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for people who like trickling the go live button is still showing up for me. Oh, yeah. Phil, are you there? He's still here. Okay, we're live. We live. We live now. Yeah. So, um yeah, people are tuning in now. Very good. Hello, everyone. We're just going to thank you for the ones that have started to come and trickle in. We're going to give it one more minute just to let everyone else, um, tune in. And just to confirm, can someone in the chat just say that they can see our slides? Oh, can you hear me? I hope so. The list of people is shifting. Okay. Thank you. Megan. Megan. Megan, Can you hear me too? Well, the fact that you've answered that question says that you know, I'm just I'm just gonna stop. Yes, Thank you. Thank you. Okay, great. Okay. Thank you, guys, but I chat messages. Akron less. It's showing up. It's showing up on the right hand in the panel messages. Yeah, I got it. I can only see the one from metal. Okay. It's okay. I'll read it out to you. But I'm happy for Alex. And only one Are you guys ready? Um, 20 people here. I think we had about 100 or so registered, didn't we? We have around 50 now. I've got 50. Yeah, I am. I just lagging, like, really behind very badly. Yes, but I think we should go. We should start. Yeah, I'm happy to go now. You You have jumping in. Okay. Hello, everybody. Welcome to the first in this series of webinars aimed at helping you through the process of applying for the Specialist Foundation program or what was previously known as the Academic Foundation program. It had a re brand, uh, last year we insure to three academic doctors will introduce ourselves as things get going. But the point of this series is to provide a free, easily accessible, easy to digest. And it's also going to be on demand as well, because these sessions are being recorded basically a companion guide, a companion series of of Webinars to help you navigate this somewhat murky set of waters when it comes to applying for for the sfp. Now, the first thing that we have to say we are all employed doctors now and we have to behave like employed Dr Professionals is that all the views expressed during this presentation and the series as a whole are solely those of the presenters, that being myself, aqua and Alex and do not reflect those of the NHS nor are employing trusts. But with that standard disclaimer out of the way, I will let my first wild colleagues introduce themselves very quickly, and we'll cover it in more detail. Yeah, so as we said, we're just going to cover who we are. Initially, we'll talk about what the SFP is. Talk about the advantages, any disadvantages. How do you actually apply? We're going to go into depth in a little bit about the academic units stats. Then you know, white space questions. I'll let Alex introduce himself. Hi, everyone. My name is Alex was a final your medical students. Just a few weeks ago, I started at UCL. Now, working as a F Y one doctor at the Royal Three Inches Foundation Trust Academic Unit is you see else I'm staying at the same trust as I trained at and my Year one rotation. Let's see our our general surgery, psychiatry and geriatrics. In Year two, I'll be doing urology, academic, nuclear medicine and radiology and a and e career aspirations for myself for academic urology. Um, yeah. It's odd, isn't it? Seeing your face and one of these things. Uh, so my name is Ali. I trained at the University of Warwick, which is down just outside Coventry. For those of you unfamiliar, the hospital I'm based at is really too large. Tertiary center is the Royal Victoria Infirmary and Freeman Hospital are bigger Regional transplant center. The academic unit, too, which I'm affiliated, is Newcastle University, who handle the academic bit of my contract. I completed F Y one jobs in HPB in transplant surgery. That's mostly gall bladders, Pancreas is and that kind of thing. Uh, I then had an academic rotation in F one, which is fairly unusual and finished up on acute internal medicine with a splash of clinical pharmacology and toxicology. I'm now into my foundation to, uh, a year, and I'm currently working in neurology, staring down my next academic rotation, and I will then finish in psychiatry. I mainly interested in neurosurgery and currently exploring, uh, possibilities of neuro interventional radiology, and that leaves me with me. I went to Lester, and I'm currently based at Royal. So, um, for two years, and it's a weird mix off. It's pretty much like a district general for anything medicine. For some reason, it's a tertiary center for surgical stuff, which is ideal for me because I want to be a surgeon, my academic unit, because my academic program is actually kind of not attached. I can do whatever I want. I have affiliations with U. C. L and I will be with the university of Sorry, and because I am also working with Newcastle, I put that down as my academic unit for my F Y one. I'm currently on general surgery, and I've cried at least five times yesterday alone. Then I'll be moving on to stroke rehab, which is a very, very chill rotation. Then finish on emergency before going on to my F Y to where I hope to do my academic block. Then, oddly again, academic endocrinology, where it's not typical to have back to back academic stuff. Um, well, I'll still be seeing patients, but the vast majority is doing research, focusing on endocrinology. And then, um, I will hope to get urology. If the last person agrees to swap. Um and, yes, similar to Alex. I want to be an academic urologist, but I'll hand it to Alex now. All right, I will briefly cover the first half of this session on an overview of the SFP program. So the SFP program is essentially rebrand of what was formerly known as the Academic Foundation program. I think the name is kind of a change to appreciate that there is more to just academic research in the foundation program as well touch upon in a bit. It's on an alternative application pathway to the standard foundation pathway. Um, and it's usually one in six of your rotation are now a different block. And as you mentioned now, these can include research, medical education and leadership and management. It's important to remember that whilst one of these rotations are could be research, for instance, you're still a clinician, five out of six and at that time, so it's not to forget that you're still a doctor working in the hospital, so you might be wondering, Why should I apply? Well, there are many reasons that you should one of them being that you now have dedicated time to pee, see your interests So if it was research, for instance, imagine the amount of spare time you had to put in to achieve a publication in med school. This was on top of you know, your daily lectures, um, turning hospital placement and having to do that in your spare time. Essentially, SFP now gives you a four month block dedicated to this, and you can do as much as you want. This will give you dedicated time again to develop your own portfolio and really to explore whether an academic career is for you. And that's what it's really designed for a touch up on this in a minute. The main benefit is you get your offer two months earlier than everyone else. You get your offer in January, whereas most people get this in March, so you already know where you are going, and when you get the offer, the sgot automatically is weighed less. You just need to achieve a satisfactory school, and as mentioned, one of your six rotations will be a break from clinical medicine, allowing you to pursue your own interests and research, and so on. Here is a overview. The integrated academic training pathway that's quite important to understand for the program. The AFP or SFP is essentially the starting block in the academic pathway. Some of you may have done an IBSC, MD PhD or even an embassy, and now it's the real time to have a dedicated path way while being a doctor to see whether a academic career is for you. The aim of this is if it is for you, then ideally, you'd be interested in pursuing this further. Maybe you'd apply for an A CF further down the line doing PhD ACL and, you know, looking at the longest scope, would you be looking towards a professorship in the future as well? But also, if you decide that after the S A P, it's not for you, you can go back to standard clinical training and you've lost nothing. There are a few disadvantages to applying and the first being that there's extra stress on your final year to apply. Not only do you have to tackle the application, but you've also got to prepare your application, prepare for interviews. You might not know what you want to do. So whilst there are 100 plus jobs in London, you might not necessarily know which one you want to be applying for and spending four months and, you know, really dedicated to