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Still loading. Yeah. All right, we are live and I'm going to hand over to Hansa and Lucy again. All right, welcome back guys. I hope you had a good comfort break. Uh We're, we're gonna get into the next um side of things. So Lucy will be now covering the practical applications of mentorship. So Lucy, the floor is yours. Thank you. It's so glad to be able to join you officially on this platform rather than, than via Zoom. Um And I will be able to, I've been looking through the chat through the break. So um we will get on to some of those questions and they're, they're, they're really, really relevant around um around everything that's going on. Um So I'll make sure that I II tackle those. So before the break, I just kind of talk and begin um to talk about, you know, the type of goals that you might experience or you might want to think about both as a mentor and a mentee. Um What I did want to talk about kind of going forward, like I say, with those more practical things. So, regardless of the situation, one of the things that you can get really, really good at is asking high quality questions and you might ask a question. Uh, what, what do you mean by that? And what, what's really interesting about, um, the human brain is, it tends to, um, it tends to think in a, in a, in kind of four different ways, we tend to make statements about ourselves, you know? Oh, I'm not very good at this or? Oh, I'm brilliant at this. Um The other thing we do is we try and remember things. So we might think about a time when something happened and that might be a helpful memory. It might be a hindering memory. We often will think about a future. So that might be helpful or it will be brilliant when or it might be a a hindering future. The other thing our brains tend to do is ask questions and questions are amazing because if you are in a really kind of, you know, having a difficult, you know, your frame of mind, you're having lots of difficult or hindering thoughts, which is completely normal, it's absolutely normal to do that. Um A really, really good question can just get your brain ticking over and, and, and into a more helpful frame of mind and, you know, reflecting that, you know, given the situation that you guys have got going on in Gaza, it we as a mentee and a mentor, you know, we, we've got to kind of I suppose sometimes, um, asking the right question might just be about supporting somebody where they are now and meeting them where they are now. It isn't always about these grand goals. It could just be about feeling better today or feeling better tonight. Um, and one of the best ways to do that and get the brain in a helpful, helpful mind is, is with a question. So a really, really high quality question always starts with a how, what or who um you're probably wondering why I haven't put why in there. Um If you start a question with a why, what it ends up getting into unless you're talking about someone's motivation or what's your reason? Why? If I say, why did you do that? It immediately puts you in a very defensive mode. So if you say, why did you approach that situation in that way? Immediately my brain starts to think about all the justifications and why I did it that way. If you just were, for instance to ask me what happened, I would just tell you what happened. It, it gets things factual and it stops my brain going off into a memory or a hindering thought or worrying that um I've done something wrong. So when you're in a mentoring relationship, really try and avoid the use of why when you're exploring things with people, unless you're kind of focusing on their motivations and, and their, their, their core motivation or their reason why. And so there are two types of questions that are really, really helpful. Um And these are helpful in whatever setting that you, that you have at all. And it's questions that open the mind so you can ask, you know, um, what, what are you gonna have for tea tonight? And what are you gonna have for your dinner? Um, you know, all of those things or what am I going to do tomorrow? But actually what that does is that makes the brain have to try and think of something immediately and it doesn't open it up. One of the really great ways of doing it is adding some simple words in which is possibly could and would. So if I say, what could you possibly do tomorrow? Um, suddenly your brain goes, oh, what, what, what might I do rather than you going? 000, I'm not sure. I'm not sure I need to give an answer now. So what these words do, it gives the brain, I would say some, some room to breathe some permissions to explore lots of different, different things. And these are great questions if someone's stuck. So, you know, you know, how, you know, and, and this could be about a, a grand idea, you know, how could I possibly be the best surgeon in the world right through to how might I get through to the end of the day? You know, feeling calm, feeling safe. It can be really, really different, different ends of the spectrum. Um Are these just really, really good? So when you've got a question, just really kind of put a, what could possibly, you could, might, you know, what might we do is a really, really great way of, of, of simplifying a question. So, um so yeah, so that is kind of questions to really open the mind what we also then need to do. It's great to come up with lots of ideas or, you know, explore lots of different, different possibilities. But we do also need to focus the mind in order to get into action or to understand what our, what our needs are. Um And questions that focus the mind will be. So by when will you do that? So you're getting the using by when will um what will you do? Um So when will you phone up to arrange the meeting you were described or you know, what, what is the one thing that you know, you're gonna do next? So you're really kind of getting people moving from that kind of big thing. And I kind of imagine it as um as a, as a funnel. So when you're doing the possibility thinking you're at the top end of the funnel, and then when you're doing the questions that focus the mind, what you're doing is you're kind of harvesting the things that are gonna help either make a difference for that individual um in a, in a general term or will make a difference on, on that particular, on that particular day. So just kind of have a reflect on the type of questions you ask. Um, count up maybe how many times you, you said why, um we do it a lot when we investigate stuff, you know, why did you do that? And it's a really unhelpful term because although we do need to kind of find out ii in first blame. And um so getting really good at the how, what and who um is, is really, really, really helpful. I also wanted to share with you one of the most famous um models for having a conversation and this is where you would use these high quality questions. And um this is a really, really simple um conversation and I use this all the time and what it's not is linear, but I am gonna go through it in, in, in order, but you can see that it's interchangeable. So when you're sitting down for a, for a conversation and you might have 1015 minutes with somebody or you might be sitting down for a more formal hour, hour and a half, ask people what they want to talk about. And one of the really useful things is, is to say, you know, you know, what, what, what we're gonna do today, what are we going to talk about? What might be helpful? Um What, what, what is the topic that, that you're bringing, you're bringing here today. Um We don't often do this enough and we kind of, um, I'm terrible for it. I have to remember to do it. It's quite an active thing. I have to remember to do. I just get a bit excited and I start having conversations about things, but actually, then