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um, Nicole Online and Nicole. If you're ready to go, then we can. Hello. Hi, Karen. How are you? Thank you for joining us this morning. You're welcome. Thank you for having me again. Um, you're so if you're okay with this one, we're a little ahead of time, But we will start on to the next talk, So yeah, really pleased to introduce you, uh, Nicole Ari. She is the e D. I Lied and Equality Achievement Network chair at the Royal National Orthopedic Hospital. And she is the future leaders program need for the North Central London. I see s Nicole is an experienced leader and practitioner in equity diversity inclusion and has a proven track record in delivering impactful. Evidence based D I in interventions to embed equitable, inclusive experiences, culture and processes within organizations. Shit. Nicole is renowned for being astute, engaging, insightful and compassionate. She's a passionate advocate and ally for the lived experiences and human rights for marginalized and underserved communities. Nicole is committed to dismantle incident discrimination in the in the NHS, and it's a really passionate and engaging speaker. And I'm really, really pleased to have her with us today to be delivered an excellent section, um, session at our culture diversity Training Day in April, which is extremely well received. I still hear praises from people who attended. Talk about about her session. So we're really pleased that she can join us today. Well, thank you. Thank you. I didn't know you were going to read my bio out straight to get back, but thank you very much. And yes, thank you for having me again. And hopefully I can be as impactful today and we're going to take a different angle. Then we did the last time, so hopefully I can bring you along. I'm just going to share my screen cream. Yeah, that's popping up. Brilliant. I can see you all and I can see the tat. So today, Um, like I said, I'm going to take a slightly different angle. And I'm going to talk to you a little bit more about the other side of the coin in respect of diversity and inclusion. And that's the belonging part which is more the inclusive part and how we can cultivate belonging in the workplace. Um, so let me just crack on. Really? So today what can you expect um, lots of engagement and participation. This session actually can't happen without your engagement and participated. So I hope you're prepared, and I've got some ways for us to do that anonymously. And then people can also come forward and share. I'm hopeful that there'll be ability for us to chat. I can see the chat as things come up. So please do, um, comment as we go along, Um, we're going to explore and identify identity and belonging in the workplace. It's something that, um, for a lot of us is a relatively new concept. And actually, what is it's role in the workplace? Um, and we're going to explore together how we can actually nurture this within orthopedics and, um, within surgical. Especially. I shouldn't just say orthopedics, actually, but yes, but yeah, um, within your specialty, so belonging. What does this mean? I meant it when I said we were going to talk to each other today. So hopefully all my mentees work, So can you please kindly go to www dot minty dot com Or, if you got the phone, that you can scan that lovely little QR code there and enter the code 568 6 to 937 5686 to 937. I'll leave that there for a minute so everybody can get in there. Okay? Are brilliant. You guys are already doing it. Yeah. So what does belonging mean? And everybody's ready jumping on. So if you're not there, don't worry. At the top of the screen, you can see www dot mentee dot com and the code is also there. So let's just add. So, so far, we've got feeling celebrated, feel included, respected being yourself, being together, equal team safety. Brilliant. And this is a word cloud. So the bigger the words, the more important they are, the more people are saying them. So authenticity, yes. Being yourself. I'll leave it up for another couple of minutes. Old people think. I think you can add as many as you like. I think I'm not sure if I set a limit. Actually, collaboration, comfort welcomed Safety is emerging as a bigger word, so that's really important in this room. Contentment. Oh, I like that Content and acceptance apologies If I reread any words as well because mentee moves things around and I'm like, Wait, which words authenticity. Contentment. Comfort is coming up again as a big word. Comfort and safety are really important. Supportive? Yes. Performing at your best. Oh, I like that one. That one's never come up before performing at your best. But look Yeah, I guess. Home. Ah, yes. Home. Yes. Okay, give it a few more seconds, and then I'll pop us along. But I really like this. So as of room, this is really set the tone for us and what we all think belonging means. And actually, yeah, I would I I can't type in myself, but, um, I I can identify with all the words on the screen, actually. So yes, everybody in the room. This is how we feel about belonging. Okie dokie, right? I'm going to move this on back to the slides, So Oops. So because I'm a bit of a geek, I thought putting saying that. What does belonging mean? How can I get a good definition? I thought like I look at the dictionary, but I thought it would be pretty black a bit mare, But actually, I'm honest. I was actually quite surprised. So, um, Oxford dictionaries described belonging as a feeling of being comfortable and happy in a particular situation or with a particular group of people and being true, treated as a full member of the group. Now that was really surprising to me, in the sense of it felt very well. It felt warm. If I'm honest, comfort, happiness being treated as a full member of the group. Okay, And I also liked Cambridge dictionaries one as well. It went a little bit further, so that sense of happiness and comfort came up again. As you saw, we had comfort come up as a word when we were defining belonging. And it really goes further to emphasize it's about having good relationships with other members of the group because they welcome you and accept you. I thought that was really powerful, and it went a bit further. To say a sense of belonging is one of humanity's most basic needs. So this is essential, um, to the way that we function as as humans as people. Um and it's it's necessary. Um, so what place does that have at work? Does that belong at work? Because I I think we're all well versed with this idea. We come into work where Professional? Where? Robots. Uh, but the reality is that that's not necessarily the case. Um and, um, great place to work is like an international consultancy that looks at belonging in the workplace, and there's a whole range of things. Um, I recommend you welcome to go and have a look at them in your own time and and see some of the things that they do. And they define belonging in the workplace as an employee sense that the uniqueness is accepted and even treasured. Okay, uniqueness is accepted and treasured by their organization and colleagues. And belonging is an a culmination of those day to day experiences that enables us to be safe and bring our full, unique sense of self to work. So again, we're seeing the same theme about safety, acceptance, and it's not acceptance. I hear a word that goes around a lot, or we need to have more tolerance for people. I don't want to be tolerated. I hate that word. Language matters to me. I hate when people tolerate it. It's like put up with me for the sake of it, or you put up with something because you have to. I don't want to be tolerated. I don't like that word personally, but I recognize I don't chastise people when they use it to me. But when I hear it, it makes me go. Whoa. Um, but, um, for me, I really like that. I don't want to be tolerated. I want to be accepted. I want to be understood. I want to be treasured. I loved that treasured, um, at work. And of course, to be able to do that, I have to feel safe. Um, and so I guess, the next thing again. Another question. What uniqueness do you want to be accepted and treasured at work. And let's be very specific in in the theaters, in the surgical spaces in with our colleagues in with our mentors and with our consultants. What do we want to be accepted and treasured at work. So again, go to menti dot com. It's the same code for this 1568, 79. I'll actually, I need to move the slides