that. There is a greater expectation that's your clinically competent, because you have one fewer clinical rotation. And that's essentially why all the programs test your clinical competency through a clinical interview. You also have one few rotations to choose the specialties. The foundation program is a great opportunity for you to get a flavor of different specialties and to see what you like to apply for later on. So now you have one for the opportunity to do that, so it's important to keep that in mind. This sounds great. Now. How do you apply to the Specialist Foundation program? This is run parallel to the foundation program, so it's your deadlines looming on the 21st of September. You'll be doing this alongside the Stand Foundation program you're allowed to apply to up to two A. You essentially very similar to the foundation program sceneries, and we'll touch upon this in a bit. The journal structure is that there is some form of long listing short listing an interview in an offer. Historically, certain places used the cells and this is not always used anymore. So historically, London you have DSL cut off for long listing that's now been removed and replaced. The short listing short listing typically is made up of your portfolio, and sometimes what space questions You proceed to an interview and an offer, and if you receive an offer in January, you only have 48 hours to sit on this. Decide and to either accept or decline it. So there is an urgency to this as well. Once you accept an S A P offer, you were withdrawn from all other foundation applications. So if you apply to the Standard Foundation Foundation priority programs, you're automatically withdrawn from those, and you now have a job as an SFP doctor. You are, however, still required to set the Sgot and PS A later on for the S J T. That's no longer feeds in like the foundation program as a score to E. P M. But you just need to get a satisfactory score. So this relieves a lot of burden, and most importantly, remember, you lose nothing by applying for it, so if you don't get it, you don't get it, and it doesn't affect your foundation program application. We've done the best we can to find every link to all of the academic units of applications for you. And here are a sample of the QR codes to easily access the pages. Finding information for these a US can be difficult, so we we recommend taking a picture of this if you can. One thing it's important to note is that from last year there was a generic called LAX, and that was essentially London. Cancer in Sussex, that is now split it to London is its own foundation school, and KSS and West Texas now merged to form another foundation school. So there are approximately around 15 a ways in total that you can apply to. It's important to look up each one because not all, not only are there different number of jobs for each one, but the types of jobs they offer are different, too. To some of them, the majority will be academic research, and some will offer others, such as research, uh, leadership management and medical education as well. And the numbers vary between them. This is a excel sheet that's available on the website for the foundation program, and it's worth looking into what type of jobs, the numbers. And so you are aware of that. Thanks for sharing. Just a rough of your statistics. So you have a greater understanding of you know how popular this is. This is from the 2020 recruitment starts. In fact report, we weren't able to find any later or more up to date information in the year. 2020 about a quarter of all applicants and final year applied. That's roughly about 8000 final year students, and about 2500 applied and 1700 submitted because not everyone will completely applications. Remember that you're allowed to apply to up to two foundations schools, and about half apply for 1.5 apply for two. This looks a bit scary to look at initially, but it's just a rough overview of the applications made by medical school and how many on the right apply to the local academic unit. So you have a greater understanding of, you know in your medical school. How popular is the AFP and say you went to UCLA and like to stay at UCL How many of your peers would also be doing that, too. Here's the tables showing the fill rates for the SFP. It's a very popular programs mentioned about a quarter of all the final year students will be applying, and every year all jobs are essentially filled. The first table shows the way the officer made. So on certain days in January 1st cascade of officer made if these officers accepted there withdrawn. If they declined, then they offered to the next scoring candidates. And so there are a few kind of cascades before they were all marked up at the end. Essentially, and they are nearly always filled and below is just showing the fill rates for each academic units of application. Thanks, Aqua. Yeah, I'm going to show you the same thing. So how can you prepare? First thing is to attend our series. We've designed an eight part series over two months every Thursday, covering essentially what's below. The best things you can do are to prepare your white space questions that they apply to you preparing your portfolio. That's do an oriole in the next couple of weeks, and the most important things are to prepare for the academic and clinical interviews. They're two separate styles of interviews, and there are two different methods that you need to to essentially prepare for each one. Um, and ultimately fingers crossed, you'll get your SFE offer and over to Levaquin now. Okay, Cool. Thank you, Alex. It's a really good, uh, tour through. I think so. I'm going to be talking a bit about the white space questions now. And I'm going to invite Aqua tha to chip in and interrupt me whenever she she wants to give some wisdom. Um, but we're going to talk about the white space questions now, which, which is probably the reason that most of you here. So what is a white space question? The best place to start is to know your enemy always. So a white space question is essentially a miniature personal statement. But unlike your medical school personal statement, someone is going to read what you write for your sfp. Her personal statement. It's a very brief, summarized way of learning more about a particular candidate. Crucially, what it allows you to do is it's it's a form of qualitative information, something that would be difficult to capture in something like the s J T. Or a typical Multichoice exam, or some other easier means of gathering data about a person you know, right from the offset just from the fact that whitespace questions are used and the fact that they are more labor intensive and time intensive than lots of other things that academic units of application could choose to do. That tells us that they're quite important. Otherwise they wouldn't do them. But we also have to remember that each academic unit of application uses them differently. And the best advice that I think we can give is you have to make the assumption that your entire score may be based on your white space questions, unless you specifically been told otherwise. Essentially, we don't know how each scenery may or may not use them unless they tell you. And so all I'm trying to say is, do a good job and make sure that you put proper planning and forethought into them. Um, because, like I say, as far as we know, it might be the basis of your entire application. Yeah, like I know, from listening to myths and legends that there are some January's that if they want to. They can very much absolutely scrap paper, scrap any projects and full fully focus on your white space, and they can do that whenever they want. So make sure that you really work on them. Yeah. Yeah. What? Do you want to go through these? Sure. So about some of my bugbears and some introductory tips? Um, I feel like having reviewed some white space questions. This is quite important. And I feel like a lot of people are not really answering the question that they asked that they're being asked. So you'll see in, like, leadership answers. They're giving team work and then in teamwork, answers they're giving, giving leadership stuff, obviously make an effort. And if something's not, if something's not related, don't try to force it or cram into it because they're most likely will be space for you to put it into another question. And yes, there should always be some sort of narrative. Everybody. When you're reading through a white space question, people intuitively want to look for a little story. So if you can flow, is good writing point evidence explain. And yes, I think this was key for I think early and I I think we sent our white space questions to at least what, at least like five people, the more I the better. But obviously, when it comes to a certain saturation