I get to the end of it and I think I haven't achieved what I needed to do and I haven't talked about the things that were really important to me. So just using this model is a useful way just to check in, then of course, every mentoring or coaching conversation should be about. What is it that you want from the discussion? What is the goal? So if it's a more formal relationship, you might be picking up something you um a bigger goal, a bigger umbrella goal that you've been discussing. Or maybe if you know, um if that person's having, you know, some difficulties, it might be a more personal conversation. But again, I think um the types of questions you would ask there from a high quality point of view is, you know, um what, what you know, what would be helpful today um to do? Where would we like? Where would be helpful for you to be by the end of this conversation? Um What sort of space would you like this to be today? Do you want to just be able to talk openly or do you want to work on something specific? So time spent understanding the topic and the goal is never wasted. Um And as you move through your conversation with people and don't feel afraid to refer back to the goal, particularly if you feel that maybe someone was trying to give you a goal. But actually, as you speak about it, what's really going on for them or what they really want emerges for that from that, from that conversation. Um It's really important for people to talk about what's happening to them. Um There is a phrase that I really, really like when people are experiencing difficulties and obviously recognizing that that is a daily, a daily um occurrence for you guys out, out in Gaza is just to recognize it's a situation that's strange not you and you, you know, if things are difficult, you're having a perfectly normal reaction to something which is, you know, really, really awful. Um As part of, you know, I remember saying this a lot of people during the, during the pandemic that you have to remember that what you're feeling is completely normal and it's about how do you notice and be curious about those emotions. How do you explore with somebody, what the reality of this is going on and, you know, work based stuff. It might be that um somebody is just being impossible and difficult with you and being a blocker, it may be something going on in your personal world and that is the reality of it. And, and when we're coaching and mentoring, we have to see that person in the round. We're not seeing them as that individual who is just um training to be a doctor or a psychiatrist or a surgeon or, you know, any of any of these things or a nurse or all of all of these different, different professions. What, what I would guard against though is spending all of the time in reality. Because if this is a coaching or a mentoring conversation, you are looking to support that person to move, move forward and help them explore when you're in the reality section. That is when if you remember the coaching spectrum, this is where your reflecting skills are going to be used for your summarizing skills, um your listening skills. Um And, and this is a good place to practice as well. So people will just like people like to talk about themselves, let them do it and practice your skills. And um one of my trainers, um coaching trainers um said you need to be a rock with ears and I really like that. And I use that in my mind sometimes when my vice monsters twittering in my ears, you need to tell them how to do this. I just say no, stop it. You need to be a rock with ears right now. Um And really kind of notice. Listen. Um and, and ways of kind of exploring that is, you know, I'm just really curious about, about what you said there and that particular word notice people's language. It's really helpful because people tell you what you need to know about them in the way that they speak it, write notes down. One of my favorite techniques for reflecting back is to write things down that people have said and literally say it to them really cleanly. So you give it in them, you giving it back in, in their words. And that when someone does that for me, a it can be quite profound because I'm like flipping it, this person's really heard me. Um But also it just allows somebody else to get them to hear what they've said and start to regulate it, particularly if something's very, very emotive. Um So the reality bit is a really helpful bit. Um But it is there to really kind of establish what's happening now and to kind of again explore with those kind of questions around. Um the things of different things that are going in, you know, going on in the world and how this mentoring or coaching might might work, then you might want to move into options. Um Like I say, it's not linear, you might be moving around this, but the options is where the questions that open your mind would be really helpful. So if you remember those, you know, thinking about what we've discussed and thinking about the goal. Um, you've explored lots of different things and I can hear from what you've told me there are lots of barriers. How could we possibly remove some of those barriers, um, you know, who might possibly be able to help you with this, who, you know, what other options are there? So you can kind of really get into all of those different things with these things. So this is where you'd use the questions that really open people's minds. Um And what I'm going to do is I'm going to um send on a really helpful coaching script for you. And it literally has questions of about 40 on the sheet and it takes you from setting the goal to opening somebody's mind and really exploring the possibilities, um understanding their motivations right through to kind of what we're going to talk about next, which is the final bit of the te grow model, which is that w which is wrap up and will. So what will you do? So, again, this section of the model is really getting into question to focus the mind. And, and what I would say about these conversation tools is that they are just about having a conversation. And what it allows you as a mentor to do is to make sure that you don't just end up um just talking about reality or not having a goal or not having the opportunity to explore options and and, and things, it's really important to understand that this is not therapy, mentoring and, and, and coaching is very much about being goal orientated. Um My experience of using it in the pandemic was really helpful. Um So we very much use this for um for frontline staff and often the conversations we were having were about um managing, uncertainty, managing and understanding what it is that you can control. So this model is very, very good for doing that. Um So what you can't do is control everything that's going on in the world. But what you can control is maybe how you frame something in your own mind. Um getting control of what you have, you know, to eat or what your next drink is going to be. What your next conversation would be, who, who might be helpful to spend some time with, who really restores your batteries. So this model works like that kind of big career level. So, you know, I want to be the best, you know, psychiatrist in the world. Um But then at the same level, you can very much use this, you know, for those personal um conversations just to allow people to do the control the controllable moments. So what might be the one thing that could help? And that might be a really useful way to, you know, to spend a few, a few minutes, I think equally, if you've only got a short amount of time and you're maybe having a corridor conversation, you know. You know, have you got a minute? No. Well, I've got 10, you know, what would be the most useful thing for us discuss in the next 10 minutes. You can see there that you're using topic