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So they're gonna, they're gonna introduce you now and then I'll, I'll let you know when to start. OK. All right, we are live. So apologies everyone for the technical difficulties, but we'll be trying our best to coordinate between two different platforms at this time because unfortunately, um our next speaker is not available to attend to us on med all directly. So we'll be coordinating between Zoom and medal for the session. Um Can, can I just confirm with um the attendees that we are that you are able to see the screen and um to hear and see us? All right, as well as the next speaker. Uh Yes, I can. OK, perfect. All right. Um So let's so Hansa if you get on with your introduction and um Professor Libani, if we count you down for um Lucy. OK. Welcome guys. Welcome back. I hope uh you had a good break. Um So up next, we had uh Miss uh Lucy very. Um she has 20 years of leadership experience in the NHS. Currently, she's a uh group director for learning and organizational development at NHS Humber Health Partnership. She's passionate about developing people and organizations the best that they can become. She has a professional background in organizational and business psychology disciplines and she builds on this in all her practices as a coach leader and people's development expert. She also has over 10 years of working experience as a senior organizational development expert and as a qualified profen a professional and personal coach. She happily works with a wide range of clients from executive leaders through clinical and nonclinical frontline staff. So it's my pleasure to introduce Missus Lucy. Very. Ok. Lucy, thank you for starting. Thank you. I'm gonna use my outside voice and apologies for tech technicalities. II am sat um at infirmary. So maybe the NHS firewalls are, are preventing me. So goodness, goodness knows. Um So my talk today, um I, I'm gonna rely on um on you ma mood if there's any questions or things that come up in the chat because I can't do two screens at the same time if that would be ok. Ok. Um So just let me know if there's any problems and you need me to stop or, or do anything different. So, um really kind of um my presentation um comes from very much um me being a coach and using coach daily in my, my, my business practice, but also when I'm working with people and I want to talk about that very in context of mentoring. It's something that I'm really passionate about. Um So it's always a delight to to help um, um Mr La out, um, with this, it's something that, um, ii really want, you know, everyone to be doing doesn't matter who you are or, or what you apologies. Um Proba could you just unmute, um, unmute yourself at the moment? Um We've accidentally muted you. We can't hear her at the moment. So if you unmute yourself quickly pro bar if you go back to the, um, to the medal, if you just unmute yourself um quickly go back to the med all tab. Yeah, and then just unmute yourself. Ok. Ok. We're back, we're back. Yeah, and then start sharing again. Yes. Yes, please. And if you just ask her to go wind back five minutes, if that's all right. So you can start again. Ok. Thanks. I've managed to see you now. So um yeah, can you hear me now? I we can I can hear you. Oh, I can hear my Yeah. Where are you on middle or are you on? Uh Yeah. Carry on. Ok. No, that's great. Carry on. Carry on please. Yeah. So what I was, yeah, so I can now hear myself. So it feels like I've joined the event, come out of it. Otherwise it's gonna be um distracting for myself. Oh, there we go. Right. We'll start again. Ok. So um I'm just going to make sure that my is my screen shared or not. Yes, it is. Yes, great. So um I was talking about mentoring definitions. And one of the things I wanted to do to be really clear about with mentoring, it's not always a senior person um as in position and job role, who's mentoring, often you need mentoring, maybe if you're needing a new skill, um you know, you could be a very senior surgeon as an example, but um doing team development or working as a leader might be new to you. And I suppose when you're looking at mentorship, it's not just picking somebody who is in your field, it's finding a mentor who's going to give you what you need for, for what you have going on at the moment. So, um and, and as we know, um you know, working as a, as a surgeon or as a specialist, um it isn't always easy just to get on with the job. It's fine to do the surgery, but actually sometimes the team and the MDT around you, the most disciplinary team around you and the people we work with the systems that we're in are, are even our own kind of, you know, the the world that is going on around us can have an impact. So mentoring isn't just about skills and capability. It's also about behaviors, your personal um wellbeing as well. I say I just is a really, really good person to, to follow and to explore if you interested in coaching and mentoring. And it's really about kind of that mentoring able you know, you are able as a mentor to allow that mentee to share their own experience. Um I really kind of endeavor to get them thinking. So being a mentor is not just about giving them everything that you've ever done from your career um onwards and maybe even going back to um you know, when you're at primary school, it is about listening and understanding what that person in front of you need. And equally, if you are the mentee, it's really important that you go into a mental relationship. Um expecting to do quite a lot of the work that they're there as a resource and to get you thinking, they're not necessarily going to hand things to you um really, really easily. So if you're a