point, it might spoil the broth, but initially try to get, you know, in its first stages. And I'm sure a lot of you have already done that. Get sent to as many people as you can and, yes, be honest. But then something that I've also noticed with, you know, the white space questions that I reviewed so far is you can be honest. While it's not being overly polite, you don't have to be like it would be an honor to gain this or, um, if accepted onto this, like, go for it literally. Just that those are waste, you know, you're wasting words. Um, you would relish the opportunity. Just just say that you would do this if you were given the SFP. You know, um, don't put yourself down, Be honest. But then, uh, you can over sell yourself. Yes, you can be a bit confident, but this is the best time to do that. Or do you want to add anything to that or not really about the golden. I think being it's the same advice that I give people who are who are applying to medical school when they're writing their personal statements and when they're going for interview, it's It's much easier to simply be honest than it is to try and second guess what an interviewer might be looking for at all times. It's just not worth it, to be honest, like the best way to do it is to go in, Be honest with your answers. And when you're writing these answers because that's also not only is it the easiest way to approach something like this is to tell your story, but it also means that you're more likely to match to a program that is right for you. You know that really is the optimal scenario that you are honest in your answers and that lands well with the person assessing your application. And then you get the job because you're a good match for the program and no waffling, because indeed, waffles are for breakfast, not for your Specialist Foundation program application. Yeah, if you've already said one thing in one answer, you pretty much don't need to copy and paste it. And if you can do something in one sentence, but you've written to just cut, cut, cut because if anything, yes, they will read it. But try to be as concise as you can. I'm handing over to you early. Cool. So this is just what we're going to call a basic plan of attack here. So these are principles that you should aim to be adhering to at all times. And this is not just actually for your white space questions, but for your interview for, you know, a clinical scenario. This is a good skills just to get down, but they're very important at this early stage. So point evidence explain. This is how I was taught to write in, like, a year four or whatever in, uh, in school. And it's it's stuck ever since, and it's because it's a really good thing to do. It should form the backbone of any writing you do. We're trying to capture not just events, not just the things that happen. If I told you about the events that happened to me today, they wouldn't be very interesting. But what makes them a story a story has to have a beginning in middle and an end, Um, maybe with a twist in there. If that's what you like, it's about capturing the event, trying to explain what you have learned and any outputs that you got from it. So it's quite important to try and capture through this process that you have some sort of plan or some vague orientation as to where you might want your life to go. A 10 year plan is often the easiest way to start. If that's too hard, try five year plan. What is it that you actually want from life? You know, Do you want to be a doctor? Do you want to be a surgeon? Do you want to not be a doctor? Do you want to be a researcher? Do you want to write nice guidelines? Do you want to teach medical students? Do you want to be a lecturer? Do you want to work in medical politics or the medical legal world? You know you could be doing human rights stuff that there's just so much you can do, Um, and just having some vague ideas of what interests you is a good place to start. So what we're going to do and how we're going to approach the next 20 minutes, half an hour or so is we're going to look at some examples of questions first. And these are from the 2023 s f p application documents, you know, the same documents that you all have been sent. So the first thing we're going to do is dissect some questions and then in a few slides, we're going to talk about how we're going to try and approach them. Okay, so please outline your previous research experience and achievements. It's used the word outlined there, which is actually an unusual word to put in a sentence. You don't see it used in this way very often, and it can be helpful to try and think about what that means. And what an outline is is a summary of the evidence available on a particular topic, given in some sort of chronological order, with a clear relationship between the ideas and the concepts that we're talking about. So here is an example of something that I drafted and put together. This isn't from my answer. This is just a a thing that we might see um, submitted and what I'd really like you to do. And what I'd really appreciate is if in the chat bar, this is where we're really going to use it is tell me something that you think about this. This isn't intended to be perfect. It's just an example of something that someone might right. So during student selected module, I designed and lead research into risk factors for obstructive sleep apnea, which resulted in a local oral presentation, a research prize from my medical school. I drafted the protocol, gathered survey data and performed statistical analysis. And the manuscript has since been accepted for publication in annals of medicine and surgery. And just as an exercise. Because I know that Alex and Aqua haven't seen this before. Just as I want you guys to to put in the chat. What, You think I'd I'd invite Akron Alex to see what they think about this. Because this will be brand new to them. So, uh, before we answer, um, we can let our amazing viewers answer to. So far we have from charlotte. It demonstrates previous experience, but it doesn't link back to the sfp and Emma. I'm not going to attempt to say your last name. Emma has said that. It seems to be quite a little bit of repetition in the last sentence. Should I chip in to what I think this is, I think, Oh, yeah. Ibrahim says it could be written more succinctly. Definitely. And I think I'm not sure if Alex, you're going to say this or if one of our amazing view of this is going to say this, but this isn't really outlining. This is describing if you will, Alex. Completely crazy Aqua. Um, I think this person had a very, very productive SSC module and obviously achieved a lot here. It's good to see you know, all the achievements they received, first prize presentation or presentation. Even the publication that that's really good to see obviously depends on the word limit if there is one. And but it's also nice to see if you could expand a bit more, uh, various factors here, uh, including maybe potentially know what you learned from it as well, Not just stating what you've done and what you've achieved. And Hugo has said it seems to mention only one project could they have included other experiences. And yeah, I think this is, um this allows me to mention what I wrote for this question. Essentially, what I did was little bullet points of the different methodologies that I've done the output, you know, because it says outline, Which means technically we can list because we have a separate question talking about and asking about our single best achievement. And that's where this possibly could have gone into if it was more concise. And if they spoke about what they could have, you know, brought to the sfp as well. Yeah, So again, like I said, this this is intended and there are other answers like this during this presentation. It's the way that I want you to think about it. If you're viewing. The talk tonight is these are not good or bad examples. They're just examples. And the thing that will help and help you draft your own answers is by you analyzing what they what, what, what I've written but what this hypothetical person has written and what they do well and what they do badly. And you can try and emulate what they do well and stay away from what they do badly. So in this paragraph, um, lots of you have identified the right things. This person has said they have described what they've done, which is a good place to start. They've described their outputs. They got some presentations, they got a price. They got a paper they've done, as Alex says, clearly, very well. In a short space of time. They have also said which parts of the process they were involved with as well, which is a great thing to do. Um, but Aqua, that there has mentioned her approach, which was talking about the different methodologies that she has worked with