and goal and getting people to share that also as well. It focuses on them because rather than kind of going into everything that's happened since 1998 they're going to be focused in giving you that reality. So you might actually be able to ask them some questions and get them into a space that could be helpful. So that is a really useful, useful model. Like I say, it's not linear, you'll move back and, and my kind of watch out. It's never, never time wasted, just kind of going back in and checking what would, what would be helpful, what is the goal to make sure that you're, you're, you're kind of being really super helpful to that person, you coaching or mentoring. So I wanted to introduce you to um Boi's theory of self directed learning because um and again, I'm gonna send this on because I've got it as kind of AAA bit of a, a worksheet slash, you know, the presentation and, and what you're gonna notice as I go through this, I've just got a set of questions. Um So I'm just gonna use the opportunity and what I was just gonna invite you to do is to think about how you might ask these if we were in a, in a coaching or a, a mentoring conversation and mentors. This is a great way. Um You could send this stuff in advance. This stuff doesn't all have to be done in conversation. You, you know, the whole point of this is self, self directed learning and, and I really like this because I feel like it fits in with a coaching approach, but it does give some structure if you're having that kind of um mentoring space. And this is not just for training and education. Um This is um personal, you know, it can be all sorts of all sorts of different things that you can, that you can use this for. So you can see here that it's a cycle that goes round and round. Um So it's like kind of like, you know, where do I want to be? What's the reality going on right now? So you can see the connections with that, with that grow model. Um One of my favorite things um from a business and occupational psychology point of view is the um positive psychology movement. I'm slightly obsessed, obsessed with this, all the stuff that I read in it and I get really irritated when we start talking about bringing people up to standard. And I think one of the reasons why I didn't become a proper clinical psychologist is that it felt very much like we were always looking for what wrong was wrong with people and trying to fix it. Whereas the positive psychology movement, particularly in terms of, I think professional development, it's about what are your strengths. So I'll give you the example of myself. I am not particularly detailed, so I will give you a document and it is not um I won't see typos in it. I just don't see it. Um And um and, and basically, um I find that really difficult. Um But one of my strengths is is that I'm extremely logical. So I try and leverage that as a strength for me because I know I'm never gonna be detailed. But if I approach things in a logical way, it still allows me to catch things and make sure that I'm, I'm being specific or, or, or kind of accurate when I need to be. So it's about you thinking about what are my strengths and how do I use them? Um So you might not be the most outgoing person in the world, but maybe you're really good at listening and having conversations. How might you leverage that to feel more confident when you're working with lots of different people? So it's just kind of having those tho those different things, then there's the gap. So, and, and it's, that's really kind of me. I like, I prefer that. So this is my ideal stuff. This is the reality. These are my strengths and these are the things that I may be missing. So what's missing right now for me, um that's stopping me or, or, or, or, you know, is not allowing me to move to where I want to be. And that is where the mentor comes in. That is where the coaching conversations, the possibility questions to really kind of think about what is my learning agenda? What is the things that I want to do? What, what might I want to, to achieve and then going forward and not worrying about failing? So what, what, what is my plan for experimenting on? You know, you know, well, obviously there are restrictions in clinical practice. I'm not, you know, the, the whole kind of do no harm. Um It, it is really important here but with those kind of um softer skills, life skills, you know, personal life, you know, what, what, what might I like to do? And I come back to that phrase that, you know, if we keep doing what we've always done, we'll always get what we've always got. So how do we make sure that we maybe have the opportunity to try something different? And then finally, it's the kind of practicing um which is, you know, how, how will I make this, how will I make this happen? Um So I'm gonna kind of give you some um questions. So as I'm going through this, just kind of answer these in your, in your mind, I recognize this is, this is quite fast. And um um Abdullah um will basically, ii don't know if it's been recorded. I just seen your, your question. Um So, um basically, um what I'll do is make sure you have these, these resources so that you've got, you've got the background information on it. I'm happy to share my powerpoint with notes in it, notes in it as well. So in terms of this model thinking about yourself as a mentee, where do you want to be? What's the vision that you have, you know, do you need help to create that vision is something that you might want to be with a mental step into that vision? What does it look and what does it feel like? But I do recognize, you know, at the moment that that's challenging, but I think it's important to kind of understand what that looks like. Um and kind of um you know, there might be different self, you know, so there might be a ideal self over the next kind of 3 to 6 months and there might be a future self, which is, which is a lot further on. Um And, and really kind of think about what is what, what is your, what are you able to think about right now in terms of that, that ideal self um check in with the reality. So, from a skills perspective, um it might be, where am I at? This is very different from kind of educational supervision. But actually, um, you know, if, if, if you, you know, being a doctor surgeon, that's your chosen career, that, that's part of it in terms of kind of how you present yourself to the world. What's your current style? Do you have the kind of impact that you, that you would want to have? Um, do you get on well with people? Are there certain people you find challenging? How do want to see you? How might you get that data? Um You know, we, you know, you could do lots of different things. You can just ask, um, particularly if you're working with patients. So patient surveys, you could have conversations. So what, what is the reality of, of myself? Who, who, who am I? And does it, you know, how far away does it look to be from my, from my um ideal self? Oops, sorry, I've just lost my mouse. There we go. There we go. Lovely. And then my, obviously my favorite bit. What strength do you currently have? You know, it's really important to know what you're good at because I bet you're all brilliant, you know, and we, I think we're, we're so hard on ourselves and actually it's really important to do a really good stock take of how good you are. What, what do you do? That's brilliant. And how do you use that because you'll have friends, family who think you're amazing. And I think sometimes we disconnect that, that identity when we're in work or we're in training. So really think about what that that looks like and I can pretty much guarantee that you will be overlapping already with the way your ideal self is. Um think about where you've received positive feedback about particular skills. And when you're