mentee, you, you got to be prepared to work hard. If you're a mentor, you, you want to make your mentees work hard rather than just giving them all the, the advice. So why is mentorship? Um really, really helpful? And you know what I mean? I've had this happen to me and I've got two or three people who I remain in touch with and it really does help to have someone invested in your career. And these mentors are different to me. They do different things for me. Um I think equally, um I've mentored people and I really enjoy the fact that I really get something out of it. It's a two way thing and often if you're mentoring somebody outside of your kind of work area. Um But you're maybe, you know, doing it for a particular skill, you start to learn things and it also helps to challenge you in those ways. Um Personal connections are always brilliant and I think you can't, you know, you can't have too many of those. And I think mentoring as well is an opportunity to really level the playing field. And so when we're mentoring, making sure that we're offering it to everybody, just not certain people that we would choose. And I think particularly if you're a mentor, you, you might hear about something or you might understand something as a number if you've got somebody in front of you. And I think if you've got, you know, um you know, if you're somebody you're training, you can actually hear the reality of what's going on, on, on the, on in the world rather than what you, what you think or maybe something you remembered from, from 15 or 20 years ago, I think for me, um one of my um my passions and, you know, I'm lucky that it's also part of my job is around making sure that equality, diversity and most of all inclusion is happening. I'm very interested in how we make an equitable learning environment for everybody. Um And, and, and I think that mentoring is a really big opportunity for us to do that. And that's something we're certainly thinking about within our within our hospitals um to actually learn from different cultures, different ethnicities, different communities because as a white woman, I can't know what it's like. Um you know, to be, you know, a South Asian man. But what I can is understand and be in a, in a, in a relationship that actually allows me to understand that lived experience in a way that I wouldn't because it's not something that I've, I've understood. Um And I think as well, like you say, you don't know how other people live. So it allows you to become sensitized to lots of different issues that might not normally normally occur to you. And, you know, being a woman in the NHS, sometimes that's been brilliant. Other times, I have experienced sexism in a way that a man never would. So actually, if you're a man mentoring a woman, it allows you to see it from, from, from their perspectives and it may be motivate you and it might help you influence your practice outside that, that mentoring relationship. And I think it's really important if you are a mentor to understand that potentially you have some power in that relationship. And it is really important that you have that equity mindset. So, you know, we all come into different relationships with different levels of privilege. And what I mean by privilege is the fact that there are things that as a white woman, I can walk through the center of h and not experience racism. And that's because I'm white. And there are other things that have happened in my life that means I have less privilege. And I think mentoring is a really good opportunity to explore where people are starting from. And, and how do we make sure that we start to make a first of all the relationship equitable us in, you know, we're really kind of breaking down those barriers. And then secondly, using that mentoring relationship to help maybe navigate the systems where that kind of privilege and offer that ship and stand with them and support people to have a voice in what they need to have a voice in. So I'm going to kind of focus a bit more on the mentors perspective and, and one of the things I want to do is use coaching as a framework for that. And this is my favorite thing in coaching. And I have to remember to do this all the time and I'm going to introduce you to a term which I would call the advice monster. So we all have an avi monster. So when somebody asks you something, what your brain does is it wants to go, oh, I've done this before. I'm going to give them some advice. And if they follow that advice, all will be right with the world. But actually that is ok for very simple information. So if somebody asks me where the toilet is, I'm not going to go. Where, where do you think the toilet could possibly be? Let's explore that I am going to tell them where the toilet is. But actually, for more complex issues, if we go straight into using our advice monster and giving advice, what we're doing is imposing our assumptions and beliefs on the situation rather than an opening up and allowing that mentee to explore what might be and what might be relevant to them. So this is the coaching spectrum and what I'm gonna do is I'm just gonna kind of go through it and you'll see at either end as directive and non directive and really what I'm looking to ask you to do if you're mentoring and, or even, you know, just in your general conversations is to really get into looking to pull things out of people rather than, than pushing things because at the directive, even this is what I'm doing today. So I'm being very directive, I am training today and that's ok because I've been asked to come here and impart my expertise within that and that's relevant for things. And absolutely, it, it has a place, the giving advice. So the