which, you know, you couldn't get a better example of research experience, could you? Because that's that's really what it has to be about. You're showing how valuable a researcher you could be in there. Institution. Um, we'll move onto the next example. So again, this is a second question that is given in this year's specification. So it's Please describe your previous relevant teaching experience and achievements as a teacher with in and outside medicine. So during the height of the cove in 19 pandemic, many students contacted me to say they were not getting clinical skills experience. I designed and organized a weekly teaching program for clinical students practicing their online on skis. I received excellent feedback, and my work was commended by my medical school. So just as we did before, I'd invite you to to write what you think in the chat because this is a workshop. After all, it's it's not us telling you what to write. This is, um, bidirectional, and, uh then, once you've had some time to digest it, I'll ask you and Alex to give their thoughts before we let our viewers digest this. Sharleen has asked, How many experiences would you discuss to avoid just listing and not reflecting? Or do you think it should just be a list for the outline for you know, the previous outline question? So I unfortunately, Charlene, I'm thinking that in every other space and every other question I've had, I've I've put decent amount of reflection. I put my aspirations. I gave them a good understanding of who I want to be. Um, if that makes sense. And I really used that as more for I did this. I did that list list list, but That's just my take. I would agree with that. I think outline is probably more to if it's on a spectrum between listing and reflecting. It probably is more towards that listing, um, end of things I don't know before we jump into the second example whether Alex you have any thoughts on that? Yeah, it's a fine balance, really. Um, I think the one thing to bear in mind for Whitespace questions is it's all very subjective. It's not like the portfolio where everything has a score. Everything is, you know, assigned a value. So here, you know, someone might think it's a perfect answer, but some reading it might think it's completely wrong. So I think it's really up to you and what you think is appropriate. And I think it's a balance between simply listening and maybe expanding a bit, too, because whilst it's useful to know you, you lead a international project. Really, I know what it involves. You've listened to me, but most important, what did you learn from it? How that, you know, um, affects how you do things moving forward, so that's a reflection is useful. But obviously it's a balance between spectrum know? Exactly. So I think I ended up with how I could benefit the SFP or how I could benefit or use my existing skills. But, um, we've got tons and tons of responses for the second example. Ali. Great. So let's have a look. So, Charlotte, 803, what's the last one? Great. So Charlotte said it shows relevant experience, and it doesn't reflect on on what went well. What they could do better. Yeah, I completely agree. You're right. There is. There is no reflection whatsoever, is there? There is. There is an acknowledgement that things seem to have gone well. They presented some evidence, which is the excellent feedback that that is, I suppose something. And they've received this commendation by the medical school, which is again a form of output or evidence. But they haven't really told us why or what they're going to do differently or what? Or even what they think it went well. Um, what else have we got? Sarah said, Doesn't mention what they taught. Yeah, Again. Correct. They haven't said really what they've actually done. They said that they organized something. Um, but you're right. Not much detail. And what they've done a bit of a waffle during the height of the pandemic. That's fair. It's quite poetic. Flowery language, isn't it? It is. And it's like, Okay, but that's everyone like you could have just cut all of that, you know? Yeah. Um, yeah, yeah. It says it comes across really well, but I'm just wondering why students were contacting the person about the lack of experience. Do they take on a student role of some kind? You very sure I don't even think about that, to be fair? Yeah. Why did they do students go to this person? There's no contact provided for why this happened. Yeah, and side has said, Oh, I said. They said they've not included examples of feedback like quotes. This is kind of just like he said, she said, rather than any proof for measure. Yeah, I really agree. Actually, a quote in the context of what you're trying to sell here could be a really powerful tool. Um, actually, and I would maintain that and take that forward for some of the questions that talk about your single best achievements, Um, or when you're trying to show how superlatively good something is part of your evidence could very well be a quote and something. Something like that would be a very good device to use Alex. How many things, right? I completely agree with what we both said so far. I think when we compare here, they described to outline, I think I think most people agree. Describe needs a bit more description, as opposed to simply outlining and listening achievements. So here it's very cold answer listing what they've done. Well, it definitely needs a bit more of a reflection and kind of what they've learned from it as well. Yeah, and Charlene has said True doesn't discuss anything teaching outside of medicine, that's really good, and I suppose, something to remember before we move on. Is that not everything that you will be asked to do or asked to describe? In the course of your all of your white space questions, not everything will apply to everyone. And that's one of the great challenges, you know, if somebody asked earlier about how many experiences or achievements or things should I list, Well, if you've only been involved in one research project, then you've got to you've got to really make sure that you hammer home everything you've done, haven't you? In that one research project and every drop of value you can get out of it. Um, it may well be that someone in this case doesn't have any teaching experience outside medicine. I suspect they probably do. I think that most people do just passively you can be quite loose with what the definition of teaching means. You know, you could be teaching a musical instrument. You could be a dance instructor. You could be doing, um, teaching first aid or any you know, any number of things that you might do. Um, you Is it fair to say guys you can kind of interpret them to flexibly? Yeah. Definitely. Because you're still using your teaching experiences and skills. Doesn't matter what you're teaching. Yeah, I agree. Especially here. It's outside medicine as well. So they were literally open the book for you? Yeah, they're almost encouraging. You really to to do that, Aren't there to be a bit liberal? Okay, 11 final example of these, I think. And then we're moving on to an actual strategy. Okay, So this third question is, what steps would you take to optimize the benefit of a special Experience Foundation post from the start of your training, What challenges do you foresee with working both clinically and academically? This is two questions slammed into one, isn't it? But crucially, it uses the word you multiple times. This is you. Your what challenges do you foresee? What steps are you going to take? Optimize the benefit from your training? It's about what you're going to do. Um, so it's not the question here is not. What could a candidate do to maximize their experience of a specialized foundation program? It's What are you going to do with, you know, to to maximize the benefit of the special foundation program that you are applying for, not the general candidate you. So your answer should reflect the academic units that you are applying for. It's not a general question. It's What are you going to do if we give you the job? Um, consider how you will manage the clinical and academic commitments. Remembering what we said that you are 56, the doctor and 1/6 an academic, you are expected to be as good as your standard foundation colleagues, despite having less clinical time as Alex has already said, Um, and I think the best way to go about this is setting some smart goals, things that are achievable, measurable, and things that will actually work to help you maintain those standards. And this is something that you will actually be asked to do. You know, Akron, Alex. I'm sure you'll have had your meetings with your supervisors. Now, um, when you started working as doctors and you have to say, Look, boss, this is exactly how I'm going to meet what is expected of me, and you