asking for feedback, say, what did I do really well then because I want to do more of that, don't just ask, what did I do wrong? You know, ask for, for those, that positive feedback. So you can really understand what you need to stop, but also what you need to start. And even more importantly, what do you need to continue doing? Really think about what you excel at? What do you love to do? What, you know, and, and I think there's a psychological term called flow, um which means that, you know, often time and space moves really quickly, you don't realize, you know, time, time goes super quickly and it's when you're in your absolute amazing moment. Um And, and you're having a really, really great experience and what do you find, easy to deal with? It's OK to find stuff, you know, ii quite enjoy doing this stuff. Um Speaking to lots of different people and I don't mind if I'm online or in a big room. Um My mood knows I have no shame. So it doesn't, it doesn't worry me. Um But for others that would be literally their worst nightmare. So, you know, really kind of think about what do I love to do and, and, and, and don't feel shameful about that, enjoy it, embrace it and do more of it and, and, and really kind of um um get into that space then thinking about what are the gaps in your existing skills? So it might be specific. Um I find them all the time. Um And some of that is that I'll go on a training course in order to be able to up that other times, I might want to notice and observe somebody who I really think role models that well, um you know, where does your ideal self and real self differ? Is it a big gap? Um And if you remember what I talked about previously, we talked about those rating scales. It's really helpful to use that. So thinking about the gap, you know, if 10 means that I, I'm completely hit my ideal self and where am I on the scale at the moment? Well, I'm at a four, but that's great. You know, what, what's it gonna take to get from a four to a five? Be open and honest about what situations um you find difficult to or, or, or deal with. Um It's really um important to notice and recognize that my preference is, is I like to go very fast. I have lots of ideas and it's all going to be amazing. So when people start asking me lots of um detailed questions about it, I find it really irritating because I just want to crack on. But that's, that's actually something that I've learned is not a strength of mine. Um And I, and, and I literally have a little mantra now, which is, they're just questions, they're just questions and so much so now I actually like the question. So I've kind of gone the other way. But that, that was a really difficult thing for me over the years. And that's probably something that I've had to, to learn to have a very specific coping, coping strategy about what tasks require extra effort. And that's important because when times get tough and our, you know, uh you know, our bandwidth can go from being here and like, you know, I can deal with everything, you know, maybe your bandwidth is here, you need to know what you find difficult because you probably need to put strategies in place in order to deal with that. So if you don't really do, you know in interpersonal conflict when that happens, that's gonna have an impact on you. So what, what are your coping strategies? How do you make sure you have those in place and also be open to feedback? Um I don't know about you, but sometimes I get feedback and I have a really, I get upset about it. It's a normal reaction might have a bit of a sulk about it. But actually that's usually because probably it's true. So it's just noticing and reflecting and trying not to move into that defensive space. I think we know our brain chemistry as well when we receive feedback. Um you know, our kind of old brain um our Agalla like, you know, goes with the emotions straight away and actually we just, we need to let that go, let that regulate and then let our kind of frontal cortex and our logic um kick in and just kind of notice and be curious about it and be kind to yourselves. Um So it just gives you that opportunity and that might be a skill or it might be an interpersonal interpersonal area. And then, you know, the things that I've, you know, talked about, I given some ideas as we've, as we've gone on, you know, what is your learning agenda? So how do you build on your strengths while reducing those gaps? And, you know, don't just look to get good at something that you find really difficult. Is there something that you find easy that you could, you could exploit in order to kind of use that instead of, of, of, of it, like I say, II have to say the advent of um A I has been very helpful for me because I do actually, um when I'm being really waff, I put a paragraph into Copilot or Chat E PT and it summarizes me and I find that really helpful, you know, so you can, there's lots of different ways to, to kind of work that through. Where could you acquire those skills? And you can't use chat GPT for everything. Although I do feel like it is my, my new best friend sometimes. Um What are the options or what can you possibly do? What resources are available? Um I really like this possibility question, which is if you have access to the, you know, the, the the biggest expert in the world on the thing that you're trying to do, who would that be and what would they do? What might you ask them? So you can kind of, you know, what advice might they give you so you can get really creative in your thinking around your learning agenda and who might help you to do this, what resources might you possibly need. And then it's a chance to, once you've made your plan to actually go out there and think about what we're gonna test out. I'm gonna approach this person differently. And one of my experience of this is, was working with a, with a, it was a, a head and neck head and neck surgeon. And he clearly thought I was extremely frivolous, couldn't be bothered with me. And we had a big project to do together in theaters and I worked out quite quickly that he needed to think. And of course I was going chat, chat, chat, chat chat, chat, chat every time. And I and I did not give any space for him to talk. And I remember going away and coming back and trying a completely new approach, which was to ask him a question and then just be quiet and it was genuinely a revolution for our relationship because all he did was time to think and he allowed us to do um a really, really amazing piece of work together where we both used each other's strengths. Um But somebody has to go first. So for me, that was me choosing to do something different. And it was an experiment. I didn't know if it was gonna work, it couldn't have got any worse. And actually we became really good colleagues as a, as a result of that. So it's thinking about what skills might you experiment? How can you identify different opportunities? What are you going to do? And I think it's really OK to fail. And I've been, we've been talking about this recently within the hospitals that we work in is that we're so terrified to fail. It stops us from trying new things or even innovating because we're kind of so set up to do that. So what experiments might we do? And how do you create a safe environment? And if you're a mentor or a leader or a clinical leader, how do you make sure that you're creating a safe environment in the team so that people feel safe to test things out or to ask questions and, and have a little go with that. So that is seven you know, um six slightly different areas of self directed learning. Um I will make this available. But if you're a mentor, this is a great kind of script to use or to have in front of you equally, if you're a mentee, this is a great piece of work to do as a reflective preparation piece