on. Otherwise you won't be able to enter. You'll see the same thing. Come on, come on. There we go. So now you should be able to have the option to put those in. So what uniqueness do you want to be accepted and treasured at work and again, Anybody joining? I know you all are thinking, um, I'm getting used to silences and getting people the option to get in, but it's www dot mentee dot com. 5682937. And if anybody's having any problems, just can you just pop anything in the chat? Yeah. Being L g B T Q. Yes, that's very important. Cultural background height. Yes, people are really underestimate. Height is, um it's a thing like, um and I understand from the last time I was here, Um, the how height baby is not appreciated and accepted, particularly in the surgical specialty. So yes, uh, that one for sure. Individuality. A relative petite body. So again, body size coming into play. So heights and petite nous Um, absolutely. My social background and insight. It gives me an understanding into patient's and colleagues. Yeah, yeah, that insight. That diversity of thought, The way that we perceive things, I have a There's a brilliant story, actually, of why diversity matters. And I think I'm pretty sure it is in America And there was a woman, a black woman on the ward. Um, and they wanted to have her a psych assessment, which would for us would be like, you know, mental Health Act assessment because they repeatedly saw her hit in her head. Um and so they were getting ready to do this assessment. And, uh, an African American doctor came in and saw her and was like, Yeah, I know she's fine. And if there were anybody, any black women in the room or anybody who knows anything about black women are hair. If we have extensions and weaves and things like that and it itches. So to get rid of the itch, we put our heads. If it wasn't for that cultural experience and relevance, they would have put her under a mental health Act assessment. But really, it was just so she had an itchy scalp. But if you don't, if you're not a black woman or if you aren't a black person or don't know anything about black hair, you wouldn't know. So yes, having that insight and the value that your social or your cultural background brings into the way you interact with your patients and colleagues is essential. It's a relatively humorous example, but I think that was a good one. Religion Expressionism. Oh, I like that. Uh, is that in the sense of and and whoever said that, I mean, I appreciate this is anonymous. Is that in the sense of the way that you express yourself? So, uh, is this about you know, when people, uh, you know, racial stereotypes about people being loud or people being really insular and very quiet the way that we express ourselves and how that links to to our cultures and things like that? Um, feel free to elaborate. You don't have to, but feel free to femaleness. So your womanhood that's important. Yeah, uh, different approach to speaking to patient. So I wonder if that relates to the Expressionism. So everybody's got a different tone, a way of speaking, a way of relating to things. Genders come up again. Yeah. No, I think that's really good. So unless they're, I'll give it a few more moments. All there's some more I need to scroll down. I forget with this one. Privatizing families like yes, absolutely. Um how so? Marietta, I hope I'm pronouncing your name right has said yes in Expressionism. She meant how you dress, how you act being your genuine self. Yes. So all of these things. So for me, uh, as an example, because I can't talk to you all. I don't know if we're allowed to mute here. Uh, for me, like that Being able one of my favorite moments, um, of, of belonging in the workplace in relation to Expressionism. It was our hospitals 100th birthday, and we had our summer party, and it was for all staff and families could come along and we were going to march and pride the next day. So I had my pride t shirt on. I had my hair in a hairstyle that I wouldn't normally wear to work. It's more like my purse. I had it in a ponytail, a big ponytail, and I had my, um my my cultural by African head wrap on. I came to work my husband and my arm, my daughter on my hip, and it just being able to x express myself in a more I guess, Let's say informal way. It is still a part of me. It felt so nice. So yeah, being able to be yourself. And I appreciate that's a very social context. But even in the workplace, coming into work, day to day, how we express ourselves, you know, for me wearing my my pride lanyards, my anti racism, birds and all these kind of things, um, it's a sense of genuineness, A sense of genuineness. Genuineness. Excuse my grandma if I got that wrong, but yeah, no, I think that's so important. So yeah. So prioritizing family time. Like I said, being a parent, um or even for people who are carers, is really important. And I understand, in surgical specialties as well, that's a particularly challenging aspect to manage. And actually, um, from what I understand, there can definitely be more scope for how we improve on that, uh, in surgery. Um, yes. So right. So now I'm going to take us back to our slides. So, um, in order for belonging into manifests. And this came up as one of the biggest words, not psychological. But safety is so important, we can't be ourselves unless we feel safe. So I felt safe to come and express all those elements of my identity at work because I knew that I would be welcome that I would be celebrated, that I would be appreciated. So I couldn't do any of those things without feeling safe. And Amy Edmondson She's like a huge, um, amazing researcher in in in relation to to psychological safety and And she's got a few bits actually in relation to psychological safety, specifically in the workplace. And this is the belief that we will not be punished or humiliated for speaking up with ideas, questions, concerns or mistakes. And I think in that sense it does also apply to our sense of self and how those things relate to these things. So we need to know that we're not going to be tracked ized or humiliated or punished or alienated for being ourselves, and I think that's really important. Um, so again, I did say, I'm not here to give you all the answers because belonging is and safety is so subjective. So I'm going to ask you another question. So it's a different code this time, Um, so the question is what will make you feel safe to bring your full, unique self to work and go to Menti and enter the Code 36361585. And I am going to get up the other slides because mentee will only let me do I have to take you into a new one. Uh, let me close this out. Bear with me one second. You can still go to Menti and do that. Come on. There we go. Uh huh. There we go. So are brilliant. People are already starting to put that in there. There we go. So what will make you feel safe to bring your full, unique self to work? So rainbow landing RDA. So I hope me having my pride lanyard makes you feel safe today, which is really nice visible diversity in the workplace. Absolutely. Um I think, uh, whatever characteristic you look at it from race, gender, gender, identity. And I include men in that I include white people in that I include this gender heterosexual people in that you know, when you go into a space and you can see somebody who looks like you're represents you and you feel a bit more at ease, it's we all experience that on any spectrum, whether but we belong to a privileged group or two a marginalized group coming into somewhere where we see people who look like us who may think like us who, um, will understand us. Um really matter. So, yeah, as we can see people, representation matters, people who look like me, it's important feeling included, yes, it being included in conversations. Absolutely. We all want to be able to walk into a room and feel like, Oh, I feel like I can join in this. So I feel like I can listen. I feel like I can say what I want to say without being judged or chastised and punished. You know, about making a mistake. It's really important. I imagine that that part feeling included in confidence again I invite you all. I appreciate this as anonymous, and I do that very intentionally because not everybody wants to share. Um, but please elaborate in the comment section. Um, like I said, I don't know how interactive we can be and I'm meeting mix, and I don't just like to talk to myself, so, yeah, if you want, Anybody wants to elaborate