have to You have to write it. No, exactly like meeting my educational supervisor, which, you know you guys will do next year. Um, he So I had, like, some rough goals that I wanted and you completely rewrote. It was like they were scraping that we're doing smart girls because I want you to be like, Okay, in three months time you've achieved that you've achieved that you've done that, you need measurable output. And I was like, Okay, very prescriptive, if you will. And yes, with this question, what's the benefit that you would be seeking to gain as well? Very important. and that seems quite a lot to fit into, What, 200 words. Now, I think your limit is, um this is a really chunky question, and I've also, um, added my interpretation of it nearer to the end. Um, just so you guys keep, um, you know when you have the sliding or when you're reviewing this webinar afterwards again for your practice, you can see both mine and all these interpretation of this to help you out If you're stuck on this or if you've not included something. Yeah. So now these were going to go through this next section quite quickly, the next two or three slides. But I think this is the best form of concise advice that you can give to someone in the position that you guys are in. Um, so these are just some linguistic devices. Some helpful know monix to help you, right? So the camp structure is one that is mentioned in every business interview book that has ever been written. Well, since about 2000. Um, the camp structure, clinical, academic, managerial and personal. These are four large domains that exist within your career. So clinical is obvious. Were doctors Um, that is what we do. We treat, we diagnose, we manage academic again. I think most of us understand what that means. That's research that's continuing professional development. That's learning. That's education. Um, managerial is then more about leadership and organization. You know, you might say I want to alongside being a researcher, you know, say, uh, Aqua or Alex wants to be an academic urologist for reasons that are best known to themselves. And they decide to, you know, do all of this high profile NIH are funded work in the urology lab. But they might say, I want to head up my own lab and I want to do a big clinical trial that changes clinical practice. And that's much more managerial in nature, isn't it? Think about the skills that it takes to do something like that, Um, or you want to start a business or you want to be be the next clinic a leader and then personal is exactly what it sounds like. It's I want to be in this particular city because I really like the city or I want to be close to where my family is or I want a life plan a career, and I want to work less than full time. So it gives me more time to spend with my family or to work on another pursuit. Um, you know, outside my clinical job, there's lots of little avenues to everyone's lives, and I think it's okay to to be really honest and up front and say, this is what I want. And this is how I'm going to do it. Yeah, And I think personally what? What did I include in my personal stuff? Oh, yeah, I spoke. So excuse me, like we all have reasons for wanting to pursue whatever we want to pursue. Mr. Brain, I don't understand why you like the brain, but it is what it is. So in my obviously, I'm very pro and into men's health, and that was my personal interest. And that is when I used the camp. Um, I guess pneumonic when I expanded on what really draws me to urology, and that was probably my little personal link, because, remember, you're very tight forwards. And yes, we've looked at Nana's, um, question and it's about lab based projects. Yes, I'm sure they exist. And I'm sure Oxford and Cambridge, for example. I know they have them in my dictionary. The HPB, um, and urology. Actually, they're looking at cancer cells in the lab, so it's very much possible. And if anything, there's nothing preventing you from once you. Once you've entered your post, you can just even if it's not connected to your academic stream or program. But you're interested. Say, for example, you landed a breast academic job, but you're actually interested in giving me. There's nothing stopping you from approaching the gynie people and saying, Hey, I'm an academic x y Z Are there any opportunities for me to get involved in this? Nothing absolutely. And you having the academic title actually helps because they're like right? Okay, they already understand. It's It's that kind of like Golden Ticket, if you will. Yeah, and not to mention the dedicated time you have to do what you what you really want to do. So that's the real benefit of the SFP. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. My my first meeting with my academic supervisor was quite literally right. Ali, you've got four months. What do you want your job plan to be like? What do you want to do because you're being paid for four months. Basically, regardless of what you do, so what do you want to do? And I said, Well, I want to do one day a week working on this project one day a week, working on this different projects, maybe one day a week, teaching one day for, uh, skills development. So that's been attending lectures in things like statistics or data management at the university and then one day a week, flexible to to put into any of the projects as required. And they were like, Yeah, cool, that's your job now. So with the right supervisor, there really can be ultimate flexibility. This is something that Alex already spoke about briefly when it came to the academic pathway. But the reason why we put it here again is because it's absolutely vital for you. Um, for the first question I think is asking about your motivations and why you want to apply. Some of you that I've read have not mentioned your as all he said. You're short and long term clinical and academic goals. That is where you absolutely need to mention that you want to embark on the first step of the integrated academic clinical pathway because I foresee myself being this. This this because as we all three of us have said multiple times, you are 56, the clinician. So even if you don't want to do medicine right now, unfortunately, at least for two years you are contracted to do medicine. That's very important for you to understand, whilst you might want to be a C T f. And that is what you thought about in the past, like 2 to 3 years. Because you're interested in medicine, you need to stretch yourself and think about where you want to be in 5 to 10 years, because that is what will get you the cookies, the marks, if you will, even if it's not true exactly, even if it's not true. Genuinely like I remember when I was talking to one of my friends, like last year, he was on the fence of being interested in cardiology or respiratory, but he tried linking it to what his existing research was, and I think he did some amazing, like air pollution stuff, and I was like, What the heck? Use rest, go rest That is perfect for rest, and then Lincoln Cove it and boom, What the best motivational like answer ever. You need to use your strengths. Yeah, even if it's 100% true, just just, you know, extend the truth of it. Well, all I all I really mean is you're not beholden to what you say in your academic interview. You know, you might say, as I did in in my interview, I am. I'm going to do this. I'm going to 100% be an academic neurosurgeon in 10 years, And I still won't have CC TV, And I still won't have a consultant job because there aren't any consultant jobs. But that's kind of you're you're not backing yourself into a corner. You're just showing awareness that that this is the long term progression you're exploring your academic career. So if we move onto the next slide, this is one of the really helpful structures again that's going to help us. Uh, demonstrate are competencies, um, in terms of achieving our goals. So this, um, the reason we put these two things together, like I said, the star structure, which is what's on the right hand side. This is about demonstrating competencies. If someone asks you, tell me about the time you did X or describe an experience where you did X or tell me about the time when you worked in a team or any of these things. All of these things come into context or under the context of your long term goal, remember? So it's what I did in the past situation, task action result reflection. This is how I'm taking things forward. I'm going to use them to learn on the specialist Foundation program in post and how it forms part of my career. So, situation there is the thing that happened. I, you know, I was at a cardiac arrest or something. Task was, uh I had to put in an airway under pressure and action was I put in the airway. I did what the anesthetist told me. I put it incorrectly. Despite being under