to think about what might be helpful for you. So I think, you know, if I kind of summarize grow is more, I would say for those more helpful personal conversations and the self directed learning model is really useful for those more structured things that you'd want to do. Um And again, they're just both frameworks and you can mix and match, find your own style. There's lots of other coaching models out there that you can, you can use. Um So these are just two that I've kind of chosen to present that offer a more kind of non directive aspect of things with a, with a kind of medium directive, with the, with the self directed learning model that allows you to kind of think about how you might want to apply these in your, in your training and also in your, in your personal life as well. And then finally, the first thing you do have to do is do these things. So this this this slide fits um fits for everything that I've talked about today. So how do you put these skills into practice? Um How are you gonna do it and how, you know, they've been successful. So I'm kind of coming back to those smart goals, you know, what is the measure gonna be? Um And I've been measures with teams and they've been everything from um no more difficult emails between me and this person, um or everything just feels better. Nobody moaning right through to, you know, very kind of specific measures like, you know, the amount of do not attend in clinic will, will, will have reduced. So you can have lots of different measures. Remember those, those scales that I've talked about as well. So you can start to have personal measures of what, what, what, what's important. So one of the things that I wanted to kind of talk about, um and I think it's in any scenario and, and contracting doesn't have to be, you know, um a piece of parchment paper with a big seal on it that everyone's signed. Contracting can happen even when you're having a 5, 10 minute conversation. Um but contracting is, is something that is really important, particularly if you're entering into a more formal conversation to be really clear about what this is and what this isn't. Um you know, like I say, mentoring and coaching are not therapy that there are some things that are adjacent to it in terms of that space to talk about, you know, what's important to you, difficulties that are going on in your world. Um But it is really important to find out why, why is the mentee coming for mentorship? Where are they now? Um you know, is a conversation about maintaining someone's bandwidth so they can function or is it about innovating and, and moving forward? Um What do they want it to achieve how you work? Like I said today, um earlier, what are the initial goals and motivations, any practical arrangements and barriers? And I was reflecting on this when I was coming into, you know, thinking about you, you know, I would imagine the barriers are, are, are, are almost extreme for you guys. So what, what does that look like? How might this work work for you? Um How will you review it? Is there an endpoint? Does there need to be an endpoint? Um If there is, how might you discuss that? And I think it, what's really important as well is confidentiality agreement both way and also the fact that it does have limits. Um So what I would always say to somebody I was working with is that everything we say in this room is completely confidential unless you tell me something, which makes me worry that you're going to harm yourself, harm other people or is something illegal that I would be legally required to, to pass on? So that is the confidentially conversation that I would, I would have with, with individuals just so they feel confident I'd also talk about the fact that I would never break confidentiality if I needed to without having that conversation first. So that they were really clear about why and what, what was going to happen. I haven't had to do it. Um, I've only had to do it once when a safety concern came up in a, in a, in a conversation that I was, I was having, um, and it was resolved and it was absolutely fine and it was done, done with that individual. But I'm just recognizing that if you're in a clinical scenario and someone discloses practice that you are concerned about, it's really important that you contract up front for that because, you know, you would, you would need to disclose that if you had a, had a safety concern. I mean, I wanted to talk about the barriers. So we've got the, the joy of Darth Vader um here and his, his leadership approach, power and authority is something that is really important in the flatter. You can get your, your relationships as in kind of leave your badges at the door, leave your qualifications at the door. Um And just, you know, um really kind of embrace that, that relationship. Um But also recognize that if you are mentoring somebody and you also are maybe in their direct line of, of, of command, um or, or line management and that, that will have an impact on that relationship and there might be limits to, to, to what you can do. And trust and psychological safety is really important that person you're mentoring, um You need to know that what you say won't go out of the room other than the parameters of confidentiality I mentioned earlier. Um If you're not inclusive, if your mindset um is not interested in like everything from the way that people might think about things differently right through to any prejudices or um unconscious or even conscious bias that you, that you might have. Um And it's just really important that as mentors and even mentees, that we make sure that um we kind of try and leave that out of the thing and that could be everything from, you know, religious belief, it could be societal, it could be cultural, it could just be an opinion about how to do a particular procedure. There's lots of different things that could get in the way. So it's about how do you have that open mindset? And this is me being fairly blunt, actually lack of rapport. If you don't get on with somebody, it's not gonna work and it's ok to do that, which is why the contracting is really important that you kind of have a rapport meeting. And if it's not working out that both of you just walk away with no consequences, so that's really important to, to kind of talk about time and opportunity, which I would imagine is challenging. Um It is challenging enough um working in the NHS but given the circumstances that you're under, it's really important to think about what would work. Um that doesn't add extra stress. Um Do we have enough mentors? Um And it is really important and I think someone we were talking about, you know, do you need standards? I mean, for us, um I really like our coaches to have a formal training. We talk about level five training, which is kind of just below degree level. Um, um, um, you know, which is that kind of um a set, a set qualification you would have in coaching and mentoring. Um I think also as well, um having a non coaching mindset where you just end up with a mentor that just tells you about their career and how amazing they are and just lets their advice wants to go to go to town. Um So it's really important that um as a mentee, it's ok for you to walk away if you're not getting what you need out of mentoring and if you are mentoring, um how might you not do any of these things? And, and if you feel like you might, you know, one of these two of these things might, might be a barrier, how might you possibly overcome them? So I'm just gonna kind of finish off by reminding you of the coaching spectrum, the ask and tell and just get you to think about where might you like to spend some more time? Um As I finish this both as um you know, if you're just in your daily life and, and on what that looks like. So, yeah, so thank you very much