advice monster and I do think that mentoring traditionally thinks that this is where, where it should be. But I'm going to invite you to get curious about how you might mentor, how you might want to make a request of a mentor. And actually it's ok to give advice and offer guidance for things that are very specific and make suggestions. But actually, I would like you to kind of get into the coaching spectrum from this point onwards. So being able to give feedback is a really great thing. And, and really getting into coaching now is asking questions that raise awareness. So I don't know about you, but there's nothing like a really, really timed question to stop me in my tracks. I love a question because I go at 12 Brazil miles an hour um all the time and I love it when somebody slows me down with a really helpful, helpful question that might raise my awareness on something that I just wouldn't have noticed before. It's really great when you're a conversation and it is really respectful if you clarify understanding with somebody. Um It, it shows that you're really listening. So these skills are really, really helpful, paraphrasing. So, um I love to use metaphors. Um And so, you know, you might say it sounds like you're between a rock and a hard place instead of saying that sounds very difficult for you. And paraphrasing is taking what that person said to you and basically rewording it into something and, and using that as an opportunity to, to, to, to show that back to that individual um summarizing again, can be really helpful. Um If someone's coaching or mentoring me, I find this really helpful because again, you know, if I like my brain is going very quickly just to have somebody listen to me and go, you said this, this, this and this um often that's all I need to help me explore and solve the problem just by having someone kind of open, open that um that knowledge back to me and using those reflecting tools, which is really kind of taking things like clarifying, understanding, paraphrasing and summa raising and reflecting those back and just giving those back to an individual. And what you'll notice if you listen to somebody, often people ask themselves questions and when I'm in a coaching or a mentoring conversation, and I always get permission to write notes because my memory isn't as good as it used to be. But often I'll try and write down pretty much verbatim what that person says, particularly if they ask a question and then I'll ask them that question themselves. I'll get them to answer their own question because, you know, mentoring and coaching mindset means that you firmly believe that everybody has everything they need inside them. And you're not just there to give them the advice and the answer, you're using this as an opportunity to help them explore what they need. So these kind of um key skills really, really help, really, really help and are particularly helpful. I feel in this mentoring relationship. The other aspect is is listen to understand, don't listen to reply and I know it sounds quite basic, but I don't know about you. But um I think particularly when you can get into quite competitive environments, and I do think sometimes that is the case when we're in our professional settings, um trying to listen to understand rather than to give the best piece of advice that's going to change this people, person's life is a really important mindset to get into because what you're doing is kind of pushing yourself aside and just looking to listen to what that person in front of you is saying and giving them your focus. And then at the really, really nondirective end is just being quiet and just listening and just noticing what they're saying. Um And I think it's very easy in this day and age when people pause to feel like we need to jump in and we don't, my, my favorite technique in coaching and mentoring is just to be quiet. Um I find it difficult. Um Sometimes, especially because of my advice. Monster is going, hello, you've got the best piece of advice for this person. And, but actually what we're looking to do sometimes with that silence and just to kind of hear and witness what they're saying is just to give somebody that, that space because their brain is just kind of working that through. So I was just really curious and, you know, I'll ask you ask you this question. I just want you to reflect internally when you're working with others or maybe you're, you know, either in a mentoring or maybe a coaching or a teaching conversation. Where do you spend most of your time? And where on this spectrum might it be useful for you to, to think about um testing out and trying what, what might get you a benefit? And the other question I like to ask you is are you getting the results that you want with your current way that you interact to mentor people? Because if you're not, and there's a phrase which is if you keep doing what you've always done, you will always get what you've always got. And actually using the coaching spectrum just to kind of test things out and maybe move up and down. It is a really useful way to maybe think about working on a relationship. This works in all sorts of different scenarios, the listening bit and the summarizing and the reflecting back, it will be a game changer in your conversations if you start doing this because A it's really respectful and B people will really appreciate that you're listening to them, you're noticing, you're being curious and actually you're having a helpful conversation with them. So by all means, stay at the end. Um You do have to do that sometimes. Um but actually do test some of the things out. So with that, I'm going to kind of talk about coaching and why I feel like it