immense pressure, we had somebody that had arrested um the result might even be that that we lost the patient. You know, the patient, I maybe got better or or they didn't. But on reflection, I worked as part of a team in an incredibly high stress environment like the most high stress environment, really. And it showed me that I can do my clinical skills under pressure and communicate well as part of a team and follow orders. You know, there's so much you can take from even fairly simple experiences. So this structure is something that can be really helpful. And then as we move on, we've just got, uh, we've got three final dissections, which we're only going to spend about a minute on each of some of the the found the specialist foundation questions. And this is how we would encourage you to think about the questions. All of them involved reading them very carefully. But give one example of a non academic achievement and its significance. Your application for a special experience program. One example. It's right there in the question. This comes back to what we're saying about the difference between a listing and reflecting, asking for one thing, lots of description, lots of reflecting non academic as well. Interesting. A bit liberal again because you need to think about what you actually mean by academic. But this can be anything from sports, music hobby, a society that you're part of volunteering something not to do with your school work, basically, and its significance to your application. You are applying for a job. This is a job interview. Um, how does it fit into your your camp? Structured plans that we talked about before. And if we go to the next one, So this next one Sorry, everything is lagging a bit for me. But give one example in which you've demonstrated your leadership abilities. This example should be from your undergraduate or post graduate experience, if relevant, which I think is a really unhelpful clause to put in a question at some point in your life, give me an example. Uh, it should identify your specific role and contribution as a leader. Now, there's so much that we can dig into here. But again, one example. One, not more leadership abilities. You've got to think about what that actually means. So what does the leader do? It's about communication inspiring, delegating and coordinating. Really, a good leader shouldn't do anything if you think about what happens in something like a cardiac arrest, the person leading is the one stood at the end of the bed, the end of the bed, even commanding and delegating, identifying your specific role. And that is your cue to say in this situation, I did X y z not. We did not. The team did. What the team did is important, but it's asking about your role and your contribution as a leader. And again, you have to conceptualize and think about what a leader actually is and what the point of a good leader is. And then one final example that we have on the next slide. Yes, there we go. The transitions are taking like, 10 seconds on my screen. Um, please describe your experience in simulation training and the value of development of stimulation training for doctors. So your experience in simulation training, we will all at some point in our medical school education have some form of experience with simulation, remembering that it is not just being in a clinical skills lab and being surrounded by by monitors and screens and things, taking blood from a dummy is a simulated skill. Um, it's anything where you're practising, practising and rosky with your friends on a teddy bear or something. That is a simulation, um, since again being clear and it's describing your experience So what did you think about it? What went well, what went badly? What would you have done differently? Um, it talks about the value of simulation and the value of development of stimulation. So it's basically asking, why do we do it? What's the point? Why has it been adopted by many medical schools? And it asked specifically for doctors. It doesn't say high performance professions. So it could say vets, lawyers, pilots, Um, you know, captains of boats and situations where you constantly have to perform. Well, it says doctors. So why is the value of simulation different for doctors? So all I'm trying to get across is dissect the question and think about every single word, because every single word is important. It's there for a reason. So then I think we'll move on to some final tips. No, no, no. Remember, I wanted to talk about my about how I interpreted this question. Sorry, Doctor Burton. You shush. Um, but yes. So as well as all these tips I wanted to mention, um, that this question it was, you know, there's so much to unpack with this one. Um, but the way I interpreted this was How will you make the most out of your four month block or if you apply to more than eight months? Um, you know you're dedicated time off or to yourself. What would you do to hit the ground running as soon as you start? And this You know, some of the cliche answers that everybody will have will be you will be approaching your supervisors early. You'll be putting in grant applications early. You'll be looking at writing your protocol or gaining ethical approval. These are buzz words that you absolutely need to include, Um, because that's how that's what they're looking for in the answer and then in terms of challenges, do not bashful clinicians and don't bash academics. I've read a couple of examples where I think somebody said that they that they believed that doctors who did research we're better doctors and do not ever, you know, say that because that's clearly not true. The best clinicians I know are full time clinicians. Yes, they might. Obviously they have to no recent evidence, um, evidence based trials. But that's not necessarily the case. And if anything, I am very much aware that some researchers are actually less clinically competent, so make sure you don't mention that here. You need to holistically mention that you're just getting less time, but you're going to make the most of it by staying on top of your horse portfolio, meeting your educational and academic supervisor just these buzz words that you need to think about as you are one block down from your usual and again these slides. The recording will be available for you to watch afterwards, just while you're perfect in your, um, academic questions. And yes, I think before we go into our Q and A double, check your white space question requirements based on your academic unit of applications, and this is actually happening in real time. Be cautious of committing any mandatory questions. Um, because some deliveries academic units might say, Don't you don't need this when in actuality, it's because Oriole is already covering for the mandatory questions, so you don't exactly no, you know, because your E. L is saying and you can feel is saying this is absolutely mandatory for all, no matter what you're doing, you know? So just be cautious, and if anything, reach out to the unit of application and just get clarification as soon as possible because I know that's what really Did he literally just reach out to Provence, who is the lead for the academic unit in Newcastle, who was also his supervisor? Not broken at all, by the way, Any way, Um, but yeah, just reaching out to whoever is in charge and just clarifying That's the most important thing. Yeah, they're they're there to support you. The the point of all of these processes is not to eliminate candidates and not to not to cut people down. The point is, they want the best candidates. And in order to get the best candidates, they have to give everyone the opportunity to be the best version of themselves that they can be and then choose from all of those people because that's the best way to hire people. Um, and I think that brings us in to a Q and I Yes, and whilst we before we go into the Q and a. Please, please, please, could you fill out a feedback for us? Thank you so much for attending, but we're very, very keen, as this is a workshop for us to answer any questions that you may have. It doesn't necessarily have to be about what space can be. Anything to do with the S A. P or application itself. But please, please do feedback. Hi. Sorry. If this has already been covered from Ibrahim, do you have any pointers on how to approach the question? Please explain the rationale for your choice of programs, Alex. Maybe it's worth us just maybe discussing how we ended up with our programs. Like what? What factors that we consider. So, you know. And if we go back to the the camp structure, So for me, clinically, I want to do urology. So for me was looking at the list of London SFP jobs. Only three programs have the urology job so that it was 443 or four. Academic. I want to do academic urology, But in London