for a CF compared to standard training? This is also on Oriole, but it's not. You do apply to a specific center. So I applied to Cambridge specifically on There were actually separate ones that nourish that. It's no only a Diener E. It's actually a individual kind of academic center. You apply for on it's It's one space questions, which is a little bit different. So you actually write down what it was when I apply. Have you write down answers for order teaching research, presentation publications, things like that on? Do you get short list of like a poor people that get short listed. Andan interviewed on It's a panel panel last interview and when I when it was in person. But I suspect it's all online these days and abrasion. You can apply for standard pathway at the same time you have to yes, so, firstly, fasting today, there's no limit to how many places you can apply for in terms of these different economic center. There's not one thing on. In fact, you could apply for different specialties a bit like national training for other specialties. But then you have to match. Or you have to be, um, deemed clinically appointed, all in the national training selection as well, in order to then proceed with that number. So you get off of the job, you can accept it, but then you later on, after the Academic office given have to become clinically appointed as well. So go through the same process. Is everyone else okay from October? Then what's your project? That's that is the golden question. I'll come back to you in a month. I can find it to be confirmed. That's fine. You have a rough idea what the team is, um, stability is there's there's a few I got like, four different things. I'm thinking about strongly going down roots, but they're very, very some basic science, some imaging orientated. Um, yes. So I'm really I'm having a baseball. You, a lot of reasons, a lot of races in terms of research opportunities, that that's a lot of opportunities. And does it clinical depending where you are but certainly hear there's, you know, basic science of aura trees, but also clinical opportunities as well. That's Yeah, it's It's too much choice in a good way. What do you most proud of in your portfolio? Safer. Um, so I think I think the bit of my training so far that's being a little bit different is probably, I'd say most proud off because it was. I think this probably cased. I mean, ah, usual training is challenging its own way. But I did a years research in the United States, and for me, that was a sort of stepping into the unknown on a big challenge because it was one of those periods of time. It was very self driven. Um, I, um, had to sort of directs the year myself on. I feel like on reflection, it started off really hard. And I feel really pleased. I made a success of it in terms of getting a team together, helping out lots of medical students there to do their projects that they need it. I'm getting what? I need it out of it as well. And I suppose that time is what lead to me to apply for this academic program as well. I mean, what were you researching out there? So that was back in the plastics days. So we probably like a little cranial facial plastic surgery, and they use lots of robotics and a lot of facial trauma. So my a lot that they had so much of that there, but they did on also kind of reconstructions, craniosynostosis and things that that that was really interesting stuff. Wow. Okay, so my final question to you is apart from obviously getting your certificate of completion of training. What's that kind of main thing that you're hoping to achieve during your training as a red? Both feet? Yes. So I think my priority if it is a bit, as you said, really at the moment have still being a junior trainee and still having the excitement on the on or off learning the actual operations. That was my priority. Get competent, get good. Be a safe consultant on be a knowledgeable consultant when I start. So that's, you know, having started my training, that's probably my primary priority. And then the bonus will be a research role as well. So the ideal would be to be a consultant, say, like, 60% clinical, 40% doing some teaching and research. That would be the That would be the cherry on top of the cake. And I'll shoot for the styles and hopefully land on somewhere. Marshals look, love it. Thank you so much, Alex. I really appreciate it. Thank you. Um, Ms Chase, I think is going to have a chat with Mira. Uh, especially if you are that. Hello, everyone. Vera, if you carry on talking, we will mirror you. Actually appear on the mirror is one of our s t eight with the registrars about to be. She's having an out of program experience for research, which she's going to have a chat too. Now, with Ms Chase. Yes, thanks. Everyone thinks too much for inviting me. I'm era, so I'm obviously, we've we've discussed up. He actually stuff quite a bit in the fact that you explained to me what you're doing, and I don't really understand that my eyes glaze over when you talk about pets and such, but it's awesome. So tell tell, Tell us why Why did you just like to go for a PhD? So I've I've always really enjoyed the discussion that leaves her publications and public part in various things throughout. Registrar trainings always really a good experience for me. I've always really enjoyed also the discussions at conferences about the broader picture, because I think what you realize, how much we don't know, you always realize that there is much work to be done on. I've always wanted to contribute to that knowledge and in a very small way, probably. But just having the opportunity to contribute to that on drink, being conscious that good research takes time on D. I think with clinical work, I've always wanted to be really involved in the department on Do That actually leaves very little time on for long term projects on, But I think unless you have a dedicated time slot to do that I three years for a PhD program where you can have been really, really plan what you're doing on be hopefully have enough material to have a a study which is powered well and hopefully make some sort of difference. I think having the opportunity was really important on by. At first I really didn't like the idea of having to take time out of training because I really don't love what rating love being involved with the department. But I think as you become more senior, you realize that if you're going for that will require some commitment to it on. But that's why I decided that I really did want to do it and uh, then proceeded to get funding on. Do you have now? Started my PhD, so I started in November. So how did you actually arrange her? PhD? Because it doesn't just come on a plate, does it? I'm going to do a P a. T. He go is defending his of the actually. How how did you go about arranging that? So at the start, even at ST three, I always thought about how I would do this on and where I would do this, and I talked to many people. I thought throughout throughout my junior destroyers, to almost advice, is about how to do it, where to do it, when to do it. And I think for me, the one thing that I really decided was that I order it at some point. But then, unfortunately, the exam comes very quickly on. But of course you always want to keep operating. So your focus on operating is kind of it's mesmerizing, glowing ball that you're always chasing s. So I think once I became best D six on the exam was very much of the forefront of my mind. I decided that actually, I need to really make a decision about where and how I will do this on. The other thing that I wanted to do was just make sure that I I want to focus my PhD on something that will be relevant to me in the future. I think it's quite difficult to decide what will be relevant to you at ST three level unless you've already decided on that. So for me, it was my interest in hand surgery that developed up training. And then now my PhD is looking at dictate. See. So this is something that hopefully will be relevant to me as a consultant and will be something useful in the future at which I think was a part of the next questions of free. No, you can't go feast on Keitel. Keitel retest the way Well, but that's That's a very good point, isn't it? When do you? When do you? When is the best time to go on your PhD, so you feel it's when you when you want to. Um, uh, You know what you want to do for croup? So how how is it going to help? So obviously there's gonna be the pleasure of your enormous thesis and how awesome it is you you get your doctorate, but what do you think it will help you for the future career? And I think it's very sore to have that experience if you're looking at because certain Korea was an academic interest. I think it's really helpful to have that experience, and I think I think if you're looking at something some basic science research in the lab, so having that experience of the first hand being involved in all the different processes and also appreciating that some of the processes involved throughout time. So what was current maybe five years ago, 10 years ago is not anymore. And new new techniques have been developed of being able to understand those techniques on be applied them with the focus on you don't have surgeries is really important. So I think that's really helpful. Yeah, you have that first hand experience and, uh, and obviously getting a job with a, uh, actually, it's quite good on new CV. Not a bad thing. Um, awesome. And you would use a PhD over an MD I I think for me it was the time scale. So I have a very good friend to did an MD and you're actually in for her. I think we're almost did it in reverse. You did her mg before she started her ST three at the end of my training. But the one thing that we both agreed on his time goes very quickly. No matter what you're doing, I think to really develop your your thesis and have the opportunity to maybe see what else you want to investigate. Actually, that that one year right at the end is really helpful. So for me, it was just the timeframe to allow you to do more. So that was it. Really? So you've previously told me about the fun of joining ah, joining the scientists who spend all their time in the labs that are really, really awesome doing they of the techniques and you've been learning them. But what do you think? The biggest challenges that you found working in the lab