sits so so importantly and really is what what you should be doing when you're mentoring. Basically coaching very much has the mindset that you're there to facilitate that other person's learning development and performance. Um It's about self, self, you know, self awareness and also um humans, we really don't like uncertainty. So a good coaching conversation with somebody can really help them identify choices and you know, what, sometimes choices or those actions that you can take are really small, but it does just allow to explore what's in your control, what is not, what is outside of your control. And, and really that kind of whole aim of coaching is to think about, where am I now? Where do I need to be and how might I close that gap between what I've got the potential to do and the performance that I want to want to show again within an organization. This is the association for coaching, who trained, who trained me this organization, you know, it, it can be used to improve business effectiveness. And if you think about an individual who's being coached or mentored, if that has a very positive effect and they work with, you know, 10 people around them and they now have improved relationships and and improved effectiveness. You can kind of see this kind of shadow effect that ripples out if we, if we start to get this mentoring and coaching relationships, right? So I think coaching and mentoring can sometimes get confused, particularly cos we would call a football coach, a coach obviously and they are very much about skills. But I don't know, you know, if you're familiar with the world of English football, I'm not particularly, but what I would notice is it seems to be the coaches who focus on the people who seem to be the most successful in terms of how, how they work, of course, they need footballers with talent and skill in order to be able to, to win the matches. But actually, it's the team environment and how they work with their people. That seems to be the most impactful for success. But just to kind of clarify, coaching is a 1 to 1 relationship in which an individual is supported by somebody experience and specifically trained in coaching. And it, it allows them to learn, unlock their potential and achieve personal goals. Coaching is always goal orientated. It's not just a mo a mo shop. Um Mentoring is usually when you're having someone with more experience and they're willing to share that knowledge with somebody who's less experienced and it is a relationship of trust. Um But as I say, you would, you would expect to see that mentor, using those coaching skills around questioning, summarizing and and really kind of understanding what the goals are of that, of that menting. So I'm, I'm a bit of a Star Wars fan and um I always kind of think about different styles. So Yoda was very much at the coaching end of things. And I mean, Darth Vader a bit, a bit of a joke if you've not seen it, you know, quite a directive style of leadership and management. And so we definitely be much more at the end of things and it's just to get you to reflect on, it's fine to do some. We do need to be command and control sometimes and we do need to be in those moments. But can we be a little bit more Yoda, can we ask questions? Can we get people to explore what is possible for them rather than letting our advice monster or our, our need to direct things take, take over. So some of the poor skills you'll need as a, as a mentor. And also if you're listening as, as a potential mentee, make sure your coach or your mentor. Does this, make sure you contract about what you need and it can be very formal. So if you're in an educational supervision relationship, it's always useful to, to be more formal because there may well be standards that need to be signed off. But if you're more of a professional development and, and this contracting, it very much around. Um um you know, literally how often you'll meet, um how long you'll meet for who, who arranges it, who takes responsibility for different things where you'll meet. And I think it's also really important to talk about um how the relationship might end um because otherwise, you know, things can go on and on and you neither coachee or, or coach or mentee or a mentor might want that. So it is really important to think about. What do I want to get out of this? And if you're contracting with that mentee, make sure you're having that, that conversation. I'm pitching the coaching mind and skill set always. And it is really important that within a mentor, um you're able to both support but also challenge. I think there's nothing like the ability to be curious and notice when somebody's maybe in a pattern of behavior and just gently explore that maybe something is, is a barrier, but you have to do that through creating trust in psychological safety, making sure you're checking understanding so that you actually um you need permission, um you know, for anything. Um I'm making sure if you are very senior and you're, you're mentoring somebody much more junior than you that you do give that permission for them to, to be open and honest. So they don't feel they have to, you know, put, put a face on when they're in that relationship with you. And, and really, like I said, you know, if we could put the advice monster, maybe just away in a little box while you're in a mentoring um situation, it can be really, really helpful. Of course, if someone's directly asking for your expertise, I'm not saying you, you, you don't give it, but just, just maybe give it in context of what that individual's goal is and, and kind of keep it, keep it context within that. So I suppose I'm always pushing for being a mentor with a coaching