more. So, yeah, I imagine that feeling included in conversations, particularly as Chinese and coming into spaces where there is an established hierarchy, and I know when it comes to surgery that, you know, some of the our leading experts and shoulders are some of the people that can only do what they are, the only people who can do what they do in the whole world. So there is a sense of or and whether it's perceived, or, um, or if it's perceived or it's an actual statement, you know it can. It's important to be able to feel like you can contribute or that you can ask questions and that you can, um, from a professional or like a career perspective. I guess it's really important affirmations. I live for affirmations. I actually have an affirmation playlist of songs. They're so important. Um, and I say affirmations. I say them to myself first, Um, I they have to come for me first. One of my, my, my coaches, uh, challenges to me is to pay attention to feedback. Um, but to also think about myself first. And what do I think of myself say yes. Affirmations for myself and then, uh, accepting affirmations from others. We shrink away from positive feedback, don't we, um, or encouragement were like Oh, but the moment somebody says anything remotely critical, where there's room for improvement, we tear that apart to the degree. And actually, we need to be a bit more intentional in taking in those positive things as well. An experience of a positive culture in that workplace. And I'm going to ask actually, that person, if you want to, I'm going to invite you to to just elaborate on that. In, In, in, in the comments. What? What contributes to a positive culture for you? Um, what is a positive culture? Maybe it's some of the things we've already said, but I'd be quite interested in that positive, constructive, spontaneous discussion's in the workplace. Yes. Oh, that's important. I saw a flattening of hierarchy. Yeah, absolutely. Love that active ally ship, um, and calling out discriminatory behavior. Yeah, Um, that is is a really important one. And and if anybody, um, comes to the r n o h on on or is already at the r N o h, we actually have the training called active bystander training, Um, that we've commissioned and it teaches you actually how to be an active bystander and calling out is one of four options that you can take to effectively stamp out discriminatory behavior and maybe actually something I can talk to Karen about. Maybe it's something that we can have them come and do a session at Botha very specifically because it's it's brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant skills to have, um, colleagues talking about, um, GI issues. Yeah, I think that open dialogue, isn't it? It's It's really important. And I heard I think Was it Kate, uh, speaking earlier that there are some people who just don't think it's an issue and don't want to talk about it at all, and everybody is on their own journey with that. But I think that we should continue to talk about them in in the various aspects, both in respect of institutional discrimination into personal discrimination and also in more some of the positive sense. I think we shouldn't underestimate the value that talking about inclusion and belonging, um, has an in shifting things. And actually for some people who may struggle to talk about the harder side of the of the topic, you know, those discriminatory parts, um, coming, inviting them in or welcoming them in through the inclusion lens might might be that little switch that shifts them a bit more. Everybody's different, though, So, um yeah, I know, but I think it's really important. Okay, so, no, I think that's really important. So we've had a look about what are the conditions for safety. So it's about representation seeing yourself, and I actually, um, push everybody to think a bit about representation, because often when we think of representation, it's this part, isn't it? People who look like me? Um and I think that's important initially, but I think sometimes literally, actually it can I personally find it can be a bit very, uh, what's the word? A bit surface of a bit superficial if we stay there because, uh, I'm trying to think of an example that's not a political one, but I think this is a safe space. I'm going to call it if I walked into a room and I saw Tony Sewell, for example, or Kemi bad. Enoch. Uh, so Tony. So if anybody doesn't know, he wrote the report government report a couple of years ago that said racism doesn't exist in Britain, And Kenny Bad Enoch was an equalities minister who, um Yeah, I had some very particular. Both of them are black, and they have very particular views that racism doesn't exist. And we should all just get on with it. And I'm here and I pulled myself up. If I walked into a room and saw them, they look like me, but they do not represent my interests. So for me, representation is there is a visual element for sure that visual impact of diversity when I walk into a sense of space and there's a range of people from different backgrounds, different genders different, um, you know, uh, sexual identities, all of that different religions. I feel like Ah, yes, I feel very comfortable. But I would also challenge you all to think about representation in a sec. Actually, it's people who can represent your interests. So this is the allies part. So people who don't belong to those communities or people who hold privilege in those spectrums who are able to represent your interests are equally important. And that's been a part of my learning curve. So I'll push you to think about that, that visual element. And I think if we stay at the visual part, we can very easily get lost in tokenism where it's just Oh, just there to take the quota. Um, even though it's important that visual diversity happens, Um, I think we need to be very careful in how we hold and dissect that and put that out there. So for me, it's people who look like me, but also people who can represent my interests and creating genuine space for people to exist in the variety of shapes and forms that they come in. Uh, there's another one, uh, so seniors have a strong impact on culture. Um, seeing seniors treat each other and juniors respectfully listening, including validating comments, calling out bad behavior. It makes it safe for junior to be themselves. And this literally is a brilliant example of what I speak to its role modeling or real modeling, as I call it, people actively, you know, demonstrating what needs to exist. And the last time I I came and I met you all, um, at back in April, and I had some wonderful conversations after the session and, you know, people talk about some examples of, you know, senior leaders calling out bad behavior without, I guess, pointing the finger of ism. So you're racist or sexist, All that kind of stuff. And I think one great example and I've added it to my repertoire of, um, interrupters. I call them to, like, discrimination, interrupters or safety interrupters, I say, uh, and one example was, um, a consultant who was, I think somebody a consultant who was in, like, I think it was like, where you guys prep for the surge. Excuse me. I'm I've never been in a surgical space and to be honestly, I don't think I could hack it. Um, but, uh, and there was a conversation. I can't remember what the tone was, but it was it was an inappropriate tone and they simply said, I'm not going to participate in this conversation and it stopped everything in its tracks. I think that's a great example of that leadership. Anyway, it didn't have to say, you're wrong or you're being sexist. You're being racist or whatever the topic was going on. But just saying I'm not participating in this conversation. It was a queue that it was inappropriate that they were going to lead by example and not contribute to it. And the example was then followed, and others stopped contributing to it so that absolutely having those role models real modeling, um, things can have a huge shift. So it's It has to be. And that's why across the inclusion, equality, diversity, inclusion, field it. There's a strong emphasis on top down and bottom up because it doesn't happen without senior leaders committing to it in their own behaviors, and also in the way that they they work and act and operate in the systems and processes. So brilliant, Thank you all. This is some great. And just so you know, I I will save these. These get saved and I can I can