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And um welcome to our podcast episode. Um So, um just a little bit about what a a is again. Uh So we are a nonprofit organization and we provide free resources um and other health services um to healthcare professionals and students around the world. Um So, in today's podcast episode, I have the, yeah, uh an honor of having one of my colleague here, Sam who was in F four. So, uh Sam, Sam, could you just tell us a little bit about yourself if that would be good? So, um yeah, so I'm Sam. Uh I went to cardio medical school uh with her as well. Um I did six years. So I did like the full five years plus an integrated degree. Uh And then I did my foundation program here. Uh And then once I finished that I wanted to do something slightly different. So I did a teaching college job for two years. Um And I've just started like my F five now. Uh just uh until I sort of apply for training. Really? Ok, excellent. Um Could you just tell me a, a little bit about your indication what you indicated in Yeah. Yeah. So I did it between three and four. just because I thought it'd be, I just needed like, something different just to break it up a bit, uh, without sort of interrupting too much of the clinical aspect. Uh, at, at the time I was interested in like Neurosciences. So, uh, I did the PSD in neuroscience in, called UNI, uh, so it's like a combination of, uh, sort of basic science um uh from like a neuroscience perspective. Uh And there are some bits with uh psychology as well. Um I know the course has changed but that's what I was. Yeah, at the time. But it was nice. Ok. Excellent. Very good. Um Can you, do you mind telling us a little bit about your um dissertation for your in? Yeah, I know it's been a while. You're not too good. Yeah. So I was looking uh uh a protein called a um-hum uh and how it affects uh the development of dorsal root ganglia uh in uh like mouse embryos. Um So, uh yeah, I had to dissect quite a lot of like mice. Um And then it's, it's like completely different. So it's like a lot of like cell culture learning loads of different techniques and uh and also how to do like uh statistics and stuff like that. Um You don't really do that much. Yeah. In which, in your five year degree. Yeah. So, something slightly different. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. II mean, you do use SSS the student selective components. Yeah. SS and there is an element of research there. Um, so we get taught how to do things like and, um, um, you know, medical ethics and all sorts of things. But, um, I think having a particular degree definitely helps. Um, but what do you think? Did you, if you go back, do you think you would, you would do it again or would you rather do some? Um, yeah. No, I, II definitely thought at the time it was a good decision. Yeah. Uh I thought it was nice to do something different just, uh, um, because I think at the time I was finding medicine, like, quite repetitive. Yeah. Um, so I thought it was like a nice change to mix it up. Um uh and at the time I was interested in research. So, um I thought it was like good just to have a good understanding because I feel like SSE s and stuff are nice. But I think the time you get to spend doing that versus doing like a proper visitation, it, you just get a bit more time to explore stuff. Yeah. Um, and I think for me, at least it opened a few doors later on. So, like it helped me to get my teaching fellow job in neurology. Um, um, at the time it was, um, I could use it for training applications. I know it's changed slightly now. But uh thinking about those things at the time, I think it was the right decision for me. But I still use the stuff I've learned from it even though maybe OK, it might not get me points on like an application now. But I think the stuff that I learned from it are useful. Yeah, for like, for like my academic bit that I do now. Excellent. Very good. Um OK, fine. So I just wanted to ask you, I mean, we did a little lecture on um the oral application applying to F four foundation program. Um So could you just tell us a little bit about your kind of application or application in your foundation program of where you applied to? And what was your so like? Yeah. Uh so I think I wanted to stay in Wales at the time. Um Home for me is man just about, I sort of really enjoyed being down here. Um And I think I wanted to stay down south anyway. So I think for me it was more like where I was comfortable working. Um So like where my friends are going. Um and um just like having stuff to do like outside of work. Really? Yeah. Um So I rated South Wales quite high because I knew the area particularly like as a college brand. You like go to all the hospitals. Yeah. You know which bits you like, which ones you don't like? Yeah. Um and II thought it would be nicer to learn to be a doctor and not having to learn to be a doctor and also trying to figure out how the system worked. Yeah. So, I thought it was like a, less of a cognitive, like, load. Yeah, I guess. Yeah. Um, and then I thought, because the area was nice. I was quite happy with living here. Like, I think you need to have, like, some friends nearby co, it's like quite a heavy, yeah, once you start. Yeah, I agree. Um, and it's nice to have people that, you know, like to do stuff outside. Yeah. I mean, regardless of where you go, like, you will make friends but it's like, less effort if you kind of, like, know the people already. Yeah. Yeah. No, II definitely. And I think that was the same reason why I chose to do my foundation program here as well. Um, but, yeah. Um, and also I really like to work. He, because, um, you know, he, he's like one of the, you