mindset because as a mentor, you come with this toolkit of your knowledge, which is of course useful for that for that mentee. But with the coaching mindset means that you really put away your assumption of what the mentee wants and just take the time to understand what they want. And the quickest way to ask that is what is your goal? How will this relationship help you even in the moment when you're in a conversation, it's just simple questions. Like we've got an hour today, where would you like to be by the end of this hour? What would be the most helpful thing to talk about today? Very, very simple techniques rather than assuming, you know what they want because of your experience, the mentor, you know, you need to share your experience in service of the mentees goals and aspirations. You don't just want these sessions to be new, relaying stories from your varied career. And when you were at medical school or this time, when I did this bit of surgery, it has to be in service of those goals. And like I say, use those coaching methods along your more traditional training advice, you know, um giving your skills over, you know, and and having those more active, active moments. So I'm my mood. I'm just thinking about timing. Where, where am I at? With my, with my timing because I'm running a little bit out. Ok. Just I'll, I'll check for you, I'll check for you. Uh Yeah. Um So in terms of the timing, um we are doing very well. So um this ses the first session was meant to end at 1115. So um we do have 10 minutes and then after that, we do have another 15 minute break until the practical application of mentorship um presentation. So uh this, this practical applications was supposed to start at, at half 11. OK. Yes. Yeah, that's OK. So that's OK. No, no, that's fine. Uh We, we, we're all coping well with the technical difficulty. So if you want to go over any other points and then we can go for a break. Yeah. Is that OK? Maybe I think it was starting to work before so we can maybe have a little test out. So if I, if I kind of give an introduction to this bit and then we'll have a break and then we can, we can do, I've got them some more practical stuff for people to work through um af after this section. So thank, thank you. Sorry for that. I just wanted to, to check because I can't see you. OK. OK. So the practical applications um this um was really my request to, if you're going to be mentored uh as a mentee. And one of the things that I noticed, particularly in, in my role, um and I have to deal with a lot of people who are looking to develop um both technical skills, you know, wanting to access um qualifications is that quite a number of them come with an expectation that it's going to solve all their problems. And I really love something which is um called the Pareto principle. I don't know if anyone's heard of this. It was by Ernesto Perito who was an economist. Way, way, way back in the, in, in, you know, in the, in the, in history. And he came up with the 8020 rule and I really feel that in mental relationships or even when you're training or when you're in that kind of continuing professional development space, it absolutely has to be 80% you and it has to be 20% of either the course or the training or maybe the individuals that and mentors and, and, and kind of senior leaders who are working with you because you have to be able to take responsibility for yourself and you can't kind of go into these things, expecting people to know what you need. You have to put some time into, to think about that. Um and, and as mentors as well, and it's very easy to get into rescue mode um where you want to fix things for people. And so I suppose it really is a request to be really clear about your goals, think about how you might make that happen. Because in order to get the best out of a mental relationship, you need to have some clear requests so that they can respond to those. And as mentors, you need to have the kind of toolkit to be able to ask those questions and open mentees out if they maybe haven't had the opportunity to do that. So really, you know, nobody wants to be rescued, but actually, it is quite nice to be in that space sometimes where someone just sorts it out for you. But most of the time we do want that kind of 8820 rule with you kind of as mentees putting in 80% of the work with that mentor, providing that 20% of support, guidance and, and beautiful high quality questions for you. So I'm gonna go through some of these sections. So what I'm going to do is in this section, I'm going to go through goal setting. I'm going to go through listening skills and I'm going to talk about high quality questions, then we'll have a break and then we'll do the self directed learning model, which I think be really, really helpful. Um And we can kind of get into thinking about coaching, scripts, coaching questions as well. So, and what I'll do is I'll be able to kind of you can offer you the chance to kind of answer the questions as we, as we go through the through the session. So one of the things that is really, really important in mentoring and coaching is absolutely having the ability to set goals. And that's as an individual yourself, but also as a mentor, being able to support people to set goals. And I really love an approach which is called solution focused thinking. Um And there's a company called Go Make a Difference. And they did a massive piece of research where they just interviewed people who had been really, really successful in life. Um And then they started with three people and they had very measurable things that they had achieved and they just started to talk to them about how did you make a difference? What did that look