make sure that they get shared out so you can all see some of the examples, the things that you talked about and because it's all anonymous. Nobody knows who says what. So it's a nice, little safe way to have some reflections on on what we discussed today. Um, so we're nearly there, so identity is is really important. It's it's what makes you you. It makes it's what makes us who we are and what I'm going to get you to do. Actually, this is a lovely little exercise. Um, if you've got some paper in front of you and I'm going to ask you to just write down the parts of your identity just in any orders, right list any wing, you know, it could be, you know, your agenda. It could be woman. So for me, be woman mother, wife black. Well, not actually. Wouldn't be black. It would be British. Caribbean. So London, Jamaica. Uh, Baker, it would be dancer. It would be those kind of anything about your identity that matters to you. And then, well, I'm not going to ask anybody to put them in the comments or anything like that. Whoops. So just be freeing in what you write. And I'm wonder, actually, if I'm just going to briefly stop sharing my screen just so I can see somebody. Hi, everyone. Can you, um I can only see Karen, Kate and and fill. Hi, Karen. Brilliant. And so because I know Karen very well. And you may absolutely refuse me. Karen, I will not be offended, but would you like to share some of the things you wrote on your list? You can say no. I'm happy to share. I'm pretty open about some of this. Um, so I've written quite a few things. It just goes on and on. Um, I wrote, you know, gender queer, being female, being Chinese, uh, humanitarian. Also surfer. Because I love surfing a nature lover. I love being in the outdoors, um, be in the mountains, being in the ocean. Written daughter, a sister, a partner and then surgeon, which I thought was interesting because I realized I wrote that quite far down the list. Uh ha. So that's really interesting. So the premise of this exercise is the things that we write down first are the things that are the most prominent and most important to us. Um, it's not the same things at the bottom of the list, our lesson that are not important at all. But they're not, as I think, that's the thing is, you write the list, you realize Ah Oh, hang on. And he I think if you actively think about it, surgeon is a really strong part of your identity. But when you break it down, actually, you see there are more parts of yourself and how you know, to those parts, was there anything else on the list by that, uh, I kind of just stopped. So no, that's thank you so much. Carrying for showing. And thank you for for being willing participant in my, uh, my activity. I think that's so, so important. Um, that we understand who we are and how that manifests as we come to work. We can't just switch those things off as we come into work. It matters to who we are. It's a part of who we are. Right. Um, and I think it's really important that we think about ourselves, our parts of our identity and how they will manifest and how we want them to show in the workplace. Um, so that we can start bringing them in those spaces where we feel safe where we feel valued where we feel accepted, belonging, trusted all of those things I am, and then go back to share my say Thank you very much, Karin? Uh huh. Yeah. Brilliant. So, uh, there we go. So when we think about identity, identity tends to form into two parts in general. So we've got our social identity, so this could be our caring responsibilities. And I've been very intentional with my language. Because often people go parents or mothers. And actually, we're not. Parents are the only people with caring responsibilities. Neither our mother's, uh, relationship status our age or ethnicity, sexuality, gender identity, our socioeconomic background. Uh, disability, religion, belief. And I think if any of you are well versed with the equality act as I mean, do I need to be from my job? Um, but a lot of these actually form, um, the protected characteristics. So, um age, ethnicity, relationship, gender, identity, religion, belief, disability, sexuality. Um, so relationship status is more marriage, civil partnership very specifically. Um, and on top of that, there's also pregnancy. Maternity also comes in as the non protected characterises. You've got our social identities, and then they're also limits of personal identity. So this is our family, our hobbies, interests, personality, our profession, geographic community, sports teams, skills and talents. Um, these are the things that generally I'm being very broad here that tend to make us who we are. And the value of expressing identity is is essential because there's a diversity of culture and behaviors and values that we can benefit from by being able to bring these things So So we talked about that. I mention that example of, you know, the black woman in the hospital patting her head, You know, they were ready to section her, you know, in a in a mental health ward. And actually, all she was doing was having a good old itch. You know, um, it sounds very simple, but that matters. And when you if any of you are aware of the wider context of of mental health and and how race and, uh, gender play into it, you know, the the expectations or the the the the bias is in in along the lines of race and gender really show up making. I think in the UK, I think. But I don't know the latest figures I think it's about. I think black men are, like five or six times more likely to be sectioned under the Mental Health act. Um, as compared to two white men. I will need to go back and fact check that, but there's a There's a disproportionate, um, impact. So, you know, it's not just about coming to be ourselves. It has an impact. Like, um, uh, it was mentioned earlier, and I think in Kate's talk. I think Karen mentioned it. You know, it has an impact on how we care for our patient's and not just how we interact with each other. It matches connections. You know, it's all about connecting to one another and how we relate to each other. So, you know, um, you know, Karen identified herself as gender queer. I'm also a pan sexual person. So there's another connection there that I can nurture with her and build on, you know, being part of the LGBT community. It's absolutely, you know, it's vital to how you build those connections and friendships. And I I say I will say friendships because I think friendships do belong in the workplace personally, not just those great collegiate relationships, but so is great personal ones to, um, you know, relationship building. It's a foundation of networking. You connect with people, and I think, you know, building a relationship within your team as well. It's absolutely, you know, essential. Um, there's so much to benefit. It builds trust. When you see somebody show a part of themselves like Oh oh, I feel like I can trust them and I feel like because that relates to me and this all very I put these in a very particular order because they all flow into another, um, and the agenda support. You know, you know, somebody mentioned, you know, rainbow badges, and I'll use an example. You know, somebody who expresses whether they're an ally or a member of the community, you know, you can go to that person for support. Um, you know, when you've got an ally who understands the dynamics of, you know, bias and and racial discrimination that, you know, you can express them. You know, for me, my my line manager, manager. She's a white woman, and she's a wonderful AL. I'm and I go sometimes and do outreach. And I experienced the very microaggressions that are the source of the reason why I'm they're going to her and being able to get that support. It really matters. Um uh, in in being able to express my identity and to be a be honest about the things that impact me. Yes, I'm immediately, but I'm still a person, you know, and I'm also a person who belongs on various spectrums who holds privilege and who, who is also marginalized so having that support really matters. And you know, when you express your identity, identity cultivates belonging, but you'll come to work being able to show these things. There's really rarely a person you won't be able to touch, and and in in in a sense of all, I can identify with them. So it really, really matters. So the last part of the puzzle now I know, uh, through being in various spaces most important, most valuable, actually