for, for, for listening to me again. I'm sorry if I go very fast. Um That is my natural, natural preference, but I'm more than happy to, to answer questions with, with my mood. So thank you very much and I'll stop sharing. Thank you so much Lucy for such a comprehensive talk on both the theoretical aspects and the practical aspects of mentoring. It's, it's quite a lot to cover it, isn't it? Um And you've done a really good job covering uh the basis of it and hopefully in she will have more sessions with you where you can go into more detail. Um We have questions in the chat for you. So um the question that I think could be directed to both yourself and doctor Gani um perhaps yourself. Um We have asked the question around uh brilliant ideas. Thank you. Can we discuss a few practical examples as to how we can employ smart umbrella, qualitative and visual goals in the context of medical students in Waza with the backdrop of trauma and daily war zone struggles? Yeah. Do you want you want me to take that one? Yeah. Are you happy? Yeah. Um Can I, can I give you an example of, of somebody that I work with in the pandemic? Um I know it's not exactly the same. Um One of the things I did is I mapped somebody's day out with them and we literally kind of did it almost as a little process map with post it notes. And one of the things we did is talk about what if there was something in there, you know, what a what are the things that you have control over right now? Is there anything on there that you do have control over? And then let's pick the thing that you do have control over that would have the most impact. And, and, and for me that is how I would use some of those techniques and then it would be almost be very, I wouldn't be writing it down. I wouldn't be putting it in an action plan or anything like that. It would just literally be listening, allowing that person to explore what, what would make a difference. Um And also actually getting to that one or two things that would, that would make a big difference. And I think what I would notice about very, very difficult and often um traumatic situations because one of the other roles that I do within the trust is I do psychological debriefing when um you know, nurses, doctors have been in a difficult, a difficult situation and sometimes it isn't the big stuff that needs to be addressed. It's the small stuff that's personal to you. And I think that's the thing that I've learned through coaching and mentoring. I suppose the other thing that I would want to notice and I would, um, want to understand is you can usually tell if somebody is not coachable. If there isn't one thing that they can find to do, it probably means they need other support than coaching and mentoring. So you would need to be signposting if it's available to something more, more specific. And I think it's understanding and noting that um but things like psychological first aid, I can, I can share and kind of being in that moment with somebody noticing, making sure the basics are in place. Um I think the other thing is around routine. So what routine is what routine is possible if any and and trying to, trying to how to explore that I can't possibly understand what you're going through. But that, that for me is my example of how I would do it and I would try and focus on the one thing that actually could make a difference and it's a control the controllable moment. How can you create small nuggets of certainty in a completely uncertain world is, is probably the easiest and most structured way I can think you could apply this. Yes. Uh And if I just may add, I mean, trying to support the students through their education actually is an excellent idea for the mental health and wellbeing because they, they went into medical school to become doctors and the loss of that is is a big loss to them and a big trauma. So actually being able to support them, being able to encourage them, being able to direct them towards how they can achieve that target is is of great psychological importance and benefit to the students and uh and would relieve, would relieve a lot of the anxieties and, and concerns that they have. So you are doing them a favor even indirectly by supporting their educational process. Yeah, there's something about the most normal things you can do in a completely difficult and strange situation is all the advice that you get. So if you go, you know, to the British Psychological Society, um all the advice we give is to where you can find some sort of routine and like you say, do the things and I think absolutely that you, that you can. So that's, that's perfect. My um Yeah, thank you so much for that answer. So actually this the next question is a bit of a follow on from that uh Alan Gear asks, given the current state of training in Gaza in your experience. Is it more effective to balance mentoring or coaching? Ie more listening or more directing slash guiding and yeah, I'm happy for both of you to answer. But if we start with Lucy then Mahmod can, um, chime in later? Oh, that's a difficult one. I suppose my answer would be that I would want to ask that person. I would let her be guided by that, by that individual. Um, I think it's really important to understand what someone's needs are my experience of, of kind of people being in difficult situations is that, um, sometimes they want to explore it and talk about it and understand emotionally what's going on for others. They're like, do you know what I know what is going on? I can't change it. I'd like to talk about something else. So I, for me, I would always ask that, ask that question first um and understand where someone's concerns or anxieties or, or motivations were and what was, what was gonna help in that in that moment. So it would not be what I think I would, I would always ask what would be helpful to them. Yeah, II II concur with what you're saying, I don't think there is uh the, the students are gonna be that homogeneous and that they all want the same and they all have the same concerns and they all want to achieve the same and, and you do need uh and as we said before, in the mentor mentee relationship, the mentee should be leading the conversation. So you should listen to what they want out of this and then figure out do they, are they asking for mentorship or are they asking for coaching and then tailor your interaction with them according to their needs? So different students are gonna be different. Uh and, and we need to react to them differently and act with them differently. There's no set standard way of going to these meetings and this is what we're gonna do. ABC. No, you, you may, you'll have to change it around. So the, the trainees needs or the students needs because they are the ones controlling the agenda of the meeting, not you. And the next question, I think we can all have um something to chime in for. And Sara asked, um can someone please explain what our role as mentors will be, which we covered quite extensively over the course of this morning? Because I remember. So um Sara has applied to um do some teaching. And now over the course of the morning, we've explained the difference between what teaching versus mentoring is. But I suppose when we think about it in a broader context, teaching and mentorship is not mutually exclusive and this will have to be decided on a 1 to 1 basis based on the needs of the, of the individual that you are mentoring. So if you have a particular area of expertise where you are able to them towards a certain goal, and this may be educational beyond the official program, people are more than welcome to do unofficial kind of like unofficial small teaching supplementary to what is already being offered through the program. Um I was wondering if um anyone else has anything to add? But that is the basic