like? And then they got those three people to recommend another three people and they did kind of 10,000 hours of, of, of, of interviews. And one of the things they emerged is there isn't just type one type of goal. Um You've probably all heard of smart. It's um it's a very, very um almost overused term for how you would set a goal. Um But one of the things I discovered is that there were other three types of goals that tended to emerge. One was umbrella, one was qualitative and one was visioning. So I'm going to kind of talk about those. Um in a little bit more detail now. So smart, it's um it's an, it's an oldie, but a gold goldie. Um and these are the definitions of, of a smart goal and developing smart goals are really helpful when you have something very specific that you need to do. Um smart goals don't work when you've got this and then that and then this and then that you need to, if you're making a smart goal, it has to be about 11 thing in particular, you may well have a list of smart goals you want to work through. But smart goals, so specifically, what is it that you will do? So what is it that you are trying to achieve? How much and how often, so how will you know when you, when you've got that the A is achievable and so how confident are you, are you that you can do that? Um Often it's quite useful to use a scale when you're doing that. So, on a scale of 1 to 10, how achievable does this feel right now? Um My recommendation is if you look at your goal and you rate that as a five or less, you probably need to go back and look at your goal because if you're not feeling it's achievable, then actually, um you know what, what's the point when you need to go and reframe it? So it becomes achievable? Is it important? Is it relevant? Do you wanna do it because, you know, I don't know about you. But sometimes there are goals that I have to do because I've been told to do them as part of work. And sometimes there are goals that I just really want to do. And I'm excited about them. Again, it's useful if you're a mentor to get the person to do a scale on this. So on a scale of one to tell, you know, 10, how, how relevant is this to you? How much do you want to, how strong is your reason? Why those sorts of questions? And again, you know, it's about, is this a towards goal? So am I going towards it? I'm really excited or is it the goal in order for me to avoid a really bad consequence? I don't lose your job or you know, do all of those different things and the really most important thing with a smart goal that it has to be time based. So when will you do it? Um And I don't just mean like, so if you say um I'm going to do it um by winter, by the end of winter. Um Do you mean the first of March? Do you mean you know the 28th 29th, if it's a leap year of February, be specific, have a day, you know, I'm gonna do this in six months time. OK. Doke, I'm gonna do this in 12 months time. So we're gonna be meeting on the seventh of, of December 2025 then. So is that what you mean? So it's about getting really specific people will kind of love you and hate you for, for doing this if you're a mentor because um and if people can't give you a time, it's probably telling you you need to go back and reframe the goal, particularly in terms of achievability and particularly in terms of whether they actually really want to do it. So how relevant, how relevant is it? So that that's smart goals, so umbrella our goals are for much larger complex goals. Um So um I've done a very complex goal here. Um I want to be the best cardiothoracic surgeon in the world. There's nothing like aiming, aiming big. Um But obviously, if I try to make you make that into a smart goal, I think it would be incredibly difficult for you to do that. So the idea of an umbrella is exactly that. So this top layer is your umbrella. So this is your umbrella goal. So if I'm gonna be the best cardiac friend in the world, I need to have the right mindset. I don't know what's going on with my font here. It's gone, gone. Very strange, but, but never mind, we'll, we'll, we'll work with it. Um But if I have the right mindset that probably isn't going to make me the best cardio arthropathic surgeon in the world. So I'm probably gonna have to do something else and, and, and really the coaching technique here is a very simple one, which is what else? So I'm gonna need good leadership skills. So if I have the right mindset and leadership skills, will I be the best cardiothoracic in the surgeon in the world? No. So what else I need to work at the best hospital? Um You know, so I need to be in a hospital that's gonna support me. So if I have all of these three things, will I will it help me achieve my goal? No. Right. So what else I need to have great training. So I need to have that skill set and again, you can kind of just see and I also have to have the best mentor and really when you're working with somebody and they've got a very big goal and you're helping them chunk it down into the different folks of this umbrella. It's, it's making sure that of, of those, if you do all of those five things, will you achieve your goal? So if you have the right mindset, the right leadership skills, you're in the best hospital in the world, you've got the right training. So you can get the skills and you'll have the best mentor, will you will this allow you to achieve your goal. And really, that's what you're doing with an umbrella goal. You're probably looking between three and seven spokes of the umbrella and then what you've done then is you've allowed somebody to really break down what it's going to take. And this can be really helpful in a mentor and relationship. It may be that you choose to chunk them down