and on work in your PhD. And I think one of the things is really dealing with the fact that sometimes things work and sometimes they don't. And understanding that you have to be patient and you have to really understand what you're doing and find out how to maybe change something for the next time to make it successful in the lab on. But also just having that mindset that it will work. It just takes time, and then good things do take time. So that's fine. So maybe just learning how to deal with certain things that what not working straight away on Dalser Just enjoying when they do work straightaway. Yeah, And what do you think you enjoying the most about it. I think having the opportunity to sit and plan and think and really understand this side. So this could excited because I think in the clinical world, time is very much a luxury. Andi don't really have that thinking time. And you have that on by think it really is a luxury to have this sort of time to be able to really understand what you're doing and plan it. Yeah, and really, uh, you know, it actually is excitingly the work you're doing, but you're taking, you know, a considerable period or surgery off operating. What? What he you know? Because we're having we're gonna talk. Some people talk about a 20 you know, on people concerns about leaving for us prefer to, you know, three years. What's your what's your plan? How you going to go to the gate? That'll mean you can come back? Yes. So I think being organized planning. So there will be enough to be periods where things are busy in the level of those deadlines for after submissions, etcetera. And that's fine. But then when you are able to really just planning when you're doing the lists and making sure that you have your clinical skills, you know, at the forefront of your of your mind. Really? I think the other thing is just looking back on things that you've done well previously. And having a lot book, which is really just a record visit, is a confidence boosters. Or just to say, Look, I have done this before and I am able to do it. That's really helpful. And returning to do some surgery is is, you know, just keeping your hand in. Yeah, absolutely. No. I think it's awesome. Congratulations. Very the cycle. What you doing? Thank you. Thanks. Thank you, Mayor. I've actually got a little bonus question for you. If that's the right from the chapel. Yes. Oh, exciting mirror. What has been one of the best things about training in the east of England. So I really think that the commitment that your trainers have to your well being on, But I mean, just surgical progression is one thing, but also making sure that if there's anything that you want to talk about or if there's anything else that they can help with, I think that's really important. And I think that that community feeling is really really, uh what made me think. Actually, I have done my, uh, core training here, Michel, surgical training. And I would really like to stay. Is it registered? Training is well, so I think that that sense of, well being in that community feeling is really important. Or surgical trainees who stay on in east of England. We have a lot of east of England or registrars who stay on and want to be consultants in region as well. So I think we retain a lot of our orthopedics trainees on. But surely that has to speak volumes for the region being one of them. I think you're entirely right mirror, I think the support network that we have in this region, we are on extended family, and we all have someone to turn to if we're having difficulties. And I think that's probably one of the biggest pros of this region. It's big, but it's very personal. Thanks. Mirror. Yeah. Thank you for that. Thank you. I'm gonna move on to mystique. And who is going to interview Nikki? If Nicky's there can hear us. I am community antiesthetic. I can. Nikki is one of our new ST three's on SC was going to have a little chapter. Kids, Nikki is one off our amazing mom's. That's an orthopedic surgeon. So you have a little chat about some of the challenges that she might have faced. Okay, keep on living to see you again. I'm a mom as well, so no, it feels like that my kids are grown up now. How do you manage your work and home life as a mom and then orthopedic surgeon training and with great difficulty is probably the very honest answer. And I'm sure one that you would hear echoed through out working moms across the Glades. It's a constant challenge, Onda. In all honesty, it's I never really feel like I'm giving the best of myself to being a month or being at work. So I'm always in a sort of flux of trying to balance being dedicated, enthusiastic at work but also being dedicated, enthusiastic towards my son and all the things that are going on in his life. I think as medics, we hold ourselves a very high standard, you know, in the way that we approach work in our approach to do becoming? Um um you you don't just let go, but carries all. But what does happen is, um, things like the concept of free time on being able to do things in what three time is changes a Tzemach other. And that concept of having three time has escaped me since 2017 when my son was born. And I'm still searching for nearly five years later, I can say it's still happening to me. 23 years, just different problems. Different things yourself. Okay, so I think we're agreeing that it can be challenging on. So is there anything that you do to help with that yourself? Yeah, or tips later. But for you personally, I would echo what Kim said about being when you you're launched in twisty three, you have to quickly adapt and develop the ability to use your time very well. So I would say I'm I'm really good now at using the little free time that I get to do the things that I need to do to make me feel, um, like I'm getting the balance readdressed. So you know, things like looking into webinars while you're doing hanging the washing out. You know it sounds really silly, but, you know, just multitasking to the max on behalf ing a huge support network when people say it takes a village to raise a child than not kidding. So like Madden I had I was pregnant during my core training on, but I then went best full time lisinopril find my CT two years, and in order to do that, I had, you know, I was calling in favors from everyone. I'm wondering from a big family my brothers, my sisters, my mother and my aunt, my uncle, Any baby sitting favors were called in on. That really makes a huge difference for those on calls that go on a little bit later than you're expecting. Or that patient that comes on, well, that you can't leave or the list that has the most interesting case of the case for you on the end of it, having those people you can call up and say and held makes a difference. And did it did it? This is a slightly different from some of the questions that I've been given to US. Keeper. Can I just ask you whether it influence where you chose to try and work. Definitely, absolutely, entirely so. The I I lived in London. I trained in my training in Bristol. The foundation stuff in London on Married in London did all those things. We have to be entirely planned to be London based. But then when we decided to have a family, we you know, we said that we would be sensible chat about it. My husband, my husband also works. He's got, you know, busy job works, long hours, high pressure. We have to be really honest with ourselves about what was achievable in London on in the place that I had trained and he worked on. But it was it became logistics. What do we need to start a family? And how close do I need to be the hospital? How close did he need to be to work? He was around. Who can help? What support? Well, we need an MRI afford financially. So you know, we have we have to be really growing up about to actually, if I'm honest and so six is where both of our families based on obviously it's a brilliant the new teacher. And so that's where I came on. I haven't regretted it since. And I would emphasize her that it was one of the reasons why I chose to work in the standing there because of family attachments in this area. Even they are trained in Manchester and Newcastle. I was black thing from a family point of view. I'm very lucky to have had my Children know their family. So we're about the Clintons. Okay, So, um, I think we could talk about this ulnar night, but let's move on to how did you eat five returning from maternity leave after Very overwhelming. So it's quite a genius. Surgically training at the time I done my CT one year. So I developed, you know, probably a handful of skills that then I kind of lost really during my maternity leave because you, you know, even know core training. And that's what it is, constantly evolving. The surgical exposure to get a Z call training is not the same as you probably get a registry also the small, you know, and book of skills that I developed quickly depleted by the time I'd come back. So I felt like I was starting again, most and safe. The practical side of things for me was when most of my anxiety was focused. But I had it, you know, I came back to the same hospital that I had left to an incredibly supportive department. We all were sort of invested in. He's a person and who supported me and returning to on calls we've got me in for Kitt days on did everything they could really to facilitate, making it reasonable and easy for me to return to practice. And that played a key part of me continuing my training for sure. And that just shows how important it is for others to recognize that when people come back country challenging to start with, I did it take you long to get back in the groove. Mm, I reckon. Probably, you know, a good couple weeks to feel happy being on call again on maybe a month to start feeling like, you know, all is not lost in the operating theater, but, um, you know, like anything, if you enjoy it, you just throw everything into, don't you? And it's like riding a bike. At the end of the day, it's no, you know, even though it's hard, it's not impossible. Can I just ask for your general question about returning from maternity leave? Because I think this will interest quite a lot of people. Do you think that the second step, that it is consistent in different hospitals about how they welcome people back and be introducing into work after maternity leave? You know, I would love to say