there's no academic urology program. So I looked at you know what? What's the closest thing I can do to match my research interests? And for me, that's a nuclear medicine radiology. And if I can focus that towards a urological sign, that's a win win situation in terms of management, you know, I don't think there's any factor for me there really anything that anything that's quite flexible here allows you to do really anything you want. If it's teaching medical students, et cetera, and personal well, I live in London trained at UCL. Um, staying locally was great benefit to me. So for me, that's ultimately how I filtered out and ended up with the job I really wanted to apply for. Yeah, And if I go next, um, I'm you know, I went for the same scenery that Alex did because I thought that my portfolio was stronger in terms of what they were looking for. Like, you know, like publications, etcetera, etcetera. Um, that was when my that's where my strengths were. Um, But for me, yes, research is very, very important. But I know that I'm going to continue on and for just the purpose of everyone in this viewership, Um, I work very closely with Alex on tons of prostate and urology stuff, so I didn't have any concerns in that department, I guess because I still have the affiliation with U. C L. Um, but my priority was personal. It was being close to home and being close to my dad and my brothers. That is the main reason why I want to do men's health. And that was my personal. So for me in the camp structure, Pee was probably the overriding structure, and that that's what really hit at home. For me, though, this was my second choice priority. I'm very happy with how it ended up, because I'm now only 10 minutes away from home. And this is exactly what I wanted. Because now I have to academic box. I can potentially have urology, and I'm still continue with my research and yeah, I'm going to go last. And I'm just conscious that questions are building up, actually, that while we've been talking, which is which is great. Um, so I am in in a slightly unusual academic, you know, actually, where? So the northern Diener e is the only Diener e that gives you two academic blocks. And so that that means you get four months in F one and four months in F two, uh, which is, which is a lot, you know, that's that's a third of your time in the foundation program. And the reason why I chose that initially was I want to do neurosurgery primarily and wanted to do that at the time. And as everybody knows, that is a specialty that is very competitive and requires lots in the way of output and experience. And I thought, Well, naturally, if I have double the time, I should be able to do double the things in theory and and in practice, that's actually worked, but not in the way that I expected it to because I ended up working with Professor Vance's that was said he was a medical education professor. Doesn't really have anything to do with neurosurgery. She doesn't want me to be a neurosurgeon. Um, it's kind of neither do I just stay same just And I think nobody does it for yourself, just saying, um And so I've ended up doing one project in this area like medical education research and developed loads of new skills and qualitative methods that I wouldn't have had otherwise. And this year I'm doing a completely different projects in pediatric neuropsychology, which is much more closely aligned with that specialty. So, um, things are flexible. Things can work out not necessarily in the way that you think, but I'll, uh I think we should get to these questions and I'll hand over to So the guy. Yeah. So, um, well, I'll come back to Abraham about that, but yeah, all about camp and link it back to your sfp. That's what I would say. Um, do do a bit of both. You lose nothing, um, thoughts on pros and cons of programs with a four month academic block versus, you know, half a day, a week or a day every two weeks. Yeah, I think for this, really, it's really up to you. It's What do you want to do during your academic block? Do you want to do research? Do you just want to do loads of locum shifts? It's really up to you. It's flexible, but ultimately it's What do you want to do? So if you want to sit down and contribute to research Project a clinical trial that you know goes on for years, then having one day a week dedicated to contribute to a trial in this example is beneficial. If you only had four months block to contribute to clinical trial, you're not going to contribute very much outside that, because clinical work is so tiring. On the other hand, if it's just a straight four months block and you've got a smaller projects, maybe it's a systematic review. You are aiming for the lancets or you want to do a few small projects, you know, sitting down for four months straight, having lots of days to write the manuscript to get the blood work done in one go. It's extremely beneficial that you wouldn't really be able to do one day a week to, you know, screen rights data analyzed. You kind of lose interest, get tired very easily and may not be as efficient, really no. And the that systematic review idea is going to be taken. Sorry if you if you sat on it for two years, somebody else has already done it. Yeah, I I personally really got on well with my four month block because I don't know how you guys are watching this, but I'm definitely one of those people that works at all hours as and when you get a you get like a motivation to, to write and and actually my supervisor works in exactly that same way, so it's worked really, quite well, but it's why, you'll you'll notice that you get professors, consultants and and academics replying to your emails that like two in the morning, it's because lots of people actually work this way, and that stop and start approach works really well for me. But as as the guys have said, it's a very personal thing and you have to really think about what you want to achieve. Yeah, agreed. Um, Rohan has asked High. Rohan has asked apologies if he's missed this earlier. If you're applying to multiple streams, how do you tailor the career goal question so I can go, Um, first with this? So my goals are actually quite similar to Ali. It's like I'm talking to my role models right now as my speakers because Ali is very heavily into medical education research, and obviously Alex is very interested in urology research. So in my section I expanded on how I wanted to be a medical educator but also an academic urologist. And that's how I pretty much combined the two and you lose nothing for being truthful. As always said at the beginning, you just have to be honest. There is no harm in you showing that you want to be both an educational list and also a clinician? Yeah. Um, I think it's bizarre, isn't it, that it's in our job description as doctors that we actually have to be scholars, scientists, educational lists? And actually, relatively few are like a good at, you know, good at any of those things, like let alone, um well, most doctors are good doctors. That's not what I mean to say. But given that we are supposed to teach the next generation, you know, we are given relatively little training on how to do that and the same with with being leaders and driving the profession forward. And I'm just going to come to the next question, which is about I'm not managed to complete a research project. But I've managed to complete quality improvement project. Am I a disadvantage? No, really, Absolutely not. I will defer to the guys here, but my my advice on that front would be when you're when you're thinking about answering these questions, you are not being scored for the content of what you write, as in as in what you have actually done. You're not really being scored on those things. It's about reflecting on what you've done and what you learn from it and what you're going to take forward. Because remember that like the white space, questions have to factor in a huge range of possible answers. Some people will have done a systematic review. Some people will have done a small audit, but close the loop. Some people will have driven some change within their university. We're we're not. We're not trying to, like, define the value of these different things. It's about it's about your experience and how you how you reflect on it is, is what I would say and I would actually like to chip in. And, um, this is kind of like, um if this was black market advice, I guess, um, it could be considered that. But last year there were people who intentionally checked. The box is I'm not sure if you guys can do that for all the research streams for Sorry, all streams. So they ticked all research, management and leadership, management and education because then they unlocked more answers, and then they got to talk about themselves because if the academic units didn't actually