over the course of the relationship and work through them. One of the things that's really helpful to do at this point is get people to rate um the priority. So actually, if you were to say, which was the most important, which would you say was number one, number two and literally get people to put numbers down on this. Um Really helpful, you can either use it. Um If you're doing on Zoom or teams, you can use mind mapping software. Um If I've got somebody in front of me, I would draw this out for them as they were talking to me um and get them to actually physically rate these on the, on, on the paper. What's lovely about umbrella goals is particularly if something's very overwhelming, it does allow it to break it down into these manageable chunks. So for instance, if I've decided the right mindset is my priority goal, you would then say, right, and you would use the same technique as you've used for the larger umbrella goal, you would say, right, if you're going to have the right mindset, what are you going to need? And it's going to be like, well, I need to make sure that I'm eating well Um I've got um you know, I've got everything that I need. I'm feeling confident I know how to receive give and receive feedback. So what you would do is you would use the same technique of what other things that you need in order to have the right mindset and you can do this um as low down as you need to. Um And again, each of these may well have lots of different sub goals. Sometimes. What you find though is that one might be really simple. So the best mentor is probably not a load of um kind of extra umbrella goals that you need to think about. You can probably just get a list and it would move you straight into that smart goal or literally just action territory. So this is just a really, really helpful way of breaking those larger complex goals down. I use this all the time. This is, this is pretty much a a daily, if not, you know, weekly, if not daily activity for me in terms of how do I break down what it is that I need to do. I think it's also really good. If you're a leader, this is a great way to communicate. This is what we're trying to achieve and then get the team to work with you in order to be able to break it down. And then equally if you're the member of the team who's responsible for a particular sub goal. You can see how you fit into that to that wider goal. So it works really brilliantly on a 1 to 1 basis. But it's also really good. If you're in a clinical setting, you're working with a multidisciplinary team and you know, um as, as the, as a surgeon, as a doctor and you are often seen as that leader either on that day or, or as part of that department. Again, this is, this is one of this has been a game changer for me over over the years. And I find it really helpful in, in every context that I work in. So qualitative of goals. Has anyone ever had that situation where you're like, oh, I hate that meeting. Uh I don't feel confident walking into that situation or I really don't like the way my relationship is with that person. I would like to improve it. So qualitative goals are really um a useful way to explore that and it starts to help you quantify. And so this is like I say, it's for confidence, it's your like, I would like to have more personal impact. I would like to think about how I manage a relationship. I would like to improve, you know, the morale of my team, all of those different things that is where you would use a qualitative goal. And, and again, you'll see a pattern in this, we're asking the individual um or you might ask the team, what, what they'd like to improve. And by when, so we're kind of using some of the smart, smart techniques and then what you do is you ask them to rate where they'd like to be. So if you take the example of being more confident in a meeting, um you might get them to say, right, think about that meeting and you know, um where are you now and, and where would you like to be? Um and, and, and by when so it may well be that they're like a two now in terms of their confidence and I think it would be unrealistic to expect that in the next meeting, they're going to be at a 10. So you could even have a conversation and say, um you know, by the next meeting, I want to be at a five and then the next meeting after that, I want to get to a seven and it's ok if people don't want to be at 10, you're basically working with them about how it is that they want to feel in that meeting. And so once you've got them to define what that, that 10 or that nine or that seven looks like and get them to really go into it and, and get them to be specific, you know, what do they see here, you know, feel when they're being confident, what does that look and feel like and get them to be specific about how they define that? Rating because really what you're doing with them, with AQ goal, this is something that can't really be measured. You're trying to create their version of a measure, they're trying to get them to describe exactly what it is they mean. And, and the way you do that is, you know, people often say I want to communicate better and, and, and what we do is we sometimes leave that at face value. But as mentors, um what I'm expecting you to do is go tell me what you mean by communication. What does that look like? What, what is communication to you? So you're just kind of just delving just below the waterline of that, that kind of iceberg and really getting into it. And then in order to kind of get them moving into defining it a bit further, can they remember a time when they did it at that level, the same or similar? If they can't do that? You might say, well, if not, can you think of a role model? Um it might