that the answer for this, yes, but I think that having you know, having chatted to fellow female surgeons quite recently, it would seem that that is not the case on by think that it's great that the way are you making out move towards informing people and getting more information out there about things like maternity leave and returning to work. And But they're still, I think, a lot of work to done to do on in the mystifying going on maternity leave and coming back into practice for people. But I think it's but for a lot of people, it's just, you know, what is it? The moment 7% of female consultants and to you know, are you know, people just aren't used to it, unfortunately, and you know that just has to change. Can you just remind people in the audience where they could find my information that's being provided, by the way. What buffalo what it says. It might be quite helpful to some it so you can even you literally can just google it. So if you put into Google B o a. Pregnancy or maternity guidelines, very, they're all wealth and welts or documents that you can read through another great place to find help for stuff like this is the Rule Surgeons of England website on. Also on the right side that got really good resource is there that you can get sick your teeth, too. So there's definitely some movement in the right direction for people hoping to make things better and easier for women coming back from 10. To what degree? Absolutely so he said. Anything that you wish you have? No, um, about being a moment and orthopedic surgeon before you became a moment and orthopedic surgeon. Then I was a little bit naive about how easy it would be to have a newborn baby and taken exam. Um, so and I was like, kind of felt like maternity leave is get in to be like going on this great holiday where I'd have loads of time to achieve things when actually, you know, maybe still take up on awful lot of time on day. Don't always sleep. So doing my MRCS both parts with a newborn was really difficult on. I'm not sure it's something that I would do again. So I I think if I had my time again, I maybe think a little bit more carefully about when, like, Sand's all on, you know when to, you know, take them on planning babies because I think you can make life hard for yourself and you could make life easier for yourself. And if you've got the opportunity and the ability to get those exams out way before you start a family, it's worth thinking about it and plan it. Yeah, I have to admit, when I was had much Children, June registrar Yes, I did, actually trying to work it. I know that there's not always that choice on work it 11 before, well before the exact one immediately after except on, it did seem to work out. So yeah, planning if if it's possible to plan because it's not always possible, okay and do you ever have any other top tips to any parents? That's mothers or fathers or others listening in today? No, I think what it is. It's remarkably warding career you're finding you're choosing especially wise me. How many of this this many of the music cans everybody Because, yeah, Mel consultants himself. Lots of they're not. Might not be women insurgent, but they may have families. And I have a little experience on wisdom. Ultimately, it's working to do the rest of your life, and it will be the thing that takes you away from your Children. So you're going to do it. You have to up suit. Thank you very much. I was really interesting. And I'm sure there's lots, lots of people thinking about your answers and he really grateful for you sharing your experience. Thank you. Thank you so much. Nikki, I have one final bonus question for you as well. And how have you found the transition from S H o T. S t three. How it how have you had upped it to that transition? I know I sort of made a bit of transition just before I started as t three. So, like Muddy was saying I had the opportunity to sort of step up a bit as a core training on this also happened during the pandemic. So I was kind of thrown in at registrar level at the beginning of the pandemic when everything was changing. And so it's a little bit of a bumpy Raj, while thing that was most helpful to me Waas I did it in a department that I knew. So I consulted me. I knew them and they were just so supportive. So there anybody out there that thinking about, you know, the the road twisty three and making up John Definitely thinking about asking the question of those consultants of Is there another opportunity for me to step up a bit today? Could I shadow the restaurant called? Could I hold the bleak? Could I answer some of those phone calls? Or could I? Could I come and work for you in a constant of registrar for a little a couple of months before I start? Is that there is a difference between being seen as an asset shown being seen as a registrar on, but it's really helpful if you if you can get a little experience about for you. Start officially to make it feel a bit easier on day one. Perfect. Thanks, Nikki. I think you know, transitions are a difficult thing to manage through our career. So you've just transitioned from S h O to register. I have just transitioned from fellow and fellow to a consultant. And it's these multiple transition points that we have Where, actually, you kind of sometimes feel like I have a little kind of not back if you like, set back even, uh, in your confidence, because each time you're feeling like you're a but not the bottom of the food chain. But you know, there's that. Well, I'm not the most senior in my field right now, whereas you kind of in ST a, you know, you think you kind of reached the pinnacle of registrar training and then you go back down to not being quite a seniors. Everyone else in your grade again. Onda a really interesting thing for some of the people watching today might be to have a little read around. What in pasta syndrome is is particularly prevalent around people that are transitioning, and it's actually seen a lot outside of medicines. Actually, a lot off high executive companies have coaches that come in to transition people taking on senior executive positions to try and coach thumb through these transitions because the rate of imposter syndrome is quite high on. Surprisingly, we are no different, and we go through it a swell. So in the east of England's not Teo, promote us too much tonight. But we haven't amazing mentoring system, which is up and running here to see of Ms Chase on. So that is something that helps our ST Threes transition hopefully as well. So that was to answer one of the questions in the chat. So thank you so much, Nikki. I really appreciate it. We are going to move on to Ms Chase having a chat with one of our lovely They'll always Jason Patel, if you're that Jason is one of our ST A two is fasting. Um, and so we'll be going on fellowship shortly. Jason is currently a less than four times Cheney, so that's what gonna have a little chat about now. Thanks, Jason. Brilliant. Thank you for joining us day some and, um, so told us about a lesson for time. training. What? So how has that helped you during your training? Um right. So, um, being would be muscle trading is it's hard on d. I think getting work like balance is difficult. Well, I find it anyway, So I admit I'm a workaholic on probably do we kind of just doing too much? Um, I fell on that. Go less than full time. Still have helped me achieve a better work like balance. Um, it it made me better mentally or physically, even that time to switch off. Um, when I have my day off now I have my laptop in a bag. It doesn't come out of my phone on the charge of all. I don't use it. Um, home with my kids or doing stuff that makes me happy makes me a better person. Um, but it's helped me. So so chop. Otherwise, I'd be at work doing the extra this or do that extra clinic helping everyone else. Um, and over. I think it's made me a better surgeon. I think it's made me more productive. I think I look back it, but, um, when I was less than four time, I probably just a smelly operations took under the master's. I published papers on that. So it'll always achievable because I think I just became a lot more practice myself. And so, yeah, I think he lowered me to achieve a better work. Life balance. What? It better surgeon Not mean that that was better for my patients. And so that's what we'll have to help me. And how did you go about arranging it? Chaisson. So I think I did. But I I respect expect people are working on that time. I think that making that decision then well, why wouldn't That was the white things need to do. Everyone is different, and it will not have to reasons why they want five. Um, So I had that discussion once I had that discussion. I spoke to my training program director. I don't think I'm very lucky that that was very good. One extra training for the director genuinely cares about you. Not only about your career progression of your way, but if you have discussion, you're a few phone calls on. Then we decided that was the right thing for me to dinner. And at the end. Yeah, I was waiting for me on, then. After that, it just kind of goes from a really discussions with the hospital you're about to go to currently in really helps. And getting that conversation in early times can be made because at the end of the you still have to think about the service that you provide your patients. You are an integral part that mean on. But if you're not there for part of the time than the Rangers may need to be made this this girly love and make sure that patients on affected by weapons did you find it difficult? Did you find that there was There was times where you were made to feel like it was bad that you're off for that day, that that was your your day off? I don't think so. I think I think we're lucky and all that while elect it's It's instead of UTIs that we are family when you look after each other, very lucky to break it. Colleagues that would strongly level and consulted level on everything I've ever made me made to feel like a burden to be in less than five and everything very, very supportive, surprisingly supported. I think It's a misconception that people are gonna support system to be less than full time everyone to get on board on. Very helpful. Um, let them to their people do, based on your work, when you're there, how hard you work, How many hours? Because it I think the perception of to