know, major trauma centers and also is one of the research centers as well for Wales specifically. So, um, you know, I was quite lucky to, to, to get that. That's my first choice. Um, can you give us a reason why you decided to do an academic as an F two? Oh, I see. Uh, yeah. So, initially I wasn't really interested in the academic. Yeah, program. Um, I was like, Oh, I need to learn to do, be a doctor first. Um, and I thought it was, it wasn't. And I thought at the time I think, yeah. Um, I was happy with that position to be fair because, like, you do more on calls and things. Um, but I feel like after I finished F one I kind of missed doing all the research type of stuff and I found that it was quite hard to find time to do it, particularly when you start off cos you, I don't think you quite get the work life balance, right? Because you're on, like, it's like the first time you're actually, is like working on a full rotor, isn't it? Um So I thought having some time um built in to do something different would kind of make it add a bit more variety just to make it a bit more interesting. Um And I guess like when I did my academic or S FP in UW, there's a lot of variety of what you can do with that. So you can use those day to day teaching, do research. Um And there's quite a lot of flexibility about what you can do it in as well. So, um I thought it was nice to, to mix it up a bit, mix it up. Yeah, like having the jobs that you want. So, like if you were interested in like neuro maybe like you have the networks in Cardiff. So you want to stay here, um Or you might want to go somewhere with like a big center like Walton, for example, or like London. Um So I think it depends on what you want really. Um And I know you said that uh that initially you actually wanted to go into Neurosciences. Um um But you kind of changed your mind me asking what, what, what the reason was. Um I, so initially I was interested in neurosurgery. So I think it, I think it, with that particular specialty, it's like very, very competitive and got a lot of jobs. Um And II think what I found was like, I think the rota was quite heavy. Um uh when I spoke to quite a lot of people. Um And II felt like there wasn't really sort of like as good as, as good as a uh of a well as good work life balance compared to other specialties. Um uh And I thought like, obviously it's fine now, but I think once you have like a family and stuff in the future, then you've got other things to think about. Um And I also like having the time to do other things which basically what I've reflected on from being a foundation and things. So, um I think for me having a chill specialty that's a, that's got like the niche, it's very sort of like technical. Um and it's very sort of specific as opposed to like more generalist, um, or, and practical as long as it meets those things, I think I'm happy with that as I can as long as I do other, I have time to do other things as well. Uh, and I think that should keep me satisfied. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ok. Very good. Excellent. Um, and could you just tell us a little bit about your, um, what you did after your, um, actually before moving on to that for your, uh, for the academic, um, s FP any advise tips? Um, for the, um, so I think interviews as well as the CD. Ok. Yeah. So for, I guess, like, portfolio wise, I would say always, like, start early. Um, so I probably started doing sort of like a more academically bits further than second year. Mhm. Um, because quite a lot of ii, we have quite a lot of like, um, family friends who are like doctors and like, start early, start early. Hm. Um, so even if you have no idea what you wanna do, like, usually, like most specialties don't really discriminate based on like, having stuff in other specialties. Hm. You might get a bit more points for doing it within that specialty, but you still get points. That's what I'm saying. Um, so, um, I think the best way to go about it is, yeah, maybe find a specialist that you're interested in or like a consultant that publishes regularly. Like, it's got like, a good academic background. Um And then you can, like, email them and try and see if there's any projects going. Um So that's how I started. Um And then if you do a good job of one project, then usually you get more. So it's sort of finding someone that can sort of mentor you and also has a good academic background and then sort of like sticking with them, obviously, you don't have to stick to one person you can explore, but that's probably the best way of doing it cos then you get sort of like, right in the influx of stuff. Um And then you can sort of, you can work your way up from like, doing sort of like audits. Mhm. Uh And then you can, you know, present at our local meetings, go to like national or international depending on how it is. Um And then eventually, hopefully try and get it published, but that takes like months and months, which is also why you should start early because it takes forever to actually from the moment you write it and you send it, they want so many changes and other things, it just takes months to do it. Um So, yeah, just like, do a few bits, bits and Bobs here and there and then just spread it out. Um Normally I think that should be more than plenty um in terms of interview. So when I applied it was slightly different in that it was, it was mainly sort of like, um, personal statement based on what you've kind of done and I didn't really have an interview. Um, but I would say to go about it, it's kind of like all the same stuff, like, when you apply for, um, medical school, isn't it? So, it's like, you know, why you want to do it, what you, what you can, you