gist of how teaching and mentorship is not mutually exclusive. However, there are specific pathways if you want to focus more on teaching rather than mentorship. But again, these things are not mutually exclusive exclusive as we are meeting um the needs as they arise. Yeah, I II, look at actually mentorship as a more important uh uh I issue than teaching. You can get teaching from so many other sources. You know, you look, you can watch a video, you can attend the lecture, you can. But the mentorship is a, is a, I think it, if it turns into the M MT meetings, if they turn into teaching sessions, I think it's a waste of a, a great opportunity for the, the MT to uh understand themselves to actually work or work out ways to improve things. Where do they want to go? Understand how they can go about it and all of that. So it, it, it is a I, I understand what you're saying. It's uh you know, you can go either way, but I think mentorship should be about mentorship rather than uh converting it to a teaching session. But if the student wants to ask about the specific topic, I'm a, I'm and I'm the world expert at, that's fine. You can, you can talk to them about it. Yeah. Um, if that's, if that's on their agenda, but I think we shouldn't teach, change these sessions, uh, into teaching sessions. I think one of the most powerful things you can do is if you are the expert, maybe you are the expert in the, in the world and you ask that person, well, how would you approach it? And they tell you how you, they would approach it and you go, that's brilliant. That's exactly how I would approach it. That is a, that is a perfect teachable moment where you have, you haven't taught but you have, does that make sense? Because actually their, their confidence will have gone from here to, to, to hear. So you, I think it's always really helpful to, to do that. And if they don't know how to do it, that's absolutely fine. You can say, oh, that's great. And what I, what I'm curious about is um is this, you know, I noticed that that was missing, this is what I would have done. Um You know, how would we and just reframe it? So I think there's a really, you can kind of combine those kind of coaching and mentoring techniques um within your teaching even. And I had some of the best sessions I've been to are, are in that scenario, aren't they? Even if they are more formal formal? Is that kind of, um there's a, we, we run a leadership program and they have what they call critical companions with them. And they, they're essentially coaching and mentoring, but they are there not just to support, they're also there to challenge, challenge their mindset and approach. Um But, but doing it in a way that um gives them a safe space to fail if they need to. And I think that that's what mentoring does, doesn't it? I think I can speak from a medical student point of view and can give an insight as well. Um So when I think of the word mentorship or a mentor, I'm looking for someone who can guide me and assist me or help me in developing, not just professionally but also personally. So it doesn't have to be academia related, it could be non academic as well. It could be something as simple as how, how can I communicate better? Like, you know, how Tari also mentioned advanced communication skills. So that doesn't always have to be in the academic setting. It can be in a non academic setting as well. So a mentorship as Lucy and Mahmud and everyone else has been talking about, it's quite holistic and it's not very specific to academia. So, yeah, definitely. Right. Thank you so much. Um So I understand you have other commitments, Lucy. So I think we can let you go. Um because the next question will be um Mahmood would be the best person to answer this. Yeah, so Nada asks, thank you. No worries. Thank you so much. Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure. Those are excellent workshops. Thank you. All right. And if anyone has any outstanding questions for Lucy, you can email them to our inbox at mentorship at GEM online and we can redirect those questions towards Lucy as needed. Um So the question from NADA is, will the mentors in a program also have access to other programs under GEM? For example, if a mentee is experiencing symptoms because of trauma, depression, anxiety, et cetera, we will need to cooperate with mental health services. So I will um direct this question to pro bar. Yeah, II mean uh II said earlier that we are working on a mental health and well being uh scheme as well within the gym scheme for the students uh that will be able to access that uh if they require it. And uh it there will be many students that will will benefit from psychological support and uh wellbeing support. And I II think we will have that hopefully, as I said, uh starting in January uh February at the latest. So by the time you start having a relationship with the mentees and the students, and if you identify any requirement for psychological support or mental mental health support, you'll be able to direct them. So I post them to the other scheme and they can register for that. We are looking for uh still recruiting psychiatrists and psychologists uh especially especially if they speak Arabic and English. Uh but e even English is fine uh to, to be members in that scheme and then we'll hopefully open it up to the students and it will be available to the mentors to refer students to that scheme. So I just want to kind of like redirect that question as well because I think Nader is asking, will the mentors themselves um have access to uh to the scheme or will we need to go through different pathways? No, II think we can, we can open it up to the mentors as well. Uh If they, they, they require that kind of support. Uh I haven't uh I have to be honest. Uh I wasn't thinking about that but I think it's a very reasonable idea and a very good idea and very good suggestion which we will, we will follow through and we will have part of that m mental health and wellbeing scheme also for the mentors and also for any other person involved in the scheme that have become in contact with the students. So some of our faculty members who deliver interactive lectures have had interactions with the students and the they heard stories from the students and also you know that that might have affected them. So hopefully we will open up the uh mental health and wellbeing scheme, not just to students, but also to mentors, but all the volunteers within our scheme. That is fantastic. Um So actually from um Lucy, you've touched on this earlier, but there is um if you are based in the UK AE Learning for health course called um called um Mental Health First Aid, which is quite good. And I would recommend checking that out, especially if you are thinking about being a mentor while this um while the psychiatry side of things is being set up in the interim um to equip you with some basic skills for mental health first aid, if you ever do find yourself in a crisis situation. But in the meantime, I hope that, that it, we really do have quite a good support network within gem. So if anyone is experiencing any difficulties, you are free to, to email the mentorship email to which me and Hansa have access to and we would be able to signpost you to the most appropriate person who can help you deal with some of these issues that might arise in the interim. Good. Just looking at the chart to see if there are any further questions maybe from before, if we have missed out. Yeah, I II wanted to get back to if I can to a question about dental uh education. Oh yes. Uh and I, and I'll just uh if I can share uh if I can share some uh some s slides, can you see that now? Yes, we can see that. Yeah. Uh No, no, no, we can see um your screen that you're sharing which is currently um the med platform? Oh OK. OK. So if