boot, you know, is in so suddenly It was it wasn't anything I considered. And that was purely because it just a you know, for that fear that whole people will be, you know, will be aware of it. And yet I've got to say we've got quite a few spring trainings who are less than full time on. I don't actually know that I've had people working my unit been unaware of that. You know, the reality is it's not the thing that people sort of, you know, that this fear is that people are going to judge you use as a consequence. And actually, I think it's a really brilliant idea, I really do. And on it mirrors to some extent, consultancy. When when you're a consultant, you are most likely to have a day and extra day off a week, you know, a four day week. It's a fairly normal, consultants wrote on, So you know it. Is it so bad to be doing that it's the training on that? Other thing is, I think it's a long training program and then the career after it's it's It's a long career, So I think it's very few patients points like 30 years running out. Do you have any top sorry top tips or what you tell a trainee with If they're thinking about, um, less than full time training, so could you give us a talk? Talk to people talk to you about stuff to colleagues on talk to consultants you mentors on. It's like whether it's working for you. I think that was the intern. It'd weighs what you know, whatever reason, you have a good rest of the time. But they have a plan because at the end of today's don't have to meet competences and you have to progressing your career, having a plan about how you achieved over the longest I'd be unless it um, be organized. I think being very, very important, nothing has been less time at work. Then you need to make those hours at your work more effective trading. Very like Ah, that is being the big, flexible, the rest of my mind. They're gonna be good for me and my friend. And it was well, and I think do it early as well. I think having is you can't plan at the last minute. So planning months in advance lesson people that go to know that maybe missing someone calls or duties so that they could be covered. The patient care isn't effective for you. Yeah, usually that's awesome. Thank you just and thank you for joining us. Look intimidating. Sure, we're doing the paddle. Thank you so much. Thank you. Jason is really appreciated. I have a couple of Well, I have one statement to make on one questions just to add for anyone that's listening in the actual if you go less than four time at any point in your training, you can actually apply to start at a higher consultant pay bracket because your time that is reflected in longer training for less than four time could be reflected in your pay later. So you can also factor that in when you're making these decisions as well. My final question to Jason, however, is. What's your favorite operation? Uh, well, I'm going to show the diverse city the orthopedic springs. You make a decision to go into orthopedics. But actually, there's so many self specialities that my job is very different from, say, a hand surgeon and types of cases that were doing very different. So what's your favorite operation since we're not going to of today? It's basically reconstruction. I knew it was gonna be that your sleeve right thing. Jason. Jason's the knee surgeon. If anyone hasn't gathered because it requires lots of lots of skill on know, everyone can do one very good. Thank you so much, Chaisson. Lovely. Um, I'm gonna have a little chat with Karen. Do if she's out mixture. Hello. Wear. Very honored to have Karen with us tonight. She's currently in Hong Kong on she is Day one POSTOP. So we're going to be very gentle. Uh, Carrie does not remember fighters, which I'm going to have to just look back and double check that I'm getting them right. And we've text each other too much that I can't find them on there with me. Current is the, uh, the boat. A culture and diverse to wrap. She is the founding member on vice chair for Prism on I'm dead. Say we'll end up talking about prison. So I'm gonna let Karen explain. Thank you so much air in it. Really, I really appreciate you signing in today, and I guarantee you it's a little bit about your background. So I, um So I go by mixed kind tree and the problem that I use are she and day and identify as a gender queer woman on Diovan or three or destroyed in London. I'm because it to get the golden ticket to join your event today. So thank you for having me. I am a boat to caution. Ever see representative, which is in its first year on my role, is to promote diversity equity inclusion within orthopedics and to improve your culture, um, for training, but also for, um, picture guns throughout the UK And so through this road that we've been able to work with the variety of surgeons on trying to promote the eye with in with pedic and to ensure that or three is name of worked was being the most I ever sending specialties. And with surgery knowing the stereotypes of the X urgent on the and the gender of the lack of general ever see within a few things. We're trying to improve that and make it a specialty for everyone. On in addition to my role is both a caution. Never. It's representative. I am also one of the founding members off prison, which is now officially part of the RCs, England. It's a pride in surgery form, which is a network in form to support Vedic you surgeons and inspiring surgeons to pursue surgery not just in orthopedics, but you are, or surgical specialties. We had our first event this year, which was called the College, which was extremely successful, very well received on that showed the importance of having this safe space for allergy beat accused organs, too, come to you and you know that the college accept them. Yeah, I think that was a really kind of critical moment. Seeing the pride flag flying from the Royal College of Surgeons, I think you know this is or steps going in the right direction at me. So I think that after that prism is now under the RCs umbrella in the same way that wins is is just fantastic. Very excited. Excited like, Yeah. How do you feel? Um, supported as a trainee in your region. So I work in the Northeast region off London on my dinner is extremely supportive off all the trainees. And we have quite a high number off the most surgeons as well on very diverse people. Surgeons. The support receive has been through my TVD, my fellow trainees, and also through the departments I've worked through as, ah, question. And it's always difficult to go teach placement, and you have to go to the process of coming out in time. I've been averted through, you know, multiple hospitals throughout my training to court to currently investing four on every time I have to go through the challenge of coming out. Teo, the department, your boss, your other colleagues. But most girls, most of my experience that has been positive on. I like to say that the base of work is changing, and the attitudes that we have within orthopedics is changing to be more positive and increases. Mm. What do you think's been the most challenging kind of aspect of that? Um, I would have to say is the the rotational aspect off training is difficult because you do meet a new team almost every six months if you retain their be subspecialty. So even though you may be in a hospital for year, you may work with the new boss, um, with the new team and different subspecialties, and so you kind of have to go through that protest warming up, you know, gauging when you're not. You few cycles to be safe in this environment to come out, and they have to go through the process of coming out. And so I'm still finding my way. And as I progressed through my training on getting more confidence on, believe that if something inappropriate or and discriminatory behavior does occurred, then I feel safe to speak up. And I know that I have colleagues who are my allies who will support me, especially with the be away and boat taking such a strong songs on changing culture and depressing within like, three weeks at the moment. Yeah, I think, actually, from my point of view, working with you for the last six months, you've been incredibly educating for me on, So I've really enjoyed that aspect of working with you. Um, I know, certainly, for the first time, writing mixture e on up notes and things like that is not something that I would ever have thought to ask a trainee before. What they're desired prefixes. What they're desired. Pronouncer and certainly working with you and being exposed to that has been something. Now that I think to ask where as before, I probably would have taken it for granted on made assumptions, which is not the right thing to do. So how would you advise people that are coming through training to go about explaining what they're chosen? Pronouns are They're chosen prefix because I can imagine that that's quite a difficult thing to have to broach that. How did you bring that subject up? Thank you, Kate. I think, actually, one of the first times that somebody actually asked specifically for my title was you and I want to say that you may have seen, like, a small active just typing on up know, But it was a huge act of affirmation for someone who identifies, is gender queer and uses gender neutral pronounce on. But I would encourage everyone to think about three times assumptions about people. Gender on these small acts make big changes on big impact on your colleagues. So thank you for doing that case. I think it was thinking, you know, it was really empowering to come from someone with the trainer who considered that. And so you really feel seen respected and included within the department on in terms of child having in support trainees. And you think that, um, somebody may be using any new troponin and you don't have to approach it. I think one way of doing it would be when you introduce yourself, introduce your pronounce first, and then you can say, for example, high. My name is Ms Kate Spacey and my parents actually her like, nice to meet you. What are your pronounce? What? What is your name? I think that immediately, you know, it takes away the assumption. I mean, it shows that your awareness of gender diversity and it shows your inclusivity of other genders and sexual orientations. And so that median brings the environment to be much more inclusive space, and it makes a person feel safe. So I