do. Um, so having a good understanding of like the basic principles, like it's a randomized controlled trial and critical analysis and things because that's what some like units look for. And then also if you know people that have got a place to them and see like what kind of questions they had and how they practice as well cause I guess each gene does things slightly differently although I think it might be random medication now. Yeah. Um And also, yeah, I think, you know, I have to do it. Um It's a hard one because I guess I probably got those skills from actually in the inter Yeah. Yeah. Cos you do it so regularly and you have sessions where you sort of just need a paper and then you critique it for the tutor. I think, I don't really know how else to prepare for it other than just to like do it, I guess, I think. Um but yeah, II so, yeah, that's why I was saying like integration was quite so useful. You just pick up bits and Bobs that you don't normally do. Actually, we joined a few days, years later. I actually joined a general club. Ok. Yeah, I think the uni, was doing general clubs. Where you, uh, I think it was every Tuesday or Wednesday evening. Hm. We would give him like a paper and we would analyze and discuss, you know, in general. Um, so that's, that was the, yeah, that's a good one as well. And if there was a specialty you're interested, most departments do one every now and then. So I'm sure you can. Doesn't. Yes, it's just for people who haven't in place. That's all because I think if you do, you will, uh, you know, you do of, mm I think there are courses and stuff but I don't know how useful they are and they tend to be quite expensive as well. So, and it depends on how your brain works as well because I phone interviews and stuff. Some people find the courses useful. I had quite a lot of friends who like go to courses before like that. Uh, like special training interviews. I went to one before applied to medical school when I found it useful. It depends on how your, how your brain works. Really? Um ok. Yeah, fine. Oh yeah, that's quite a good point there. Um Cause there are a load of courses available for specialty training and um for different specialties isn't there? Yeah, they're just a bit pricey. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Excellent. So, um for the current, uh so you did a teaching for a job in the last couple of years? How did you find that experience? I thought it was really nice and I really enjoyed it. So I had two other colleagues, uh Jack L um and we all worked together to basically run the neuroscience curriculum in card of uni uh for the Air Force. Um It's definitely a lot of admin heavy. Um And it definitely take a team effort and I think we bought different things so he's just very efficient and very good at organizing. Um Jack just knew lo of bits and Bobs and really good at radiology and things. Um And I was good at sort of like near ophthalmology. Um and we all had our different strengths. Um And um yeah, it was, it was really nice to do something different. Um Obviously being a cardiff grad being on the other side is just like, it's like a nice experience on that end as well. Um And um I think you get like an opportunity to actually like learn how to well, so like practice teaching and get really good at it. Um And it was time to also do APG cert as well or post graduate certification in medical education. Um You do get points for that in most training applications as well. Um And it's like, it's something nice to have as well. And within your CVI, think when you're applying for, like, maybe senior jobs, um, and the benefit of doing teaching for that job is some of those jobs come with a funded PG. Cert. So, yeah, that probably saves you about 3 to 5 grand as well. Which is also quite nice. Yeah. No, I agree. I think that's a very, um, you know, it was the same in institution that I did in my teaching f they funded. Yeah, the PC. Yeah. Um, for the current F Twos looking into what they wanna do for F three, I, you know, II know this is kind of about the time that they either applying for specialty training or deciding to do an F three or F, or even any advice of any tips. Um, for the, I mean, um, what kind of, uh, now, now more than ever people are doing a three F three. There's a lot of people, yeah. Loads of people that I know all the people that I, I'm quite close to and when, when I was af two anyway, um, uh, I think more than 50% people decided to do an F three. Ok. Not going to special training. Um, but, yeah, for, WW, what would your advice for current F two? W do you think that they sh, you know, what do you recommend? Mm. I'd say. I know it's a personal preference but too many, I think you should definitely still apply for training because um obviously like on each application round, if you apply, you can do the MSR for free. Um um It's a bit of a weird exam because it's got like association of judgment aspect and it's got clinical knowledge which is a little more like, I guess what you're used to. Um um So I think definitely don't skimp on the opportunity to do that test just for practice. Um and it, and you know, even if you have no plans to accept the post, you can always apply for practice. Um So definitely don't waste the opportunity to do the exam. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, because um even if you don't have plans to fully commit to go to training, it's an opportunity to practice. So when you do want to go at least you know what to expect. Um And then I guess in terms of the actual jobs, then it kind of depends on what you want to get at that year. So maybe you don't have enough stuff and you wanna think about getting more experience. So when you come to apply, like you um have all the necessary bits. So teaching for jobs are great for maxing out the teaching section in most training applications. Um And it's also, it's got a slightly um again, it depends on what the job plan is. So you have to do a bit of digging around to see what your clinical commitments are. Um But generally for the neurology job that I had, there weren't any on calls or out to hour shifts. Um, which was quite nice because I wanted a bit of a break after F one or two. because I think I was a little bit, sort of like after finishing that. Um, so it was a bit more, so I had a bit more time to myself. Um, so that's important for me. Things like car has generally got this good reputation for neuro. So yeah, loads of opportunity to get more research on that. Um But there's like other things like, you know, like leadership uh posts. Some people are just lo because you have so much flexibility. Yeah. Um And then, you know, if you feel like you want to do a bit of traveling and things that's quite nice. Um um And then if you want to try other health systems, I had a few friends who went to Australia and had a really good time landlords. Um I was like, yeah. Um No, that's really good. Did you travel to? I know know of people did but I didn't get the opportunity to travel. But did you have any uh like not massive, like big holidays. But um me and, and we did a lot of traveling to, we like the city breaks. I went to Oslo um I went to Denmark with some friends, um went to Prague recently as well. Um So yeah, I've got to do a few bits and mobs more than I did in foundation. Yeah. Um, but, yeah, um, I had other friends who are, like, locum and went around Southeast Asia and things because it's so flexible. I know the locum market at the moment is quite tricky as well. So, because again, not a lot of people are going to training so more people are either locum or being like a clinical fellow or, um, like teaching other jobs. If you're into more research you could do research for other jobs as well. Um, and I guess some people do take clinical other jobs because I guess with low coming, there's a bit of like, um, uncertainty because it's like very ad hoc stuff. Um, whereas when you have a clinical stuff you've got a bit more security. Um, um, and it might be a way to get into a department. So, particularly if you, if you're interested in a specialty, um, um, I guess a negative would be like you're on a rotor so you have to, depending on your job plan. Yeah. So it sounds like you want to get out of the year. Really? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, I agree. I agree. And like I said, here, there's so many options there, there isn't there. Um, so many. So, you know, if you don't want to do pretty much, you know, mainly travel and I know people who traveled for six months and then they come for the other six months. I know people who did teaching for, like, I know quite a few people who teaching fellow and then quite a few people who just did like, a research fellow. Um, so there's so much variety out there. Um, ok. Excellent. Very good. Um, I think it definitely for the teaching fellow jobs and stuff. I think it's a, it's a bit, it feels a bit weird trying to interview after like the last you had might be like, or like a proper like formal like medical and medical, isn't it? So, yeah, you can definitely use some medical interviews book um because it gives you like a structure and an example answers. Yeah. Uh and also just like grab a friend and just do loads of mock interviews. That's probably the best way. And um also in between that you can probably just like practice saying that answers as well. I know it's a bit weird like talking to yourself but actually having an like an idea for an answer in your head and actually verbalizing it is just slightly different. Hm. Um And then you can get your friends a feedback because sometimes I feel like you have your opinion about stuff and it might either come across well or not. Yeah, but it's nice to have a second opinion. So I agree because when I was doing my interviews, I obviously practiced with my friends. But I also have a couple of, uh, registrars kind of registrars. Um, they could do a little mo with me because I think it is nice to get feedback from somebody who's the dentist actually got into. Yeah. Yeah. If something is going wrong it's better to know before the interview that. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Future aspirations. You, oh, I'm going to do, um, so I was going to apply for training in the wintertime. Yeah. Uh, for the next round in August. So at the moment I was thinking either radiology, anesthetics or um I think I've been interested in ophthalmology for a while. Um It's just over time after foundation and things like I had a really nice anesthetic rotation. Yeah, like uh the work life, I was great. All the consultants seemed really happy, very technical specialty, loads of interest stuff. I'm very practical. I liked it. And then recently I've done a taste of the week in radiology in like the heath and a radio lifetime. I find it really interesting. Um And it, I mean, I had my original perceptions was it's mainly sort of like diagnostic, bring out pictures and things and scans, but actually there's a lot of practical stuff as well to do um particularly like on the interventional side um and even um sort of like the blocks and things. Yeah. So that's also quite nice as well. So, yeah, I'll apply to all of those and see where, where, where I get. Yeah. And if I get in and then sort of take them there. Really? Yeah. So for coming and um I thank you everyone for coming. Uh Don't forget to like, subscribe.