so far has been spending time with you guys at voter. And I want to come and spend more time with you all. Um, what can we do in orthopedics to foster a greater sense of belonging? And I'm trying to go down a very specific angle thinking about the very specifics, um, that we face in in orthopedics in surgical specialties. Um, what can we start to do to break some of those barriers down? So calling out discrimination is is a really important part of taking down institutional barriers, but generating belonging is is one of them. So I'm hopefully my mentees going to switch so that you guys can actually start to put those on. Come on, Mentee Whoops. All right. OK. Bear with me. One second. Technical issue. Uh, I know what it's doing. Come on. It's there. I know. I created it. Come on. Why won't they let me present? Hmm? There it is. Hyzaar. There we go, guys. Sorry. There for a second. I thought I didn't actually create the extra slide. I did So again, Menzie dot com. And it's code 36361585. Uh, thank you. So, yeah. Bring back the firm structure and encourage team working. Or can I ask if you feel comfortable or sorry? Let me rephrase that. Can I invite you if you choose to elaborate what you mean by the firm structure? Um, I'm not sure if that uh, yeah, I'm gonna make sure I understand what you mean by that. So if you could drop that in the chart or if you if you feel comfortable to no pressure. And I think the smell, um, some of the things and we kind of take it back to those parts where we said, um, so it's all helped seniors and other staff groups understand the importance of belonging. Yeah, absolutely. If anybody wants me to come and do this presentation with their seniors. Just talk the align. It's a great way to get the conversations that I've done this once before. Um, in our trust at r N o H. And we had our CEO and our chief people officer in there and it had a, you know, had a massive impact. Actually, it was a really, really valuable conversation. So, yeah, talking about belonging is really important. Um, but I was going to say earlier on we talked about some of the elements of, um I've got what the first question answer was. But we came up with some things about what was important about, you know, belonging in the workplace. And you know what? People wanted to be accepted, and people talk about things like height and size. Um, like petite nous and some of the solutions that I've heard, you know, it's about, you know, thinking about things from different perspectives. So going people's heights in terms of surgical procedures and things like that equipment, um, you know, making sure that we've got the right equipment for, for for different body types for different groups, you know, head coverings for starting me, and we got my big Afro and things like that, or locks or people who wear coverings for for religious reasons and all those kind of things. Um, you know what? What will matter? Um, in in, in the respect of orthopedic surgical orthopedics, for getting a greater sense of belonging. Uh, brilliant. Thank you, Marietta. So Marietta said previously, the hospitals working structure, Um oh, facilitated age. Working for one consultant, age, working for one, cause I'm virgin s h O. We were a tight team supporting one another. And changes to working practices make the way we work more solitary. Right? So this is about bringing. So this this is about the team putting in a particular structure to help with team working. Um, So you've got support, um, from each other, But I hope I've understood that correctly. Marietta. Okay. No. Yeah, I think that's important. Um, and so some of that's about the way that we is this about the way that we organize schedules and things like that. Uh, somebody. I was in a woman and orthopedics session, and somebody mentioned that there was, like, a bias in the allocation of administrative work by, um, I can't remember which trust it was. And and, um, the the administrator was allocating more administrative task to women because so and that meant they had less time in theaters and in in certain in in, um, with the surgeons facilitated. Thank you. Really? Thank you. Marianne, to, um Yeah, you know. So there was even a bias in the way. So, basically, women, you stayed behind the computer, and men can go and do the work in, in in theaters. So even things like that, I was like, Whoa, what? I was really surprised by that one. Um, so having resources such as 5.5 Gove's actually available rather than being made for difficult for us, that part, that accessibility immediately rather than being an exception and having to ask, Yes. Absolutely, really. Great idea. Um, dedicated time for team building so important and valuable. Compassionate leadership. Yeah, absolutely. Uh, if anybody wants to know anything about compassionate leadership, particularly in the NHS, if you're not reading or consuming anything by Michael West, you're missing a big trick profession. Michael West. He does a whole bunch of researches and stuff. The King's fund is is a phenomenal just Google him If you if you aren't already aware of him about the facets of compassionate leadership, uh, specifically in relation to healthcare, it's Oh, it's phenomenal, actually, uh, some of, uh, there's another sense. A training that I do that is about that builds on those principles, escapes my mind at the moment, Uh, because there's too much other things going on. But yeah, my professor Michael West, uh, is phenomenal, uh, staff out there investing in people's and their values rather than solely service provision. Yeah, that part that care were just there to do a job because otherwise we all I think we've all said it isn't it. I think everyone says it is that you know, you, you you literally bust yourself to come into work. And at the end of the day, there's always that sentence is that if anything happens to me, they're just going to replace me anyway. And actually, whether there's a sense that actually, people see that human behind you and all those things. Whether, you know, we talked about you know, people accepting elements of yourself are use caring responsibilities, an example, you know, being able to balance your caring responsibilities. So if you're a carer or if you're a parent, um, or any woman care responsibilities, for example, being able to balance those knees is so important, and it makes you feel valued when you're that's able to be taken into consideration and balanced alongside service provision, rather than know the hours 9 to 5. So no, you can't go and pick your kid up. No, you can't. You know all of these type of things, which will contribute to the gender pay gap, etcetera, etcetera. Because then often it's the women who have caring responsibilities that then have to work less hours or not work at all, so that they can support care provision and all that kind of stuff. Um, encouraging and including diversity into orthopedics from a medical student level. So realigning those views that it's a safe place for everyone and then working on ourselves in more senior orthopedic rolls to make sure that it's actually safe and inclusive. Yeah, ground up nurturing, isn't it? So there's a sense of top down but also ground up so it should be embedded into practice from from the beginning, um, and at the arm anyway, that's something that we're working on on doing. Um, from, uh, people who come into our organization, not just medical students, but, um, we're looking, we're doing Are we doing are trust Wide Induction, but also making sure that in our medical induction that people have a slot, that we have a slot so that we can really champion that and that people get the chance to kind of experience those values as they come through the r N o h. So that it becomes a part of the way that they themselves, um, work. So yeah, so thank you. So, like I said, I will save, uh, these. These responses are saved and so that people everybody can kind of take. Maybe you can take some of these back into your spaces, or maybe even have conversations as, um as as a voter level or whether it's back in your teams or, you know, if anybody needs some advice and support from me and how to embed those things, you know, pick one. Um, you know, it's easy to think that we can scramble to all these ideas, but pick one, and if it's not up here and it's something that is there for you and and that matters to you or something that's very specific to you have to pick one and