think that's one way that is pretty simple and easy to go about. That's another way would be Yeah, I hope it works, I think even for, um, some sense of myself for you. I don't cost import. Um, introduce Marco now that I think if I did that, it would put other people make them aware of my parents. Also, if anybody around you because we can never assume that anyone does not used to the new troponin or your other pronounce, I think it will make them know that you were thinking about this another way. It's include your pronounce in your, you know, signature. I think for sister end of people in the audience, including your signature on pronouncing that your signature may seem, you know, to you, though I don't need to clarify. I know it very well myself, but it's a way of showing that you're thinking about your genotype, virs and transgender colleagues, and that you know that assumptions are often make on that pronounced do make a big difference to some people. I think you could take those steps forward by sending an example that people know that you're not going to assume people gender, and also by extension, you probably won't assume things about other personal characteristics despite the race. Um, class. And so they showed is a very simple step that control a lot about how you want to include people around. You don't want to create a safe space at work. Yeah, I think I think that's really valid, isn't? And actually it goes one step further, doesn't we? Don't really consider our patients when we think about this either, which I always find quite fascinating. We were kind of starting to think about it from our colleagues Went to you, But actually it's really important for our patients is Well, is that we have such a very motivated in orthopedics that Yeah, we need to start considering it there as well. To me. What would you say you're in? What would you say? Current to the training is perhaps listening in or to this recording later from the LGBTQ I community that want to go into orthopedics. What do your top tips on advice on do? What would you tell them if they felt that they weren't going to fit him? No, absolutely. I think that's something that I consider it well, coming into a comedic on, I think even during. I'm like, very distraught training and, like sometimes the environment can be quite difficult on you. Do you think about whether not made the right decision? But I Time and again, people have shown me just yourself and my my previous trainers and colleagues that they're supportive and they're inclusive. And so I think if you are to be cute on your considered orthopedics, don't hesitate to do it on applying because we are a diverse people, surgeons on that we're changing to become more drivers on inclusive. And there is definitely a place for you in orthopedic your gender identity and your situatation should not define which specialty you go into on orthopedics. It's fun. Were a great family. Everyone likes to have a good time, and we do amazing operations. And so this is what you want to do, and please don't hesitate to do so. And if you do have any doubts and you're more than welcome to contact myself for anyone compress, um, we have a range of 32 surgeons from trading levels Consultant. We can offer you great advice and the support for you on, as you know, are using that have shown that there really considering including orthopedic surgeons with in their agenda and to support them fully. Amazing. Thank you so much, Karen. I just want to kind of direct people to the article that you wrote and correct me if I'm wrong, it was for ask the s news. Um, it was what was your bill? It in and for Karen's article can just remind people have the title. If they wanted to go and have a little look at it, It was a really interesting article. Thank you. Okay. It was called, um Ms Mr or Mix on. It was talking about the importance of, uh, language around gender on what prompted me to write this article was about me, just me trying to have to decide on a tight another. I've become a real strong, and people start asking for it on someone who hadn't decided we're using gender neutral pronouns. I didn't feel like Ms or Miss quite right with me. And so I exported and options thie option of doctors there. But historically, we've used like em titles. And so I wanted to ensure that people knew that I was operating surgeon because I was a few months. Surgeon is well, Sometimes you don't assume that I am to the surgeon, and I really think I am not. And I wanted to make sure that I had a title that would reflect That s o if Do you have time? I'm have a read. And I I encouraged the college and the community to think about genital oversee on people who you generally troponin because there we are within the community, and you may not know it, but we are. We are here on. So it's about making a few, including amazing. Thank you so much. Carrying. We really appreciate you signing in a way from Hong Kong after you have a lovely thank you. A season. A fantastic We are going to move on to mystique, and it's gonna have a chat with Ms Testing who I think I've put on the stage list. You test your backside. Okay, Highly is high. Meaning contested. Little hairy and see you again, if you see. So, Liz, uh, you've had a fascinating career so far. I'm sure continue to eat. Very fascinating. What we wanted to look at in your career so far. Can you tell us a little bit about your involvement in the king's global health partnerships in the Democratic Republic of the Congo. Yeah, eso, I'll say a little bit. First I think about the global health partnerships and then I'll say a little bit about the Democratic Republic of Cold. Um so Kings Global have partnerships is based it kings and kings as a wider group of thing. Academic health sciences center. So it's King's College, London, the university and then also the NHS Trust that are part of that which is kings and guys in some Thomases. And on day they set up a a group interested in global health about 20 years ago, first invited by diaspora from Somaliland to get involved in supporting health. And it was a really a direct link between surgeons in the UK and in small Island. Uh, there was then, sometime later, a group of Congolese die aspirin, London. He said, Hey, we've seen what you're doing in Somaliland. Could you come to Congo on So from that this partnership was born So there are now four partnerships, one in small island, one anteriorly own one in the DRC and one in samba on, but It's really a partnership, so we don't come in and do something. It's a partnership and we work with a government, um, with public institutions, the universities and hospitals to improve healthcare system's so to strengthen the health system in all of its facets. And it's diversity at all levels. And I lied on the one in the Democratic Republic of Congo eso the Democratic Republic of Congo. You have to be quite specific about it because there is also a Republic of Congo People who know me well, no, that I've will probably know that there are two Congo's. If you don't know where you might not know. Um um, say the Republic of Congo has a comfortable Brazzaville and that was a French colony. Um, the Democratic Republic of Congo was in by Belgium. Um, a lot of the same people live from same ethnic groups, live in both countries, but it's the Democratic Republic of Congo on That's where I've been involved since 2013. Um, and so the King's Congo partnership is a partnership between kings on the Ministry of Health For one of the provinces. We don't we're not partners with the entire country because It's huge partner to one of the provinces on work, uh, primarily with the university and with the hospital to improve the health system on. We have a fake of some trauma care. I I leave it there. That's a fantastic summer. So far, A fascinating journey of being on continue to be. And I'm sure can you just tell us what stage of your training you out when you developed your interest in this field on started getting involved. I mean, I probably probably From the time I was born, I had an inkling I wanted to do something with underserved Population Z. I could blame my parents for that, I think, Um, but I didn't quite know what that would look like for me. So in the very beginning of medical school, I thought I wanted to do. In fact, his disease is because I've never met a surgeon. I've never been operating theater, but infectious disease. It sounded like it should be what you do if you're going to do something abroad. Um but then I went to an operating theatre on I just fell in love with it, and I thought, This is the place I want to be for the rest of my life. Um, and I didn't really know anybody who did infection plus an operating theater. Um, so I felt, well, surgery, it's gonna be surgery. Them, Um, Onda I I then had a really clear sense that I didn't want to be the sort of surgeon that would get on a plane somewhere and fly somewhere for two weeks and do lots of operating and come back. I really wanted to invest somewhere and do something long term and work with colleagues and strengthen something. Um, it took me. I worked a bit and send a golden number two bit Malawi, and it took me a little while to figure out how what that might look until I get into one of my very first supervisors. When I was a medical student at a conference and he said, I'm going on this trip to Congo have been invited. You speak a bit of French. Do you want to come? Um, so bit of serendipity being in the right place, right time saying yes to what sounded slightly bunkers. Um on. That was in 2013 when I waas Ah, a ct one So I had I actually found out that I got a number and orthopedics in Congo on my very, very first trip to Congo on Don't tell the story because I think it's quite funny. We were doing a tour of the hospital and we just passed the mortuary. For some reason, they thought we should see where the more tree was. Um, so we just walked past it and I was talking to my personal traveling with He was this surgeon on. I got a text message on my phone that said, You know, you've been offered a number and so slightly floored, and I said, I've got the job, I've got a job and he didn't get it at all. He slightly spacey. So he thought I had a job at the mortuary. I've been offered a job at the mortuary in this hospital in Congo. I said, No. I've got a number of going to be an orthopedic surgeon. Um, yeah. So that was ct ct one kind of going into getting thinking about number. Uh, yeah. So you've been involved now with this this fantastic work now since put that must be what's coming up today, is. Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah. And he planning to continue to do that? Uh, yeah, definitely. I I that first trip. I wasn't sure it was the place for me. It was really, really hard. Um, it was very isolated. It was remote. There wasn't anybody else. He was going to go with me, and I wasn't sure. Um, I made a couple more trips on my own and then decided yet this is for me. I took a year out of program between ST for ST five on, lived and worked there for a year. Um and so really feel that this is part of my part of my home part of my career, part of what I do. And I know I have quite a big team on a couple of big grants that support the work. So it doesn't not just me doing stuff. Um, the team in country and then a team here in London is well, so it's not the sort of thing you take up lightly. It's quite a lot of responsibility. And, um, it needs to be done. Well, I think, uh, so, yeah, I'm not something you just drop either. It was 10 years worth of investments in relationships in infrastructure and processes. And Pickering out what works, what doesn't work. And now what stage you are you at now, Liz, on how much controlled you have about how much time you can spend on this work? I don't have, like, zero control. It feels like, um which, Uh, yeah, I think if I had known at the beginning of my career that it would be this long of not really having control over your own time, I might have. Well, I don't know if I would have made a different decision, but nobody told me that at the start. Um, yeah, so I'm anyway, I'm post E c t fellow. So I finished I CCT about a year and a half ago on differently, doing a limb Reconstruction fellowship, the oral London. But I've just finished six months in Oxford at the bone infection unit. So finally, after what 15 years of surgical training, I've finally discovered that there are people who do surgery plus infection on. I was in my happy place and absolutely loved it, and I thought, Why did anybody tell me that these people existed? You know it's not in my career. Um, you're not fasting so bit, Sandip Pretty got feeling you've had since birth, followed by a lot of hard work on vestment of time. Is there anything that you think is the most important thing that you've learned from the involvement you've had in this fantastic program were, uh, I've learned a huge amount for my Congolese colleagues. I mean, uh, to do, to do the work that they do in the circumstances that they work in. You can only be humbled by that, Um, and to know that it's not just them, you know, the vast majority of the world does surgery and really, really difficult circumstances. The surgery we do in the NHS I know, I know. It's hard at times, you know, the less starts lay in a case gets counseled on people on the waiting list for a long time. But, you know, compared to most of the world, Thean hs is extraordinary on the working environment that we have is extraordinary. Um, so I've I've learned a huge amount from them in terms of just grit, determination, what human beings air capable of, um and then probably some of the practical stuff, you know, like just making due in theater. You know, when they asked me which dressing, I really don't mind, You know, any any dressing would do, Really? Doesn't matter if the lights go out. It's also fine if the water's not running. It's also fine. So just a little bit of, um, yeah, I guess just flexibility. And you get on with it on. But, you know, in the dependent distills down what's really important. What did the essential bits of this operation, What's essential for this patient, what's really wouldn't really want to get out of this list today. And, yeah, I remember you came to work with us, the hospital in just after you come back from that year away. Yeah, I remember you telling us some stories about some of the things you have to do that in order to do the right thing for your patients. And I vividly remember you telling me that there was one time when there wasn't a screwdriver that you could use to municipally. Nothing yet and on so many other stories about how you manage without operating lights. Just absolutely fascinating in. And do you feel that when you first came back from working in that environment that that was a challenge to come back, working again in a month to get used to the way we'll know what. And that was an extraordinarily hard period of my life. And I am I wouldn't have gotten through that. I think without kind buses, um and, ah, you know, friends and family. Um and I think just the kindness of human beings around you through the course of your training eyes just hugely important, whatever. Whatever it is that at some point will be difficult in your life. You need some human beings around you in the work place. Um, you know, for me, coming back from Congo and trying to readjust to the NHS was one of the hardest things I've had to do on 100% would not have got through that had I not had just some human beings at work. Um, who didn't understand exactly what it was that I was going through but understood that it was tough. Um, and I and I think that's what it doesn't always feel like family to me. Some people like that analogy of you know things getting like family. But what definitely stood out to me was just the kindness of people along your journey. Huge, huge, important. Um, and I don't think you make it in surgery without I think the Steelers come upon multiple times during interviews. You know, people. It just shows how much having kindness, understanding, wearing on be helping each other makes a massive difference to any type of person and how talented they think. They know they think they're indestructible because we all have times when they're finding it hard to have around two who are empathetic to that on care about that just shows how important as Alder Pedic surgeons, we've had a reputation not thinking. Well, actually, we do have We are human. Take on. We help. Needs a meeting to help each other much more than anything. No. Um, one last question. What you're planning next. Um, so I have another trip planned for Congo in a few months on. Then I'm doing the second bit of my fellowship, which will be in stand more doing pediatric and more elective limerick construction plastic. Um, and then I need I need to probably find a job where I can actually to combine lots of different strands of things and have a little bit more saying control of how I spend my days. Um, because I've been doing a lot of years now of basically two full time jobs, and it's quite exhausting. Yeah, well, you're nearly at that point where you can actually get a control on plan your career in a way that suits you rather than having to fit around other people. Very exciting. I know where you're going to live on all those. So thank you so much less. It is being lovely to see you. And here's some of your story on you wrote fantastic paper recently. By the way, did you about Factive? Very, um, I'm not actually infection. You know that Factually infection, different resource and violence. Please read it. If you get a chance. It's really just demonstrate how things that we organized go different. Different environments close. Thanks very much. Thank you so much less. Thank you. Um, the next talks a little bit different. So Ms Chase is going to interview. Mistaken about some of the management positions was that she's had during Yeah, right. Say a mistake, and I worked together at the other stuff. The pleasure ever been so And I am. But they're much a junior college. And I started five years ago. When I started you were you were these director of surgery, I believe at, um at the Suffolk, which is quite a high, high roll. Um, can you talk us through PSU about that? How did you get it on? How did you find that wrong? Okay, yes. So? So in 2016, I became the clinical director of that so divisional director of the whole of the surgical division at West of constantly We're not a massive hospital. So in bigger hospitals that might have a different title on day. That was a where I'd already being a consultant for 13 years by then, so leading up to that, I I always was one of those people had lots of ideas, suggestions, a big mass on, put myself forward through all sorts of things education, teaching. And then I started to think, see things that needed to make be made better and started suggesting things did. A couple of projects ended up being the clinical eat just for the orthopedic department did a few projects that made quite a big difference and then applied for the role of the divisional director, which for the first time is actually competitive into usually used to be dumped on whoever would do it. But it was quite nice to actually properly apply for a role. So that involves looking after a general surgery, orthopedics, vascular surgery, ophthalmology, plastic surgery, ent on before the hospital. And I was working alongside the soc IT director of operations for the division, the head of nursing for surgery, working closely with my equivalent, who was could divisional director of anesthetics on the finance leader for the whole of surgery on reporting to the medical director there on the chief operating officer. Um, and then, uh, yes. So it was. That was a transition stage, which I had a bit of pasta. See, um, on the way, I took the bull by the horns and applied on managed to get the whole I did that role for three years on. As part of that, I would be attending executive level meeting along with four other equivalent people. Doctors within the hospital for the other divisions. Yeah. Um we focusing on patient safety quality. So, for instance, I'd be tearing the sake of surgery helping design and you World House organized, insatiable surgical checklists, which is a bit like negotiating NATO kind of affairs takes a lot longer than you think. Looking at operational things, having to negotiate job plans on pay for certain situations, local rates. That was a journey on challenge, um, lot of people management. So client to support team, trying to make sure people listen to making sure that people being treated fairly business cases, two things like a new operating