be somebody they work with, it could even be fictional, it could be a movie character or someone from a book, anything like that and really get them to describe what their top rating would look like as this forms their goal. So if you follow this process, basically, you're creating something that, which is not usually um measurable into something that is really, really measurable. So that's qualitative. So we've got smart, we've got umbrella um and qualitative. So we've kind of got um three types of gold that are really kind of working um for, I suppose, quite practical things that we might want to work on. The fourth goal that go make a difference discovered was visioning. Um And this is where you're really kind of going big. Um And this is really kind of um so if you imagine that we're in a time machine and, you know, I've got a massive, um I've got a massive goal. So one of my goals at work at the moment is I've got to roll out leadership development for the whole of our group which covers five hospitals and community services. This is a big goal and sometimes it feels like I'm looking into a big black hole of goodness me, how am I going to ever remember how to do all these things? But a really useful way when you've got something completely massive and, you know, you can't even think to do an umbrella go with it is to actually think right in a year's time, where do I want to be and actually pretend that you're getting in a time machine and you're traveling forward in time and actually use your imagination. I'm sure you do it all the time. I mean, I don't know about you, but, you know, I'm often thinking about what I'm having fatigue tonight. I'm using my imagination and you might be thinking about where you're traveling next or how will I get to work? How will I, how will I do this, this thing? How will I have that conversation? And we're actually really, really good at it as it, as um as humans. So, actually, it's just taking that skill set that we all naturally have and actually putting it into something more, more prospective. This is a really nice thing to do um As mentors if you have a mentee who really doesn't know um what it is that they would like from the relationship or are struggling to define that because it's a nice space for you to be. And you could say, you know, where do you want to, you know, if you, if we sat here in, in a year's time having a cup of tea or a cup of coffee together and where might we like, where, where would you like to be? And it just allows a little bit a different part of their brain to kind of kick in and kind of put all the practical planning things aside and have a moment where you can just think about what it is that you would want. So we do use our imagination about, you know, where we want to go on holiday or what we want to do with our lives. And I'm sure, you know, I'm going to be, you know, a famous singer one day, all of those, all of those things and, and as a mentor, what you're trying to do is listen and you would write down and capture and you would use those coaching skills to summarize and, and reflect back what they're saying about their vision. And the other thing you can do is if you can get them to talk about it in the past tense, and if they've already achieved it, it can be really useful for getting somebody if they're very stuck into a helpful mindset. And because talking about the fact that you have achieved it and then saying, well, what did you do? Tell me what you did to achieve this goal? You can allow people to talk about things and then you start to formulate their plan with them. So if you've got somebody that's really, really stuck a visioning conversation about what that looks like can be really, really helpful and it can really take the pressure off of that relationship. And then if you remember what I've said before, if you've got a vision, um you can then potentially use an umbrella technique to break that down. And then once you've got your sub goals, you can start to use your smart techniques or your qualitative goal setting techniques to get some more specificity in there for them as well. OK. Lucy, I think this is a fan. Yeah, it's fantastic time to take a break. You need a break as well as the, you need a break as well as the roo. So thank you very much so far for going through this. I'm gonna stop sharing. Uh and I'll hand over to Leana to uh take the next bit forward. All right, thank you. So, we are just going to go for our break now. Um We'll reconvene um at 1145 since we did have some, we did start a bit later due to technical difficulties and that way it should be, the new um run time should be until just bear with me one moment while I get the schedule up. So we will have until 1245 for the next session. And after that, we will have a 15 minute short Q and A session right before lunch. And as always, if anyone has any questions just to pop them into the chat and we can raise that at the Q and A session at the end of um Lucy's next talk. All right. So I will leave the live running. Uh so far the broadcast running over the next 15 minutes. So that way people can still have access to the stage just in case we have any more technical difficulties. All right, we will see you in 15 minutes then. So, uh um Lucy, we have a 15 minute break. Uh Are you gonna try and see if we can get you on middle? Yeah. And II need to come out in order to be able to, to do that. So I'll, if I can't get back in, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll, I'll come and I'll, I'll see if I can come and get on now. Yeah. Ok. Uh, can, can you hear me? Yeah, we can hear you. Uh, let me just, uh, the broad for the time being. So, while we sort this out. Yes, please.