and and tackle it. And so, you know, uh, so you can bring that element of belonging so makes you know, whoever it was said about the gloves, maybe it's about going to, you know, whoever is responsible for procurement and just having that wide range immediately accessible as standard and make sure it's on the ordering roster. And and that can make it seems like a small thing, but it has a huge impact. So, yeah, I will make sure that you'll get to see those in their shared. So some of the things, Um uh, from listening to you all, uh, here today, Um, and the last time I was here and in some of the other, um, orthopedic spaces I've been in in respect of inclusion at the rno ancient through the National Orthopedic Alliance. Some of the noise, I guess that I'm hearing in some of the buzz that I'm hearing about what makes the difference in orthopedics. And I think they've all come up stage some way, shape and form is role models. So people, senior leaders and I would say, also as peers, you know, for me, I I look at Karen, I think she's a wonderful role model. Um, uh, in what she does. Um, and I know she's not a consultant yet, but you can see that, actually, even as peers, even y'all as the e I champions, um, you'll have a role to play in being a role model. And it's so important. Um, so we're we're not getting it may not necessarily be getting it from our senior leaders. We can still do for ourselves as well and for each other. And our senior leaders will come along on the journey, and hopefully it won't be too hard to bring them along. And hopefully most of them are willing and chomping at the bit, uh, to get into that space. And you can't have role models without ally ship. So, you know, people who will hold privilege and on along different spectrums, they have a key role to play in in, uh, making sure, um, that belonging becomes embedded into orthopedics. Um, and within that fits this. Um, you know, these key activities of mentorship coaching and and sponsoring. I know. Uh, who was I think it I can't remember. It was it. I think somebody in the HR profession and one of their things around their ally ship, they've made a choice. Um, I think when they do their rotations of coaching, they dedicate a particular proportion of their mentoring sessions to people from a marginalized ethnic community, very specifically very intentionally to work with them and support them. And I think that's a great example of positive Axion in in work. If anybody knows positive, Axion is about, uh, it's a very specific part of the equality that law is where you provide specific support in the areas and to those communities you need them. So this person, I can't remember what the proportion was, but they allocate very specific proportion of their mentorship time. Um, throughout the year, two people from marginalized ethnic groups, for example. So it's really important. And then, if anybody's unfamiliar with sponsorship, it's different from mentorship. So a mental will teach you how to do something, um, and give you certain experiences. A sponsor will actively work to enable you to progress and put you in in those positions so they will advocate for you and and and support you in in pursuing job opportunities. Um, like an active, proactive reference. I guess it's maybe a good way to describe sponsorship, um, training. So having that expertise so that not expertise but gaining that knowledge and experience of what's important in respect of inclusion, what's important in respect of individual progression, career progression is absolutely essential. Inclusive language. Uh, it's it really language for me is is I take language to heart. It's very important. And when I say this is not about, um, I don't not political, it's not about political correctness. It's about being, um, showing value and understanding. And if you make a mistake having a humility and a sense of mind to be aware of how somebody's responding and to support and recognize okay, that that word or that language might be okay for somebody. But actually, it's not OK for this person and and balancing in tension and impact, it's so important the way that we speak to each other. It really, really does matter, Um, and how we respond as well. So, like I said, I don't like the word tolerance it makes me my skin, cause you might say, now, did it cringe. But I'm not gonna chastise anybody who uses that word with me. Um, because I know that I understand where they're coming from, and I understand that there, but for me personally, I I don't want to be tolerated. It makes me feel uncomfortable, but I know it's not there in tension to to do that. And I guess, depending on the person I may or may not say, or I might just make a point. Actually, I'm more than tolerated. I want to be understood. I want to be welcomed so I might take a more of a positive rather than a. That's a horrible word, and you shouldn't use it. So I'm thinking about how and when we respond. It's really important, inclusive distribution of work. So this was that part about the biases and systems and processes and individuals. So the the way that in this trust that that you know, the administrator was allocating specific tasks to women trainees that they weren't allocating two men trainees, which meant that women we're not getting the same amount of time in theaters like they audited it and everything it was who was it? Can't remember it was Anyway. It's not fun. I'll find out I just to make sure I can actually share who it was. But making sure that when we're distributing work were distributing tasks. And I think I think actually, the last time I was at photos, you know, even in in the changing rooms um, you know So the male trainings, we're getting more opportunities to have those informal chats with the consultants in the mail change rooms. That's where there are more men. And actually, I think there was somebody said that their consultant made a decision not to do that so that it didn't exclude the women and things like that. So there was all sorts of going on there in inclusive distribution. There was role modeling. Inclusive language was it was a great example of different things coming into play, um, accessible clothing and equipment. So from the right gown sizes, right glove sizes, as somebody mentioned today and there was something else that came up, you know, around head coverings, uh, something else that I didn't think of. So my trust I'm now going to go and work with theaters and procurement to make sure that we've got all the accessible clothing as standard rather than as like, uh, somebody mentioned today and not as an an add on. So it's it's not an exception. Or, you know, people feel immediately valued belonging, inclusive recruitment, Uh, and this is really important. So this is about making sure that our panels are trained and they're they're not biased, Um, and that we, you know, we attract the talent that we want to see, and that's about having representative panel. So again, not just visual. Not just how we look. Because if I walked into an interview with, like, you know, swell a Braverman and Tony Sewell and I'm not getting the job, I personally I would think maybe they're not going to hire me. So people who can also represent our interests is really important, so avoiding tokenism but making sure that everybody on that panel understands how bias works in recruitment and and how, um, that we're attracting the talent that we want to see. And we're a bit stuck there, isn't it? Because people want to come and work in places where they see themselves represented And actually, if that representation isn't there yet in Valley in looks or in terms of representing interest, it's going to be a bit of a struggle. So, yeah, and well, being support is absolutely at the heart that we all want. I think somebody said, You know, we just want to be cared for, um or or supported, too, not just be ourselves, but to cope with all the different ways in which our identity in ourselves, you know, can come into the workplace and can manifest, Um, it's really important. And so this is some of the things that I've learned over the past several months for engaging more with within the orthopedic specialty about what is making the difference as as the I champions. Think about this, you know? Who are those role models? Who are those allies? How can you, you know, pull them to the front more? Um, so that they are. You know that there too, champion, that