theater. Oh, uh, projects reprieve of all sorts. So very, very well on. Yes. So that was what that role involved. So it sounds like you got from one. It was one step to the next. So volunteer for something, do a do a good job, get included in the next thing and take those steps to get there, Which is which is really, really very cool. When I and when I was a core training a little while ago, I went to the women in surgery. Think it. They're all college. And Claire marks it arranged it, and they should put a picture, and it was just a bunch of middle aged white men sort of saying like these out. These are the leaders on the pictures of leadership groups are are getting slightly more diverse, but they're still they're still extremely a male dominated. Um, do you think women are good leaders? Do you think, um, do you think they should be leaders? Okay, so first of all, what I was the first day of it be mailed divisional director of surgery. They've ever had a this hospital. So it's difficult. I was going to be end of the the first one to be the first thing you need to job I get. I feel like it's it's quite tired being the first one of each time, but I do think that women make good leaders. It's very hard to generalize that all women make good leaders on, but they're better than men. Oh, I do think we do, on the whole, have certain spent, I would say, one of the most useful strengths a lot of women have, and I'm sure lots of men have to is a degree of emotional intelligence. Um, that I think he is so important to any leadership role. Um, but that doesn't mean men can't be emotionally intelligent, too. On that's it, because most of the work is with people and to be able Teo, interpret on do, empathize on sport understand behaviors is probably the biggest skill that is needed for the job, not how to do a business case. We'll have to tell everybody Watched do so. Um, yeah, it's, um I do think we minute good leaders. I think we are have certain skin. It's not many weaknesses. Some sequel that uses have being over emotional when we're feeling passionate or angry. Um, but and that's a hard balance to achieve in a male environment. Just as many of us will know, Um, but yeah, equally good on in some aspects better. And so what advice would you give to that to the audience, with regards to taking a leadership roles? I suppose what I would say is be sure that that's what you want on there. So many avenues of use as you've seen today, where people have exiled in lots of different areas on trying to workout. Whether being a named leader of some sort is a decision that you can make for yourself. I mean, we're all leaders as leaders about teams, so some leadership skills we have to develop. So I would first of all, say, learn some leadership on Ben's as early as you can, because it will be relevant to whatever you dedicate yourself to, even if it's not a named leadership. Well, I think in retrospect, I don't think I had any formal leadership role training until after I've been a leader on that. There's so many programs now that you can join as a medical student as a junior doctor of any kind, as a training as a fellow, where you wherever you learning those will be applicable, even if you decide not to let take a named fixed leadership role. Because we were constantly leading teams all day, every day of our job is an orthopedic surgeon. So the sooner those little tips, tricks on experiences and of a leadership training can be started the better. And I wish I had started learning some of those things sooner rather than on the job. Yeah, and I know that some of our JSA doing the Future Leader program, which is which is very cool. So I'm he talked about your If you don't mind to your your a a work because you just you just start a day. A very a very huge new role. Oh, yes, yes. So I I'm not know what the charity is, but it's an educational charity that's international. A teaching and training many, many, many thousands of form of surgeons around whole world on there are different separate chapters. So I've recently being elected as a present president elect off the UK on the island factor on there now be becoming the president in approximately 18 months or two years to learn how to do it. So at the moment, I'm president, Electoral Vice President. I've been working with their teaching and trading in trauma surgery for the last 15 years. So very familiar with the with the charity. Um um on. So I'm on the board now for that, which is very exciting and interesting on I work alongside. Fantastic educator at least had a law that some of people will know who works in lots of arenas because it is an educational charity. It's important, you know, about education on, but also alongside finance people It's fantastic doing the leadership role outside the chest, actually, because there's less bureaucracy. Uh, you don't necessarily have to beg, please and borrow to get your voice heard on. It's really satisfying so far. On on, We oversee a research research programs within former on orthopedics. We also even see Vetinary orthopedics on a fax it Max Paxil Facts Max Surgeons on spinal surgeons and then the trauma side as well. So it's really quite varied. A really interesting, fascinating, that meeting lots of different types of surgeons who the orthopedics and dogs and cats, Um, and we help organize all the training. Those is where, um so that's my role in a you can island. So that's my main current leadership old at the moment on. And I have another leadership role within the clinical human factor in challenge. Well, that's that's awesome. So on it really is extremely cool. And congratulations we're or ever been so proud of you. So obviously, however, is is what's your favorite operation, and I'm hoping you'll fly the flag for pediatrics rather than foot ankle. Well, so my my favorite operation I used to do when I was a registrar was the old fashioned club foot surgery where you stopped everything lengthened everything. But we know we don't do that anymore. Do it. So my favorite operation on something to think about this. I think I like a nice, juicy peel on fracture where you can make you can argue for hours about how you gonna fix it with many people? Just remind me yesterday. So that's not a pediatric operation, is that I do like a try plain that this started to anything where I could make it back to label. Supposed to be before and see the difference. So I do like former and I like for my ankle. And I love pediatrical pedic stool. And I'm looking up to work on all three areas, so yeah, he'll on fracture. Love it. I love all the different approaches you can argue about. Benefits of the risks are like thinking on planning on I really like they're doing. Thank you. Amazing. Thank you so much. Ladies, um, we're going to, uh, finish up with on speaker if Ms Young is that here? Yes, she is. Hello. Miss Young is our deputy tech training program director in the east of England. on. So I've got a few questions to ask us. Lord, that's all right. And how are you fasting? I'm I have to say I'm just totally inspired by everybody this evening being just from our cool trainees. Junior ST Trainees, we've got a fabulous group of women who have just demonstrated house. Supportive. Everybody is on our kind. They are how enthusiastic they aren't how much they love orthopedics. What? I'm sitting here with my impulsive nomine on Kind of go. Everybody's doing amazing things. I've done nothing. Well, you have done a row. Fall up as I have. You really need to cover some of that now, How did you get into your educational rose as part of your career? Um, I think it started. Is Registrar on kind of seen your register? All thinking, going through the exam. And there wasn't We didn't have a mark exam, unless you want to call them. Had to pay for it. So much to the despair of my other trainee. Colleagues are set up the first mark examine the region, and they hated me on the day for having to go through a markets, and but afterwards they realized that Actually, they came to me, so thank you. That was actually really useful. It's far better doing it on practicing it. Lots of doing every year than having to pay a lot of money on doing If Really? Um, so that's where I started to kind of get get an idea about education. Um, I also wanted three. My training kind of us. See, indicated that is no easy being the first. And there are a few units. When I went through, my training was the first female training. Um, and you didn't always get the mail train nose, Nothing quite how to respond to female training, Um, on. But I didn't always have the easiest time. And so I wanted to somehow make a difference and be a bit more supportive, is a trainer. And see if I could make a difference to the training environment that it wasn't all kind of natural. Oh, and you could show no weakness that actually, it's okay to come on here and say I have a positive phenomenon. I have weakness is I can be vulnerable. I don't know it'll, um and so I got started to want to get into educational rolls and the supportive roles of being an educational supervisor. Um and then So I did that for about 23 years, and then the role of college cheater came up in the trust. And so take that roll on. So then became responsible for all of the surgical trainees in the hospital. Um, which was interesting trying to persuade all other general surgical colleagues. That may be the way that they were running the writers. Because perhaps not very fair on just trying to you advocate for them to make sure they were getting the training they needed in the resource is they needed. Um, Then the opportunity came up to be deputy training program director, which I've been doing for about 18 months now. And it's fabulous being able to, you know, work with an issue or TPD who is incredible. Really supportive. Really kind. Um, again, a real advocate for the trainees. We're doing some great things kind of trying to get a handle on unwelcome behaviors which are still happening in Has such a lower have gone missing for everybody? Oh, yes. Um, let's just see if her signal comes back in. Give her a chance to. I'm coming in. In the meantime suit, would you like to tell us a little bit about the economics charity that you're working with? What good is finishing up So things that we could talk about? Yes, I, um yes, human factors open. Ah, mixes is about making it easier