you just switch your window then we can access the other presentation. Mm Stop sharing. OK. Share. How is that now? Um Nothing has appeared so far. Why is it not working now? It's worked before? Uh OK. Yeah. Uh Can you see my No, it's, it's appearing now. You can see it now. OK. Yeah. So uh like the Gaza educate medics for medical students. We recognize that the whole healthcare system has been affected and the whole, all the sectors within uh the the healthcare uh delivery system in Gaza and education have been affected badly. And one of them is dental education and we do have this scheme starting which is G uh and it's a, it's AAA collaboration between us and the refugee crisis foundation who have had a lot of work with refugees around the world, especially with the Rohingya refugees uh for setting up dental services and dental training. So it's uh dental health. So it's been quite a fruitful collaboration so far. Um There is just to give you an idea, there is 1000 500 dental students uh in, in Gaza uh in two universities and Aar and Palestine University and they run a five year program. Uh and it's a similar proportion of the students has left Gaza uh to uh Egypt. Uh And the the students outside of Gaza are are smaller numbers but they require uh dental, they 34 and five require practical skills the same as in, in medical education. And they, some of them have gone to Pakistan now and some we are working on uh getting them to South Africa as well like the medical students. So that program has three parts. Uh the platform which we're going to get the material from King's College London hopefully and place it on platform for all the dental students to be able to access all the learning material. We're working on temporary training facilities for the clinical students. Um And we're working with our partners in Gaza and Jordan to construct temporary training facilities. But more recently, we've had offer of existing clinics that are still functioning that may be used for uh training. Uh and the the displaced students, as I said, 64 of them uh have gone to Pakistan already and we're working on South Africa to get four students there, which will happen in, in the near future and there is potential in Malaysia and Indonesia. So uh dental education is a problem and we are working on it. Uh And the next thing after that is actually nursing education, which we have started and we hope to continue supporting all the different sectors within uh healthcare education and healthcare delivery. So Marose Mosin asks if there is any similar programs of pharmacy and I think you touched on that briefly that you know that this is all encompassing of all aspects of. We're just doing things in one step at a time. It's actually an interesting question because I've got contact contacted recently by one of the deans from the pharmacy Colleges in Gaza. And they want to discuss setting up uh a support program similar to these for the pharmacy students and I will be in contact with them and we will work with them. But we're also talk thinking about physiotherapy. We're taking occupational therapy, all the different aspects that will be required now and in the future, once the war finishes and um hopefully in the rebuilding phase and in the long term, so all these projects that we're working on, uh they're not gonna finish now. They're gonna be running for 3 to 5 years at least until the war finishes and until recovery happens. Uh So there is a need for this to be going for a few years, but also whatever we establish now will be left to the medical schools to use in the future. And one of the things we're trying to do is build an alliance, an international alliance of medical schools for Gaza Aes G school. And that will be the bedrock of supporting g supporting all the activities that we're gonna do and that will have imme immediate support. Then I intermediate support during the rebuilding phase and then long term and support in term of exchange programs for the students exchange programs for lecturers curriculum reviews examiners to participate in examination and so on. And we're getting trying to get medical schools to sign up to that scheme, which will be a, a long term project of support because Jim, hopefully once the medical schools are back in on their feet in 35 years time gym will not be required anymore. But we're hoping from what we are doing now to build that alliance that can keep going on indefinitely. Thank you for that. And I think Neil has um made quite an important comment that I'd just like to share with everyone. He says, I am reflecting that as mentors, we will have emotional needs, however, we should build and use our support networks radiating away from palmed. For example, we have appraisals and should declare this mentorship work in that context. We should build our support networks in our place of work formally and informally, what we are doing is mentors should be visible and professional. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I think uh we should uh think of encouraging others within our working environment if you think people are suitable for this role to actually participate and all they're doing is mentoring a medical student. This medical student happens to be in Gaza. But all they're doing is mentoring a medical student. They're not doing anything else. So uh i it it's, it's an, it's not gonna get anybody into trouble. Um And if they, if you feel that there you are in contact with people who fulfill this role and can do this role quite well. Do approach them please and do encourage them to sign up to the scheme. Yeah. And as a part of that, I think I mentioned earlier the ratios that we currently have of mentors to students and we have over 2000 registered students. And we in comparison have about 280 registered mentors. We can't decide for the students who wants to sign up and how many of them will because whoever signs up will pair them with the appropriate mentor. However, expanding the pool is something that we always encouraging people to do just because we cannot anticipate the needs because we don't know them yet. And this program hasn't been running for a long time so we can anticipate more students to join in the future. So really, it's the matter of getting as wide a pool as we can and try to get as many people involved as we can. That way we have, we can draw from the vast network that we have in order to create the support that these students really need. So regarding posters and flyers and material regarding this, this will be sent out to everybody obviously who signed up to the. But we will be talking today about, I think later on about how to uh be involved and how the scheme is gonna run. You know, uh I think Leana and uh are going to describe how int steps, how it's going to run. Uh and, and ho how it's going to be managed. So hopefully you'll get some of the information there, but we will create a AAA Flyer that has all the information, how the scheme is gonna run contact details that we can send to everybody and, and we will put it on our web page, uh our website so that people can use that to approach people. Have you heard of this scheme? Are you interested in the scheme? And you can give them the information to, to ah consider? Yeah, absolutely. Um So I'm just gonna look at the chart to see if there are any further questions and if not, we're done for the morning session. So thank you everyone for joining for the morning session. Um We will break off for lunch uh And we'll be back on the platform at 2 p.m. We'll have an afternoon session where me and Eliana are gonna talk a little bit more about ourselves, the uh scheme itself. Uh and how we're, we're gonna run and then we'll have a panel discussing mentorship in hostile environment. So um we'll have you back at 2 p.m. then.