they are visibly seen not just to you, but to others. Or how can you step up to be a better ally, role model and all these things? So you have a think, you know, I make PdF slides available as well, so that you can have a think. But think about how you can bring these things into orthopedics, create a greater sense of belonging and, like I say, starts more pick one thing that really matters to you and and in your area and that you think will make a difference and and work from there and last. But at least, you know were people who were humans. Um, the NHS doesn't function without us. And I think people often say, Oh, you know, I'm here to I'm here to work. I'm here to just do I'm here for the patient's But we can't think that linearly when we come to work feeling good, feeling healthy, feeling safe, feeling comfortable, included, involved It all contributes to a better experience for our patient's greater delivery of care. When we value the diversity around us, we have greater cultural competence. So we're not. We're not seeing certain cultural behaviors or certain aspects and certain elements, you know, and assuming this is the worst, you know, if you look at what what is going on in in respect of, you know, the LGBT community making sure they feel more included and supported in healthcare, particularly trans and non binary people. You know, when we are able to better equip ourselves and bring those those elements into the Web, has it has such a huge impact on the quality of care. And one of the reasons why we're so internationally renowned as a wealth class healthcare provider is because each and every one of you, all of us, everything that we bring to the table from our skills and expertise, our compassion, are care. Our personality cultures, our identities. It all contributes to what makes the NHS so great and and enables us to do what we do. And I say that I'm very aware of the caveat of funding and and the way that our services, but ultimately it still runs on us as people and belonging is about nurturing. Are people to be fully present and comfortable as themselves and you can. Google is free. Reach research will tell you a million times over that diverse, inclusive workforce where staff feel as though they belong, contributes to better outcomes for staff, well being for patient care and well being. When our staff have a better experience our patient's benefit, too. And you're important your identity, your well being. Your experience is all integral to everything that we stand for in the NHS. So bring yourself to work, create those spaces, um, create be a part of creating that safety for yourself and father's, um to be to belong. And that's me, everyone. I have no idea if I've gone to time or not. I got so caught up in that you all are so interesting. But hopefully it's been valuable. I think I got about 45 50 minutes. So thank you, Karen. Thank you very much. Nicole. That was a really wonderful talk. And it's it's really nice to, you know, to hear such encouraging words, Um, and to feel like the the parts of us that make us different but also unique is actually, um, you know, positive and an advantage to the NHS. Um, it's, uh, no, that was a fantastic thank you very much. I do. I mean, you work in a unique place that you know, the Royal National Orthopedic Hospital, which is solely orthopedics. So you experienced the microcosm of orthopedics, you know, in its entirety. And, um so I think your experiences reflect quite truly on the specialty. Um, you know, from And then I know you attend, you know, national events and conferences as the e d. I lied for r N o h. Have you, um from your experiences speaking to different medical or other surgical specialties? What do you think is a unique part of orthopedics that had it was a unique challenge in orthopedics? And how do you think we can address that? Oh, that's a great question. Um, what is the unique challenge in orthopedics? I think the thing that comes up time and time again is gender and race, gender, race and age. Actually, um, for a very long time, orthopedics has very, uh, stereotypically been centered and around and white men, and obviously, because of the nature of medics, and you get to a certain age when you're at the top of the field, you're you're going to be a certain age. Um, and I had a really interesting conversation with with a colleague, um, and and they were very frank around, you know, he's like, Well, I they felt a loss, and it's like, you know, I'm going to be a white man until I retire, okay? And I was like, Yeah, no one's asking you not to not to be obviously. And he was like, Do I step down so that I can let somebody else come forward? I was like, No, no, you know, you step up to the forefront as an ally and you'd be intentional in the way that you lead the way that you support the way that you nurture. And to be fair, it was a really easy conversation to have, because I could pull up all those examples of the way he was already doing that. And it matters in what he notices the ideas and solutions he has to to think about. Oh, actually, this will make a difference. And there's they relatively small changes, but so impactful. So I think, um, the unique challenge that we face is trying to, um, shift a system that has enabled a very particular group to progress, very acts in an accessible way, and I think the other element of that is the context of it as well. And, um, there's a nature that I understand to orthopedics and what is required in surgery as well UM that isn't necessarily all attractive. It's quite a difficult. I understand. It's also quite in general, irrespective of of, of, of, of the lens of inclusion. It's quite as difficult field to recruit into, um, and and to get to get into. And I think there's something about acknowledging those inherent barriers that may not necessarily be based or solely around bias. That's important. So what can we do to make orthopedics more attractive on the whole? How can we nurture them, those next generations coming through to consider orthopedics as as a specialty? And within that, what role do these things play? Inclusion, belonging, representation, diversity. So I think that's the unique challenge that we we face. It's a very unique special is, um, you know, even in our mmh, we just got named like in the top 10. I think the ninth in the world is like one of the you know, um uh, heart member. You know, I should really remember that. But anyway, it's a very, um, unique. It's a specialist specialist space to be in, and it's actually those two elements of it is okay. Inherently, orthopedics isn't attractive to even to people who hold privilege. But then those When you do get into it, there's an equity there. So how do we dismantle the inequity? And how do we attract people into orthopedics on the whole. So how do we nurture? And it is some of those early things, you know from school. You know, I'm I'm a mother of three, you know, two boys and a girl. And and my role is about removing gender stereotypes and expectations on what they can. I can't do in certain things like that. And it's like, Well, what role do we play in in those early years in in nurturing? See, You know, I don't know anybody saw that wonderful. I'll see if I can find it and I'll pop in. Uh, I think there's a great video of of a group of kids in the School of Arts to draw people in certain roles, like firefighter, policeman, surgeon, and they all do men. And then they brought all of these professions in, and they were all women, and they were like, Whoa, like it's a brilliant thing. They didn't know, like what your woman like from a young age, whether we are intentional or not. It's ingrained into it and recognizing that gender roles play. And I think it's, um, what is it, uh, one of the Nordic countries, actually there, that one of the most inclusive countries in the world. And I've forgotten which country is, um, one of the Nordic countries. They're like they're like, at the top of the leaderboard for gender inclusivity. Yet they still have a gender pay gap. It's not shifting, it doesn't move. And that tells us that there's something inherent beyond us that nurtures and leads people into certain spaces. You know, uh and and how, what role do we play in trying to do that? And I personally think in orthopedics. It's like, you know, we say, Oh, there are enough women in orthopedics But yeah, I go into a space where there's wonderful women doing