for people to do their jobs for patient safety and quality. And this thing is a fantastic charity that actually founded by Martin Bombing, who lost his wife in another incident. Going through two operations on, um, I became very interested in my shoulders. Could be productive surgery when I was deployed. Can't safety. And I had never been myself 2011 comment. The exact day eso I thought I needed to learn about the factors and my journey eventually lead to me becoming a clinical factors need to trust, trying to make things easier for people like me. It's been hard for last year's on, then applied to the wall so that I could work alongside one of my heroes on trying to do some more stuff nationally to help make things easier for all of the chest to do the right thing by, and I think the nomics has already come up. Today we're working with companies to look at making sure usability testing he's done is a new law that's comes through two manufacturers of instruments. That any new instruments or equipment that's made has to have very declared usability assessments on a diverse range of people. All the so much stuff about, um, supporting people through incidents, complaints on safety incidents. Color is impressed that kind of thing, but also about the design off buildings on Stacy's operating theaters. It's also about tea about designing 90 to be usable. Tell me to show up when we've got a lower back in. But they could talk about this. Trans have not Laura. We've got more about about even round up. Why? I'm all right. It was back. Almost everything on. And it's about people which are really that Laura Any bag who? Laura, You should have a stage invite. Hopefully if you can hear me. Uh, can you see me now? Yes, but to join in my phone. So sorry if it looks rubbish waken See you. It's perfect. Like you know my my question to you next was going to be What have you found most rewarding about your educational rolls that you've taken on. Um, I think it's being about being up to support trainees. And when when you got a trainee that is having a little bit of a difficult time actually being out to spend time, um, and see them turn around actually being able to give them, you know, kind of the skills and the time, Um, maybe so you know, kind of ideas and help and suggestions to actually kind of get them back to where they want to be and to be the best that they can possibly be. Um, just think somebody turned around from being somebody that's being described. Is failing Teo, then flourishing? Um, it's just wonderful. There's a real privilege to do. Who, What are some of the options that Cheney's have when they're having difficulties or struggling? Got raw, can talk for hours, and it depends on what they're struggling. Um, so in our region we have the professional support, well being units, So that's good. That's always the first point to call. And they are this wealth of information and support. Um, so is everything from coaching, obviously what mentoring within our program a swell that Helen chases running. But if you're having, um, mental health difficulties or problems passing the exam if they're, you know, sometimes communication issues um, you know, problems with colleagues just up the wealth of things that, um, you can get support and help with or if you're having a bit of wobble about your career, there's careers. Advice? Um, they'll give guidance and support about maternity leave or, if you want a bit of time out of training for various reasons, um, greater advising about less than full time training. Um, if you're coming back from a period of time out of work or maternity leave, then else help you set up the kit days and returning to work days and things as well has it for perhaps S H O Z or early registrars that are thinking that they might like to take on educational roles at some point during their career. What advice would you get them from the things that you've learned so far? One thing I wish I had done earlier, which I've only just finished, is the post graduate. Stiffer gait, medical education, um, again, with an idea you can get a Bursary towards it, so they pay 3000 lbs, which covers three quarters of the cost of it, which makes it slightly less painful. Um, and I really wish I'd done it sooner is, it's amazing how much you learn about how you learn a zealous how you can teach better. Um, all the teaching episodes I've done over the years would have been so much better, actually known what I was supposed to be doing rather than just delivering information, it's actually kind of helping the murders learn modern just standing there and delivering information, which is kind of why I thought it falls. But it would have helped so much going to exams as well. Understanding what my learning style is, which unfortunately don't have any exams to do and who brought it brings on totally. But it would have really helped me really wrong to do that, So I would strongly suggest, if you if you really want to do education, there's, ah you know, the role lecture on Get on into the early. But there's lots, of course, is a swell, which you're not quite so intensive. You training the trainers and teach the teachers and things like that as well. But if you get invited to be faculty on a TLS or now a faculty that C was talking about, that's amazing. Learning experience is, well, the teaching cause they do for that is fantastic. So for anything, if they say, would you like to be faculty, grab it because they'll give you training. And then just being involved in any of these organizations is wonderful. You have a great time. You know, we haven't amazing time on a on a TLS as well as having a lot of time teaching as well, Then you make great friends around all around the country. I think it's also these opportunities open more doors, don't they? On it's due, you know, Democrat. Never underestimate actually saying yes to one opportunity what that will then lead to or putting yourself out there when you're at a conference to go in network with people that you don't know, it's just amazing the doors that then subsequently open it so educational. Roll aside, what would you say is the best part of your job? Um, surgeon? So operating biggie? Um, you know, like I said, it's a real privilege to do what we do. Um, a Z another. People say it's great fun. I love being orthopedic surgeon. Um, and I loved meeting the patients as well and getting to hear their stories. And what we do is quality of life, you know, very rare that we're doing something lifesaving that we can really make any impact on quality of life. Um and yeah, it's being out to do that with power tools. Fantastic. What's not to like? My final question to wrap up the evening is what are you most proud of so far in your career? I don't know that I'm most proud of, but where I feel most grateful is getting the consultant job in the hospital that I really wanted to work in. Um, what we see, we work in a DJ age, but I worked with two other fabulous women and now with Helena's. Well, when I go a point, it was just so you and Victors. Um, but now we got Helena's Well, So you got four consultant female surgeons on Do it is the most supportive, wonderful environment work in, um and there's a trainee, and I desperately wanted to work that because as soon as I walked in the place, I felt accepted that nobody batted an island. That I was a girl. Um, everybody doesn't seem Ducati the job on I think that's the environment we create for our trainees now. So that's the thing I'm most proud of, actually. Is getting the consultant job exactly where I wanted it in the place where I feel accepted and support it? Amazing. Thank you so much, Laura. Um, I'm just going to sit for a second and just check if there's any questions that coming up in the chat box last few seconds for anyone to put some thinking if they would like in the mean time soon. Or Helen, Any questions that you wanted to ask your? Not lower on the spot that she hasn't said a favor. Oppression. Cage. Yeah, I'm going. What is your favorite? Great as a shoulders. Imagine. Oh, gosh. It's gonna be shoulder. Uh, I do like a like a trauma, and I like shoulders say, probably a really good for me humeral fracture that you gotta You gotta think on the spot. Can I fix it? If I got to replace it again, it's a little kind of the planning and the approaches and think you on your feet a little bit. Reason. Sorry, Helen. It's not a pediatric one. We should end with asking Helen more hair favor. I didn't have talent. So go on this chase. What? What is your favorite pediatric operation? Do you know, I think I think it has to be a a open reduction of, Ah, deviate just because it's it's you know, it's awfully bread and butter. It's, you know, it's the the afraid she learned. That's right, fetuses, and nobody really fully understands and todo do them on. But, um, Onda, it's just awesome because it's there's a tiny person on. But it's incredibly from today, and you feel kind of cool when it goes well and not so cool when it doesn't. It's a hip down it. We've got no more questions in the chat. I just wanted to say a massive thank you to allow the colleagues that have come today to support setting this up so big. Thank you to your but also a massive thank you to all of the trainees, medical students, doctors that signed in actually internationally tonight to come and support the group. In putting this on, it will be available on the Be Away website and continual Medal for many other women wanting to come through and consider a career in orthopedics. So many, many thanks, guys. It's been great on Thank you, Kate, My pleasure searching out Thank you so much about years and to bite it. Hope that somebody this has helped somebody somewhere. Absolutely. And that's all it is, isn't it? That's all we're trying to do here is just to promote visibility of women in orthopedics and what amazing career that you can have in such diverse of specialty choices, diverse opportunities that you might want to take on from education management, overseas work. It really is not limiting you in your choices. There's so much to choose from. There is a feedback link for any anyone that would like to participate in the feedback so that if we do something like this in the future, we can hopefully make it even better. But I've kept your for too long, so I'm going to let you escape. Thank you everyone. Bye.