offer leadership, and they only offered research. Sorry. You have more white space questions that you kind of have to mark because that's more information on you. Uh, but again, I'm not sure if you can do that, but that's just if you can maybe maybe sneak that in, um, Then take a couple more minutes of questions and then wrap things up. Yeah, uh, so we've answered that as most, only four months. How do you? Yeah, get the ground running. And as Alex has already answered, there's nothing stopping you from already. You know, literally. If you get if you get the post boom, reach out to your supervisor, get have the things in rolling in motion. Ali, this is kind of more directed for you. Nelly has asked for Northern. They state that applicants are to complete all white space questions. You should indicate your preferred theme in your response. How should I interpret this? Am I still outlined my rationale? Or does this mean that the first question outlining your reasons for applying effectively provides the rationale? Uh, unless unless I'm missing something. Million. What? You're asking those two things are kind of the same in that the question is, remember, it's it's It's your reasons for applying for the Specialist Foundation program in the regions that you've chosen to apply right? It's what I was saying before it's it's not saying it's not saying describe why you think a candidate would apply in the abstract sense to the Specialist Foundation program. It is. Why are you applying? And it needs to be specific to what you want. And, uh, as you said, they they encourage you to take all three. But yeah, I think you've answered the question, Really. Which is to say, I am applying for the Specialist Foundation program, and my my preferred theme is You could be as black and white is that my preferred theme is vascular surgery research or something, or research in general? Because I want X y Z. This feeds into my long term career plan to do X Y Z and the Specialist Foundation program is good for me because X Y Z like it's you can be pretty black and white about it. Um, in that sense, yeah, and I think you just answer it. Um, there's no shame you can answer it at the beginning like and explain why, um, you want to do research more why you want to do more and for the northern denarii. I think it's literally because, um wants to read all of your answers. That's why she's forcing you to do all of the, you know, tick boxes. That's my impression because she wants to know more about the potential applicants that she gets to interview. And you only get to do that by making sure all the boxes are perfect. Yeah, or something that I think is really important. It comes back to thinking about how they score these things. Remember that just because you say I want a track that has a vascular surgery in it and that's why I'm applying for it, and that doesn't mean that you will get a track that has vascular surgery in it. You're going to be ranked against everyone else in the Diener E and you may be offered a job. It's that, you know, you might rank 20 jobs and you get your number 20 which you want to be a surgeon. But it has GP psychiatry, Pedes. And maybe it has to psychiatry box. Um, so this is it comes back to what I was saying again before about your you're not scored or assigned a job based on the specific things you say it's being used to generate a number which is then going to be used to compare your number to lots of other people's numbers. It's, uh you've got to be reduced to a single data point before they can then give you the job, so you may as well be honest because they're not going to use the content of your answer to give you that job. Yeah, and, um, what's it called? Pierre has asked for the question about the challenges you oversee working both clinically and academically. Would it be okay to mention you plan on taking locum shifts to ensure you know, you don't the skill? Essentially, I mean, I I like that, but it's more. It makes you sound maybe not mention locum because that makes you sound. That could be interpreters. Okay, you want money, which you know, getting like 14 lbs an hour, but a great, potentially controversial area to mention that I think there are other ways to mention that you like to maintain your clinical skills. Can you run clinical skills teaching sessions for medical students. Can you do bedside teaching? Can you go on courses? Have you researched ordinary? Do they fund courses for you to go on a TLS? Anything like that. So there are other ways to do it before just pick the best one. Um, and the one that you know works the best, I would say. Yeah, practically. I found in my F one year that the academic block did give me time to locum like that is a benefit of working academically because you're not so tired in the evening that you don't want to do anything else, but I I think I agree with what Alex has just said there. Is that it? That's a bit of practical wisdom. Probably to make the most of rather than making it part of your application is probably the best advice. Yeah, and I got a d m from someone. Ali. Um, and it's from natural. She's asking how is your method in Northern, like, what does the four month period entail? Yeah, I'll keep it brief. Assuming that things haven't changed. There is one medicine job in Northern, which is quite hotly contested. Um, the thing that you have to remember is that it is, uh, it's Medicaid research because Diovan's, who runs the northern SFP, is a is a professor of med. So she's into its medical education research, not medical education delivery, as in teaching medical students. Um, if you if you want to teach medical students and do simulation and things that you absolutely can. I was able to do that, but I had to organize that myself that had that had nothing to do with the fact that I was a med sfp doctor. Um, my research is in medical education. But be aware that there is a big difference between medical education, delivery and medical education research, and they're not the same thing, and some people will be interested in both. But most people probably aren't. I think when most people say Medicaid, they think delivery, they think teaching. Um, so just before, before you apply for it, I would just do a bit of reading and make sure you're clear on the difference. Yeah, yeah, I think we should probably begin to wrap up here, and it's nearly 99 PM Um, I think we should maybe end on one piece of advice from Ocwen Only what would be your ultimate one piece of advice if you had to give to everyone If you're not thinking about it and you came here, you know, to really decide, are you going to go for a while? You're not. You should go for it. 100%. You lose nothing. Yeah, I agree. I'm going to sneak into things, but in one sentence, so it still counts, which is that everyone should apply for the SFP whether or not they want it, because it's a free chance to get a really specific job you want. And secondly, if you don't get it, don't worry about it because it changes nothing about your career and you will still be able to do all of the same stuff anyway, Whether you're an SFP doctor or you're a A standard foundation doctor, um, it makes no difference. It's just a nice thing to have if you're lucky and can get it. But it doesn't make or break anything about your future career. My one line of advice would be the devil's in the details. Uh, if you're unsure if something is going to come for the portfolio. Check the documentation. It's all listed there. If you're unsure about anything, really look into it. And I think the second thing for me would be. If you don't mention it, it doesn't count Just because you submit a white space question. Don't assume it's your interviews. Will read it. The interview is, could be completely separate to whoever is reviewed your white space question. So because you've done an MD PhD you mentioned in the white space question, don't assume the interview in front of your nose about it. There's a story about a friend I heard a few years back, and he's got an MD. PhD. Put it down in the white space questions I forgot to mention in the interview. Um and yeah, the exams didn't think anything about it. So don't assume anything. And the devil's in the detail. That's what I would say. He said, Oh, he or she is a double doctor. Oh, that's awful. Thank you, everybody. So much for coming. Um, there'll be one of these a week for the next, however many weeks, um, at the same time, same platform, uh, will will be advertising every week. Please fill out the feedback for me. If you haven't done already, it really helps us tune the next one so we can make each one better. Um, And again, if there is anything you'd like to see, please let us know. Leave it in the feedback. And otherwise we will see you all next week. Demand on exactly. Bye bye.