exceptional things. It's like, Well, they're here. They are here. Why aren't we screaming and shouting about them? Why aren't we showcasing it and and showcasing what we have to offer? It has to start somewhere. So, yeah, those are challenges, I think, and some potential solutions, I guess that's good. That's a very thank you. That's very insightful and I think, as you say it are know age is a unique space. Um, you know, as in is the leading in terms of its care in the world. But it also it faces those unique challenges. Um, uh, it's, uh I have one more question. If that's OK about you know, when your experience is working with leadership, how have they taken? You know, the concept of positive actions and positive affirmation because I think some people see this as positive discrimination, and we know that that's not allowed. How do we, um, describe it to them or make them understand how positive actions works and how we can do it in a fair and reasonable way? That's a really good question. So yes, so positive action and positive discrimination and two different things. So I can't recruit you just because you're a woman. That's positive discrimination, but I can take positive actions recognizing. Okay, um, women are actually marginalized, and they're not coming into orthopedic, so I can make sure that where I'm recruiting to, I'm recruiting in spaces where women exist so that they're attracted and being into the space for an example. Recruitment are really for me. A really easy way to explain positive actions or, for example, the mentorship example somebody chose. I'm gonna Certain portion of my mentorship starts are going to go to people from because they don't have the opportunities. And it's about positive. Axion is about recognizing the barriers in the system and taking them down. Um, and the law is very, very clear. You cannot positively discriminate, and you will get pulled up on it. I think there was an example of a police constable very somewhere in the Northeast. Um, it's a great case. For example, I can't remember the specifics of the actual case law title, But, uh, basically, they were like a police force like, Oh, we need We're not diverse enough. And we're just going to recruit people in these roles. And they just recruited people in black and brown communities that necessarily didn't have the qualifications for the job and and a white man applied. Um, he didn't get the job, he didn't get through and he bought a discrimination case against the constabulary, and it was ever did. It was obvious I was I was before they even told me what the outcome was like, How did they think? You can't just recruit people because of their skin color agenda or any protective if they don't meet the criteria? Um, so And also it's a great example of how the equalities act protects us all. Irrespective, people think, Oh, it's people with protected characteristics. Everyone has protected characters. And I was a white man. He was able to bring a discrimination case. Um, I digress. So I think for me positive actions is those very specific steps that we take to, um to remove a barrier for a particular community. And I think another example is like in healthcare example in cancer research. So prostate cancer black men are five times more likely to develop prostate cancer. So there is a study going on with Marsden, and they're doing some specific research into why that's happening in terms. And they're doing some screening and, uh, all that kind of stuff. It's like a really good exam. It's just for for black men and black people with prostate. That's a great example of positive action. They're going in, there's an inequity, and they're like actually something's going on with this community, and we need to do something specific to understand why. So they they've done this research program to specifically understand more and support black men and black people with prostates, too. Um, understand why that that that disparity exists and to also, um, you know, provide that support and those screenings So positive action is about taking area, removing a barrier for a particular community, not just inviting that particular community. And it's irrespective of anything else, um, and how the leaders respond to it. They're a bit tentative at first there, but like, um, and it, it can be easy. You can see where it can go wrong, but I think it's about it's that part, I think, is that it's it's we're addressing where inequity exists and we're removing that barrier, and that could be in in a variety of ways. And there's even elements of equality that also, there's a section I'll just got. It's called the Ticor a tie break clause. So if you have two people who both meet the criteria, have both scored exceptionally well, uh, the highest on on, uh, the interview. If one of those people belong to a group person from a marginalized group, so an underrepresented group in your trust as per your data. The law allows you to pick that person from the group, but there's very specific so that you're matching 50 50 like equal and applying the tie break clause. And that's an example of positive actions. Because you're recruiting to the under representative group, it has to be backed up by data and also by very robust score in an interview. So I would say, pitch positive actions. Removing a barrier to enable somebody in the same way that we make reasonable adjustments for people with a disability, disabled parking spaces and rams is not saying, Oh, well, you're favoring stable people know you're giving them what they need to access, and I mean so those are some easier analogies to break down. But leading with the law really, really helps. That's that's great, thank you. I think that's really helpful for just to break it down to those parts because I think sometimes people you know, as you say, leaders are apprehensive in how they approach it. Actually, when you give these examples and you you do lead the law, it's, um you can just understand it in its individual aspects. Um, and I think you're right. The disabled parking, um example, is a really, really clear example of how we're not discriminating. Positively for the, um, for people with disabilities is that we need to move the barrier for them to access the same services exactly that. It's exactly that part. And I think sometimes you take that out. I think people are. It's very easy to mix positive discrimination. Um, and there was Sometimes I'm pulling it in as simply as I can, because there are some complexities that do exist. Don't get me wrong. Um, but I think when we think about programs that you know reach out to those who are underrepresented groups, marginalized groups or try to address and imbalance, that tends to be where the half positive Axion really is. So one of my other jobs is a future leaders program, so that's a positive action program training program for staff from marginalized ethnic communities band 18 above to get them into exact roles within the next year. It's so it's it's about recognizing that they don't get option opportunities to do certain roles, certain projects and things that will give them the experience to get the executive roles because of bias, all these types of things that come into play. So it's not saying no, we don't want to, uh, you know, have white execs is about saying, Actually, we know that there's lots of things that are at play that will mean that there's a barrier for people access from these communities, accessing that level of experience and then therefore accessing those jobs. So, yeah, that's, uh That's really great. Thank you. You've got really a wealth experience. Um, and you know, insight. And I think it's always really a pleasure to speak to you. Uh, understand that. You know, the nuances is this is very complex. Many, many layers, um, that can be dissected down. But it's a great to see you as a leader in this field in the r e o h and and the NHS as well. Thank you very much. I really appreciate that. And thank you for having me. You know where I am more than happy to come and work with me all and support you all in your journeys for sure. Thank you very much, Nicole. Everybody has partitions. Have any questions feel free to either email them to myself, and I can direct them to Nichole, place them into the group chat. Um, but thank you, Nicole, for that wonderful presentation. Thank you, Karen. Thank you for having me take care, everyone. Can you take care? Bye bye.